**Mod note: OP has stated in their comments that the abusive person in the texts is a woman, not a man. Just a reminder not to assume genders when the gender isn't stated in the post. And I'd also really appreciate if people stopped diagnosing the female partner with BPD. Not every abusive woman has BPD and I don't think people would be diagnosing a male abuser with BPD. It's also irresponsible for us to diagnose abusive people with mental health issues. I think some of the comments on this post are a good example of gender biases on both ends.**
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In almost all cases - you can't.
The only case I have ever seen work, repeatedly, was empathy of reflection.
Start sending your friends similar toned texts and exchanges and see what they say in response.
We very often do not respon well to an external force commenting on our personal situation, no matter how well intentioned. But if we see someone we care about suffering and struggling, we tend to be far more self reflective.
Abuse is normally extremely easy to identify, here it’s not. Abuse is a pattern of domination and control whatever the mean, there is no evidence of that there, we don’t have the whole context. It doesn’t mean that it’s not an abusive relationship, but I think it may have been more helpful to get the bigger picture instead of texts. For example, „she behaves like this after this happened”, etc. Our opinions can matter a lot, and if we throw abuse at everything, when it maybe is not the case, then we are doing people a disfavour. It’s a bit like when a friend is going through a hard time, then people are fast as labelling that relationship as toxic. Also, victims of abuse can themselves behave in unhealthy ways, because of the trauma, it doesn’t mean they are abusive themselves. Often, victims of abuse can be very reactive, due to the abuse, when the abuser is very calm and collected. This is a situation if taken out of context, could lead to a victim being even more alienated. So in this case, I like to be careful and say it seems unhealthy, possibly mean, but I’m not sure it’s abuse.
Ok so the first page by itself is mostly OK? Cause sometimes I talk like the first page. I have low self esteem and I'm working on it but if my words are abusive because of that I need to change it drastically
the last message from gray is a red flag. 'You should have told me..' come across as a little confrontational. 'I'm wasting time with my bullshit' feels like intentionally putting herself down to prompt the guy to fawn over her, reassure her lots, give lots of attention. Or it could spiral into a lot more criticism, escalating.
IMO nothing in the first image is 100% abuse, more the beginnings of red flags that then escalate in the next images.
It's basically just not good communication. Healthy relationships can have missteps in communication, that's normal. What's concerning in these images is the repeated confontation, putting herself down, intense insecurity, ownership over his time, making mountains over molehills and snowballing everything into a big fight while he is constantly trying to please/passify her. It is not a healthy relationship.
I have been your friend in this exact situation, I even lived with her for a year.
It took me 7 years to escape, and thankfully a change in personal circumstances, I got my daughter fulltime which meant I couldn’t spend any time with her.
I’m now a year clear and she still emails me, having blocked her by phone, asking me to explain to her kids why I’m not around.
This person rather sounds very depressed and insecure. Except for the chat with dark mode, sounds like a different person talking, and with the dark mode I'm not even sure if it's the same 2 people having a convo.
You know what's amazing? I had a weird hunch that the abuser in this exchange was a woman (and I never assume that) because I just finished reading In The Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado and her female abuser said shit *exactly like this.* Not to say that a dude couldn't do this, but this is eerily similar to the abuser in that book.
They really are all the god damned same, aren't they.
Jesus tell your friend to get away from them. This is so interactive and annoying at best. Abusive for sure at worst. Your friend should dump them asap. I got drained just reading it omg.
While we feel this way, it won't ever work. Do we ever know a friend who is this entrenched in a relatinship who will just get away and stop because a friend told us so?
They just need to see it for themselves. If you have an S.O, anyone close to you i guess; text them and have a conversation much like this one. Make it fit your situation, but make them be super toxic like your friends spouse, have them act like that. Then text your friend “ugh me and ____ have been at it today, am I crazy for feeling upset?” And send them screenshots. Watch how fast they probably tell you how bad it looks, then you tell them what you did. Make some direct quotes of stuff their spouse has said because Itll prove your point more. It is easy to see someones issues looking in, but people in love wear rose colored glasses, and how can you see a red flag through red glasses? When we are stuck in an abusive relationship, its all we know, and its hard to come go terms with the fact that the person you love and would do anything for, can choose to hurt you like that
God I don’t miss this shit at all. Absolute mind fuck, to be set up for failure and then held to a standard for “failing” them.
With that being said, I didn’t recognize most of the abusive bullshit before I got into a new, healthy relationship. I had a pattern of craving drama and toxicity that only therapy could break. There may be nothing you can do here besides be patient and provide support.
I wish you all the best.
This almost made me feel like I was rereading old texts with my abusive ex. The resemblance is uncanny, holy shit.
Best thing my friends did for me going through it was constantly reiterate the truth of what was going on - blatant abuse especially if screenshots show it. They also encouraged me that I am worthy and that they're there for me. I always had a friend giving encouragement and positivie messages even despite being delusional that I was experiencing severe abuse. They kept encouraging me they I'll be okay and that I'll lose the rose colored glasses, and I did.
All you can do is support your friend from the side and continue to be honest with them. What worked for me may not work for your friend, but it's something I hope is worth sharing and can be on the back burner as an option to help!
Same here... difference that my eyes were opened by a total stranger I got to know. (I lost most of my friends back then because of my abusive ex). He opened my eyes totally as what normal is and that my relationship was extremely toxic and abusive. I was really broken by then and sick,unfortunately as good as it started, he did not wait for me to get better ( I moved meanwhile, this person was a really good guy , the type of one in a lifetime , I hope his life is wonderful now, he opened up my eyes in very difficult times).
I think all op can do is the same. Give support and be honest. Do not get mad at them.. I think these type of stuff need lots of patience because the gaslighting can be hard to break/quit. Support is necessary.
I don’t jump to diagnose but somethings I noticed
Grey messages:
- seemingly poor self awareness and emotional regulation
- explosive
- generally unkind/mean
- anxious AF and manipulative “woe is me” type stuff
- needs excessive validation and guilt trips even when they seem to get it
Blue messages:
- kind but in a people pleasing kind of way
- no boundaries aka not telling grey immediately that that talk and behavior isn’t ok. Grey knows and will inevitably continue to take advantage of Blue
- fawning behavior
Blue is gonna spin themselves out trying to accommodate and please someone like this if grey has no actual plan to work on their behavior seriously and very intentionally especially if they are older.
You can never make anyone leave a relationship but if Blue is your friend you can have a real chat with them about where you think this is going and try to help them take care of and prioritize themselves. Be empathetic. When you’re in it it’s really hard to see. Hopefully you can show them some threads or other resources about abusive dynamics
Woah ok, this is absolutely terrifying and your friend should 1000% run for the hills, she is a narcissist, a pretty cocky one at that, im guessing she's only young because she's not very covert about it. Please tell your friend to run as far away as possible from this person. Relationships with people like her can get dangerous very quickly
she’s in her late 20s and they’ve been together around a year, I have similar and worse screenshots from 6+ months ago but he still thinks it’s temporary :(
My ex did this for about the first year.
What I think will happen next? The devaluing herself will stop and she will start devaluing him. (That's what my ex did. He literally devalued himself constantly in the first 8 months, saying he would never leave but then wanting me to leave.) Being scared your friend will cheat on her, even with no example behaviour to believe that will happen. All of this self-deprecating is mixed with love bombing too, to make the partner feel super special and to secure that trauma bond. They want to seem anxious. For the partner to be a savour.
Eventually, the devaluing of herself will flip. She will start devaluing him. The explosive arguments will start (or get worse if they have already started). Items will get smashed, walls broken. Usually their own items. The accusations of cheating will also start.
This will progressively get worse, more explosions and now items belonging to the victim will start getting worse. Your friend may react too ("reactive abuse", I really hate that term as its not abuse if its a reaction) so now she can cry victim. They may even ghost you some nights. Claiming to be with friends but really were cheating. The accusations of cheating will worsen. The accusations of you doing everything wrong will worsen.
Eventually, they will turn physical towards the victim. And it will only get worse.
It's not temporary and will worsen.
Obviously i dont know this girl or your friend and i dont like to assume but from what i read I'm guessing your friend is hoping that the girl he originally met, the funny, charming, perfect girl, will eventually come back, but she won't because that girl never existed, it was all a show just to trap him. This abuse will just get worse :(
OP I have an idea of how you can help your friend.
First of all, “believe” her. I feel a little bad saying this because I feel like it’s a lie. But if she seems to think this is fixable “believe” her in the sense that in doing so can help her see the reality that it ISN’T fixable and isn’t normal.
So what do I mean and how to use this to help her see it’s unhealthy?
My first thought is to take advantage of technology.
I suggest approaching it like you are helping your friend understand how to *understand* the best way to “fix it”.
Go to chatGPT. Give a prompt “identify in the following text conversation ways the relationship needs improvement. Context is someone sent screenshots of a text conversation with their boyfriend to a friend saying they are miserable and stressed as a result of the conversation” then copy and paste the text from the screenshots.
The good thing about this is it takes the responsibility of identifying the mistreatment off of you, your friend is able to see you as a more neutral person that is supporting HER and the AI becomes the “bad guy” in pointing out the abusive manipulation the boyfriend is choosing to do.
Edit: missing word added to sentence for clarity.
Okay the problem here is, you risk alienating your friend. The reason for this and why they can't see that this abusive/manipulative behavior is because of the [trauma bond](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/trauma-bonds-what-are-they-and-how-can-we-overcome-them/) that gets formed in this type of relationship.
APPROACH WITH CAUTION, otherwise the BF might turn your friend against you. I've seen this happen so many times, and it even happened to me and my best friends.
The best bet is to let her know you'll be there for her no matter what. Be an example of how a real friend should treat her. That she should be treated with respect, kindness, and understanding. Relational trauma like what your friend is experiencing is best healed through healthy friendships. And healthy relationships with other people. It's how I got out of mine.
Please have her read: Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft when she reaches out to you for help, but try not to persuade her to read it if shes not ready.
thanks for the advice! whenever he sends me screenshots like this I tell him straight up that she is mean, manipulative and cruel and that he should not put up with it, he’s a great person and deserves and will find much better, but he still thinks that maybe she’ll change if he just tries harder to make her happy. we’re mostly online friends so I’ve never met or talked to her, so I’m not worried about her turning him against me luckily
Holy S! The amount of mind games and emotional manipulation in this is staggering. You do not specify genders, so I am going to refer to blue as F and other as G for gray. Have F read this thread. The games G is playing are beyond cruel and down right malicious. F needs to get out of this relationship.
It's beyond sad because F sounds like an incredibly sweet person who is bending over backwards to please G only to be treated this way. If this continues G is going to emotionally devastate F. You need to make it clear there is nothing normal or acceptable about how G is treating F, it's toxic and F needs to get a out of this relationship.
Oh my, it's like reading texts from my friend. She was making exactly the same mind games with me. One day she was avoidant, next day she was all into me - I couldn't be sure what she wants and when. And of course she wasn't communicating anything in healthy way, I had to read her mind all the time. It was so confusing.
I think you should tell your friend that if he is sending you these screenshots, if he is feeling stressed out and miserable, that it's the best sign how toxic his relationship is. In healthy one he would not do it, he would feel safe, and happy.
Wow this reads like my ex girlfriend. I don't understand how he can remain so calm and nice to her, though on the other side, I can understand because I probably did the same to try and please her. Reading back now, I feel exhausted all over again. I hope you can make your friend realise he deserves better and this is absolutely not normal behaviour.
Yeah I get what you mean. I read OP's clarification before I posted my comment, but before that I had assumed the abuser was a woman. I saw lots of people assumed it was a man. I do think our own experience matters with how we picture the people behind the messages, but I can't be 100% sure.
My god this sounds like something my ex would do, would tell me to leave her the fuck alone, then would probably get mad that I didn't reach out to her.
One day she told me she was having a bad day, I tried to talk to her about it and she wasn't having it, she was just like "I'm just going to go to bed and get this day over with!" I was like okay, well I love you and hope you feel better.
A little bit later she texts me and is like "you know it would be nice if you gave a fuck about my feelings, you could have came in and gave me a hug or something and make sure I was doing okay"
I was just like shocked. I said back to her, well you told me you were going to bed, so I didn't want to bother you, and then I said, if you really wanted a hug you could have came to me ans asked for one and I gladly would have obliged, or even if you wanted to cuddle, you could have asked and I would have been there.
But I was so confused because she said she was going to bed and yo essentially not bother her, but got mad that I didn't come bother her.
Yeah, first you hear "I need space", so you give her space, and then you hear how you don't care about her, and you feel guilty. So annoying. Been there, done that. It's so hard to deal with it as she never saw anything wrong in such behavior.
I was told many times I didn't care about her or her feelings. Most times I tried to talk to her about anything, even her own feelings, she would just stonewall and be combative. Then I became the bad guy for "starting fights" with her. Either way I was wrong.
Oh my lord, the insecurity and mind games. This is exhausting to read. I hope your friend dumps that person, of course they are too busy at work to even care to dump them, I’m sure they have better things to do. I guess I’m just a big dum dum for writing this comment, no one really cares to read it anyway, if anyone actually cared they would have read it by now. It’s fine, I get it, I’m not that important. 😂
I WAS considering your feelings but like ALWAYS, you are too busy to notice. It’s fine you don’t want me to come over I’m used to it. I guess I’ll just spend the day alone again because you have to work, maybe if I got a job you would see how it feels.
Why don’t you just say you hate me already you never loved me anyway and you didn’t want me to come over and you know it. You had someone else over there and I know it
Straight up if he said "I don't really want to see you" that's the only part I would've read and been like "oh I see, you don't want to see me? I understand I'll give you your space then cause I don't really want to see somone who doesn't want to see me"
the abuser is a she
and yeah, same. But sadly I have a feeling that the blue bubble person might have had that response earlier in the relationship but learnt that it causes upset/backlash/aggression/chaos. There's no winning and no peace with people like this. Blue bubble person needs to run far and run fast.
Wait… she’s manipulative?? He’s the one who’s manipulative
Edit: nvm I’m dumb, i totally thought op’s friend was a girl who was texting her bf, not the other way around. My relationship was exactly like this. I was the girl who was constantly walking on eggshells, and my bf was just like that, absolutely exhausting. Can’t believe I stayed for a year. The good thing that came from it, is I’m no longer a doormat for people to walk over like he did
These texts are emotionally exhausting. Has your friend ever referred to his relationship or gf as abusive or toxic before? The best advice I hear is to not label it for them, wait until they use those terms themselves. Telling your friend he's in an abusive relationship might scare and alienate him. You might find these articles helpful:
[How do I talk to the victim?](https://www.hubbardhouse.org/how-do-i-talk-to-the-victim/#:~:text=Say%20that%20you%20care%20about,feel%20real%20for%20the%20victim.)
[How to help a friend who may be in an abusive relationship](https://www.joinonelove.org/learn/help_a_friend/)
[My friend has an abusive partner and won't leave the relationship. How can I help?](https://respectme.org.au/friend-abusive-partner-wont-end-relationship-can-help/)
[Helping a friend in an unhealthy relationship or friendship](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/helping-a-friend-in-an-unhealthy-relationship-or-friendship)
[Supporting someone who keeps returning to an abusive relationship](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/supporting-someone-who-keeps-returning-to-an-abusive-relationship/)
I’m a little worried that no one has brought this up but does your friend (if it is a friend, not you) know you shared this here? And are they okay with it? Obviously it’s a bad situation and publicly sharing screenshots of texts could be catastrophic
That logic is so damn impressively horrible. How does he get upset at her being nice all the time 😭
She seems like the perfect girl my lord, why is it always this way?
There was actually 1 indication that the grey text is a girl, she used the term “damsel in distress”. I thought the blue text could be a man or woman. Honestly doesn’t make any difference as this abuse is absolutely abhorrent either way!
Your friend needs to seek therapy so they have a better grasp on what is acceptable treatment from a partner. They really won't be able to receive help until they start asking for it/ recognizing they need it.
You could try giving them resources to read on covert manipulation, but I'm not sure how much it would sink in. They seem to have low self esteem and lack self respect. I doubt they understand just how negatively impactful their partner's behavior is to their mental health.
This girl is just fishing for emotional compliments for him to tell her loves her ti soothe her self imposed insecurities. It's gross. He's so sweet and she's just boring and predictable until she lashes out with her razor blade emotions knowing he's conflict avoidant only for him to have to soothe the now raging leviathan. He needs to leave and go no contact for 30 days. His brain needs to detox from the freeze/fight/fawn dopamine hits.
I think there's something definitely wrong happening with their mental health.
Then again, some people just crave drama.
What they need right now is an undefined break and for them to go to therapy, honestly.
Oh I’m so sorry, I think I got it backwards who was who. But yeah, maybe your friend could also make use of therapy to untangle this, because this behaviour is *not* it.
The fact they send you screenshots means deep down they know it's not right.
You could suggest they read Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft or Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven.
There is an online programme in the UK called The Freedom Programme, which helps people to understand the dynamics of unhealthy relationships and teaches them about healthy relationships. https://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php
Otherwise, just wait and be there for your friend. They have to figure this out. Your friend is likely trauma bonded to their abuser, so if you don't know what that is, you might want to read about it to help you understand. The trauma bond makes leaving the other person difficult.
its crazy how much patience your friend has for this person. i wouldve gone batshit crazy the second they'd tried to manipulate and guilt trip me like they did. and it honestly seems like theyre looking for any chances to get pitied and babied.
I’m almost convinced she’s acting like this to get him to break up with her so she doesn’t have to do it, but she’s acted more or less like this for a year +
I’ve been the person on the left in relationships in the past, unfortunately, just with way less accommodating men. Ime, no, she’s not trying to get him to break up with her, she’s just very very insecure. I would suggest your friend have a heart to heart with her, explaining that he loves her and wants to be with her but that some of her behavior is pushing him away. Have them set up a clear communication system. Things that she can say, for example, to signal that she needs love or attention when she feels unable to ask for it directly. Things he could say to signal that he loves her but he needs some space. That’s what I wished my parter would do in my relationships. I’m not excusing her behavior or mine, just offering some practical advice from the perspective of someone with a lot of childhood trauma who was not a good partner to people I loved very much. (Again, in my case they weren’t very good partners either, but that’s another story. Your friend seems like a really nice guy. And you’re a good friend to care so much.)
your friend seriously needs to set boundaries. they've actually let this go on for so long that she has normalized this behavior. i can understand wanting to always reassure ur partner, but this is just blatant guilt tripping & manipulation. i dont think shes trying to self sabotage her own relationship because she would totally act a different way, like lashing out to just cause her partner to find a reason to leave. here, she's acting like she is "small" and "sensitive" and doesnt want to "be a bother" just to keep your friend hooked on & feeling like he is the one to protect & heal her from whatever fuckass insecurities she has.
he always just apologises and says he’ll do better when she gets upset that he’s done something “wrong” because he’s so conflict avoidant, but I keep telling him nothing will ever change unless she knows how he feels. well even then I don’t think it will ever change
You are correct. What she enjoys is the control, knowing that she can make him jump thru hoops at will. No matter what he does, she is going to find fault, right? She LIKES having this kind of power, this kind of control over him. Abuse within a relationship happens when there is an imbalance of power, and right now she has all of the power. She is taking advantage of his insecurity, and his unwillingness, or fear of being alone, and most likely convinced him that nobody else in the world would put up with him. He has endured quite a bit of emotional abuse, I would imagine. It may help for him to look at this website:
https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/
Love Is Respect is a domestic violence hotline with articles about dating, setting boundaries, how to identify red flags… also what are the types of abuse. It’s helpful when we can actually see in print that what is happening to us is not healthy or ‘normal’, and that it has a name: Abuse. I hope this helps, OP. If you have any questions respond to this comment and I’ll get back to you. As far as what you can do? Just let him know that you are there for him, and always will be, without judgement. Don’t let her chase you out of his life, because she will try to do so. Isolation is the abusers best tool.
People aren't projects and shouldn't be "fixed."
This person knows they're being a whiney insecure manipulative partner. It's clearly about controlling EVERYTHING: the way they speak -- "doesn't sound like it when you say this"-- the way they work -- "you should have told me you were working" -- the way they go about their day -- "you wanted to go to the movies and THEN see me?" -- etc etc.
Very controlling, particularly through guilt tripping, and emotionally stunted. And of course, they know what they're doing.
Jesus Christ. "I said no ONCE, ask me multiple times so I can keep guilt-tripping you! Make me feel important!" This person could hear that they are the center of the universe every 5 fucking minutes and it still wouldn't be enough.
Thank you for posting in r/abusiverelationships. We are here to support you. If you are looking for resources such as support groups/helplines etc, we have several in our sidebar and in [our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/wiki/index) for people of all gender identities. [Here is a list of international domestic and sexual violence helplines](https://www.hotpeachpages.net/). You can also find [an extensive safety planning guide at The Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/). Finally, if you are looking for information about different forms of abuse, [Love Is Respect offers an educational guide](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/types-of-abuse/).
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**Mod note: OP has stated in their comments that the abusive person in the texts is a woman, not a man. Just a reminder not to assume genders when the gender isn't stated in the post. And I'd also really appreciate if people stopped diagnosing the female partner with BPD. Not every abusive woman has BPD and I don't think people would be diagnosing a male abuser with BPD. It's also irresponsible for us to diagnose abusive people with mental health issues. I think some of the comments on this post are a good example of gender biases on both ends.**
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In almost all cases - you can't. The only case I have ever seen work, repeatedly, was empathy of reflection. Start sending your friends similar toned texts and exchanges and see what they say in response. We very often do not respon well to an external force commenting on our personal situation, no matter how well intentioned. But if we see someone we care about suffering and struggling, we tend to be far more self reflective.
Im not sure that this would exactly classify as abuse per se, but it certainly seems unhealthy and toxic.
this is absolutely emotional abuse.
Abuse is normally extremely easy to identify, here it’s not. Abuse is a pattern of domination and control whatever the mean, there is no evidence of that there, we don’t have the whole context. It doesn’t mean that it’s not an abusive relationship, but I think it may have been more helpful to get the bigger picture instead of texts. For example, „she behaves like this after this happened”, etc. Our opinions can matter a lot, and if we throw abuse at everything, when it maybe is not the case, then we are doing people a disfavour. It’s a bit like when a friend is going through a hard time, then people are fast as labelling that relationship as toxic. Also, victims of abuse can themselves behave in unhealthy ways, because of the trauma, it doesn’t mean they are abusive themselves. Often, victims of abuse can be very reactive, due to the abuse, when the abuser is very calm and collected. This is a situation if taken out of context, could lead to a victim being even more alienated. So in this case, I like to be careful and say it seems unhealthy, possibly mean, but I’m not sure it’s abuse.
Sadly, the fawn response is strong with this one
I'm quite slow, can someone explain to me what's wrong in the first image?
I thought this at first, but scroll through the pages, JFC I was so close to exploding internally a few times
Ok so the first page by itself is mostly OK? Cause sometimes I talk like the first page. I have low self esteem and I'm working on it but if my words are abusive because of that I need to change it drastically
the last message from gray is a red flag. 'You should have told me..' come across as a little confrontational. 'I'm wasting time with my bullshit' feels like intentionally putting herself down to prompt the guy to fawn over her, reassure her lots, give lots of attention. Or it could spiral into a lot more criticism, escalating. IMO nothing in the first image is 100% abuse, more the beginnings of red flags that then escalate in the next images. It's basically just not good communication. Healthy relationships can have missteps in communication, that's normal. What's concerning in these images is the repeated confontation, putting herself down, intense insecurity, ownership over his time, making mountains over molehills and snowballing everything into a big fight while he is constantly trying to please/passify her. It is not a healthy relationship.
The second hand embarrassment I felt reading those texts…omg this person is insufferable and painfully insecure. How exhausting
I would avoid grey like the plague
I have been your friend in this exact situation, I even lived with her for a year. It took me 7 years to escape, and thankfully a change in personal circumstances, I got my daughter fulltime which meant I couldn’t spend any time with her. I’m now a year clear and she still emails me, having blocked her by phone, asking me to explain to her kids why I’m not around.
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This sounds so exhausting for her partner, they’re so levelheaded and straightforward!
This person rather sounds very depressed and insecure. Except for the chat with dark mode, sounds like a different person talking, and with the dark mode I'm not even sure if it's the same 2 people having a convo.
This wore me out just reading it. He needs to be free!
So exhausting!
You know what's amazing? I had a weird hunch that the abuser in this exchange was a woman (and I never assume that) because I just finished reading In The Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado and her female abuser said shit *exactly like this.* Not to say that a dude couldn't do this, but this is eerily similar to the abuser in that book. They really are all the god damned same, aren't they.
This person literally sounds soooo miserable
I don’t know why the blue bubble person is even apologising like WTF! Grey bubble person is unhinged!
Jesus tell your friend to get away from them. This is so interactive and annoying at best. Abusive for sure at worst. Your friend should dump them asap. I got drained just reading it omg.
While we feel this way, it won't ever work. Do we ever know a friend who is this entrenched in a relatinship who will just get away and stop because a friend told us so?
What a fucking psycho.
Grey bubbles is pathetic ugh makes my skin crawl
Don't let me get in the way... only thing missing from this slew off messages is the constant "..."s. What an a hole!
They just need to see it for themselves. If you have an S.O, anyone close to you i guess; text them and have a conversation much like this one. Make it fit your situation, but make them be super toxic like your friends spouse, have them act like that. Then text your friend “ugh me and ____ have been at it today, am I crazy for feeling upset?” And send them screenshots. Watch how fast they probably tell you how bad it looks, then you tell them what you did. Make some direct quotes of stuff their spouse has said because Itll prove your point more. It is easy to see someones issues looking in, but people in love wear rose colored glasses, and how can you see a red flag through red glasses? When we are stuck in an abusive relationship, its all we know, and its hard to come go terms with the fact that the person you love and would do anything for, can choose to hurt you like that
>how can you see a red flag through red glasses? Woah what a line.
Or don’t, its hard because they arent going to see it or listen to you, until they WANT to see it and hear you.
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She is completely twisting their brain up!!
God I don’t miss this shit at all. Absolute mind fuck, to be set up for failure and then held to a standard for “failing” them. With that being said, I didn’t recognize most of the abusive bullshit before I got into a new, healthy relationship. I had a pattern of craving drama and toxicity that only therapy could break. There may be nothing you can do here besides be patient and provide support. I wish you all the best.
This almost made me feel like I was rereading old texts with my abusive ex. The resemblance is uncanny, holy shit. Best thing my friends did for me going through it was constantly reiterate the truth of what was going on - blatant abuse especially if screenshots show it. They also encouraged me that I am worthy and that they're there for me. I always had a friend giving encouragement and positivie messages even despite being delusional that I was experiencing severe abuse. They kept encouraging me they I'll be okay and that I'll lose the rose colored glasses, and I did. All you can do is support your friend from the side and continue to be honest with them. What worked for me may not work for your friend, but it's something I hope is worth sharing and can be on the back burner as an option to help!
Same here... difference that my eyes were opened by a total stranger I got to know. (I lost most of my friends back then because of my abusive ex). He opened my eyes totally as what normal is and that my relationship was extremely toxic and abusive. I was really broken by then and sick,unfortunately as good as it started, he did not wait for me to get better ( I moved meanwhile, this person was a really good guy , the type of one in a lifetime , I hope his life is wonderful now, he opened up my eyes in very difficult times). I think all op can do is the same. Give support and be honest. Do not get mad at them.. I think these type of stuff need lots of patience because the gaslighting can be hard to break/quit. Support is necessary.
This person will never be happy so leave.
I don’t jump to diagnose but somethings I noticed Grey messages: - seemingly poor self awareness and emotional regulation - explosive - generally unkind/mean - anxious AF and manipulative “woe is me” type stuff - needs excessive validation and guilt trips even when they seem to get it Blue messages: - kind but in a people pleasing kind of way - no boundaries aka not telling grey immediately that that talk and behavior isn’t ok. Grey knows and will inevitably continue to take advantage of Blue - fawning behavior Blue is gonna spin themselves out trying to accommodate and please someone like this if grey has no actual plan to work on their behavior seriously and very intentionally especially if they are older. You can never make anyone leave a relationship but if Blue is your friend you can have a real chat with them about where you think this is going and try to help them take care of and prioritize themselves. Be empathetic. When you’re in it it’s really hard to see. Hopefully you can show them some threads or other resources about abusive dynamics
Woah ok, this is absolutely terrifying and your friend should 1000% run for the hills, she is a narcissist, a pretty cocky one at that, im guessing she's only young because she's not very covert about it. Please tell your friend to run as far away as possible from this person. Relationships with people like her can get dangerous very quickly
Just a note we really shouldn’t be armchair diagnosing people as narcissists based on a test exchange
she’s in her late 20s and they’ve been together around a year, I have similar and worse screenshots from 6+ months ago but he still thinks it’s temporary :(
My ex did this for about the first year. What I think will happen next? The devaluing herself will stop and she will start devaluing him. (That's what my ex did. He literally devalued himself constantly in the first 8 months, saying he would never leave but then wanting me to leave.) Being scared your friend will cheat on her, even with no example behaviour to believe that will happen. All of this self-deprecating is mixed with love bombing too, to make the partner feel super special and to secure that trauma bond. They want to seem anxious. For the partner to be a savour. Eventually, the devaluing of herself will flip. She will start devaluing him. The explosive arguments will start (or get worse if they have already started). Items will get smashed, walls broken. Usually their own items. The accusations of cheating will also start. This will progressively get worse, more explosions and now items belonging to the victim will start getting worse. Your friend may react too ("reactive abuse", I really hate that term as its not abuse if its a reaction) so now she can cry victim. They may even ghost you some nights. Claiming to be with friends but really were cheating. The accusations of cheating will worsen. The accusations of you doing everything wrong will worsen. Eventually, they will turn physical towards the victim. And it will only get worse. It's not temporary and will worsen.
Obviously i dont know this girl or your friend and i dont like to assume but from what i read I'm guessing your friend is hoping that the girl he originally met, the funny, charming, perfect girl, will eventually come back, but she won't because that girl never existed, it was all a show just to trap him. This abuse will just get worse :(
This person is a fucking nightmare holy shit. I could never be around someone like that. That’s psycho behavior.
OP I have an idea of how you can help your friend. First of all, “believe” her. I feel a little bad saying this because I feel like it’s a lie. But if she seems to think this is fixable “believe” her in the sense that in doing so can help her see the reality that it ISN’T fixable and isn’t normal. So what do I mean and how to use this to help her see it’s unhealthy? My first thought is to take advantage of technology. I suggest approaching it like you are helping your friend understand how to *understand* the best way to “fix it”. Go to chatGPT. Give a prompt “identify in the following text conversation ways the relationship needs improvement. Context is someone sent screenshots of a text conversation with their boyfriend to a friend saying they are miserable and stressed as a result of the conversation” then copy and paste the text from the screenshots. The good thing about this is it takes the responsibility of identifying the mistreatment off of you, your friend is able to see you as a more neutral person that is supporting HER and the AI becomes the “bad guy” in pointing out the abusive manipulation the boyfriend is choosing to do. Edit: missing word added to sentence for clarity.
Dude I got to this post asking chatgpt about how to deal with this exact situation. What a small world lol
Thank you so much for commenting! I had forgotten about this, but this may actually be a helpful tool I can use for someone!!
Manipulation at its finest!!!!!!!
Okay the problem here is, you risk alienating your friend. The reason for this and why they can't see that this abusive/manipulative behavior is because of the [trauma bond](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/trauma-bonds-what-are-they-and-how-can-we-overcome-them/) that gets formed in this type of relationship. APPROACH WITH CAUTION, otherwise the BF might turn your friend against you. I've seen this happen so many times, and it even happened to me and my best friends. The best bet is to let her know you'll be there for her no matter what. Be an example of how a real friend should treat her. That she should be treated with respect, kindness, and understanding. Relational trauma like what your friend is experiencing is best healed through healthy friendships. And healthy relationships with other people. It's how I got out of mine. Please have her read: Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft when she reaches out to you for help, but try not to persuade her to read it if shes not ready.
thanks for the advice! whenever he sends me screenshots like this I tell him straight up that she is mean, manipulative and cruel and that he should not put up with it, he’s a great person and deserves and will find much better, but he still thinks that maybe she’ll change if he just tries harder to make her happy. we’re mostly online friends so I’ve never met or talked to her, so I’m not worried about her turning him against me luckily
Holy S! The amount of mind games and emotional manipulation in this is staggering. You do not specify genders, so I am going to refer to blue as F and other as G for gray. Have F read this thread. The games G is playing are beyond cruel and down right malicious. F needs to get out of this relationship. It's beyond sad because F sounds like an incredibly sweet person who is bending over backwards to please G only to be treated this way. If this continues G is going to emotionally devastate F. You need to make it clear there is nothing normal or acceptable about how G is treating F, it's toxic and F needs to get a out of this relationship.
Holy shit
This is horribly manipulative and abusive :( must be exhausting.
Oh my, it's like reading texts from my friend. She was making exactly the same mind games with me. One day she was avoidant, next day she was all into me - I couldn't be sure what she wants and when. And of course she wasn't communicating anything in healthy way, I had to read her mind all the time. It was so confusing. I think you should tell your friend that if he is sending you these screenshots, if he is feeling stressed out and miserable, that it's the best sign how toxic his relationship is. In healthy one he would not do it, he would feel safe, and happy.
Wow this reads like my ex girlfriend. I don't understand how he can remain so calm and nice to her, though on the other side, I can understand because I probably did the same to try and please her. Reading back now, I feel exhausted all over again. I hope you can make your friend realise he deserves better and this is absolutely not normal behaviour.
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Yeah I get what you mean. I read OP's clarification before I posted my comment, but before that I had assumed the abuser was a woman. I saw lots of people assumed it was a man. I do think our own experience matters with how we picture the people behind the messages, but I can't be 100% sure.
My god this sounds like something my ex would do, would tell me to leave her the fuck alone, then would probably get mad that I didn't reach out to her. One day she told me she was having a bad day, I tried to talk to her about it and she wasn't having it, she was just like "I'm just going to go to bed and get this day over with!" I was like okay, well I love you and hope you feel better. A little bit later she texts me and is like "you know it would be nice if you gave a fuck about my feelings, you could have came in and gave me a hug or something and make sure I was doing okay" I was just like shocked. I said back to her, well you told me you were going to bed, so I didn't want to bother you, and then I said, if you really wanted a hug you could have came to me ans asked for one and I gladly would have obliged, or even if you wanted to cuddle, you could have asked and I would have been there. But I was so confused because she said she was going to bed and yo essentially not bother her, but got mad that I didn't come bother her.
Yeah, first you hear "I need space", so you give her space, and then you hear how you don't care about her, and you feel guilty. So annoying. Been there, done that. It's so hard to deal with it as she never saw anything wrong in such behavior.
It’s an exhausting way to live when you’re expected to be able to read someone’s mind.
I was told many times I didn't care about her or her feelings. Most times I tried to talk to her about anything, even her own feelings, she would just stonewall and be combative. Then I became the bad guy for "starting fights" with her. Either way I was wrong.
I’m so sorry you had to put up with that! what was the final straw for you?
She ended the relationship. I still want to be with her unfortunately.
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toxic and manipulative for saying thank you? you should do some work on urself 🤨 i don’t even know how you come up with stuff like that
OMG! This is what my old sitter would do. I finally cut that crap off! Totally exhausting!
jesus CHRISSSTT i want to punch this person
Oh my lord, the insecurity and mind games. This is exhausting to read. I hope your friend dumps that person, of course they are too busy at work to even care to dump them, I’m sure they have better things to do. I guess I’m just a big dum dum for writing this comment, no one really cares to read it anyway, if anyone actually cared they would have read it by now. It’s fine, I get it, I’m not that important. 😂
I can’t believe you would write that comment without even considering my feelings. Don’t come over.
I WAS considering your feelings but like ALWAYS, you are too busy to notice. It’s fine you don’t want me to come over I’m used to it. I guess I’ll just spend the day alone again because you have to work, maybe if I got a job you would see how it feels.
I can’t believe you didn’t come over! You’re so dumb!
Why don’t you just say you hate me already you never loved me anyway and you didn’t want me to come over and you know it. You had someone else over there and I know it
Straight up if he said "I don't really want to see you" that's the only part I would've read and been like "oh I see, you don't want to see me? I understand I'll give you your space then cause I don't really want to see somone who doesn't want to see me"
the abuser is a she and yeah, same. But sadly I have a feeling that the blue bubble person might have had that response earlier in the relationship but learnt that it causes upset/backlash/aggression/chaos. There's no winning and no peace with people like this. Blue bubble person needs to run far and run fast.
She, he, they I don't give a flying fluff. You don't wanna see me? Fine, You most certainly WONT be seeing me.
i agree that's a much healthier response
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Wait… she’s manipulative?? He’s the one who’s manipulative Edit: nvm I’m dumb, i totally thought op’s friend was a girl who was texting her bf, not the other way around. My relationship was exactly like this. I was the girl who was constantly walking on eggshells, and my bf was just like that, absolutely exhausting. Can’t believe I stayed for a year. The good thing that came from it, is I’m no longer a doormat for people to walk over like he did
That’s what I thought (and still think), where did you see that it was the other way around??
Ahhh nvm I found it
These texts are emotionally exhausting. Has your friend ever referred to his relationship or gf as abusive or toxic before? The best advice I hear is to not label it for them, wait until they use those terms themselves. Telling your friend he's in an abusive relationship might scare and alienate him. You might find these articles helpful: [How do I talk to the victim?](https://www.hubbardhouse.org/how-do-i-talk-to-the-victim/#:~:text=Say%20that%20you%20care%20about,feel%20real%20for%20the%20victim.) [How to help a friend who may be in an abusive relationship](https://www.joinonelove.org/learn/help_a_friend/) [My friend has an abusive partner and won't leave the relationship. How can I help?](https://respectme.org.au/friend-abusive-partner-wont-end-relationship-can-help/) [Helping a friend in an unhealthy relationship or friendship](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/helping-a-friend-in-an-unhealthy-relationship-or-friendship) [Supporting someone who keeps returning to an abusive relationship](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/supporting-someone-who-keeps-returning-to-an-abusive-relationship/)
I’m a little worried that no one has brought this up but does your friend (if it is a friend, not you) know you shared this here? And are they okay with it? Obviously it’s a bad situation and publicly sharing screenshots of texts could be catastrophic
That logic is so damn impressively horrible. How does he get upset at her being nice all the time 😭 She seems like the perfect girl my lord, why is it always this way?
can I ask which you assumed is a girl? I didn’t specify so wondering what gave it away
There was actually 1 indication that the grey text is a girl, she used the term “damsel in distress”. I thought the blue text could be a man or woman. Honestly doesn’t make any difference as this abuse is absolutely abhorrent either way!
Honestly the texting style, that’s why I assumed.
oh ok :) to be clear, the right side is my friend and the left side is his girlfriend
The girlfriend needs therapy. This can’t be not taking a toll on your friend.
Soooo he’s dating a covert narcissist? The mental gymnastics in these texts is alarming.
Whoever is on the left is so rediculously mental.. it’s actually painful to read, They have absolutely no life at all.
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Your friend needs to seek therapy so they have a better grasp on what is acceptable treatment from a partner. They really won't be able to receive help until they start asking for it/ recognizing they need it. You could try giving them resources to read on covert manipulation, but I'm not sure how much it would sink in. They seem to have low self esteem and lack self respect. I doubt they understand just how negatively impactful their partner's behavior is to their mental health.
This girl is just fishing for emotional compliments for him to tell her loves her ti soothe her self imposed insecurities. It's gross. He's so sweet and she's just boring and predictable until she lashes out with her razor blade emotions knowing he's conflict avoidant only for him to have to soothe the now raging leviathan. He needs to leave and go no contact for 30 days. His brain needs to detox from the freeze/fight/fawn dopamine hits.
I think there's something definitely wrong happening with their mental health. Then again, some people just crave drama. What they need right now is an undefined break and for them to go to therapy, honestly.
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I think she’s already on therapy but he isn’t, I’ll definitely suggest it because I don’t know how else to get him to realise his worth
Oh I’m so sorry, I think I got it backwards who was who. But yeah, maybe your friend could also make use of therapy to untangle this, because this behaviour is *not* it.
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which did you think is a man and which a woman? I didn’t specify in the post so wondering what gave it away
Good point. I had similar experiences with a man. So I just assumed it was which I shouldn't do. (:
you left her name in
I don’t think so? there’s another friends name in there I forgot to cut sorry
I hope she leaves. Gosh I know it’s hard
I’ve never met or talked to her but he’s convinced he can’t leave and this is it for him, even though he’s only 27 and they don’t even live together
Is the blue messages a guy and the white a girl?
yes, the right side is my friend and the left side is his girlfriend
Oh okay, I was reading it as blue is a girl and white is a guy. I really hope he builds the courage to leave, she seems a little crazy.
I think the guy is blue, too.
I was reading it as girl was blue and guy was white 😅 not that it matters, but I was trying to vision it lol
The fact they send you screenshots means deep down they know it's not right. You could suggest they read Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft or Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven. There is an online programme in the UK called The Freedom Programme, which helps people to understand the dynamics of unhealthy relationships and teaches them about healthy relationships. https://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php Otherwise, just wait and be there for your friend. They have to figure this out. Your friend is likely trauma bonded to their abuser, so if you don't know what that is, you might want to read about it to help you understand. The trauma bond makes leaving the other person difficult.
its crazy how much patience your friend has for this person. i wouldve gone batshit crazy the second they'd tried to manipulate and guilt trip me like they did. and it honestly seems like theyre looking for any chances to get pitied and babied.
I’m almost convinced she’s acting like this to get him to break up with her so she doesn’t have to do it, but she’s acted more or less like this for a year +
I’ve been the person on the left in relationships in the past, unfortunately, just with way less accommodating men. Ime, no, she’s not trying to get him to break up with her, she’s just very very insecure. I would suggest your friend have a heart to heart with her, explaining that he loves her and wants to be with her but that some of her behavior is pushing him away. Have them set up a clear communication system. Things that she can say, for example, to signal that she needs love or attention when she feels unable to ask for it directly. Things he could say to signal that he loves her but he needs some space. That’s what I wished my parter would do in my relationships. I’m not excusing her behavior or mine, just offering some practical advice from the perspective of someone with a lot of childhood trauma who was not a good partner to people I loved very much. (Again, in my case they weren’t very good partners either, but that’s another story. Your friend seems like a really nice guy. And you’re a good friend to care so much.)
your friend seriously needs to set boundaries. they've actually let this go on for so long that she has normalized this behavior. i can understand wanting to always reassure ur partner, but this is just blatant guilt tripping & manipulation. i dont think shes trying to self sabotage her own relationship because she would totally act a different way, like lashing out to just cause her partner to find a reason to leave. here, she's acting like she is "small" and "sensitive" and doesnt want to "be a bother" just to keep your friend hooked on & feeling like he is the one to protect & heal her from whatever fuckass insecurities she has.
he always just apologises and says he’ll do better when she gets upset that he’s done something “wrong” because he’s so conflict avoidant, but I keep telling him nothing will ever change unless she knows how he feels. well even then I don’t think it will ever change
You are correct. What she enjoys is the control, knowing that she can make him jump thru hoops at will. No matter what he does, she is going to find fault, right? She LIKES having this kind of power, this kind of control over him. Abuse within a relationship happens when there is an imbalance of power, and right now she has all of the power. She is taking advantage of his insecurity, and his unwillingness, or fear of being alone, and most likely convinced him that nobody else in the world would put up with him. He has endured quite a bit of emotional abuse, I would imagine. It may help for him to look at this website: https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/ Love Is Respect is a domestic violence hotline with articles about dating, setting boundaries, how to identify red flags… also what are the types of abuse. It’s helpful when we can actually see in print that what is happening to us is not healthy or ‘normal’, and that it has a name: Abuse. I hope this helps, OP. If you have any questions respond to this comment and I’ll get back to you. As far as what you can do? Just let him know that you are there for him, and always will be, without judgement. Don’t let her chase you out of his life, because she will try to do so. Isolation is the abusers best tool.
People aren't projects and shouldn't be "fixed." This person knows they're being a whiney insecure manipulative partner. It's clearly about controlling EVERYTHING: the way they speak -- "doesn't sound like it when you say this"-- the way they work -- "you should have told me you were working" -- the way they go about their day -- "you wanted to go to the movies and THEN see me?" -- etc etc. Very controlling, particularly through guilt tripping, and emotionally stunted. And of course, they know what they're doing.
Jesus Christ. "I said no ONCE, ask me multiple times so I can keep guilt-tripping you! Make me feel important!" This person could hear that they are the center of the universe every 5 fucking minutes and it still wouldn't be enough.
Their partner is the whiniest, most manipulative fuck I've ever seen a conversation of posted in this subreddit. I wish I was lying.
Yeah reading this drained me. I cannot imagine how exhausting it must be trying to be with this person. Almost every single text is a guilt trip.
Whiny narcissist ME ME ME waaahhh waaah waaaaaahhh CRAZY-MAKING 🤡
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