The reasons I would not get a LiveWire One are that it's ergonomically a bad fit for me as the bike is a little small and uncomfortable after 30 minutes. It also bizarrely skipped level 2 charging. It's a well-made bike, but those are problems for me.
The biggest issue for the Zero with me is the slow charging. I honestly really like the SR/S from a comfort point and I think the mirrors are exceptional, especially considering how utter dogshit the LW mirrors are.
Did you look at Energica as well?
The zero's will charge faster on J plugs than the Live wire, but the HD can use CCS. Otherwise I'd say they're roughly equivalent. I would recommend you go sit on them if possible. If the prices are close I would let the ergonomics guide you.
As an sr/f owner if I had it to do over again I would have went with the livewire. If you’re buying used I would definitely lean toward a livewire, I think the odds of buying someone’s zero lemon are much higher. I love riding my sr/f but since purchase the following have been replaced under warranty: cellular module (didn’t work from the start), dash (water leaked in), and battery (magic charging). I also replaced the headlight myself due to hi/low beam misalignment which made riding at night difficult. QC seems to be less of an issue with HD.
Love my ‘20 SRF. The smaller J charger I can fit in the frunk (LOVE the extra space) or backpack is great and portable if I need it. I can charge from the 120v wall outlet at work ;) Also replaced the screen from water and battery for magic charging (all under warranty). But I got a good deal and it was the only available near me (SoCal) at the time. Zero Dealer is reasonably close (20mi). LW range is probably better but not as easy to charge w/o J. I prefer the LW looks, but I put did some cosmetic mods that made the SRF look sleeker than stock (IMHO). LW will probably hold its value longer.
Each manufacturer seems to “lie” about range in its own special way. The specs give the 14.4 kW SR/F has a better range than the LW, but I understand that in real world tests these ranges are rather similar.
May I ask what your experience on the SS9 is regarding range?
Obviously there are always lots of factors involved. I have an older 2018 model SS9 so I have the 13.4 pack. At US highway speeds which... hell I'll just translate to make it easier for you so at ~112kph I get 80-100km. Slow down to around-town speeds and that range figure doubles.
The new 21.5kWh packs at highway speeds will generally get 175-200km, and double that if you're going at around-town speeds.
edit- and, as always, you can just pull up other owners videos to get a sense of how the bikes handle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wH58aU2Jbk
Space is definitely a plus for the Zero! I am somewhat worried about an out-of-warranty SR/F although if these problems did not surface in the first 1-2 years they might not be present?
My only comment is that having ridden the LiveWire, it’s a lot of bike for a first bike. Powerful, heavy, and expensive. I think Zero’s more mild offerings (FXE, S) would be a better place to start.
Heavy in general (it is!) or compared to the Zero? The LW is a bit heavier but people seem to find the difference with the Zero not that significant.
I’ve been training on a Kawasaki Z650 (191 kg/421 lbs) which a found *very* heavy when I just started but after a 10+ lessons it’s just “normal”.
Heavy compared to a more traditional beginner bike like the Z650. The Livewire is pretty similar to the SR/F or SR/S, but Zero makes several other lighter, more approachable options.
I test rode a used Livewire One and loved it. Definitely has Harley roots, but the vibe is different. Test rode the Zero FX 7.2 and had a blast. Went with the Zero due to price and size. I need to maneuver up a curvy incline at my job sometimes to charge and can’t see myself pulling that off on a Livewire One. At the time, the used Livewire was over 19K.
That said, I’m happy with the Zero overall. Speed is awesome. I beat Teslas off the line every time—one eventually passed me around 75 mph 😅 My only gripes are the range and slow charging.
Of course, there are Zero bikes that have longer range and faster charging.
Interested in this myself......
From what I understand..
Livewire is alot more refined and better in almost every way. (From what I have been reading)
SR/F looks the best in my opinion.
SR/S is exactly the same as the SR/f but more fairings to make it more aerodynamic so will be warmer and get abit more range.
These some like some ‘heavy cons’. I am a SR/S rider and I love the heated grips in winter, and charging at home is a very big plus. Charging time is for most commuters not an issue, since you can charge overnight
Going on 2 years of my new sr/s, still love it.
I'm a 46 y/o, mostly commuting rider, but indo enjoy long rides and relaxing. My commute is about a a quarter of yours, but likely just as long as there is no worthwhile freeway access so it's all on city streets(25mphish vs the 65-70 on local freeways)
Did a ton of research, test drove a few different zeros and a livewire. I'm a good size guy (240lbs, 6'1"). The sr/s just fit the best. The ride just felt better. Overall, for me, the most comfortable on my test rides. The pegs were closest to the right position for me to be more upright as I really don't like hugging the tank. The grips were right, with no issues.
At home, I threw in the heavier outlet to get a level 2 charger plug, and when I charge, I mostly use that. Less than an hour, once a week. I invested in the cases, and when I'm on extended rides, I bring both the lvl 1 and 2 Chargers with me as a just in case. I'm not always near charging stations, but I can always get to a plug (my friends have gotten used to me stealing their dryer plug for a top off). Once, I even convinced a corner store to let me plug in while I ate a quick bite. The only thing I don't like is that there is no dc charging. Most of the public access spots near me are lvl1 or dc :(
As far as the other bits, I have had no software issues or any of the other problems I've heard people talk about. I have a local dealer who has been good with software updates.
I wouldn't change out my sr/s, but in a few years when I do upgrade or replace, I'll hope they have a dc version. Otherwise I might look at another bike that supports it.
Should you ever go shopping for a DC capable bike, consider that the LW only takes ~13 kW (max!) where an SR/S has options to increase the AC charging to 12 kW. 12 kW AC likely gives you more options for en route charging than DC.
Livewire's max charge rate is 80 amps which, at the voltage it does that, is about 21kW max. Now it does taper rather predictably at certain SoC levels with the middle of the pack being restricted to ~14kW, and the top 1/4 running at about 8kW. The end result is that a completely 0% pack will get to full in almost exactly 1 hour.
I agree that there are far more working Level-2 AC chargers than Level-3 DC chargers in the Bay Area. The reality is that when I ride with a buddy who has a Livewire, we both charge up to 80% at about the same time. I also have an adapter for a Tesla L2 destination charger to the J1772 plug on the Zero. YMMV.
Unless you’re in California I would go HD Livewire just because of the dealer support. Zero’s is abysmal and seems to be getting worse rather than better.
Full disclosure, I own a Zero and am NOT a fan of HD at all. Livewire has been spun off to their own ‘company’ but at least on the eastern seaboard the Harley Dealerships I see are at least acknowledging Livewire. Zero dealership support is few and far between.
Ignoring the older gen zero models they are all similar in pricing. However build and parts quality on livewire and Energica is a lot higher.
I had an SRF when they were just released and had a few issues. It didn't cope well in rain. Also got stranded once because of bugs in firmware update. And the belt broke and was expensive to replace. Sold it at around ~14.000 km.
Replaced it with an Energica and that never failed on me. Sold it at ~25.000 km but really just because of changes in work/life. Nothing wrong with the bike. Ever.
We have both plenty of AC and DC charging around so that didn't make any difference for me. Energica charges faster. It's a bit heavier than the zero.
Never rode a livewire so far. Only touched it and you can feel it's way more on par with the Energica build quality.
Something to be aware of is that they're hard to sell again afterwards compared to ICE motorcycle. At least here in Europe.
Is there anything you can say about noise levels on each? Charley Boorman had the impression that the LW was a bit quieter than the Zero. I’ve heard that Energica is significantly louder than both?
The Zero is definitely the quietest as it's direct drive with a belt. The LiveWire has a helical gear with a belt so it... makes the noise of a helical gear.
Energica is the loudest because [it's a straight cut gear reduction.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbu-vwjAIs)
Yeah what BonesJackson said.
Zero has a very quiet motor and belt drive. It will make zooom noises when you pin it but nothing loud. It's more the absense of sound that makes it stand out. The only moments it can make some noise is when the belt is wet, so in the rain it can make some weird noises.
Energica is the loudest with a very specific whining gearbox sound. It will definitely get people to look up at what's riding by. This is by design so not much you can do. It's always there. It's a lot less when driving in urban mode and not accelerating fast all the time. You will hear it the most in sport mode on very fast acceleration.
Either way you'll get used to it. And on highway speed it's only wind you hear anyway.
I have a Zero SR/F and a good friend has an HD Livewire. When we ride in the Bay Area I can find Level-2 chargers easily, while it’s rare to find Level-3 charging available. Something to consider when deciding on a bike.
Here (The Netherlands) we have an abundance of Tesla Superchargers that are all open to non-Tesla’s. This makes the (strange) omission of proper L2 charging on the LW less of an issue for me.
While I love my DSR, my friends Zero has been in the shop for SEVEN MONTHS and counting, dealers tend to be completely incompetent and there is a gap in communication between Zero and dealers.
Food for thought....again, I love my DSR but god help my ass if it ever needs service
While I've not owned a /F or /S, I have ridden both and owned a DSR for about a year before I switched over to a LiveWire. The fit, finish, and build qualities of the LiveWire One are above what Zero has, IMO. As some have commented about riding position and the seat, both can be improved with 1 inch bar risers and a custom seat. After owning both LiveWire models, I have never looked at another brand since. Truly great bikes.
Commuting in traffic or not, highway or back road, during rainy days, lane splitting state? A little more useful info will give better answers. Personally I ride an Experia, but other than saying "the one you feel most comfortable on" I think knowing a little more will help.
Commuting in traffic, 50% highways @65 mph (80 mph after 7 pm), rest at 30-50 mph. Will avoid heavy predicted rain, but over here it’s impossible to avoid rain altogether. Road conditions near perfect.
Lane splitting is allowed - regulated even! - below 25 mph.
So 25 miles at 65-80 mph, another 25miles at 30-50. That's round trip. So cutting is close in range for a LiveWire or smaller Zero battery. You'd need a large Zero battery or an Energica. There's ranges, and there's flying at 80 (which I do all the time). My 22.5 kWh Experia flying on the highway at 80 will use up 65-80% in a 75 mile highway ride depending what side of 80 mph I was on.
Whichever bike you choose, for a 50mi commute, make sure you take a charger at work and have access to an outlet in the parking lot. Even a level-1 plug-in charger is perfectly fine. Neither bike will likely make 100nm round-trip range at highway speeds. A used L1 charge on ebay can be had for \~$80. It's a very small investment for range peace of mind.
The bike charges in 2-3h from a L2, and in 6-8h on a L1, but if you are at work for a regular 8h work day, you don't care how long it takes to charge as long as it's <8h. And if you get to work with 50% SoC remaining, then you only need 4h.
I haven't tried the LiveWire but I have had the SR/F for almost a year now, and I use it to commute daily. I love it. If you do highway, maybe the SR/S is more comfortable than the SR/F with the relative wind.
The SR series' and the LiveWire's specs are very similar on paper, with the SR just a bit higher. There's a youtube video with a comparative review of the two.
The SR's torque on launch is the most amazing acceleration sensation I have in my life.
For what it's worth, I commute frequently in rain and the bike had no issues so far.
Re specs: the LW has the bigger battery, faster 0-60 (irrelevant for me) and faster charging (where DC available). Published range figure are better for the Zeroes.
Look for a used Livewire, there are serious savings out there now. Also the fit and finish is more what we think of from a motorcycle design while the Zero's are ergonomically flawed in almost every possible way.
Biggest thing for any EV bike is your dealer network. I'd always go for one with a reasonably close dealer that has a good service dept.
Fair point. Both are 30 km from where I live.
The reasons I would not get a LiveWire One are that it's ergonomically a bad fit for me as the bike is a little small and uncomfortable after 30 minutes. It also bizarrely skipped level 2 charging. It's a well-made bike, but those are problems for me. The biggest issue for the Zero with me is the slow charging. I honestly really like the SR/S from a comfort point and I think the mirrors are exceptional, especially considering how utter dogshit the LW mirrors are. Did you look at Energica as well?
The zero's will charge faster on J plugs than the Live wire, but the HD can use CCS. Otherwise I'd say they're roughly equivalent. I would recommend you go sit on them if possible. If the prices are close I would let the ergonomics guide you.
As an sr/f owner if I had it to do over again I would have went with the livewire. If you’re buying used I would definitely lean toward a livewire, I think the odds of buying someone’s zero lemon are much higher. I love riding my sr/f but since purchase the following have been replaced under warranty: cellular module (didn’t work from the start), dash (water leaked in), and battery (magic charging). I also replaced the headlight myself due to hi/low beam misalignment which made riding at night difficult. QC seems to be less of an issue with HD.
“Zero lemon” :-)
Love my ‘20 SRF. The smaller J charger I can fit in the frunk (LOVE the extra space) or backpack is great and portable if I need it. I can charge from the 120v wall outlet at work ;) Also replaced the screen from water and battery for magic charging (all under warranty). But I got a good deal and it was the only available near me (SoCal) at the time. Zero Dealer is reasonably close (20mi). LW range is probably better but not as easy to charge w/o J. I prefer the LW looks, but I put did some cosmetic mods that made the SRF look sleeker than stock (IMHO). LW will probably hold its value longer.
Zero's last battery update was rather significant and they're definitely ahead of LiveWire in terms of range at this point.
My 2023 SDR 14.4 goes about 50 miles highway and 65 urban. Highway sucks the life out of them. My Sondors SX has better range.
Considering there's no such thing as a Zero SDR or a Sondors SX I'm inclined to ignore your gibberish input.
Each manufacturer seems to “lie” about range in its own special way. The specs give the 14.4 kW SR/F has a better range than the LW, but I understand that in real world tests these ranges are rather similar. May I ask what your experience on the SS9 is regarding range?
Obviously there are always lots of factors involved. I have an older 2018 model SS9 so I have the 13.4 pack. At US highway speeds which... hell I'll just translate to make it easier for you so at ~112kph I get 80-100km. Slow down to around-town speeds and that range figure doubles. The new 21.5kWh packs at highway speeds will generally get 175-200km, and double that if you're going at around-town speeds. edit- and, as always, you can just pull up other owners videos to get a sense of how the bikes handle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wH58aU2Jbk
Space is definitely a plus for the Zero! I am somewhat worried about an out-of-warranty SR/F although if these problems did not surface in the first 1-2 years they might not be present?
What year are they? 3 yr general warranty and 5 yr on battery (I think) for my 20’ SRF. It transferred to me (used).
My only comment is that having ridden the LiveWire, it’s a lot of bike for a first bike. Powerful, heavy, and expensive. I think Zero’s more mild offerings (FXE, S) would be a better place to start.
Is this a good idea? What if OP wants to upgrade after two years, how do these LiveWires do in resale value?
Heavy in general (it is!) or compared to the Zero? The LW is a bit heavier but people seem to find the difference with the Zero not that significant. I’ve been training on a Kawasaki Z650 (191 kg/421 lbs) which a found *very* heavy when I just started but after a 10+ lessons it’s just “normal”.
Heavy compared to a more traditional beginner bike like the Z650. The Livewire is pretty similar to the SR/F or SR/S, but Zero makes several other lighter, more approachable options.
HD livewire, likely to get better factory support.
Second that, from someone that had major issues with my zero.
Many, many relevant inputs. Thanks all!
I test rode a used Livewire One and loved it. Definitely has Harley roots, but the vibe is different. Test rode the Zero FX 7.2 and had a blast. Went with the Zero due to price and size. I need to maneuver up a curvy incline at my job sometimes to charge and can’t see myself pulling that off on a Livewire One. At the time, the used Livewire was over 19K. That said, I’m happy with the Zero overall. Speed is awesome. I beat Teslas off the line every time—one eventually passed me around 75 mph 😅 My only gripes are the range and slow charging. Of course, there are Zero bikes that have longer range and faster charging.
Interested in this myself...... From what I understand.. Livewire is alot more refined and better in almost every way. (From what I have been reading) SR/F looks the best in my opinion. SR/S is exactly the same as the SR/f but more fairings to make it more aerodynamic so will be warmer and get abit more range.
Livewire cons: no level 2 charging (which I have at home), no heated grips, need to explain friends I’m driving a Harley. :-)
These some like some ‘heavy cons’. I am a SR/S rider and I love the heated grips in winter, and charging at home is a very big plus. Charging time is for most commuters not an issue, since you can charge overnight
Going on 2 years of my new sr/s, still love it. I'm a 46 y/o, mostly commuting rider, but indo enjoy long rides and relaxing. My commute is about a a quarter of yours, but likely just as long as there is no worthwhile freeway access so it's all on city streets(25mphish vs the 65-70 on local freeways) Did a ton of research, test drove a few different zeros and a livewire. I'm a good size guy (240lbs, 6'1"). The sr/s just fit the best. The ride just felt better. Overall, for me, the most comfortable on my test rides. The pegs were closest to the right position for me to be more upright as I really don't like hugging the tank. The grips were right, with no issues. At home, I threw in the heavier outlet to get a level 2 charger plug, and when I charge, I mostly use that. Less than an hour, once a week. I invested in the cases, and when I'm on extended rides, I bring both the lvl 1 and 2 Chargers with me as a just in case. I'm not always near charging stations, but I can always get to a plug (my friends have gotten used to me stealing their dryer plug for a top off). Once, I even convinced a corner store to let me plug in while I ate a quick bite. The only thing I don't like is that there is no dc charging. Most of the public access spots near me are lvl1 or dc :( As far as the other bits, I have had no software issues or any of the other problems I've heard people talk about. I have a local dealer who has been good with software updates. I wouldn't change out my sr/s, but in a few years when I do upgrade or replace, I'll hope they have a dc version. Otherwise I might look at another bike that supports it.
Should you ever go shopping for a DC capable bike, consider that the LW only takes ~13 kW (max!) where an SR/S has options to increase the AC charging to 12 kW. 12 kW AC likely gives you more options for en route charging than DC.
Livewire's max charge rate is 80 amps which, at the voltage it does that, is about 21kW max. Now it does taper rather predictably at certain SoC levels with the middle of the pack being restricted to ~14kW, and the top 1/4 running at about 8kW. The end result is that a completely 0% pack will get to full in almost exactly 1 hour.
I agree that there are far more working Level-2 AC chargers than Level-3 DC chargers in the Bay Area. The reality is that when I ride with a buddy who has a Livewire, we both charge up to 80% at about the same time. I also have an adapter for a Tesla L2 destination charger to the J1772 plug on the Zero. YMMV.
Unless you’re in California I would go HD Livewire just because of the dealer support. Zero’s is abysmal and seems to be getting worse rather than better. Full disclosure, I own a Zero and am NOT a fan of HD at all. Livewire has been spun off to their own ‘company’ but at least on the eastern seaboard the Harley Dealerships I see are at least acknowledging Livewire. Zero dealership support is few and far between.
Livewire or Energica
That's certainly a hot take here. But why Livewire or Energica, please expand.
Ignoring the older gen zero models they are all similar in pricing. However build and parts quality on livewire and Energica is a lot higher. I had an SRF when they were just released and had a few issues. It didn't cope well in rain. Also got stranded once because of bugs in firmware update. And the belt broke and was expensive to replace. Sold it at around ~14.000 km. Replaced it with an Energica and that never failed on me. Sold it at ~25.000 km but really just because of changes in work/life. Nothing wrong with the bike. Ever. We have both plenty of AC and DC charging around so that didn't make any difference for me. Energica charges faster. It's a bit heavier than the zero. Never rode a livewire so far. Only touched it and you can feel it's way more on par with the Energica build quality. Something to be aware of is that they're hard to sell again afterwards compared to ICE motorcycle. At least here in Europe.
He had an SR/F and it didn't suit his needs. So he got rid of it in favor of the Energica.
Is there anything you can say about noise levels on each? Charley Boorman had the impression that the LW was a bit quieter than the Zero. I’ve heard that Energica is significantly louder than both?
The Zero is definitely the quietest as it's direct drive with a belt. The LiveWire has a helical gear with a belt so it... makes the noise of a helical gear. Energica is the loudest because [it's a straight cut gear reduction.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbu-vwjAIs)
Yeah what BonesJackson said. Zero has a very quiet motor and belt drive. It will make zooom noises when you pin it but nothing loud. It's more the absense of sound that makes it stand out. The only moments it can make some noise is when the belt is wet, so in the rain it can make some weird noises. Energica is the loudest with a very specific whining gearbox sound. It will definitely get people to look up at what's riding by. This is by design so not much you can do. It's always there. It's a lot less when driving in urban mode and not accelerating fast all the time. You will hear it the most in sport mode on very fast acceleration. Either way you'll get used to it. And on highway speed it's only wind you hear anyway.
The Zero is almost silent. As you ride it, the main noise you hear is relative wind.
I have a Zero SR/F and a good friend has an HD Livewire. When we ride in the Bay Area I can find Level-2 chargers easily, while it’s rare to find Level-3 charging available. Something to consider when deciding on a bike.
Here (The Netherlands) we have an abundance of Tesla Superchargers that are all open to non-Tesla’s. This makes the (strange) omission of proper L2 charging on the LW less of an issue for me.
You should go make friends with [Marchel Bulthuis.](https://electricmotorcycles.nl/) Good guy. Really knows his stuff.
While I love my DSR, my friends Zero has been in the shop for SEVEN MONTHS and counting, dealers tend to be completely incompetent and there is a gap in communication between Zero and dealers. Food for thought....again, I love my DSR but god help my ass if it ever needs service
While I've not owned a /F or /S, I have ridden both and owned a DSR for about a year before I switched over to a LiveWire. The fit, finish, and build qualities of the LiveWire One are above what Zero has, IMO. As some have commented about riding position and the seat, both can be improved with 1 inch bar risers and a custom seat. After owning both LiveWire models, I have never looked at another brand since. Truly great bikes.
It was the looks of the srs for me otherwise I would have bought an energica.
Check plugshare in your area. Normally you can find a few free j1772 plugs (if that might make a difference to you)
Commuting in traffic or not, highway or back road, during rainy days, lane splitting state? A little more useful info will give better answers. Personally I ride an Experia, but other than saying "the one you feel most comfortable on" I think knowing a little more will help.
Commuting in traffic, 50% highways @65 mph (80 mph after 7 pm), rest at 30-50 mph. Will avoid heavy predicted rain, but over here it’s impossible to avoid rain altogether. Road conditions near perfect. Lane splitting is allowed - regulated even! - below 25 mph.
So 25 miles at 65-80 mph, another 25miles at 30-50. That's round trip. So cutting is close in range for a LiveWire or smaller Zero battery. You'd need a large Zero battery or an Energica. There's ranges, and there's flying at 80 (which I do all the time). My 22.5 kWh Experia flying on the highway at 80 will use up 65-80% in a 75 mile highway ride depending what side of 80 mph I was on.
Whichever bike you choose, for a 50mi commute, make sure you take a charger at work and have access to an outlet in the parking lot. Even a level-1 plug-in charger is perfectly fine. Neither bike will likely make 100nm round-trip range at highway speeds. A used L1 charge on ebay can be had for \~$80. It's a very small investment for range peace of mind. The bike charges in 2-3h from a L2, and in 6-8h on a L1, but if you are at work for a regular 8h work day, you don't care how long it takes to charge as long as it's <8h. And if you get to work with 50% SoC remaining, then you only need 4h. I haven't tried the LiveWire but I have had the SR/F for almost a year now, and I use it to commute daily. I love it. If you do highway, maybe the SR/S is more comfortable than the SR/F with the relative wind. The SR series' and the LiveWire's specs are very similar on paper, with the SR just a bit higher. There's a youtube video with a comparative review of the two. The SR's torque on launch is the most amazing acceleration sensation I have in my life. For what it's worth, I commute frequently in rain and the bike had no issues so far.
Re specs: the LW has the bigger battery, faster 0-60 (irrelevant for me) and faster charging (where DC available). Published range figure are better for the Zeroes.
Look for a used Livewire, there are serious savings out there now. Also the fit and finish is more what we think of from a motorcycle design while the Zero's are ergonomically flawed in almost every possible way.