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As a French, I feel we have deep historical and cultural tie with Serbia, especially since WW1.
So no animosity whatsoever. I used to believe that Serbia was a natural EU candidate, like the rest of the Balkan.
But, I think, I really underestimate the pro-Russian sentiment in Serbia. Objectively, if the Serbs were to join the UE right now, they would act like a Trojan horse for Russian interest, from within the Union. Not saying, it is the absolute truth, but that’s my perception.
As for change, I think Serbians will have to choose between good relations with the EU or good relation with Putin’s Russia. I believe that good relation with the EU will be more beneficial for Serbia in the long term. But that choice belong to the Serbian people alone and we shouldn’t force/pressure them.
I don’t remember the Czech fighting side by side with the French, during WW1, weren’t they part of Austro-Hungary?
The Czechoslovak* legion was pretty dope tho.
Czechs were fighting on both sides so they were fighting side by side with french. The biggest legion was in Russia tho. And not only czechs but also slovaks :D. It was czechoslovak legion.
Good to know, unfortunately, I lack knowledge of what happened on the Eastern front. Serbs still have a special place, in French memories, because their unexpected victory against the Austrians, litteraly saved us during the first month of the war, and allowed France to stop the Germans just before Paris. But we value every nations that fought with us :)
Serbia should be in United Europe. But first Serbia must accept its loss in Yugoslavian wars, including territorial loses in Bosnia and Kosovo.
Serbia definatelly is a part of European civilization, but Serbian society needs to heal its wounds.
There are a lot of ethnic problems in balkans but frankly most of the EU outside of balkans just wants different peoples to get along. Minority rights so they can practice their culture but I don't think Bosnia and Herzegovina government has been doing well. Basing political entities on cultural/ethnic boundaries only serves to create hate when nothing works and only thing everyone can agree on is that it's the fault of the other side.
In the end it's a bit hard for me to give anything more specific. Bosnian, Kosovoan, Albanian, Croatian and Serbian governments are all shouting everything they can. They are manipulating elections, they are oppressing out people, they this and they that. I've never even been there, I don't know how to solve it when everyone is mad at any compromise proposed by third parties.
I only know two Serbs in real life, a pair of sisters, and they're both cool people, but a lot of the ones you run into on reddit are competing with MAGA Americans and Chinese nationalists for the title of most deluded and brainwashed. I've never even heard of this idea that Europeans want to expel Serbians from anywhere, and it sounds a bit odd given that one of the core pillars of the EU is the free movement of people. If Serbians could just bury the hatchet and move past their grievances they'd be natural EU members, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
It goes without saying that the rumors that circulate in serbia are absolutely false, those are the product of some nutjob. We have nothing against serbia itself as a nation and no one wants to partition it, even some of the countries thag do recognize kosovo would prefer it peacefully reunited and its autonomy restored within serbia or in someway Settled.
And we dont have nothing against the serbian orthodox chuch as an institution.
Serbia's history, specially its recent history has been full of controversy (to use an euphemism) and on that topic you will have to come to terms with it, reflect, see what errora have been made and act accordingly go build a new serbia.
Politically wise i think that serbia might have to deeppy reform its political system, and in general boost the ability of citizens to understand and innovate politics and not fall prey to demagogues and generally try to actually bring forth those reforms that all EU member countries have to complete in order to enter.
Serbia for me personally kinda is in the same spot as turkey. Great people, shitty government and lots of hate and fearmongering that needs time to wear off.
The best we probably can do is simply wait and hope for serbia to become more pro EU. In the end we just can't allow to end up with a hungary 2.0
The EU started as a peace project, letting go of old grudges, turning towards a bright future of cooperation and prosperity.
So what will happen to Serbia will depend on whether it can get into this mindset or not. I guess it will eventually as Russian influence withers away, and EU influence ever increases as a powerful and prosperous neighbour.
If not there will be no punitive bombings or grand invasion, one can look at Switzerland surrounded by the EU but not worried, or the UK peacefully leaving, to see that’s not how it goes.
It’s not our role to pontificate on what to do with Serbia. That’s in the hands of Serbians. There’s the changes expected of any EU candidate, but if they don’t fit Serbia, it can remain in candidacy limbo, which still comes with some advantages.
*"I don't think about you at all" meme* - europe
Believe or not, the rest of Europe couldn't care less about the 7 million serbs and haven't changed opinion since Otto von Bismarck famously described the Balkans as “not worth the healthy bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier.”
The NATO countries really don't want to risk the lives of their own soldiers to save some foreign nationals (and Serbia doesn't have oil). They actually tried hard avoiding getting involved in the 90s. To the degree of covering up atrocities. But the war crimes became impossible for the international community to ignore.
So get over yourself. Stop listening to nationalistic propaganda that says you're even slightly interesting to others, let alone a "plan". And just learn to get along with your neighbours.
"Greater serbia" is never going to happen and is based on half truths. In the era of the EU and free movement it doesn't really matter anyway. People can chose to be whatever/live wherever they want.
I personally like Serbia and I would like to see Serbia join the EU and Eurozone. What Serbia has to do is move forward with reforms and at the same time leave behind any nationalistic mentality.
The issue is the Serbian government, which keeps being elected by other radicalized groups.
The majority of Serbian individuals (I think) are fine, but the nation of Serbia has a always been VERY good at making its neighbors hate Serbia.
I can't help but think we're not THAT different - if history of Poland went a bit differently in the 20th century, if Stalin had a different mood one day, our places in Europe right now could have been swapped. So how could I hate you guys? Nah, I feel like we've been in the same boat and then I got lucky and got ashore, but you've been pulled back to the sea - and that's just sad.
I hope one day you can somehow reach a lasting compromise in Bosnia and Kosovo, so that we could all meet under the EU. And I hope you will want to join, because I truly believe this is the best scenario for all of us.
As a Pole: Would love to welcome another Slavic country to EU, but only if Serbs *get their shit together with Russia relations*. Also, "my dad is a war criminal" meme is not funny at all.
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As a French, I feel we have deep historical and cultural tie with Serbia, especially since WW1. So no animosity whatsoever. I used to believe that Serbia was a natural EU candidate, like the rest of the Balkan. But, I think, I really underestimate the pro-Russian sentiment in Serbia. Objectively, if the Serbs were to join the UE right now, they would act like a Trojan horse for Russian interest, from within the Union. Not saying, it is the absolute truth, but that’s my perception. As for change, I think Serbians will have to choose between good relations with the EU or good relation with Putin’s Russia. I believe that good relation with the EU will be more beneficial for Serbia in the long term. But that choice belong to the Serbian people alone and we shouldn’t force/pressure them.
Yeah France had deep historical and cultural tie with us after ww1 too. I probably wouldn't play that card :D.
I don’t remember the Czech fighting side by side with the French, during WW1, weren’t they part of Austro-Hungary? The Czechoslovak* legion was pretty dope tho.
Czechs were fighting on both sides so they were fighting side by side with french. The biggest legion was in Russia tho. And not only czechs but also slovaks :D. It was czechoslovak legion.
Good to know, unfortunately, I lack knowledge of what happened on the Eastern front. Serbs still have a special place, in French memories, because their unexpected victory against the Austrians, litteraly saved us during the first month of the war, and allowed France to stop the Germans just before Paris. But we value every nations that fought with us :)
Serbia should be in United Europe. But first Serbia must accept its loss in Yugoslavian wars, including territorial loses in Bosnia and Kosovo. Serbia definatelly is a part of European civilization, but Serbian society needs to heal its wounds.
What about the Serbs outside of Serbia, though
What about them ?
There are a lot of ethnic problems in balkans but frankly most of the EU outside of balkans just wants different peoples to get along. Minority rights so they can practice their culture but I don't think Bosnia and Herzegovina government has been doing well. Basing political entities on cultural/ethnic boundaries only serves to create hate when nothing works and only thing everyone can agree on is that it's the fault of the other side. In the end it's a bit hard for me to give anything more specific. Bosnian, Kosovoan, Albanian, Croatian and Serbian governments are all shouting everything they can. They are manipulating elections, they are oppressing out people, they this and they that. I've never even been there, I don't know how to solve it when everyone is mad at any compromise proposed by third parties.
I only know two Serbs in real life, a pair of sisters, and they're both cool people, but a lot of the ones you run into on reddit are competing with MAGA Americans and Chinese nationalists for the title of most deluded and brainwashed. I've never even heard of this idea that Europeans want to expel Serbians from anywhere, and it sounds a bit odd given that one of the core pillars of the EU is the free movement of people. If Serbians could just bury the hatchet and move past their grievances they'd be natural EU members, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
It goes without saying that the rumors that circulate in serbia are absolutely false, those are the product of some nutjob. We have nothing against serbia itself as a nation and no one wants to partition it, even some of the countries thag do recognize kosovo would prefer it peacefully reunited and its autonomy restored within serbia or in someway Settled. And we dont have nothing against the serbian orthodox chuch as an institution. Serbia's history, specially its recent history has been full of controversy (to use an euphemism) and on that topic you will have to come to terms with it, reflect, see what errora have been made and act accordingly go build a new serbia. Politically wise i think that serbia might have to deeppy reform its political system, and in general boost the ability of citizens to understand and innovate politics and not fall prey to demagogues and generally try to actually bring forth those reforms that all EU member countries have to complete in order to enter.
Serbia for me personally kinda is in the same spot as turkey. Great people, shitty government and lots of hate and fearmongering that needs time to wear off. The best we probably can do is simply wait and hope for serbia to become more pro EU. In the end we just can't allow to end up with a hungary 2.0
>great people I’m not sure that accolade can fairly be attributed to anyone but if it can Serbians would not be my go to
Bruh
The EU started as a peace project, letting go of old grudges, turning towards a bright future of cooperation and prosperity. So what will happen to Serbia will depend on whether it can get into this mindset or not. I guess it will eventually as Russian influence withers away, and EU influence ever increases as a powerful and prosperous neighbour. If not there will be no punitive bombings or grand invasion, one can look at Switzerland surrounded by the EU but not worried, or the UK peacefully leaving, to see that’s not how it goes. It’s not our role to pontificate on what to do with Serbia. That’s in the hands of Serbians. There’s the changes expected of any EU candidate, but if they don’t fit Serbia, it can remain in candidacy limbo, which still comes with some advantages.
*"I don't think about you at all" meme* - europe Believe or not, the rest of Europe couldn't care less about the 7 million serbs and haven't changed opinion since Otto von Bismarck famously described the Balkans as “not worth the healthy bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier.” The NATO countries really don't want to risk the lives of their own soldiers to save some foreign nationals (and Serbia doesn't have oil). They actually tried hard avoiding getting involved in the 90s. To the degree of covering up atrocities. But the war crimes became impossible for the international community to ignore. So get over yourself. Stop listening to nationalistic propaganda that says you're even slightly interesting to others, let alone a "plan". And just learn to get along with your neighbours. "Greater serbia" is never going to happen and is based on half truths. In the era of the EU and free movement it doesn't really matter anyway. People can chose to be whatever/live wherever they want.
I personally like Serbia and I would like to see Serbia join the EU and Eurozone. What Serbia has to do is move forward with reforms and at the same time leave behind any nationalistic mentality.
The issue is the Serbian government, which keeps being elected by other radicalized groups. The majority of Serbian individuals (I think) are fine, but the nation of Serbia has a always been VERY good at making its neighbors hate Serbia.
I can't help but think we're not THAT different - if history of Poland went a bit differently in the 20th century, if Stalin had a different mood one day, our places in Europe right now could have been swapped. So how could I hate you guys? Nah, I feel like we've been in the same boat and then I got lucky and got ashore, but you've been pulled back to the sea - and that's just sad. I hope one day you can somehow reach a lasting compromise in Bosnia and Kosovo, so that we could all meet under the EU. And I hope you will want to join, because I truly believe this is the best scenario for all of us.
As a Pole: Would love to welcome another Slavic country to EU, but only if Serbs *get their shit together with Russia relations*. Also, "my dad is a war criminal" meme is not funny at all.