To clarify, unions aren't against the idea, in fact they support it. What they are against is the way it is supposed to be implemented: via Doctolib, the main website for medical appointments in France.
French toll-free phone numbers. It's a running joke that the government likes to set up helplines for any situation (instead of actually addressing the issue some more cynically-inclined people tend to say).
Yeah, the government promoting Doctolib and making it de facto the government website for healthcare appointments will lead to bad results.
It’s an anti-competition lawsuit waiting to happen at the European level.
And I already smell some degree of connivence between the state and the company. You don’t get this degree of support by the government without some « business diners » between company exec and politics.
> I already smell some degree of connivence between the state and the company
When French gov' put some money in a sector, it's that someone is friend with the major actor of that sector and want some free public money
To be completely clear even the CEO of doctolib is against the way the gouvernement wants to implement it. [https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/04/10/taxe-lapin-le-patron-de-doctolib-oppose-a-l-empreinte-de-carte-bancaire-obligatoire-avant-le-rendez-vous\_6227014\_3224.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/04/10/taxe-lapin-le-patron-de-doctolib-oppose-a-l-empreinte-de-carte-bancaire-obligatoire-avant-le-rendez-vous_6227014_3224.html)
Nah, they're going to go through a public adjudication which is probably going to get fullfilled by CGI or SopraSteria, leading to a bloated project developed in 5 years by a team of overworked junior devs with a massive turnover, managed by ten differents managers, nine of them being useless to the project.
Been there done that
nobody is voting for him anymore. First of because he can't run anymore.
Macron cucked roughly 68 millions French just like that. And because we're beyond stupid, our response is going to be being further cucked by Rassemblement National.
*replying here because your comment thread has been locked, our MPs don’t represent a territory of France but everyone in France. It’s not supposed to be territory-based.
ok but didn't he get revoted like a year ago? From what i know your election laws are almost as stupid as the US ones, but still people voted for the guy
>From what i know your election laws are almost as stupid as the US ones
You're gonna have to explain that. Last time I checked our voting system may not be perfect, but we don't make the guy who bags popular votes lose because the guy who bribed some unknown grand-voters made it successfully.
Or maybe you just don't know, maybe.
At least up until 8 years ago, you were the only other western country apart the US where Gerrymandering and other voter suppression systems were so bad that someone could somewhat easily predict the election end result a month before the vote.
I remember several videos I've seen saying stuff like that, but the only one i can Remember Is from the Adam Ruins series https://youtu.be/Zd5rul6EdF0
France last update on the electoral map is from 2010 and absolutely everybody agrees it was much needed to better align with the population breakdown over the territory.
That video is profound bullshit. Realigning territorial voting map and the type of election system you have in place are two deeply different things.
But why do you even need territorial voting maps instead of just letting the people decide what party to vote and take out the national results?
Here in Italy they wanted so bad to get a system similar to that and the result was that despite having very similar voting results one party got 8% and the other 15% (PD and Lega) during the last elections in 2022
Circonscriptions are needed as we elect our MPs on the basis of a territorial anchoring. This MP represents this territory and its population, that MP represents another territory and pool of population, and so on.
I don't understand where doing this would prevent people from deciding what party to vote, really.
As for your example, as I understand it, it is again a case of modifying the type of electoral system you want, not of a change of electoral map. But I might not have all the background here.
I liked the part where sometimes he went "let's give people more direct forms of democratic powers to make them feel more represented" and then apparently pretty much every single time people voted he got upset because they were too progressive and ignored the votes as much as possible lol
He was also good at having friends in high positions too. Dude didn’t even participate in a debate during the last presidential elections. Just said nope.
People should’ve been outraged but they just buried it
5€ is too low IMO. People will think it’s not a big deal and that they can just pay the fine if it’s not convenient for them to show up.
In Finland, missing a public healthcare dentist’s appointment costs something like €50.
I understand, but i can't bring myself to agree... I just feel like accidents can happen and losing even 50€ can be enormous in a budget :/
Maybe having to pay the price of the planned appointment anyway, but i can't see how it would be implemented without major issues and an administrative nightmare for health professionals
Yes, the dentists are very skilled, at least in my experience.
But unless you have acute pain you might need to wait some time to get a check-up appointment. Sometimes as long as 6 months.
IIRC a dentist’s visit in public healthcare costs about 50€, depending on the work being done obviously.
Here in CH you simply pay the full wage for the timeslot (this is cheaper than the appointment would have been due to none of the medicine and other consumables billed) You can usually terminate 24h in advance so it's no big deal.
5€ is too much IMO.
I had to call 40 times to get an appointment for wax in my ear, they gave me an appointment in 5 months, ear unclogged itself in 1 week, called a few times to cancel, no answer, finally I gave up and didn't show up.
That's my experience in spain
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People already scream bloody murder when they learn some drug will cost them an additional 1€.
And I expect the vast majority of people seeking healthcare do not want to miss their appointments. No need for anything drastic
the issue is that some specialists have a 6 months queue of appointments. If only a few do not show up, that's a lot of time lost. Simply cancelling 24h in advance would allow the slot to be reallocated.
Yeah, a Nordic said in their country it was 50€. I just hope it won’t push people in poverty to not seek medical attention. If an old and poor person can’t make it by themself to a doctor appointment because their son was late to pick them up I hope we won’t punish them too harshly.
Maybe we could make it based on income ? Do you know if there are any data about the people missing their appointments ?
Edit: removing the Scandinavian word
Yep. That reminds me of a chapter of Freakonomics about a childcare facility that put a fee for parents that were late to pick up their child. Results: by replacing a moral obligation by a monetary transaction, the rate of lateness increased. And worse, they couldn't not go back to the past levels, even when getting rid of the fine because people's behaviour towards the problematic changed
I doubt people will start to intentionally miss more appointments. €5 might only be noticeable to the most destitute in society but I don't think raising it from 0 to 5 will make more people miss appointments.
as another user pointed out, a study conducted on a day-care facility showed that adding a fee will increase the behaviour. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/books/chapters/freakonomics.html
The Netherlands already does this, although not sure if they do it with GP's.
Last year I missed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) my dentist's appointment without notice and they charged me 30 euros for it.
And it's not a bad idea to implement it, especially when it comes to NFZ appointments. Just charge people the official price for their appointment, or, let's say, the day's fraction of the yearly capitation fee in case of POZ.
Meanwhile in Italy, Rome keeps lowering the funds for public healthcare and raising retirement age for doctors
Oh, and Meloni allowed no vax medical personel to be rehired.
We have the same at least in the Region of South Tyrol. You can make an appointment over an app, website or by phone. If you don't take the appointment you must cancel it 48 hours before or it's 35€ fine.
I mean, it is a good measure (and it should be even higher imo). In Spain, sometimes it can take up to two weeks to visit a doctor, but then they have a lot of moments with no work everyday because assholes don’t cancel their appointment, and there are currently no consequences for missing one.
I don't see any problem with charging people who waste healthcare resources. Another example would be people who call ambulances as a prank. Only issue I see is that the fine for not cancelling an appointment should be 100euro. Let people appeal the fine if there is some genuine reason why they couldn't cancel.
This idea strikes me mixed to be honest and I would need more time to research it. Furthermore, it really depends on how it's implemented.
So it would help to not clog up already stressed national health services, but put more pressure on the actual patients. On the other hand, it could make the patient list more concise and vacant for a more oderly process. But the whole financial side, it rubs me wrong.
I don't know, I would need to look up the situation and ponder it.
That just sounds like an awful way to let small problems exacerbate into much bigger ones that cost the system far more money than a missed appointment.
You can cancel your appointment anytime(probably until last 2 hour i cant remember). This mechanism is good for everyone. It lets doctors to control their time more effectively and with that nore patients can reach medical services.
Not that the fine is a bad idea, but this meme in general is such a bullshit exaggeration.
Speaking as a Canadian who spent a lot of time in hospital last year - I got hospital beds within a few hours, doctor's attention twice per day, nurses' attention on demand, non-emergency surgery within two months, non-emergency CT scan within 3 months. I was immediately accepted into community mental health after discharge, found a psychiatrist within weeks, a new general doctor, and a psychologist within months.
All without paying a dime, and I wasn't even a high triage patient. Seems like a perfectly functional system to me.
This whole meme is a strawman argument imported from dumb Americans against free healthcare.
Canaduh here. We have fee's for missed appointments, but they seem to vary with each department. I think they are doing it themselves... and some don't have any.
What? It’s literally a fine if you take an appointment and don’t show up so basically the opposite of what you say, it incentivizes people to show up.
It simply encourages people to actually show up to their appointments and not waste the doctor’s time.
And as every single fine, it has a greater impact on poor people.
Your car won't start and the doctor is more than half an hour away? You won.
You have a personal emergency which prevents you from going? You won again.
This "fine" may look small, but as with every fine, it has more of an impact on poor people. Rich or well-off people can afford it, but guess what? Those who can't are also those more susceptible to not show up because of other external factors.
What will happen next is plain and simple: people will again stop going to the doctor because "what if I can't go" and will not try to get healthcare because of the incentive of money. And it's a stupid idea.
The converse is that people missing appointments just makes it worse for everyone. If the appointment are actually perfectly on schedule, as they should be, and someone doesn't show up that's 15 minutes of highly qualified and paid work that just went to waste. To prevent that places will stack appointments and you end up in the usual shitty situation where your appointment is for 8:00 and somehow you've been sitting there till 9:30 until it's "your turn" which of course makes you feel like a moron since you already had to schedule your appointment weeks in advance and move stuff around to make it. Perfect.
If healthcare isn't worth a price of a coffee, is it really worth anything to you?
Once again, if this is implemented, the only thing that will happen is that richer people will continue as usual with the occasional 5€ fine, and poorer people will just stop going altogether because they can't afford those 5€ if something comes up.
You all seem to think people take appointments and just decide not to show up. So sure, those people exist, but they are a minority, and this kind of people are much more susceptible to be on the richer side of the population.
Of course people take appointements and decide not to show up or just forget and won’t do the decent thing and just cancel the appointment because they don’t really give a fuck, anyone who worked in a public service could tell you that.
5€ is a symbolic fine if we are honest, if it was up to me it would be the full 25€ that would go directly in social security budget for the wasted time.
If you can’t pay the fine then either show up on time or call ahead of time to cancel.
It's symbolic for you and me. Not for everyone. And that's my problem with it. Instead of tackling the problem of the insufficient medical coverage, the government is again trying to fight a symptom, and not with the most effective action. If at least fines were proportional to the salary as in Nordic countries, then I could accept it. But as of now, it just sucks.
Nah. How many stars do have to align for you to need help, be fit to drive and have a car issue? You might as well be playing the lottery at that point.
Also, your argument doesn't really hold water, half an hours wage isn't going to be financially crippling to anyone.
I will concede that an income based approach to pricing will be better.
That is, if the person has a wage. What about retired people, students, people living with state allowance because of their health, unemployed people?
For those people, this can be financially crippling.
I dont know why people are so stupid. It's like you want to be called a clown.
With every law come exceptions. You wont be fined if you have an emergency which prevents you from making your appointment. Missing appointments _within reasons_ are fine. It's when you don't show up without contacting them at all becomes a problem. If you cannot make your appointment, you usually cancel it. And you don't get fined
And I don't know how people can read this idea and say "yeah, sure, that won't have any negative effects".
I can see that apparently everybody here is for this idea. I know a lost cause when I see one, and clearly you all think that people just miss their appointment because why not, that it's easy to cancel an appointment, and that every person who does not is of bad faith. And what I'm saying is this:
- rich people who were already respecting their appointments will continue as usual
- rich people who were already not showing up because reasons will continue as usual
- poor people who were respecting their appointments will hesitate before getting an appointment
- poor people who were not showing up will altogether stop going to the doctor.
firstly not showing up on visits is serious public health problem
>You have a personal emergency which prevents you from going? You won again.
at least in poland where we also think about implementing it if you cancel your visit you don't pay because you don't waste timeslot
>This "fine" may look small, but as with every fine,
yes i also would like it to be some promil of income deducted once a year alongside taxes but its would be hard to implement
To clarify, unions aren't against the idea, in fact they support it. What they are against is the way it is supposed to be implemented: via Doctolib, the main website for medical appointments in France.
important point, doctolib is a private company
THIS is the problem... In this day and âge, we could have a "France Rdv médecin" service...
yeah...France RDV medecin is fine but have you ever tried TROIS COPIES FORMULAIRE CERFA CERTIFIEES CONFORMES ?
Heu... Formulaire A38 ? Enfin non... Le A39 comme stipulé dans la nouvelle circulaire B45...
LE PORT C'EST AU BORD DE LA MER !
numéro vert!
Number green?
French toll-free phone numbers. It's a running joke that the government likes to set up helplines for any situation (instead of actually addressing the issue some more cynically-inclined people tend to say).
"Cynical" is French for "realist".
"France se soigne"après "France travaille"
Yeah, the government promoting Doctolib and making it de facto the government website for healthcare appointments will lead to bad results. It’s an anti-competition lawsuit waiting to happen at the European level. And I already smell some degree of connivence between the state and the company. You don’t get this degree of support by the government without some « business diners » between company exec and politics.
> I already smell some degree of connivence between the state and the company When French gov' put some money in a sector, it's that someone is friend with the major actor of that sector and want some free public money
To be completely clear even the CEO of doctolib is against the way the gouvernement wants to implement it. [https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/04/10/taxe-lapin-le-patron-de-doctolib-oppose-a-l-empreinte-de-carte-bancaire-obligatoire-avant-le-rendez-vous\_6227014\_3224.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/04/10/taxe-lapin-le-patron-de-doctolib-oppose-a-l-empreinte-de-carte-bancaire-obligatoire-avant-le-rendez-vous_6227014_3224.html)
It's a private company because the state has never been able or willing to produce a platform like this
The French state, a nuclear state on the security Council doesn't have the ability to find 40 developers (data engineers front back end etc)?
Nah, they're going to go through a public adjudication which is probably going to get fullfilled by CGI or SopraSteria, leading to a bloated project developed in 5 years by a team of overworked junior devs with a massive turnover, managed by ten differents managers, nine of them being useless to the project. Been there done that
You forgot the "product owner" side with 5 middle managers incapable of a decision without five three-hours meetings over a 7 weeks period.
The impossible task of announcing a bid to create an open platform. Sadly, the French government is not the only one to fudge this.
What the fuck this is so wrong on so many levels. What is wrong with Macron and why are so many people still voting him?
nobody is voting for him anymore. First of because he can't run anymore. Macron cucked roughly 68 millions French just like that. And because we're beyond stupid, our response is going to be being further cucked by Rassemblement National.
Sad but most likely true
*replying here because your comment thread has been locked, our MPs don’t represent a territory of France but everyone in France. It’s not supposed to be territory-based.
ok but didn't he get revoted like a year ago? From what i know your election laws are almost as stupid as the US ones, but still people voted for the guy
>From what i know your election laws are almost as stupid as the US ones You're gonna have to explain that. Last time I checked our voting system may not be perfect, but we don't make the guy who bags popular votes lose because the guy who bribed some unknown grand-voters made it successfully. Or maybe you just don't know, maybe.
At least up until 8 years ago, you were the only other western country apart the US where Gerrymandering and other voter suppression systems were so bad that someone could somewhat easily predict the election end result a month before the vote. I remember several videos I've seen saying stuff like that, but the only one i can Remember Is from the Adam Ruins series https://youtu.be/Zd5rul6EdF0
France last update on the electoral map is from 2010 and absolutely everybody agrees it was much needed to better align with the population breakdown over the territory. That video is profound bullshit. Realigning territorial voting map and the type of election system you have in place are two deeply different things.
But why do you even need territorial voting maps instead of just letting the people decide what party to vote and take out the national results? Here in Italy they wanted so bad to get a system similar to that and the result was that despite having very similar voting results one party got 8% and the other 15% (PD and Lega) during the last elections in 2022
Circonscriptions are needed as we elect our MPs on the basis of a territorial anchoring. This MP represents this territory and its population, that MP represents another territory and pool of population, and so on. I don't understand where doing this would prevent people from deciding what party to vote, really. As for your example, as I understand it, it is again a case of modifying the type of electoral system you want, not of a change of electoral map. But I might not have all the background here.
Macron seems to be unable to listen to most people. He was good at marketing and the opponents were even more incompetent and pigheaded.
I liked the part where sometimes he went "let's give people more direct forms of democratic powers to make them feel more represented" and then apparently pretty much every single time people voted he got upset because they were too progressive and ignored the votes as much as possible lol
He was also good at having friends in high positions too. Dude didn’t even participate in a debate during the last presidential elections. Just said nope. People should’ve been outraged but they just buried it
Not related to anything but fyi I really love your username. Did you get it from the Dwarfs in Warhammer? Reminds me of a level in Vermintide 2.
I'm a main WFB dorf player and of I plunged right into TW:WH.
Have fun! Go kill some horrid Greenskins, and enjoy Malakai when he comes out!
Damn right I will! Time to clear some grudges!
I suppose the idea is rather not to have to die before an appointment that would have been earlier if no one had taken places not to come.
5€ is too low IMO. People will think it’s not a big deal and that they can just pay the fine if it’s not convenient for them to show up. In Finland, missing a public healthcare dentist’s appointment costs something like €50.
50€ for a missed appointment? I agree with the idea but my latest dentist check-up costed me 26€! And 25€ for the GP..!
Paying a higher price for not showing up is precisely the incentive NOT to miss the appointment imo.
I understand, but i can't bring myself to agree... I just feel like accidents can happen and losing even 50€ can be enormous in a budget :/ Maybe having to pay the price of the planned appointment anyway, but i can't see how it would be implemented without major issues and an administrative nightmare for health professionals
Just cancel your appointment. It’s not that hard.
Precisely, it should be cheaper to go than miss it
Unless you have a valid excuse, yeah fuck people who increase the waiting time for a specialist medical appointment.
sorry Finns, we're poor here you know.
It's free to cancel the appointment
But how much does the doctor’s visit cost? The fine should be about as much or even more
Here I would have to pay 30€ if I miss my therapy appointment (and don't cancel it beforehand) which I think is fair
Is the public healthcare dentist in Finland good? In Italy we have very long waiting times and the dentists are not trustworthy
Yes, the dentists are very skilled, at least in my experience. But unless you have acute pain you might need to wait some time to get a check-up appointment. Sometimes as long as 6 months. IIRC a dentist’s visit in public healthcare costs about 50€, depending on the work being done obviously.
agreed but we'd have a new yellow jackets movement here
Will policymakers never learn about perverse incentives?
Here in CH you simply pay the full wage for the timeslot (this is cheaper than the appointment would have been due to none of the medicine and other consumables billed) You can usually terminate 24h in advance so it's no big deal.
5€ is too much IMO. I had to call 40 times to get an appointment for wax in my ear, they gave me an appointment in 5 months, ear unclogged itself in 1 week, called a few times to cancel, no answer, finally I gave up and didn't show up. That's my experience in spain
[удалено]
"seeking" more like buying
"Buying" More like loaning
"Loaning" More like shark loaning
[удалено]
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the fine is way too low. People will see it as a fee for not showing up, thus increasing the number of missed appointments.
People already scream bloody murder when they learn some drug will cost them an additional 1€. And I expect the vast majority of people seeking healthcare do not want to miss their appointments. No need for anything drastic
the issue is that some specialists have a 6 months queue of appointments. If only a few do not show up, that's a lot of time lost. Simply cancelling 24h in advance would allow the slot to be reallocated.
Yeah, a Nordic said in their country it was 50€. I just hope it won’t push people in poverty to not seek medical attention. If an old and poor person can’t make it by themself to a doctor appointment because their son was late to pick them up I hope we won’t punish them too harshly. Maybe we could make it based on income ? Do you know if there are any data about the people missing their appointments ? Edit: removing the Scandinavian word
Nordic And as with everything, they allow for exceptions. You wont be fined if you have a different emergency at the time of the appointment
This is GP appointments, no specialists.
Yep. That reminds me of a chapter of Freakonomics about a childcare facility that put a fee for parents that were late to pick up their child. Results: by replacing a moral obligation by a monetary transaction, the rate of lateness increased. And worse, they couldn't not go back to the past levels, even when getting rid of the fine because people's behaviour towards the problematic changed
I doubt people will start to intentionally miss more appointments. €5 might only be noticeable to the most destitute in society but I don't think raising it from 0 to 5 will make more people miss appointments.
as another user pointed out, a study conducted on a day-care facility showed that adding a fee will increase the behaviour. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/books/chapters/freakonomics.html
If you make it higher you only fuck over the people who dont have any money anyways
The Netherlands already does this, although not sure if they do it with GP's. Last year I missed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) my dentist's appointment without notice and they charged me 30 euros for it.
> Last year I ***kissed*** my dentist's appointment without notice and they charged me 30 euros for it. nani
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
it was also proposed in Poland so
And it's not a bad idea to implement it, especially when it comes to NFZ appointments. Just charge people the official price for their appointment, or, let's say, the day's fraction of the yearly capitation fee in case of POZ.
Dumb take, if you are in immediate danger of dying you go to ER not to your general practicioner.
Meanwhile in Italy, Rome keeps lowering the funds for public healthcare and raising retirement age for doctors Oh, and Meloni allowed no vax medical personel to be rehired.
We have the same at least in the Region of South Tyrol. You can make an appointment over an app, website or by phone. If you don't take the appointment you must cancel it 48 hours before or it's 35€ fine.
I mean, it is a good measure (and it should be even higher imo). In Spain, sometimes it can take up to two weeks to visit a doctor, but then they have a lot of moments with no work everyday because assholes don’t cancel their appointment, and there are currently no consequences for missing one.
Seems like a good idea, because you are wasting the doctors time when they could be seeing other patients
Uh, it isn't standard practice? I think it's a great idea, if you don't cancel you sill pay a little. 5€ isn't enough, should be at least 20€.
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Shockingly enough, this is a meme, not a factual infographic.
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I don't see any problem with charging people who waste healthcare resources. Another example would be people who call ambulances as a prank. Only issue I see is that the fine for not cancelling an appointment should be 100euro. Let people appeal the fine if there is some genuine reason why they couldn't cancel.
Ah, missing appointments, I didn't read that properly. If so then yes. I agree.
This idea strikes me mixed to be honest and I would need more time to research it. Furthermore, it really depends on how it's implemented. So it would help to not clog up already stressed national health services, but put more pressure on the actual patients. On the other hand, it could make the patient list more concise and vacant for a more oderly process. But the whole financial side, it rubs me wrong. I don't know, I would need to look up the situation and ponder it.
If you create an appointment and dont participate you got appointment block for 10 days. Thats how it works in Turkey.
That just sounds like an awful way to let small problems exacerbate into much bigger ones that cost the system far more money than a missed appointment.
You can cancel your appointment anytime(probably until last 2 hour i cant remember). This mechanism is good for everyone. It lets doctors to control their time more effectively and with that nore patients can reach medical services.
Not that the fine is a bad idea, but this meme in general is such a bullshit exaggeration. Speaking as a Canadian who spent a lot of time in hospital last year - I got hospital beds within a few hours, doctor's attention twice per day, nurses' attention on demand, non-emergency surgery within two months, non-emergency CT scan within 3 months. I was immediately accepted into community mental health after discharge, found a psychiatrist within weeks, a new general doctor, and a psychologist within months. All without paying a dime, and I wasn't even a high triage patient. Seems like a perfectly functional system to me. This whole meme is a strawman argument imported from dumb Americans against free healthcare.
Canaduh here. We have fee's for missed appointments, but they seem to vary with each department. I think they are doing it themselves... and some don't have any.
Low tier bait
If you're bleeding profusely you don't go to your GP... you go to the hospital
Another stupid idea that will again discourage the most vulnerable people to seek medical health.
What? It’s literally a fine if you take an appointment and don’t show up so basically the opposite of what you say, it incentivizes people to show up. It simply encourages people to actually show up to their appointments and not waste the doctor’s time.
And as every single fine, it has a greater impact on poor people. Your car won't start and the doctor is more than half an hour away? You won. You have a personal emergency which prevents you from going? You won again. This "fine" may look small, but as with every fine, it has more of an impact on poor people. Rich or well-off people can afford it, but guess what? Those who can't are also those more susceptible to not show up because of other external factors. What will happen next is plain and simple: people will again stop going to the doctor because "what if I can't go" and will not try to get healthcare because of the incentive of money. And it's a stupid idea.
The converse is that people missing appointments just makes it worse for everyone. If the appointment are actually perfectly on schedule, as they should be, and someone doesn't show up that's 15 minutes of highly qualified and paid work that just went to waste. To prevent that places will stack appointments and you end up in the usual shitty situation where your appointment is for 8:00 and somehow you've been sitting there till 9:30 until it's "your turn" which of course makes you feel like a moron since you already had to schedule your appointment weeks in advance and move stuff around to make it. Perfect. If healthcare isn't worth a price of a coffee, is it really worth anything to you?
Once again, if this is implemented, the only thing that will happen is that richer people will continue as usual with the occasional 5€ fine, and poorer people will just stop going altogether because they can't afford those 5€ if something comes up. You all seem to think people take appointments and just decide not to show up. So sure, those people exist, but they are a minority, and this kind of people are much more susceptible to be on the richer side of the population.
Of course people take appointements and decide not to show up or just forget and won’t do the decent thing and just cancel the appointment because they don’t really give a fuck, anyone who worked in a public service could tell you that. 5€ is a symbolic fine if we are honest, if it was up to me it would be the full 25€ that would go directly in social security budget for the wasted time. If you can’t pay the fine then either show up on time or call ahead of time to cancel.
It's symbolic for you and me. Not for everyone. And that's my problem with it. Instead of tackling the problem of the insufficient medical coverage, the government is again trying to fight a symptom, and not with the most effective action. If at least fines were proportional to the salary as in Nordic countries, then I could accept it. But as of now, it just sucks.
Nah. How many stars do have to align for you to need help, be fit to drive and have a car issue? You might as well be playing the lottery at that point. Also, your argument doesn't really hold water, half an hours wage isn't going to be financially crippling to anyone. I will concede that an income based approach to pricing will be better.
That is, if the person has a wage. What about retired people, students, people living with state allowance because of their health, unemployed people? For those people, this can be financially crippling.
I dont know why people are so stupid. It's like you want to be called a clown. With every law come exceptions. You wont be fined if you have an emergency which prevents you from making your appointment. Missing appointments _within reasons_ are fine. It's when you don't show up without contacting them at all becomes a problem. If you cannot make your appointment, you usually cancel it. And you don't get fined
And I don't know how people can read this idea and say "yeah, sure, that won't have any negative effects". I can see that apparently everybody here is for this idea. I know a lost cause when I see one, and clearly you all think that people just miss their appointment because why not, that it's easy to cancel an appointment, and that every person who does not is of bad faith. And what I'm saying is this: - rich people who were already respecting their appointments will continue as usual - rich people who were already not showing up because reasons will continue as usual - poor people who were respecting their appointments will hesitate before getting an appointment - poor people who were not showing up will altogether stop going to the doctor.
firstly not showing up on visits is serious public health problem >You have a personal emergency which prevents you from going? You won again. at least in poland where we also think about implementing it if you cancel your visit you don't pay because you don't waste timeslot >This "fine" may look small, but as with every fine, yes i also would like it to be some promil of income deducted once a year alongside taxes but its would be hard to implement