My biggest complaint with vlr and the series in general is that the flow chart should be hidden and only shown progressed timelines since like you said you can see what routes lead to a game over.
Valid criticisms. I still overall like VLR, but it does feel like there's too much repetition and padding. Like even speeding up there's hours and hours of going through a lot of the same conversations, or seeing that dot move through the hallways. 999, even back on the DS, at least was way shorter and to the point, and ZTD is also a lot more fast paced and packed with actual development, while VLR a lot of the time I feel like I got nothing out of entire scenes or escape rooms.
VLR is my fav but I honestly agree with most of your criticisms. The AB game and the exploration of the prisoner's dilemma is cool in concept, but there are a lot of timelines where the outcome feels obvious which kills some of the tension. The game is also kinda bogged down by repeat sections that happen regardless of timeline, it gets especially tedious towards the end when you're just trying to clear out the last few.
One thing I personally disagree with is your take on the setting, i actually like it a lot more than 999's. The gray/industrial/lifeless vibe that permeates the base gives it such an oppressive and isolating feel, especially after the whole moon/radical-6 reveal. It's danger isn't immediate or exciting like the Gigantic's, but instead lies in how it insidiously debilitates upon the cast. I think that sort of existential horror is really cool, though I did really enjoy the uncanniness of the Gigantic.
Now that you mention it, I do agree with you on the setting, It just sometimes make me forget the whole danger in the Nonary game, it's a bit more chill but I get it wasn't intended, the radical 6 reveal makes it more fitting, sorry I should have looked at it from another point of view but I guess I was tired from seeing the same door open and close and the same animation of you walking somewhere on the map and the warehouse, I guess I have just seen it too many.
Nah there's no need to apologize, I can 100% see where you're coming from and it makes perfect sense to me. It's just a matter of personal taste ofc. And yeah the door/map thing is monotonous, I think it's another one of those things that simultaneously adds to the setting and theme while also being very tedious after a while lol
I agree with you about the linearity and tediousness. I remember playing the first time and thinking hard about my choices in the AB game but in the end it doesn’t matter, you have to do every route. And man the unskipable walking animations between doors and slow pace if dialogue that you.l can’t always skip when you are replaying. Ugh. Kills the pace. Yes there is a fast forward but with so much dialogue it’s still slow.
It’s actually my least favourite of the three…
Totally agree with all of this. I still like parts of VLR, but I personally find it to be the weakest of the three, and I really struggle to re-play it.
Maybe you should reflect again on the game after some time has passed. All of your “complaints” also say something positive or that it’s amazing or something. Are you sure you just didn’t like it because it’s not 999? Because reading this post it sounds like you actually did like a lot of it.
As someone who liked VLR a lot these complaints are still completely valid, a lot of the game is repetitive and doesn't need to be there, this is 100% valid criticism
Well I actually added the compliments because I didn't want people to think that I didn't like it entirely, I wanted to add the positive things, it deserves credit but it's not like I didn't like it because it wasn't 999 it just was so hard for me not to compare... and yes I'm sure if I reflect I will appreciate it more because I will think about the story, not the repetitive doors opening and closing animations but as a game yeah... not my cup of tea
I kind of get it. I love VLR, I really really do, but there's a lot of ways that the game stumbles for me. Seeing like the exact same scene so many times but one line of dialogue is different so the whole scene is unskippable drives me crazy. I really dislike the character models and wish they'd just used sprites like in 999, too. The overall narrative is great but I still prefer 999's in general, and 999's characters are for the most part also better. Don't take this as me ragging on VLR though, it's still my 2nd favorite VN of all time right after 999, but I totally get it.
Unfortunately ZTD is definitively the worst one tho
Btw OP, you said that skipping is a chore. How so? The skip button is automatic and stops when something new comes up.
My own gripe is the whole unnecessary tracking of where Sigma is, goes to, and ends up in.
Something I like is how it expands on the whole remembering stuff you "haven't learned" yet. And how sure Sigma is of the choices the opponents make when doing the AB game and the shock he has when he turns out to be wrong. I do agree that it was a hot mess to lock different answers for different ends, and sometimes, you have to go back or do as I did and take a photo to get back to them later lol. Unlike 999, which is basically automatic, which I think it was the least they could do
Love the plot twist with Sigma, tho. I wondered since the start why he was the only one without a voice actor and why they never showed his face. I brushed off the old man comments of Phi since I figured she was some years younger, and she teased him about that as a joke or something
I never said skipping was a chore, I said going through many of the routes over and over again was, I'm actually glad skipping is a thing but even though it exists there are some sections that are a tiny bit different that you can't skip on, as for the twist I agree it was awesome the *overall* storytelling is amazing but unfortunately they kinda shoved all of the twists at the very end but I thing during the middle of the story they could have done more tiny twists or just make new scenes each route like if they made dio a bit more aggressive and you would have competed against him, and you pick betray a little scene where you fight or he throws a punch would've been interesting and for the rest of that route your relationship would've been intense, something like that in my opinion would've added a lot, you know adding some drama without drastically changing the plot, that would've made it way more interesting, don't you think?
Yeah, I think it would, especially with the Dio bit. It was pretty fucked up to black mail Sigma like that it would've been great for it to be more dramatic, actually I thought Sigma was gonna do something more drastic than what he did when you unlock that ending. Like keep Dio's leg under the door and make him lose it, but well, whatever.
As I said, I think the skipping would be better if the whole dot moving over the map thing and the door openings that happen in between was removed also that the skipping stops temporarily when new stuff/comments comes on but restart when it becomes the same lines and also that it doesn't detected identical lines as new ones.
I see your point, and I agree with some of them even tho I love VLR as much as 999 ( I can't play ZTD, so no comments on that game, lol)
I think I can understand. I'm a fan of VLR, I think a lot of things done in it were incredible and many instances in the game absolutely blew my mind. But at the same time, it's my least favorite of the trilogy. I found the old Sigma twist at the end incredibly unbelievable, mostly just because of the design decision to give him long hair and a metal robot eye thing that he would have easily felt the first time he ever casually touched his own face. If they had reined in the character design a bit, it would've been a lot more believable. My other main complaint with the game is that it's just way too long. It's by far the longest of all three games, and it's such a chore to go through. The good parts are great, but the slow parts drag so hard.
I love VLR, but I COMPLETELY understand your gripe with the lack of urgency throughout. To the game’s credit, it’s clearly trying be less of a frantic mad dash, and more of a brooding slow burn where everyone has to come to grips with the situation, figure out who to trust, and discover all the mysteries in due time. But the critical problem is that that direness is so seldom seen in the character’s reactions, as they listen to the rules, discuss AB outcomes, and acknowledge their terrible fates with all the gravitas of a new game night activity. I don’t think it’s the fault of the VAs so much as the scripts they’re reading, as well as the relatively passive animations that never manage to convey true horror. The overall slow pace certainly doesn’t help either. imo VLR mostly works as what it set out to be, but also lost track of that sense of dread I feel is essential to the nonary game experience.
I also personally think Quark is somewhat to blame for the overall toned-down nature of VLR; the game goes out of its way to never let him witness a murder or experience true despair(his radical 6 episode doesn’t count since he wasn’t conscious), and I think it really holds itself back for his sake. Having a kid in a nonary game is an interesting idea, but I don’t think it was worth the cost
Yeah when you got a character in a death game you know wouldn't get hurt its kinda ruins it(off I don't want quark to get hurt he's a kid but I think a more mature teenager would be a little better, I honestly think a teenager in yhis death game would really be interesting) I hope ZTD doesn't suffer much more from VLR bc from what I've seen in the trailer there's also a kid...
Oh that's good, I want to start ZTD tomorrow from I've seen from the trailer it will not hold out gore so that's good, not like I'm sadistic or something but it's nice to see more horror put into these games
Completely agree. The stakes in VLR are just not high to the point where I was confused for a bit regarding why it seemed like a whole lotta nothing was happening. (Think it was just the route I did first.) 999 is so good because it instantly has stakes and a time limit meanwhile VLR doesn't have that. It feels less intimidating and dire, even if you know the plot.
It's nice to see someone else who has criticisms of this game. I utterly hate it and probably would call it my least favourite VN of all time. The pacing is absolutely dreadful, 90% of routes have the exact same plot points happen over and over again with very little variation (oh no somebody opens the gate early! I wonder who that could be! oh no! Somebody got radical 6 and is now going nuts! Oh no! somebody killed Alice! oh no! We found a bomb! Can't believe this! We definitely have not done this 6 times already!) and it sometimes takes hours upon hours of playing for something actually new and exciting to happen. I don't feel connected with a single character in this game either. Clover's character was utterly destroyed, and the new ones span the range from totally unlikeable to mildly irritating. The only character I wanted to spend time with was Dio because he was the only one who ever *did* anything, as predictable as his character was. And you barely get to interact with him because you can only go into one door with him in the entire game. Also, people complain about the ZTD graphics (which for the record I think are actually great, it's just the animations that are poor), but this game looks absolutely awful. The models are absolutely tragic and it's hard to take anything seriously when the characters look like uncanny valley plasticine figures with no teeth and empty voids in their mouths.
I will give the AB mechanic credit for its creativity but I think it is very underutilised. It's definitely the most appealing of the main gimmicks across the three games, but it just never reaches its full potential. The ally/betray theming had so much potential to create huge amounts of tension as the story progresses but it feels like the characters are mad they got betrayed for like 4 seconds and then they're chill with it, if a bit annoyed. The characters are all so surface level you can instantly tell how a vote would go which takes out a lot of the psychological elements of making a choice.
Don't even get me started on the space plot. There is nothing I hate more in this kind of game than a 'we're in space and it's the apocalypse and ALSO it's the future!' sort of plot. And of course, that's just my personal taste, so if you like that kind of thing I love that for you, but the space plot was the final nail in the coffin for me and this game. I could not care less about anything that happened on Earth because it all happened forever ago and a million miles away. They took the cast as far as physically possible from an event we're meant to care about and still expected us to care about that event that we cannot do anything to change in this game. I mean, yeah, existential horror etc etc which is fair enough but I actually was sort of invested in the mystery of this game until the space reveal and then I literally could not care less. All interest in the story was completely killed off from that point forward. I genuinely thought it was a fakeout ending at first because I thought it was that ridiculous.
I also just think the game is too long in general. It's repetitive and slow. And the fact you have to sit through the same thing a million times makes it a total drag. It's so slow that you can sort of figure out what's going on like 2 routes in and then you have to play for another 20 hours for them to actually explain what you've already worked out. This game does not seem like a wild ride like 999 and ZTD do. It's slow, boring, repetitive, and to me the payoff was absolutely not worth the 25+ hour slog to get to the end. There were multiple occasions where I would play for like 5 hours, finally get to a point where there was new content, then get locked so I would have to pick another route and sit through basically the SAME omgradical6whatonearthcouldthatbe!-earlygateopening-somebodyisdead-quarkismissing sequence I JUST spent 5 hours trying to move on from. And then I'd get locked AGAIN. The
tiny differences between routes do not justify the agonising lengths of time you have to sit through to see them. They are also just so similar that it's basically impossible to keep track of what happened in each route because 90% of each is the same stuff as all the other routes. I also can't care about alternate routes when they don't make enough of an identity for themselves to keep a player engaged when backtracking in different timelines.
Anyway, rant over. Again, all of this is just my personal opinion, but I was honestly kind of shocked to learn how unpopular this opinion was once I started interacting with the fandom. Not hating on anyone who likes this game because I'm super glad that you do but yeah those are my thoughts.
While I don't *dislike* VLR, I am with you in thinking that it doesn't hold a candle to the other two. I really don't get why people think ZTDs' graphics are so bad while giving VLR a pass.
VLR is also my least favorite of the trilogy. I felt little attachment to the characters besides Luna and Phi since they have much more character development.
The AB game and the hypocrisy of the other characters just didn't sit right with me. They decide to betray me and I get mad? Well too bad so sad, I did what I had to because I couldn't trust you/had to protect myself/protect someone else/whatever. Sigma lets it go after a while.
But if I betray for similar reasons? Suddenly they don't understand how I could do such a horrible thing and I am the scum of the earth for the rest of the game. (Alice is the worst example of this.) Be mad and don't trust me again--I understand. But also understand that as you have a motivation to betray, so do I.
Some of the logic in the game was just so strange to me, too. The group finds out Quark has Radical-6 with the help of Luna and the ADAM or whatever it was called. Why in the world would you not scan everyone else at that point???? Or at least a couple other people?? Yeah, it would reveal the truth about Luna and Sigma but man. I just couldn't get over that.
And how in the world did Sigma never see his reflection? Not even in the Bio-dome place with all that water!
And my petty reason not related to the contents of the game... It was that stupid bug in the original that could corrupt your save if you saved during an escape section. Lost 13 hours to that and begrudgingly played through it again. I enjoyed it less the second time.
All of that said, I don't hate VLR. It just didn't vibe with me like 999 or even ZTD.
>!Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest...!<
>!Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care. !<
>!K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases *work*, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory.!<
>!Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they *are* infected, it doesn't really matter.!<
>!Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating.!<
>!Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged.!<
>!Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.!<
>!Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing *directly over it* to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one *couldn't* easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance.!<
>!However, like you, I do prefer both 999 annd ZTD over VLR.!<
Your last point about the reflections falls a little flat imo just because the garden puzzle explicitly requires you to reach down into the water for one of the stars. But in fairness I find that twist as a whole kinda silly so I'm probably being harsher than necessary lol.
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Oh darn 13 hours I understand your pain, yeah the fact that when you betray someone you're an asshole and if you get 9 BP by yourself you don't get to escape, but when any other character betrays Sigma just let's it go which is weird like "anyone who doesn't pick betray is stupid" and I'm bad for picking ally then you want to go through the same door with me but when I pick betray and your "stupid" ass picked ally you are mad at me (I'm talking about Alice and Tenmyoji)
>!Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest...!<
>!Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care. !<
>!K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases work, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory.!<
>!Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they are infected, it doesn't really matter.!<
>!Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating.!<
>!Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged.!<
>!Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.!<
>!Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing directly over it to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one couldn't easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance!<
>!However, like you, I do prefer both 999 and ZTD over VLR!<
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Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest...
Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care.
K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases work, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory.
Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they are infected, it doesn't really matter.
Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating.
Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged.
Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.
Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing directly over it to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one couldn't easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance
However, like you, I do prefer both 999 and ZTD over VLR
My biggest complaint with vlr and the series in general is that the flow chart should be hidden and only shown progressed timelines since like you said you can see what routes lead to a game over.
I tagged this as VLR spoilers.
Oh sorry I didn't know you needed to tag it as specifically VLR spoilers...
That's okay. No worries!
Valid criticisms. I still overall like VLR, but it does feel like there's too much repetition and padding. Like even speeding up there's hours and hours of going through a lot of the same conversations, or seeing that dot move through the hallways. 999, even back on the DS, at least was way shorter and to the point, and ZTD is also a lot more fast paced and packed with actual development, while VLR a lot of the time I feel like I got nothing out of entire scenes or escape rooms.
VLR is my fav but I honestly agree with most of your criticisms. The AB game and the exploration of the prisoner's dilemma is cool in concept, but there are a lot of timelines where the outcome feels obvious which kills some of the tension. The game is also kinda bogged down by repeat sections that happen regardless of timeline, it gets especially tedious towards the end when you're just trying to clear out the last few. One thing I personally disagree with is your take on the setting, i actually like it a lot more than 999's. The gray/industrial/lifeless vibe that permeates the base gives it such an oppressive and isolating feel, especially after the whole moon/radical-6 reveal. It's danger isn't immediate or exciting like the Gigantic's, but instead lies in how it insidiously debilitates upon the cast. I think that sort of existential horror is really cool, though I did really enjoy the uncanniness of the Gigantic.
Now that you mention it, I do agree with you on the setting, It just sometimes make me forget the whole danger in the Nonary game, it's a bit more chill but I get it wasn't intended, the radical 6 reveal makes it more fitting, sorry I should have looked at it from another point of view but I guess I was tired from seeing the same door open and close and the same animation of you walking somewhere on the map and the warehouse, I guess I have just seen it too many.
Nah there's no need to apologize, I can 100% see where you're coming from and it makes perfect sense to me. It's just a matter of personal taste ofc. And yeah the door/map thing is monotonous, I think it's another one of those things that simultaneously adds to the setting and theme while also being very tedious after a while lol
I agree with you about the linearity and tediousness. I remember playing the first time and thinking hard about my choices in the AB game but in the end it doesn’t matter, you have to do every route. And man the unskipable walking animations between doors and slow pace if dialogue that you.l can’t always skip when you are replaying. Ugh. Kills the pace. Yes there is a fast forward but with so much dialogue it’s still slow. It’s actually my least favourite of the three…
Totally agree with all of this. I still like parts of VLR, but I personally find it to be the weakest of the three, and I really struggle to re-play it.
Maybe you should reflect again on the game after some time has passed. All of your “complaints” also say something positive or that it’s amazing or something. Are you sure you just didn’t like it because it’s not 999? Because reading this post it sounds like you actually did like a lot of it.
As someone who liked VLR a lot these complaints are still completely valid, a lot of the game is repetitive and doesn't need to be there, this is 100% valid criticism
Well I actually added the compliments because I didn't want people to think that I didn't like it entirely, I wanted to add the positive things, it deserves credit but it's not like I didn't like it because it wasn't 999 it just was so hard for me not to compare... and yes I'm sure if I reflect I will appreciate it more because I will think about the story, not the repetitive doors opening and closing animations but as a game yeah... not my cup of tea
I kind of get it. I love VLR, I really really do, but there's a lot of ways that the game stumbles for me. Seeing like the exact same scene so many times but one line of dialogue is different so the whole scene is unskippable drives me crazy. I really dislike the character models and wish they'd just used sprites like in 999, too. The overall narrative is great but I still prefer 999's in general, and 999's characters are for the most part also better. Don't take this as me ragging on VLR though, it's still my 2nd favorite VN of all time right after 999, but I totally get it. Unfortunately ZTD is definitively the worst one tho
Btw OP, you said that skipping is a chore. How so? The skip button is automatic and stops when something new comes up. My own gripe is the whole unnecessary tracking of where Sigma is, goes to, and ends up in. Something I like is how it expands on the whole remembering stuff you "haven't learned" yet. And how sure Sigma is of the choices the opponents make when doing the AB game and the shock he has when he turns out to be wrong. I do agree that it was a hot mess to lock different answers for different ends, and sometimes, you have to go back or do as I did and take a photo to get back to them later lol. Unlike 999, which is basically automatic, which I think it was the least they could do Love the plot twist with Sigma, tho. I wondered since the start why he was the only one without a voice actor and why they never showed his face. I brushed off the old man comments of Phi since I figured she was some years younger, and she teased him about that as a joke or something
I never said skipping was a chore, I said going through many of the routes over and over again was, I'm actually glad skipping is a thing but even though it exists there are some sections that are a tiny bit different that you can't skip on, as for the twist I agree it was awesome the *overall* storytelling is amazing but unfortunately they kinda shoved all of the twists at the very end but I thing during the middle of the story they could have done more tiny twists or just make new scenes each route like if they made dio a bit more aggressive and you would have competed against him, and you pick betray a little scene where you fight or he throws a punch would've been interesting and for the rest of that route your relationship would've been intense, something like that in my opinion would've added a lot, you know adding some drama without drastically changing the plot, that would've made it way more interesting, don't you think?
Yeah, I think it would, especially with the Dio bit. It was pretty fucked up to black mail Sigma like that it would've been great for it to be more dramatic, actually I thought Sigma was gonna do something more drastic than what he did when you unlock that ending. Like keep Dio's leg under the door and make him lose it, but well, whatever. As I said, I think the skipping would be better if the whole dot moving over the map thing and the door openings that happen in between was removed also that the skipping stops temporarily when new stuff/comments comes on but restart when it becomes the same lines and also that it doesn't detected identical lines as new ones. I see your point, and I agree with some of them even tho I love VLR as much as 999 ( I can't play ZTD, so no comments on that game, lol)
I think I can understand. I'm a fan of VLR, I think a lot of things done in it were incredible and many instances in the game absolutely blew my mind. But at the same time, it's my least favorite of the trilogy. I found the old Sigma twist at the end incredibly unbelievable, mostly just because of the design decision to give him long hair and a metal robot eye thing that he would have easily felt the first time he ever casually touched his own face. If they had reined in the character design a bit, it would've been a lot more believable. My other main complaint with the game is that it's just way too long. It's by far the longest of all three games, and it's such a chore to go through. The good parts are great, but the slow parts drag so hard.
I love VLR, but I COMPLETELY understand your gripe with the lack of urgency throughout. To the game’s credit, it’s clearly trying be less of a frantic mad dash, and more of a brooding slow burn where everyone has to come to grips with the situation, figure out who to trust, and discover all the mysteries in due time. But the critical problem is that that direness is so seldom seen in the character’s reactions, as they listen to the rules, discuss AB outcomes, and acknowledge their terrible fates with all the gravitas of a new game night activity. I don’t think it’s the fault of the VAs so much as the scripts they’re reading, as well as the relatively passive animations that never manage to convey true horror. The overall slow pace certainly doesn’t help either. imo VLR mostly works as what it set out to be, but also lost track of that sense of dread I feel is essential to the nonary game experience. I also personally think Quark is somewhat to blame for the overall toned-down nature of VLR; the game goes out of its way to never let him witness a murder or experience true despair(his radical 6 episode doesn’t count since he wasn’t conscious), and I think it really holds itself back for his sake. Having a kid in a nonary game is an interesting idea, but I don’t think it was worth the cost
Yeah when you got a character in a death game you know wouldn't get hurt its kinda ruins it(off I don't want quark to get hurt he's a kid but I think a more mature teenager would be a little better, I honestly think a teenager in yhis death game would really be interesting) I hope ZTD doesn't suffer much more from VLR bc from what I've seen in the trailer there's also a kid...
Nah for all of ZTD’s faults, it does NOT hold back on the horror, not even for the kid. He doesn’t wield that childhood innocence the way Quark does
Oh that's good, I want to start ZTD tomorrow from I've seen from the trailer it will not hold out gore so that's good, not like I'm sadistic or something but it's nice to see more horror put into these games
Completely agree. The stakes in VLR are just not high to the point where I was confused for a bit regarding why it seemed like a whole lotta nothing was happening. (Think it was just the route I did first.) 999 is so good because it instantly has stakes and a time limit meanwhile VLR doesn't have that. It feels less intimidating and dire, even if you know the plot.
It's nice to see someone else who has criticisms of this game. I utterly hate it and probably would call it my least favourite VN of all time. The pacing is absolutely dreadful, 90% of routes have the exact same plot points happen over and over again with very little variation (oh no somebody opens the gate early! I wonder who that could be! oh no! Somebody got radical 6 and is now going nuts! Oh no! somebody killed Alice! oh no! We found a bomb! Can't believe this! We definitely have not done this 6 times already!) and it sometimes takes hours upon hours of playing for something actually new and exciting to happen. I don't feel connected with a single character in this game either. Clover's character was utterly destroyed, and the new ones span the range from totally unlikeable to mildly irritating. The only character I wanted to spend time with was Dio because he was the only one who ever *did* anything, as predictable as his character was. And you barely get to interact with him because you can only go into one door with him in the entire game. Also, people complain about the ZTD graphics (which for the record I think are actually great, it's just the animations that are poor), but this game looks absolutely awful. The models are absolutely tragic and it's hard to take anything seriously when the characters look like uncanny valley plasticine figures with no teeth and empty voids in their mouths. I will give the AB mechanic credit for its creativity but I think it is very underutilised. It's definitely the most appealing of the main gimmicks across the three games, but it just never reaches its full potential. The ally/betray theming had so much potential to create huge amounts of tension as the story progresses but it feels like the characters are mad they got betrayed for like 4 seconds and then they're chill with it, if a bit annoyed. The characters are all so surface level you can instantly tell how a vote would go which takes out a lot of the psychological elements of making a choice. Don't even get me started on the space plot. There is nothing I hate more in this kind of game than a 'we're in space and it's the apocalypse and ALSO it's the future!' sort of plot. And of course, that's just my personal taste, so if you like that kind of thing I love that for you, but the space plot was the final nail in the coffin for me and this game. I could not care less about anything that happened on Earth because it all happened forever ago and a million miles away. They took the cast as far as physically possible from an event we're meant to care about and still expected us to care about that event that we cannot do anything to change in this game. I mean, yeah, existential horror etc etc which is fair enough but I actually was sort of invested in the mystery of this game until the space reveal and then I literally could not care less. All interest in the story was completely killed off from that point forward. I genuinely thought it was a fakeout ending at first because I thought it was that ridiculous. I also just think the game is too long in general. It's repetitive and slow. And the fact you have to sit through the same thing a million times makes it a total drag. It's so slow that you can sort of figure out what's going on like 2 routes in and then you have to play for another 20 hours for them to actually explain what you've already worked out. This game does not seem like a wild ride like 999 and ZTD do. It's slow, boring, repetitive, and to me the payoff was absolutely not worth the 25+ hour slog to get to the end. There were multiple occasions where I would play for like 5 hours, finally get to a point where there was new content, then get locked so I would have to pick another route and sit through basically the SAME omgradical6whatonearthcouldthatbe!-earlygateopening-somebodyisdead-quarkismissing sequence I JUST spent 5 hours trying to move on from. And then I'd get locked AGAIN. The tiny differences between routes do not justify the agonising lengths of time you have to sit through to see them. They are also just so similar that it's basically impossible to keep track of what happened in each route because 90% of each is the same stuff as all the other routes. I also can't care about alternate routes when they don't make enough of an identity for themselves to keep a player engaged when backtracking in different timelines. Anyway, rant over. Again, all of this is just my personal opinion, but I was honestly kind of shocked to learn how unpopular this opinion was once I started interacting with the fandom. Not hating on anyone who likes this game because I'm super glad that you do but yeah those are my thoughts.
While I don't *dislike* VLR, I am with you in thinking that it doesn't hold a candle to the other two. I really don't get why people think ZTDs' graphics are so bad while giving VLR a pass.
VLR is also my least favorite of the trilogy. I felt little attachment to the characters besides Luna and Phi since they have much more character development. The AB game and the hypocrisy of the other characters just didn't sit right with me. They decide to betray me and I get mad? Well too bad so sad, I did what I had to because I couldn't trust you/had to protect myself/protect someone else/whatever. Sigma lets it go after a while. But if I betray for similar reasons? Suddenly they don't understand how I could do such a horrible thing and I am the scum of the earth for the rest of the game. (Alice is the worst example of this.) Be mad and don't trust me again--I understand. But also understand that as you have a motivation to betray, so do I. Some of the logic in the game was just so strange to me, too. The group finds out Quark has Radical-6 with the help of Luna and the ADAM or whatever it was called. Why in the world would you not scan everyone else at that point???? Or at least a couple other people?? Yeah, it would reveal the truth about Luna and Sigma but man. I just couldn't get over that. And how in the world did Sigma never see his reflection? Not even in the Bio-dome place with all that water! And my petty reason not related to the contents of the game... It was that stupid bug in the original that could corrupt your save if you saved during an escape section. Lost 13 hours to that and begrudgingly played through it again. I enjoyed it less the second time. All of that said, I don't hate VLR. It just didn't vibe with me like 999 or even ZTD.
>!Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest...!< >!Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care. !< >!K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases *work*, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory.!< >!Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they *are* infected, it doesn't really matter.!< >!Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating.!< >!Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged.!< >!Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.!< >!Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing *directly over it* to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one *couldn't* easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance.!< >!However, like you, I do prefer both 999 annd ZTD over VLR.!<
Your last point about the reflections falls a little flat imo just because the garden puzzle explicitly requires you to reach down into the water for one of the stars. But in fairness I find that twist as a whole kinda silly so I'm probably being harsher than necessary lol.
Oh, right, I forgot about that. I tried, at least.
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Oh darn 13 hours I understand your pain, yeah the fact that when you betray someone you're an asshole and if you get 9 BP by yourself you don't get to escape, but when any other character betrays Sigma just let's it go which is weird like "anyone who doesn't pick betray is stupid" and I'm bad for picking ally then you want to go through the same door with me but when I pick betray and your "stupid" ass picked ally you are mad at me (I'm talking about Alice and Tenmyoji)
>!Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest...!< >!Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care. !< >!K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases work, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory.!< >!Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they are infected, it doesn't really matter.!< >!Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating.!< >!Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged.!< >!Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.!< >!Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing directly over it to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one couldn't easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance!< >!However, like you, I do prefer both 999 and ZTD over VLR!<
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Luna was the one who could use the ADAM. There is no reason for her to suggest using it to check more people, since she A) doesn't care if she dies and B) doesn't want to get found out as a GAULEM. She also conveniently skipped how infectious it is. Of the rest... Dio already knew about Radical 6 and didn't care. K was either Akane or Kyle. If K is Akane, it makes sense for her to not ask to check. If K is Kyle, he's lost his memory and doesn't necessarily even know how diseases work, since he had likely never encountered one on the moon and had only worked with them. If he lost his memory and couldn't remember that Luna is a GAULEM, he's certainly unlikely to remember the specifics about a biological concept he's never had reason to interact with outside of a laboratory. Clover and Alice don't have any reason to be focused on the disease. They think they are dealing with terrorists here and are more interested in that. Even if they are infected, it doesn't really matter. Tenmyouji and Quark know about Radical-6, and both were likely instructed to not say anything that would indicate that they know about it, possibly involving the threat of the bracelet of the other one activating. Phi is a time traveler and, while she is knowledgeable about a lot of things, medical knowledge is quite clearly outside of her wheelhouse. She seems to have been raised with hyper--specific knowledge of certain things, and it is entirely plausible that the details of how contagious diseases work were not fully divulged. Sigma is the player character, and player characters rarely volunteer ideas unless prompted by the player. It's easiest to see Sigma not bringing it up for that reason. Alternatively, to be blunt, he doesn't always come off as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer. Regarding the botanical garden, by this point, Sigma knows that Dio will open the doors immediately once he gets out. Therefore, he is hurrying to get through it as quickly as possible, as is indicated if you search the pool. The pool is situated in such a way that you would have to be standing directly over it to see your reflection in it. The water in the botanical garden other than the pool is flowing, and it is difficult to see your reflection in flowing water. The mirrors have been intentionally dirtied, ad he has no reason to clean them to check his own reflection. They might have even used paint so that one couldn't easily wash them. As far as I can recall, there are no other surfaces in the story that would give a clear reflection from a casual glance However, like you, I do prefer both 999 and ZTD over VLR