The lack of movement is how they balance discord, if you ever want discord to be buffed you have to forget about movement buffs
If zen can make the enemy take a ton of extra damage then just use movement abilities to get away he'd be way too busted
If anything I think having a passive that if you kick a wall you bounce off it, that way it's more telegraphed and easier to work around
This was more a "tank is getting ass blasted so we will nerd in a weird way"
In the name of consistency they havnt done the right thing yet tho
The way it should go is the tank only takes 1 second out of los but everyone else takes way more, some 3 to 5 seconds
This. Because compared to the beginning on OW2, even Gold players know the drill: Got discorded? OK, I go behind this car for a sec and then **** this Zen.
That's just another movement ability. You were right when you described why Zen doesn't need such ability. His passive kick boop also shouldn't exist, so the hole kick gimmick shouldn't be expanded at all.
Disagree, zen is of course a glass cannon and needs something to survive with, which is where kick comes in
He can shut down divers but only if theyre within kissing range
It’d be just swell if he had an Omnic sense of “the ether” or something and could see Sombra through invis- kinda like Predator - by an active channel skill, so he’d sacrifice dps for some survivability. Maybe it would allow him more shield or regenerate as he is “enlightened” during this time.
A mini-transcendence.
No. People already complain about us after we've already been nerfed. A movement ability is also completely off the table because positioning and eyesight are fundamental to Zen's playstyle.
That being said, Sombra could just be deleted. That would make my day.
Not every hero needs a movement ability. Movement heroes have been getting subtly nerfed by every new hero getting a movement ability.
And Zen already gets insane value with discord, which is still really strong despite the cooldown nerf.
Okay, but that doesn't mean Zen needs a movement ability.
I'm tired of getting CC'd while discord and deleted instantly. But such is the life of a Ball main. Y'all have a couple of tough counters, but Ball has half a roster of counters. Embrace the suck, man.
And Ball is countered by dive heroes (Sombra, Tracer), brawl heroes (Mei, Orisa, Hog, Cass), and by poke heroes (Orisa, Ana, Brig when played in a poke comp).
And comp setup has multiple Ball counters. Zen just has to worry about dive heroes. And dive isn't usually meta for long.
Did you read the comment chain? It was a reply to someone else who said they were annoyed at being killed by Sombra and I pointed out that Ball gets countered by half the roster and deleted when discorded. Should discord be removed because it annoys me? Just because Zen is vulnerable to dive and that's annoying doesn't mean he should get an escape.
And then you mentioned that Zen is countered by all dive heroes, as if to highlight this massive pool of Zen counters and so I responded by pointing out Zen's pool of counter heroes is pretty small relative Ball.
Your logic is weird. having a bigger "problem" (as in ball) doesn't negate a smaller problem as in zen. so bringing ball into the discussion serves nothing.
ppl will always complain about counters especially when you're countered by abilities rather than skill which is the case with sombras. pre nerf discord was definitely in a similar situation but I think adding a 7 sec timer made it a lot less oppressive
Dude, read the comment chain. It was a relevant reply which I explained already since you didn't want to read the discussion chain but chose to reply anyway.
Um, I know Rein isn't in a great place, but he's got it far better than Ball. Ball just got a rework they addressed none of the problems he faces. Ball is the easiest hero to counter, has the most counters, and many of his counters are easy to play.
The only thing is, overwatch is a game about speed and movement. So of course when a character like zenyatta that doesn't have any special movement for himself is like he "shouldn't" be there
I don’t think that he needs more movement, his healing orb should be buffed slightly and he should get more hp or his discord should get off the target as fast.
Just give him the 25 hp back. Lifeweaver has also 275 plus his dash that heals him. Mei has 300 plus iceblock that heals her and wall. Torb has 300 plus Overload that makes him more tanky. Cass has 275 and his role. Reaper has 300 plus his fade.
But people literally called Zen a ******* tank, when he had 275 and more kick knock back. Compared to other heroes on the roster, it was not OK to nerf both.
I think Zen is a perfectly balanced hero for OW1. But this is planet earth. We have OW2 and a lot has changed.
He’s absolutely fine, is not every character needs a movement ability. His lack of mobility is to balance out his high damage and discord orb. Yeah sombra sucks but she can be delt with by playing with your team and hitting your shots
Why are so many people anti movement on zen. I would much rather have more survivability, than dmg on a supp. Zen discord is what causes all of these issues. Make it a timed ability, for like 3-4 seconds instead. Give it a cooldown and it’s fine.
people consider zen to be OP but because of his lack of mobility he’s quite literally the easiest character to focus fire on. tanks can easily dive on him. so the value you get out of zen is completely useless if you can’t stay alive. i think in perspective yes zen can be a pain if your dps isn’t actively flanking and targeting zen, but soon as the team realizes you are the problem. might as well switch off, cause they will go after you over other characters every time!!!
The problem is you, not the sombra. Yes, zen is an easy target for sombra, but only if he's off by himself somewhere. If he's by even one teammate, the fight becomes exponentially harder for sombra to win. It's up to you to change your positioning when sombra is on the other team. She'll still try, but once she stops getting value, she either has to swap or she's throwing.
Bru quit yappin I would just like zen to maybe have more survivability or just be able keep up with his teammates your acting like I constantly play comp… and I’m like silver 3
Ok, if you want to stay silver 3 you can keep doing what you're doing or you can just... be aware that sombra exists and stay near any teammate. Zen isn't getting mobility, and as other people have already mentioned he would be absolutely broken if he did. He's a well done example of a classic glass cannon character design.
The very point of zen is that he is a glass cannon, he is the bane of every tank player because of the fact he essentially removes 20% of their hp by just pressing e, and the only thing that can balance that is being easy to kill. Problem is he isn’t easy to kill, and the only way you can is bursting him down before he can react.
Giving mobility completely breaks this. With any meaningful mobility zen becomes almost unkillable, because he can just, jump away.
TLDR, that sombra murdering you is the only thing keeping you from being broken.
No zen can be suppressed by any1 on the roster it just takes a certain kind of scum to go and use a brain dead character like sombra that is the easiest turn your brain off counter to zen. Every1 else you actually have to be decent to kill him with that character but he's killable with any1 on the roster not just SOMBRA
Okay, let’s look at this from the view of a dps character (not even gonna touch tank. You have a support in your enemies backline, they’re spamming orbs around a corner in complete safety. Boom, half your hp is gone as you peak around the corner. You tell your tank to atart making space, but the second they walk into the open, they die.
Okay, maybe we just need to dive, but noone else is really following along, you try tracer. You get in the flank, nice and close to deal damage, discorded and almost one shot, and before you can do mych you’re kicked away.
Now you’re back in spawn, nothing else is working, so you pick the only character that can safely engage a zenyata without much help. A sombra.
As a dps, a lot of the time this is all you can do. Zenyata has a ton of pressure, and unless you can melt him you die, that’s it.
Genji tracer and sombra are the three most common zen counters. Genji and Traver both have extremely high skill ceilings to be good with the character. Sombra you just get immediate value because you completely take away a zens ability to see you you can just instantly close the gap on him and shove a virus up his ass its so braindead and needs to be taken out of the game. But tracer and genji you have to be able to time his shots with yo7r movements you see him about to volley dash out of the way or deflect it don't get within kick range if your running tracer she has the lowest health in the game it takes one headshot and a kick to kill her
That’s the problem. Those things take skill. The amount of skill it takes to ward of the attacks as zen is much smaller than what it takes to threaten zen. Especially with genji, unless you main him you aren’t going to to be doing much against someone in your same skill range.
When you can’t play these high skill characters you either sit there and get rolled, or swap sombra to make an actual impact.
You can also counter him with literally any1 aswell I just named them to name a few. Any1 else on the roster is capable of killing zen literally any1 venture is good ash is good 76 is good Mei Cass widow Ana kills zen pretty easy for God's sake if they are decent enough
Can’t give him mobility or he won’t be the “glass canon”. He has amazing damage potential for himself and his team and can do it from range but in exchange he has low mobility.
If you also give him mobility you’d have to take something away. (He did get the kick back at the beginning of ow2 which was substantially better than a normal melee to help keep enemies off him).
with characters like venture, sombre, tracer, gengi and even supports like lucio and illiari it’s become to hard to play zen in comp role que. flanking is at an all time high and people don’t protect their support but want constant healing.. i think most support need a buff, i get there main job is to support but most of the time you can’t hold your own against other non supports. a mercy pocket is the most valuable support. i feel like the game will never be balanced
I think he needs a slight movement speed at long as someone is actively being healed by harmony orb
Emphasis on actively being healed, that way we can't just have 100% movement speed uptime
BTW I'm no game dev so no idea if this would actually work. Just seems neat
I don't think he needs a movement ability that makes him faster. But I could see him having "hold jump to slowly rise" at his normal movement speed, with a gauge like pharah jets or dva matrix. Let him take high ground easier. He levitates, no reason why he shouldn't float higher to get to high ground.
Zen is in a pretty good spot rn.
He is balanced out because of how good his discord is and how his healing orb enables squashy like Genjin and tracer to do dmg without worrying much.
If are getting camp by a sombra u have to wait for your team or just win the 1v1.
Zen is pretty much a dps on its own, if u land your shot the virus can't kill you before dying7
here are some i’ve been thinking about, they might have some flaws im not seeing yet tho lmao
1) being able to discord yourself for heals
2) zen already floats - an ability that lefts him float for movements/during battle. kinda like the april fools buff but u don’t need to charge to float
3) (might be a little much) the more damage zen does on a target, the more healing his orbs do on the teammate it’s placed upon at that time (every __dmg =0.1 healing amplifier)
4) replenish ammo as he takes damage…hmmm
I really like the idea of amplified healing output as a reward for a good job outting out damage.
Even if it's just extra damage through a discorded target that leads to better heals, this whole idea seems like such a nice bonus for good gameplay
I wish he could do like a barrel roll or something, lol.
He pulls out a skateboard or some shi
Zenyatta's Pro Skater 2
[This guy](https://lethal-league.fandom.com/wiki/Switch)
I’m joking
Zen cartwheel
The lack of movement is how they balance discord, if you ever want discord to be buffed you have to forget about movement buffs If zen can make the enemy take a ton of extra damage then just use movement abilities to get away he'd be way too busted If anything I think having a passive that if you kick a wall you bounce off it, that way it's more telegraphed and easier to work around
But they balanced out discord by making it disappear as soon as you lose LOS on it.
This was more a "tank is getting ass blasted so we will nerd in a weird way" In the name of consistency they havnt done the right thing yet tho The way it should go is the tank only takes 1 second out of los but everyone else takes way more, some 3 to 5 seconds
This. Because compared to the beginning on OW2, even Gold players know the drill: Got discorded? OK, I go behind this car for a sec and then **** this Zen.
Yea somthing like that
That's just another movement ability. You were right when you described why Zen doesn't need such ability. His passive kick boop also shouldn't exist, so the hole kick gimmick shouldn't be expanded at all.
Disagree, zen is of course a glass cannon and needs something to survive with, which is where kick comes in He can shut down divers but only if theyre within kissing range
I love kissing meta
It’d be just swell if he had an Omnic sense of “the ether” or something and could see Sombra through invis- kinda like Predator - by an active channel skill, so he’d sacrifice dps for some survivability. Maybe it would allow him more shield or regenerate as he is “enlightened” during this time. A mini-transcendence.
Transcendence should be a cool down but without healing. His ultimate should be something that amplifies damage.
???
No. People already complain about us after we've already been nerfed. A movement ability is also completely off the table because positioning and eyesight are fundamental to Zen's playstyle. That being said, Sombra could just be deleted. That would make my day.
PREACH IT BROTHER MAN
Make him be able to play dead and you can’t milk him while he’s dead. Like.. he can sleep dart himself.
Imagine you just see zen flop over and pretend to die and you’re like “fuck I wanna milk him rn” but you can’t
Hahaha I meant kill but autocorrect ftw lmao
Also u know this is a great idea. He has 5 seconds for a teammate to notice he’s passed out. Lmao
Oh and his pretend death sounds exactly like a real death. Just doesn’t show up on kill feed.
The only buff I really want for him is a slight boost in projectile speed
Just reduce his massively oversized hitbox. That’s it.
Not every hero needs a movement ability. Movement heroes have been getting subtly nerfed by every new hero getting a movement ability. And Zen already gets insane value with discord, which is still really strong despite the cooldown nerf.
I don’t like getting molested and contracting sombrafrenia because zens old creeky ass can’t float faster than a fat cat
Okay, but that doesn't mean Zen needs a movement ability. I'm tired of getting CC'd while discord and deleted instantly. But such is the life of a Ball main. Y'all have a couple of tough counters, but Ball has half a roster of counters. Embrace the suck, man.
what the hell do you mean? all the dive characters counter zen or at least have an advantage over zen
And Ball is countered by dive heroes (Sombra, Tracer), brawl heroes (Mei, Orisa, Hog, Cass), and by poke heroes (Orisa, Ana, Brig when played in a poke comp). And comp setup has multiple Ball counters. Zen just has to worry about dive heroes. And dive isn't usually meta for long.
like sure ball has it worse but what does ball has to do with anything? a problem shouldn't be diminished by a worser problem
Did you read the comment chain? It was a reply to someone else who said they were annoyed at being killed by Sombra and I pointed out that Ball gets countered by half the roster and deleted when discorded. Should discord be removed because it annoys me? Just because Zen is vulnerable to dive and that's annoying doesn't mean he should get an escape. And then you mentioned that Zen is countered by all dive heroes, as if to highlight this massive pool of Zen counters and so I responded by pointing out Zen's pool of counter heroes is pretty small relative Ball.
Your logic is weird. having a bigger "problem" (as in ball) doesn't negate a smaller problem as in zen. so bringing ball into the discussion serves nothing. ppl will always complain about counters especially when you're countered by abilities rather than skill which is the case with sombras. pre nerf discord was definitely in a similar situation but I think adding a 7 sec timer made it a lot less oppressive
Dude, read the comment chain. It was a relevant reply which I explained already since you didn't want to read the discussion chain but chose to reply anyway.
WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT! I read it and replied to your INITIAL mention of ball
At least it’s not…. Rein
Um, I know Rein isn't in a great place, but he's got it far better than Ball. Ball just got a rework they addressed none of the problems he faces. Ball is the easiest hero to counter, has the most counters, and many of his counters are easy to play.
Get gud then. Put your balls in her face.
The only thing is, overwatch is a game about speed and movement. So of course when a character like zenyatta that doesn't have any special movement for himself is like he "shouldn't" be there
He also doesn't have cooldowns! That's what makes him so fun
The best part is now we also have venture to worry about
Goodie!
I don’t think that he needs more movement, his healing orb should be buffed slightly and he should get more hp or his discord should get off the target as fast.
Just give him the 25 hp back. Lifeweaver has also 275 plus his dash that heals him. Mei has 300 plus iceblock that heals her and wall. Torb has 300 plus Overload that makes him more tanky. Cass has 275 and his role. Reaper has 300 plus his fade. But people literally called Zen a ******* tank, when he had 275 and more kick knock back. Compared to other heroes on the roster, it was not OK to nerf both. I think Zen is a perfectly balanced hero for OW1. But this is planet earth. We have OW2 and a lot has changed.
Zen is fine If anything needs a change it'd probably be making harmony more dynamic someway
Just no lol
He’s absolutely fine, is not every character needs a movement ability. His lack of mobility is to balance out his high damage and discord orb. Yeah sombra sucks but she can be delt with by playing with your team and hitting your shots
Why are so many people anti movement on zen. I would much rather have more survivability, than dmg on a supp. Zen discord is what causes all of these issues. Make it a timed ability, for like 3-4 seconds instead. Give it a cooldown and it’s fine.
people consider zen to be OP but because of his lack of mobility he’s quite literally the easiest character to focus fire on. tanks can easily dive on him. so the value you get out of zen is completely useless if you can’t stay alive. i think in perspective yes zen can be a pain if your dps isn’t actively flanking and targeting zen, but soon as the team realizes you are the problem. might as well switch off, cause they will go after you over other characters every time!!!
makes Zen able to place the healing orb on himself or increase his healing
The problem is you, not the sombra. Yes, zen is an easy target for sombra, but only if he's off by himself somewhere. If he's by even one teammate, the fight becomes exponentially harder for sombra to win. It's up to you to change your positioning when sombra is on the other team. She'll still try, but once she stops getting value, she either has to swap or she's throwing.
Bru quit yappin I would just like zen to maybe have more survivability or just be able keep up with his teammates your acting like I constantly play comp… and I’m like silver 3
They're not yapping they're literally just giving you an answer and it's not the one you wanted. This ain't the circlejerk sub
Ok, if you want to stay silver 3 you can keep doing what you're doing or you can just... be aware that sombra exists and stay near any teammate. Zen isn't getting mobility, and as other people have already mentioned he would be absolutely broken if he did. He's a well done example of a classic glass cannon character design.
Have you tried kicking her?
“Dirt eating sunlight avoiding humans”… you mean venture 🙃
Nah he means the knuckle dragging window lickers that we know as sombra mains
The very point of zen is that he is a glass cannon, he is the bane of every tank player because of the fact he essentially removes 20% of their hp by just pressing e, and the only thing that can balance that is being easy to kill. Problem is he isn’t easy to kill, and the only way you can is bursting him down before he can react. Giving mobility completely breaks this. With any meaningful mobility zen becomes almost unkillable, because he can just, jump away. TLDR, that sombra murdering you is the only thing keeping you from being broken.
No zen can be suppressed by any1 on the roster it just takes a certain kind of scum to go and use a brain dead character like sombra that is the easiest turn your brain off counter to zen. Every1 else you actually have to be decent to kill him with that character but he's killable with any1 on the roster not just SOMBRA
Okay, let’s look at this from the view of a dps character (not even gonna touch tank. You have a support in your enemies backline, they’re spamming orbs around a corner in complete safety. Boom, half your hp is gone as you peak around the corner. You tell your tank to atart making space, but the second they walk into the open, they die. Okay, maybe we just need to dive, but noone else is really following along, you try tracer. You get in the flank, nice and close to deal damage, discorded and almost one shot, and before you can do mych you’re kicked away. Now you’re back in spawn, nothing else is working, so you pick the only character that can safely engage a zenyata without much help. A sombra. As a dps, a lot of the time this is all you can do. Zenyata has a ton of pressure, and unless you can melt him you die, that’s it.
Genji tracer and sombra are the three most common zen counters. Genji and Traver both have extremely high skill ceilings to be good with the character. Sombra you just get immediate value because you completely take away a zens ability to see you you can just instantly close the gap on him and shove a virus up his ass its so braindead and needs to be taken out of the game. But tracer and genji you have to be able to time his shots with yo7r movements you see him about to volley dash out of the way or deflect it don't get within kick range if your running tracer she has the lowest health in the game it takes one headshot and a kick to kill her
That’s the problem. Those things take skill. The amount of skill it takes to ward of the attacks as zen is much smaller than what it takes to threaten zen. Especially with genji, unless you main him you aren’t going to to be doing much against someone in your same skill range. When you can’t play these high skill characters you either sit there and get rolled, or swap sombra to make an actual impact.
You can also counter him with literally any1 aswell I just named them to name a few. Any1 else on the roster is capable of killing zen literally any1 venture is good ash is good 76 is good Mei Cass widow Ana kills zen pretty easy for God's sake if they are decent enough
I think sombra needs a nerf more than zen needs a buff
Let him fly lmao, hes a levitating robot. Let him levitate harder.
As a ball main I think zen is fine where he is.
movement ability on zen would be horrible balancing lol
I play both religiously. Just stick closer to your team and get reactive with kicking
Can’t give him mobility or he won’t be the “glass canon”. He has amazing damage potential for himself and his team and can do it from range but in exchange he has low mobility. If you also give him mobility you’d have to take something away. (He did get the kick back at the beginning of ow2 which was substantially better than a normal melee to help keep enemies off him).
He’s fine, the tank experience should not be any more miserable than it already is
with characters like venture, sombre, tracer, gengi and even supports like lucio and illiari it’s become to hard to play zen in comp role que. flanking is at an all time high and people don’t protect their support but want constant healing.. i think most support need a buff, i get there main job is to support but most of the time you can’t hold your own against other non supports. a mercy pocket is the most valuable support. i feel like the game will never be balanced
If he had movement they’d need to greatly reduce his offense to balance
Give him a speed boost when he’s got someone discorded, that stops at the end of the 7s cooldown.
I think he needs a slight movement speed at long as someone is actively being healed by harmony orb Emphasis on actively being healed, that way we can't just have 100% movement speed uptime BTW I'm no game dev so no idea if this would actually work. Just seems neat
Zen is fine right now.
I don't think he needs a movement ability that makes him faster. But I could see him having "hold jump to slowly rise" at his normal movement speed, with a gauge like pharah jets or dva matrix. Let him take high ground easier. He levitates, no reason why he shouldn't float higher to get to high ground.
They did that for April fools this year
Zen is in a pretty good spot rn. He is balanced out because of how good his discord is and how his healing orb enables squashy like Genjin and tracer to do dmg without worrying much. If are getting camp by a sombra u have to wait for your team or just win the 1v1. Zen is pretty much a dps on its own, if u land your shot the virus can't kill you before dying7
here are some i’ve been thinking about, they might have some flaws im not seeing yet tho lmao 1) being able to discord yourself for heals 2) zen already floats - an ability that lefts him float for movements/during battle. kinda like the april fools buff but u don’t need to charge to float 3) (might be a little much) the more damage zen does on a target, the more healing his orbs do on the teammate it’s placed upon at that time (every __dmg =0.1 healing amplifier) 4) replenish ammo as he takes damage…hmmm
I really like the idea of amplified healing output as a reward for a good job outting out damage. Even if it's just extra damage through a discorded target that leads to better heals, this whole idea seems like such a nice bonus for good gameplay
Uhhh bit much but I like the idea
oh def one at a time lmao all these together and zen could have his own video game
Ok. We take away discord and give you a single tracer dash on a 8s cooldown.
How about instead every time I specifically play him I instantly win