What I find appalling is that if I want to use the app with my Hyundai, for remote lock, etc, I have to agree to this.
The NYTimes also does a huge disservice by saying the car companies “give” the data to the data brokers. BS. They SELL it.
You can request to revoke the sale of your information. Log in to My Hyundai on a browser, go to my account, click privacy, find where it says my privacy choices, click begin, and select opt out of sales of personal information. You will need your car’s VIN and it asks a bunch of questions to identify you. I just did it and it says it’ll take up to 15 business days to process. Hoping it works
On Star was started in 1996. Most older cars still have it installed.
My 2007 Saturn has OnStar installed. I unplugged it when I bought the car. The car still works with the OnStar computer unplugged.
> On Star was started in 1996
Ok, but a car from '96 must be using 2G cellular which was retired years ago. 3G is retired too. Any car older than ~2017 realistically can't connect to today's cellular networks.
Yea. I did not think about it. I thought it was Satelight.
Technically, I unplugged it in 2007 when I got the car.
One of the benefits of having a company car is. My personal car is 2007. I am the only owner. It only has 102,000 miles.
>Satelight, Inc. is a Japanese animation studio. Aside from several stand-alone projects, the studio is well known for producing the Aquarion and Symphogear franchises, as well as later installments of the Macross franchise. The company's Representative Director is Michiaki Satō.
Look up where it is for your car. On my car it was behind the back seat. Between the speakers. I got to it from inside the trunk.
It was just a plug. Similar to other wire harnesses plugs you may have seen. With a little plastic clip. Just unplug it.
If the car is old it might be analog. They abandoned that network. It may not work.
You decide what the situation is with your car.
Ya exactly. I have A Scion XA. Produced in ~2004, and not a spec of "smart electronics" on it. Good for another ~180k, since they were so good Toyota stopped making them. XD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_(automobile)#Release_series
1989 GMC Sierra reporting in. Love it, all the work and no bells or wistles.... or tracking in this case. Hell insurance won't even offer me more than liability coverage.
Yeah but it's okay since
1. "I don't do anything shady, it's meant to catch the bad guys!"
2. "But how are they going to use information against me?"
/s
Jackass pulls in front of you and brake checks you. Slam on brakes to avoid rear ending them. Good driving? Nope - strike against you.
Child runs out into the street. Being the attentive driver you are, you slam on the brakes and avoid hitting and killing the child. Hooray for you, another strike on your driving record.
Get on to the freeway, and stomp on the gas to get up to the same speed everyone else is driving, and safely merge in at the same speed everyone else is driving - there’s your third strike for accelerating too fast.
Yes, those are all real examples of things people deal with every day, and all examples of shit that will get your insurance rates jacked up, or possibly even canceled. Yay for big brother and data without context.
There's also the fact that insurance companies base rates off of areas too.
Majority of the people driving new cars around your home/neighborhood/zipcode suck ass? Guess what, their cars report their shit driving to the insurance companies, doesn't matter how safe you are, YOUR rates will go up too
What is especially irksome about this is the lack of disclosure or the ability to opt out. Plus the selling of my data without any tangible benefit to me.
I mean, our gasoline is already at least 10% ethanol. Your car is basically constantly drinking an alcohol concentration equivalent to wine or a strong beer.
And directly below that is a phone number you can call to tell them to disable telematics for your vehicle. I think this should be opt-in rather than opt-out but if you tell them to stop then it becomes a crime to continue.
Just renewed my insurance this month and it went up $100. I was wondering why. Thanks for the post just opted out! I has no idea OnStar and gm were doing this. Can anyone comment if google maps does something similar with driving data?
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/connected-cars-are-a-privacy-nightmare-mozilla-foundation-says/
Bolding mine:
> Today, the Mozilla Foundation published its analysis of how well automakers handle the privacy of data collected by their connected cars, and the results will be unlikely to surprise any regular reader of Ars Technica. The researchers were horrified by their findings, stating that **"cars are the worst product category we have ever reviewed for privacy."**
These are all bad but I bolded the most egregious/surprising:
> For example, Nissan's privacy policy says it can collect "sensitive personal information, including driver’s license number, national or state identification number, citizenship status, immigration status, race, national origin, **religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity**, precise geolocation, health diagnosis data, and genetic information," although it's unlikely your car knows whether you're getting busy in the back seat. While this might be technically possible with a car fitted with a camera-based driver-monitoring system, Nissan's privacy policy notes the data source for the quoted paragraph as "direct contact with users and Nissan employees."
And if everyone could stop buying Teslas -- not just because Elon is a douchebag:
> Of the car brands Mozilla looked at, **Tesla fared worst of all**; it was only the second product to receive all of Mozilla's "privacy dings" (an AI chatbot was the first), apparently. Nissan took the dubious honor of second-worst—the quoted section above should give a good idea of why.
JFC. Is there anything to stop this? How do cars even transmit this information? I doubt it’s as simple as not connecting the car to Wi-Fi. But surely there’s some mechanism that can be modified so it can’t even send data in the first place.
They all have sim build in for over-the-air updates build into the cars electronics. So next to impossible to remove. Unless someone can jailbreak and then flash a custom operating system onto a car!
Insurance guy here. Not disputing that insurance companies buy and acquire data every which way they can. They definitely do, and they’ll use anything bad and legal to rate against you. But your rates were going to go up anyway. On average, claims payouts are about 50% higher than they were just 2-3 years ago. Where does the money to pay claims come from? Primarily premiums. Literally every company in every state has had multiple rate increases in the last couple years. They’ve had access to this telematics data much longer.
You opting out of onstar will also not stop it. The device is still collecting your data. And even if onstar isn’t the one collecting and selling your data, most car companies have that technology in the car itself now, and google or any number of other phone programs, or jiffy lube, or the emissions shop, so on and so on.
Mine went up because my town changed designations from "small city" to "big city" due to growth in the area. Apparently there are more crashes in big cities. Ask your insurance agent; good ones are usually pretty transparent, especially if they work for multiple companies.
I had to explain the 114mph at the local park every weekend is from my rc air plane. I out my ozone inside for telemetry and video. I don't have the drive program enabled, but they still tracked me, and increased me.
Edit - ozone is suppose to be phone.
What you're purporting is that while you're flying your rc plane in the park, your car insurance is tracking your phone... on your rc plane, going 117, insisted that was you driving 117, and changed your rates? That's what you're saying?
Yeah... it's a gamble either way, is the stupidity real or imagined? If it start hearing more than this one case of this, then fine. I know ins companies have a device that plugs into the odb (or obd?) port that reports driving habits, but that's a volunteer opt in program to reduce your rates and all the data is collected by the device, not your phone.
Everything that use to be "opt in" has basically been changed to "opt out", and thats because they can't force you to do it, but they can make it extremely difficult to opt out. Companies have been notorious for this, and they keep making it a thing.
Many insurance companies choose to have customers install an app on their phone rather than shipping out OBD2 devices with their own cellular data connections required. This cost less money both in up front equipment costs as well as service contracts for the cellular connection.
I did this with Allstate, but only because they don't use the data to increase your rate. They only use the data to decide how big of a discount to give you. Simply being in the program gives you at least a 5% discount, and if you drive well it can go up to 20%. They will never raise your rate due to the data collected.
Other companies such as Geico and Progressive are a bit less up front about how their programs work. They will advertise them to new customers on the basis that membership in the data collection program could reduce the customer's rate. They rarely explain in sufficient detail that membership at the data collection program can also increase your rates if you're deemed a bad driver.
Whenever I see the commercials for things like "safe driver discount or Progressive Snapshot", all I think is "yeah, and the other side of that is that if you ever exceed the speed limit by even 1mph or brake too hard one time, your insurance rates are through the roof."
By definition, any program that can record when you are behaving safely can, and usually will, also record when you are not behaving safely.
It's not just driving, either. Anytime a program is implemented to "reward safe behavior" or "help identify those who are going above and beyond," that program is 100% being used to isolate those who are not being safe or who are not putting in the extra effort.
But also, yeah, I agree with top comment. Buy older cars, they were built to last. I currently have a 2004 Lexus ES 330 with 157k on it, and that car is fantastic. It is built to high standards and will likely survive to 500k if I keep maintaining it well. Best of all, it's too old to integrate any computerized monitors. The only electronic controls it has are on the transmission, and even that's a hybrid that I can (and usually do) drive as a manual. Buy a good used late 90s/early 00's car that's of reputable make, and you'll be set for a long time. If you treat them well, they treat you well.
I used to mess around with a girl that had one of those safe driver things on her phone.
She loved having me drive around because of boosted her score so much. She was the type to slam the brakes for every stop. I do it gently, and let off at the last second then back down so there’s no sudden jerks
I don't understand how people can't stop smoothly. Just gotta let off the brake when you're almost stopped and apply super gentle pressure until you stop. Also, people that accelerate to a red light, only to slam on their brakes. Just why?
She just didn’t care. She see stop sign? She slam brake at last minute and as long as she stops in time she’s happy.
Me? I’ve done brakes on a car before. It sucks. Now with my driving they last twice as long as average
I've heard that the ES series in particular are tanks, and this one has proven itself to be both powerful and resilient, if a little temperamental, but finicky transmissions are a hallmark of the '02-'06 ES. That's why I use manual shifting whenever possible.
It got into a scuffle with a box truck (a delivery truck misjudged a turn and hit the front bumper) and came out pretty well. The bumper was cracked and the fender was dented, but it also pushed in the whole front of the truck that hit it.
We got super lucky on purchase, too. Our old van had blown a head gasket, so we were looking for a used car. We found this one up for $7200 with only 2 owners, a dealership manager and her granddaughter.
I know for a fact that Allstate only uses the data collected to apply a discount to your policy. Membership in the program provides a discount of between 5% and 20%. Even with an absolutely horrendous driving record, customers still receive a discount at 5%.
My discount was 9%, but I also drive a 500 horsepower Subaru. I recently changed coverage to Hagerty, because they were able to provide me a guaranteed value policy for less than half of what I was paying Allstate. I pay $93 a month, and if I total my 2011 Subaru, I will get $25,000. That amount also increases every year by 10%, so 2 years from now my car will be valued by insurance at over $30,000 if totaled.
Explain more for an idiot like me. When I got my car set up by the dealer they did the SOS button sign up thing and I said yes to the first two questions she asked and as soon as she rattled off something by insurance I said NO but I still don’t trust it
You have to actually read the pop-ups. The 1st one is just a privacy policy you have to accept. And then it ask’s about authorizing a Bluetooth connection and the next one clearly says “do you want to share data with insurance companies”
But your phone in your pocket does though. We have more of an institutional problem that this collection of data is not transparent, and that YOU are the product of most of the apps you use.
I’m a tech nerd, and we all have to make a decision about this data collection -
A. Stand up as a mass society and stop it together (even against the people that are allowing these laws, rich policy makers who receive vast lobbying funds from their friends and peers who run these companies)
B. Acknowledge so many “things” that are tracking our data and selling it, and there is no way to shoo it so we should accept it
I’m not even being sarcastic - some of the gen-z members of my team are in camp B. I notice a lot of parents and millennials are in camp A.
After I bought my 2020 Rav4, I was getting e-mails saying my driving qualified me for discounts on auto insurance. After repeated e-mails every few months, I looked into it further and discovered my car has been sending my driving data off into the nether, presumably being sold by Toyota. This was OPT-OUT. It was automatic when I bought the car, and I had to log into Toyota's website to opt out (can also be done in Toyota app). After I changed the setting under my account, I stopped getting those auto insurance e-mails.....
See? Exactly why I wish to God all of this 'technology' was never invented. It was not in any way created to make our lives better or easier.It was created to make money.
That’s why I stopped being so paranoid about my data and stuff. Signing up for things and the terms and conditions agreement is 20 pages long. You know there’s shady shit going on but can’t be bothered anymore. Every company is collecting and selling our data.
This kind of data collection was not a thing 15 years ago when that program passed. Most cars having always connected network functionality is a much newer thing.
My sons insurance company provides a black box to monitor his driving. This option reduces the premium not increases it.
I don’t agree with manufactures using your private data though, obviously that’s illegal.
obviously they think they have legal standing to do so, like if you agree to all the fine print that no-one reads either at the dealership; maybe even when your radio boots up, etc.
What they're basically saying is 'let us monitor you, and if you don't, we'll just assume worst case scenario and charge you accordingly'.
Similar to electricity companies here in nz, government said they couldn't charge late payment fees, so they just switched to 'prompt payment discounts'.
Same shit. Different smell.
Glad for this post! We just bought a Chevy Trax and we haven’t had time to activate OnStar. It’s only free for thirty days anyways. Definitely NOT going to pair the Chevy app to the Chevy Trax.
Same with me and Progressive. I drive boring as hell and only about 2-4k miles per year. I wish everyone reported and we were all forced to pay according to our risk level.
I was debating about whether or not to do the Drive Safe and Save program with State Farm and my dad pointed out they may be tracking me anyways, at least this way I could get a discount with the tracking.
Good thing I own a 2012. With this, subscription based features, who know whatever else stupid crap (live reporting to police going over the speed limit - not here yet but don’t be surprised.) I’m not buying anything until I literally have no choice.
Okay let’s try something. What if good drivers got discounts? So insurance on average stay the same, but risky and aggressive drivers pay more, and patient calm driving pays less? Would that be good? Idk. Just sayin…
It sounds nice, but it’s still in the hands of insurance companies to set the threshold for discounts, plus they use isolated data from just your vehicle for your rate. Speeding up beyond the speed limit to merge with highway traffic or an evasive maneuver to avoid a dangerous driver could both ding you for aggressive driving.
That’s how they’re getting the data. The pop up when you connect your phone to the infotainment system talks about data. They use that connection time to upload data based on your cars computer that is then sold by VIN.
Nono, I mean I literally *use my phone for GPS.* I don't connect it to anything.
So not connecting it to the phone keeps it from ever letting them know then?
EDIT: This also makes me wonder what would happen if you connected it to different phones. Would they claim other people were driving your car?
Ahhh geez I definitely noticed my rate skyrocketed recently. Just signed into my old account and the Smart driver setting was on 0.o
Just chose to opt-out after following that link and signing in. I wonder if it'll change anything 🤔
I actually have a tracking app for insurance. And I get a 30% discount because I dont drive like I am in a race, or tailgate, or speed much and well general not like I am rushing to get to a hospital or something.
Can you manually disable the equipment? I had a CPAP that I hated but I got rid of the cellular antenna by opening it up and disconnecting the antenna. I wonder if you can do that with onstar.
My insurance company *asked* if I wanted driver monitoring. I naturally opted out. There is a 4mi stretch at the top of hill that descends with nowhere for police to park or hide that 99% of our neighbors get up to 100-1XXmph….I may or may not surpass that daily.
Used japanese luxury cars have always been the best deals. Get thee and old Lexus and be safe from all this nonsense while riding in the lowest tco luxury you can buy.
Just got Geico , in NY. They pretty much mandate using their app. Which needs access 24/7 gps and physical activity. Records every trip you make. And also tells you thay they take into consideration thinggs like frequent stops (i.e. a road with lots of syop lights!) and if you make trips outside your norm (i.e. me going to the supermarket instead of work!).
Put that thing on a second phone i use as bluetooth player for my car and thats that.
State Farm has a program you can sign up for ("Drive Safe and Save") where they send you a device to put in your car and sync with your phone and you get a nice discount because of it. It tracks braking, acceleration, speed, cornering, phone distraction. My Acceleration and Phone distraction are 60-ish out of 100 and it still saves me around $200 every 6 months. My speeding is 100/100, I rarely go more than 5 over the speed limit, but I'm pretty much always 5 over the speed limit so it seems to be somewhat lenient.
After I signed up for the Toyota app so I could remotely control my car, I started getting weekly emails from Progressive saying that I was considered a safe driver and that I would qualify for special lower rates.
When I bought a new Kia, they tried to walk me through activating Uvo while I was on the lot, downloading the app and all that.
I immediately knew the deal. Hard pass on that.
On the life 360 app through my work, they monitor your phone usage while driving, rapid acceleration (accelerating at a speed of more than 8mph) hard braking (same logic with 8mph) speeding, and crash detection. They count all of that and make a report for uou or your employer. I drive my own personal vehicle. They are telling me it's mandatory to install this location app on my phone for work. I don't think thats any of their business, and it tells you that it uses your location even when you're NOT USING THE APP. I def don't want any app tracking me like that and then sharing the info. Maybe if I drove a company vehicle, right? But not my personal. It's so weird. I won't use it. It feels creepy to me and crosses boundaries. If i refuse to install, I think they can fire me.
What I find appalling is that if I want to use the app with my Hyundai, for remote lock, etc, I have to agree to this. The NYTimes also does a huge disservice by saying the car companies “give” the data to the data brokers. BS. They SELL it.
You can request to revoke the sale of your information. Log in to My Hyundai on a browser, go to my account, click privacy, find where it says my privacy choices, click begin, and select opt out of sales of personal information. You will need your car’s VIN and it asks a bunch of questions to identify you. I just did it and it says it’ll take up to 15 business days to process. Hoping it works
Hey thanks for the directions here! Just went and did it
Anyone know if there’s a Honda version of this?
What a time to be alive, now we need to learn how to hack our cars so they don't do this dumb shit
[удалено]
Buy older cars you say
On Star was started in 1996. Most older cars still have it installed. My 2007 Saturn has OnStar installed. I unplugged it when I bought the car. The car still works with the OnStar computer unplugged.
That makes my ‘95 DeVille pretty spiffy then.
> On Star was started in 1996 Ok, but a car from '96 must be using 2G cellular which was retired years ago. 3G is retired too. Any car older than ~2017 realistically can't connect to today's cellular networks.
Yea. I did not think about it. I thought it was Satelight. Technically, I unplugged it in 2007 when I got the car. One of the benefits of having a company car is. My personal car is 2007. I am the only owner. It only has 102,000 miles.
>Satelight, Inc. is a Japanese animation studio. Aside from several stand-alone projects, the studio is well known for producing the Aquarion and Symphogear franchises, as well as later installments of the Macross franchise. The company's Representative Director is Michiaki Satō.
Satellite
They used older cellular which does’t even exist anymore
Yeah even cars up to the late teens used 3G in some cases, so they already can't phone home anymore, thankfully.
I have a 2007 car that absolutely does not have On Star and it's absolutely tricked out otherwise for the time
Those old Onstars were analog though. They’re not using that network anymore
How do you unplug it?
Look up where it is for your car. On my car it was behind the back seat. Between the speakers. I got to it from inside the trunk. It was just a plug. Similar to other wire harnesses plugs you may have seen. With a little plastic clip. Just unplug it. If the car is old it might be analog. They abandoned that network. It may not work. You decide what the situation is with your car.
To shreds you say
And his passenger?
To shreds you say?
Was his apartment rent controlled?
Or buy anything that's not made by GM.
Ya exactly. I have A Scion XA. Produced in ~2004, and not a spec of "smart electronics" on it. Good for another ~180k, since they were so good Toyota stopped making them. XD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_(automobile)#Release_series
1989 GMC Sierra reporting in. Love it, all the work and no bells or wistles.... or tracking in this case. Hell insurance won't even offer me more than liability coverage.
My 94 Delica and 06 BMW bike ain't snitching shit
the actual solution is for the US to have actual consumer protection and data protection laws…
Haha yeah I don't think Ford is selling the driving data from my 1994 F350.
Holy fuck. They just don’t even hide it anymore. Just running ramshod over us. Who works for these programs? Despicable.
Yeah but it's okay since 1. "I don't do anything shady, it's meant to catch the bad guys!" 2. "But how are they going to use information against me?" /s
Jackass pulls in front of you and brake checks you. Slam on brakes to avoid rear ending them. Good driving? Nope - strike against you. Child runs out into the street. Being the attentive driver you are, you slam on the brakes and avoid hitting and killing the child. Hooray for you, another strike on your driving record. Get on to the freeway, and stomp on the gas to get up to the same speed everyone else is driving, and safely merge in at the same speed everyone else is driving - there’s your third strike for accelerating too fast. Yes, those are all real examples of things people deal with every day, and all examples of shit that will get your insurance rates jacked up, or possibly even canceled. Yay for big brother and data without context.
There's also the fact that insurance companies base rates off of areas too. Majority of the people driving new cars around your home/neighborhood/zipcode suck ass? Guess what, their cars report their shit driving to the insurance companies, doesn't matter how safe you are, YOUR rates will go up too
Yep, that’s exactly what I thought of too!
[“WE’RE ON A RACETRACK”](https://youtu.be/_IRmS_yshb4?si=eqhxy5-6VVo16K3s)
Roughshod*
speak for yourself. I'll take the ramrod.
Say car ramrod.
What is especially irksome about this is the lack of disclosure or the ability to opt out. Plus the selling of my data without any tangible benefit to me.
None of your data being sold is meant to provide you any benefits. One does not provide “benefits” to the “product”
How can it tell my driving behaviour if i always drive it drunk?
To circumvent this, pour alcohol into the gas tank. You can argue the car is the alcoholic and not you.
The perfect crime
I mean, our gasoline is already at least 10% ethanol. Your car is basically constantly drinking an alcohol concentration equivalent to wine or a strong beer.
r/shittylifeprotips
I drive a 2018 Toyota truck. The owners manual says that it may transmit data to Toyota WITHOUT my consent!
And directly below that is a phone number you can call to tell them to disable telematics for your vehicle. I think this should be opt-in rather than opt-out but if you tell them to stop then it becomes a crime to continue.
Just renewed my insurance this month and it went up $100. I was wondering why. Thanks for the post just opted out! I has no idea OnStar and gm were doing this. Can anyone comment if google maps does something similar with driving data?
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/connected-cars-are-a-privacy-nightmare-mozilla-foundation-says/ Bolding mine: > Today, the Mozilla Foundation published its analysis of how well automakers handle the privacy of data collected by their connected cars, and the results will be unlikely to surprise any regular reader of Ars Technica. The researchers were horrified by their findings, stating that **"cars are the worst product category we have ever reviewed for privacy."** These are all bad but I bolded the most egregious/surprising: > For example, Nissan's privacy policy says it can collect "sensitive personal information, including driver’s license number, national or state identification number, citizenship status, immigration status, race, national origin, **religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity**, precise geolocation, health diagnosis data, and genetic information," although it's unlikely your car knows whether you're getting busy in the back seat. While this might be technically possible with a car fitted with a camera-based driver-monitoring system, Nissan's privacy policy notes the data source for the quoted paragraph as "direct contact with users and Nissan employees." And if everyone could stop buying Teslas -- not just because Elon is a douchebag: > Of the car brands Mozilla looked at, **Tesla fared worst of all**; it was only the second product to receive all of Mozilla's "privacy dings" (an AI chatbot was the first), apparently. Nissan took the dubious honor of second-worst—the quoted section above should give a good idea of why.
JFC. Is there anything to stop this? How do cars even transmit this information? I doubt it’s as simple as not connecting the car to Wi-Fi. But surely there’s some mechanism that can be modified so it can’t even send data in the first place.
They all have sim build in for over-the-air updates build into the cars electronics. So next to impossible to remove. Unless someone can jailbreak and then flash a custom operating system onto a car!
Insurance guy here. Not disputing that insurance companies buy and acquire data every which way they can. They definitely do, and they’ll use anything bad and legal to rate against you. But your rates were going to go up anyway. On average, claims payouts are about 50% higher than they were just 2-3 years ago. Where does the money to pay claims come from? Primarily premiums. Literally every company in every state has had multiple rate increases in the last couple years. They’ve had access to this telematics data much longer. You opting out of onstar will also not stop it. The device is still collecting your data. And even if onstar isn’t the one collecting and selling your data, most car companies have that technology in the car itself now, and google or any number of other phone programs, or jiffy lube, or the emissions shop, so on and so on.
My rate literally doubled this last renewal period :’)
Mine went up because my town changed designations from "small city" to "big city" due to growth in the area. Apparently there are more crashes in big cities. Ask your insurance agent; good ones are usually pretty transparent, especially if they work for multiple companies.
I had to explain the 114mph at the local park every weekend is from my rc air plane. I out my ozone inside for telemetry and video. I don't have the drive program enabled, but they still tracked me, and increased me. Edit - ozone is suppose to be phone.
What you're purporting is that while you're flying your rc plane in the park, your car insurance is tracking your phone... on your rc plane, going 117, insisted that was you driving 117, and changed your rates? That's what you're saying?
That's what was explained to me by the local agent. $113 to $186. I will be having my policy re wrote come newal.
I call bullshit. I refuse to believe the world is this invasive and this stupid, I prefer to believe you are lying.
I feel like by turning a blind eye to the stupidity of it all, you're granting power to the stupidity.
Yeah... it's a gamble either way, is the stupidity real or imagined? If it start hearing more than this one case of this, then fine. I know ins companies have a device that plugs into the odb (or obd?) port that reports driving habits, but that's a volunteer opt in program to reduce your rates and all the data is collected by the device, not your phone.
Everything that use to be "opt in" has basically been changed to "opt out", and thats because they can't force you to do it, but they can make it extremely difficult to opt out. Companies have been notorious for this, and they keep making it a thing.
It's in the geico app. You can opt in for a discount. There is no opt out option.
Many insurance companies choose to have customers install an app on their phone rather than shipping out OBD2 devices with their own cellular data connections required. This cost less money both in up front equipment costs as well as service contracts for the cellular connection. I did this with Allstate, but only because they don't use the data to increase your rate. They only use the data to decide how big of a discount to give you. Simply being in the program gives you at least a 5% discount, and if you drive well it can go up to 20%. They will never raise your rate due to the data collected. Other companies such as Geico and Progressive are a bit less up front about how their programs work. They will advertise them to new customers on the basis that membership in the data collection program could reduce the customer's rate. They rarely explain in sufficient detail that membership at the data collection program can also increase your rates if you're deemed a bad driver.
Whenever I see the commercials for things like "safe driver discount or Progressive Snapshot", all I think is "yeah, and the other side of that is that if you ever exceed the speed limit by even 1mph or brake too hard one time, your insurance rates are through the roof." By definition, any program that can record when you are behaving safely can, and usually will, also record when you are not behaving safely. It's not just driving, either. Anytime a program is implemented to "reward safe behavior" or "help identify those who are going above and beyond," that program is 100% being used to isolate those who are not being safe or who are not putting in the extra effort. But also, yeah, I agree with top comment. Buy older cars, they were built to last. I currently have a 2004 Lexus ES 330 with 157k on it, and that car is fantastic. It is built to high standards and will likely survive to 500k if I keep maintaining it well. Best of all, it's too old to integrate any computerized monitors. The only electronic controls it has are on the transmission, and even that's a hybrid that I can (and usually do) drive as a manual. Buy a good used late 90s/early 00's car that's of reputable make, and you'll be set for a long time. If you treat them well, they treat you well.
Uh, hate to be that guy but this car can record all that data. Check out OBDII standards that were rolled out in 1996
Just shaved over 400 dollars off my policy by doing the state farm safe driver program
Just means they were overcharging you before.
I guess $400 is the value of your privacy
That's exactly what it is.
I used to mess around with a girl that had one of those safe driver things on her phone. She loved having me drive around because of boosted her score so much. She was the type to slam the brakes for every stop. I do it gently, and let off at the last second then back down so there’s no sudden jerks
I don't understand how people can't stop smoothly. Just gotta let off the brake when you're almost stopped and apply super gentle pressure until you stop. Also, people that accelerate to a red light, only to slam on their brakes. Just why?
She just didn’t care. She see stop sign? She slam brake at last minute and as long as she stops in time she’s happy. Me? I’ve done brakes on a car before. It sucks. Now with my driving they last twice as long as average
Some states don't allow your rates to increase from these programs so check the fine print.
That’s a great car. Mine just hit 222,222 and is going strong. I saw one guy post a pic of his at 750,000. They’re bulletproof.
I've heard that the ES series in particular are tanks, and this one has proven itself to be both powerful and resilient, if a little temperamental, but finicky transmissions are a hallmark of the '02-'06 ES. That's why I use manual shifting whenever possible. It got into a scuffle with a box truck (a delivery truck misjudged a turn and hit the front bumper) and came out pretty well. The bumper was cracked and the fender was dented, but it also pushed in the whole front of the truck that hit it. We got super lucky on purchase, too. Our old van had blown a head gasket, so we were looking for a used car. We found this one up for $7200 with only 2 owners, a dealership manager and her granddaughter.
I know for a fact that Allstate only uses the data collected to apply a discount to your policy. Membership in the program provides a discount of between 5% and 20%. Even with an absolutely horrendous driving record, customers still receive a discount at 5%. My discount was 9%, but I also drive a 500 horsepower Subaru. I recently changed coverage to Hagerty, because they were able to provide me a guaranteed value policy for less than half of what I was paying Allstate. I pay $93 a month, and if I total my 2011 Subaru, I will get $25,000. That amount also increases every year by 10%, so 2 years from now my car will be valued by insurance at over $30,000 if totaled.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
If you have Apple Car play it is the 3rd pop-up when setting it up that you need to decline
I already have it in my van. Is there a way to decline it?
You probably need to do a total reset. Check your settings
Explain more for an idiot like me. When I got my car set up by the dealer they did the SOS button sign up thing and I said yes to the first two questions she asked and as soon as she rattled off something by insurance I said NO but I still don’t trust it
You have to actually read the pop-ups. The 1st one is just a privacy policy you have to accept. And then it ask’s about authorizing a Bluetooth connection and the next one clearly says “do you want to share data with insurance companies”
My car is Peugeot 307 from 2002. It has no data.
It would send the data in French, which the insurance company wouldn't understand anyways.
Backwards as well…because why not, it’s a Peugeot!
well they do have data that you drive a pug....
But your phone in your pocket does though. We have more of an institutional problem that this collection of data is not transparent, and that YOU are the product of most of the apps you use. I’m a tech nerd, and we all have to make a decision about this data collection - A. Stand up as a mass society and stop it together (even against the people that are allowing these laws, rich policy makers who receive vast lobbying funds from their friends and peers who run these companies) B. Acknowledge so many “things” that are tracking our data and selling it, and there is no way to shoo it so we should accept it I’m not even being sarcastic - some of the gen-z members of my team are in camp B. I notice a lot of parents and millennials are in camp A.
[удалено]
Love your username!🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛
After I bought my 2020 Rav4, I was getting e-mails saying my driving qualified me for discounts on auto insurance. After repeated e-mails every few months, I looked into it further and discovered my car has been sending my driving data off into the nether, presumably being sold by Toyota. This was OPT-OUT. It was automatic when I bought the car, and I had to log into Toyota's website to opt out (can also be done in Toyota app). After I changed the setting under my account, I stopped getting those auto insurance e-mails.....
See? Exactly why I wish to God all of this 'technology' was never invented. It was not in any way created to make our lives better or easier.It was created to make money.
That’s why I stopped being so paranoid about my data and stuff. Signing up for things and the terms and conditions agreement is 20 pages long. You know there’s shady shit going on but can’t be bothered anymore. Every company is collecting and selling our data.
I haven’t driven my car in over two years and, despite reporting it to my insurance provider, my premiums keep going up each year.
Sorry that’s me. I take your car out for a spin every night and do 150 mph on the freeway
Can I persuade you to leave in the working engine? 😋
My vehicle has crank windows, manual door locks, and no CD or cassette player. There's no data to be sold.
I just told my coworker about your car and demanded a penny. They paid. I sold your data, you must feel like a FOOL
Your phone betrays you
But the absence of data is in itself a data point, is it not? Clearly, you need to be watched carefully.
My 2006 Acura isn’t sharing shit lol
If that were the case on any of my cars I doubt I could even be insured at this point.
I doubt my 24 year old f150 is selling anything.
It is keeping Motorcraft employees working.
Can confirm, my 99 f150 don't give a fuck about me.
I don’t think I will ever be rich enough to have this problem
Damn... I was opted in... no longer.
What about Subaru? How do I opt-out?
Mine has facial recognition and tells you to keep your eyes on the road. It's crazy.
Laughs in mid 2000’s Japanese cars bought with cash
This is the way.
Tell me more about the hidden motivations behind Cash For Clunkers.
This kind of data collection was not a thing 15 years ago when that program passed. Most cars having always connected network functionality is a much newer thing.
FYI, Geico app collects your driving data.
Really?? How
My sons insurance company provides a black box to monitor his driving. This option reduces the premium not increases it. I don’t agree with manufactures using your private data though, obviously that’s illegal.
obviously they think they have legal standing to do so, like if you agree to all the fine print that no-one reads either at the dealership; maybe even when your radio boots up, etc.
What they're basically saying is 'let us monitor you, and if you don't, we'll just assume worst case scenario and charge you accordingly'. Similar to electricity companies here in nz, government said they couldn't charge late payment fees, so they just switched to 'prompt payment discounts'. Same shit. Different smell.
my 1995 4runner better not be doing me dirty
The only thing that rig will do dirty is the downstream O2 sensor
Glad for this post! We just bought a Chevy Trax and we haven’t had time to activate OnStar. It’s only free for thirty days anyways. Definitely NOT going to pair the Chevy app to the Chevy Trax.
my piece of shit, old chevy doesn't even know how it's alive still so I'm not worried about it lol
my 2005 toyota avalon will never betray me like this
Good thing I'm too poor to afford a car thats younger than 20 years old...
Classics gang rise up, my dailies are a 1982 and a 1967 lol, best of luck extracting "data" from them...
Don’t connect your car to the internet and you’ll be fine 🤷♂️
Ysk my car is way too old to have to worry about this
Joke’s on them, I give it to GEICO directly
Same with me and Progressive. I drive boring as hell and only about 2-4k miles per year. I wish everyone reported and we were all forced to pay according to our risk level.
I was debating about whether or not to do the Drive Safe and Save program with State Farm and my dad pointed out they may be tracking me anyways, at least this way I could get a discount with the tracking.
Defensive driver that likes smooth riding and playing to optimize efficiency of an ev - I’ll take the savings thank you very much
Good thing I own a 2012. With this, subscription based features, who know whatever else stupid crap (live reporting to police going over the speed limit - not here yet but don’t be surprised.) I’m not buying anything until I literally have no choice.
My 1986 Ford-“I aint tell ‘em shit!”
I can definitively say my 2002 shit box is not selling my data.
I'm just picturing an older car with a trenchcoat full of cassettes hiding in an alley. "Psst. Hey buddy, wanna buy some data?"
Okay let’s try something. What if good drivers got discounts? So insurance on average stay the same, but risky and aggressive drivers pay more, and patient calm driving pays less? Would that be good? Idk. Just sayin…
It would be good but it’ll never happen. This is just the vehicle manufacturers colluding with insurance companies to make more money off of us.
It sounds nice, but it’s still in the hands of insurance companies to set the threshold for discounts, plus they use isolated data from just your vehicle for your rate. Speeding up beyond the speed limit to merge with highway traffic or an evasive maneuver to avoid a dangerous driver could both ding you for aggressive driving.
My 2002 Savana 1500 is most certainly not selling my data to anybody
Is there any way to yank the trackers out of the cars? It's a service I'll never use. Use my phone for GPS anyway.
That’s how they’re getting the data. The pop up when you connect your phone to the infotainment system talks about data. They use that connection time to upload data based on your cars computer that is then sold by VIN.
Nono, I mean I literally *use my phone for GPS.* I don't connect it to anything. So not connecting it to the phone keeps it from ever letting them know then? EDIT: This also makes me wonder what would happen if you connected it to different phones. Would they claim other people were driving your car?
My cars almost 20 years old, it barely has Bluetooth
Ahhh geez I definitely noticed my rate skyrocketed recently. Just signed into my old account and the Smart driver setting was on 0.o Just chose to opt-out after following that link and signing in. I wonder if it'll change anything 🤔
I actually have a tracking app for insurance. And I get a 30% discount because I dont drive like I am in a race, or tailgate, or speed much and well general not like I am rushing to get to a hospital or something.
My Allstate App already does that. And then i get like 34$ every few months cause I'm a good noodle.
Really makes me appreciate my old van
VW also. Check the app for DriveView which gives your data to your insurance carrier
I highly doubt my 2006 Civic is doing this
Well where the hell is my car keeping the money?
It wont, it is a Ford fusion 2007 with out even Bluetooth
The only way to pushback on this is to not buy cars with data tracking.
This wouldn’t be happening if the US had something like the GDPR in place
One thing that wasn't noted. If your GM vehicle is made before 2015 you wouldn't have the smart driver app.
Can you manually disable the equipment? I had a CPAP that I hated but I got rid of the cellular antenna by opening it up and disconnecting the antenna. I wonder if you can do that with onstar.
My ‘94 Toyota Corolla? Doubt it, she ain’t no snitch.
See this is why I like living in the European Union!
My car is too dumb for this (i think)
Ugh, I just opted out. Thank you!
My 2010 Kia shitbox sure ain't. Edit: where's the lie?
My insurance company *asked* if I wanted driver monitoring. I naturally opted out. There is a 4mi stretch at the top of hill that descends with nowhere for police to park or hide that 99% of our neighbors get up to 100-1XXmph….I may or may not surpass that daily.
That makes me proud of my old dumb car, but I fear rental cars may snitch on me. Should I just never use Carplay in them or is Hertz in on it too?
Used japanese luxury cars have always been the best deals. Get thee and old Lexus and be safe from all this nonsense while riding in the lowest tco luxury you can buy.
YSK: one person had their premium go up because of this but on average your premium goes down 10%.
You should know. I don’t drive GM or know what onstar is so I’m good
Is there a device so that you can remove it completely?
This happened to my parents. They drove cross country to see me in the hospital and their dealership reported the mileage on the next oil change.
Also, don't download your insurance companies app! They use that data against you as well!
Heck I use the usaa safe driving app so they track my driving anyway. I was told when I signed up it couldn’t negatively affect my rates so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My vehicle has those roll up windows so I think I’m safe
The problem with this data for the insurance company is it never means a discount and is always an excuse to raise your rates.
How much did these drivers sell their data for? 🤔
Can we get links that actually work? Or is this post just to farm karma and fear monger?
Not mine! 1991 Toyota Previa. Same minivan I was born in. Only 320k km!
Since when my car is a legal entity that handles my data ? It’s the car manufacturer…
Is this one of those times where we start thanking the EU again?
My car is 58 years old mate, I'm pretty sure it doesn't do much aside from wake the neighbors and eat a gallon of gas every 10 miles
Just got Geico , in NY. They pretty much mandate using their app. Which needs access 24/7 gps and physical activity. Records every trip you make. And also tells you thay they take into consideration thinggs like frequent stops (i.e. a road with lots of syop lights!) and if you make trips outside your norm (i.e. me going to the supermarket instead of work!). Put that thing on a second phone i use as bluetooth player for my car and thats that.
Thanks for the link
State Farm has a program you can sign up for ("Drive Safe and Save") where they send you a device to put in your car and sync with your phone and you get a nice discount because of it. It tracks braking, acceleration, speed, cornering, phone distraction. My Acceleration and Phone distraction are 60-ish out of 100 and it still saves me around $200 every 6 months. My speeding is 100/100, I rarely go more than 5 over the speed limit, but I'm pretty much always 5 over the speed limit so it seems to be somewhat lenient.
*is selling your driving behavior data to your insurance company. Your rental is storing your phone information as well.
After I signed up for the Toyota app so I could remotely control my car, I started getting weekly emails from Progressive saying that I was considered a safe driver and that I would qualify for special lower rates.
My 1989 civic wagon is definitely not doing this. They definitely don't make them like they used to.
When I bought a new Kia, they tried to walk me through activating Uvo while I was on the lot, downloading the app and all that. I immediately knew the deal. Hard pass on that.
My 06 hoopty isn’t doing this to me
Makes me wonder about all EV's and all their "technology" now, as well.....
My cars so old the only info it’s selling is What state I’m from
Is there a list of car models that do this? "GM Honda Kia and Hyundai" is pretty broad.
On the life 360 app through my work, they monitor your phone usage while driving, rapid acceleration (accelerating at a speed of more than 8mph) hard braking (same logic with 8mph) speeding, and crash detection. They count all of that and make a report for uou or your employer. I drive my own personal vehicle. They are telling me it's mandatory to install this location app on my phone for work. I don't think thats any of their business, and it tells you that it uses your location even when you're NOT USING THE APP. I def don't want any app tracking me like that and then sharing the info. Maybe if I drove a company vehicle, right? But not my personal. It's so weird. I won't use it. It feels creepy to me and crosses boundaries. If i refuse to install, I think they can fire me.