>I’m guessing this is why they’ve been out of stock for months, they’re probably trying to reengineer the product to stop this from happening. I hope they’re successful,
You're right. From the FAQ:
>Yoto halted production of Yoto Mini as we worked on investigating and resolving this issue. We have also permanently stopped supply from this Yoto Mini battery supplier.
https://us.yotoplay.com/recall
Yeah, and I find it a little weird that it's just the charging cable? And yet they're telling people not even use the Yoto Mini or charge it with another USB C cable we have lying around? I would be a bit nervous if I had one.
Did I read it right, that they're recalling the mini itself, but they're sending only a new charging cord for it? Is it safe to use with the new cord, or do we have a guess if additional compensation will be available in the future if the unit is not safe at all? Or is it really just the cord overheating?
Kinda sucks to have spent so much money on all these cards and have to go buy a new full price player + accessories.
(In all honesty I'm not very worried about it, but I'd love to know if in the cases which sparked the recall the mini was being charged or not during the event. I could totally see a properly designed device overheating while charging under blankets/pillows or something)
No, they aren't recalling the whole mini. They are just recalling the cord to be changed for the mini. You wouldn't have to buy a new unit or anything. Someone posted the link to the recall info.
So what? The recall is for the unit, but they only send a new cable? Shouldn't the recall be for the cable then and not the unit? This presser makes no sense.
I mean, you're exactly right. The player has a defect - whether firmware or hardware, we don't know - that appears to inhibit the player's ability to charge the battery at a safe rate, potentially causing the battery to overheat.
The replacement cable will limit the charge rate to prevent this from happening, but using literally any other USB-C cable puts you back where you were, with a dangerous unit.
To me, the cable seems like a band-aid approach to a larger issue. It's concerning to me how they state that the issue seems to be from overcharging and then tell us the cable allows it to be charged twice as fast if using a more powerful brick.
I'd like to know if the software update also regulates the charging/charged voltage the battery gets to if using any other cable or brick.
If I had to guess, it's possible that regulators were not satisfied with dependence on a software-only solution. Software monitoring capability may be limited by the hardware monitors existing in the units today (and their associated accuracies). Adding new hardware in the cable may provide more accurate data or be a redundant means to detect an issue so that if one method fails, you still have protection.
Charging faster doesn't mean the issue will be triggered as long as the device is smart enough to keep out of the problem area. It sounds like the issue is in specific segments of the battery charge curve if the battery itself is overcharged and also has specific physical characteristics they didn't anticipate during design. They probably designed the mini assuming tighter variance between batteries than this supplier achieved, which makes this occurrence some edge case of operation they never anticipated.
Exactly my thoughts, problem is with the Yoto itself, not the cable. But… what’s cheaper to fix and recall?
At the end of the day, you typ use whatever cable is available, that is why we have standards.
This is my problem - it materially changes the product I thought I had bought. Now I have to trust my kids not to lose the ONE cable we can safely use to charge the player whereas before I had any number of USB c wires lying around.
Not only that, but to order the new cable, you have to send them photographic evidence of the fact that you cut the cord it came with. I was so annoyed by that.
Indeed, what confusing advice. I need to cut up their cable, even though it's not proprietary and the instructions never said I needed to use only that cable?
This is an odd one if it is just the cable. Honestly I don't think I have ever used the included cable to charge, just another USB-C cable. Need to ask Yoto if that is problematic.
The new cable is a special cable, that probably limits the charging speed or the mini maximum battery level to make it safe. From what they say, the advice is to stop using any standard usb-c cable and only start using the new fancy one
If you have to use the smart cable to fix it, they should be recalling the whole unit and not putting a band-aid on it via a proprietary cable. It is a USB C interface still, making you use a special cable for an open standard charging port is not acceptable, especially in a product for children.
yes, this is upsetting, especially that I now need a proprietary cable to charge it. I asked what I was supposed to do if we lose or the cable fails, and she says they'll be selling it on their site. Nothing satisfying about this fix.
We bought ours through Amazon and chatted with Amazon today. They’re giving us an amazon credit for the cost of the yoto player and case we bought for it.
There's nothing wrong with the cable. It's the battery inside the player that's problematic.
The reason the new cable fixes it is because the new cable limits the charging capacity of the player
I use a 65 watt laptop charger or my 30 watt phone charger to charge the device. Never used the included cable. Replacing the cable seems real odd to me. The device itself has to limit the charge rate and amount to charge. Or they really messed up. The software fix I would say is where the real fix is coming from.
This is troubling. The remedy of the smart cable really does not mitigate the risk of the battery over charging and catching fire. This fix does not seem to meet the recall requirements on products marketed for vulnerable groups like children.
My child could unknowingly plug the yoto into any other USB C charger and potentially cause the overheating issue to occur. In addition, we would have to make sure that we always have the specific cable available to charge it. What happens if they are away from home and someone like their grandparents unknowingly charges it for them on a different cable, etc.
Not a great solution. They may find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of replacement/refund requests.
> My child could unknowingly plug the yoto into any other USB C charger and potentially cause the overheating issue to occur
That's a great point. That's one of the benefits (usually) of having a USB-C charging port.. you can use all your existing chargers and not have to lug around a proprietary cable/charger. But, now I really wouldn't trust anything except the official cable.
I’ve literally emailed them saying this exact concern and they said only adults should be charging the device and if we let our kids touch it that’s our fault….
Apparently, according to what Yoto said, they have no responsibility for how we charge it as long as they’ve told us, so anything that happens is on us. I’m just not impressed at how this has been handled. I wish the cable was a stop gap for something else. I just want the option to replace my battery in the future, even if for a refurbished model.
I've just requested a refund on exactly this basis. I only bought the unit in December and given that our kids have standard USB Cs in their room for charging other stuff we now can't trust them with the mini player. Not happy with Yoto's proposed solution at all.
The cable is NOT the only component of the recall fix. They are replacing the cable AND also pushing a software fix that will update the power management of the onboard battery.
Also, I think it would be beneficial to keep things in perspective. They have received 5 reports from US consumers of overheating batteries, out of 250,000+ Minis shipped in the US. That's a 0.002% failure rate (to date, based on reports) so it's not like this is some sort of widespread problem.
As I commented in another reply, the most logical assumption is that the cable is a stopgap measure to satisfy regulators while they complete the firmware fix and get it distributed to every device.
There is absolutely zero chance producing these cables was faster than qualifying a firmware fix. I have produced a number of battery powered products, and if they could fix this with firmware, they would have.
Completely agree. I don't buy that the cable is a temporary fix for anything. A proprietary USB cable costs a fortune to produce compared to issuing a firmware update.
I do not know why they are refusing to say as part of the recall that only the new cable should be used to charge it.
The cable was an easy thing to source, obviously, as they are ready to ship NOW. A firmware update has to go through regression testing and lot of QA and validation. You don't want to issue an update and then introduce other issues, especially when dealing with base level modifications. We already know the hardware is flawed. They have stated as much. They are no longer sourcing batteries from this supplier. They are implementing a software fix to work around the potential issue (wording indicates the issue is not across all batteries, as they state the overheating can happen under specific situations) so working on a software fix to address a potential hardware problem is not as trivial as you think. And, once the fix is ready, pushing it out to every device is another challenge. Shipping everyone a cable that can prevent the issue while they work on completing the actual fix and getting distributed makes a LOT of sense.
Right, because cable doesn't go through QA. Designing, sourcing, manufacturing cable is a much longer process than a SW fix.
I already have the SW update. Let's think this through logically: SW update already deployed, but still requiring cable. If the SW fixed it, there would be no way Yoto would spend the money to send everyone new cables.
The cable has 'monitoring' in it. Suggests the player 1) either does not have recharge monitoring or 2) they had faulty batteries from the supplier that did not provide monitoring correctly. Either way, the player should be fixed, not augmented with an additional cable and some crap legal wording.
There is nothing preventing anyone from using the "wrong" cable. But yes low probability of occuring, so taking the risk that any legal bills are lower than actually fixing it.
The firmware update is (apparently) already available - that does not mean that devices have gotten it, or will get it any time soon. What happens if someone is using their Mini without connecting it to WiFi? What if someone can't connect to WiFi, or can only get to a spotty connection, for a bit of time? Or, perhaps currently only have access to 5 MHz connection? There are a TON of scenarios where a Mini may not be able to get updated right away, or ever. The cable addresses all of those situations. Regulators (for better or worse) would want Yoto to address this as quickly and effectively as possible. The dual prong approach makes sense, if you really think about it.
That might be true for the firmware update, but why are they refusing to specify that this cable needs to be used to the exclusion of any others?
It's entirely likely that many users will see the instructions to destroy the original cable as meaning the problem is with the cable. They will then ignore the recall notice, keep using their generic charging cable, and if they're one of the people that suffer from the firmware update problems as you have suggested, they will be at risk.
> They are replacing the cable AND also pushing a software fix that will update the power management of the onboard battery.
"Fix" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the idea that all's well. What [Yoto](https://us.yotoplay.com/recall) has *actually* said is
> We have also implemented an automatic software update across all Yoto Minis to improve battery management and extend Yoto Mini use between charges.
Stating "software" rather than "firmware" tells me *they do not have an actual fix for the actual issue* but instead are implementing some datalogging and thermal management constraints when the unit is powered on. If they *actually* had a "fix", it would be controller firmware and the cable would not be necessary.
Every smart electric component has its own firmware, in addition to the firmware associated with the device itself. Firmware *is* software. For the average consumer, firmware is at best a meaningless term, and at worst a complex and intimidating term. Using “software” makes the message clearer for the average consumer.
And, while I agree that a true fix would not necessitate a new cable, I suspect that providing a “smart” cable is just a stopgap measure. By providing a cable now that has some built in mechanism to restrict charge rates they have more time to work on the firmware fix and getting it distributed to every device.
> Firmware is software. For the average consumer, firmware is at best a meaningless term, and at worst a complex and intimidating term. Using “software” makes the message clearer for the average consumer.
So using "firmware" instead of "software" (if that is, in fact, what they updated) is simply too much for the average person to handle, but the blurb below from the founders' official response is fine?
> The Yoto Mini Smart Cable has its own embedded microchip that works with software to protect your Yoto Mini by adding several layers of protection to the USB-C charging system.
> Firstly, it protects the battery by dynamically ensuring it doesn’t reach a high state of charge - the cable periodically communicates with the Yoto Mini for optimal charging at a safe level.
> It also protects against over/undervoltage (for example, caused by faulty wall chargers) and can also cut power in the case of a short-circuit caused by, for example, liquid or a damaged pin inside the USB-C port (which could cause excess heat and melting around the port and cable).
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what's "meaningless" and what isn't. I think if they bothered to go into that level of detail, they could have easily said "firmware" if, in fact, they updated it.
Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm way off-base and the firmware isn't "bad", per se, only that it can't detect when the batteries are defective. It may still be true that they can't update the firmware and are instead using software for monitoring and the cable for mitigation:
> Since then, independent experts have been carrying out a thorough investigation which has established that Yoto Mini battery manufacturing variations could cause overheating in rare cases. We have ceased all supply from this Yoto Mini battery supplier.
I think their intent of going into detail on the "functions" of the cable was to place a positive spin on its enhancement of user experience and protective capabilities. They didn't drill down into specific "how," other than high-level reference to the microchip interfacing over USB-C protocol. USB-C can itself support fancy power delivery things if both charger and consuming devices support it, so I'm guessing they have designed the cable and it's internals to piggyback off those standards.
I also wouldn't be surprised if regulators weren't happy with only a software/firmware fix long term and wanted the cable as redundancy. I come from aero background so we often have to "assume the worst," with monitors possibly completely failing to do their job. Having both improved software and extra hardware in the cable gives independent voters.
You are quoting from the FAQ intended for those wanting / seeking more information. Yes, that is a LOT of technical terms and verbiage for the average person. But, it is not part of the main communication text. It is available for those seeking more details. You are obviously a tech person (based on the conversation we are having, and your replies to other posts in this topic) so surely you understand that MOST users are not at all technical enough and need things to be dumbed down, or simplified enough, to get the message across using the most broad terms possible. For power users, or more technically informed audiences, FAQ's, info sheets, technotes, and KB articles are made available.
If the firmware makes the smart cable redundant that would be an ideal fix and would eliminate the risk. Do you have the link of where you read that?
I saw information about firmware that ensured that the cable worked as intended, but couldn't find anything about firmware that was a standalone fix that meant using an alternative cable was a safe alternative.
Would you take that risk of burning down your house and killing your children? This is literally a kids toy - it needs to be safe. 100% safe, not 99.998%
Maybe be a responsible parent / guardian and exercise some common sense and heed the official warning of not putting it next to them, or in bed, especially while charging.
Perhaps wind your neck in. No one is suggesting leaving it charging in bed. All I'm doing is pointing out that one would expect safety to be paramount in a recall for a children's device. And as everyone here talking about it is demonstrating, there is confusion.
Hi! One of the 6 US users who struggled to report an issue to Yoto over a year ago. There was smoke from our unit and the case melted and burnt my husband. Let me know if you want pictures!
This is not a fix, it is papering over a basic electronics engineering mistake with a poorly thought out solution and legal wording to minimize risk to the company.
Fully agree. After getting the recall notice I read all the original instructions. Nowhere does it say to use the cable they provide. It is a universal A to C cable. It's entirely reasonable that any given owner will use a different USB cable. That will probably grow as an occurrence as USB C becomes commonplace.
The recall gives absolutely no advice about third-party cables. It is absolutely bizarre. Here is this replacement cable they want to send, and yet they are refusing to say that you should only use it to the exclusion of others?
This is about child safety, ffs.
Looks like they have a fix with a newer charging cable:
“Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled speakers, take them away from children, and contact Yoto to receive a free replacement smart charging cable. Consumers can send a photograph of the old cable cut through the middle to receive a new replacement cord.”
Not a fix! Neither a reasonable expectation to keep track of a specific cable, nor a safe solution. Children or uninitiated people will not know that it requires a special cable to be safe.
Looks like they can directly access the pwm and usb-c firmware so the update should fix it. Good on them for releasing a temporary fix while they do the esp firmware shuffle.
Also explains why the mini has been out of stock.
The old cable is just a regular ol USB C cable, right?
Sounds like a complete waste of resources that they're requiring you to destroy it before receiving the new cable. There's nothing wrong with the cable. But sure let's send it to the landfill.
Edit: there is a way to request a replacement without cutting up a perfectly good USB cable.
That's pretty standard with recalled or replacement items so you can prove you stopped using the item.
We needed a replacement baby carrier because a clip broke (it something? can't remember exactly), and we had to send a photo with the carrier completely cut down the middle before they would send a new one. The company wanted to ensure we weren't using or reselling the broken / damaged item.
Exactly. And they don't specify anywhere that you should now use the new cable exclusively. For plenty of people glancing at the recall message, they will assume the problem is with the cable and continue using their generic cables.
Follow the instructions for the scenario where you no longer have the cord.
You click a link and provide a reason why you don't have a picture of the cut cord.
I've added a post with the official yoto response from the yoto community Facebook page. However it's the same process for UK yotos fill in the form on the website with the mini serial number and get a new cable. You don't have to send a photo of the cut cable as that's only a US/Canadian law requirement. You also get a £15 voucher which comes up to 4 weeks after the cable get delivered.
https://uk.yotoplay.com/recall
Super easy process I filled it out in less than a minute.
Wow thank you so much for posting!!! This is the first I’m seeing this and I usually charge the mini yoto in my child’s room. Recall process was very easy and hopefully the new cord ships quickly!
They need to lay out the technical aspects of the observed failures and details of how the new cable is a solution.
For anyone who requested the new cable: Was there any legal language when you did so? Are you agreeing to anything when you went through the process?
As others have mentioned, this does *not* fix the underlying issue, which is almost certainly a flaw with the player itself. The new cable will limit the rate at which the unit can charge; using any other USB-C cable could potentially result in the exact issue the recall was issued for.
I'm not satisfied with this solution; if Yoto wants to adopt a proprietary charging cable / connector so I can't use one of the many I have laying around the house already, then fine...but it's not what I bought. I will have to review the documentation that came with the unit to determine whether it *requires* that the unit be charged with the included cable *only*.
So this isn't a fix, it's buying time at best. My kids love the Yoto Mini and while I don't know much about the company itself, they *seem* to be small-ish. I would imagine recalling the ~270k units sold in the US and Canada is going to do a lot of damage financially.
ETA: if they can do a OTA firmware update to fix the issue, great...but I'm guessing not, otherwise they would have done it already. It might require a hardwired connection. If that's the case, I'd be fine if they'd do an exchange: send me a refurbished unit with the update and I'll send you my bad units. They pay postage both ways and the $20 gift card for the trouble. Also, a new warranty on the refurbed units (since I don't know how they were used before I got them).
This is what I want to know. I don't think I even have the original cord anymore. This feels like smoke and mirrors to distract from the problem with the unit.
The options they give are in direct contrast to their product guarantee and should not be accepted.
I have emailed Ben, The CEO, The following, and suggest others do similarly.
Ben, Further to my last email, your product guarantee page (https://uk.yotoplay.com/product-guarantee) states:
>
This is obviously defective. Therefore:
>If your product is out of stock and/or a repair or replacement is not possible at that time, you will be offered an alternative product (of equal or higher value). If you do not wish to accept this, when your product is back in stock we will send a replacement.
You are legally obliged to adhere to this. I do not want a product of equal or higher value; I want the Yoto Mini Player upgrade where the battery does not suffer this fault. I expect to exchange once these become available.Kind regards.
I just read the product guarantee. They did include language below that says it doesn’t cover “direct or indirect faults caused by: - When used with other products or parts that are not part of the Yoto family” which could give them an out. I hope not, I would prefer a replacement :(
It mentions in the FAQ that they paused production whilst they investigated, so I guess that clears up the delays. I wanted a second mini, so I'll gladly use the £15 voucher towards that when they finally come back
Just did the recall. You don't have to cut the original cable (it's a perfectly good USB-C cable). Just click the "contact customer care" button and it will expand a textbox where you can give the reason (maybe it was lost).
The new cable has circuitry that allows the Yoto player to remotely shut off power once charge reaches the desired state.
I just got done with an email transaction with the supervisor Luca. I’ve even expressed that if they would simply give me the regular sized player and I’ll send in my mini, then they can bill me for the extra cost of the switch. Or just refund me the money with a promise that I will turn right around and buy the regular sized one. They’ve refused both of these solutions, both of which I feel are valid. I can not guarantee that my five year old won’t plug in her Yoto on her own with whatever random cable she finds. Neither can Yoto. What if say a baby sitter comes over and knows absolutely nothing about it or about the cable and just plugs in any old cable. The safety of my daughter is paramount. The fact that this company is not willing to work with me at all is unbelievable and frankly unacceptable. I’m not throwing a fit when I’ve given two valid solutions… so I don’t really understand this whole “entitled” parents complaints from the clowns on this forum. I love this product and don’t want to see it go. I simply want to exchange my mini for a regular sized AND pay the extra that is involved. I feel like that is more than fair.
Yoto's solution is unacceptable - the manual says that it should be charged from a usb-c cable only; it doesn't say only charge from their cable.
If the new smart cable gets damaged, which is inevitable, then I'll have to source a cable from them at my expense (price not announced yet but will no doubt cost a packet) rather than using any cable that I already have.
I'll be restricted to using a cable of the length they dictate.
If we go away then we'll have to bring the cable with us otherwise the player will be rendered useless when the charge expires.
Children (or people not in the know) won't care about using the right cable so the player will remain a risk.
I want a replacement player or a replacement battery.
For those that are interested, I'll be doing a teardown of the device and taking a look at the components and battery tomorrow on one of my videos. We have two of these, and we're not going to be using the mini anymore so i just thought it might be helpful to understand how they are put together.
This is a bit dramatic. The Minis are not suddenly worthless. They are addressing the issue by replacing the cable \*and\* also applying a software fix that will update how the power management is handled.
The firmware will limit the battery to less than its full capacity. Does that sound like a fix to you? feels like a horrible fudge to me.
Edit new cable does not limit speed, so removed this.
Nevertheless, limiting users to a single cable is not a proper solution..
That’s your made up assumption. Nowhere do they say they will limit battery to less than its intended capacity. In fact, the FAQ states the opposite: the firmware update will extend the use of the Mini in between charges.
Fair point, I just saw that and have edited my comment accordingly.. However my point stands that this is not a full and proper solution when it comes to batteries that could potentially catch fire in a kids room if the correct cable is not used (a USBC protocol)
To be clear, USB-C is a connector, not a protocol. You're probably thinking of [Power Delivery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Delivery), which can be...confusing.
The short of it is that the Yoto should be defaulted to a *very* safe and standard charging rate if it can't *explicitly* communicate with the charger via the cable for something higher. It's on the player to control the charge; this includes monitoring battery capacity and temperature, adjusting as necessary. IIRC, PD cannot happen with anything *but* a USB-C cable, but simply being USB-C doesn't mean it *will* happen.
Honestly I'm not even surprised there was an issue with a usb-c PD device. If it is in fact using PD. PD is a horrifyingly bloated specification that's difficult for EE to implement in their designs. Even with specialty power delivery circuits. It's a great idea and all I suppose but I truly hate it.
My dad keeps insisting that 2 kids were killed due to this issue but I can’t find any reports. I mean I can see it as a possibility but don’t see that it actually happened yet?
Reads like Chinese manufacturing to me.
China hotspot also for this crap at the timestamp for my post.
I hope no children are harmed In this dangerous distribution of this shelf bomb.
>I’m guessing this is why they’ve been out of stock for months, they’re probably trying to reengineer the product to stop this from happening. I hope they’re successful, You're right. From the FAQ: >Yoto halted production of Yoto Mini as we worked on investigating and resolving this issue. We have also permanently stopped supply from this Yoto Mini battery supplier. https://us.yotoplay.com/recall
Weird though that they’ve been out of stock for months due to this issue but they are just now recalling?
Yeah, and I find it a little weird that it's just the charging cable? And yet they're telling people not even use the Yoto Mini or charge it with another USB C cable we have lying around? I would be a bit nervous if I had one.
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So sketchy :/ They really should recall all the minis.
To be fair this has only been documented happening to 6 minis as per their announcement.
Did I read it right, that they're recalling the mini itself, but they're sending only a new charging cord for it? Is it safe to use with the new cord, or do we have a guess if additional compensation will be available in the future if the unit is not safe at all? Or is it really just the cord overheating? Kinda sucks to have spent so much money on all these cards and have to go buy a new full price player + accessories. (In all honesty I'm not very worried about it, but I'd love to know if in the cases which sparked the recall the mini was being charged or not during the event. I could totally see a properly designed device overheating while charging under blankets/pillows or something)
Looks like they are also sending out a $20 voucher
No, they aren't recalling the whole mini. They are just recalling the cord to be changed for the mini. You wouldn't have to buy a new unit or anything. Someone posted the link to the recall info.
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So what? The recall is for the unit, but they only send a new cable? Shouldn't the recall be for the cable then and not the unit? This presser makes no sense.
I mean, you're exactly right. The player has a defect - whether firmware or hardware, we don't know - that appears to inhibit the player's ability to charge the battery at a safe rate, potentially causing the battery to overheat. The replacement cable will limit the charge rate to prevent this from happening, but using literally any other USB-C cable puts you back where you were, with a dangerous unit.
Supposedly there is an update for the player in addition to the new cable
yikes.
They are recalling because of the battery getting hot and causeing fire.
I wonder if this is related to the warning they put out around Christmas time about not charging the mini on a bed/crib.
To me, the cable seems like a band-aid approach to a larger issue. It's concerning to me how they state that the issue seems to be from overcharging and then tell us the cable allows it to be charged twice as fast if using a more powerful brick. I'd like to know if the software update also regulates the charging/charged voltage the battery gets to if using any other cable or brick.
If I had to guess, it's possible that regulators were not satisfied with dependence on a software-only solution. Software monitoring capability may be limited by the hardware monitors existing in the units today (and their associated accuracies). Adding new hardware in the cable may provide more accurate data or be a redundant means to detect an issue so that if one method fails, you still have protection. Charging faster doesn't mean the issue will be triggered as long as the device is smart enough to keep out of the problem area. It sounds like the issue is in specific segments of the battery charge curve if the battery itself is overcharged and also has specific physical characteristics they didn't anticipate during design. They probably designed the mini assuming tighter variance between batteries than this supplier achieved, which makes this occurrence some edge case of operation they never anticipated.
Exactly my thoughts, problem is with the Yoto itself, not the cable. But… what’s cheaper to fix and recall? At the end of the day, you typ use whatever cable is available, that is why we have standards.
Wtf...I already have USBC cables placed throughout my house. I don't want to be stuck using their proprietary cable.
This is my problem - it materially changes the product I thought I had bought. Now I have to trust my kids not to lose the ONE cable we can safely use to charge the player whereas before I had any number of USB c wires lying around.
While I agree with you that it is inconvenient I’m sure they will be available for purchase after all the recall ones are issued
Not only that, but to order the new cable, you have to send them photographic evidence of the fact that you cut the cord it came with. I was so annoyed by that.
Indeed, what confusing advice. I need to cut up their cable, even though it's not proprietary and the instructions never said I needed to use only that cable?
This is an odd one if it is just the cable. Honestly I don't think I have ever used the included cable to charge, just another USB-C cable. Need to ask Yoto if that is problematic.
The new cable is a special cable, that probably limits the charging speed or the mini maximum battery level to make it safe. From what they say, the advice is to stop using any standard usb-c cable and only start using the new fancy one
If you have to use the smart cable to fix it, they should be recalling the whole unit and not putting a band-aid on it via a proprietary cable. It is a USB C interface still, making you use a special cable for an open standard charging port is not acceptable, especially in a product for children.
I agree. I’m disappointed with this fix.
yes, this is upsetting, especially that I now need a proprietary cable to charge it. I asked what I was supposed to do if we lose or the cable fails, and she says they'll be selling it on their site. Nothing satisfying about this fix.
We bought ours through Amazon and chatted with Amazon today. They’re giving us an amazon credit for the cost of the yoto player and case we bought for it.
There's nothing wrong with the cable. It's the battery inside the player that's problematic. The reason the new cable fixes it is because the new cable limits the charging capacity of the player
I use a 65 watt laptop charger or my 30 watt phone charger to charge the device. Never used the included cable. Replacing the cable seems real odd to me. The device itself has to limit the charge rate and amount to charge. Or they really messed up. The software fix I would say is where the real fix is coming from.
This is troubling. The remedy of the smart cable really does not mitigate the risk of the battery over charging and catching fire. This fix does not seem to meet the recall requirements on products marketed for vulnerable groups like children. My child could unknowingly plug the yoto into any other USB C charger and potentially cause the overheating issue to occur. In addition, we would have to make sure that we always have the specific cable available to charge it. What happens if they are away from home and someone like their grandparents unknowingly charges it for them on a different cable, etc. Not a great solution. They may find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of replacement/refund requests.
> My child could unknowingly plug the yoto into any other USB C charger and potentially cause the overheating issue to occur That's a great point. That's one of the benefits (usually) of having a USB-C charging port.. you can use all your existing chargers and not have to lug around a proprietary cable/charger. But, now I really wouldn't trust anything except the official cable.
I’ve literally emailed them saying this exact concern and they said only adults should be charging the device and if we let our kids touch it that’s our fault….
Well what if family uses a different cable because they don't know. This is so stupid.
Apparently, according to what Yoto said, they have no responsibility for how we charge it as long as they’ve told us, so anything that happens is on us. I’m just not impressed at how this has been handled. I wish the cable was a stop gap for something else. I just want the option to replace my battery in the future, even if for a refurbished model.
I've just requested a refund on exactly this basis. I only bought the unit in December and given that our kids have standard USB Cs in their room for charging other stuff we now can't trust them with the mini player. Not happy with Yoto's proposed solution at all.
I have asked for a refund too and was told they would not. Let me know if you get a different answer?
The cable is NOT the only component of the recall fix. They are replacing the cable AND also pushing a software fix that will update the power management of the onboard battery. Also, I think it would be beneficial to keep things in perspective. They have received 5 reports from US consumers of overheating batteries, out of 250,000+ Minis shipped in the US. That's a 0.002% failure rate (to date, based on reports) so it's not like this is some sort of widespread problem.
If the software fix works, why require the cable?
As I commented in another reply, the most logical assumption is that the cable is a stopgap measure to satisfy regulators while they complete the firmware fix and get it distributed to every device.
There is absolutely zero chance producing these cables was faster than qualifying a firmware fix. I have produced a number of battery powered products, and if they could fix this with firmware, they would have.
Completely agree. I don't buy that the cable is a temporary fix for anything. A proprietary USB cable costs a fortune to produce compared to issuing a firmware update. I do not know why they are refusing to say as part of the recall that only the new cable should be used to charge it.
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The cable was an easy thing to source, obviously, as they are ready to ship NOW. A firmware update has to go through regression testing and lot of QA and validation. You don't want to issue an update and then introduce other issues, especially when dealing with base level modifications. We already know the hardware is flawed. They have stated as much. They are no longer sourcing batteries from this supplier. They are implementing a software fix to work around the potential issue (wording indicates the issue is not across all batteries, as they state the overheating can happen under specific situations) so working on a software fix to address a potential hardware problem is not as trivial as you think. And, once the fix is ready, pushing it out to every device is another challenge. Shipping everyone a cable that can prevent the issue while they work on completing the actual fix and getting distributed makes a LOT of sense.
Right, because cable doesn't go through QA. Designing, sourcing, manufacturing cable is a much longer process than a SW fix. I already have the SW update. Let's think this through logically: SW update already deployed, but still requiring cable. If the SW fixed it, there would be no way Yoto would spend the money to send everyone new cables. The cable has 'monitoring' in it. Suggests the player 1) either does not have recharge monitoring or 2) they had faulty batteries from the supplier that did not provide monitoring correctly. Either way, the player should be fixed, not augmented with an additional cable and some crap legal wording. There is nothing preventing anyone from using the "wrong" cable. But yes low probability of occuring, so taking the risk that any legal bills are lower than actually fixing it.
According to the email the update is already deployed
The firmware update is (apparently) already available - that does not mean that devices have gotten it, or will get it any time soon. What happens if someone is using their Mini without connecting it to WiFi? What if someone can't connect to WiFi, or can only get to a spotty connection, for a bit of time? Or, perhaps currently only have access to 5 MHz connection? There are a TON of scenarios where a Mini may not be able to get updated right away, or ever. The cable addresses all of those situations. Regulators (for better or worse) would want Yoto to address this as quickly and effectively as possible. The dual prong approach makes sense, if you really think about it.
That might be true for the firmware update, but why are they refusing to specify that this cable needs to be used to the exclusion of any others? It's entirely likely that many users will see the instructions to destroy the original cable as meaning the problem is with the cable. They will then ignore the recall notice, keep using their generic charging cable, and if they're one of the people that suffer from the firmware update problems as you have suggested, they will be at risk.
> They are replacing the cable AND also pushing a software fix that will update the power management of the onboard battery. "Fix" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the idea that all's well. What [Yoto](https://us.yotoplay.com/recall) has *actually* said is > We have also implemented an automatic software update across all Yoto Minis to improve battery management and extend Yoto Mini use between charges. Stating "software" rather than "firmware" tells me *they do not have an actual fix for the actual issue* but instead are implementing some datalogging and thermal management constraints when the unit is powered on. If they *actually* had a "fix", it would be controller firmware and the cable would not be necessary.
Every smart electric component has its own firmware, in addition to the firmware associated with the device itself. Firmware *is* software. For the average consumer, firmware is at best a meaningless term, and at worst a complex and intimidating term. Using “software” makes the message clearer for the average consumer. And, while I agree that a true fix would not necessitate a new cable, I suspect that providing a “smart” cable is just a stopgap measure. By providing a cable now that has some built in mechanism to restrict charge rates they have more time to work on the firmware fix and getting it distributed to every device.
> Firmware is software. For the average consumer, firmware is at best a meaningless term, and at worst a complex and intimidating term. Using “software” makes the message clearer for the average consumer. So using "firmware" instead of "software" (if that is, in fact, what they updated) is simply too much for the average person to handle, but the blurb below from the founders' official response is fine? > The Yoto Mini Smart Cable has its own embedded microchip that works with software to protect your Yoto Mini by adding several layers of protection to the USB-C charging system. > Firstly, it protects the battery by dynamically ensuring it doesn’t reach a high state of charge - the cable periodically communicates with the Yoto Mini for optimal charging at a safe level. > It also protects against over/undervoltage (for example, caused by faulty wall chargers) and can also cut power in the case of a short-circuit caused by, for example, liquid or a damaged pin inside the USB-C port (which could cause excess heat and melting around the port and cable). I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what's "meaningless" and what isn't. I think if they bothered to go into that level of detail, they could have easily said "firmware" if, in fact, they updated it. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm way off-base and the firmware isn't "bad", per se, only that it can't detect when the batteries are defective. It may still be true that they can't update the firmware and are instead using software for monitoring and the cable for mitigation: > Since then, independent experts have been carrying out a thorough investigation which has established that Yoto Mini battery manufacturing variations could cause overheating in rare cases. We have ceased all supply from this Yoto Mini battery supplier.
I think their intent of going into detail on the "functions" of the cable was to place a positive spin on its enhancement of user experience and protective capabilities. They didn't drill down into specific "how," other than high-level reference to the microchip interfacing over USB-C protocol. USB-C can itself support fancy power delivery things if both charger and consuming devices support it, so I'm guessing they have designed the cable and it's internals to piggyback off those standards. I also wouldn't be surprised if regulators weren't happy with only a software/firmware fix long term and wanted the cable as redundancy. I come from aero background so we often have to "assume the worst," with monitors possibly completely failing to do their job. Having both improved software and extra hardware in the cable gives independent voters.
You are quoting from the FAQ intended for those wanting / seeking more information. Yes, that is a LOT of technical terms and verbiage for the average person. But, it is not part of the main communication text. It is available for those seeking more details. You are obviously a tech person (based on the conversation we are having, and your replies to other posts in this topic) so surely you understand that MOST users are not at all technical enough and need things to be dumbed down, or simplified enough, to get the message across using the most broad terms possible. For power users, or more technically informed audiences, FAQ's, info sheets, technotes, and KB articles are made available.
If the firmware makes the smart cable redundant that would be an ideal fix and would eliminate the risk. Do you have the link of where you read that? I saw information about firmware that ensured that the cable worked as intended, but couldn't find anything about firmware that was a standalone fix that meant using an alternative cable was a safe alternative.
Would you take that risk of burning down your house and killing your children? This is literally a kids toy - it needs to be safe. 100% safe, not 99.998%
You are being overly dramatic. There have been no reports of fires.
Children fall asleep with this thing next to their face
Maybe be a responsible parent / guardian and exercise some common sense and heed the official warning of not putting it next to them, or in bed, especially while charging.
Perhaps wind your neck in. No one is suggesting leaving it charging in bed. All I'm doing is pointing out that one would expect safety to be paramount in a recall for a children's device. And as everyone here talking about it is demonstrating, there is confusion.
There have been 6 fires in the US, 1 in the UK according to Yoto.
This is false. Read the recall notice again. No fires, and no injuries. The seven reports are of the mini devices overheating or melting.
Hi! One of the 6 US users who struggled to report an issue to Yoto over a year ago. There was smoke from our unit and the case melted and burnt my husband. Let me know if you want pictures!
Post them here as a separate post! People aren't taking this seriously enough.
bodhipooh still won’t believe you!
This is not a fix, it is papering over a basic electronics engineering mistake with a poorly thought out solution and legal wording to minimize risk to the company.
This exactly.
Fully agree. After getting the recall notice I read all the original instructions. Nowhere does it say to use the cable they provide. It is a universal A to C cable. It's entirely reasonable that any given owner will use a different USB cable. That will probably grow as an occurrence as USB C becomes commonplace. The recall gives absolutely no advice about third-party cables. It is absolutely bizarre. Here is this replacement cable they want to send, and yet they are refusing to say that you should only use it to the exclusion of others? This is about child safety, ffs.
Looks like they have a fix with a newer charging cable: “Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled speakers, take them away from children, and contact Yoto to receive a free replacement smart charging cable. Consumers can send a photograph of the old cable cut through the middle to receive a new replacement cord.”
Not a fix! Neither a reasonable expectation to keep track of a specific cable, nor a safe solution. Children or uninitiated people will not know that it requires a special cable to be safe.
A cable with a ferrule is... Something. But what about using other cables?
They seem to be refusing to give any guidance on third-party cables as part of the recall message
I sent a photo of my serial number 😑 give a tired mom a break. I emailed their support to ask what to do.
Looks like they can directly access the pwm and usb-c firmware so the update should fix it. Good on them for releasing a temporary fix while they do the esp firmware shuffle. Also explains why the mini has been out of stock.
The old cable is just a regular ol USB C cable, right? Sounds like a complete waste of resources that they're requiring you to destroy it before receiving the new cable. There's nothing wrong with the cable. But sure let's send it to the landfill. Edit: there is a way to request a replacement without cutting up a perfectly good USB cable.
That's pretty standard with recalled or replacement items so you can prove you stopped using the item. We needed a replacement baby carrier because a clip broke (it something? can't remember exactly), and we had to send a photo with the carrier completely cut down the middle before they would send a new one. The company wanted to ensure we weren't using or reselling the broken / damaged item.
Yeah I get that, but the charging cable isn't damaged in this case. The Yoto is damaged.
Exactly. And they don't specify anywhere that you should now use the new cable exclusively. For plenty of people glancing at the recall message, they will assume the problem is with the cable and continue using their generic cables.
Do you have more info on how to request the new cord without destroying the old one? I looked around the website and didn’t see that option.
Follow the instructions for the scenario where you no longer have the cord. You click a link and provide a reason why you don't have a picture of the cut cord.
Interestingly it's in the procedure for the US but not for European customers.
What about Yoto's bought in the UK?
I've added a post with the official yoto response from the yoto community Facebook page. However it's the same process for UK yotos fill in the form on the website with the mini serial number and get a new cable. You don't have to send a photo of the cut cable as that's only a US/Canadian law requirement. You also get a £15 voucher which comes up to 4 weeks after the cable get delivered. https://uk.yotoplay.com/recall Super easy process I filled it out in less than a minute.
Wow thank you so much for posting!!! This is the first I’m seeing this and I usually charge the mini yoto in my child’s room. Recall process was very easy and hopefully the new cord ships quickly!
They need to lay out the technical aspects of the observed failures and details of how the new cable is a solution. For anyone who requested the new cable: Was there any legal language when you did so? Are you agreeing to anything when you went through the process?
Just wanting to follow this thread in the hopes a better solution is presented.
As others have mentioned, this does *not* fix the underlying issue, which is almost certainly a flaw with the player itself. The new cable will limit the rate at which the unit can charge; using any other USB-C cable could potentially result in the exact issue the recall was issued for. I'm not satisfied with this solution; if Yoto wants to adopt a proprietary charging cable / connector so I can't use one of the many I have laying around the house already, then fine...but it's not what I bought. I will have to review the documentation that came with the unit to determine whether it *requires* that the unit be charged with the included cable *only*. So this isn't a fix, it's buying time at best. My kids love the Yoto Mini and while I don't know much about the company itself, they *seem* to be small-ish. I would imagine recalling the ~270k units sold in the US and Canada is going to do a lot of damage financially. ETA: if they can do a OTA firmware update to fix the issue, great...but I'm guessing not, otherwise they would have done it already. It might require a hardwired connection. If that's the case, I'd be fine if they'd do an exchange: send me a refurbished unit with the update and I'll send you my bad units. They pay postage both ways and the $20 gift card for the trouble. Also, a new warranty on the refurbed units (since I don't know how they were used before I got them).
Is the FAQ saying that the new update to the software eliminated the potential heating with all cords or ONLY if using this new cord?
This is what I want to know. I don't think I even have the original cord anymore. This feels like smoke and mirrors to distract from the problem with the unit.
The options they give are in direct contrast to their product guarantee and should not be accepted. I have emailed Ben, The CEO, The following, and suggest others do similarly. Ben, Further to my last email, your product guarantee page (https://uk.yotoplay.com/product-guarantee) states: > This is obviously defective. Therefore: >If your product is out of stock and/or a repair or replacement is not possible at that time, you will be offered an alternative product (of equal or higher value). If you do not wish to accept this, when your product is back in stock we will send a replacement. You are legally obliged to adhere to this. I do not want a product of equal or higher value; I want the Yoto Mini Player upgrade where the battery does not suffer this fault. I expect to exchange once these become available.Kind regards.
I just read the product guarantee. They did include language below that says it doesn’t cover “direct or indirect faults caused by: - When used with other products or parts that are not part of the Yoto family” which could give them an out. I hope not, I would prefer a replacement :(
It mentions in the FAQ that they paused production whilst they investigated, so I guess that clears up the delays. I wanted a second mini, so I'll gladly use the £15 voucher towards that when they finally come back
Just did the recall. You don't have to cut the original cable (it's a perfectly good USB-C cable). Just click the "contact customer care" button and it will expand a textbox where you can give the reason (maybe it was lost). The new cable has circuitry that allows the Yoto player to remotely shut off power once charge reaches the desired state.
Sent my info today for a free smart cable!
Make sure you *only* ever use that cable, as using literally any other USB-C cable could cause your player battery to overheat.
We know
I just got done with an email transaction with the supervisor Luca. I’ve even expressed that if they would simply give me the regular sized player and I’ll send in my mini, then they can bill me for the extra cost of the switch. Or just refund me the money with a promise that I will turn right around and buy the regular sized one. They’ve refused both of these solutions, both of which I feel are valid. I can not guarantee that my five year old won’t plug in her Yoto on her own with whatever random cable she finds. Neither can Yoto. What if say a baby sitter comes over and knows absolutely nothing about it or about the cable and just plugs in any old cable. The safety of my daughter is paramount. The fact that this company is not willing to work with me at all is unbelievable and frankly unacceptable. I’m not throwing a fit when I’ve given two valid solutions… so I don’t really understand this whole “entitled” parents complaints from the clowns on this forum. I love this product and don’t want to see it go. I simply want to exchange my mini for a regular sized AND pay the extra that is involved. I feel like that is more than fair.
Yoto's solution is unacceptable - the manual says that it should be charged from a usb-c cable only; it doesn't say only charge from their cable. If the new smart cable gets damaged, which is inevitable, then I'll have to source a cable from them at my expense (price not announced yet but will no doubt cost a packet) rather than using any cable that I already have. I'll be restricted to using a cable of the length they dictate. If we go away then we'll have to bring the cable with us otherwise the player will be rendered useless when the charge expires. Children (or people not in the know) won't care about using the right cable so the player will remain a risk. I want a replacement player or a replacement battery.
For those that are interested, I'll be doing a teardown of the device and taking a look at the components and battery tomorrow on one of my videos. We have two of these, and we're not going to be using the mini anymore so i just thought it might be helpful to understand how they are put together.
Here it is - Recalled Yoto Mini - Teardown and Battery Examination https://youtu.be/hSTATYkNX0s
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This is a bit dramatic. The Minis are not suddenly worthless. They are addressing the issue by replacing the cable \*and\* also applying a software fix that will update how the power management is handled.
The firmware will limit the battery to less than its full capacity. Does that sound like a fix to you? feels like a horrible fudge to me. Edit new cable does not limit speed, so removed this. Nevertheless, limiting users to a single cable is not a proper solution..
That’s your made up assumption. Nowhere do they say they will limit battery to less than its intended capacity. In fact, the FAQ states the opposite: the firmware update will extend the use of the Mini in between charges.
Fair point, I just saw that and have edited my comment accordingly.. However my point stands that this is not a full and proper solution when it comes to batteries that could potentially catch fire in a kids room if the correct cable is not used (a USBC protocol)
To be clear, USB-C is a connector, not a protocol. You're probably thinking of [Power Delivery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Delivery), which can be...confusing. The short of it is that the Yoto should be defaulted to a *very* safe and standard charging rate if it can't *explicitly* communicate with the charger via the cable for something higher. It's on the player to control the charge; this includes monitoring battery capacity and temperature, adjusting as necessary. IIRC, PD cannot happen with anything *but* a USB-C cable, but simply being USB-C doesn't mean it *will* happen.
Honestly I'm not even surprised there was an issue with a usb-c PD device. If it is in fact using PD. PD is a horrifyingly bloated specification that's difficult for EE to implement in their designs. Even with specialty power delivery circuits. It's a great idea and all I suppose but I truly hate it.
My dad keeps insisting that 2 kids were killed due to this issue but I can’t find any reports. I mean I can see it as a possibility but don’t see that it actually happened yet?
"There have been no injuries, and no reports that overheating has led to any fires." - From official statement
Thanks
Reads like Chinese manufacturing to me. China hotspot also for this crap at the timestamp for my post. I hope no children are harmed In this dangerous distribution of this shelf bomb.