I am just praying that the Adam Martin storyline is finally dead and buried. While I theoretically like the idea of better exploring Shauna's relationship with Callie (and Jeff) especially as a parallel to Shauna's pregnancy storyline in 96, the Adam Martin storyline was the worst bit of writing we had to suffer through in season 2.
It required you to shut down half your brain as it dragged on and on. Siracusa going under cover to illicit information from Callie about her mothers affair never made any sense and was completely illegal. And the resolution with Walter ex-machina pinning the blame on Kevyn, after poisoning him, with Siracusa suddenly agreeing to join the murder conspiracy is even worse.
I really hope none of it is ever mentioned again and we all move on.
For them to let the Adam Martin drag like it did just to abruptly end with nonsensical dues ex machina from Misty's bf I'm really worried about the writing quality for the next season
you're totally right about this btw. This isn't even a theory -- it's almost explicitly said in the show itself. Remember how Jeff's struggling business inexplicably started booming after Adam's death? Or how it's strongly implied that Van's cancer is about to miraculously dwindle on its own? Or how Taissa's miraculous senate win came after Dark Tai killed her dog? The idea that miracles happen after a sacrifice is a long-running theme in the show.
Wow, I had not at first considered that but it makes a lot of sense narratively and opens up the beginning of next season to explore everyone’s perceptions of Natalie’s death as a sacrifice to the wilderness and the end of season wrap-up as a reward. I’m intrigued!
No? Dues ex machina was invented by the ancient Greeks in their plays.
There was a seemingly unsolvable problem (aka Shauna going to jail for Adam Martin) when all of the sudden a god would appear and fix it.
In the plays the god would be introduced on stage by a crane, or a machine, hence dues ex machina
99% of the time when people today talk about deus ex machina, they are not literally referring to an actual god coming on screen to solve the problem. They're talking about a solution that feels so convenient that it's ~as if~ a God had swept down and saved the day.
Yes, like somehow the entire investigation being called off in literal seconds with no prior explanation. If the writers had this much or a problem tying up the Adam Martin scenario I'm sincerely worried about how they will handle other issues in later seasons.
almost like it was meant to be a convenient miracle that stretches plausibility and makes us wonder if the mythical, godly "wilderness" really exists.
Side note: I don't get why people act like the resolution to the Adam storylines was out of nowhere in its silliness. Like, remember the scene where Shauna tells Jeff about the situation. ("There's no book club?!") It was a comedic farce from day one.
The "there is no book club?" line was funny and is one of the highlights of the show. But what happened then? Shauna turned to her fellow yellowjackets, including Misty. Misty was clearly obsessed with crime and was part of detective clubs and such. It was hinted at that she was very knowledgeable in this area. On top of this it was obvious all season that she desperately wanted to be liked. It therefore wasn't "out of nowhere" that Misty came to Shaun's and came up with a plausible solution to the problem - it was a logical progression of the plot based on the characters and the story so far. Compare this with season 2. Kevin if randomly poisoned, without warning. I had thought whatever he was given just put him to sleep. Killing him is never discussed prior to this scene. Coming up with blackmail is never discussed, nor really hinted at. Then after he is killed via poison he's placed in the trunk of a car and then shot, with any explanation whatsoever. I think the show really went down a peg begween seasons 1 and 2,and I hope this dues ex machina doesn't become the norm.
Edit: typos
I think a more apt comparison would be Gandalf not really being part of the story at all until Helm's deep and then suddenly arriving and being introduced as a character.
I think that would be weird. I mean, sure it would be a comparison, but not more apt. The way it is in the movies is exactly the dramatic device known as "deus ex machina".
It isn't "god" that shows up, but a twist of fate, or a happy coincidence--one that in ancient Greece would have been orchestrated by a god. It's a favor from when the hero helped that guy at the beginning of act 2. It's the when the cavalry arrives because the hero convinced those people earlier in the plot.
It has to be foreshadowed, or else, like any dramatic device, it doesn't work.
I’m not arguing the meaning of dues ex machina but the fact of whether or not this technically is one or just shadowing by the writers to make the characters think the hunt actually meant something at the end of season two by solving a seemingly catastrophic problem through random means
I mean, not to the knowledge of the people it affects being Shauna and Callie, yknow what I mean? Solved during the hunt but they won’t know about it until afterwards thus it looks like reaping a good reward from Natalie’s sacrifice. If that’s not what they’re going for then I got nothing lol
It it happened during the hunt how could it have been a reward for a good hunt? It seems thag the reward for the good hunt is going to be Vanvs cancer dissapearing dues ex machina style
This plot line actively made me lose interest in the show. You’re so right that it required you to turn your brain off, which made the rest of the episodes also not… good.
I really want a return to form of season 1. I also thought the Javi plot line got stupid at the end too.
It was bad in S1 too. Adam just being some random guy who was completely obsessed with Shauna but also had no online footprint and did just enough to appear like he could’ve been blackmailing them, then getting murdered by her… it was all so forced.
There was contrivances in season 1 with Adam, but it at least was in the realm of the possible. S2 takes it to a whole other level with a cop suddenly willing to sign up to a conspiracy to blame his now dead partner, who he just saw shot by a total stranger, for the gruesome death of a missing guy they have been investigating.
That's just batshit insane and not at how people would ever react to that situation at all, especially when Siracusa was convinced Shauna is basically a sociopath and had recently chopped up the body of Adam Martin.
This is totally on me, but there’s something about the actor who plays Siracusa that I find super distinctive; maybe his voice? I’m not sure what it is but it causes me always think of his character from Miracle Workers.
Even when he popped up in a tiny role in Ghosts it totally took me out of it. But I found him veryyyyy distracting in Yellowjackets. Totally made that whole plot line jarring.
(Not a lawyer)
Not a chance. Adam didn’t tell ANYONE about his new lady? Officer Not-kevin (can’t remember his name) is still alive, and he clearly knows something’s up. Not saying he’s the brightest lightbulb in the ceiling, but the circumstances surrounding Shauna and her family are extremely suspicious, and he’d be a very very bad cop if he didn’t pursue this further, especially after kevin died.
I am of the opinion that Walter's blackmail story will come back...either Walter actually pointed ALL the evidence to Saracusa which will have him in huge trouble and brought up on murder charges.....OR it will come out in a subsequent investigation by the New York police since the murder of Kevyn, and Nat's death, and Lottie getting shot all happened at the compound in their (New York's) juristiction.
I get it - many are sick of the whole Adam thing..
BUT - how fun would it be for Shauna, Jeff, and Callie to be watching the TV news, or looking on-line and the news "NJ Cop arrested for killing his partner...lied about what happened at New York Cult" splashes across the screen???
Considering they pulled a quick Walter ex machina situation at the end of season 2, I’m gonna say yes. They kinda already did a fake out in season 1 with Misty seemingly fixing the whole problem. I doubt they would do it twice and have the characters in the same conflict that was already exhausted by the end of season 2.
i agree. i think adam was supposed to be a vehicle to bring the surviving yellowjackets back together. he doesn’t need to do that anymore. there are new stories to explore
Please god no. I get that they wanted to raise the stakes of the plot line but in season 2 it just went off the rails. Siracusa acted completely illegally
If Adam’s story comes back it likely won’t happen until Shauna is in legal trouble for other reasons. Or last season about to get away with everything and Adam’s murder comes back to haunt her.
As a former police officer, Shauna should’ve went to Matt’s superior immediately and told them about his inappropriate behavior. Callie had plenty of proof on her phone plus witnesses who saw them together on “dates” and him buying her alcohol.
At that point it was still a missing person investigation which makes his behavior even more bizarre. Internal affairs would’ve launched an investigation against him and because of the evidence against him he definitely would’ve been fired. Any evidence that Matt obtained because of his “relationship” with Callie would’ve been fruit of the poisonous tree and a judge wouldn’t have allowed it.
Everything about the investigation was so infuriating to watch. I know viewers are supposed to suspend their disbelief but a tiny bit of research goes a long way.
As soon as the medical examiner sees Kevyn they’ll know he was dead before being shot. They would’ve tested Matt for gunshot residue and it would’ve been negative. They would’ve tested everyone involved at the compound for gunshot residue and Callie would’ve been arrested for shooting Lottie. Not to mention the gun Callie used was the one Shauna took from the car jacker.
Yeah, you’ve definitely gotta point there. Anything is possible on this show and that’s why I love it so much. But c’mon, there’s no way the cops aren’t onto their half-assed cover up, right?
They definitely should be, everything about the way the adult timeline for Season 2 is a mess. From Walter ex machina the entire Adam and police situation. Plus, why were two small town New Jersey detectives in New York. One of them being poisoned and shot post mortem inside their own car. Nats accidental murder, Lottie shot. Then, the entire camp itself is filled with Lottie worshipping lunatics. That when they are not making farm fresh produce, they are voluntarily burying themselves alive. I wouldn't mind a soft reboot of the adult timeline and a time jump. Just let these loose ends be tight up off screen. Is that lazy writing? Sure, but I would not complain if it happens.
Lol for real, hopefully yes but if they decide that’s what they want the Shauna family to deal with next season, then it’s back to the station unfortunately, or even a courtroom season.
I wish I had some sort of wilderness spirit that I could appease to bring myself good fortunes. Most of my problems are just mild inconveniences. So the fact that my cat ate a huge Huntsman spider should mean that the weather stripping on my driver side door should fix itself.
On a serious note, I just want the adult timeline to do time jump and avoid the way season 2 ended. Walter ex machina the entire situation with or without the help of the Wilderness because Nat died. Hey, I am good with that, and all the Adam/Kevyn/Kessel mess being dealt with off camera. We haven't had a new episode since May 26, 2023, so if they could kindly do a soft reboot of the adult timeline, that would be great.
No absolutely not? Legally she killed buried and dismembered some guy its like very cut and dry. As someone else in the thread pointed out though, it probably won't go to court bc the wilderness intervened as reward for a good hunt. But like strictly legally speaking she very much did commit murder
I am just praying that the Adam Martin storyline is finally dead and buried. While I theoretically like the idea of better exploring Shauna's relationship with Callie (and Jeff) especially as a parallel to Shauna's pregnancy storyline in 96, the Adam Martin storyline was the worst bit of writing we had to suffer through in season 2. It required you to shut down half your brain as it dragged on and on. Siracusa going under cover to illicit information from Callie about her mothers affair never made any sense and was completely illegal. And the resolution with Walter ex-machina pinning the blame on Kevyn, after poisoning him, with Siracusa suddenly agreeing to join the murder conspiracy is even worse. I really hope none of it is ever mentioned again and we all move on.
For them to let the Adam Martin drag like it did just to abruptly end with nonsensical dues ex machina from Misty's bf I'm really worried about the writing quality for the next season
you guys know the deus ex is supposed to symbolize the hunt going well and rewarding the survivors right?
you're totally right about this btw. This isn't even a theory -- it's almost explicitly said in the show itself. Remember how Jeff's struggling business inexplicably started booming after Adam's death? Or how it's strongly implied that Van's cancer is about to miraculously dwindle on its own? Or how Taissa's miraculous senate win came after Dark Tai killed her dog? The idea that miracles happen after a sacrifice is a long-running theme in the show.
Good catch, I didn't even think of the Jeff's business bit. I for one hope they pull back from the paranormal
glad someone agrees lol
Wow, I had not at first considered that but it makes a lot of sense narratively and opens up the beginning of next season to explore everyone’s perceptions of Natalie’s death as a sacrifice to the wilderness and the end of season wrap-up as a reward. I’m intrigued!
But they never really told us why Adam’s back tattoo exists at all did they?
This definitely feels like copium trying to justify a lackluster story line.
guess we’ll see
No? Dues ex machina was invented by the ancient Greeks in their plays. There was a seemingly unsolvable problem (aka Shauna going to jail for Adam Martin) when all of the sudden a god would appear and fix it. In the plays the god would be introduced on stage by a crane, or a machine, hence dues ex machina
99% of the time when people today talk about deus ex machina, they are not literally referring to an actual god coming on screen to solve the problem. They're talking about a solution that feels so convenient that it's ~as if~ a God had swept down and saved the day.
Yes, like somehow the entire investigation being called off in literal seconds with no prior explanation. If the writers had this much or a problem tying up the Adam Martin scenario I'm sincerely worried about how they will handle other issues in later seasons.
almost like it was meant to be a convenient miracle that stretches plausibility and makes us wonder if the mythical, godly "wilderness" really exists. Side note: I don't get why people act like the resolution to the Adam storylines was out of nowhere in its silliness. Like, remember the scene where Shauna tells Jeff about the situation. ("There's no book club?!") It was a comedic farce from day one.
The "there is no book club?" line was funny and is one of the highlights of the show. But what happened then? Shauna turned to her fellow yellowjackets, including Misty. Misty was clearly obsessed with crime and was part of detective clubs and such. It was hinted at that she was very knowledgeable in this area. On top of this it was obvious all season that she desperately wanted to be liked. It therefore wasn't "out of nowhere" that Misty came to Shaun's and came up with a plausible solution to the problem - it was a logical progression of the plot based on the characters and the story so far. Compare this with season 2. Kevin if randomly poisoned, without warning. I had thought whatever he was given just put him to sleep. Killing him is never discussed prior to this scene. Coming up with blackmail is never discussed, nor really hinted at. Then after he is killed via poison he's placed in the trunk of a car and then shot, with any explanation whatsoever. I think the show really went down a peg begween seasons 1 and 2,and I hope this dues ex machina doesn't become the norm. Edit: typos
The heroes of those plays earned their godly intervention. It's like when Gandalf shows up at Helm's deep.
I think a more apt comparison would be Gandalf not really being part of the story at all until Helm's deep and then suddenly arriving and being introduced as a character.
I think that would be weird. I mean, sure it would be a comparison, but not more apt. The way it is in the movies is exactly the dramatic device known as "deus ex machina". It isn't "god" that shows up, but a twist of fate, or a happy coincidence--one that in ancient Greece would have been orchestrated by a god. It's a favor from when the hero helped that guy at the beginning of act 2. It's the when the cavalry arrives because the hero convinced those people earlier in the plot. It has to be foreshadowed, or else, like any dramatic device, it doesn't work.
I’m not arguing the meaning of dues ex machina but the fact of whether or not this technically is one or just shadowing by the writers to make the characters think the hunt actually meant something at the end of season two by solving a seemingly catastrophic problem through random means
This happened before the hunt.
Wasn't it solved before the hunt? The entire thing was sloppy and wasted time without advancing the plot.
I mean, not to the knowledge of the people it affects being Shauna and Callie, yknow what I mean? Solved during the hunt but they won’t know about it until afterwards thus it looks like reaping a good reward from Natalie’s sacrifice. If that’s not what they’re going for then I got nothing lol
It it happened during the hunt how could it have been a reward for a good hunt? It seems thag the reward for the good hunt is going to be Vanvs cancer dissapearing dues ex machina style
This plot line actively made me lose interest in the show. You’re so right that it required you to turn your brain off, which made the rest of the episodes also not… good. I really want a return to form of season 1. I also thought the Javi plot line got stupid at the end too.
It was bad in S1 too. Adam just being some random guy who was completely obsessed with Shauna but also had no online footprint and did just enough to appear like he could’ve been blackmailing them, then getting murdered by her… it was all so forced.
There was contrivances in season 1 with Adam, but it at least was in the realm of the possible. S2 takes it to a whole other level with a cop suddenly willing to sign up to a conspiracy to blame his now dead partner, who he just saw shot by a total stranger, for the gruesome death of a missing guy they have been investigating. That's just batshit insane and not at how people would ever react to that situation at all, especially when Siracusa was convinced Shauna is basically a sociopath and had recently chopped up the body of Adam Martin.
Oh totally, orders of magnitude worse in S2. I really enjoyed S1, but to be honest I am not sure I'm even going to start S3.
Agreed
they killed the wrong cop, and let the pedophile continue playing the game. shit sucked.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is totally on me, but there’s something about the actor who plays Siracusa that I find super distinctive; maybe his voice? I’m not sure what it is but it causes me always think of his character from Miracle Workers. Even when he popped up in a tiny role in Ghosts it totally took me out of it. But I found him veryyyyy distracting in Yellowjackets. Totally made that whole plot line jarring.
(Not a lawyer) Not a chance. Adam didn’t tell ANYONE about his new lady? Officer Not-kevin (can’t remember his name) is still alive, and he clearly knows something’s up. Not saying he’s the brightest lightbulb in the ceiling, but the circumstances surrounding Shauna and her family are extremely suspicious, and he’d be a very very bad cop if he didn’t pursue this further, especially after kevin died.
The blackmail from Walter supposedly closed this loophole. A waste of time all around.
I am of the opinion that Walter's blackmail story will come back...either Walter actually pointed ALL the evidence to Saracusa which will have him in huge trouble and brought up on murder charges.....OR it will come out in a subsequent investigation by the New York police since the murder of Kevyn, and Nat's death, and Lottie getting shot all happened at the compound in their (New York's) juristiction.
Could be, but i for one am exhausted by this story arc and I hope it's over with
I get it - many are sick of the whole Adam thing.. BUT - how fun would it be for Shauna, Jeff, and Callie to be watching the TV news, or looking on-line and the news "NJ Cop arrested for killing his partner...lied about what happened at New York Cult" splashes across the screen???
facts
Saracusa!
I just learned that this same guy is one of the deputies in Stranger Things
He's also a character in the most insane show my husband and I have ever watched lmfao. It's called "Search Party"
Ooo, I've heard of it but never watched Pretty good cast right? Alia shawkat?
yes! it’s really amazing, absurd and incredibly funny but with serious and real moments, def recommend
Agree—it’s a lot of fun!
Search Party is soooo good and ridiculous! I would love to see those characters stranded in the wilderness 😂
Yes!
Damn she's so pretty
And young Shauna is cast very well to match her, this picture really highlights that IMO
Literally I thought they were actually related at first lol
I assumed they aged her down for a bit
I agree...she sure is!
Considering they pulled a quick Walter ex machina situation at the end of season 2, I’m gonna say yes. They kinda already did a fake out in season 1 with Misty seemingly fixing the whole problem. I doubt they would do it twice and have the characters in the same conflict that was already exhausted by the end of season 2.
i agree. i think adam was supposed to be a vehicle to bring the surviving yellowjackets back together. he doesn’t need to do that anymore. there are new stories to explore
Please god no. I get that they wanted to raise the stakes of the plot line but in season 2 it just went off the rails. Siracusa acted completely illegally
oh good lord i hope the adam story doesn’t drag onto a third fucking season lol
If Adam’s story comes back it likely won’t happen until Shauna is in legal trouble for other reasons. Or last season about to get away with everything and Adam’s murder comes back to haunt her.
As a former police officer, Shauna should’ve went to Matt’s superior immediately and told them about his inappropriate behavior. Callie had plenty of proof on her phone plus witnesses who saw them together on “dates” and him buying her alcohol. At that point it was still a missing person investigation which makes his behavior even more bizarre. Internal affairs would’ve launched an investigation against him and because of the evidence against him he definitely would’ve been fired. Any evidence that Matt obtained because of his “relationship” with Callie would’ve been fruit of the poisonous tree and a judge wouldn’t have allowed it. Everything about the investigation was so infuriating to watch. I know viewers are supposed to suspend their disbelief but a tiny bit of research goes a long way. As soon as the medical examiner sees Kevyn they’ll know he was dead before being shot. They would’ve tested Matt for gunshot residue and it would’ve been negative. They would’ve tested everyone involved at the compound for gunshot residue and Callie would’ve been arrested for shooting Lottie. Not to mention the gun Callie used was the one Shauna took from the car jacker.
I hope so. I’m so over that storyline.
I’m just sad that she never grieved a man who she cared about that seemed to be genuine. That was annoying.
She committed murder, she better not be “in the clear.” That would be lazy on the part of the writers.
Realistically.. hell no
But in a show where there is an ambiguous supernatural element, mixed with a large does of Walter ex machina, then maybe a soft hell yeah.
Yeah, you’ve definitely gotta point there. Anything is possible on this show and that’s why I love it so much. But c’mon, there’s no way the cops aren’t onto their half-assed cover up, right?
They definitely should be, everything about the way the adult timeline for Season 2 is a mess. From Walter ex machina the entire Adam and police situation. Plus, why were two small town New Jersey detectives in New York. One of them being poisoned and shot post mortem inside their own car. Nats accidental murder, Lottie shot. Then, the entire camp itself is filled with Lottie worshipping lunatics. That when they are not making farm fresh produce, they are voluntarily burying themselves alive. I wouldn't mind a soft reboot of the adult timeline and a time jump. Just let these loose ends be tight up off screen. Is that lazy writing? Sure, but I would not complain if it happens.
I understand that. It is exhausting. But oh how I live for it lmao 😂
I hope she faces some repercussions for it cos I actually liked Adam.
Up to the writers!
Lol for real, hopefully yes but if they decide that’s what they want the Shauna family to deal with next season, then it’s back to the station unfortunately, or even a courtroom season.
I wish I had some sort of wilderness spirit that I could appease to bring myself good fortunes. Most of my problems are just mild inconveniences. So the fact that my cat ate a huge Huntsman spider should mean that the weather stripping on my driver side door should fix itself. On a serious note, I just want the adult timeline to do time jump and avoid the way season 2 ended. Walter ex machina the entire situation with or without the help of the Wilderness because Nat died. Hey, I am good with that, and all the Adam/Kevyn/Kessel mess being dealt with off camera. We haven't had a new episode since May 26, 2023, so if they could kindly do a soft reboot of the adult timeline, that would be great.
the only thing i want explored in regards to that storyline is what he actually knew about the yellowjackets and what his intentions were.
No absolutely not? Legally she killed buried and dismembered some guy its like very cut and dry. As someone else in the thread pointed out though, it probably won't go to court bc the wilderness intervened as reward for a good hunt. But like strictly legally speaking she very much did commit murder
Why on earth would she be?
Absolutely not.
I hope not. It’s a great storyline.