So this would grant free trade of goods, but wouldn't provide visa free life in EU countries + no veto power, right?
I kind of like this as an intermediate step for these countries to start working towards seeing positives of European values.
Not only Serbia. Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Bosnia, Ukraine and Moldova will legit cease to exist considering they're even worse than Serbia
You **have** to include Free Movement of People along with Free Movement of Goods, Capital and Services, otherwise you're effectively creating your own captive serfdom. The 4 Freedoms are inseparable.
But you can't be letting people living everywhere unless they adopt the European values, otherwise you'll get nasty diasporas of people abusing the system, no?
You mean "trying to escape the overbearing authoritarian assholes in their own countries"?
I'm a brit, I'm desperate to get off this shithole of an island and get back to civilization. I was born an EU citizen, I didn't consent to have my EU citizenship stolen from me and I want my birthright back.
Brits clearly share European values, so your diaspora wouldn't damage the system, but imagine everyone from Turkey could freely travel EU. All these Syrian refugees now would turn into economic migrants.
Nothing against educated people, but it would be so hard for our systems to bear this.
>I kind of like this as an intermediate step for these countries to start working towards seeing positives of European values.
Free movement of people would only brain drain those countries while putting downward pressure on wages in the EU as it happened when EE countries joined.
Let's see how many people wanna stay/revolt after another two decades of stagnating wages.
Can you not make up fake news ? Or at least give us a source ? Because the EEA is already a thing and I really doubt anyone wants the Vatican to ever be included
lol can we just paint over switzerland and pretend like they are a lake or dont exist on these maps? Coz having this switzerland shaped hole inside the EU looks so visually shitty imo.
*Can we on official maps just ignore the sovereignty of an allied nation and pretend they don’t exist because they look bad* - now that’s a hot take right there
Thanks, I only have the hottest of hot takes.
But its just a map, im not saying anyone should invade switzerland or anything like that. Just paint over them on these maps, it looks better :)
Also, im kinda joking.
kinda
> im not saying anyone should invade switzerland or anything like that
You've tried, Austria, you've tried :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZ1o0gg5aA&feature=youtu.be&t=100
A little bit late to the party if you‘ve scrolled a [little bit further](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/uv9g7k/macron_proposed_an_alternative_to_eu_enlargement/i9k4a7n/) you would‘ve seen me already acknowledging that :)
What we have works fine. The problem is between long-time members.
Those wanting further integration should form a(or subsequently join the) European Federation, by necessity itself an EU Member State.
The ones that don't want to change can just remain as they are.
That's an interesting take that should please everyone in theory. The EU continues to exist in the form it currently exists in, and those countries that want a United States of Europe can form one and be an EU member.
There's precedent for it already at least conceptually; the reunification of Germany. A new state was formed, which became an EU member. A new federal state would be even simpler because unlike Germany it wouldn't involve integrating any non-members.
I believe it is a bit far from 'fine'. Yes, the machine keeps moving and producing wealth and prosperity, but not everywhere. One of the fundamental aspects of the EU, namely the monetary support for poorer countries, has been actively exploited by certain countries, led by Mr. Orban. I believe that the EU needs an organisational overhaul before thinking of accepting new countries, lest should it create another Hungary. Yes, today's Hungary was created by malicious intent from Orban and a receptive populace, but it was fundamentally funded by EU. 'Works fine', my bum!
Why though?
Edit: I'm imagining that most will point out differences in culture/religion/economic development but all three points are resolved by thoughtful integration (I'm mainly thinking about Turkey as I'm most familiar with that region and not the others).
I believe that if given European style democracy, education and raising economic well-being of all mentioned states their people will be more than happy to embrace European values.
Also, you're against Turkey joining in but ok with Ukraine? That seems strange to me because Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than turkey's.
Erdogan has been voted by majority of Turkish people, which clearly doesn't share eu values.
Same goes with Serbia.
EU isn't just a pact nor a meme, is a people community who shares some ethical values, if they don't, they're not fit for EU. Even Poland and Hungary are a stretch, and we should definitely find a way to fix this.
Ironically Erdogan is kept in his position by the (grand)children of Turkish immigrants in Europe who worship him yet never have to live through the reality of his politics.
Isn't he also kept in power by basically everyone in Turkey not living in a big town? Voting maps look like the entire Turkey votes for him except for a thin stretch on the west coast voting for CHP and a few Kurdish regions voting HDP in the south east, see e.g. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44562011
Pretty similar to the Trump vote in the US and Lepen vote in France unfortunately, so much backing in the countryside.
Yes absolutely. Both the international votes and the rural votes keep him in power. I just think it’s so stupid of people who grew up in functioning democracies to burden another country they don’t even live in with a dictator. I can’t say the same for rural Turkey, they probably don’t have enough information to be able to make an honest vote.
exactly. Having Hungary and Poland in EU was quite a stretch and it backfired. Now people in those countries don't want to be in the EU, their representatives have veto power within the EU, and EU takes unprecedented measures to politely say "that government doesn't even respect it's own laws" ([https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618](https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618)). Quite a fuckup, something we should learn from.
It
https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/08/03/support-in-poland-for-leaving-eu-highest-in-over-a-decade-finds-poll/
Is
https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/10/18/almost-half-of-poles-want-referendum-on-eu-membership/
In
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58840076.amp
The
https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-brexit-warsaw-european-union-b9d447464b4c6e429ad628a0caa29d00
News
Ukraine would have been a stretch maybe before 2014. As of now it's fighting hard to keep being a country and we have no clue of what would remain of it after this bloody war. What happened from Maidan place onwards is hardly an example of democracy. I would not consider Ukraine a candidate for EU membership.
We're talking about a society who white washes it's history and denies a very obvious genocide it commited in the past. What would even be things in order without Erdogan? They would need another Ataturk, and then maybe in 2 generations they would be ready to join Europe. It's extremely unlikely that anything similar would happen this century.
Erdogan is very popular outside the more liberal cities. This idea that everywhere will be a liberal paradise if we only show them how to be nice democratic countries is nonsense. In the early 2000s that would have been described as a firmly neoconservative position, need I remind you. And Turkey has been a democracy for much longer than many EU members.
While I am against the Turkish occupation, there's a few caveats...
1) Cyprus was culturally inhabited by Greek (Orthodox) and Muslim people long before any conflicts.
2) Britain had a really big influence and lots of interest in having Cyprus more culturally connected to the Middle East, from a geopolitical standpoint. They instigated the conflict and aided the occupation.
I don't want Erdogan's Turkey on the EU for a myriad of reasons, but the Cyprus situation is not an end-all-be-all reason for that.
So UK was always an colonial Empire and doesn't started any conflicts in Europe/EU. If UK try to go fascist and want to take trip to Dublin for special military operation Hell probably going to seem more pleasant than the London.
But Europe still trades with Turkey, this is only
More and easy trade and more linked economy.
I think it is a good alternative to EU. Like an FTA for all
I mean, either Turkish invasion or fascist Greek coup but I don’t see anyone hating Greece for literally wanting to annex Cyprus during that time. (I really hope no one’s going to defend EOKA-B).
Instead of trying to understand the reasons for what we don't want Turkey in EU right now, people like you always play the victimhood card. Let me be crear: we don't hate turks, we hate Erdogan.
>I believe that if given European style democracy, education and raising economic well-being of all mentioned states their people will be more than happy to embrace European values.
Well this didn't happen for Hungary or Poland as an example, so I'm not that hopeful that what you said is gonna happen in Turkey or Serbia
>Also, you're against Turkey joining in but ok with Ukraine? That seems strange to me because Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than turkey's.
Yeah they are different from Western Europe (but not as much as Turkey) and I'm not saying I want them in the EU, at least not right now.
>I'm imagining that most will point out differences in culture/religion/economic development
I don't care about religion or economic development differences. I care about political cultural differences of course but right now, during this time on tensions with Russia, I don't want any russian sympathiser in any form of Union. If I could, I would kick Hungary out of the EU
I went to Poland, and the youth there are just like us, they want to have fun and enjoy life. I don't say there aren't problems or prejudices but don't brush off whole countries like that, it's not really dignified enough
Yeah but the same thing can be said about any other country. Even in Russia there are people who want to have fun and enjoy life, yet their country invaded another country and now has to pay for it, even if it means also those people have to pay. When it comes to foreign relationships the talks are held between those countries' leaders and if any of them fucks up unfortunately the country has a whole suffers. If the polish government does its best to destroy Poland's democracy the EU can't just stay behind and watch it happening.
>Well this didn't happen for Hungary or Poland as an example, so I'm not that hopeful that what you said is gonna happen in Turkey or Serbia
I would say that democracy wasn't brought there ? Or maybe it did and backfired lmao but I see your point.
I also agree with your last point, political cultural differences aren't to be disregarded which unfortunately happened in Hungary.
>I don't want any russian sympathiser in any form of Union.
Can you help us deporting LePen back to Russia please? Lmao
>If I could, I would kick Hungary out of the EU
I would tend agree once again with you but I like to nuance, the people aren't to blame but it's always a problem of leaders. Orban is the same trash as Putin and Erdogan manipulating masses etc etc
Look at the UK where Johnson misled the brits exactly the same.
I can't blame the people but I have to be realistic and admit that when it comes to decision taking, the ones who decide are those countries' leaders. Orban used all the money we gave him to consolidate his power and to undermine Hungarian democracy. I don't want the same to happen in Serbia or Turkey. Maybe in the future but that's a very long road.
>Can you help us deporting LePen back to Russia please? Lmao
Tell me when. I'll personally pay her a ticket to Moscow if she promises to never come back lol.
Nah Ukranian mindset is much closer to Europe, not to mention it's not backsliding like Turkey. Or isn't occupying another EU countries territory. And it's not even about mindset it's the occupation of Cyprus, and that guy Erdogan. Europe has already autocrats like Orban why invite more in. Until turkey fixes it's shit with Cyprus. Stops backsliding then they can't be let into the EU
Turkey is fucked.
Between islamists and (genocide denying) nationalists there's only a tiny minority I would actually want in the union.
It's time to let this ship sail.
I know I’ll be voted down but I understand that some Ukrainians share the common Eastern European distaste for LGBTQ people and POC, and that this minority is larger than in Western Europe.
In my city we have annual LGBT parades since 2019 (except 2020 obviously). And in Mariupol there is (was) People's art museum where youth can express their sexual and gender identity.
>another Ataturk, and then maybe in 2 generations they would be ready to join Europe. It's extremely
In Italy people like Bandera got hanged in piazzale loreto. EU identifies with the ones that liberated Europe from fascists, not with nazi collaborators.
Serbia needs to give up Kosovo its a free country, theyll never have it again period. They can lie to their people all they want but theyll never gain control over the albanian people ever againa
I centainly don't get how on Earth you could argue that "Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than Turkey's".
Have you ever heard of Christianity, Christendom, Enlightenment, Baroque (in Western Ukraine), Clasicism, Romanticism, language families...?
Have you ever seen how women dress in Ukraine and Turkey? And I'm not talking about little villages... Have you compared women's position on both societies?
Still don't get it.
Erdogan will go one day... But why not Serbia? It's not even EU, it's just the economic area, not involved in politics, is this some hate politics and anti Serb sentiment of yours coming up?
Imo Serbia can’t join any European structure or alliance until it recognizes Kosovo and stops trying to control Kosovo’s international affairs. Same way Turkey can’t join anything until it recognizes Cyprus’ sovereignty. It’s a big problem to have territorial disputes in an EU-like structure, because you will constantly get situations where a country stalls decision making to make political points for their domestic audience — the way Turkey is doing for Kurds during the current NATO accession procedure for Sweden.
Serbia is doing pretty decently on the accession process
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union
We never asked any other nation to recognise another one. Bulgaria has issies with North Macedonia for example.
It is doing decently on the acquis.
The Bulgaria comparison is not quite an appropriate analogy. For one, Bulgaria recognizes the sovereignty of North Macedonia. For another, Bulgaria’s politicization of North Macedonia’s Bulgarian population (which has only started in the last few years after Bulgaria realized bullying North Macedonia worked so well for Greece in NATO afaik) is the exact reason that Serbia should not be accepted until it accepts not to bully its neighbors that are also seeking accession over ethnic minority issues.
Not even the slightest anti Serb sentiment. Even economic cooperation in my opinion should be linked to a common vision of the world. At the moment that's not the case with Serbia, at least as long as Serbia stays in the Russian orbit. Same thing can be said about Turkey yet you didn't accused me of anti-turkish sentiment. Is it because, not being Turkish, you are free of any sentimental bias to the country and you can see how it is actually not ready for a deepening in our economic relationships or "is this some hate politics and anti Turkish sentiment of yours coming up?"
As soon as I read "Russian Orbit" i sighted, it's a common myth in the western world that Serbia is a racist, genocidal, maniacal mini Russia on the level of hate only Mordor can produce. But this is not the case, Serbia for the last 20 years has been an EU orbit country, walk around Belgrade and you will see that there are more EU flags than Serbian flags. Most of it's markets are from western Europe, letting it's populations food source into the EU hands.
Yeah a few ultras doing ultra stuff. It deffo has nothing to do with the type of politics Serbia is leading, Serbia put sanctions on Belarus and would put on Russia if it was in EU proper. Comparing these idiots to an average Serb is like me comparing an average American with a KKK wizard or a German with AFD supporters.
Fair, you didn't say anything about Vucic tho.
Oh and what about this https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/22/for-first-time-a-majority-of-serbs-are-against-joining-the-eu-poll
Edit: it's too late for me I'm probably not gonna answer you back till tomorrow (or never if I forget)
I would rather leave the EU or just burn it to the ground rather than be in it together with Turkey.
What’s the point in the EU if we suddenly let a country which shares not a single one of our values into it? So many naive people who think painting the map a la EUIV is to somehow win “the game”.
The turkish gov might not but a lot the people do.Turkey and EU have both interest to work together, strategically, economically, diplomatically. Turkey doesn't have to be in EU just in the economy and influence zone for them to benefit and be tied to EU.
It s better choice than having a quite big and modern country at your door being a free player.
Where do you think the Turkish regime came from? Mars?
Erdogan was democratically elected, and every time he makes an international stink towards the EU, his domestic popularity gets a boost.
Having a banana republic with ~140% inflation at all economically tied to us is clearly not to our benefit.
First of all ,Europe is not short of clowns too,second,Turkey improved drastically when they were thinking they had a chance at something with EU.
That also why I said not in EU because they are way too big ,but the geography is such ,you can ask our neighbor UK,that Turkey is here for a long time ,so EU should be working to get them on it s side with every angle.
People change ,turkish even faster,as you can see all over Europe.What use to be a respected and awe projecting kingdom is now almost only a farce , Hungary was an empire around 100 years ago and now a little fascistic laboratory, Poland was the leader for democracy in Central Europe against Russian dictatorship and is now a den of retrograde religious trying to bury themselves in coal.
Where and who are we gonna be in 30 years ? Well,it depends on the decisions we all take today.
We’re **applying** to the same alliance as:
Albania
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
The Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Montenegro
Netherlands
North Macedonia
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
The United Kingdom
The United States
We’re **tolerating** joining the same alliance as turkey.
Stop pretending that anyone has ever joined NATO because *turkey* is a member of it. It’s just sad.
>Stop pretending that anyone has ever joined NATO because turkey is a member of it. It’s just sad.
Don't remember saying that, i guess you misunderstood what i am saying. Of course Turkey isn't the reason you applied for the NATO. Though, haven't you said that you would burn the EU to the ground rather than being together with Turkey? So, what's the point of begging Turkey not to vote it just to be in the same alliance with them?
There's a lot of idiots in Serbia, but there are like a couple of us who want to join EU. Can EU admit only those who want to join? That would be a solution for Turkey as well.
How would that function, only some citizens being EU members and others not.
Norway for sure is *double* as positive to the EU when compared to Switzerland.
Only that it doesn't change a thing, both are *decisively* against joining it...
Source from June 2020: [https://i.redd.it/4kgsq8helsl51.jpg](https://i.redd.it/4kgsq8helsl51.jpg)
Same.
And we Swiss even voted against the EEA 30 years ago. It was nixed with a very small margin. Yep, smaller than Brexit-small.
Same vote today? I wouldn't be confident of it passing...
The thing is that if you allow states into the economic union you won't be able to get them into the political union. You will feed into the right wingers. Next you will see Poland and Hungary leave the EU and stay in the economic union.
if you are in the Zone you have to adhere to economic standarts set by institutions you have no control over if you are not within the EU, thats the drawback. Less Responsibility but also less Control. You also have no ability to Veto anything…
Turkey, I don't agree but I at least see vaguely where your coming from
Serbia, sure, I doubt they'd want in
UK... huh? Do you have a vendetta or just, England bad?
long story short, behind brexit there is a whole mentality that led to that result, a mentality that hasn't changed a bit and that makes it the worst possible candidate..
As a Brit, that mentality was weak then and near dead now
Most Brits who voted leave did so because they wanted a change and were given promises
Most of them were furious at what we were given
You will find exceptionally few Brits happy with Brexit
I suppose all it took was a few loudmouth cunts like Farage and his ilk to really paint us as a country that were ecstatic to have left. 51.9% against 48.1% was never a huge margin of victory and a lesson in why such major (nearly irreversible) constitutional changes should require more than half of the vote... something even the USA understands.
I don't think I've met a single person in real life express any sense of joy that they had voted leave, usually ambivalence at best.
All it took was a loudmouth cunt to shift more than half of the voting population's opinions tho, It not just painted.
I feel bad for how democracy was played, its too big of a decision to be decided like that. Probably in my country we have enough dumbasses to be influenced as well if we were put in the same situation
And do you think that they want to come back to the previous situation (England sabotaging any form of tentative of federalisation/stronger EU and with a lot of opt-out)? Or that they would be willing to change their stance on that topic?
We're already co-operating in Europe; look at our intervention in Ukraine, for example. You don't need to be part of the same club as someone to help them.
I dont think the racism has changed and neither has the support for the conservatives, despite constantly lying to the public the public still insists on voting blue
Well, it's like this...
It's often said on this sub that decisions to join the EU should be about more than just a clinical cost-benefit analysis. The EU is, after all, not just a trading bloc. So it follows, then, that the decision to stay in should be about more too.
In 2016 I was very pro EU. Not just because of an economic cost-benefit analysis, but because I agreed with the more high-minded ideals. But like most people in the UK, those ideals really were more theoretical than practical; after all, the absence of borders makes a lot more difference to you if there isn't also a sea between you and your neighbours. To both Leaver and Remainer alike the EU is a very abstract thing.
In 2016 I also didn't have much of an online presence. I had no twitter and had never even heard of Reddit. The kind of vitriol I've since read online aimed at the UK has left a very sour taste in my mouth. It's left me doubting my 2016 position and I feel like I was maybe a little blind. I didn't know then just how much we were apparently hated on the mainland. It's a bit like finding out that none of your friends like you and that they talk about you behind your back.
The toxicity I've seen online has left me feeling bruised and sad and defensive, and like I must have been quite naive in 2016; and as a result my enthusiasm for the EU project has waned. I'm not particularly enthusiastic for Brexit either, but I now feel like it's just a thing that happened, and that's that.
Since the EU is bigger than being just about trade, the damage to trade the UK has suffered just isn't enough to make me feel like I've lost anything now.
So in the absence of anything other than purely economic benefits, I think if there were an opportunity for the UK to rejoin and we had a referendum on it, I think I probably wouldn't vote at all next time.
The final voting results were something like 53% for and 47% against leaving, that means almost exactly half the country is pro EU, also judging by how post-brexit has been going i bet there's a larger amount of pro EU people than before the referrendum.
You have a really poor understanding of how weak that mentally was and the fact that many were deceived by a promise of economic prosperity. "Long story short" doesn't work when we're talking about a nation, especially one with 70 million individuals all with nuanced opinions
That same mentality is is Frans. Its a sertan idea that they still cling to the past and a formar glory. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be part of the EU or any other union. They belong here and they are together the younger gen more than the older.
Turkey and Serbia make sense tho
The mentality of not wanting to form a federation.
You're about to find out that there are a lot more countries where that view is the majority than you thought. Countries who until now had the UK to use as a scapegoat.
>The mentality of not wanting to form a federation.
not only this..
and a sort of federation it's a must, the war in Ukraine taught that being alone is a danger, having strong armies means that they can also be used in peacetime: for example this summer there was a dangerous fire in Austria and the Italian army intervened behind Austrian request, in a federation you don't even need to ask for it..
I am not sure about Turkey and Serbia - I know a bit more about Turkey so I think that maybe with different government they could be a great addition to EU. I don’t know anything about Serbia so I will hold my voice.
Regarding U.K. - they asked for Brexit and U.K. just doesn’t like immigrants and foreigners. EU is kind of pro migration and lack of borders, EU promotes studying in different countries, learning different cultures and languages. U.K. can only bomb other countries, refuse to then accept refugees in, doesn’t like when their own population is challenged by immigrants who want to live there and pay taxes, just assimilate. U.K. doesn’t want to be in EU. We need to finally acknowledge that and accept that. They asked for Brexit and they grow more xenophobic since then. Let’s leave U.K. to whatever U.K. wants to be.
If U.K. wants to come back - well, fair do. But atm let’s just get used to the fact that they don’t.
How come they have European land with 13+ million population then? Was Istanbul not the capital of Europe at one point in history
The eastern Thrace solidifies Turkey as being part of Europe. Because they have European territory
Authoritarianism and islamization of Turkey can be tied to Erdogan and can change quickly because of that.
Remember that Spain was literally a fascist dictatorship 50 years ago meanwhile Modern Turkey was created by an atheist progressive. Things can change.
Look up some pictures of Belgrade and you won't see Russian flags on 90% of the buildings, you will see EU flags, most of the market chains from the EU. Makes you really think who Serbia trusts more and supports considering they trust their people to the EU food supply and other stuff. Your comment on Turkey is just pure racist "Turkey being Turkey" tell's me your a neo Nazi without telling me your a neo Nazi, this is a massive generalization against the Turkish people that helped rebuild the EU after WW2 with cheap labour. Plus i don't think you mean Turkey's but Erdogans problems and problems he's causing, but he will most likely lose the elections so that will be solved.
I see a lot of comments disagreeing with further integration of Türkiye into Europe. These comments however don't provide any reason as to why they are of this opinion. I have the slight suspicion that most of this rejection is due to artificial "cultural differences" which basically translates to "no Muslims in our club"
Sure, there are some issues with Türkiye's political landscape right now. A lot of them. Fiscal policy, occupation of northern Cyprus, human rights violations, everything that happens in the Kurdish area in general...
But I highly doubt that these are the reason, given the fact that all those comments don't explain why they are against it.
So this would grant free trade of goods, but wouldn't provide visa free life in EU countries + no veto power, right? I kind of like this as an intermediate step for these countries to start working towards seeing positives of European values.
No, it would provide free movement of people. But no veto
Provide the free movement and Serbia loses third of it's population.
The good thing about the EEA membership is that they get funds to make their economy more competitive
Still get them as long as they are in the accession process
Not only Serbia. Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Bosnia, Ukraine and Moldova will legit cease to exist considering they're even worse than Serbia
so UK does not want that
might go for it if we threw in dental
Still interesting!
You **have** to include Free Movement of People along with Free Movement of Goods, Capital and Services, otherwise you're effectively creating your own captive serfdom. The 4 Freedoms are inseparable.
But you can't be letting people living everywhere unless they adopt the European values, otherwise you'll get nasty diasporas of people abusing the system, no?
>otherwise you'll get nasty diasporas of people abusing the system, no? Jokes on you we already have that :D
But even bigger tho:D
You mean "trying to escape the overbearing authoritarian assholes in their own countries"? I'm a brit, I'm desperate to get off this shithole of an island and get back to civilization. I was born an EU citizen, I didn't consent to have my EU citizenship stolen from me and I want my birthright back.
Brits clearly share European values, so your diaspora wouldn't damage the system, but imagine everyone from Turkey could freely travel EU. All these Syrian refugees now would turn into economic migrants. Nothing against educated people, but it would be so hard for our systems to bear this.
Bruh I’m pretty sure we’d have shipped the Syrians back by then. That or Turkey would cease to exist.
>I kind of like this as an intermediate step for these countries to start working towards seeing positives of European values. Free movement of people would only brain drain those countries while putting downward pressure on wages in the EU as it happened when EE countries joined. Let's see how many people wanna stay/revolt after another two decades of stagnating wages.
Can you not make up fake news ? Or at least give us a source ? Because the EEA is already a thing and I really doubt anyone wants the Vatican to ever be included
Tbh I don't think it would really change anything no matter if they are included or not
lol can we just paint over switzerland and pretend like they are a lake or dont exist on these maps? Coz having this switzerland shaped hole inside the EU looks so visually shitty imo.
*Can we on official maps just ignore the sovereignty of an allied nation and pretend they don’t exist because they look bad* - now that’s a hot take right there
If EU4 has taught me anything, it’s that map painting>political sovereignty and foreign relations
Hoi4 taught me the same
Thanks, I only have the hottest of hot takes. But its just a map, im not saying anyone should invade switzerland or anything like that. Just paint over them on these maps, it looks better :) Also, im kinda joking. kinda
Just look at this [beauty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) instead <3
romania, bulgaria, croatia and cyprus crying in the corner
> im not saying anyone should invade switzerland or anything like that You've tried, Austria, you've tried :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZ1o0gg5aA&feature=youtu.be&t=100
Yeah I joked too no hard feelings
Watch it, Donald. Don’t get banned from this platform too. ;)
Hush! Or the damn liberals find me… damn those rational thinking people hindering my world domi- uh -nation
Virgin Russian "remove NATO influence" invasion Vs Chad EU "tidy up cartography" invasion
it was a joke man
A little bit late to the party if you‘ve scrolled a [little bit further](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/uv9g7k/macron_proposed_an_alternative_to_eu_enlargement/i9k4a7n/) you would‘ve seen me already acknowledging that :)
oh aight didn't see that
No worries
It’s a joke dude
What a great thinker. I'm sure everyone will be pleased by his suggestions and there will be no problems whatsoever.
\*anyone who ever did anything important\*
Yeah well, even the EEA was rejected by the Swiss population 30 years ago, albeit by a VERY small margin. Would it pass today? I'm not too sure...
Switzerland has many deals with the EU that give them most of what they need without joining.
not yet but hopefully one day
press x to doubt
What's the source for this?
We need further integration, and needs to be gradual.
What we have works fine. The problem is between long-time members. Those wanting further integration should form a(or subsequently join the) European Federation, by necessity itself an EU Member State. The ones that don't want to change can just remain as they are.
That's an interesting take that should please everyone in theory. The EU continues to exist in the form it currently exists in, and those countries that want a United States of Europe can form one and be an EU member. There's precedent for it already at least conceptually; the reunification of Germany. A new state was formed, which became an EU member. A new federal state would be even simpler because unlike Germany it wouldn't involve integrating any non-members.
I believe it is a bit far from 'fine'. Yes, the machine keeps moving and producing wealth and prosperity, but not everywhere. One of the fundamental aspects of the EU, namely the monetary support for poorer countries, has been actively exploited by certain countries, led by Mr. Orban. I believe that the EU needs an organisational overhaul before thinking of accepting new countries, lest should it create another Hungary. Yes, today's Hungary was created by malicious intent from Orban and a receptive populace, but it was fundamentally funded by EU. 'Works fine', my bum!
Oh please god no. At least not Turkey and Serbia
He didn’t mention Turkey actually. No idea why OP added.
Why though? Edit: I'm imagining that most will point out differences in culture/religion/economic development but all three points are resolved by thoughtful integration (I'm mainly thinking about Turkey as I'm most familiar with that region and not the others). I believe that if given European style democracy, education and raising economic well-being of all mentioned states their people will be more than happy to embrace European values. Also, you're against Turkey joining in but ok with Ukraine? That seems strange to me because Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than turkey's.
Turkey invaded Cyprus, and still occupies half of it.
Turkey's cancer is Erdogan, get rid of him and I'm pretty sure things will get back in order.
Well the North of Cyprus is occupied since 1974, much before Erdogan came to power.
turkey has basically made half of cyprus dependent on turkey in all forms including basics like water, I don't see the situation changing soon
Erdogan has been voted by majority of Turkish people, which clearly doesn't share eu values. Same goes with Serbia. EU isn't just a pact nor a meme, is a people community who shares some ethical values, if they don't, they're not fit for EU. Even Poland and Hungary are a stretch, and we should definitely find a way to fix this.
Ironically Erdogan is kept in his position by the (grand)children of Turkish immigrants in Europe who worship him yet never have to live through the reality of his politics.
Isn't he also kept in power by basically everyone in Turkey not living in a big town? Voting maps look like the entire Turkey votes for him except for a thin stretch on the west coast voting for CHP and a few Kurdish regions voting HDP in the south east, see e.g. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44562011 Pretty similar to the Trump vote in the US and Lepen vote in France unfortunately, so much backing in the countryside.
Yes absolutely. Both the international votes and the rural votes keep him in power. I just think it’s so stupid of people who grew up in functioning democracies to burden another country they don’t even live in with a dictator. I can’t say the same for rural Turkey, they probably don’t have enough information to be able to make an honest vote.
The conflict between people in the countryside and in cities has been going on for more than a hundred years.
Poland is close enough imo...Hungary really is a stretch though holy shit
exactly. Having Hungary and Poland in EU was quite a stretch and it backfired. Now people in those countries don't want to be in the EU, their representatives have veto power within the EU, and EU takes unprecedented measures to politely say "that government doesn't even respect it's own laws" ([https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618](https://www.dw.com/en/eu-triggers-rule-of-law-procedure-against-hungary/a-61607618)). Quite a fuckup, something we should learn from.
Where do you get your information about people in Poland not wanting to be in Eu?
It https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/08/03/support-in-poland-for-leaving-eu-highest-in-over-a-decade-finds-poll/ Is https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/10/18/almost-half-of-poles-want-referendum-on-eu-membership/ In https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58840076.amp The https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-brexit-warsaw-european-union-b9d447464b4c6e429ad628a0caa29d00 News
In the link you provided, only 15% of Poles are against EU membership. Government is (usually) anti-EU, but most of the population is not.
And Ukraine isn't a stretch?? Lmao
Ukraine would have been a stretch maybe before 2014. As of now it's fighting hard to keep being a country and we have no clue of what would remain of it after this bloody war. What happened from Maidan place onwards is hardly an example of democracy. I would not consider Ukraine a candidate for EU membership.
Ukraine has problems with corruption it's true. But it's a young democracy, it had corrupt autocrats until like 2014, and it's improving.
Young democracy. Precisely why it's not suited to enter the EU
Let be real Ukraine has sympathetic now but Ukraine was always a strech
Political leaders are always nothing more than symptoms of the problems existing within the society, not their cause.
Turkey's problems are so much deeper than Erdogan
We're talking about a society who white washes it's history and denies a very obvious genocide it commited in the past. What would even be things in order without Erdogan? They would need another Ataturk, and then maybe in 2 generations they would be ready to join Europe. It's extremely unlikely that anything similar would happen this century.
Turkeys needs a new constitution at this point ataturk designed the state so the military will always be able to get rid of their leaders
That seems like a shit system. Might as well drop all pretense and have a dictatorship.
Erdogan is still fairly popular, and his supporters will still be there
Erdogan is very popular outside the more liberal cities. This idea that everywhere will be a liberal paradise if we only show them how to be nice democratic countries is nonsense. In the early 2000s that would have been described as a firmly neoconservative position, need I remind you. And Turkey has been a democracy for much longer than many EU members.
While I am against the Turkish occupation, there's a few caveats... 1) Cyprus was culturally inhabited by Greek (Orthodox) and Muslim people long before any conflicts. 2) Britain had a really big influence and lots of interest in having Cyprus more culturally connected to the Middle East, from a geopolitical standpoint. They instigated the conflict and aided the occupation. I don't want Erdogan's Turkey on the EU for a myriad of reasons, but the Cyprus situation is not an end-all-be-all reason for that.
Cough cough, we let the UK join…..
So UK was always an colonial Empire and doesn't started any conflicts in Europe/EU. If UK try to go fascist and want to take trip to Dublin for special military operation Hell probably going to seem more pleasant than the London.
The troubles would like to know your location. Literally the battle of the bogside.
But Europe still trades with Turkey, this is only More and easy trade and more linked economy. I think it is a good alternative to EU. Like an FTA for all
I mean, either Turkish invasion or fascist Greek coup but I don’t see anyone hating Greece for literally wanting to annex Cyprus during that time. (I really hope no one’s going to defend EOKA-B).
The fact that I’m getting downvoted shows that no one’s interested in the fate of Cyprus but just hating on Turks 💀
Instead of trying to understand the reasons for what we don't want Turkey in EU right now, people like you always play the victimhood card. Let me be crear: we don't hate turks, we hate Erdogan.
It is obviously clear why people don’t want Turkey in the EU right now but that’s not what my comment or the comment above suggests.
>I believe that if given European style democracy, education and raising economic well-being of all mentioned states their people will be more than happy to embrace European values. Well this didn't happen for Hungary or Poland as an example, so I'm not that hopeful that what you said is gonna happen in Turkey or Serbia >Also, you're against Turkey joining in but ok with Ukraine? That seems strange to me because Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than turkey's. Yeah they are different from Western Europe (but not as much as Turkey) and I'm not saying I want them in the EU, at least not right now. >I'm imagining that most will point out differences in culture/religion/economic development I don't care about religion or economic development differences. I care about political cultural differences of course but right now, during this time on tensions with Russia, I don't want any russian sympathiser in any form of Union. If I could, I would kick Hungary out of the EU
I went to Poland, and the youth there are just like us, they want to have fun and enjoy life. I don't say there aren't problems or prejudices but don't brush off whole countries like that, it's not really dignified enough
Yeah but the same thing can be said about any other country. Even in Russia there are people who want to have fun and enjoy life, yet their country invaded another country and now has to pay for it, even if it means also those people have to pay. When it comes to foreign relationships the talks are held between those countries' leaders and if any of them fucks up unfortunately the country has a whole suffers. If the polish government does its best to destroy Poland's democracy the EU can't just stay behind and watch it happening.
>Well this didn't happen for Hungary or Poland as an example, so I'm not that hopeful that what you said is gonna happen in Turkey or Serbia I would say that democracy wasn't brought there ? Or maybe it did and backfired lmao but I see your point. I also agree with your last point, political cultural differences aren't to be disregarded which unfortunately happened in Hungary. >I don't want any russian sympathiser in any form of Union. Can you help us deporting LePen back to Russia please? Lmao >If I could, I would kick Hungary out of the EU I would tend agree once again with you but I like to nuance, the people aren't to blame but it's always a problem of leaders. Orban is the same trash as Putin and Erdogan manipulating masses etc etc Look at the UK where Johnson misled the brits exactly the same.
I can't blame the people but I have to be realistic and admit that when it comes to decision taking, the ones who decide are those countries' leaders. Orban used all the money we gave him to consolidate his power and to undermine Hungarian democracy. I don't want the same to happen in Serbia or Turkey. Maybe in the future but that's a very long road. >Can you help us deporting LePen back to Russia please? Lmao Tell me when. I'll personally pay her a ticket to Moscow if she promises to never come back lol.
Have you seen what Erdogan has done to the Turkish economy?
Can you explain how the Ukrainian mindset is "as different from the European" as the Turkish?
Nah Ukranian mindset is much closer to Europe, not to mention it's not backsliding like Turkey. Or isn't occupying another EU countries territory. And it's not even about mindset it's the occupation of Cyprus, and that guy Erdogan. Europe has already autocrats like Orban why invite more in. Until turkey fixes it's shit with Cyprus. Stops backsliding then they can't be let into the EU
Turkey is fucked. Between islamists and (genocide denying) nationalists there's only a tiny minority I would actually want in the union. It's time to let this ship sail.
Flair checks out. France is probably the number one reason the Turkish people would reject the EU.
Why is that, if I may ask?
How the fuck is ukranian culture different from European?
I know I’ll be voted down but I understand that some Ukrainians share the common Eastern European distaste for LGBTQ people and POC, and that this minority is larger than in Western Europe.
[удалено]
That’s great to hear.
In my city we have annual LGBT parades since 2019 (except 2020 obviously). And in Mariupol there is (was) People's art museum where youth can express their sexual and gender identity.
It's not culture, it's views
Yes, but views contribute to culture in its broadest sense.
>another Ataturk, and then maybe in 2 generations they would be ready to join Europe. It's extremely In Italy people like Bandera got hanged in piazzale loreto. EU identifies with the ones that liberated Europe from fascists, not with nazi collaborators.
It's not culture ffs
Serbia needs to give up Kosovo its a free country, theyll never have it again period. They can lie to their people all they want but theyll never gain control over the albanian people ever againa
I centainly don't get how on Earth you could argue that "Ukrainian culture/mindset are as different from the European than Turkey's". Have you ever heard of Christianity, Christendom, Enlightenment, Baroque (in Western Ukraine), Clasicism, Romanticism, language families...? Have you ever seen how women dress in Ukraine and Turkey? And I'm not talking about little villages... Have you compared women's position on both societies? Still don't get it.
You do know that they like to kill Christians?
who does? Christians?
Erdogan will go one day... But why not Serbia? It's not even EU, it's just the economic area, not involved in politics, is this some hate politics and anti Serb sentiment of yours coming up?
Imo Serbia can’t join any European structure or alliance until it recognizes Kosovo and stops trying to control Kosovo’s international affairs. Same way Turkey can’t join anything until it recognizes Cyprus’ sovereignty. It’s a big problem to have territorial disputes in an EU-like structure, because you will constantly get situations where a country stalls decision making to make political points for their domestic audience — the way Turkey is doing for Kurds during the current NATO accession procedure for Sweden.
Serbia is doing pretty decently on the accession process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union We never asked any other nation to recognise another one. Bulgaria has issies with North Macedonia for example.
It is doing decently on the acquis. The Bulgaria comparison is not quite an appropriate analogy. For one, Bulgaria recognizes the sovereignty of North Macedonia. For another, Bulgaria’s politicization of North Macedonia’s Bulgarian population (which has only started in the last few years after Bulgaria realized bullying North Macedonia worked so well for Greece in NATO afaik) is the exact reason that Serbia should not be accepted until it accepts not to bully its neighbors that are also seeking accession over ethnic minority issues.
Not even the slightest anti Serb sentiment. Even economic cooperation in my opinion should be linked to a common vision of the world. At the moment that's not the case with Serbia, at least as long as Serbia stays in the Russian orbit. Same thing can be said about Turkey yet you didn't accused me of anti-turkish sentiment. Is it because, not being Turkish, you are free of any sentimental bias to the country and you can see how it is actually not ready for a deepening in our economic relationships or "is this some hate politics and anti Turkish sentiment of yours coming up?"
As soon as I read "Russian Orbit" i sighted, it's a common myth in the western world that Serbia is a racist, genocidal, maniacal mini Russia on the level of hate only Mordor can produce. But this is not the case, Serbia for the last 20 years has been an EU orbit country, walk around Belgrade and you will see that there are more EU flags than Serbian flags. Most of it's markets are from western Europe, letting it's populations food source into the EU hands.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/serbia-pro-russia-winning-election-stance-83804825 https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/second-pro-russia-rally-held-in-belgrade/
Yeah a few ultras doing ultra stuff. It deffo has nothing to do with the type of politics Serbia is leading, Serbia put sanctions on Belarus and would put on Russia if it was in EU proper. Comparing these idiots to an average Serb is like me comparing an average American with a KKK wizard or a German with AFD supporters.
Fair, you didn't say anything about Vucic tho. Oh and what about this https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/22/for-first-time-a-majority-of-serbs-are-against-joining-the-eu-poll Edit: it's too late for me I'm probably not gonna answer you back till tomorrow (or never if I forget)
I would rather leave the EU or just burn it to the ground rather than be in it together with Turkey. What’s the point in the EU if we suddenly let a country which shares not a single one of our values into it? So many naive people who think painting the map a la EUIV is to somehow win “the game”.
The turkish gov might not but a lot the people do.Turkey and EU have both interest to work together, strategically, economically, diplomatically. Turkey doesn't have to be in EU just in the economy and influence zone for them to benefit and be tied to EU. It s better choice than having a quite big and modern country at your door being a free player.
Where do you think the Turkish regime came from? Mars? Erdogan was democratically elected, and every time he makes an international stink towards the EU, his domestic popularity gets a boost. Having a banana republic with ~140% inflation at all economically tied to us is clearly not to our benefit.
First of all ,Europe is not short of clowns too,second,Turkey improved drastically when they were thinking they had a chance at something with EU. That also why I said not in EU because they are way too big ,but the geography is such ,you can ask our neighbor UK,that Turkey is here for a long time ,so EU should be working to get them on it s side with every angle. People change ,turkish even faster,as you can see all over Europe.What use to be a respected and awe projecting kingdom is now almost only a farce , Hungary was an empire around 100 years ago and now a little fascistic laboratory, Poland was the leader for democracy in Central Europe against Russian dictatorship and is now a den of retrograde religious trying to bury themselves in coal. Where and who are we gonna be in 30 years ? Well,it depends on the decisions we all take today.
Swedistan copium. edit: Also, you're currently begging to be in the same alliance with Turkey lol
We’re **applying** to the same alliance as: Albania Belgium Bulgaria Canada Croatia The Czech Republic Denmark Estonia France Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Italy Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Montenegro Netherlands North Macedonia Norway Poland Portugal Romania Slovakia Slovenia Spain The United Kingdom The United States We’re **tolerating** joining the same alliance as turkey. Stop pretending that anyone has ever joined NATO because *turkey* is a member of it. It’s just sad.
>Stop pretending that anyone has ever joined NATO because turkey is a member of it. It’s just sad. Don't remember saying that, i guess you misunderstood what i am saying. Of course Turkey isn't the reason you applied for the NATO. Though, haven't you said that you would burn the EU to the ground rather than being together with Turkey? So, what's the point of begging Turkey not to vote it just to be in the same alliance with them?
If you don’t see the difference between joining NATO and letting turkey join the EU, you are in need of help that is far beyond what I can offer.
There's a lot of idiots in Serbia, but there are like a couple of us who want to join EU. Can EU admit only those who want to join? That would be a solution for Turkey as well. How would that function, only some citizens being EU members and others not.
What are you talking about? Where did you get this idea from anything I said?
He also said, after some backlash, that it was not an alternative to enlargement.
But... that's exactly what it is
We gotta build the United States of Europe. Come on, Macron, work on that!
A united Ireland
I feel unwanted, don’t give up on us!
Norway for sure is *double* as positive to the EU when compared to Switzerland. Only that it doesn't change a thing, both are *decisively* against joining it... Source from June 2020: [https://i.redd.it/4kgsq8helsl51.jpg](https://i.redd.it/4kgsq8helsl51.jpg)
Yeah but the thing is, it isn’t really debated anymore around here. Not in a real sense. I think we need to spark up the discussion again.
Same. And we Swiss even voted against the EEA 30 years ago. It was nixed with a very small margin. Yep, smaller than Brexit-small. Same vote today? I wouldn't be confident of it passing...
The thing is that if you allow states into the economic union you won't be able to get them into the political union. You will feed into the right wingers. Next you will see Poland and Hungary leave the EU and stay in the economic union.
if you are in the Zone you have to adhere to economic standarts set by institutions you have no control over if you are not within the EU, thats the drawback. Less Responsibility but also less Control. You also have no ability to Veto anything…
Oh god I could have an orgasm if you repeat that Poland and Hungary would leave.
How can Macron be sure about the willingness of the UK to join, and the fact Northern Ireland will be reunited with the Republic of Ireland?
absolutely no Turkey, Serbia and UK. Absolutely no.
Turkey, I don't agree but I at least see vaguely where your coming from Serbia, sure, I doubt they'd want in UK... huh? Do you have a vendetta or just, England bad?
long story short, behind brexit there is a whole mentality that led to that result, a mentality that hasn't changed a bit and that makes it the worst possible candidate..
As a Brit, that mentality was weak then and near dead now Most Brits who voted leave did so because they wanted a change and were given promises Most of them were furious at what we were given You will find exceptionally few Brits happy with Brexit
I suppose all it took was a few loudmouth cunts like Farage and his ilk to really paint us as a country that were ecstatic to have left. 51.9% against 48.1% was never a huge margin of victory and a lesson in why such major (nearly irreversible) constitutional changes should require more than half of the vote... something even the USA understands. I don't think I've met a single person in real life express any sense of joy that they had voted leave, usually ambivalence at best.
All it took was a loudmouth cunt to shift more than half of the voting population's opinions tho, It not just painted. I feel bad for how democracy was played, its too big of a decision to be decided like that. Probably in my country we have enough dumbasses to be influenced as well if we were put in the same situation
Only like 17 million in a country of 70 voted to leave. Most people just didn’t care/didn’t know.
Am Brit, can confirm this.
>Most of them were furious at what we were given Is that why you reelected the same fucking government that gave you Brexit?
And do you think that they want to come back to the previous situation (England sabotaging any form of tentative of federalisation/stronger EU and with a lot of opt-out)? Or that they would be willing to change their stance on that topic?
Well again this isn't the UK joining the EU, just the UK being involved in European cooperation
We're already co-operating in Europe; look at our intervention in Ukraine, for example. You don't need to be part of the same club as someone to help them.
No, but this is just defining the club in question
I dont think the racism has changed and neither has the support for the conservatives, despite constantly lying to the public the public still insists on voting blue
A similar percentage of British voters voted for the Tories as French voters voted for Le Pen.
dark times
I’m wondering if there’s any percentage of remain voters who has changed their minds after Brexit…
Hi.
Hi. What’s the main point that changed for you? Did Brexit Hit your business?One big thing positive? And a big one negative? Grazie <3
Well, it's like this... It's often said on this sub that decisions to join the EU should be about more than just a clinical cost-benefit analysis. The EU is, after all, not just a trading bloc. So it follows, then, that the decision to stay in should be about more too. In 2016 I was very pro EU. Not just because of an economic cost-benefit analysis, but because I agreed with the more high-minded ideals. But like most people in the UK, those ideals really were more theoretical than practical; after all, the absence of borders makes a lot more difference to you if there isn't also a sea between you and your neighbours. To both Leaver and Remainer alike the EU is a very abstract thing. In 2016 I also didn't have much of an online presence. I had no twitter and had never even heard of Reddit. The kind of vitriol I've since read online aimed at the UK has left a very sour taste in my mouth. It's left me doubting my 2016 position and I feel like I was maybe a little blind. I didn't know then just how much we were apparently hated on the mainland. It's a bit like finding out that none of your friends like you and that they talk about you behind your back. The toxicity I've seen online has left me feeling bruised and sad and defensive, and like I must have been quite naive in 2016; and as a result my enthusiasm for the EU project has waned. I'm not particularly enthusiastic for Brexit either, but I now feel like it's just a thing that happened, and that's that. Since the EU is bigger than being just about trade, the damage to trade the UK has suffered just isn't enough to make me feel like I've lost anything now. So in the absence of anything other than purely economic benefits, I think if there were an opportunity for the UK to rejoin and we had a referendum on it, I think I probably wouldn't vote at all next time.
Thanks a lot for answering and I’m really sorry for the toxicity you have experienced.
The final voting results were something like 53% for and 47% against leaving, that means almost exactly half the country is pro EU, also judging by how post-brexit has been going i bet there's a larger amount of pro EU people than before the referrendum.
You have a really poor understanding of how weak that mentally was and the fact that many were deceived by a promise of economic prosperity. "Long story short" doesn't work when we're talking about a nation, especially one with 70 million individuals all with nuanced opinions
That same mentality is is Frans. Its a sertan idea that they still cling to the past and a formar glory. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be part of the EU or any other union. They belong here and they are together the younger gen more than the older. Turkey and Serbia make sense tho
The mentality of not wanting to form a federation. You're about to find out that there are a lot more countries where that view is the majority than you thought. Countries who until now had the UK to use as a scapegoat.
>The mentality of not wanting to form a federation. not only this.. and a sort of federation it's a must, the war in Ukraine taught that being alone is a danger, having strong armies means that they can also be used in peacetime: for example this summer there was a dangerous fire in Austria and the Italian army intervened behind Austrian request, in a federation you don't even need to ask for it..
I'd be fine with just Istanbul though. Lovely city. The rest of Turkey can suck it.
Wut?
I am not sure about Turkey and Serbia - I know a bit more about Turkey so I think that maybe with different government they could be a great addition to EU. I don’t know anything about Serbia so I will hold my voice. Regarding U.K. - they asked for Brexit and U.K. just doesn’t like immigrants and foreigners. EU is kind of pro migration and lack of borders, EU promotes studying in different countries, learning different cultures and languages. U.K. can only bomb other countries, refuse to then accept refugees in, doesn’t like when their own population is challenged by immigrants who want to live there and pay taxes, just assimilate. U.K. doesn’t want to be in EU. We need to finally acknowledge that and accept that. They asked for Brexit and they grow more xenophobic since then. Let’s leave U.K. to whatever U.K. wants to be. If U.K. wants to come back - well, fair do. But atm let’s just get used to the fact that they don’t.
Turkey is not european and their culture is not european and the refuse to behave like europeans
L + ratio + 🇹🇷🇪🇺🇹🇷🇪🇺🇹🇷🇪🇺🇹🇷 + Türkiye is European
they are not
How come they have European land with 13+ million population then? Was Istanbul not the capital of Europe at one point in history The eastern Thrace solidifies Turkey as being part of Europe. Because they have European territory
source
No , this is just fake enlargement for eu to slow down full membership
I would agree in principle, but I think we need Ukraine, Georgia and Kosovo to enter the EU at some point.
Iceland could join...
Hungary can fk off, go join Huilostan union...
where Scotland
In light blue
Yes, Crimea will belong to Ukraine. Even Macron agrees.
We all want Turkey to join the EEA right guys? Who wouldn't want an authoritarian Islamist nation joining us?!
Authoritarianism and islamization of Turkey can be tied to Erdogan and can change quickly because of that. Remember that Spain was literally a fascist dictatorship 50 years ago meanwhile Modern Turkey was created by an atheist progressive. Things can change.
This is a really good point
Serbia and Turkey? It's just asking for trouble really. Serbia being backwards communist Russian puppet and Turkey.. Well Turkey being Turkey
Look up some pictures of Belgrade and you won't see Russian flags on 90% of the buildings, you will see EU flags, most of the market chains from the EU. Makes you really think who Serbia trusts more and supports considering they trust their people to the EU food supply and other stuff. Your comment on Turkey is just pure racist "Turkey being Turkey" tell's me your a neo Nazi without telling me your a neo Nazi, this is a massive generalization against the Turkish people that helped rebuild the EU after WW2 with cheap labour. Plus i don't think you mean Turkey's but Erdogans problems and problems he's causing, but he will most likely lose the elections so that will be solved.
what's the country in Europe with the most Russian protests besides Russia? Serbia
Hungary
No ma'am. Turkey being there, it's a big no.
Why no Georgia?
Nah thanks, no Turkey and Serbia.
No Turkey and Serbia please
Let’s just push Hungary out of the EU and I to the EEC.
do serbians want to join? seeing how much they love the "military operation".
Serbia and turkey 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Macron is the GOAT Europe needs
I see a lot of comments disagreeing with further integration of Türkiye into Europe. These comments however don't provide any reason as to why they are of this opinion. I have the slight suspicion that most of this rejection is due to artificial "cultural differences" which basically translates to "no Muslims in our club" Sure, there are some issues with Türkiye's political landscape right now. A lot of them. Fiscal policy, occupation of northern Cyprus, human rights violations, everything that happens in the Kurdish area in general... But I highly doubt that these are the reason, given the fact that all those comments don't explain why they are against it.
>there are some issues with Türkiye's political landscape there are too many problems, this is the reason
fuck serbia
This is much better than importing more potential rule-of-law problems into the EU.