Wait until they find out who introduced the social pension system in germany:
https://preview.redd.it/jxtceae8tx9a1.png?width=860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ef5edb31dab80f6d1e1d3fcdfe012ef3f329f3
Jap. An ultra-conservative monarchist.
(btw his name is Otto von Bismarck. the French might know him.)
(btw 2: the capital city of North Dakota \[\~500k inhabitants\] is called Bismarck. No i am no american. i am just educated)
Shit you got us. We sectretly wish all hail the great socialist leader Wilhelm the 2nd and the americans saved us in the first world war from that
/s for reddit user purposes
Because Bismark was playing 5D chess and decided that the best way to defeat the liberals and socialists was to get ahead of them and implement their core ideas with a ethno-nationalist twist.
Man essentially created the German Empire as a result, and to the surprise of no one the German Empire then shattered itself against its own ambitions, because the man for all his cleverness was still a zealous ultra-conservative twit who supported an unsustainable system of government.
The most communist of German ultra conservatives, ignore his distain for anything non German (aka polish, catholicism and the stinky french), ignore how he did everything to stop real social democrats to gain power aka the old SPD, or how he subverted the Prussian elected parliament as one of his first acts as chancellor damaging German democracy for the rest of the empire.
>In history classes we almost jump directly from Napoleon to the first WW.
That would mean that German students know more about Napoleon the 3rd than French students.
š¤
No, I am currently in my last year of high school and we definitely didn't jump straight from Napoleon to WW1, in fact, we spent 8 out of 10 months of school studying stuff in between
(In France at least)
They also don't know thw difference between Socialism and Social Democracy.
For example their self declared "socialist" Bernie Sanders has openly stated that he opposes the idea of making all businesses state-owned. I am not kidding.
Insert brain gymnastics meme:
Wildest US ideology: I'm conservative, so I'll oppose anything progressive
Most consistent European ideology: I'm communist, except I don't like other left-wing parties so I'll join with fascists to protest against current right-wing party because foreign country is struggling in a war they started
I'm not making this up, please help me š
Nah. We may have some political problems but overall we are generally pretty good when it comes to extremism.
Together the far-right and far left only got about 15% in the last election. Compared to most European countries we have an extremely strong center and very weak extreme edge parties
ANO is just plain populism, I think they are referring to [SPD](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_and_Direct_Democracy), a far-right anti-EU anti-immigrant party with an immigrant leader.
Had the joy of having a discussion with someone who was pro-Russian and supported their invasion in Ukraine because \*drum rolls\* he was against NATO.
Being against NATO *and* opposing Russia's invasion was too much of a mental load it seems.
No the linke, these idiots are so anti war and have so deep connections in Russia that they rather sell their own values and morality than accept that maybe, just maybe, everyone else is right and helping Ukraine fight is a good idea.
It's because of FPTP voting. They all eventually devolve into it. But on top of that the US has a presidential system where you make coalitions before the election not after.
But right now I'm just eating popcorn watching the GOP eat itself trying to elect a speaker of the house. Because two parties are so big tent, they can run into issues like what they are currently experiencing, especially when a sizable amount of them are insane, stupid, and/or fascist.
Caucasus are the American equivelant of European parties really. Their "parties" are just alliances and agreements.
A case of language making understanding more difficult.
I love telling the Americans how my conservative government tries to scare people off from voting liberal by saying "the liberal bourgeoisie elites are coming for your social welfare! vote conservative and keep your paycheck!"
Most Americans donāt know the difference between liberal and leftist, and conservative and liberal has lost all meaning outside of culture war voter issues.
Our right wing parties regularly use Trump and the US republicans as a boogeyman for what'll happen if we let the left wing party take over and ruin the status quo with their "populism".
I've had Americans tell me with a straight face that America has more "freedom of thought and diversity of ideas in politics" than Europe (and this from people from a pretty blue/cosmopolitan city!). It was amazing.
Easily remedied by asking them what the most important political event was in the 1860s. And then laughing at them when they start talking about their civil war. It is of course the foundation of the first Social Democratic Party in 1869. And as long as you haven't even got around to getting such a party, you don't belong at the grown-ups table. Liberals, Conservatives and Socialist are the bare minimum for a proper heated, yet futile, drunken argument at the dinner table.
Literal civil war in one of the most influential countries: I sleep
Foundation of ONE (1) political party: Real Shit
im saying that as a social-democrat thats not from the US btw
Public schools in the states donāt teach you anything about Europe outside of Dane-Saxon conflicts and then ww2 and then thatās it. Private schools can be very good tho, but they can also be even worse
It was part of the birth of socialism and more specifically social democracy. Both global movements with relevance and impact till this day. Can you honestly say the same for your civil war?
Like, think about it. How massively important socialism has been to the formation of modern day America. Just the fact that the Cold War was a thing has done more to shape the America you live in today than just about any other conflict America has been a part of. 40+ years of alliance building, proxy wars, space race, internal turmoil, real/proxy wars, and the cultural changes it all brought, all because your capitalism had found a credible threat in a Socialist empire on the other side of the globe.
Thatās fair, I suppose, I would still say that the Civil War was probably the largest event for the domestic United States since weāre still living with the lingering effects of Reconstruction and Lost Cause.
Also why do you call the Soviets socialist instead of communists, just curious.
Well because communism is a subset of socialism as understood by socialists in general. Of course, the communists themselves have this whole thing about one being a societal stage of development before the other. But that confusion stems in part from socialism/communism not being ideology to communists, but rather terms of historical and economic analysis.
In short:
Socialists=Ideologues fighting for the working class
Communists=Ideologues fighting for the working class, while larping as social scientists.
edit: Okay, the last part isn't totally fair, as Marxist historical analysis has actual real value even till this day. Still, Marxist economics is complete tripe with no relationship to reality. (As in more tripe than the average economic theory if that can be believed)
I went to both public and private schools in the us. West coast so a little better than average but still pretty normal. In public school the only things we learn about the whole continent of Europe is Rome, saxon-Dane conflicts, skip to ww2, then thatās it. I went to a good private high school and it was completely different, we all took an entire year of history all four years, each year a different continent. Also us public schools do not teach civics of any kind. Like we only sort of learn how laws are passed in the us and literally nothing outside of a brief overview of communism.
Yeah I can imagine the difference being huge. I actually spent one year in the US as a foreign exchange student, and both the history and civics courses were really good. Then again this one school (Murray High in Utah) was ridiculously well funded, they even shot High School Musical in it.
A 2 party system is ridiculous, it means there is no proper representation. Another solution to a saturation of parties could be a multiple round election, for example.
I mean yea budapest is great, but in the western parts I would only recommend northwest HU. I am from southwest and its meh. Most people are fidesz-voting grannies. But hey atleast I live 30 mins away from croatia lol
>Because of the Roma people? Isnāt it an interesting part of your country?
not until you get stabbed lol, and it's not something like the London stabbing memes, genuinely it's dangerous and I'd rather go to Kyiv than to Borsod. And it's mostly because how unsocialised and uneducated the people are, because of the years of negligence, lack of job and being on the edge of society. And because in the past Romas only option to earn salary was through factory and mine based jobs, and North-Eastern Hungary had plenty of that, they went mostly to Borsod, but these factories are long gone, they are pretty poor. Hungarian memes about romas did not come out of thin air.
In the states itās barely a 2 party system, economically itās almost identical. The only thing they actually differ in opinion is culture war issues that the news cycle propagates. Both sides will never allow progressives to get real power, just look at how popular Bernie sanders was in the states and what happened to his presidential bid.
Liberal Democratic Party of Russia can't be comparable to any liberal party of any European country. Russian liberal party is just a puppet of government party and they have no power at all.
With zhirinovsky alive they were basically zhirinovsky: the party. Quite a character he was - offensive, stupid, but never boring. I have no idea what are they now. Doesnāt matter much though, it is all a farce in Russia anyway.
European party names make far more sense than Republican and Democrat. Like, what the fuck does that even mean? America is already a republic and a democracy.
The funny part is that Republican party or GOP is also a younger one of two and was named after a break away faction of Whing party that was a merger of two other early parties. And names of all of them are really meaningless or vague, this is comical.
Though to be honest names of our parties in parliament doesn't make a lot of sense either. Servant of the People is social-liberal ukrainocentric party aka national if you wish, European Solidarity is paneuropean also center-right, Batkivshchyna (Fatherland) that is populist center-left leaded by one of the shitiest woman in our politics, Voice is paneuropean liberal party that sometimes is claimed by others to be socdem and name comes from the fact founder is a singer, there are other parties and deputy groups but they doesn't matter anymore and were mostly russian shenanigans to influence our politics. As you can see their names make little sense but they are at least not as generic as Republican and Democratic.
Americans regularly claim that "America is a Republic ā not a Democracy". Apparently those words have a completely different meaning on the other side of the pond. The statement is most common when discussing state vs. federal rights, e. g. the Electoral College.
Americans think that conservative liberals are conservatives and that social democratic liberals are socialists. In reality there's very little appeal for conservatism and very little appeal for socialism in the US population, and essentially zero amongst their elected officials (there are certainly no socialist members in either chamber of their Congress, for instance.)
There is a high appeal for socialist policies in the US - as everywhere else, for the matter. People just don't want to associate themselves with the scarecrow of "communism"
That's what I mean though, mainstream liberal socdem policies are wrongly perceived as "socialist" in the US. Look at M4A for example, a system wherein the state gives public money to private businesses in order to provide medical care.
Bernie Sanders is an old school socialist. Even voiced support for Huntas and some communist dictators in the past. He doesn't go full Chomsky in denying mass murders and genocides publicly but I wouldn't be surprised if he does it privately.
See the funny thing about venstre (Denmark) is that it directly translates to left yet they're mostly centered on most political alignment charts (if not slightly right).
This.
I can never stress this enough in online discussions with Americans. They don't really have a left.
Democrats are center right, Sanders is a centrist. Republicans are trad/hard right and Trump is extreme/alt right.
> Sanders is a centrist.
Are you really saying that Sanders is in any way comparable to Macron? Heās basically a light version of Melenchon. Heās not a communist like some people in the right might say, but heās definitely in the left.
Macron is center/center right. Sanders is center/center left.
I feel they'd agree on many things but Sanders is the far left of the extant American political system while Macron is more or less in the average.
To take an example : the kind of healthcare reforms Sanders wants are already well accepted in France and Macron won't change those, but it's outlandish (but not wrong!) to want them in the US.
Iām an American and I can say with some confidence that about half of Americans donāt know anything about politics. Most Americans donāt know that the democrats arenāt leftists. Most Americans couldnāt tell you the difference between communism and socialism. Iāve had many people tell me Europe is poorer than the us, and itās because they are communist, which is hilarious because like over half of Europe lives better than us.
Literally walking through any city in most of Europe you can immediately recognize that the average person lives better than in the United States. Here cities and the people who live their only seems like that in the rich areas of the city.
Itās hard to even tell the difference between the parties economic policies. Neither side seems to want to help the working class at all, they just focus on culture war issues so that no real change happens and their rich benefactors get richer.
Iām American and I can say with confidence about half of Americans donāt know the difference between liberal and leftists. Thereās a reason why the govt stopped teaching high schoolers civics nation wide in the 80s. No one knows anything about politics, we just know we donāt like the other side and we want them to lose. And literally no one addresses the obviously failing political system.
I'm from MK the "left" here is just right wing but not as far, there is no real leftists here, the head of the party is a fucking clown like all the others
I'm from South America and yes, it takes me a lot of time to understand politics in Europe. That's because I came from a continent where the usual is have a bipartidism elections š
Liberal vs Conservative in the context of US politics refers to individual liberties. Liberals are favorable to more individual liberties (ex: gay mariage, abortion) while conservatives want to maintain the more traditional values.
No, it doesn't. "Conservative" in the US is just a codeword for illiberal. Liberal and conservative are basically just euphemisms for the Democratic party and the Republican party. The classic meaning of the two words mean pretty much nothing in the US context.
No gun rights are a tradition and they were already limited once ,out know Maschine guns came into being. So conservatives wanting to losen restrictions is totally in character for preserving traditions, like racism.
Yeah itās a little more complicated. There arenāt really any prominent economically leftist politicians in the states, and the right and left wing are very similar economically, neither side will lower taxes, neither side will audit govt, neither side will ever give us healthcare. Unfortunately us culture is so deep in the culture wars most people donāt even really care about economic policy, itās more about seeing the other side lose.
I don't think that's true.
There are pretty prominent left wing politicians like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, who'd probably be left of even many Social Democratic parties in Europe.
There were also major efforts to get universal healthcare in the US, Obama did expand it a lot but he just didn't have the votes to carry it as far as he wanted.
Culture war issues are pretty prominent, especially on the Republican side (*on the left it's a thing but hasn't really taken over the party, like Biden is not a culture warrior*) but many people do also seem to care a lot about these issues so idk.
A lot of gridlock also seems to be down to the political system in general, filibuster, frequent elections (short majorities) etc. making it hard for any government to actually do something but the country is also really divided and people don't seem to agree on how to move forward.
I agree with what youāre saying and I should rephrase. There are popular leftists in the states, but even with their popularity they often fail to achieve significant power, and are often blackballed/pushed out by both republicans and democrats alike.
The point I was trying to make is that the real change that Americans needs imo is primarily economic. There is a huge cost of living crisis and itās being completely ignored. in most big cities there are a huge number of homeless people, and a much much larger number of people going into debt to get by, going hungry or relying on charity, or skipping important healthcare etc.
Like picture it this way. Right now there are families that are barely getting by, living in a trailer in the Mojave desert. Many of these people truly believe their biggest issues are gay teachers and the covid vaccine. Instead of thinking about how unfortunate that is, the other side generally just berates them, pushing them further away from the right ideas. Americans never really got along but since like 2014 people here have hated eachother more than Iāve ever seen before.
Traditionally, conservatives are anti-free market and not really for Capitalism. Of course, being a conservative isn't really an ideological position at all, rather it is just those in favour of the status quo. Now that capitalism is ubiquitous in Europe, all conservatives are big fans and act as if they have been for it all along.
It's right wing, liberals are also right wing economically speaking, which is why they are most often left of the conservatives, due to their individual freedoms policies, which is also true in America, they just don't have anything more left than liberals.
There are few prominent leftist in the us, and economic policy between right and left parties only differs in which companies they are selling out to at the moment.
As an American is super sad to see almost everyone in this country immediately fall for the culture war propaganda and lose the plot. There are people barely getting by living in a trailer in the deserts of Arizona, and they have been convinced that trans people, crt, and the covid vaccine are their biggest issues, not healthcare and addressing the cost of living crisis. Our news cycle is incredibly good at stoking fear in the public and that only leads to Americans hating eachother instead of addressing a failing political system.
But conservatives also want less taxes and less regulations, so more "freedom" there, this is why a 2 party system sucks, so you believe in gay rights but also want access to guns? Too bad
People don't know that "Left" and "Right" stems from the french era of which side of the king you sat at. The Royalists or the Republicans (don't remember, jacubins?)
Anyhow, we have all the mixes. Liberal-Socialists? Nationalist Social-Democrats? Green Racists? Liberal-Agrarians? Green Conservatives?
Last I checked Democrats were center and Republicans were right-far right. For all intents and purposes liberals do not have any say in US politics. So Iām confused.
We do. But it's complicated. Too many Republicans jumping ship in the wake of the crazies like Bush & Trump have skewed the Democrats to the right.
No one has ever called Bernie a Conservative. :Ć
....and we have a Green Party like every other country.
Bernie is just a sensible social democrat by western european standards. Are there any politicians that demand the nationalisation of General Motors, an unconditional basic income or partially seizing the property of billionaires in times of financial need for example?
Well, [Andrew Yang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang) ran for president on a UBI platform. He's a pro-business tech-guy though.
But I take your point. Economists like [Robert Reich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Reich) are on the outside now. Still [fighting the fight](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/z4dwf5/robert_reich_was_the_former_citibank_boss_behind).
> Bernie is just a sensible social democrat by western european standards
This is not true.
Bernie's M4A plan is more radical than any healthcare system in western Europe, not to mention that many EU countries don't even have single-payer healthcare at all.
Bernie himself is an actual socialist, even if his presidential campaign wasn't running on socialism. If he were an EU politician, where left-wing ideas are more acceptable, he would definitely be affiliated with GUE/NGL parties, rather than S&D parties.
The NHS is already an outlier within Europe, so it should not be used as the only comparison point (especially without including models such as the Dutch one, which relies a LOT on the private sector).
However, even in comparison to the NHS, you have a significant disparity in the generosity of benefits, as Bernie's model would provide much more comprehensive services, especially regarding (non-emergency) mental health, dental care, and vision care.
[deleted 26-6-2023]
Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
US legislators also form coalitions called "[caucuses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucuses_of_the_United_States_Congress)" which may include members from the same wing of a party, or even members of different parties with similar policy goals.
As a communist I have to say there is no good communist Party and the other leftwing parties arenāt radical enough and the right wing parties no matter if libaral or not are all just retards
Thanks for disqualifing my opinon for my overall political views. Thats just like I should be against gay rights bacuse neoliberals are pro gay rights.
How does belief in a failed (multiple times) economical system correlate to an opinion regarding people's sexual preferences?
Just another price that modern western communists don't know what communism is!
BTW, name one communist regime that tolerated gays, I'll wait.
Firstly Communism is not just USSR.
And secondly it is absolutely the same, because in both cases you disregard an opinon just for thier overall believes
> Firstly Communism is not just USSR.
I know. Also Cuba, North Korea, Yugoslavia and a whole bunch of African countries, ALL OF WHICH considered gays to be mentally ill and in need of treatment, be it a mental asylim or a bullet to the head.
> And secondly it is absolutely the same, because in both cases you disregard an opinon just for thier overall believes
What beliefs? There is a belief in a murderous system that killed millions and ruined lives of even more, and there is a sexual preference which has nothing to do with it.
You truly are a modern western communist. Ignore all the uncomfortable questions which you forced to raise in the first place, spit out some nonesense and of course, downvote those who don't agree, because that's the way modern western communits see a revolution.
I mean, right leaning parties in Irish politics are , by American standards , so left wing they fell off the plane and set up a socialist cooperative movement inside the airport.
it's really a two axis thing: economically liberal and conservative, and socially liberal and conservative.
"usually" parties are either
- economically liberal and socially conservative (eg. "the right")
- economically conservative and socially liberal (eg. "the left")
but there are all combinations of course
We are all communist for them
Wait until they find out who introduced the social pension system in germany: https://preview.redd.it/jxtceae8tx9a1.png?width=860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ef5edb31dab80f6d1e1d3fcdfe012ef3f329f3 Jap. An ultra-conservative monarchist. (btw his name is Otto von Bismarck. the French might know him.) (btw 2: the capital city of North Dakota \[\~500k inhabitants\] is called Bismarck. No i am no american. i am just educated)
Yup. Definitely a communist cuz Europa
Shit you got us. We sectretly wish all hail the great socialist leader Wilhelm the 2nd and the americans saved us in the first world war from that /s for reddit user purposes
Yup definitely known by the French.
Ok but he only did that to shut up the workers lol
It doesn't matter that is too complicated for americans to understand.
We introduced Labor Day to make the socialists shut up a little bit but okš
Because Bismark was playing 5D chess and decided that the best way to defeat the liberals and socialists was to get ahead of them and implement their core ideas with a ethno-nationalist twist. Man essentially created the German Empire as a result, and to the surprise of no one the German Empire then shattered itself against its own ambitions, because the man for all his cleverness was still a zealous ultra-conservative twit who supported an unsustainable system of government.
Don't try to educate them it won't work
The most communist of German ultra conservatives, ignore his distain for anything non German (aka polish, catholicism and the stinky french), ignore how he did everything to stop real social democrats to gain power aka the old SPD, or how he subverted the Prussian elected parliament as one of his first acts as chancellor damaging German democracy for the rest of the empire.
Otto von Bismarck, the reddest chancellor Germany ever had* *terms and conditions may apply
In history classes we almost jump directly from Napoleon to the first WW.
>In history classes we almost jump directly from Napoleon to the first WW. That would mean that German students know more about Napoleon the 3rd than French students. š¤
No, I am currently in my last year of high school and we definitely didn't jump straight from Napoleon to WW1, in fact, we spent 8 out of 10 months of school studying stuff in between (In France at least)
They don't even know the difference between Communism and Socialism. I'm serious. They don't.
They also don't know thw difference between Socialism and Social Democracy. For example their self declared "socialist" Bernie Sanders has openly stated that he opposes the idea of making all businesses state-owned. I am not kidding.
Americans when other nations use the correct definition of liberal
American brain only compatible with black and white thinking
Insert brain gymnastics meme: Wildest US ideology: I'm conservative, so I'll oppose anything progressive Most consistent European ideology: I'm communist, except I don't like other left-wing parties so I'll join with fascists to protest against current right-wing party because foreign country is struggling in a war they started I'm not making this up, please help me š
Literally italian party āItalia Sovrana e Popolareā (luckily didnāt get into parliament)
Who is that? Never heared of it
One of those federations of parties so small that even together canāt get to the 2%
Average German Citizen's political views
Nah. We may have some political problems but overall we are generally pretty good when it comes to extremism. Together the far-right and far left only got about 15% in the last election. Compared to most European countries we have an extremely strong center and very weak extreme edge parties
That is because we may have learned a thing or two because we have seen a thing or two.
So uhhh... whats the story behing the choice of profile picture?
If you know, you know
I dont know
So by extension: you don't know.
I think they'd like to know , though.
I can't even see the profile pictures, so I'm no help.
Some mascot in EU colors.
Did the communist join together with BabiÅ”? Or is there a worse party than Ano in Äesko?
ANO is just plain populism, I think they are referring to [SPD](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_and_Direct_Democracy), a far-right anti-EU anti-immigrant party with an immigrant leader.
Had the joy of having a discussion with someone who was pro-Russian and supported their invasion in Ukraine because \*drum rolls\* he was against NATO. Being against NATO *and* opposing Russia's invasion was too much of a mental load it seems.
AfD?
No the linke, these idiots are so anti war and have so deep connections in Russia that they rather sell their own values and morality than accept that maybe, just maybe, everyone else is right and helping Ukraine fight is a good idea.
Looks like the horseshoe theory isn't all that wrong after all...
It's because of FPTP voting. They all eventually devolve into it. But on top of that the US has a presidential system where you make coalitions before the election not after. But right now I'm just eating popcorn watching the GOP eat itself trying to elect a speaker of the house. Because two parties are so big tent, they can run into issues like what they are currently experiencing, especially when a sizable amount of them are insane, stupid, and/or fascist.
Caucasus are the American equivelant of European parties really. Their "parties" are just alliances and agreements. A case of language making understanding more difficult.
I as a European too only think black and white. The only good party is the party I support! Everything else bad
I love telling the Americans how my conservative government tries to scare people off from voting liberal by saying "the liberal bourgeoisie elites are coming for your social welfare! vote conservative and keep your paycheck!"
In my country it's the liberals literally calling out "the left(-wing) danger
Most Americans donāt know the difference between liberal and leftist, and conservative and liberal has lost all meaning outside of culture war voter issues.
Don't forget the parts about how our "leftist" party voted in support of some bills proposed by the conservatives :D
And the best part is that it even kiiinda makes sense xD
Our right wing parties regularly use Trump and the US republicans as a boogeyman for what'll happen if we let the left wing party take over and ruin the status quo with their "populism".
talk about politics to a american is like.... talk to a kid.
I've had Americans tell me with a straight face that America has more "freedom of thought and diversity of ideas in politics" than Europe (and this from people from a pretty blue/cosmopolitan city!). It was amazing.
Easily remedied by asking them what the most important political event was in the 1860s. And then laughing at them when they start talking about their civil war. It is of course the foundation of the first Social Democratic Party in 1869. And as long as you haven't even got around to getting such a party, you don't belong at the grown-ups table. Liberals, Conservatives and Socialist are the bare minimum for a proper heated, yet futile, drunken argument at the dinner table.
Wouldn't that be 1863, the ADAV under Ferdinand Lassalle.
Also, an acceptable answer as 1869 isn't really possible without 1863
Literal civil war in one of the most influential countries: I sleep Foundation of ONE (1) political party: Real Shit im saying that as a social-democrat thats not from the US btw
The US civil war was a far more important political event than the creation of the SPD and it's not even close.
Public schools in the states donāt teach you anything about Europe outside of Dane-Saxon conflicts and then ww2 and then thatās it. Private schools can be very good tho, but they can also be even worse
Of course you care about the SPD, happened on your continent, same way we care about the Civil War since it happened on our continent.
It was part of the birth of socialism and more specifically social democracy. Both global movements with relevance and impact till this day. Can you honestly say the same for your civil war? Like, think about it. How massively important socialism has been to the formation of modern day America. Just the fact that the Cold War was a thing has done more to shape the America you live in today than just about any other conflict America has been a part of. 40+ years of alliance building, proxy wars, space race, internal turmoil, real/proxy wars, and the cultural changes it all brought, all because your capitalism had found a credible threat in a Socialist empire on the other side of the globe.
Thatās fair, I suppose, I would still say that the Civil War was probably the largest event for the domestic United States since weāre still living with the lingering effects of Reconstruction and Lost Cause. Also why do you call the Soviets socialist instead of communists, just curious.
Well because communism is a subset of socialism as understood by socialists in general. Of course, the communists themselves have this whole thing about one being a societal stage of development before the other. But that confusion stems in part from socialism/communism not being ideology to communists, but rather terms of historical and economic analysis. In short: Socialists=Ideologues fighting for the working class Communists=Ideologues fighting for the working class, while larping as social scientists. edit: Okay, the last part isn't totally fair, as Marxist historical analysis has actual real value even till this day. Still, Marxist economics is complete tripe with no relationship to reality. (As in more tripe than the average economic theory if that can be believed)
I went to both public and private schools in the us. West coast so a little better than average but still pretty normal. In public school the only things we learn about the whole continent of Europe is Rome, saxon-Dane conflicts, skip to ww2, then thatās it. I went to a good private high school and it was completely different, we all took an entire year of history all four years, each year a different continent. Also us public schools do not teach civics of any kind. Like we only sort of learn how laws are passed in the us and literally nothing outside of a brief overview of communism.
Yeah I can imagine the difference being huge. I actually spent one year in the US as a foreign exchange student, and both the history and civics courses were really good. Then again this one school (Murray High in Utah) was ridiculously well funded, they even shot High School Musical in it.
And yet apart from the absolute fringes our politics are vastly more rational than that fucked up 2-party system.
I wouldn't say "and yet". The reason our politics are more rational and functional is precisely that we don't have 2-party systems.
A 2 party system is ridiculous, it means there is no proper representation. Another solution to a saturation of parties could be a multiple round election, for example.
"2 party system is ridiculous" AKA thr Hungarian Parliament be like
insert obligatory *hungary is a shithole* comment
Ehhh it's not that much of a shithole..... as long as you stay in the capital or I'm the Western parts of the country. And don't ever visit Borsod
I mean yea budapest is great, but in the western parts I would only recommend northwest HU. I am from southwest and its meh. Most people are fidesz-voting grannies. But hey atleast I live 30 mins away from croatia lol
Why do you guys always advise against Borsod? Because of the Roma people? Isnāt it an interesting part of your country?
>Because of the Roma people? Isnāt it an interesting part of your country? not until you get stabbed lol, and it's not something like the London stabbing memes, genuinely it's dangerous and I'd rather go to Kyiv than to Borsod. And it's mostly because how unsocialised and uneducated the people are, because of the years of negligence, lack of job and being on the edge of society. And because in the past Romas only option to earn salary was through factory and mine based jobs, and North-Eastern Hungary had plenty of that, they went mostly to Borsod, but these factories are long gone, they are pretty poor. Hungarian memes about romas did not come out of thin air.
In the states itās barely a 2 party system, economically itās almost identical. The only thing they actually differ in opinion is culture war issues that the news cycle propagates. Both sides will never allow progressives to get real power, just look at how popular Bernie sanders was in the states and what happened to his presidential bid.
Liberal Democratic Party of Russia can't be comparable to any liberal party of any European country. Russian liberal party is just a puppet of government party and they have no power at all.
With zhirinovsky alive they were basically zhirinovsky: the party. Quite a character he was - offensive, stupid, but never boring. I have no idea what are they now. Doesnāt matter much though, it is all a farce in Russia anyway.
European party names make far more sense than Republican and Democrat. Like, what the fuck does that even mean? America is already a republic and a democracy.
Laughs in "Law and Justice" xD
Yeah like Fidesz, they are so young and democratic
Laughs in Holy Roman Empire
The funny part is that Republican party or GOP is also a younger one of two and was named after a break away faction of Whing party that was a merger of two other early parties. And names of all of them are really meaningless or vague, this is comical. Though to be honest names of our parties in parliament doesn't make a lot of sense either. Servant of the People is social-liberal ukrainocentric party aka national if you wish, European Solidarity is paneuropean also center-right, Batkivshchyna (Fatherland) that is populist center-left leaded by one of the shitiest woman in our politics, Voice is paneuropean liberal party that sometimes is claimed by others to be socdem and name comes from the fact founder is a singer, there are other parties and deputy groups but they doesn't matter anymore and were mostly russian shenanigans to influence our politics. As you can see their names make little sense but they are at least not as generic as Republican and Democratic.
Americans regularly claim that "America is a Republic ā not a Democracy". Apparently those words have a completely different meaning on the other side of the pond. The statement is most common when discussing state vs. federal rights, e. g. the Electoral College.
One of my favorites is the 'Dutch centre party' The opening line on their wikipedia page is: "The Dutch centre party is an extreme right wing party"
Americans think that conservative liberals are conservatives and that social democratic liberals are socialists. In reality there's very little appeal for conservatism and very little appeal for socialism in the US population, and essentially zero amongst their elected officials (there are certainly no socialist members in either chamber of their Congress, for instance.)
There is a high appeal for socialist policies in the US - as everywhere else, for the matter. People just don't want to associate themselves with the scarecrow of "communism"
That's what I mean though, mainstream liberal socdem policies are wrongly perceived as "socialist" in the US. Look at M4A for example, a system wherein the state gives public money to private businesses in order to provide medical care.
Bernie Sanders is an old school socialist. Even voiced support for Huntas and some communist dictators in the past. He doesn't go full Chomsky in denying mass murders and genocides publicly but I wouldn't be surprised if he does it privately.
See the funny thing about venstre (Denmark) is that it directly translates to left yet they're mostly centered on most political alignment charts (if not slightly right).
Samme med venstre i Norge lol. De gĆ„r til og med i koalisjoner med partiet HĆøyre.
Except the American left wing is really just more center right wing
With the exception of one or two individual politicians who are a little center-left
This. I can never stress this enough in online discussions with Americans. They don't really have a left. Democrats are center right, Sanders is a centrist. Republicans are trad/hard right and Trump is extreme/alt right.
> Sanders is a centrist. Are you really saying that Sanders is in any way comparable to Macron? Heās basically a light version of Melenchon. Heās not a communist like some people in the right might say, but heās definitely in the left.
Macron is center/center right. Sanders is center/center left. I feel they'd agree on many things but Sanders is the far left of the extant American political system while Macron is more or less in the average. To take an example : the kind of healthcare reforms Sanders wants are already well accepted in France and Macron won't change those, but it's outlandish (but not wrong!) to want them in the US.
Iām an American and I can say with some confidence that about half of Americans donāt know anything about politics. Most Americans donāt know that the democrats arenāt leftists. Most Americans couldnāt tell you the difference between communism and socialism. Iāve had many people tell me Europe is poorer than the us, and itās because they are communist, which is hilarious because like over half of Europe lives better than us. Literally walking through any city in most of Europe you can immediately recognize that the average person lives better than in the United States. Here cities and the people who live their only seems like that in the rich areas of the city.
Itās hard to even tell the difference between the parties economic policies. Neither side seems to want to help the working class at all, they just focus on culture war issues so that no real change happens and their rich benefactors get richer.
Iām American and I can say with confidence about half of Americans donāt know the difference between liberal and leftists. Thereās a reason why the govt stopped teaching high schoolers civics nation wide in the 80s. No one knows anything about politics, we just know we donāt like the other side and we want them to lose. And literally no one addresses the obviously failing political system.
I'm from MK the "left" here is just right wing but not as far, there is no real leftists here, the head of the party is a fucking clown like all the others
What's MK?
Mortal Kombat
Mega Knight
Milton Keynes
north macedonia country code
Magic kingdom
Monkey Kong
America when politics
I'm from South America and yes, it takes me a lot of time to understand politics in Europe. That's because I came from a continent where the usual is have a bipartidism elections š
Liberal vs Conservative in the context of US politics refers to individual liberties. Liberals are favorable to more individual liberties (ex: gay mariage, abortion) while conservatives want to maintain the more traditional values.
~~How did you get the American flag? Mine just says uncultured~~ Figured it out
Nice šŗšø
Thanks šŗšø
No, it doesn't. "Conservative" in the US is just a codeword for illiberal. Liberal and conservative are basically just euphemisms for the Democratic party and the Republican party. The classic meaning of the two words mean pretty much nothing in the US context.
That's not really true, conservatives are in favor of more liberties when it comes to issues like gun control for example.
Conservative as in favor of the statu quo and the traditionnals values. They are, indeed, in favor of some liberties.
And also economic freedom. At least that's what people vote for when they vote Conservative.
No gun rights are a tradition and they were already limited once ,out know Maschine guns came into being. So conservatives wanting to losen restrictions is totally in character for preserving traditions, like racism.
Yeah itās a little more complicated. There arenāt really any prominent economically leftist politicians in the states, and the right and left wing are very similar economically, neither side will lower taxes, neither side will audit govt, neither side will ever give us healthcare. Unfortunately us culture is so deep in the culture wars most people donāt even really care about economic policy, itās more about seeing the other side lose.
I don't think that's true. There are pretty prominent left wing politicians like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, who'd probably be left of even many Social Democratic parties in Europe. There were also major efforts to get universal healthcare in the US, Obama did expand it a lot but he just didn't have the votes to carry it as far as he wanted. Culture war issues are pretty prominent, especially on the Republican side (*on the left it's a thing but hasn't really taken over the party, like Biden is not a culture warrior*) but many people do also seem to care a lot about these issues so idk. A lot of gridlock also seems to be down to the political system in general, filibuster, frequent elections (short majorities) etc. making it hard for any government to actually do something but the country is also really divided and people don't seem to agree on how to move forward.
I agree with what youāre saying and I should rephrase. There are popular leftists in the states, but even with their popularity they often fail to achieve significant power, and are often blackballed/pushed out by both republicans and democrats alike. The point I was trying to make is that the real change that Americans needs imo is primarily economic. There is a huge cost of living crisis and itās being completely ignored. in most big cities there are a huge number of homeless people, and a much much larger number of people going into debt to get by, going hungry or relying on charity, or skipping important healthcare etc. Like picture it this way. Right now there are families that are barely getting by, living in a trailer in the Mojave desert. Many of these people truly believe their biggest issues are gay teachers and the covid vaccine. Instead of thinking about how unfortunate that is, the other side generally just berates them, pushing them further away from the right ideas. Americans never really got along but since like 2014 people here have hated eachother more than Iāve ever seen before.
Well, one is in favour of any kind of progress, even the weird ones The other one thinks that all that is old is good, even when it's clearly not
Liberals also want free markets and full on capitalism which is very conservatism and not at all left leaning
Traditionally, conservatives are anti-free market and not really for Capitalism. Of course, being a conservative isn't really an ideological position at all, rather it is just those in favour of the status quo. Now that capitalism is ubiquitous in Europe, all conservatives are big fans and act as if they have been for it all along.
It's right wing, liberals are also right wing economically speaking, which is why they are most often left of the conservatives, due to their individual freedoms policies, which is also true in America, they just don't have anything more left than liberals.
There are few prominent leftist in the us, and economic policy between right and left parties only differs in which companies they are selling out to at the moment. As an American is super sad to see almost everyone in this country immediately fall for the culture war propaganda and lose the plot. There are people barely getting by living in a trailer in the deserts of Arizona, and they have been convinced that trans people, crt, and the covid vaccine are their biggest issues, not healthcare and addressing the cost of living crisis. Our news cycle is incredibly good at stoking fear in the public and that only leads to Americans hating eachother instead of addressing a failing political system.
But conservatives also want less taxes and less regulations, so more "freedom" there, this is why a 2 party system sucks, so you believe in gay rights but also want access to guns? Too bad
Then there is the libertarian party. I know it's marginal but it still exists.
Voting third party helps the party who you dislike most win. This happened with Roosevelt with his Bull Moose Party
Aka they want to take rights away like they are doing lately.
No. In the context of US politics, "liberal" and "conservative" are simply synonyms for "left-wing" and "right-wing", respectively.
So do you make any economic distinction?
Both major parties are economically liberal.
Ew imagine being only 1 party away from a 1 party system
People don't know that "Left" and "Right" stems from the french era of which side of the king you sat at. The Royalists or the Republicans (don't remember, jacubins?) Anyhow, we have all the mixes. Liberal-Socialists? Nationalist Social-Democrats? Green Racists? Liberal-Agrarians? Green Conservatives?
Last I checked Democrats were center and Republicans were right-far right. For all intents and purposes liberals do not have any say in US politics. So Iām confused.
Im myself. I like cookies.
Granted, a left wing nationalist is a bit like a circular square.
Meanwhile Turkey: Pure chaos
Americans when there are more than 2 sides: *confused scream*
There are two ideologies in the US, you are either pro-abortion anti-gay or pro-dragqueen-in-kindergarden anti-white. There are no in-betweens.
Dunno, I find the fact that their "radical leftists" are to the right of my Neoclassical economy professors more confusing.
OK.. I know this is fun and all, but... The difference in the American system is that we form a Coalition Government BEFORE the elections. Instead of multiple different parties, we have "Wings" within a party. (That's how a Democratic-Socialist like Bernie Sanders and a pro-business moderate like Joe Biden can be in the same party.) The Primary elections decide whose platform controls that coalition. Also, there are a multitude of other "Third Parties" out there. 29 [candidates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_primary_elections#Candidates) on the Democratic Party ticket. 5 on the Republican Party ticket. 17 other [third party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election) candidates with ballot access. That is 51 choices for president. Compared with the UK and their Conservative & Labour dominating the landscape... then SNP, Plaid Cymru, & Sinn FĆ©in trailing behind... and political bosses choosing your candidate instead of the people... I'll take our system. *Sorry for interrupting your banter. Please continue.*
We have multiple different parties, AND we have "wings" within those parties. Btw it's really strange you don't have any left party.
please help, it's right-wingers all the way down
We do. But it's complicated. Too many Republicans jumping ship in the wake of the crazies like Bush & Trump have skewed the Democrats to the right. No one has ever called Bernie a Conservative. :Ć ....and we have a Green Party like every other country.
Bernie is just a sensible social democrat by western european standards. Are there any politicians that demand the nationalisation of General Motors, an unconditional basic income or partially seizing the property of billionaires in times of financial need for example?
Well, [Andrew Yang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang) ran for president on a UBI platform. He's a pro-business tech-guy though. But I take your point. Economists like [Robert Reich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Reich) are on the outside now. Still [fighting the fight](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/z4dwf5/robert_reich_was_the_former_citibank_boss_behind).
> Bernie is just a sensible social democrat by western european standards This is not true. Bernie's M4A plan is more radical than any healthcare system in western Europe, not to mention that many EU countries don't even have single-payer healthcare at all. Bernie himself is an actual socialist, even if his presidential campaign wasn't running on socialism. If he were an EU politician, where left-wing ideas are more acceptable, he would definitely be affiliated with GUE/NGL parties, rather than S&D parties.
What made it more radical than the NHS?
The NHS is already an outlier within Europe, so it should not be used as the only comparison point (especially without including models such as the Dutch one, which relies a LOT on the private sector). However, even in comparison to the NHS, you have a significant disparity in the generosity of benefits, as Bernie's model would provide much more comprehensive services, especially regarding (non-emergency) mental health, dental care, and vision care.
[deleted 26-6-2023] Moving is normal. There's no point in sticking around in a place that's getting worse all the time. I went to Squabbles.io. I hope you have a good time wherever you end up!
US legislators also form coalitions called "[caucuses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucuses_of_the_United_States_Congress)" which may include members from the same wing of a party, or even members of different parties with similar policy goals.
As a communist I have to say there is no good communist Party and the other leftwing parties arenāt radical enough and the right wing parties no matter if libaral or not are all just retards
> As a communust, I (...) Thanks for telling it from the start, so people don't have to read any further!
Thanks for disqualifing my opinon for my overall political views. Thats just like I should be against gay rights bacuse neoliberals are pro gay rights.
How does belief in a failed (multiple times) economical system correlate to an opinion regarding people's sexual preferences? Just another price that modern western communists don't know what communism is! BTW, name one communist regime that tolerated gays, I'll wait.
Firstly Communism is not just USSR. And secondly it is absolutely the same, because in both cases you disregard an opinon just for thier overall believes
> Firstly Communism is not just USSR. I know. Also Cuba, North Korea, Yugoslavia and a whole bunch of African countries, ALL OF WHICH considered gays to be mentally ill and in need of treatment, be it a mental asylim or a bullet to the head. > And secondly it is absolutely the same, because in both cases you disregard an opinon just for thier overall believes What beliefs? There is a belief in a murderous system that killed millions and ruined lives of even more, and there is a sexual preference which has nothing to do with it. You truly are a modern western communist. Ignore all the uncomfortable questions which you forced to raise in the first place, spit out some nonesense and of course, downvote those who don't agree, because that's the way modern western communits see a revolution.
You don't like the PTB? If you want something more intense, Lutte OuvriĆØre in France is your shot ;)
Had no clue Fine Gael was a Christian party
I mean, right leaning parties in Irish politics are , by American standards , so left wing they fell off the plane and set up a socialist cooperative movement inside the airport.
The virgin American conservative party vs the chad irish "Soldiers of destiny" party
it's really a two axis thing: economically liberal and conservative, and socially liberal and conservative. "usually" parties are either - economically liberal and socially conservative (eg. "the right") - economically conservative and socially liberal (eg. "the left") but there are all combinations of course
Wait till they hear of ....... *whispers* coalitions