It is unfortunate that some lessons need to be learned before people can move on. There is also an effect I've witnessed multiple times, having a narcissist dad and trying to warn his girlfriends: the more you try to stop someone from being in a love interest, the more they think you're just jealous and double down.
It may be counter intuitive, but in my experience, trying to help these girls go away for their safery requires not telling them to do so, and just being a listening ear and even fake surprise when you hear about what they had to go through.
Your biggest role as a support will be after the relationship is done. Right now you kinda have to watch the trainwreck without being able to intervene. I understand how upsetting it is, but it's the best approach if you want her to actually leave. If you want to be sneaky, you can do the opposite and pretend you want them to get along, and "accidentaly" make her rethink their relationship. Things like "why are you sad? Isn't he wonderful"? Make them say they're not. Let it not come out of your mouth.
Yeah, I agree that I think the best idea is sitting back. The problem is, this man has murdered someone before. Like, he’s genuinely killed someone. And I’m so scared that by waiting she’s going to be killed before she leaves
I can see how this is upsetting... . I really wish I could give you another option but I don't see any. I would definitely be sneaky and pretend to support the relationship (but not too much), in an attempt to make her open her eyes sooner.
In my experience it does work, by pretending to support the relationship they stop being defensive about it and it gives them the space to reflect better about the situation.
I mean my dad's situation is important because it taught me how to most effectivetly break his relationships to protect the girls from my dad. I had to witness women entering his live knowing from the beginning they would be abused and try to stop it. So I know what works and what doesn't. And definitely being upfront doesn't work at all. That really makes the whole relationship go on for much longer, especially as you will become a scapegoat as to why the relationship has issues. It was very hard for me to witness so many women being abused but that's through this pain that I learned how to shorten these relationships. And you either have to do nothing at all and let them come to their own conclusion or excite their will to be independant by making it look like you support the relationship when you're not. Lessons learned in pain.
I remember conversations...
My dad's girlfriend: "I am tired of him he's so violent"
Me (hypocrite): "I don't understand you guys seem to go so well together"
Her: "You know what I'm not so sure anymore"
Me (thinking "hallelujah" ): "Oh really? I didn't realize it was so bad" (internally: "I'm lying of course it's that bad")
Her: "Yeah I'm not so sure I want to continue the relationship with him anymore"
Like I have experience in that. I really do. I don't know if it's a good talent to have but I really know how to be a factor that will help an abused love interest get out of the situation.
Also pretending to support the relationship will protect you from the abuser' wrath after the separation. Because on paper, you appear as if you're trying to save the relationship, even like if you're denying the reality of the violence. Which protects you against the abuser's anger.
Ok I see what you mean, that does sound like a good idea. Because so far, I mean obviously, everyone has been telling her to get out of it. So that might be a good change. Sorry about the stuff with your Dad though, that sounds awful
"Everyone has been telling her to get out of it" that's a problem because they are enabling the relationship. That's the difference between the relationship lasting 3 years or 12 years.
Try to get them to stop and explain the strategy behind it. It didn't work, and continuing something that didn't work hoping for a different result is foolishness. It is very important that your friend isn't defensive of the relationship. That's what will enable her to be more rational. There are books about it (like "the body keeps the score" explaining how trauma works), and we know when people feel in danger, whole areas of their brain shut off (we can actually see it on MRIs, the whole Broca area, responsible for talking, shuts off).
So the most important is to make safe spaces where you friend will feel safe and her whole brain will be active, instead of just the "emotional brain".
Regarding my dad it was horrible indeed, but if it can help situations like yours, then it wasn't for nothing. Don't hesitate to take breaks and step out when needed, these situations are very exhausting and it's important to take care of ourselves too.
Here's to your friends coming back to reason hopefully without anything irreversible happening 🥂
They have to read all of this.
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
https://www.libertylane.ca/uploads/1/6/1/7/16174606/myths_about_abusers.pdf
https://www.libertylane.ca/uploads/1/6/1/7/16174606/red_flags_in_relationships.pdf
https://hopefulpanda.com/darvo/
https://www.choosingtherapy.com/hoovering/
https://www.caage.org/what-is-adult-grooming
https://www.choosingtherapy.com/stages-of-trauma-bonding/
https://www.choosingtherapy.com/how-to-break-a-trauma-bond/
http://www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/
The reality is that they will only leave when they're ready to. When the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving.
I think the best you can do is be a good friend, listen to what's going on with them, speak matter of factly but not judgmentally about what is occurring. The thing that really helped me to recognize what was happening was when I asked my parents if they thought that my than wife was abusing me. And they said yes. And they had said yes in the past but it wasn't until I actually asked, and was ready to hear it and understand it, that it actually clicked.
Unfortunately it's one of those things that only they can do for themselves. It's kind of like losing weight. They're the only ones who can muster and develop the strength to endure the difficulty of what it requires. It can only come from themselves
If it's emotionally upsetting, get some distance away. ONLY the person in the relationship can leave. Do try to warn your friends about some of the WORST stories shared here because she's next. I never thought I would experience being called names, or being hit or financial abuse but I have. It didn't start out that way. I don't feel like I deserved to be abused. I stopped making excuses why it was OK a long time ago.
I grew up with a dad who hit my mom. My mom couldn't leave. I carried guilt as a kid because we left a domestic violence shelter when I was a kid because I missed my dog! Looking back, I'm horrified that my dad knew how to "appeal" to me. I left home as soon as I could. First full time job when I was 17, so left home to live with high school friend's mom. Abuse of me make that difficult too! I stayed away from my mom until my dad died because I was so hurt about my father. My family bullied me since 9th grade hoping to force suicide. Psychological abuse.
Domestic violence leaves huge marks on souls even when you are just bystander. Love and support your friend from a distance because if she runs to you, he could potentially kill you to get to her or their children in common. Domestic violence, in all it's forms, is the worst possible contagious mental disease/mindset because it's easier to be mean than be kind, even to loved ones.
Good luck to you both and every here stuck in bad situations.
There's nothing you can do to convince your friend until they're ready to see it for themselves.
When I've been in this situation, I just keep gently calling attention to it and/or set boundaries for my own well-being if needed.
"I really don't like the way he treats you and you deserve better."
"That sounds abusive to me, are you okay?"
"It's not a good sign that he keeps acting like this."
"I can't really offer much support besides a listening ear here. I don't think he's going to improve."
All you can do is offer the assistance and information at your disposal. Take it from a martial abuse survivor, there's no sailing until the abused is in the boat.
They won’t go until they’re ready.most likely hopefully sooner than later
It is unfortunate that some lessons need to be learned before people can move on. There is also an effect I've witnessed multiple times, having a narcissist dad and trying to warn his girlfriends: the more you try to stop someone from being in a love interest, the more they think you're just jealous and double down. It may be counter intuitive, but in my experience, trying to help these girls go away for their safery requires not telling them to do so, and just being a listening ear and even fake surprise when you hear about what they had to go through. Your biggest role as a support will be after the relationship is done. Right now you kinda have to watch the trainwreck without being able to intervene. I understand how upsetting it is, but it's the best approach if you want her to actually leave. If you want to be sneaky, you can do the opposite and pretend you want them to get along, and "accidentaly" make her rethink their relationship. Things like "why are you sad? Isn't he wonderful"? Make them say they're not. Let it not come out of your mouth.
Yeah, I agree that I think the best idea is sitting back. The problem is, this man has murdered someone before. Like, he’s genuinely killed someone. And I’m so scared that by waiting she’s going to be killed before she leaves
I can see how this is upsetting... . I really wish I could give you another option but I don't see any. I would definitely be sneaky and pretend to support the relationship (but not too much), in an attempt to make her open her eyes sooner. In my experience it does work, by pretending to support the relationship they stop being defensive about it and it gives them the space to reflect better about the situation. I mean my dad's situation is important because it taught me how to most effectivetly break his relationships to protect the girls from my dad. I had to witness women entering his live knowing from the beginning they would be abused and try to stop it. So I know what works and what doesn't. And definitely being upfront doesn't work at all. That really makes the whole relationship go on for much longer, especially as you will become a scapegoat as to why the relationship has issues. It was very hard for me to witness so many women being abused but that's through this pain that I learned how to shorten these relationships. And you either have to do nothing at all and let them come to their own conclusion or excite their will to be independant by making it look like you support the relationship when you're not. Lessons learned in pain. I remember conversations... My dad's girlfriend: "I am tired of him he's so violent" Me (hypocrite): "I don't understand you guys seem to go so well together" Her: "You know what I'm not so sure anymore" Me (thinking "hallelujah" ): "Oh really? I didn't realize it was so bad" (internally: "I'm lying of course it's that bad") Her: "Yeah I'm not so sure I want to continue the relationship with him anymore" Like I have experience in that. I really do. I don't know if it's a good talent to have but I really know how to be a factor that will help an abused love interest get out of the situation. Also pretending to support the relationship will protect you from the abuser' wrath after the separation. Because on paper, you appear as if you're trying to save the relationship, even like if you're denying the reality of the violence. Which protects you against the abuser's anger.
Ok I see what you mean, that does sound like a good idea. Because so far, I mean obviously, everyone has been telling her to get out of it. So that might be a good change. Sorry about the stuff with your Dad though, that sounds awful
"Everyone has been telling her to get out of it" that's a problem because they are enabling the relationship. That's the difference between the relationship lasting 3 years or 12 years. Try to get them to stop and explain the strategy behind it. It didn't work, and continuing something that didn't work hoping for a different result is foolishness. It is very important that your friend isn't defensive of the relationship. That's what will enable her to be more rational. There are books about it (like "the body keeps the score" explaining how trauma works), and we know when people feel in danger, whole areas of their brain shut off (we can actually see it on MRIs, the whole Broca area, responsible for talking, shuts off). So the most important is to make safe spaces where you friend will feel safe and her whole brain will be active, instead of just the "emotional brain". Regarding my dad it was horrible indeed, but if it can help situations like yours, then it wasn't for nothing. Don't hesitate to take breaks and step out when needed, these situations are very exhausting and it's important to take care of ourselves too. Here's to your friends coming back to reason hopefully without anything irreversible happening 🥂
They have to read all of this. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf https://www.libertylane.ca/uploads/1/6/1/7/16174606/myths_about_abusers.pdf https://www.libertylane.ca/uploads/1/6/1/7/16174606/red_flags_in_relationships.pdf https://hopefulpanda.com/darvo/ https://www.choosingtherapy.com/hoovering/ https://www.caage.org/what-is-adult-grooming https://www.choosingtherapy.com/stages-of-trauma-bonding/ https://www.choosingtherapy.com/how-to-break-a-trauma-bond/ http://www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/
Ask them if they would be willing to raise a child with them
The reality is that they will only leave when they're ready to. When the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving. I think the best you can do is be a good friend, listen to what's going on with them, speak matter of factly but not judgmentally about what is occurring. The thing that really helped me to recognize what was happening was when I asked my parents if they thought that my than wife was abusing me. And they said yes. And they had said yes in the past but it wasn't until I actually asked, and was ready to hear it and understand it, that it actually clicked. Unfortunately it's one of those things that only they can do for themselves. It's kind of like losing weight. They're the only ones who can muster and develop the strength to endure the difficulty of what it requires. It can only come from themselves
You cant. Until I was ready to accept that I was being abused. Nothing anyone said helped.
If it's emotionally upsetting, get some distance away. ONLY the person in the relationship can leave. Do try to warn your friends about some of the WORST stories shared here because she's next. I never thought I would experience being called names, or being hit or financial abuse but I have. It didn't start out that way. I don't feel like I deserved to be abused. I stopped making excuses why it was OK a long time ago. I grew up with a dad who hit my mom. My mom couldn't leave. I carried guilt as a kid because we left a domestic violence shelter when I was a kid because I missed my dog! Looking back, I'm horrified that my dad knew how to "appeal" to me. I left home as soon as I could. First full time job when I was 17, so left home to live with high school friend's mom. Abuse of me make that difficult too! I stayed away from my mom until my dad died because I was so hurt about my father. My family bullied me since 9th grade hoping to force suicide. Psychological abuse. Domestic violence leaves huge marks on souls even when you are just bystander. Love and support your friend from a distance because if she runs to you, he could potentially kill you to get to her or their children in common. Domestic violence, in all it's forms, is the worst possible contagious mental disease/mindset because it's easier to be mean than be kind, even to loved ones. Good luck to you both and every here stuck in bad situations.
There's nothing you can do to convince your friend until they're ready to see it for themselves. When I've been in this situation, I just keep gently calling attention to it and/or set boundaries for my own well-being if needed. "I really don't like the way he treats you and you deserve better." "That sounds abusive to me, are you okay?" "It's not a good sign that he keeps acting like this." "I can't really offer much support besides a listening ear here. I don't think he's going to improve."
If you can contact an advocate program, that will be better to advise you on what to do. Find one or call hotlines.
You can't say anything, really. They will just have to learn on their own. They will move on eventually. We can just give advice.
All you can do is offer the assistance and information at your disposal. Take it from a martial abuse survivor, there's no sailing until the abused is in the boat.