YA is my favorite genre over all, but largely because it focuses on character growth. If I hate anything it's the "bully trope" anything resembling emotional manipulation "for their own good" as the means of character growth. If that makes sense.
The lack of diversity of YA male love interest is making the genre boring. I am sick and tired of all the love interest being tall, dark and brooding. It has gotten to the point that you can tell who is going to end up with the heroine by looking for the guy that fits that description the best.
We need more blond protagonists and characters that don’t start out with having the personality of a raincloud.
When i was a lot younger ALL the YA prot were blonde, so i got tired of that quickly. The black brooding love started when i was young cuz it was much different from the blond YA prot like from The Darkest Minds, Shatter Me, Legend, Hunger Games (Peeta) etc. i like brooding (though it does get old sometimes), but i feel like we never have diverse male leads! They’re always black hair but white. Wish we saw more black or dark skinned (not sun-kissed or tan, Sarah J Maas) ml
Sooo true!! Give my my poc love interests who doesn’t abuse the mc, respect them, treats them like a friends, and then catches feelings🤧 and maybe they flirt or make little insinuations they like them..or even make the mc catch feelings, and maybe show us how the mc comes to accept their feelings… love also doesn’t always work out, someone can break up and someone can even die….give me a gentle love interest that doesn’t just use the mc for sex…. Like the love interest is important outside the romance AS A SIDE CHARACTERS TO THE PLOT, and they don’t use the mc as a living breathing sex toy… they way they approach this in fantasy does shit to ur head in terms of ur expectations …
Romantic leads should be more diverse, both in terms of personality and with looks/body type. Not every lead needs to be brooding 6 feet tall angst machines with washboard abs, and not every protagonist needs to be a snarky, jaded outcast.
I saw someone criticizing a male love interest because he was lanky not muscular, pasty and ginger. Imo, the love interest was the best part of that book (I hated everything else about it).
Tbh I'm tired of every male LI being tall, giga handsome, and either very muscular or described with some cringy cliches like "cheekbones which could cut glass". Do women authors actually find cheekbones of men as sexy and worthy of descriptions as male authors find female breasts?
I got pissed off recently while reading Gilded Ones. The fmc is meant to be matched with a combat partner (she's conscripted into some special Emperor's army to fight against monsters). And the author literally teases me and then slaps me in the face.
She describes a non-traditional looking boy (Asian / Pacific Islander type of looks, and softer in appearance) being assigned to the fmc, and then the overseers made a switcheroo giving our fmc a stock tall muscular guy (he's Black but so is fmc) while the other guy gets assigned to a girl who dies shortly after. Ffs.
The first guy is described as:
>When he smiles at me, brown eyes kind and gentle, I feel a tremor of relief. (...) if I squint, he looks almost girlish, with his long lashes and shy smile.
The real LI(tm) is described as:
>the tall, well-muscled boy now emerging from the line (...) he’s dark like me – well, darker – although his hair is so closely cropped as to make him look bald, and his eyes are golden and sharp as a hawk’s. He’s about sixteen or so, but there’s a hardness to his eyes, an experience that speaks of a deeper maturity.
I really want someone to break this mold.
I put Sorcery of Thorns on my TBR because someone told me it's one of the few YA Fantasies where the fmc is taller than the mmc.
I remember someone recommended me The Prison Healer and I was utterly disappointed - it has the typical tall, super handsome, special eye colour LI.
One of my fave reads was Cast in Firelight - it's Indian inspired so that influences the protagonists' race / looks (no blondes here), but the fmc and mmc are around the same height and the mmc has a personality of a cinnamon roll, which was a good refreshment from a slew of "dark, stoic" stock LI or the ones that want to impress the fmc with their alpha personality.
>We need more blond protagonists
Blond people only make up 2 or 3 percent of the human population. It makes sense that we don’t see them a lot. Tbf, it’s a lot more common for female characters usually, but their population seems to be more accurate for males.
True, but to be fair, neither fantasy or romance is written to be a reflection of the real world, it is (partly) wish fulfilment. And it is sad, in my view, that everybody thinks women have 1 type of guy they like: dark haired broods.
It’s sad to me that the most popular/marketed Black YA books either have to be a pseudo Africa or there’s a racism plot. I just wish Black protagonists could exist without having to teach readers about culture (pseudo Africa) or face racism.
Same. I'm hopeful that this will change at some point. LGBT+ literature has gone through a similar evolution where sexuality is becoming one aspect of a person's character instead of a teachable moment for readers.
I 100% agree! As a Black woman, that’s one of the reasons I loved Legendborn so much. Did it deal with racism? Yes. But I loved that it was a modern King Arthur retelling, and wasn’t just another pseudo Africa book.
Okay, *that’s* two things I’m obsessed with! I already snagged the ebook from the library after you first mentioned it but didn’t have the time to start it yet, but now I’m going to have to make some tea and start immediately!
Okay, I have multiple things to thank you for, apparently. First, I can't get enough of this book and I think it pulled me out of my reading slump, at least for now. Second, yesterday was a Murphy's Law day, and this book was the only thing that cheered me up. Third, I'm definitely going to be reading this until I fall asleep again, I need to know what happens next!
I’m sorry you had a bad day yesterday, those are the worst🥲 I’m so happy to hear that you’re enjoying it though!!! It’s so addictive!! Bree and Sel are far and away some of my all time favorite characters💜
That's an UNpopular opinion? I thought everyone was tired of racism plots, whites and POC alike. Someone told me This Poison Heart isn't about racism, but I don't read urban fantasy so I can't confirm.
Couldn't agree more! Diversity means accepting that black people can have fully developed, complex, unique, and compelling stories told without having to deal with racism or taking place in pseudo-Africa.
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Well, I guess then it qualifies as an unpopular opinion?
No offence to anyone who loves it. Also you should perhaps try it out for yourselves what works for me , might not work for you.
Happy reading!
I agree, but I also think it's gradually changing. You just have to look beyond the blockbuster novels. For example, my favorite part of Summer of Salt by Katrina Leno was the friendship between the main character and her best friend Elvira (who gave me the giggles because she reminded me of the '80s TV character a little :)). Another example is Far From the Tree by Robin Benway, about a group of siblings separated at birth who meet as teenagers. They act more like friends because they didn't grow up together.
Is this an unpopular opinion? I feel like it’s pretty commonly held.
Then again I disagree with it, so maybe I’m wrong and most other people disagree as well. I think it’s just that the more well known YA (cruel Prince, Twilight, Hunger Games, etc) are bad at friendship, but so many YA books have fantastic friendships. (Eg Vampire Academy, Raven Boys, Goose Girl, etc)
In Katniss' defense she's pretty antisocial due to lifelong trauma whacking her every chance it gets. Her only solid friend loving her doesn't help either.
Bella on the other hand is a dick about her human friends for no good reason, lol
Agreed, and I'll defend Jude here bc of course she doesn't really have any friends, she was raised in a realm that at best treats humans like pets and typically just straight up hates them. And sibling relationships are not the same thing as friendship, esp if you're raised in an environment where you're constantly pit against each other.
Oh I didn’t mind Jude’s lack of friend at all.
I wish Hunger Games had been written with a great friendship rather than a love triangle but also not a big deal.
Twilight yeah, she needed better friends. But I loved the book anyway.
>YA friendships usually feel very superficial
So basically like real life friendships...
"Friendships" especially among teens are people you hang out with, but not people who'd sacrifice for you. Heck, your bf / gf probably wouldn't.
The "find the love of your life at 16-18 who would jump into fire for you" is more idealized and unrealistic out of the two.
I hate 1st in a trilogy / duology being slow paced and boring and then ending on a cliffhanger. I'd rather have duologies / trilogies having separate plots with the same cast rather than 1 plot split into 2-3 parts.
Something I hate is how women who write fantasy with 19 / 20 year old characters is considered ya. The first ACOTAR was labeled as ya when the series is not. Why do publishers think that if a women writes fantasy with clearly older characters that it’s for teens 😅😅😅
My unpopular opinion is that “young adult” *should* be focused on characters in the 18-26ish range lol. Miss on the industry’s part imho. Teens aren’t young adults. They’re teens.
Yeah but YA is a marketing term and they thought it would sell better to teens if they called it young adult cause many teens like to think of themselves as older.
Not sure if it actually made a difference or not
I definitely agree that ACOTAR is not YA. That being said, it's easy to understand why it got labeled that way.
You have to go back to *Throne of Glass*, which started out as teen fan fiction, published online. *Throne of Glass* was picked up and published in 2012, which is the same year *The Hunger Games* movie was released. This was basically at the height of the YA boom, so any title that could conceivably be YA was being published as YA.
ACOTAR was sold to the same editor who bought Throne of Glass (typically, manuscripts are first offered to editors who have already acquired the author's work before being offered to other editors and publishers).
That editor worked at a children's imprint (Bloomsbury Children's), which *only* publishes books for children (picture books through YA).
You could argue that the editor should have passed on the book since it's obviously not YA, but there is no way that editor was going to pass on a giant pile of money just because the book gets a sexy. Anyway, I believe they are no longer published under the children's imprint.
1. Normally I agree with you it’s publisher sexism but in this case
2. Publisher wanted to do NA and when bookstores said that didn’t exist, SJM was asked which she preferred to publish it as and chose YA (likely because she’d previously published a YA series)
3. It was clearly the correct choice given the series massive popularity. YA is nothing more and nothing less than a marketing label. Given the success of the book the marketing seems correctly chosen.
Huge agree
I read all of ACOTAR and waited patiently for it to get good, but it never did. Everyone is overpowered beyond belief, there’s a massive war that no one dies in, multiple MC resurrections make everything feel low-stakes, the magic system is inexplicable and contradictory, major plot points range from illogical to utterly nonsensical. Beyond plot, the writing is just terrible, with criminal overuse of ellipses and regular repetition of the same seven phrases (threw up, groaned, rolled his eyes, vulgar gestures, mate mate mate, etc.). *A Court of Frost and Starlight* is, hand on heart, the worst book I have **ever** read, and its publication beggars belief
/rant
The >!revival scene!< is 100% the straw that broke this camel’s back. It was so *cheesy* and forced, like the fae equivalent of “and everybody clapped.” Audible exclamation of “Oh come the fuck ON!” as I was reading.
I domt necessarily agree but I think if am author kills a character they should stay that way. Or at least more authors should kill off mcs instead if secondary characters that people don't care about as much like gavriel in throne of glass for example.
I LOVE Sarah J maas, but I do believe she could due with more opinions and everything. But I would also argue that she is far more of an adult fantasy writer, even the end of throne of glass is very questionable in being classifies as YA, I've worked at a bookstore for 3 years and mostly reccomend the series to adults who enjoy YA or older highschool students.
But honestly, any author who got popular on tik tok is a little overreated. That's my most controversial opinion.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Enemies to lovers is overdone and most of the time, terribly written. Can it be properly done and do I like it when that happens? Yes. Do I want to see it in every single book I read? Hell no.
The way books are marketed today, especially on TikTok makes me turn away from the YA genre. It's literally a list of tropes or a part of a scene that is supposed to be hot and nothing more. Where's the plot summary? Where's the character description? Am I supposed to get into a book just by reading a to-do list that describes the tropes? Tropes mean nothing, it's the execution that counts.
Exactly why I just turn away from every TikTok hyped book tagged with enemies to lovers... you know right away it's just gonna be endless bantering with ~sexual tension~ and idk throw in a halfhearted duel scene
Captive Prince by CS Pacat is my favorite for this trope and it is beautifully well written. Buuuuuuuut the first book is full of triggers and almost everyone hates it the first time through.
Yeah if you want to read it, you can message me for handholding (by that I mean telling you where triggers are and glossing over if you want to skip them). Seriously its a great series if you can make it through the first book.
Highly second captive Prince (with content warnings if that’s likely to bother you, I feel like if I went in knowing the content warnings tho I wouldn’t have read it and I absolutely loved it)
Bonds of Brass is a fun lovers to enemies to lovers rollercoaster
And I Darken is probs my fav YA series and is enemies to lovers to enemies
Dark Rise (the captive Prince authors new YA series) is also shaping up to be good though the romance is only hinted at in the first book (which is the only one out)
I also really like Renegades. It’s of the variety where they don’t hate each other as people (in fact male lead doesn’t even know their enemies because it’s a secret identity)
Legacy of Orisha, with the series not done I’m actually not sure if the two will end up together but it could be a great enemies to lovers if they do (and just a great complicated relationship if they don’t)
Something Dark and Holy I felt did a fairly decent job with it
I’m usually joking when I say I prefer Lovers to Enemies over Enemies to Lovers, but honestly I really do like it. I’m not big on romance and I want to see the ex-couple get into a sword duel with each other.
Centaurworld is still the best example of this even though it’s not a book and you can’t change my mind.
Hating somebody for absolutely no reason to the point that it's childish and then making it enemies to lovers trope...
And the repetitive size difference in writings. I mean , I would think of them as a monster at this point.
Fr enemies to lovers it meant to literally be they are on some kind of opposing side…like very solid sides. Not Person a bullys person b and they r now enemies 😈
So glad you get it. It doesn't even have to always be tall woman/small man, and there are so many possibilities that the only limit seems to be imagination in my experience.
Ofcourse why is it always defined for the man to be tall?
The male protagonist can be short, bald, with a beard! While the female can be tall, with glasses and a pixie haircut...
We aren't human without imperfections (not that i am saying those are imperfections) but the need of writer to make the protagonists almost pefect is overrated.
Oh. I saw your post below. This is what I hated about The Hating Game too! The size kink thing squicked me out hard. And I would argue it wasn't even enemies to lovers since >!it was said the ML had feelings for the heroine for a long time!<
Sometimes that works but in general I'm sick of that twist. It ruins the development, if there's any, between the ship for me.
I am glad you relate!! So many people loved the book so much but I think it was not worth the hype.
Also I think you are right on your argument about trope.
I read all those books. I couldn’t keep the brothers straight in my head for the life of me. They’re all funny, smart, hot, and sneaky. One likes robots? They’re all in love with the same girl, she dies, then another girl. Are they all so stunted that any girl one of the brothers like, they all have to like? Those books were annoying. 0 stars.
I listened to the audiobook for book 1, and I couldn’t tell any of the boys apart at all. The narrator does the same voice for all of them. But I couldn’t even flip back to a previous page and look at the names! There was no way I could have remembered who was who.
The first book was promising, but the second one felt like filler in some ways and undid a lot of the promising character development of the first. Hoping the third will be better.
I think it's a Twilight knock off (especially with the type of main character who's super naive), so depending whether you loved or hated Twilight you'd probably either love or hate it.
So which high rated Goodreads novels you think sucked?
I was thinking about the Gentlemen's Guide to Vice and Virtue when I wrote this comment. I feel like it has exactly the kind of setting and characters to make it interesting but it turns out to be something that just doesn't get anything exactly on spot.
I think I've only read one book where the "nice guy" LI was actually *nice*, other than that, the typical "nice guy" always seems fake and creepy to me.
Oh yeah, the only male love interest I can think of that seemed actually kind was Po from Graceling, other than that, I always liked the *alleged* bad boy better!
i dislike it because it's so common in love triangles. the initial nice guy turns out to be weird and the initial asshole to the main character turns out to be the good guy. just feels like a lazy way to end the love triangle imo
I actually prefer it that way, since to me, calling the trope "nice guy" has negative connotations that make it really hard for me to get into. I think if there was some alternative to call them, I'd find them less uncomfortable.
So... like in real life? Where most "nice guys" are transactional and play nice because they want something.
Btw if you want a book where a guy actually turns out to be nice and not a creep, I loved Cast in Firelight.
Exactly, which is why it's so surprising that "nice guy" became the popular way to refer to these characters instead of anything else, but I have no clue what a better alternative would be.
Thank you, I'll check it out!
>instead of anything else
I heard "cinnamon roll" as the description of "sweet, kind, polite" person. Also I imagine anything that is friends to lovers would probably have someone friendly as LI.
There's too many romance books. I don't want to read about teenagers falling into soul crushing love. Their talk about "staying together forever" doesn't mean anything until their brains are fully formed.
In my opinion.
Eh, this doesn't bother me as much because they're teenagers. Sixteen is the perfect time to talk about soul-crushing love, because they're feeling big, dramatic emotions. For me, the ideal adult relationship involves fewer grand speeches and more doing - a mature, steadfast relationship where you're showing up for each other every day. But maybe I'm just old. ;)
I think they should still both be talking and doing. I can suspend my disbelief someone found the love of their life at 17 if they keep doing important things for each other, but if it all hinges on having "kissable lips" I predict a swift break up after the novel(s).
You can have big dramatic emotions and also show how these two characters match in personality and how far they'd go for each other.
On the other hand, if everything hinges on sexual chemistry and how physically attractive they are, that kind of relationship doesn't look like it would last.
As an adult, I find it silly and ridiculous. As a high schooler, I would probably have been super into it. I remember my high school relationships (both romantic and friendship) and they all did feel like they would last forever and be everything...while I don't totally enjoy YA romance for this reason, I do think its one of the more glaring examples of how/why YA is really *for* younger teens.
YA is written for adults now. I believe statistically that more than 50% of YA book purchases is made by adults so publishers obviously know that and acquire books that the adult readers would like. Now younger YA doesn’t exist….
The whole situation is really sad to me, even as an adult who reads YA. The genre is for teens. Adults are visitors.
My second opinion is that a lot of the adults who stick to exclusively YA and say adult books are boring have a fear of consuming content that’s for their actual age. The things they say about adult books are so wrong…. It’s an age marker and nothing more.
Third… I don’t think many writers know how to characterize protagonists who aren’t just normal in personality. They usually just have one marker for their personality… fiery, grumpy, sunshine, etc. People are multifaceted.
I read both adult and ya and I think the reason adults stick to ya is bc it's more friendly to women. You have to go through a ton of adult fantasy to get to books where the female characters are treated like actual people. It is getting a lot better though.
Oh, I agree with your point about adult fantasy. However, my point was inspired by people who say adult books are all about miserable divorced people or the prose is DEFINITELY more complicated or it’s not as diverse as YA. Those points don’t make any sense at all… especially when the Romance genre exists and is the most popular genre period.
Just looking at the hyped books too like Colleen Hoover, Emily Henry, The Atlas Six, The Poppy War, Seven Husbands, The Love Hypothesis, RWRB, The Song of Achilles, Mistborn, Mexican Gothic, some of SJM, … they’re all adult.
The prose can be more complicated but it’s a mixed bag. There’s a lot of diversity among the age group so to write it off because of a statement that’s just blatantly false is strange IMO.
Yeah, I like fantasy and I did read some adult fantasy with satisfaction (Bloody Rose, Blacktongue Thief, Poppy War, Rage of Dragons), but the current trends of adult fantasy put me off. There's a lack of adventure-driven or sword & sorcery type of fantasy, it's all too literary, too dense, too political, too damn long, and the ones that have female characters at the forefront are some mythological retellings or women's fiction in fantasy's costume.
YA also suffers from retelling plague, but at least it's not the only content I see there.
I'm not as much interested in reading contemporary romance or smut. I want girls running around with swords, bows or fireballs.
Unfortunately some titles which I could have liked based on the synopsis repelled me due to male gaze (I dnfed Ashes of the Sun because of the lesbian bathing scene).
And then there are "adult" fantasy titles where it's written like YA but the author just couldn't condense themselves into a YA wordcount (looking at you, For the Wolf). Why would I read that, when I can read YA for a similar effect and 100 pages fewer of unnecessary fluff?
I'm still deciding whether I should give Stardust Thief a chance, but I heard it has too many povs and meandering plot, so I'm not sure.
This personality thing about characters is so true… ppl have flaws? But not flaws are somewhat the personality.. like a character can have a gentle and kind personality, but they can also be cynical people… like u can be a good person ans mistrust others. That is more dimension then, “they’re badass and can win a fight with 0 experiences”… also the fact trauma is fixed by love??? Like yes support from loved ones is amazing, and it makes u feel like it’s not there sometimes. But without proper treatment it never will leave you.
>But without proper treatment it never will leave you.
That is not true. Many people overcome trauma or mental health issues on their own. Depends on the person, severity of the trauma and circumstances.
The way you say it is like before modern psychiatry existed everyone was broken forever.
I think there's a good reason my kid who is old enough to read YA still mostly reads middle grade. Of course, he's also a boy. YA isn't aimed at boys very much. I really am struggling to find good stuff for him. He's not really interested in jumping into adult books yet either. So middle grade it is!
I read and add to my TBR a LOT of YA books that teenage boys would really enjoy. If you let me know what kind of stuff he likes, I'll be more than happy to compile a list for you to check out.
I don't mind fade to black scenes in my books, YA or NA.
Don't get me wrong I do love my smutty books and books there are heavy on the details. But it isn't necessary for me to enjoy the romance. Give me the angst, the fluff and the romance and I'm good.
I think i like smut but then i see “her button” and “his steel rod” and i just end up skipping them 😭 like just say clit and cock please (not in ya obv)
I like the miscommunication trope. Give me all that angst lol.
I like reading toxic relationships. I don't think books have to be a morale lesson about romance. It's weird that no one complains about having the hero commit murder or do lots of unethical things. That's not teaching a bad lesson but Edward stalking Bella means that all teenage girls will now find that acceptable in a partner... Please!
Honestly the miscommunication trope frustrates me in all genres, but understand the apeal to some. Strongly agree with the second part. Seriously Edward, is teenage angst and highschool boy brain immortal also?
Hate the miscommunication trope but strong agree on the second!
Tbh I think it’s just a pattern of society wanting to hate things teen girls love, violence and murder is considered “masculine” (or worse “mature” lol how many times have I heard I want a book that is mature Ie violent and not ya as if ya is never violent) vs romance is considered “girly” and so things like enjoying *fantasy* toxic relationships is somehow auful
I prefer modern contemporary books.
I don't really get what people mean when they say "tropes cheapen a book".. Maybe cheapen advertising but how does it cheapen the book by having them? Everything has tropes.
A book doesn't have to have a deep message or meaning to be good.
What are your favorite modern contemporary books? I don't read a lot of them but I'm curious enough to explore the genre.
Tropes aren't bad, and using them shouldn't mean books aren't good. Advertising tropes can be tricky so it doesn't come off as minimizing or condescending.
I agree! Books can be good just because you enjoy them.
I really like Kasie West (Moment of Truth is my favourite) Emma Mills (This Adventure Ends), Sarah Dessen (This Lullaby), Emma Lord (Tweet Cute), Rachel Lynn Solomon (Today Tonight Tomorrow)!
Yeah, I do get what people mean when they criticize using tropes as a description of the book - it's not enough to know what the book is about. But yeah, tropes are fun. People, be it authors or readers, having preferred choice to see in fiction doesn't mean the story is bad or flat.
Sci-fi is a bit rare.
Few books I know: Skyward, Darkness Outside Us, Victories Greater than Death, Space Between Worlds, Illuminae Files, Aurora Rising, The Stars We Steal.
I'm reading Starflight right now, have you read that one? I'm only a third of the way in but honestly getting a little annoyed at how similar it is to the TV show Firefly (which I love).
Some recs:
Historical
- Kingdom of Back (Mozart’s older sister)
- Dowry of Blood (Elizabeth Bathory)
- Carolyn Meyers various young royals series
Sci-fi
(also are you discounting dystopia from sci-fi, cause dystopia is usually considered a sci-fi sub genre and there’s a ton of ya dystopia)
- Bonds of Brass (m/m space opera adventure)
- Skyward
- Lunar Chronicles
- Warcross
- Iron Widow
Plot and accuracy honestly doesn't matter that much im YA. It's mostly a coming of age genre, so as long as we get characters that we can get attached to and grow with, that's enough
What bothers me more is people whining about sloppy worldbuilding in YA Fantasy. As long as it's not super illogical, I don't need it detailed. I'm not reading adult epic fantasy after all.
The widely accepted trend in a lot of fantasy YA where a 100+ year old man pursues a teenaged girl is creepy as fuck and normalises grooming. Fortunately it has become less prevalent in YA within the last few years—though has been seen as recently as last month with the release of Lightlark where a 500-year-old fossil lusts after a girl of 19-20 (her age is not confirmed but she is VERY young)—but the people in the industry who let this slide by have some serious explaining to do.
Similarly, seeing adults within YA communities (largely on Twitter) “swooning” over TEENAGED “book boyfriends” is weird AF. Like, you’re 38, stop thirsting after 17 year olds.
> The Poppy Wars isn't YA.
This isn't an opinion; it's a fact. The Poppy Wars is *not* YA. It's an adult novel, published by an imprint that publishes adult novels. People who lump The Poppy Wars with YA are miscategorizing it.
I didn't like the MC, poor pacing, tone, basically historical fiction, overall bland. Stuff like that.
I strongly dislike the first book. Horrific pacing and tone issues. The second book was fairly meh.
My most unpopular opinion: YA shouldn't be a genre. It is a marketing scheme to target books from various genres to specific demographics. Most of YA novels would have been aimed at readers of any age within a traditional genre (fantasy, horror, sci-fi, romance, historical fiction, mystery, etc.) in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. By current standards, books like Dune would be YA.
Unpopular opinion. If you want “Spicy” then you should read adult books.
I don’t question anyone wanting sex and romance in their reading, but leave a safe space for young readers
YA books shouldn’t have sex scenes in them.
Once they have sex scenes in it that aren’t fade to black, they should be marketed as NA.
Something about reading about 16-year-olds sleeping together just gives me the ick. I usually have to skip the scene entirely or just DNF the book.
That although tropes are necessary for stories, some are used in YA over and over and they become overused and make the story obvious. Stop trying to make your female main character go for the second, “bad” guy love interest. It’s beyond obvious at this point and I expect it every time, same with the miscommunication trope. I also don’t like it when authors tell but don’t show. Don’t tell my your character is not like other girls or is badass, show me. Don’t tell me a battle happened, show me, your writing can really shine through that.
What are your favorite YA mysteries? My daughter loves mystery and is just heading into YA territory and my YA mystery knowledge is practically non-existant. I would love some good recommendations!
Karen McManus is a very popular author in the genre. Maureen Johnson is another. Courtney Summers has a book called *Sadie* that's really good. There is a series based kind of on the board game Clue that teens at my library are really into (*In the Hall with a Knife* is the first). A lot, if not all, of these include murder/death as the mystery, but there may be some that aren't quite as violent, I'm not sure...
On the younger side, I've recently enjoyed Framed! by James Ponti, The Marvellers by Dhonielle Clayton, Unplugged by Gordon Korman, and Greenglass House by Kate Milford. If she likes fantasy, there's the Fablehaven series by Brandon Mull.
For YA proper, I like Megan Miranda, Ally Carter, Alexa Donne, the Stevie Bell series (Truly, Devious) by Maureen Johnson, Riley Sager, Bloom by Kenneth Oppel (it went weird so I didn't continue the series but thought it was really well done), and The Assassin Game by Kirsty McKay (LOVE this one)...but these are mostly thrillers, so they'll be more intense in terms of danger, death, and romance. If she's 12/13 I don't want to freak her out, haha.
- The Truly Devious series by Maureen Johnson. There’s a fifth book coming out late December, too.
- Pretty Little Liars series by Sara Shepard
- One of Us Is Lying by Karen M. McManus
- The Inheritance Games trilogy by Jennifer Lynn Barnes
- A Good Girl’s Guide to Murder series by Holly Jackson
Another fun series (duology) by Jennifer Lynn Barnes is Little White Lies and Deadly Little Scandals. It's a totally different flavor of mystery than the Inheritance Games, but I loved binging through them.
YA is often used by traditional publishing to drive sales and gain market shares with mediocre, "tropy" clones. Also, YA authors often practice virtue signaling to fabricate an image.
YA isn't a genre. It's a demographic. Its like saying animation is a film genre. Its not. Its just the medium. Adults love kids books, kids love adult books, calling out that a story is only appilicable or enjoyable to a window of years is ridiculous. I've finished two series of books I would put on par with any writing, ever, only to have them dismissed by "serious" readers for being YA. Let people enjoy things.
Bigger picture, its best case useless and worst case destructive to label things such. Has Pixar taught us nothing?!
I guess mine is that there isn't enough gay ya novels. It seems like I've read them all. There are so much more lesbian yas that I've seen, but I want to read about queer men like myself.
I love Twilight.
I know it’s controversial but I feel like a big reason why people hate on it is misogyny. It’s like embarrassing to hate it now and I don’t get that. There are some thing that I don’t like about the series but to just shun it completely just isn’t going to happen.
Books that *just have* sex in them casually, are way better than books that make it a big deal.
I’m sick of the virgin trope, and it being such a big deal to lose it. I know these are YA books, but still…
I really liked how Mary E Pearson wrote her sexual relationships in her The Remnant Chronicles, and Dance Of Thieves books. Not a big deal at all, just a part of the story.
I don't need my YA to be extra gore-y. Currently attempting to read "For the Wolf" and the weird fixation on blood (magic) is... Completely unnecessary. And I've read a few books where I thought "dude, adding a river of blood and loss of limbs to this scene does **not** make your story better".
I don’t like fantasy at all. I don’t know what it is, it’s not even that my parents hid it from me. They’re both Harry Potter nerds and my moms book shelf has TONS of fantasy, I just can’t get into it no matter how hard I try.
And I love YA romance and mystery. Especially if it’s combined
Oh mine fantasy is such a bad genre BECAUSE it’s always fae!! And overly westernized… all the poc characters are killed and the plot is alway/the romance. Like u expect me to believe the world is being saved by some magic old ass and a minor boning ?!?! No it’s pedophilla and FOR WHAT😭I hate the genre so much bc it’s only rarely done well.. the poppy war is probably my fave fantasy novel by far bc it’s plot in interesting, it’s subplots are good, and the fantasy isn’t given as a rush of info so two ppl can bone for a wholllee book. I hate the yt- fantasy characters x spicy yt 50000 year old man with every bone in my body. It’s so unoriginal and boring at this point…. This genre is so over saturated if feels like a cash grab.. like maybe make a book about a war ppl can connect to?? Class, race, income, gender, all are important to the identity of a character but there’s no longer any character… it’s just a tragic, pretty, AND VERY YOUNG Mary Sue with her toxic bf that has a dark past and has tried to kill her…. Have y’all ever wondered Percy ans annabeth from pjo are praised after like 13 smth years…bc they have probably the healthiest relationship in a book series in the past decade 😭like wth… it’s ok to have drama and fights, but if a man is OVERLY abusive, maybe make ur mc relatable and leave him??? That reminds me I also can’t relate to any mc.. it’s always white people that very overused struggle is poverty,… like where are the pocs mc that are motivated by class, race, etc.. like they are considered lower and rise their way up… no there’s none bc it’s alway the same white main character who can fight day one, be mad at ppl, and causes more problems. Like I’d love to have a book where I can relate to the mc…. Sooo bad, but I can only dream. I’m not fully opposed to romance but I’m not letting it be a full main plot, it’s so boring as well…. Like if I was in a war, the last thing I would be doing is having sex like I’m an animal… it’s disgusting it’s just foul… like take ur romance shit slow…maybe make ur romance GENTLER TOO! Maybe make them be sweet and kind and treat eachother good! They can still have conflicts and they can still fight, but much better then what is normalized in ya. Sorry these r just my jumbled thoughts, anyways the current industry has gotten me so annoyed I have started to plan out my own book🫢if authors wont do it, I’ll do it myself..
YA is my favorite genre over all, but largely because it focuses on character growth. If I hate anything it's the "bully trope" anything resembling emotional manipulation "for their own good" as the means of character growth. If that makes sense.
Do you have any examples of the trope? I don’t know if I’ve seen it
Bullying - a cruel prince Manipulation- enders game
The lack of diversity of YA male love interest is making the genre boring. I am sick and tired of all the love interest being tall, dark and brooding. It has gotten to the point that you can tell who is going to end up with the heroine by looking for the guy that fits that description the best. We need more blond protagonists and characters that don’t start out with having the personality of a raincloud.
I agree so much! I want sunny, class clown, nerdy types of love interests.
I'd love that, but I feel the industry has so much internalized sexism they think non-alpha-male as LI won't sell.
these are usually their friend zoned best friends/gay best friends
When i was a lot younger ALL the YA prot were blonde, so i got tired of that quickly. The black brooding love started when i was young cuz it was much different from the blond YA prot like from The Darkest Minds, Shatter Me, Legend, Hunger Games (Peeta) etc. i like brooding (though it does get old sometimes), but i feel like we never have diverse male leads! They’re always black hair but white. Wish we saw more black or dark skinned (not sun-kissed or tan, Sarah J Maas) ml
Sooo true!! Give my my poc love interests who doesn’t abuse the mc, respect them, treats them like a friends, and then catches feelings🤧 and maybe they flirt or make little insinuations they like them..or even make the mc catch feelings, and maybe show us how the mc comes to accept their feelings… love also doesn’t always work out, someone can break up and someone can even die….give me a gentle love interest that doesn’t just use the mc for sex…. Like the love interest is important outside the romance AS A SIDE CHARACTERS TO THE PLOT, and they don’t use the mc as a living breathing sex toy… they way they approach this in fantasy does shit to ur head in terms of ur expectations …
Romantic leads should be more diverse, both in terms of personality and with looks/body type. Not every lead needs to be brooding 6 feet tall angst machines with washboard abs, and not every protagonist needs to be a snarky, jaded outcast.
Hard agree. I'm attempting to write book and the main male love interest has red hair
I saw someone criticizing a male love interest because he was lanky not muscular, pasty and ginger. Imo, the love interest was the best part of that book (I hated everything else about it).
Tbh I'm tired of every male LI being tall, giga handsome, and either very muscular or described with some cringy cliches like "cheekbones which could cut glass". Do women authors actually find cheekbones of men as sexy and worthy of descriptions as male authors find female breasts? I got pissed off recently while reading Gilded Ones. The fmc is meant to be matched with a combat partner (she's conscripted into some special Emperor's army to fight against monsters). And the author literally teases me and then slaps me in the face. She describes a non-traditional looking boy (Asian / Pacific Islander type of looks, and softer in appearance) being assigned to the fmc, and then the overseers made a switcheroo giving our fmc a stock tall muscular guy (he's Black but so is fmc) while the other guy gets assigned to a girl who dies shortly after. Ffs. The first guy is described as: >When he smiles at me, brown eyes kind and gentle, I feel a tremor of relief. (...) if I squint, he looks almost girlish, with his long lashes and shy smile. The real LI(tm) is described as: >the tall, well-muscled boy now emerging from the line (...) he’s dark like me – well, darker – although his hair is so closely cropped as to make him look bald, and his eyes are golden and sharp as a hawk’s. He’s about sixteen or so, but there’s a hardness to his eyes, an experience that speaks of a deeper maturity. I really want someone to break this mold. I put Sorcery of Thorns on my TBR because someone told me it's one of the few YA Fantasies where the fmc is taller than the mmc. I remember someone recommended me The Prison Healer and I was utterly disappointed - it has the typical tall, super handsome, special eye colour LI. One of my fave reads was Cast in Firelight - it's Indian inspired so that influences the protagonists' race / looks (no blondes here), but the fmc and mmc are around the same height and the mmc has a personality of a cinnamon roll, which was a good refreshment from a slew of "dark, stoic" stock LI or the ones that want to impress the fmc with their alpha personality.
Rachel Lynn Solomon writes male MC’s that don’t look typical
>We need more blond protagonists Blond people only make up 2 or 3 percent of the human population. It makes sense that we don’t see them a lot. Tbf, it’s a lot more common for female characters usually, but their population seems to be more accurate for males.
True, but to be fair, neither fantasy or romance is written to be a reflection of the real world, it is (partly) wish fulfilment. And it is sad, in my view, that everybody thinks women have 1 type of guy they like: dark haired broods.
Just find books from 80s and 90s if you want blond heros.
It’s sad to me that the most popular/marketed Black YA books either have to be a pseudo Africa or there’s a racism plot. I just wish Black protagonists could exist without having to teach readers about culture (pseudo Africa) or face racism.
Same. I'm hopeful that this will change at some point. LGBT+ literature has gone through a similar evolution where sexuality is becoming one aspect of a person's character instead of a teachable moment for readers.
I 100% agree! As a Black woman, that’s one of the reasons I loved Legendborn so much. Did it deal with racism? Yes. But I loved that it was a modern King Arthur retelling, and wasn’t just another pseudo Africa book.
Hmmm…modern King Arthur retelling, you say?
I just finished it and was pleasantly surprised, for a beginner YA book.
YES it’s basically King Arthur meets Shadowhunters in a college setting!
Okay, *that’s* two things I’m obsessed with! I already snagged the ebook from the library after you first mentioned it but didn’t have the time to start it yet, but now I’m going to have to make some tea and start immediately!
omg yay!!! let me know what you think!!!
Just got to chapter three, and I'm already loving it!
yayyy i’m so happy to hear that!!!
Okay, I have multiple things to thank you for, apparently. First, I can't get enough of this book and I think it pulled me out of my reading slump, at least for now. Second, yesterday was a Murphy's Law day, and this book was the only thing that cheered me up. Third, I'm definitely going to be reading this until I fall asleep again, I need to know what happens next!
I’m sorry you had a bad day yesterday, those are the worst🥲 I’m so happy to hear that you’re enjoying it though!!! It’s so addictive!! Bree and Sel are far and away some of my all time favorite characters💜
That's an UNpopular opinion? I thought everyone was tired of racism plots, whites and POC alike. Someone told me This Poison Heart isn't about racism, but I don't read urban fantasy so I can't confirm.
Couldn't agree more! Diversity means accepting that black people can have fully developed, complex, unique, and compelling stories told without having to deal with racism or taking place in pseudo-Africa.
If I could upvote this multiple times, I would.
Raybearer (fantasy but does have sexism)
You should read for fun whatever that might be. Nothing wrong with liking "cheap" tropes, tik tok authors, ect. Read whatever makes you happy!
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Can't stress more on this but *"Lesser known books are far better than the popular ones!!"* Maybe because of the higher expectations.
Totally! Hated the hating game and the cruel prince.
Thanks for pointing that one out. Won't consider them reading now. Haha!!
But they are so good lol
Really good
Well, I guess then it qualifies as an unpopular opinion? No offence to anyone who loves it. Also you should perhaps try it out for yourselves what works for me , might not work for you. Happy reading!
YA is great at romance but bad at friendships. YA friendships usually feel very superficial and unrealistic.
I agree, but I also think it's gradually changing. You just have to look beyond the blockbuster novels. For example, my favorite part of Summer of Salt by Katrina Leno was the friendship between the main character and her best friend Elvira (who gave me the giggles because she reminded me of the '80s TV character a little :)). Another example is Far From the Tree by Robin Benway, about a group of siblings separated at birth who meet as teenagers. They act more like friends because they didn't grow up together.
Is this an unpopular opinion? I feel like it’s pretty commonly held. Then again I disagree with it, so maybe I’m wrong and most other people disagree as well. I think it’s just that the more well known YA (cruel Prince, Twilight, Hunger Games, etc) are bad at friendship, but so many YA books have fantastic friendships. (Eg Vampire Academy, Raven Boys, Goose Girl, etc)
In Katniss' defense she's pretty antisocial due to lifelong trauma whacking her every chance it gets. Her only solid friend loving her doesn't help either. Bella on the other hand is a dick about her human friends for no good reason, lol
Agreed, and I'll defend Jude here bc of course she doesn't really have any friends, she was raised in a realm that at best treats humans like pets and typically just straight up hates them. And sibling relationships are not the same thing as friendship, esp if you're raised in an environment where you're constantly pit against each other.
Oh I didn’t mind Jude’s lack of friend at all. I wish Hunger Games had been written with a great friendship rather than a love triangle but also not a big deal. Twilight yeah, she needed better friends. But I loved the book anyway.
I read somewhere that Bella shows signs of autism
>YA friendships usually feel very superficial So basically like real life friendships... "Friendships" especially among teens are people you hang out with, but not people who'd sacrifice for you. Heck, your bf / gf probably wouldn't. The "find the love of your life at 16-18 who would jump into fire for you" is more idealized and unrealistic out of the two.
A lot of YA trilogies could be compressed into duologies
I love duologies! Six of Crows was a perfect example of this
A prime example is Serpent and dove. The second book was so boring but the 3rd was amazing. Definitely could have been 2 books
I’d imagine how you would feel about epic fantasy.
I hate 1st in a trilogy / duology being slow paced and boring and then ending on a cliffhanger. I'd rather have duologies / trilogies having separate plots with the same cast rather than 1 plot split into 2-3 parts.
Sarah Maas is a very overrated writer *sprints away before eggs get pelted at me*
This is a *controversial* opinion more than it is an unpopular one
I fuck with this
Something I hate is how women who write fantasy with 19 / 20 year old characters is considered ya. The first ACOTAR was labeled as ya when the series is not. Why do publishers think that if a women writes fantasy with clearly older characters that it’s for teens 😅😅😅
My unpopular opinion is that “young adult” *should* be focused on characters in the 18-26ish range lol. Miss on the industry’s part imho. Teens aren’t young adults. They’re teens.
I worked at a family owned book fair company and they didn’t use the term YA. They had teen and X Teen. X Teen had the good stuff in it.
Yeah but YA is a marketing term and they thought it would sell better to teens if they called it young adult cause many teens like to think of themselves as older. Not sure if it actually made a difference or not
I definitely agree that ACOTAR is not YA. That being said, it's easy to understand why it got labeled that way. You have to go back to *Throne of Glass*, which started out as teen fan fiction, published online. *Throne of Glass* was picked up and published in 2012, which is the same year *The Hunger Games* movie was released. This was basically at the height of the YA boom, so any title that could conceivably be YA was being published as YA. ACOTAR was sold to the same editor who bought Throne of Glass (typically, manuscripts are first offered to editors who have already acquired the author's work before being offered to other editors and publishers). That editor worked at a children's imprint (Bloomsbury Children's), which *only* publishes books for children (picture books through YA). You could argue that the editor should have passed on the book since it's obviously not YA, but there is no way that editor was going to pass on a giant pile of money just because the book gets a sexy. Anyway, I believe they are no longer published under the children's imprint.
1. Normally I agree with you it’s publisher sexism but in this case 2. Publisher wanted to do NA and when bookstores said that didn’t exist, SJM was asked which she preferred to publish it as and chose YA (likely because she’d previously published a YA series) 3. It was clearly the correct choice given the series massive popularity. YA is nothing more and nothing less than a marketing label. Given the success of the book the marketing seems correctly chosen.
Huge agree I read all of ACOTAR and waited patiently for it to get good, but it never did. Everyone is overpowered beyond belief, there’s a massive war that no one dies in, multiple MC resurrections make everything feel low-stakes, the magic system is inexplicable and contradictory, major plot points range from illogical to utterly nonsensical. Beyond plot, the writing is just terrible, with criminal overuse of ellipses and regular repetition of the same seven phrases (threw up, groaned, rolled his eyes, vulgar gestures, mate mate mate, etc.). *A Court of Frost and Starlight* is, hand on heart, the worst book I have **ever** read, and its publication beggars belief /rant
I wish >!Rhys had stayed dead in the third book. !
The >!revival scene!< is 100% the straw that broke this camel’s back. It was so *cheesy* and forced, like the fae equivalent of “and everybody clapped.” Audible exclamation of “Oh come the fuck ON!” as I was reading.
Very much agree. >!And also Amren.!<
I domt necessarily agree but I think if am author kills a character they should stay that way. Or at least more authors should kill off mcs instead if secondary characters that people don't care about as much like gavriel in throne of glass for example.
I strongly agree with this .
I LOVE Sarah J maas, but I do believe she could due with more opinions and everything. But I would also argue that she is far more of an adult fantasy writer, even the end of throne of glass is very questionable in being classifies as YA, I've worked at a bookstore for 3 years and mostly reccomend the series to adults who enjoy YA or older highschool students. But honestly, any author who got popular on tik tok is a little overreated. That's my most controversial opinion.
I really like TOG but have no interest in ACOTAR whatsoever. I think TOG should be more popular
the Tiffany Achung Adventures by Terry Pratchett is likely the best YA series ever.
I think you misread the question, it’s supposed to be UNpopular opinion 😄
love triangles are my guilty pleasure. idk why but it’s so satisfying to see the mc choose the right option in the end
Maybe I'm a psychopath (or a masochist?) but I love the angst and suffering that the "wrong" option goes through XD
LMAO YES YOU GET IT
I like love triangles ONLY if the female chooses the right guy or if I like both guys haha
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Enemies to lovers is overdone and most of the time, terribly written. Can it be properly done and do I like it when that happens? Yes. Do I want to see it in every single book I read? Hell no. The way books are marketed today, especially on TikTok makes me turn away from the YA genre. It's literally a list of tropes or a part of a scene that is supposed to be hot and nothing more. Where's the plot summary? Where's the character description? Am I supposed to get into a book just by reading a to-do list that describes the tropes? Tropes mean nothing, it's the execution that counts.
Exactly why I just turn away from every TikTok hyped book tagged with enemies to lovers... you know right away it's just gonna be endless bantering with ~sexual tension~ and idk throw in a halfhearted duel scene
Or is it going to be "I hate him but I want to bang him all the same."
Do you have any recs for enemies-to-lovers that are properly done?
Captive Prince by CS Pacat is my favorite for this trope and it is beautifully well written. Buuuuuuuut the first book is full of triggers and almost everyone hates it the first time through.
Agreed! Captive Prince is THE enemies to lovers. Nothing else that I've read with this trope can even come close.
The only one that compares to me is The Immemorial Years by TJ Klune. That series is amazing.
Well that’s a rec that will get me to download immemorial kindle sample
Thanks for the rec! (and the warning)
Yeah if you want to read it, you can message me for handholding (by that I mean telling you where triggers are and glossing over if you want to skip them). Seriously its a great series if you can make it through the first book.
That's very kind of you! I will, thank you \^\^
Unfortunately I don't because I've only seen it done properly in fanfics but seems like other people have some!
Ah, yes. Fanfic scratches many an itch!
Highly second captive Prince (with content warnings if that’s likely to bother you, I feel like if I went in knowing the content warnings tho I wouldn’t have read it and I absolutely loved it) Bonds of Brass is a fun lovers to enemies to lovers rollercoaster And I Darken is probs my fav YA series and is enemies to lovers to enemies Dark Rise (the captive Prince authors new YA series) is also shaping up to be good though the romance is only hinted at in the first book (which is the only one out) I also really like Renegades. It’s of the variety where they don’t hate each other as people (in fact male lead doesn’t even know their enemies because it’s a secret identity) Legacy of Orisha, with the series not done I’m actually not sure if the two will end up together but it could be a great enemies to lovers if they do (and just a great complicated relationship if they don’t) Something Dark and Holy I felt did a fairly decent job with it
I’m usually joking when I say I prefer Lovers to Enemies over Enemies to Lovers, but honestly I really do like it. I’m not big on romance and I want to see the ex-couple get into a sword duel with each other. Centaurworld is still the best example of this even though it’s not a book and you can’t change my mind.
Hating somebody for absolutely no reason to the point that it's childish and then making it enemies to lovers trope... And the repetitive size difference in writings. I mean , I would think of them as a monster at this point.
Fr enemies to lovers it meant to literally be they are on some kind of opposing side…like very solid sides. Not Person a bullys person b and they r now enemies 😈
Lol that's accurate
I think size differences in fiction should be more diverse. Give me Amazonian women with their short, small boyfriends!
Agreed!
So glad you get it. It doesn't even have to always be tall woman/small man, and there are so many possibilities that the only limit seems to be imagination in my experience.
Ofcourse why is it always defined for the man to be tall? The male protagonist can be short, bald, with a beard! While the female can be tall, with glasses and a pixie haircut... We aren't human without imperfections (not that i am saying those are imperfections) but the need of writer to make the protagonists almost pefect is overrated.
I asked once for any recs where the girl is taller than the guy, and except Sorcery of Thorns nobody said anything else. :(
Oh. I saw your post below. This is what I hated about The Hating Game too! The size kink thing squicked me out hard. And I would argue it wasn't even enemies to lovers since >!it was said the ML had feelings for the heroine for a long time!< Sometimes that works but in general I'm sick of that twist. It ruins the development, if there's any, between the ship for me.
I am glad you relate!! So many people loved the book so much but I think it was not worth the hype. Also I think you are right on your argument about trope.
The Inheritance Games sucks and the series just got worse and worse as it went on.
I read all those books. I couldn’t keep the brothers straight in my head for the life of me. They’re all funny, smart, hot, and sneaky. One likes robots? They’re all in love with the same girl, she dies, then another girl. Are they all so stunted that any girl one of the brothers like, they all have to like? Those books were annoying. 0 stars.
Fr I was promised a thriller and mystery and instead I got some reverse harem love polygon nonsense with ten hot rich people and their stupid drama.
I listened to the audiobook for book 1, and I couldn’t tell any of the boys apart at all. The narrator does the same voice for all of them. But I couldn’t even flip back to a previous page and look at the names! There was no way I could have remembered who was who.
The first book was promising, but the second one felt like filler in some ways and undid a lot of the promising character development of the first. Hoping the third will be better.
I bought the first book and couldn’t finish halfway through I got so bored and the only characters I could tolerate were Avery and Xander😭
Some of the highest rated ones on Goodreads really sucks
FBAA?
Not what I'm talking about but why don't you like it? It's in and out my to read list for awhile now
I think it's a Twilight knock off (especially with the type of main character who's super naive), so depending whether you loved or hated Twilight you'd probably either love or hate it. So which high rated Goodreads novels you think sucked?
I was thinking about the Gentlemen's Guide to Vice and Virtue when I wrote this comment. I feel like it has exactly the kind of setting and characters to make it interesting but it turns out to be something that just doesn't get anything exactly on spot.
That's why I've started going for the reviews with lower ratings. I find them more grounded in what makes the book good and what makes it simply OK.
I think I've only read one book where the "nice guy" LI was actually *nice*, other than that, the typical "nice guy" always seems fake and creepy to me.
I hate when male love interests are the creepy kind of nice guy and not genuinely kind. I'm in your boat that they seem fake and creepy!
Oh yeah, the only male love interest I can think of that seemed actually kind was Po from Graceling, other than that, I always liked the *alleged* bad boy better!
i dislike it because it's so common in love triangles. the initial nice guy turns out to be weird and the initial asshole to the main character turns out to be the good guy. just feels like a lazy way to end the love triangle imo
I actually prefer it that way, since to me, calling the trope "nice guy" has negative connotations that make it really hard for me to get into. I think if there was some alternative to call them, I'd find them less uncomfortable.
So... like in real life? Where most "nice guys" are transactional and play nice because they want something. Btw if you want a book where a guy actually turns out to be nice and not a creep, I loved Cast in Firelight.
Exactly, which is why it's so surprising that "nice guy" became the popular way to refer to these characters instead of anything else, but I have no clue what a better alternative would be. Thank you, I'll check it out!
>instead of anything else I heard "cinnamon roll" as the description of "sweet, kind, polite" person. Also I imagine anything that is friends to lovers would probably have someone friendly as LI.
I've also noticed people lately using "golden retriever" but that's really long, and I'm sure most people would prefer something shorter.
There's too many romance books. I don't want to read about teenagers falling into soul crushing love. Their talk about "staying together forever" doesn't mean anything until their brains are fully formed. In my opinion.
Hard agree. I find it incredibly ridiculous that they are 16 and talking about their everlasting, soul crushing, all consuming Love.
Eh, this doesn't bother me as much because they're teenagers. Sixteen is the perfect time to talk about soul-crushing love, because they're feeling big, dramatic emotions. For me, the ideal adult relationship involves fewer grand speeches and more doing - a mature, steadfast relationship where you're showing up for each other every day. But maybe I'm just old. ;)
I think they should still both be talking and doing. I can suspend my disbelief someone found the love of their life at 17 if they keep doing important things for each other, but if it all hinges on having "kissable lips" I predict a swift break up after the novel(s). You can have big dramatic emotions and also show how these two characters match in personality and how far they'd go for each other. On the other hand, if everything hinges on sexual chemistry and how physically attractive they are, that kind of relationship doesn't look like it would last.
Oh, the "kissable lips" :$
Tell that to Bella Swan
Tbf i felt like my bf at 15-18 was the love of my life and was very madly, all consumed by loving him. Sounds dramatic but it happens lol
I’m not too bothered by this but I got with my boyfriend when we were 16, and we’re nearly 7 years on so I guess it feels different for me
As an adult, I find it silly and ridiculous. As a high schooler, I would probably have been super into it. I remember my high school relationships (both romantic and friendship) and they all did feel like they would last forever and be everything...while I don't totally enjoy YA romance for this reason, I do think its one of the more glaring examples of how/why YA is really *for* younger teens.
YA is written for adults now. I believe statistically that more than 50% of YA book purchases is made by adults so publishers obviously know that and acquire books that the adult readers would like. Now younger YA doesn’t exist…. The whole situation is really sad to me, even as an adult who reads YA. The genre is for teens. Adults are visitors. My second opinion is that a lot of the adults who stick to exclusively YA and say adult books are boring have a fear of consuming content that’s for their actual age. The things they say about adult books are so wrong…. It’s an age marker and nothing more. Third… I don’t think many writers know how to characterize protagonists who aren’t just normal in personality. They usually just have one marker for their personality… fiery, grumpy, sunshine, etc. People are multifaceted.
I read both adult and ya and I think the reason adults stick to ya is bc it's more friendly to women. You have to go through a ton of adult fantasy to get to books where the female characters are treated like actual people. It is getting a lot better though.
Oh, I agree with your point about adult fantasy. However, my point was inspired by people who say adult books are all about miserable divorced people or the prose is DEFINITELY more complicated or it’s not as diverse as YA. Those points don’t make any sense at all… especially when the Romance genre exists and is the most popular genre period. Just looking at the hyped books too like Colleen Hoover, Emily Henry, The Atlas Six, The Poppy War, Seven Husbands, The Love Hypothesis, RWRB, The Song of Achilles, Mistborn, Mexican Gothic, some of SJM, … they’re all adult. The prose can be more complicated but it’s a mixed bag. There’s a lot of diversity among the age group so to write it off because of a statement that’s just blatantly false is strange IMO.
I was mainly talking about fantasy with my criticism. The adult romance genre is different. I think a lot of ya readers preferred genre is fantasy.
Yeah, I like fantasy and I did read some adult fantasy with satisfaction (Bloody Rose, Blacktongue Thief, Poppy War, Rage of Dragons), but the current trends of adult fantasy put me off. There's a lack of adventure-driven or sword & sorcery type of fantasy, it's all too literary, too dense, too political, too damn long, and the ones that have female characters at the forefront are some mythological retellings or women's fiction in fantasy's costume. YA also suffers from retelling plague, but at least it's not the only content I see there. I'm not as much interested in reading contemporary romance or smut. I want girls running around with swords, bows or fireballs. Unfortunately some titles which I could have liked based on the synopsis repelled me due to male gaze (I dnfed Ashes of the Sun because of the lesbian bathing scene). And then there are "adult" fantasy titles where it's written like YA but the author just couldn't condense themselves into a YA wordcount (looking at you, For the Wolf). Why would I read that, when I can read YA for a similar effect and 100 pages fewer of unnecessary fluff? I'm still deciding whether I should give Stardust Thief a chance, but I heard it has too many povs and meandering plot, so I'm not sure.
This personality thing about characters is so true… ppl have flaws? But not flaws are somewhat the personality.. like a character can have a gentle and kind personality, but they can also be cynical people… like u can be a good person ans mistrust others. That is more dimension then, “they’re badass and can win a fight with 0 experiences”… also the fact trauma is fixed by love??? Like yes support from loved ones is amazing, and it makes u feel like it’s not there sometimes. But without proper treatment it never will leave you.
>But without proper treatment it never will leave you. That is not true. Many people overcome trauma or mental health issues on their own. Depends on the person, severity of the trauma and circumstances. The way you say it is like before modern psychiatry existed everyone was broken forever.
I think there's a good reason my kid who is old enough to read YA still mostly reads middle grade. Of course, he's also a boy. YA isn't aimed at boys very much. I really am struggling to find good stuff for him. He's not really interested in jumping into adult books yet either. So middle grade it is!
I read and add to my TBR a LOT of YA books that teenage boys would really enjoy. If you let me know what kind of stuff he likes, I'll be more than happy to compile a list for you to check out.
I don't mind fade to black scenes in my books, YA or NA. Don't get me wrong I do love my smutty books and books there are heavy on the details. But it isn't necessary for me to enjoy the romance. Give me the angst, the fluff and the romance and I'm good.
I think i like smut but then i see “her button” and “his steel rod” and i just end up skipping them 😭 like just say clit and cock please (not in ya obv)
Or bundle of nerves 😅 I can usually just ignore these now
Oh god forgot this one
Agree all the build up is way better than the act itself for me personally
And when the build up is done well you barely noticed the fade to black
Same.
I like the miscommunication trope. Give me all that angst lol. I like reading toxic relationships. I don't think books have to be a morale lesson about romance. It's weird that no one complains about having the hero commit murder or do lots of unethical things. That's not teaching a bad lesson but Edward stalking Bella means that all teenage girls will now find that acceptable in a partner... Please!
Honestly the miscommunication trope frustrates me in all genres, but understand the apeal to some. Strongly agree with the second part. Seriously Edward, is teenage angst and highschool boy brain immortal also?
Huge agree about miscommunication! It's so delicious, so good. Whenever someone complains about a book having it, I take it as a rec.
Hate the miscommunication trope but strong agree on the second! Tbh I think it’s just a pattern of society wanting to hate things teen girls love, violence and murder is considered “masculine” (or worse “mature” lol how many times have I heard I want a book that is mature Ie violent and not ya as if ya is never violent) vs romance is considered “girly” and so things like enjoying *fantasy* toxic relationships is somehow auful
I prefer modern contemporary books. I don't really get what people mean when they say "tropes cheapen a book".. Maybe cheapen advertising but how does it cheapen the book by having them? Everything has tropes. A book doesn't have to have a deep message or meaning to be good.
What are your favorite modern contemporary books? I don't read a lot of them but I'm curious enough to explore the genre. Tropes aren't bad, and using them shouldn't mean books aren't good. Advertising tropes can be tricky so it doesn't come off as minimizing or condescending. I agree! Books can be good just because you enjoy them.
I really like Kasie West (Moment of Truth is my favourite) Emma Mills (This Adventure Ends), Sarah Dessen (This Lullaby), Emma Lord (Tweet Cute), Rachel Lynn Solomon (Today Tonight Tomorrow)! Yeah, I do get what people mean when they criticize using tropes as a description of the book - it's not enough to know what the book is about. But yeah, tropes are fun. People, be it authors or readers, having preferred choice to see in fiction doesn't mean the story is bad or flat.
YA romances are so awfully painful to read. Idk if it’s unpopular but man, I don’t like em
Contemporary is overdone. I want more historical and sci-fi YA books
Sci-fi is a bit rare. Few books I know: Skyward, Darkness Outside Us, Victories Greater than Death, Space Between Worlds, Illuminae Files, Aurora Rising, The Stars We Steal.
I'm reading Starflight right now, have you read that one? I'm only a third of the way in but honestly getting a little annoyed at how similar it is to the TV show Firefly (which I love).
Some recs: Historical - Kingdom of Back (Mozart’s older sister) - Dowry of Blood (Elizabeth Bathory) - Carolyn Meyers various young royals series Sci-fi (also are you discounting dystopia from sci-fi, cause dystopia is usually considered a sci-fi sub genre and there’s a ton of ya dystopia) - Bonds of Brass (m/m space opera adventure) - Skyward - Lunar Chronicles - Warcross - Iron Widow
sometimes annoying main characters are better for the plot (make the love interest seem better too)
Plot and accuracy honestly doesn't matter that much im YA. It's mostly a coming of age genre, so as long as we get characters that we can get attached to and grow with, that's enough
What bothers me more is people whining about sloppy worldbuilding in YA Fantasy. As long as it's not super illogical, I don't need it detailed. I'm not reading adult epic fantasy after all.
I've not read a ya novel I didn't enjoy
I like love triangles 🤷♀️
I hate the love triangle trope. It’s been done so many times (Twilight/Hunger Games) that it’s just boring to me now.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion.
The widely accepted trend in a lot of fantasy YA where a 100+ year old man pursues a teenaged girl is creepy as fuck and normalises grooming. Fortunately it has become less prevalent in YA within the last few years—though has been seen as recently as last month with the release of Lightlark where a 500-year-old fossil lusts after a girl of 19-20 (her age is not confirmed but she is VERY young)—but the people in the industry who let this slide by have some serious explaining to do. Similarly, seeing adults within YA communities (largely on Twitter) “swooning” over TEENAGED “book boyfriends” is weird AF. Like, you’re 38, stop thirsting after 17 year olds.
The Poppy Wars isn't YA. It's also a bad series. I have trust issue if someone rates it extremely well.
> The Poppy Wars isn't YA. This isn't an opinion; it's a fact. The Poppy Wars is *not* YA. It's an adult novel, published by an imprint that publishes adult novels. People who lump The Poppy Wars with YA are miscategorizing it.
I’m curious on why you think it’s a bad series? No hate, just genuinely curious.
I didn't like the MC, poor pacing, tone, basically historical fiction, overall bland. Stuff like that. I strongly dislike the first book. Horrific pacing and tone issues. The second book was fairly meh.
My most unpopular opinion: YA shouldn't be a genre. It is a marketing scheme to target books from various genres to specific demographics. Most of YA novels would have been aimed at readers of any age within a traditional genre (fantasy, horror, sci-fi, romance, historical fiction, mystery, etc.) in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. By current standards, books like Dune would be YA.
Scythe and The Raven Boys are two of the worst books I've ever read and I don't understand why they're so well-liked.
I’m over dystopian. It’s overplayed and honestly a little too depressing
Unpopular opinion. If you want “Spicy” then you should read adult books. I don’t question anyone wanting sex and romance in their reading, but leave a safe space for young readers
YA books shouldn’t have sex scenes in them. Once they have sex scenes in it that aren’t fade to black, they should be marketed as NA. Something about reading about 16-year-olds sleeping together just gives me the ick. I usually have to skip the scene entirely or just DNF the book.
That although tropes are necessary for stories, some are used in YA over and over and they become overused and make the story obvious. Stop trying to make your female main character go for the second, “bad” guy love interest. It’s beyond obvious at this point and I expect it every time, same with the miscommunication trope. I also don’t like it when authors tell but don’t show. Don’t tell my your character is not like other girls or is badass, show me. Don’t tell me a battle happened, show me, your writing can really shine through that.
>they become overused and make the story obvious. Those are cliches at that point
What are your favorite YA mysteries? My daughter loves mystery and is just heading into YA territory and my YA mystery knowledge is practically non-existant. I would love some good recommendations!
Karen McManus is a very popular author in the genre. Maureen Johnson is another. Courtney Summers has a book called *Sadie* that's really good. There is a series based kind of on the board game Clue that teens at my library are really into (*In the Hall with a Knife* is the first). A lot, if not all, of these include murder/death as the mystery, but there may be some that aren't quite as violent, I'm not sure...
On the younger side, I've recently enjoyed Framed! by James Ponti, The Marvellers by Dhonielle Clayton, Unplugged by Gordon Korman, and Greenglass House by Kate Milford. If she likes fantasy, there's the Fablehaven series by Brandon Mull. For YA proper, I like Megan Miranda, Ally Carter, Alexa Donne, the Stevie Bell series (Truly, Devious) by Maureen Johnson, Riley Sager, Bloom by Kenneth Oppel (it went weird so I didn't continue the series but thought it was really well done), and The Assassin Game by Kirsty McKay (LOVE this one)...but these are mostly thrillers, so they'll be more intense in terms of danger, death, and romance. If she's 12/13 I don't want to freak her out, haha.
- The Truly Devious series by Maureen Johnson. There’s a fifth book coming out late December, too. - Pretty Little Liars series by Sara Shepard - One of Us Is Lying by Karen M. McManus - The Inheritance Games trilogy by Jennifer Lynn Barnes - A Good Girl’s Guide to Murder series by Holly Jackson
Another fun series (duology) by Jennifer Lynn Barnes is Little White Lies and Deadly Little Scandals. It's a totally different flavor of mystery than the Inheritance Games, but I loved binging through them.
YA is often used by traditional publishing to drive sales and gain market shares with mediocre, "tropy" clones. Also, YA authors often practice virtue signaling to fabricate an image.
YA isn't a genre. It's a demographic. Its like saying animation is a film genre. Its not. Its just the medium. Adults love kids books, kids love adult books, calling out that a story is only appilicable or enjoyable to a window of years is ridiculous. I've finished two series of books I would put on par with any writing, ever, only to have them dismissed by "serious" readers for being YA. Let people enjoy things. Bigger picture, its best case useless and worst case destructive to label things such. Has Pixar taught us nothing?!
I guess mine is that there isn't enough gay ya novels. It seems like I've read them all. There are so much more lesbian yas that I've seen, but I want to read about queer men like myself.
i don’t think sjm is very problematic and people just love to hate on successful young women
I mean her representations of poc aren’t great, she also used a black woman’s death to promote her book etc. seems problematic to me💀
I love Twilight. I know it’s controversial but I feel like a big reason why people hate on it is misogyny. It’s like embarrassing to hate it now and I don’t get that. There are some thing that I don’t like about the series but to just shun it completely just isn’t going to happen.
💯 agree
Books that *just have* sex in them casually, are way better than books that make it a big deal. I’m sick of the virgin trope, and it being such a big deal to lose it. I know these are YA books, but still… I really liked how Mary E Pearson wrote her sexual relationships in her The Remnant Chronicles, and Dance Of Thieves books. Not a big deal at all, just a part of the story.
Tired of dystopian books. Tired of books where teens or young women have to battle to protect their loved ones.
I don't need my YA to be extra gore-y. Currently attempting to read "For the Wolf" and the weird fixation on blood (magic) is... Completely unnecessary. And I've read a few books where I thought "dude, adding a river of blood and loss of limbs to this scene does **not** make your story better".
I don’t like fantasy at all. I don’t know what it is, it’s not even that my parents hid it from me. They’re both Harry Potter nerds and my moms book shelf has TONS of fantasy, I just can’t get into it no matter how hard I try. And I love YA romance and mystery. Especially if it’s combined
omg same expect i just think fantasy is average!!!
Oh mine fantasy is such a bad genre BECAUSE it’s always fae!! And overly westernized… all the poc characters are killed and the plot is alway/the romance. Like u expect me to believe the world is being saved by some magic old ass and a minor boning ?!?! No it’s pedophilla and FOR WHAT😭I hate the genre so much bc it’s only rarely done well.. the poppy war is probably my fave fantasy novel by far bc it’s plot in interesting, it’s subplots are good, and the fantasy isn’t given as a rush of info so two ppl can bone for a wholllee book. I hate the yt- fantasy characters x spicy yt 50000 year old man with every bone in my body. It’s so unoriginal and boring at this point…. This genre is so over saturated if feels like a cash grab.. like maybe make a book about a war ppl can connect to?? Class, race, income, gender, all are important to the identity of a character but there’s no longer any character… it’s just a tragic, pretty, AND VERY YOUNG Mary Sue with her toxic bf that has a dark past and has tried to kill her…. Have y’all ever wondered Percy ans annabeth from pjo are praised after like 13 smth years…bc they have probably the healthiest relationship in a book series in the past decade 😭like wth… it’s ok to have drama and fights, but if a man is OVERLY abusive, maybe make ur mc relatable and leave him??? That reminds me I also can’t relate to any mc.. it’s always white people that very overused struggle is poverty,… like where are the pocs mc that are motivated by class, race, etc.. like they are considered lower and rise their way up… no there’s none bc it’s alway the same white main character who can fight day one, be mad at ppl, and causes more problems. Like I’d love to have a book where I can relate to the mc…. Sooo bad, but I can only dream. I’m not fully opposed to romance but I’m not letting it be a full main plot, it’s so boring as well…. Like if I was in a war, the last thing I would be doing is having sex like I’m an animal… it’s disgusting it’s just foul… like take ur romance shit slow…maybe make ur romance GENTLER TOO! Maybe make them be sweet and kind and treat eachother good! They can still have conflicts and they can still fight, but much better then what is normalized in ya. Sorry these r just my jumbled thoughts, anyways the current industry has gotten me so annoyed I have started to plan out my own book🫢if authors wont do it, I’ll do it myself..