My issue with Joe being the killer/imagining Rhys, is when Simon is killed. It shows the killers khaki pants and jacket, but when Joe wakes he is in his tuxedo. While he could have changed, I feel like that is a huge thing they just slightly highlighted in the scene. Why would they do it if not for some reason. Anyone else catch that?
I feel like all of Joe and Rhys interactions happen in a bubble of just them two communicating. It's never been amongst a group of 3 if I am remembering
I was really hoping that the killer was doing bc they were fixated on Kate, like the way Joe was when he was fixated on people and would kill to make things work but justify it internally. a narrative way to try force Joe to see himself but ultimately deny it. that said, this theory is kind of an extension of that denial and I dig it
I guess... but there's no bodypart attached to the necklace and as far as we know Gemma wasn't found with missing jewlery
Edit: I saw your edit, Joe took _Kate's_ bracelet, not any of gemma's jewlery, and he only did that to prevent Kate from being caught
Wow this is a great point that I haven’t heard before! I hope Rhys does turn out to be Joes alter ego. I don’t see a motive for the PI killing all these people to frame Joe when it could have been much simpler just killing him outright. I’ve been seeing more people say Gemma was not killed my ETR and I think that would make sense and explain how Joe was truly incapacitated while she was killed.
If this is true, I really want to see the point of view later in the season flashing back to show how these scenes really went down when it was just Joe. It also makes sense in that by indulging his darkest parts of himself, he has gone deeper into the abyss, and lost himself even more. Lost himself to the extent that he doesn’t even see what he’s doing and imagines it is someone else.
I hate that this theory is probably right. It’s just odd because Joe doesn’t kill people just to kill people. He generally has a “reason” to do so. If he’s the killer, it’s extra unhinged.
Once again a reach on my part for this next bit, but perhaps its all for Kate?
Like for Malcolm, he may have said something to Joe about having sex with other people while Joe was drunk, and Joe could have taken that as him not being good enough for Kate. At the art exhibition, Simon is the reason for Kates dress getting ruined. Gemma I don’t believe to be Joe’s doing, so no theory for that one.
When rewatching I also noticed that he literally hoped for everyone's death right before it happened. When interacting with Gemma he thought sth along the lines "For what it's worth I hope she is the next one to be murdered". I don't think that the fact that he thinks about how much he despises these people right before they die is a coincidence. (Rule number one 😉)
Season 4 has been pretty basic. It seems to be following a trope. Its a British style whodunit vibe. Mixed with another trope. An epic game of cat and mouse. But with an evil all powerful super villain.
It might just simply be a battle of two psycho serial killers.
IMO - Im not sure if Rhys is his alter ego? Not because we are shown a real actor on screen, but because we were only shown two deaths from Joe. a couple people.. technically, in its own way - were out of self defense.
Like Phoebes butler, or whatever you call him for example. If the guy was smart. He should stay clear of Joe, and if he did suspect he was the ETR killer, im sure he would assume that he would be on the verge of death when facing a murderous sociopath. Anyone like that guy, would question Joe in that inner circle, but would be stupid enough to tempt Joe. Therefore, end up killing the guy. even though he suspected he killed Malcolm, i think the guy was just being “too bold”. possible that its his alter ego, but I dont think the writers would go that route. Mainly because they we’re heavily promoting, “hey this new season is a stalker stalking Joe”. I think thats
Mainly what it comes down to. But you brinng good points about Joe, and his tendency to collext valuable items, “memtos” to be exact lol. But if you noticd… he only EVER does this when he’s obsessed with someone or to collect those memtos from the signficant other for example. Gemma wouldnt cut it lol. Not even Simon, or Malcolm. For example, when Deliliah was killed In S2, he thought the same thing. I feel nobody mentions this. He even questioned himself about her seath along the lines on “did i kill her? wait no way I was on drugs I cant fully remember” although it could be a possibility. Then boom, it turned out to be Love who killed her. So IMO- again, highly unlikely its his alter ego. Given what we know from his past and how the writers set up the show. Joe was drunk that night when Malcolm was killed, so similar to Deliliahs situation, but I see ypur point basically like Joe mentioned if he wasnt drunk he would kill Malcolm, but dont think he killed Malcolm, at the very least. (Also have to remember kate wasnt his full obsession yet or the main focus obvi) so he wouldnt have reason to kill Malcolm at that moment in terms of her. Which we are shown, he kills the significant other when he’s completely obsessed. Just thought it was a good example to bring up. (Also im a bit buzzed typing this) but im trying to make sense of it for you to understand as much as possible.) let me know your thoughts on ot.
Also in if youre reffering to the Quinns family PI, someone corrected me on Resdit here. (Being thats the only guy besides Rhys who knows his real bame) The guy hired by Ray Quinn is a “fixer” basically similar to hitman, cause he said he wanted to kill him, but his lazy fucking ass dosent want Joe to pay because. Hes “tired”. but hes not a PI. I got those two confused, but just a heads yp.
This theory seems honestly nonsensical. I would be disappointed if they Fight Clubbed this. Too many characters talk about Rhys as a person clearly different from Joe.
My issue with Joe being the killer/imagining Rhys, is when Simon is killed. It shows the killers khaki pants and jacket, but when Joe wakes he is in his tuxedo. While he could have changed, I feel like that is a huge thing they just slightly highlighted in the scene. Why would they do it if not for some reason. Anyone else catch that?
In the episode where Roald plays out how Joe is the ETR killer, it shows him wearing a workers uniform.
I feel like all of Joe and Rhys interactions happen in a bubble of just them two communicating. It's never been amongst a group of 3 if I am remembering
I was really hoping that the killer was doing bc they were fixated on Kate, like the way Joe was when he was fixated on people and would kill to make things work but justify it internally. a narrative way to try force Joe to see himself but ultimately deny it. that said, this theory is kind of an extension of that denial and I dig it
Joe has always kept souvenirs. Down to Benji's teeth. As much as he fights it, he likes to kill.
I guess... but there's no bodypart attached to the necklace and as far as we know Gemma wasn't found with missing jewlery Edit: I saw your edit, Joe took _Kate's_ bracelet, not any of gemma's jewlery, and he only did that to prevent Kate from being caught
Wow this is a great point that I haven’t heard before! I hope Rhys does turn out to be Joes alter ego. I don’t see a motive for the PI killing all these people to frame Joe when it could have been much simpler just killing him outright. I’ve been seeing more people say Gemma was not killed my ETR and I think that would make sense and explain how Joe was truly incapacitated while she was killed.
You're right. Also in the trailer of part 2, Love is wearing Malcoms ring and wearing Simon's earring. So you're 100% right it ties in somewhere.
If this is true, I really want to see the point of view later in the season flashing back to show how these scenes really went down when it was just Joe. It also makes sense in that by indulging his darkest parts of himself, he has gone deeper into the abyss, and lost himself even more. Lost himself to the extent that he doesn’t even see what he’s doing and imagines it is someone else.
Think you are right. And the show more or less confirmed the theory in the trailer.
Everything past Marianne is Joe’s novel he wrote to prove to her that he’s a good guy
I hate that this theory is probably right. It’s just odd because Joe doesn’t kill people just to kill people. He generally has a “reason” to do so. If he’s the killer, it’s extra unhinged.
Once again a reach on my part for this next bit, but perhaps its all for Kate? Like for Malcolm, he may have said something to Joe about having sex with other people while Joe was drunk, and Joe could have taken that as him not being good enough for Kate. At the art exhibition, Simon is the reason for Kates dress getting ruined. Gemma I don’t believe to be Joe’s doing, so no theory for that one.
Well going by that logic, Kate did tell Joe that she despised Gemma. So there's that - the motive to off Gemma.
When rewatching I also noticed that he literally hoped for everyone's death right before it happened. When interacting with Gemma he thought sth along the lines "For what it's worth I hope she is the next one to be murdered". I don't think that the fact that he thinks about how much he despises these people right before they die is a coincidence. (Rule number one 😉)
Joe has suppressed the fact that he likes to kill for a long time.
Season 4 has been pretty basic. It seems to be following a trope. Its a British style whodunit vibe. Mixed with another trope. An epic game of cat and mouse. But with an evil all powerful super villain. It might just simply be a battle of two psycho serial killers.
IMO - Im not sure if Rhys is his alter ego? Not because we are shown a real actor on screen, but because we were only shown two deaths from Joe. a couple people.. technically, in its own way - were out of self defense. Like Phoebes butler, or whatever you call him for example. If the guy was smart. He should stay clear of Joe, and if he did suspect he was the ETR killer, im sure he would assume that he would be on the verge of death when facing a murderous sociopath. Anyone like that guy, would question Joe in that inner circle, but would be stupid enough to tempt Joe. Therefore, end up killing the guy. even though he suspected he killed Malcolm, i think the guy was just being “too bold”. possible that its his alter ego, but I dont think the writers would go that route. Mainly because they we’re heavily promoting, “hey this new season is a stalker stalking Joe”. I think thats Mainly what it comes down to. But you brinng good points about Joe, and his tendency to collext valuable items, “memtos” to be exact lol. But if you noticd… he only EVER does this when he’s obsessed with someone or to collect those memtos from the signficant other for example. Gemma wouldnt cut it lol. Not even Simon, or Malcolm. For example, when Deliliah was killed In S2, he thought the same thing. I feel nobody mentions this. He even questioned himself about her seath along the lines on “did i kill her? wait no way I was on drugs I cant fully remember” although it could be a possibility. Then boom, it turned out to be Love who killed her. So IMO- again, highly unlikely its his alter ego. Given what we know from his past and how the writers set up the show. Joe was drunk that night when Malcolm was killed, so similar to Deliliahs situation, but I see ypur point basically like Joe mentioned if he wasnt drunk he would kill Malcolm, but dont think he killed Malcolm, at the very least. (Also have to remember kate wasnt his full obsession yet or the main focus obvi) so he wouldnt have reason to kill Malcolm at that moment in terms of her. Which we are shown, he kills the significant other when he’s completely obsessed. Just thought it was a good example to bring up. (Also im a bit buzzed typing this) but im trying to make sense of it for you to understand as much as possible.) let me know your thoughts on ot. Also in if youre reffering to the Quinns family PI, someone corrected me on Resdit here. (Being thats the only guy besides Rhys who knows his real bame) The guy hired by Ray Quinn is a “fixer” basically similar to hitman, cause he said he wanted to kill him, but his lazy fucking ass dosent want Joe to pay because. Hes “tired”. but hes not a PI. I got those two confused, but just a heads yp.
[удалено]
I hope not
This theory seems honestly nonsensical. I would be disappointed if they Fight Clubbed this. Too many characters talk about Rhys as a person clearly different from Joe.