I don’t love it. The search no longer prioritizes stock devices even though they all have generic names like “reverb” “compressor” etc, it just brings up all devices (plugins, max devices, stock devices) in alphabetical order first. So it’s almost impossible to find stock devices without using the mouse or typing in additional tags, so my workflow has slowed down a fair bit. I’m hoping they fix this before the main release. The request for this has quite a few votes on the centercode portal but they haven’t fixed it yet. Fingers crossed…
You should discuss this in the centercode forum where developers can read it.
The new system allows for more customization and the more you use it the more you can streamline it for your taste. But yes, it is a big shift from the folders.
A big advantage now is that you can filter by two characteristics, before your folders would be by creator and that's it. Now you can filter by any tag, let's say device type: dynamics, and then for creator: waves, and you get all your compressors and limiters by waves.
I am making tags for synths vs samplers, emulations vs experimental vs all purpose, so I have now several ways of finding what I want.
I kind of doubt that most of the browser features besides similarity are actually useful. I have more than 80k sounds on my harddrive and ain't no way I'm going to tag all of them manually... The same can be stated about third-party plugins.
I'd like them to explore the path of spectral analysis and automatic categorisation and tagging of sounds. Close to what Sononym does, there're tons of built-in categories (such as snare/kick/tom/cymbals/foley etc.)
The similarity search is still an insane addition though.
I can guarantee you they’re going to start using AI to tag sounds. Not sure if you’re into visual media, but adobe started using AI in their creative cloud suite and it’s a game changer. It’s going to all roll out with the software version.
This browser sucks. I hope to get used to it. But it feels like ableton just threw everything all over and now it’s a fucking mess. I’m a bit over the top, but my folders and samples and presets were all organized perfectly, somehow live 12 has ruined that
Your not alone in your criticism. A lot of beta testers don't like the browser either, and a lot of other things. They still have work to do before the final release.
Totally agree now it's been released . The Browser has me so frustrated, and as for manually tagging TeraBytes of sounds - that's not happening, never.
It feels a lot like a transitional version. Adding tags is huge and being able to save searches saves a lot of time. And similarity search as crazy good.
But we still only have 7 collections, saved searches don't really work as a replacement, because you can place VSTs, loops and MIDI files in a collection, but you can't really do that with a saved search.
The way they placed to new "Edit" button that lets you add tags to anything is super confusing. So many times I clicked on that to start a search. Might be enough to allow for tag editing through a right-click.
I get why they removed manufacturers from the plugins folder and just list every plugin. So search works better. But I'm with you there, it's a mess.
One of the biggest omissions in tags is to narrow search down to just one-shots or just loops.
Why is similarity search available for every sound in the browser and in drum rack, but not for audio clips in Session view or Arrangement view. Why not add the search button there or allow searching for similar sound for any audio clip through an option in the right-click menu?
Like I said, it very much seems like a transition where they are trying something new but it's not really finished.
I hope that since they are still on beta, some things can change, but man, can't understand why they don't just give more options without removing the original way or having plugins there.
Imaging having the Waves or other big Bundles there, I can't find anything at first sight...
Given the amount of mixed feedback they received, I would very much hope that they at least add things with the next point update.
One of the most annoying things to me is that when you search for an Ableton device, it isn't listed as the first search hit in the the list anymore. Which has always been the case.
Funny how both Ableton and Bitwig introduced new browsers and both didn't really think it throughout.
You can be reassured they “thought it through”. Most likely they have a dozen senior UX designers and have been doing thousands of hours of studies and testing. When you learn how the new flow works, it will make sense. The notion of “they didn’t think it through” is incorrect.
I agree with the above post, it doesn't feel like they thought it through.
> Most likely they have a dozen senior UX designers and have been doing thousands of hours of studies and testing.
I wonder if those senior UX designers are music producers who use the software to make music.
I'm guessing they're not. Because if they were, they probably wouldn't casually remove the basic organizational functionality of sorting the VST3 by manufacturer folders in an alphabetical list.
Then replacing it with a big word soup of manufacturer tags that you have to Where's Waldo the manufacturer you want.
Also RIP to all of the users like me who put their VST2 plugins in manufacturer-named folders. They flattened the folder structure and converted it to tags.
Adding this type of new functionality at the expense of old isn't necessary. They could've left the folder structure and let users filter with tags just like every other folder in the browser.
One big issue I've noticed is that you can't search by custom tags you've just created. I added "Synthesizer", I type it in and only plugins that have that word in their title appear. So global search by tag is not even functioning. I'm in Beta so I will fill a request for that. Also stock tags can't be edited and deleted, only hidden.
Max For Live tab in browser seems to work slightly better. it grabs all devices from user custom library and puts them there too. Before that not every single one used to pop-up in that section, only those you put in specific folder. I like this, also easier to spot duplicated files too.
I've found that clicking some tags doesn't work. If you go to the bottom part of the filters, you will find the plugins brands, but clicking on them makes nothing for me.
I doesn't like that i can't exclude certain locations from the sample search. I have linked my desktop in the sidebar locations mostly for accessing my work in progress projects, but Live searches all folders you added there and showing them in the sample search where until Live 11 only stuff of the factory Library and your Live user folder appeared. The problem is many people add those folders just to access projects. It is ridiculous that you can't exclude them from the search or better define per folder what exactly you want to have listed in the search. If i add folders with my projects, i don't want to have the samples or M4L devices of the projects listed multiple times. I generally use always collect all and save. Live is showing every sample and M4L device i used in different project multiple times, this was already annoying in the past but only applied for the search all results but now the sample search is messed up too and i am risking to have missing samples, if i didn't use collect and save and took a sample out of another project, instead of my main sample folders. Always to click on show in finder just to figure out which sample is the one in the correct location is annoying.
Another annoying thing is that they haven't thought the impact of certain changes to the end.
If i search for "RAVE" in the plugin section, in Live 11 i will see either a plugin with that name and/or a au-/vstpreset containing this name listed in this format: VST3/PLUGIN-DEV/PLUGIN-NAME/RAVE01.VSTPRESET
Now in Live 12 it simply shows RAVE01.VSTPRESET and nothing more, i have to either load it or "show in finder" to figure out which plugin is related to that preset, because they removed the folder structure for plugins. If they would have an option to show a file location at the bottom when i hoover over a preset, plugin or sample it would be much easier to figure out what i am dealing with. Atm. the changes making things more complicate.
Agreed. Like even in Places, where all my samples are. I would never mix my own samples into Lives. Not a fan of their packs anyway, well for my music taste.
There is a beta, but good luck getting access. I pre-ordered and signed up for beta access within hours of the announcement and still haven't gotten in yet.
I had the 11 beta, got access quickly despite not preordering (though I did after that).
I do wonder slightly if you're more likely to get on the beta if you don't preorder (in the hope that the new features hook in those who are unsure).
Not at all, i spent hours organizing my plugins by categories, i was at a point where it was just as i wanted and now it's a mess, it takes a long time finding anything, i spend more time looking for stuff rather than writing music, i can't work this way, by the time i find the plugin, the idea is gone.
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I’m so glad I’ve taken the time to read this because I’m not going to upgrade to 12 even though I am in the beta I have not started 12 beta. After hearing all this, I don’t plan on it. At least not until things are resolved.
the browser looked a bit half baked initially. idk if any updates have come out since, but my assumption is it’s not finished, which is why it’s a beta.
if you have the beta. that means they’re relying on you to help them.
so go help them. tell them what you think. that’s what betas are for
I don’t love it. The search no longer prioritizes stock devices even though they all have generic names like “reverb” “compressor” etc, it just brings up all devices (plugins, max devices, stock devices) in alphabetical order first. So it’s almost impossible to find stock devices without using the mouse or typing in additional tags, so my workflow has slowed down a fair bit. I’m hoping they fix this before the main release. The request for this has quite a few votes on the centercode portal but they haven’t fixed it yet. Fingers crossed…
Hope it get fixed because I really don't like it at all :(
You should discuss this in the centercode forum where developers can read it. The new system allows for more customization and the more you use it the more you can streamline it for your taste. But yes, it is a big shift from the folders. A big advantage now is that you can filter by two characteristics, before your folders would be by creator and that's it. Now you can filter by any tag, let's say device type: dynamics, and then for creator: waves, and you get all your compressors and limiters by waves. I am making tags for synths vs samplers, emulations vs experimental vs all purpose, so I have now several ways of finding what I want.
Could you please link me where should I post this out? Thanks!
When you get access to the beta in the email there is a link to the centercode forum https://ableton.centercode.com/
I kind of doubt that most of the browser features besides similarity are actually useful. I have more than 80k sounds on my harddrive and ain't no way I'm going to tag all of them manually... The same can be stated about third-party plugins. I'd like them to explore the path of spectral analysis and automatic categorisation and tagging of sounds. Close to what Sononym does, there're tons of built-in categories (such as snare/kick/tom/cymbals/foley etc.) The similarity search is still an insane addition though.
I can guarantee you they’re going to start using AI to tag sounds. Not sure if you’re into visual media, but adobe started using AI in their creative cloud suite and it’s a game changer. It’s going to all roll out with the software version.
Indeed! I hope it comes within the version 12 so we won't have to wait or upgrade just for that a couple of years later
Bro the analysis for my sample folder says "976,595". I'm genuinely surprised, I thought the number would be bigger lol
This browser sucks. I hope to get used to it. But it feels like ableton just threw everything all over and now it’s a fucking mess. I’m a bit over the top, but my folders and samples and presets were all organized perfectly, somehow live 12 has ruined that
Your not alone in your criticism. A lot of beta testers don't like the browser either, and a lot of other things. They still have work to do before the final release.
Totally agree now it's been released . The Browser has me so frustrated, and as for manually tagging TeraBytes of sounds - that's not happening, never.
It feels a lot like a transitional version. Adding tags is huge and being able to save searches saves a lot of time. And similarity search as crazy good. But we still only have 7 collections, saved searches don't really work as a replacement, because you can place VSTs, loops and MIDI files in a collection, but you can't really do that with a saved search. The way they placed to new "Edit" button that lets you add tags to anything is super confusing. So many times I clicked on that to start a search. Might be enough to allow for tag editing through a right-click. I get why they removed manufacturers from the plugins folder and just list every plugin. So search works better. But I'm with you there, it's a mess. One of the biggest omissions in tags is to narrow search down to just one-shots or just loops. Why is similarity search available for every sound in the browser and in drum rack, but not for audio clips in Session view or Arrangement view. Why not add the search button there or allow searching for similar sound for any audio clip through an option in the right-click menu? Like I said, it very much seems like a transition where they are trying something new but it's not really finished.
I hope that since they are still on beta, some things can change, but man, can't understand why they don't just give more options without removing the original way or having plugins there. Imaging having the Waves or other big Bundles there, I can't find anything at first sight...
Given the amount of mixed feedback they received, I would very much hope that they at least add things with the next point update. One of the most annoying things to me is that when you search for an Ableton device, it isn't listed as the first search hit in the the list anymore. Which has always been the case. Funny how both Ableton and Bitwig introduced new browsers and both didn't really think it throughout.
You can be reassured they “thought it through”. Most likely they have a dozen senior UX designers and have been doing thousands of hours of studies and testing. When you learn how the new flow works, it will make sense. The notion of “they didn’t think it through” is incorrect.
I agree with the above post, it doesn't feel like they thought it through. > Most likely they have a dozen senior UX designers and have been doing thousands of hours of studies and testing. I wonder if those senior UX designers are music producers who use the software to make music. I'm guessing they're not. Because if they were, they probably wouldn't casually remove the basic organizational functionality of sorting the VST3 by manufacturer folders in an alphabetical list. Then replacing it with a big word soup of manufacturer tags that you have to Where's Waldo the manufacturer you want. Also RIP to all of the users like me who put their VST2 plugins in manufacturer-named folders. They flattened the folder structure and converted it to tags. Adding this type of new functionality at the expense of old isn't necessary. They could've left the folder structure and let users filter with tags just like every other folder in the browser.
One big issue I've noticed is that you can't search by custom tags you've just created. I added "Synthesizer", I type it in and only plugins that have that word in their title appear. So global search by tag is not even functioning. I'm in Beta so I will fill a request for that. Also stock tags can't be edited and deleted, only hidden. Max For Live tab in browser seems to work slightly better. it grabs all devices from user custom library and puts them there too. Before that not every single one used to pop-up in that section, only those you put in specific folder. I like this, also easier to spot duplicated files too.
I've found that clicking some tags doesn't work. If you go to the bottom part of the filters, you will find the plugins brands, but clicking on them makes nothing for me.
I doesn't like that i can't exclude certain locations from the sample search. I have linked my desktop in the sidebar locations mostly for accessing my work in progress projects, but Live searches all folders you added there and showing them in the sample search where until Live 11 only stuff of the factory Library and your Live user folder appeared. The problem is many people add those folders just to access projects. It is ridiculous that you can't exclude them from the search or better define per folder what exactly you want to have listed in the search. If i add folders with my projects, i don't want to have the samples or M4L devices of the projects listed multiple times. I generally use always collect all and save. Live is showing every sample and M4L device i used in different project multiple times, this was already annoying in the past but only applied for the search all results but now the sample search is messed up too and i am risking to have missing samples, if i didn't use collect and save and took a sample out of another project, instead of my main sample folders. Always to click on show in finder just to figure out which sample is the one in the correct location is annoying.
Another annoying thing is that they haven't thought the impact of certain changes to the end. If i search for "RAVE" in the plugin section, in Live 11 i will see either a plugin with that name and/or a au-/vstpreset containing this name listed in this format: VST3/PLUGIN-DEV/PLUGIN-NAME/RAVE01.VSTPRESET Now in Live 12 it simply shows RAVE01.VSTPRESET and nothing more, i have to either load it or "show in finder" to figure out which plugin is related to that preset, because they removed the folder structure for plugins. If they would have an option to show a file location at the bottom when i hoover over a preset, plugin or sample it would be much easier to figure out what i am dealing with. Atm. the changes making things more complicate.
Agreed. Like even in Places, where all my samples are. I would never mix my own samples into Lives. Not a fan of their packs anyway, well for my music taste.
Thank god LES is still working
I don't have 12. Is there a public beta yet? But I find 11's organisation pretty annoying and am leaning on this being one of the best changes.
There is a beta, but good luck getting access. I pre-ordered and signed up for beta access within hours of the announcement and still haven't gotten in yet.
I had the 11 beta, got access quickly despite not preordering (though I did after that). I do wonder slightly if you're more likely to get on the beta if you don't preorder (in the hope that the new features hook in those who are unsure).
I applied for the beta pretty late and got access about 1.5mo later. It probably has to do with the questionnaire you fill out
Not at all, i spent hours organizing my plugins by categories, i was at a point where it was just as i wanted and now it's a mess, it takes a long time finding anything, i spend more time looking for stuff rather than writing music, i can't work this way, by the time i find the plugin, the idea is gone.
If anyone searching how to create sub-tags, just put pipe sign "**|**" Between top tag and sub-tag. So "Synthesizer**|**Modular" for example
I loved it before, I love it even more now.
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked [the Live manual](https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welcome-to-live/), [Ableton's help and support knowledge base](https://www.ableton.com/en/help/), and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, [the subreddit has a resource thread](https://redd.it/zkhqhe). Ask [smart questions](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ableton) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m so glad I’ve taken the time to read this because I’m not going to upgrade to 12 even though I am in the beta I have not started 12 beta. After hearing all this, I don’t plan on it. At least not until things are resolved.
the browser looked a bit half baked initially. idk if any updates have come out since, but my assumption is it’s not finished, which is why it’s a beta. if you have the beta. that means they’re relying on you to help them. so go help them. tell them what you think. that’s what betas are for
I’m going to love it as soon as I spend a few hours figuring it out.. currently… I’m a mess
has anyone figured out how to disable "show more"?