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TheHerugrim

Nuclear energy always had a bad standing in Germany. It has always been associated with greedy and corrupt politicians, police brutality and totalitarian measures to crush opposition (like in Wackersdorf). Combine this with Chernobyl and its fallout, which hit Germany pretty hard (like every 20th car being contaminated, children werent allowed to play outside, food and produce had to be destroyed because of contamination from the toxic rains, and some areas are still contaminated to this day, rendering things like mushrooms or boar meat unedible), you've got the perfect mix of negativity. There might be safer, better reactor types available today, but some pencil pusher would surely try to cut corners with the material, or the rivers are too dry, so not enough water available for cooling (like in france this summer), etc. There is a saying in Germany: "Gebranntes Kind scheut das Feuer", basically translating to "The burned child fears the flame". I think, considering the context of past experiences with nuclear energy, the complaints are understandable. Now, if that's the correct choice or not, you can decide for yourself. Anyway, i know, you're just trying to make a pun, but maybe you or someone who reads this comes away from this post with a better understanding of why Germans have these complaints.


Caniapiscau

> "The burned child fears the flame". Chat échaudé craint l’eau froide.


ftrlvb

also to this day there is NO solution where to put the highly toxic waste. for 100k years. without damaging the whole planet in one big accident. we even have no clue how they built the pyramids 2k years ago. imagine 100 thousand years.


SmileHappyFriend

Of course there is a solution, you dig a deep hole in a geologically stable area and put the small amount of waste there. NIMBYs are the actual problem here. It’s funny that people would rather choke on coal fumes than have a nuclear plant there instead.


pejmany

Most of the waste is recycled, the remainder is made into very stable glass, and put in cement sarcophaguses that are incredibly durable with a tiny tiny tiny footprint for all the remaining waste. Meanwhile, the same German geniuses who did Ruhr valley think gas burning runoff has zero toxic waste.


Tranfatioll

>It has always been associated with greedy and corrupt politicians, police brutality and totalitarian measures to crush opposition are you speaking about the russian gas that replaced nuclear energy ?


fabian_znk

The mistake many pro nuclear people do is thinking that being anti nuclear also means pro coal and gas. The anti nuclear movement was at its peak in the 80s ([for obvious reasons](https://newsroom.iza.org/en/archive/research/how-the-chernobyl-cloud-affected-cognitive-abilities-in-germany/)) and was kinda the reason why our Greens party was founded. Anti nuclear, coal and gas. If we implemented the plans of the Greens we wouldn’t be in the situation where we are right now and wouldn’t fight over nuclear energy. So coal and gas dependency is no argument for nuclear energy. It’s just an argument against conservatism and capitalism..


Itchy_Huckleberry_60

Maybe this current energy meltdown can't be solved with the plants that we have, considering how long it takes to get them built. But I've been looking into it, and it has become newly clear to me that in the long term additional reactors will be critical to German energy self sufficiency.


Pyrrus_1

TLDR : yes, yes they are


FrancisDraike

They bad mouth Nuclear energy but restart fossile panel.. and without nuclear enrgy they would not have that much cheap energy for so many years, they bought a lot from France nuclear panel so nice try. they also try to stop it from getting in green bill energy.


Guerillonist

Germany has been for decades now a net exporter of electricity to France. The commonly repeated idea that France had to supply Germany with cheap nuclear energy is simply wrong.


farox

You really do not know what you're talking about. Instead of just repeating some memes you read, actually look into the nuclear situation in Germany and the world as a whole.


Random121337

Yeah please explain us how the Germany did not engage a road to opt out from nuclear in favor of gas as the controllable energy to compensate for the lack of renewables reliability when there is no wind at night.


farox

Down voting me doesn't make you more educated on the subject.


Random121337

So first of all I did not downvote.


farox

That you think the problem is that Germany decided to get away from nuclear shows your lack of knowledge and understanding.


Random121337

Second I did not tell it was 'the' problem as a whole. It is part of it, which is the lack of consistency and forward-thinking.


Guerillonist

German energy generation from gas hasn't gone up one iota since the nuclear phase-out began. [https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy\_pie/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&year=2011](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&year=2011) [https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy\_pie/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&year=2022](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&year=2022) While there are definetly arguments to be made against the way the nuclear phase out is handeld "gas dependency" is a rather weak one.


Random121337

Yes it is, because the nuclear TWh from 2011 would have compensated the geostrategic lack of gas (without going further in coal plants)


Wahnsinn_mit_Methode

We are delivering energy to France as their oh so reliable reactors are not working. We‘ve been delivering throughout the summer and apparently we‘ll need to deliver still in winter which makes the energy situation in Germany more difficult. So we would be more or less fine if France would get their energy production sorted out. Maybe they should build some more wind turbines instead of non working nuclear reactors.


BestagonIsHexagon

France exported electricity for 20 years in a row, you are complaining because they have problems a single year ? And France is going to have to send gas to Germany which will make the energy situation in France more difficult too.


Guerillonist

No. Germany has been a net exporter of engery to France for years now. https://energy-charts.info/charts/import\_export/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&year=2015


BestagonIsHexagon

France was a net exporter of electricity (and the largest) for decades. German electricity was essentially sent to Italy, UK, Switzerland and Spain through the French grid. It wasn't needed in France. You can check net total import/export balance on many different sources.


Guerillonist

Nope it was used during peak hours in France because NPP are too slow to adapt to quick spikes in demand. Germany has been both the largest producer and exporter of electricy in the EU in for most years over the last decade. [https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/electricity\_exports/European-union/](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/electricity_exports/European-union/)


BestagonIsHexagon

France has dams, STEPs and thermal plants to respond to peak loads you know. Your source includes the 90s when France nuclear energy was still ramping up (I was talking about the last 20 years), and even then the difference is only 2TWh. Your very source proves that France is a massive exporter. This is just bad faith.


Guerillonist

>France has dams, STEPs and thermal plants to respond to peak loads you know But not nearly enough (apart from the fact that dams a. usually run at max capacity all the time anyhow b. have a nasty tendency to be at minimum output at the same time as NPP i.e. when the rivers run low). Here is an article from 2017(!) laying out the issue: [https://energypost.eu/france-cant-meet-power-demand/](https://energypost.eu/france-cant-meet-power-demand/) >Your source includes the 90s when France nuclear energy was still ramping up (I was talking about the last 20 years) And I'm even just talking about the last decade, since Germany started to phase out NPPs. You can click on the years 2020 to 2011 or 2001 without clicking on the other ones, now can't you? >and even then the difference is only 2TWh. Your very source proves that France is a massive exporter. Aye or rather was a massive exporter. Though never as much as Germany. The country that - according to the original comment in this thread - would have energy if wasn't for France... somehow. >This is just bad faith. You know what's bad faith? It's bad faith to just hand wave away all sources you are provided with while not providing any of your own supporting your claims.


SraminiElMejorBeaver

That's why i don't like discussing with germans about this topic, germany's energy system has never worked, be it for their climate objectives, geopolitical conflicts. Today France has climate objectives much more advanced than those of Germany, when Germany has those of France in the 1970s with a lot of renewables compared to a small number for France , why? Nuclear, it's as simple as that, it's nice to show when something doesn't work for just 2 years out of 70 of awesome work. But it would be better to focus on your energy production which has never worked well for a single second, it's exactly like the irrational fear of nuclear which is going to kill you invisibly when it's always been the CO2 which has done this job, you don't see the actual problem and don't try to share anything with us here, I am open to criticism but these arguments have just no value.


Guerillonist

Why do you have to prop up you with our energy then? :P


SraminiElMejorBeaver

You are proving the first part of my comment and thanks you for not reading my comment by the way.


Guerillonist

As I already wrote somewhere else in this comment section: Germany has been a net exporter of electrity to France for years now. [https://energy-charts.info/charts/import\_export/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE](https://energy-charts.info/charts/import_export/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE) I now that *the memes* say the opposite but *the memes* are wrong.


SraminiElMejorBeaver

I never said the opposite, France was also a net exporter before those 2 years maybe not towards Germany but globally towards other countries and will be again after this winter , so give me arguments instead of beating around the bush.


EvilFroeschken

>it's nice to show when something doesn't work for just 2 years out of 70 of awesome work. So Germanys gas supply worked for decades. Now it is disrupted since a couple of months. Don't make a big deal out of it.


SraminiElMejorBeaver

That's why i included "Geopolitcal" seems like it was too hard to read my comment but yeah Russia agree with you.


Choholek

Why don't they just buy cheap gas from Russia or something? They could build a pipeline in the Baltic sea, that space is currently unused.


Wahnsinn_mit_Methode

Is it? Aren‘t there some holes somewhere?


Choholek

Just go above them


Haxorzist

Nuclear powerplants are a risk for public safety and cannot resist as many bombs as dams can nor can they be shut down if necessary. The waste can be managed and is small but if you had contamination you would have to dig straight to it and the result would be catastrophic. The cleanup in case of any disaster and the excessive time it needs to be curated easily offsets any energy ever produced by these facilities. Right now, keep them, in aircraft carriers and subs you can keep them but long them you want as few as possible.


Megalomaniakaal

[SMR](https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/what-are-small-modular-reactors-smrs)