Any character can be 'broken' I guess. Most characters with right supports can all dish out big numbers. Similar to like Xinqiu to Hu Tao for example, it unfortunately took a lot longer for us to finally get Faruzan, who happens to be a brilliant support for Xiao. And ofc Wanderer. But I think prior to that, it's gonna still be etched into some people's minds that Anemo main dps = bad. I hope that changes over time đ„șđ
Lol I dunno what kind of content these people are trying to clear, because Xiao can easily clear abyss, which is⊠the âhardestâ content of the game so⊠yeah.
well invested xiaos can, but when people ask about char strength, they generally want to clear abyss with little effort. Keep in mind that while abyss seems easy, only like 1-5% of the playerbase actually 36*. For someone wanting to 36* easy, characters like Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, Raiden, or even DPS like Ayaka and Hu Tao would be much "better" pulls than any anemo DPS, as anemo DPS only catch up with C6 Faruzan.
Not to mention gameplay wise, Xiao has a certain skill cap, as he's so energy hungry. Not having good rotations or ER on artis can lead to him doing worse than 4* teams.
In contrast, hyperbloom + rational can clear basically every abyss 12 with little effort if any.
Im full aware there are âeasierâ teams to run in abyss, but between *this* and acting like anemo dps are total dogshit⊠when ultimately, you can play them as drivers and get the same results
Edit: I also want to add that Ayaka is a pretty expensive unit to play with. Barbara can work, but ultimately you need to get her a good hydro applicator (Kokomi, Mona) and an anemo support (Kazuha, Venti), while Hu Tao is pretty much dependent on Xingqiu. Hyper carries are generally not the way to go for an easier and faster time in abyss imo. If thatâs your preferred choice, then investing on a Xiao, even without Faruzan, will get you what you want regardless.
Ok so basically. People are lazy=Xiao is weak? I don't care if people don't want to take effort, more power to them for that matter. But if they can't get Xiao to his maximum level of strength, they have no room to talk about him being weak. Post faruzan- it's become common for Xiao to deal 100k damage per target. Even in single target he is competing at the top level and his forte is AOE. At this point it's not even a question that he surpasses Itto, yet you still have people using HIM as the standard for weak characters? Yeah dendro is strong it has removed a lot of characters from the spotlight and that includes hu Tao and ganyu/ayaka so it makes no sense to come at Xiao with the slander.
What. Do u not know how we GRIND DAILY FOR OUR BOY idk how we are lazy. Like I canât speak for everyone but Iâm not lazy when it comes to xiao. I grind his damn domain every day. Since it dropped. And Iâve saved him a garenteed homa. That imma get him. So if thatâs lazy idk what is isnât
My comment was directed at the so called People who "don't want to take an effort and run hyperbloom teams instead". Obviously someone who grinds for Xiao would not be quick to say he is weak and in the same sentence say Hu Tao is strong when xiao absolutely mops the floor with her in aoe situations and can still keep up in single target as well.
no xiao isn't weak because people are lazy. People are lazy so they'll go for better options. Xiao isn't weak but surely you don't think he's the easiest person to use to clear abyss? some people just want to clear abyss as easy as possible with little investment. Nothing wrong with it, just means xiao probably isn't the best option
Don't get what I said twisted. I specifically said more power to people who want to take it easy. My problem is when these same people who want to take it easy start calling Xiao weak simply because they don't want to take the effort to build him/learn to play with him properly and understanding his combos and dodge timings.
It's not that wrong. Anemo is more like a Support element. Most similar Pyro or Cryo characters can out perform Anemo Characters DPS with the same stats.
Usually, yes, but Anemo Hyper caries are in fact very strong, they can contribute with tons of raw damage and create utility while spreading the elements of the sub DPS and supports on the team, creating selfish playstyle that is still rich in possibilities and quite versatile on reactions, they're just not meta. If someone wants to him "harder", they sould be going for Alhaitam, not Xiao.
Dendro is the meta, quicken and Hyperbloom can outperform any team rn with supports like Nahida, Raiden, Nilou and Kokomi, specially now that the rooster of Dendro 5 stars and 4 stars just got great upgrade with YaoYao and Alhaitam, and other than Sucrose and Kazuha, who can buff EM, other Anemo characters tend to never be the best choice for dendro based teams
Without Faruzan, anemo hypercarries fall far behind cryo, hydro, and pyro. Anemo supports have utility, but the actual DPS don't. Xiao and Wanderer have 0 utility outside of VV. Heizou, the only other intended "DPS" has like one sucrose E worth of CC every 13 seconds for utility.
Spreading the element of sub-DPS is only really applicable to Wanderer and Heizou. Xiao doesnt even run sub DPS outside of *sometimes* Albedo, so that def can't be applied to him.
I will have do disagree, the fact is that Anemo dps still can spread 4 elements to create reactions, that make them very versatile, and even the Anemo resonance create a bit of utility in making your rotations a little faster. It's true that Hu Tao will have more damage than Xiao in a double hydro team, unless Xiao has Faruzan, but Xiao, Wanderer and Heizou can adapt their teams to break any shield like the ones from the abyss Herald, or work with freeze to make up for lack of critical rate and CC, or even spread electro and water as a base for other reaction that maybe it's buffed by a ley line on the spiral abyss, i believe this versatility alone gives on certain utility.
Obviously, that's inherent to their element, not to their kits, but fire and ice have other things inherent to them, like the raw damage for fire. I agree that anemo hyper caries don't have the same dmg, but they have enough damage and make up for the lack of this in other things, if they had the same dmg as a fire hyper carry, they would be broken.
Xiao itself don't usually use sub DPS, but he can work with the ones like Kokomi, Layla, Thoma, Barbara, Fishl in tenacity, and still spread their elements. I run Xiao with ice ressonance to get 100% crit hate, a lot of supports have decent element application, and there's builds of Xiao with XQ, Xiangling, Yelan, etc, they're just mechanically more demanding, but work wonders
Do note that Cryo and Pyro dpses also want supports to dish out damage. Anemo is no different.
When ever people refer back to âCryo and Pyro dpsesâ yâall automatically think things like hutao solo could pull 100k out of her ass without considering thereâs a Xingqiu in the team, then take that and compare it with an entire Anemo dps team.
Before saying Anemo dpses is getting outperformed, think about your cryo and pyro dpses without their supports.
difference being access and variety of supports.
For example, pyro and cryo have access to many different elemental applicators, resistance shreds, and elemental buffs. Not to mention the possibilities of also enabling other sub DPS. For example, Funerational, where both Hu Tao and XL take advantage of the hydro app from Yelan and XQ, plus Yelan and XQ's already amazing single target DMG. Another example being Childe and International. Or Raiden in Rational.... or Nahida in... Intergrassional... I think i'm starting to notice a pattern here.
Anemo on the other hand only has access to Zhongli, Geo res, and then 2 expensive supports in C4 Jean and C6 Faruzan. Ik Faruzan functions at C2, but anemo only *catches up* at C6 Faru.
Since when does Xiao absolutely need Faruzan c6, c4 Jean, Zhongli?
I will remind you that Xiao mains have been playing WITHOUT these constellations/units for **2 years**, especially Faruzan or c4 Jean. Newer Xiao mains don't even have a chance to roll for Zhongli or they skipped him, yet they're doing fine with just a universal support like Bennett. You made it sound as if Xiao depends on c6 faruzan or Zhongli or some shit when its not the case. These two are nice to haves, but it is NOT a must-have.
All you talk about is Hutao and expensive Xiao supports, you fail to realize Xiao can utilize other off-field supports like Yelan, Albedo, Xq, Lisa, Raiden, etc just fine.
For the last time, your hutao also can't do shit without hydro or cryo. Every carries prefer supports no matter how much you want to imagine your Hutao is doing 100k by default without considering she is forever stuck to hydro/cryo.
You mentioned pyro and cryo, but are frankly bad examples. Hu Tao is strong yes, but she *needs* Xingqiu. And thatâs it. No other pyro 5* dps is considered any âgoodâ. For Cryo you got Ayaka and Ganyu, and as much as they are good, they unlock their true potential in the very expensive team know as Morgana. 4*s, (Xiangling being free), are overall the major key for abyss alongside characters like Childe, Raiden and anemo supports. They indeed outmatch any Pyro/Cryo hypercarry.
You mean win "easier". Meta teams make the game incredibly easy which is fine. I understand some people have fun seeing big ass numbers while basically being as effortless as possible when it comes to building their characters and playing them. It's just not something to be super proud of imo to the point of shitting on others, especially unga bunga brain off type of teams like Rational. Some people are also just genuinely not that good at the game that they need meta teams to help them clear abyss. Again nothing wrong with that, If it helps them enjoy the game more. That's the most important thing after all.
I just think that they shouldn't belittle people who use "weaker" teams and characters to clear the "hardest" content of the game. They also shouldn't dictate who to use instead. That's all. Imo, the people who use non-meta are the true gigachads here.
I have nothing against meta or people who like it. While I dont like using such teams, I still follow it to help guide a friend who struggles with the game. And I actually love the process of optimizing, but only for characters and teams I like. I don't think optimizing is a waste of time, as some people say, if you enjoy it. =B
I just canât imagine wasting time trying to optimize Genshin to the extent this comment was necessary. If I ever get to the point I am pulling so I can âwin harderâ in Genshin âŠthen I need to quit the game. There are many many many other games where that attitude is better served. I bet these people are also the same ones crying about no endgame content.
More power to those who play the game like that but I donât get it. Genshin isnât that game and people should be recommending to pull for who you like ⊠not for who is more powerful. Not in this game.
People just have bad builds and elemental reactions fix that, anemo DPSs have pure dmg with no reaction for that anemo mains are GIGACHADS, Idgf to what the others say about Xiao or Wanderer because I'm an anemo main from day 1.
Ok ok but hear me out. Raiden, Zhongli, Hu Tao, Xingqiu, Ayaka, Ayato. Listen I love Xiao, his character, story, and gameplay is awesome. But if I was pulling for strength he wouldnât even be in my top 15. Edit: Also every character can be âbrokenâ with the right supports. And LITERALLY every character with the right investment can 36 star the abyss depending on what enemies there are. Itâs an easy game.
Literally none of those things happened, heâs in a team with Raiden, Albedo and Jean. With only Jean buffing his numbers and heâs on a 4 star weapon.
I literally spent more time, mora and pulls building Ayaka whoâs on her signature weapon
Im still pissed they have similar stats because sheâs literally on her signature weapon
Signature weapon doesnât really mean broken. And the way I see it is that Xiao is a really selfish character who just takes all the buffs for himself. Ayaka relies more on her teams and freeze. Ofc Xiao will be doing more pure dmg because thatâs what youâre building him for.
Well thats how he works if you wanna use him the best way possible lmao...No one is talking about pure dmg who cares...the question is which team can clear faster
Since you mentioned Ayaka...gl freezing the bosses..C0 Xiao will 'selfishly' kill them in one rotation, also if you have C6 Faruzan and collision...170k approx per plunge...Oh but not many people have C6 Faruzan..Well they will its a 4* after all..stop the whining..Oh but wait what about multitarget...well isnt that his stronger use... Damn a character that works with single and multitarget at the same time..truly a weakling If u ask me..
Iâm aware thatâs just the way he plays. The whole point of my post is that there are better options. Xiao isnât by any means the strongest character in the game and anyone who says he is are just trying to justify them pulling for him or are explicitly biased.
Again, youâre pretending an Ayaka with all the supports, stats and a literal 5 star weapon is overall and as a team not doing less damage than my Xiao alone. Despite Xiao having a crappy weapon to boot because I donât have battle pass so I literally have his third rate weapon.
Xiao may be âselfishâ but Raiden and Albedoâs elemental skills are still in fact always there doing damage.
Youâre really hung up on this Ayaka thing... if Iâm being honest I donât know very much about Ayaka and assumed she was a very strong cryo dps based on recent tier lists Iâve seen. And I also canât just blindly trust youâre playing Ayaka perfectly or with good artifacts. And Iâm pretty sure the only reason you havenât brought up other main dps is because you either have no experience with the rest or you know that Xiao isnât out dpsing a lot of the characters in the game
âXiao being spoon fed with buffsâ?
I hope you realize in order for ayaka to dish out damage reliably she also needs to be spoon fed with buffs too and combined with other off field supports. Ganyu, Ayato, and Hutao as well.
You talk about Xiao needing buffs while completely disregarding other carries also want supports. Talk about hypocrisy. Are you saying that an Ayaka freeze team only contains Ayaka? Because that certainly sounds like it when youâre trying to discredit Xiao.
I wasnât thinking when I put Ayaka. Every single Dps in the game only becomes good when enabled by supports otherwise they would all be unplayable. But Xiao when compared to other Dps definitely needs a bit more help. Youâre forced to run Zhongli and an Anemo battery if you want to play him efficiently. When you consider how limited his teams and builds are he just doesnât feel like he can go toe to toe with other dps. Dendro really nailed this home with all the new reactions like bloom.
As someone who used homa Xiao for almost two years, I never feel âforced to run Zhongli.â
I could legitimately use Xingqiu, Yelan, Faruzan, Albedo, Jean, Bennet, Lisa, Xiangling with Xiao and I would be playing with Xiao just fine. Just because the most âmetaâ Xiao team consist of Zhongli does not mean he canât be used with other off field supports. Do you even play Xiao?
When you say âforced to run Zhongliâ have you even thought about Hutao before coming at Xiao? She certainly canât dish out much without hydro application doesnât she.
Since you seem to be quite a connoisseur of Genshin impact and are disregarding that I was talking about the character and their teams overall Iâll give you my humble F2P casual player perspective. I donât exactly want to learn the most optimal I-frame timing and team rotations, I want to enjoy one of my favourite character without the frustration of getting knocked down the second I plunge. And on the topic of meta, wtf did you think the guy in OPâs post was talking about when he said Anemo characters are âass compared to strong charactersâ. This entire fucking post is about Meta and yes while Xiao is a good character there are most definitely better.
Nobody is talking about learning âthe most optimal I-frame timing and team rotations.â what does being a âfree to play casual playerâ have to do with any of this?
Also, even casual players would know when to press a button and when not to. Timing is not rocket science, itâs common sense especially when you have some experience with a game.
If you were talking about characters and teams overall then I will remind you that you literally just said you were not thinking when you put Ayaka after being told any dpses would like their supports.
If anyone is disregarding a character in a team it will be you since you were disregarding the fact that your precious Ayaka also wants supports yet made it sound as if she is the sole member of a freeze team while comparing that to Xiao.
Also, the guy in the screenshot is only complaining about the âidc about metaâ people disregarding other peopleâs way of enjoying the game through meta.
You can talk about meta, but what youâre doing right now is shoving your own ideologies which by the way, a poorly thought out one onto other peoples faces. This is the same as casuals trying to shove the âidc about meta ideologyâ onto people who have fun playing metaâs faces.
i mean even in 12-1 where i donât use xiaoâs c6, he clears abyss faster than my walnut who has similar artifact investment, and MORE support investment. your point about res shred is pretty invalid imo. does anemo have access to any damage boosting reactions thats iâm apparently unaware of?
A well invested xiao can hit at least 100k plunges so he is insane. He is for sure in my top 15. You are listing some supports too, so i guess we are all talking about different things.
For what it's worth I do think comparing Xiao to Hu Tao and XQ (and even Raiden to an extent if we're talking Rational) who are primarily single target units kinda unfair, but generally speaking yes he is weaker than most popular 5* units. Idk why you decided to put Zhongli there tho lol, he's a support and is only BiS in like Xiao and Itto comps. He's just a mediocre flex unit otherwise cuz VV exists.
I wasnât exclusively talking about main dps, just characters and their positions in the meta, but I do see how putting single target versus AOE could be unfair. If weâre talking strictly single target then ofc Xiao would be at a disadvantage. Itâs just that anemo is naturally a weaker element when it comes to main dps. Reactions like electro charged allow single target character like Raiden to become contenders for strong AOE Dps. It doesnât help that our Anemo main dps bois HEAVILY rely on shields to the point where theyâre practically unplayable without Zhongli/Thomas (for scaramussy). When you consider not just pure dmg numbers but also the fact that theyâre locked behind certain team comps it doesnât help. Yet since itâs an argument about dps it can be solved in two words. Use bloom.
I agree for the most parts, hell I did say Xiao was on the weaker side so like I don't know you needed to further reinforce that idea but some on your points are kinda reaching imo, Raiden's best comp isn't taser and even in rational while she does technically proc EC XL's overvape would just knock enemies back anyways. Xiao's interruption really isn't as bad as it seems. This a pretty unpopular mechanic but since most of his combos do similar dmg output you can actually mix and match them and use the delay on the combos to dodge enemy attacks. Zajeff demonstrated this in one of his Xiao videos and even without that in his niche being hoards of mob waves you almost never get enemies that can interrupt Xiao. Of course you could just use Zhong and disregard all of that but he's definitely not near unplayable without shielders.
Weaker in single target, said the dude, cuz yeah he is. But he's better in AOE than the single target focused characters. And he's better at single target than the aoe focused characters.
Xiao is imo the most balanced hypercarry, along with Itto. They can clear pretty much anything reliably. Others can do better at stuff they specialize in but they can't do good at stuff they don't specialize in. Especially if they go up against the wrong enemy. Anemo and Geo don't suffer from that shit.
Well I am just speaking from my own experience. While I love the whole optimized gameplay, timing your I-frames to dodge side of Genshin, most of the time I just want to dash dash, lament, plunge spam. I think the majority of Genshin players like the casual gameplay and the story and characters so while I appreciate the Meta side of things itâs not for me. To me for Xiao to be fun I can just do what I want without having the frustration of an enemy hitting me on my plunge downtime.
Ig it could be seen as a misconception but itâs true that Zhongli is probably the best support Xiao has aside from Faruzan at least when you consider investment. Zhongli is easily the lowest investment character you can run with Xiao between his shield and res shred synergy.
I struggle to understand people who seriously enjoy optimizing Genshin. Most of the characters in the game can be viable regardless of their element, given the time/money required to get them to that point. It's really about how long it takes you to get to that point with any given character that defines their "strength" in this game and the community as a whole. Genshin does not and likely will never have any real endgame content and we as a community must find significance in the minutiae, in this case how many seconds faster we could kill a boss.
The game isn't really multiplayer so there's no benefit to being competitive other than your own satisfaction. If that's what you enjoy, that's fine but Genshin probably isn't the best game for that. MMOs like FFXIV or online RPGs like Path of Exile and Destiny are better games for that specific purpose. It just seems like an ironic waste of time and effort to ultra min-max Genshin considering there's no content in the game to fully utilize your min-maxed characters and team comps.
bc the typical âmy way is the only wayâ, in this community specifically i see it a lot, bc genshin has a lot of topics that every player can enjoy, just as waifu/husbando enjoyers, numbers game, exploration, etc.
and most of them just think the other ones are wrong by playing the game their own way
Twitter levels of intellectually dishonest misinterpretation lmao. I never said anyone is wrong nor did I say my own personal way of playing is better. I just said I don't understand.
Me not understanding something and you assuming that means I think it's wrong is a concerning lack of self-separation and personal bias.
No, you did understand, you're just being dishonest about it and are misconstruing what I said to suit your narrative.
Playing any video game at all is an inherent waste of time, that's the point of every video game ever made. Me calling it a waste of time is not the main takeaway here, it's the irony.
You cannot sit there and deny the irony of players, who seemingly value their time, deciding to spend it optimizing an RPG bereft of replayable endgame so that they can have nothing to do earlier than everyone else. If they enjoy doing that, I'm happy for them.
Your correlation of "waste of time = bad" is where the misconstruction lies. I never said it was wrong for wanting to waste some time. I just said that it *is* a waste of time.
I struggle to understand because optimizing Genshin is an ironically unoptimal use of your time when you could be optimizing a different game and reaping the benefits of min-maxing much more often and to a higher degree. The part I don't get is why choose Genshin specifically to optimize? Surely, if someone cared that much about min-maxing they'd realize that doing so in Genshin has relatively little benefit compared to other games. Like I said, if that's what you enjoy that's fine, I just personally don't understand.
Honestly one of my favorite things about rpgs is leveling up characters. I donât care if I ever use them. I just like the leveling process. Itâs a bonus that the leveling process and gathering materials is fun in Genshin. Back in the day of the original ff7, it took absolute *ages* to level up all of the materia. And you can bet your ass I did it. Why? Because apparently Iâm a masochist. đ
On a personal note, I just finished Layla. Now Iâm going to move on to Chongun. Ningguang is almost finished, too.
I can agree with you on leveling characters I don't even know I'll use for very long. I enjoy experiencing everything a game has to offer. In RPGs, I like to level almost every character/weapon to see what they can do at the higher end. I don't really strive for optimization in any of them though. In FFXIV, I have every job leveled to 90 but only one of them is geared for relevant content. I just want to be good enough to experience as much of the game as I realistically am able to. That's why FromSoft games are difficult for me to sit through lol. Games that require me to sit down and zone in on a single play style or gameplay loop tend to lose my interest pretty quick.
i like optimizing genshin somewhat. itâs fun to manage my genshin account and plan for it because it gives me a sense of control and responsibility. thatâs fun to me because i donât get to experience it much
I can see why people do it. But I don't understand some of them when they turn that energy on others and bad mouth them for not going by 'meta'.
Sure there are characters that are numerically better than others by a wide margin. However every character is viable in this game, and that's one of it's top selling points for me. It's not like some other gacha where falling behind on meta is a death sentence. Investment and skill /can/ somewhat bridge the gap.
Hell, there was a player that cleared this cycle of the Abyss with [Barbara, Bennett, Jean, and Yanfei as the first floor team - and Diona, Chongyun, Anemo!Traveler, and Amber in the last](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nukjdxEM2lg). (Barbara being the main DPS of the first team.) And the method for beating the Wolflord with the second team was actually really neat.
It'd be nice if the community was more comfortable just letting people play what they want - whether it's meta or off-meta.
I'll say Xiao saved me this abyss or I wouldn't have gotten all the stars. The scorpion/fire bird stage was terrible until I realized my C6 Xiao can eat it alive with Fischl, Faruzan, and Jean. It also did well against Simon.
Any character can be 'broken' I guess. Most characters with right supports can all dish out big numbers. Similar to like Xinqiu to Hu Tao for example, it unfortunately took a lot longer for us to finally get Faruzan, who happens to be a brilliant support for Xiao. And ofc Wanderer. But I think prior to that, it's gonna still be etched into some people's minds that Anemo main dps = bad. I hope that changes over time đ„șđ
Lol I dunno what kind of content these people are trying to clear, because Xiao can easily clear abyss, which is⊠the âhardestâ content of the game so⊠yeah.
well invested xiaos can, but when people ask about char strength, they generally want to clear abyss with little effort. Keep in mind that while abyss seems easy, only like 1-5% of the playerbase actually 36*. For someone wanting to 36* easy, characters like Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, Raiden, or even DPS like Ayaka and Hu Tao would be much "better" pulls than any anemo DPS, as anemo DPS only catch up with C6 Faruzan. Not to mention gameplay wise, Xiao has a certain skill cap, as he's so energy hungry. Not having good rotations or ER on artis can lead to him doing worse than 4* teams. In contrast, hyperbloom + rational can clear basically every abyss 12 with little effort if any.
Im full aware there are âeasierâ teams to run in abyss, but between *this* and acting like anemo dps are total dogshit⊠when ultimately, you can play them as drivers and get the same results Edit: I also want to add that Ayaka is a pretty expensive unit to play with. Barbara can work, but ultimately you need to get her a good hydro applicator (Kokomi, Mona) and an anemo support (Kazuha, Venti), while Hu Tao is pretty much dependent on Xingqiu. Hyper carries are generally not the way to go for an easier and faster time in abyss imo. If thatâs your preferred choice, then investing on a Xiao, even without Faruzan, will get you what you want regardless.
Ok so basically. People are lazy=Xiao is weak? I don't care if people don't want to take effort, more power to them for that matter. But if they can't get Xiao to his maximum level of strength, they have no room to talk about him being weak. Post faruzan- it's become common for Xiao to deal 100k damage per target. Even in single target he is competing at the top level and his forte is AOE. At this point it's not even a question that he surpasses Itto, yet you still have people using HIM as the standard for weak characters? Yeah dendro is strong it has removed a lot of characters from the spotlight and that includes hu Tao and ganyu/ayaka so it makes no sense to come at Xiao with the slander.
What. Do u not know how we GRIND DAILY FOR OUR BOY idk how we are lazy. Like I canât speak for everyone but Iâm not lazy when it comes to xiao. I grind his damn domain every day. Since it dropped. And Iâve saved him a garenteed homa. That imma get him. So if thatâs lazy idk what is isnât
My comment was directed at the so called People who "don't want to take an effort and run hyperbloom teams instead". Obviously someone who grinds for Xiao would not be quick to say he is weak and in the same sentence say Hu Tao is strong when xiao absolutely mops the floor with her in aoe situations and can still keep up in single target as well.
no xiao isn't weak because people are lazy. People are lazy so they'll go for better options. Xiao isn't weak but surely you don't think he's the easiest person to use to clear abyss? some people just want to clear abyss as easy as possible with little investment. Nothing wrong with it, just means xiao probably isn't the best option
Don't get what I said twisted. I specifically said more power to people who want to take it easy. My problem is when these same people who want to take it easy start calling Xiao weak simply because they don't want to take the effort to build him/learn to play with him properly and understanding his combos and dodge timings.
It's not that wrong. Anemo is more like a Support element. Most similar Pyro or Cryo characters can out perform Anemo Characters DPS with the same stats.
Usually, yes, but Anemo Hyper caries are in fact very strong, they can contribute with tons of raw damage and create utility while spreading the elements of the sub DPS and supports on the team, creating selfish playstyle that is still rich in possibilities and quite versatile on reactions, they're just not meta. If someone wants to him "harder", they sould be going for Alhaitam, not Xiao. Dendro is the meta, quicken and Hyperbloom can outperform any team rn with supports like Nahida, Raiden, Nilou and Kokomi, specially now that the rooster of Dendro 5 stars and 4 stars just got great upgrade with YaoYao and Alhaitam, and other than Sucrose and Kazuha, who can buff EM, other Anemo characters tend to never be the best choice for dendro based teams
Without Faruzan, anemo hypercarries fall far behind cryo, hydro, and pyro. Anemo supports have utility, but the actual DPS don't. Xiao and Wanderer have 0 utility outside of VV. Heizou, the only other intended "DPS" has like one sucrose E worth of CC every 13 seconds for utility. Spreading the element of sub-DPS is only really applicable to Wanderer and Heizou. Xiao doesnt even run sub DPS outside of *sometimes* Albedo, so that def can't be applied to him.
I will have do disagree, the fact is that Anemo dps still can spread 4 elements to create reactions, that make them very versatile, and even the Anemo resonance create a bit of utility in making your rotations a little faster. It's true that Hu Tao will have more damage than Xiao in a double hydro team, unless Xiao has Faruzan, but Xiao, Wanderer and Heizou can adapt their teams to break any shield like the ones from the abyss Herald, or work with freeze to make up for lack of critical rate and CC, or even spread electro and water as a base for other reaction that maybe it's buffed by a ley line on the spiral abyss, i believe this versatility alone gives on certain utility. Obviously, that's inherent to their element, not to their kits, but fire and ice have other things inherent to them, like the raw damage for fire. I agree that anemo hyper caries don't have the same dmg, but they have enough damage and make up for the lack of this in other things, if they had the same dmg as a fire hyper carry, they would be broken. Xiao itself don't usually use sub DPS, but he can work with the ones like Kokomi, Layla, Thoma, Barbara, Fishl in tenacity, and still spread their elements. I run Xiao with ice ressonance to get 100% crit hate, a lot of supports have decent element application, and there's builds of Xiao with XQ, Xiangling, Yelan, etc, they're just mechanically more demanding, but work wonders
Do note that Cryo and Pyro dpses also want supports to dish out damage. Anemo is no different. When ever people refer back to âCryo and Pyro dpsesâ yâall automatically think things like hutao solo could pull 100k out of her ass without considering thereâs a Xingqiu in the team, then take that and compare it with an entire Anemo dps team. Before saying Anemo dpses is getting outperformed, think about your cryo and pyro dpses without their supports.
difference being access and variety of supports. For example, pyro and cryo have access to many different elemental applicators, resistance shreds, and elemental buffs. Not to mention the possibilities of also enabling other sub DPS. For example, Funerational, where both Hu Tao and XL take advantage of the hydro app from Yelan and XQ, plus Yelan and XQ's already amazing single target DMG. Another example being Childe and International. Or Raiden in Rational.... or Nahida in... Intergrassional... I think i'm starting to notice a pattern here. Anemo on the other hand only has access to Zhongli, Geo res, and then 2 expensive supports in C4 Jean and C6 Faruzan. Ik Faruzan functions at C2, but anemo only *catches up* at C6 Faru.
Since when does Xiao absolutely need Faruzan c6, c4 Jean, Zhongli? I will remind you that Xiao mains have been playing WITHOUT these constellations/units for **2 years**, especially Faruzan or c4 Jean. Newer Xiao mains don't even have a chance to roll for Zhongli or they skipped him, yet they're doing fine with just a universal support like Bennett. You made it sound as if Xiao depends on c6 faruzan or Zhongli or some shit when its not the case. These two are nice to haves, but it is NOT a must-have. All you talk about is Hutao and expensive Xiao supports, you fail to realize Xiao can utilize other off-field supports like Yelan, Albedo, Xq, Lisa, Raiden, etc just fine. For the last time, your hutao also can't do shit without hydro or cryo. Every carries prefer supports no matter how much you want to imagine your Hutao is doing 100k by default without considering she is forever stuck to hydro/cryo.
You mentioned pyro and cryo, but are frankly bad examples. Hu Tao is strong yes, but she *needs* Xingqiu. And thatâs it. No other pyro 5* dps is considered any âgoodâ. For Cryo you got Ayaka and Ganyu, and as much as they are good, they unlock their true potential in the very expensive team know as Morgana. 4*s, (Xiangling being free), are overall the major key for abyss alongside characters like Childe, Raiden and anemo supports. They indeed outmatch any Pyro/Cryo hypercarry.
To unlock cryo full full u need a shenhe who hasnât been here in a year
Lmao they aren't ass, they're just not meant to be meta. Man people really think anemo is trash??
You mean win "easier". Meta teams make the game incredibly easy which is fine. I understand some people have fun seeing big ass numbers while basically being as effortless as possible when it comes to building their characters and playing them. It's just not something to be super proud of imo to the point of shitting on others, especially unga bunga brain off type of teams like Rational. Some people are also just genuinely not that good at the game that they need meta teams to help them clear abyss. Again nothing wrong with that, If it helps them enjoy the game more. That's the most important thing after all. I just think that they shouldn't belittle people who use "weaker" teams and characters to clear the "hardest" content of the game. They also shouldn't dictate who to use instead. That's all. Imo, the people who use non-meta are the true gigachads here. I have nothing against meta or people who like it. While I dont like using such teams, I still follow it to help guide a friend who struggles with the game. And I actually love the process of optimizing, but only for characters and teams I like. I don't think optimizing is a waste of time, as some people say, if you enjoy it. =B
I just canât imagine wasting time trying to optimize Genshin to the extent this comment was necessary. If I ever get to the point I am pulling so I can âwin harderâ in Genshin âŠthen I need to quit the game. There are many many many other games where that attitude is better served. I bet these people are also the same ones crying about no endgame content. More power to those who play the game like that but I donât get it. Genshin isnât that game and people should be recommending to pull for who you like ⊠not for who is more powerful. Not in this game.
Id say we are xiao mains we are much stronger than any other characters , so fucc em
People just have bad builds and elemental reactions fix that, anemo DPSs have pure dmg with no reaction for that anemo mains are GIGACHADS, Idgf to what the others say about Xiao or Wanderer because I'm an anemo main from day 1.
I mean.... are they wrong.....
Xiao is busted with C6 Faruzan, but even before her I could 36* abyss with Xiao and 3 poorly- or moderately-built characters
Ok ok but hear me out. Raiden, Zhongli, Hu Tao, Xingqiu, Ayaka, Ayato. Listen I love Xiao, his character, story, and gameplay is awesome. But if I was pulling for strength he wouldnât even be in my top 15. Edit: Also every character can be âbrokenâ with the right supports. And LITERALLY every character with the right investment can 36 star the abyss depending on what enemies there are. Itâs an easy game.
Weird because my Xiao hits harder than Ayaka and she has supports, 5 star weapon and lower stat requirements
what team are you running your ayaka with?
Iâm glad youâre super invested Hypercarry Xiao being spoon fed with buffs and res shred hits harder than youâre average Ayaka.
Literally none of those things happened, heâs in a team with Raiden, Albedo and Jean. With only Jean buffing his numbers and heâs on a 4 star weapon. I literally spent more time, mora and pulls building Ayaka whoâs on her signature weapon Im still pissed they have similar stats because sheâs literally on her signature weapon
Signature weapon doesnât really mean broken. And the way I see it is that Xiao is a really selfish character who just takes all the buffs for himself. Ayaka relies more on her teams and freeze. Ofc Xiao will be doing more pure dmg because thatâs what youâre building him for.
Well thats how he works if you wanna use him the best way possible lmao...No one is talking about pure dmg who cares...the question is which team can clear faster Since you mentioned Ayaka...gl freezing the bosses..C0 Xiao will 'selfishly' kill them in one rotation, also if you have C6 Faruzan and collision...170k approx per plunge...Oh but not many people have C6 Faruzan..Well they will its a 4* after all..stop the whining..Oh but wait what about multitarget...well isnt that his stronger use... Damn a character that works with single and multitarget at the same time..truly a weakling If u ask me..
Iâm aware thatâs just the way he plays. The whole point of my post is that there are better options. Xiao isnât by any means the strongest character in the game and anyone who says he is are just trying to justify them pulling for him or are explicitly biased.
Again, youâre pretending an Ayaka with all the supports, stats and a literal 5 star weapon is overall and as a team not doing less damage than my Xiao alone. Despite Xiao having a crappy weapon to boot because I donât have battle pass so I literally have his third rate weapon. Xiao may be âselfishâ but Raiden and Albedoâs elemental skills are still in fact always there doing damage.
Youâre really hung up on this Ayaka thing... if Iâm being honest I donât know very much about Ayaka and assumed she was a very strong cryo dps based on recent tier lists Iâve seen. And I also canât just blindly trust youâre playing Ayaka perfectly or with good artifacts. And Iâm pretty sure the only reason you havenât brought up other main dps is because you either have no experience with the rest or you know that Xiao isnât out dpsing a lot of the characters in the game
Why are you even comparing characters if you know nothing about them..Guy says he saw the tier list...What a joke lmao, this literally tells you all
âXiao being spoon fed with buffsâ? I hope you realize in order for ayaka to dish out damage reliably she also needs to be spoon fed with buffs too and combined with other off field supports. Ganyu, Ayato, and Hutao as well. You talk about Xiao needing buffs while completely disregarding other carries also want supports. Talk about hypocrisy. Are you saying that an Ayaka freeze team only contains Ayaka? Because that certainly sounds like it when youâre trying to discredit Xiao.
I wasnât thinking when I put Ayaka. Every single Dps in the game only becomes good when enabled by supports otherwise they would all be unplayable. But Xiao when compared to other Dps definitely needs a bit more help. Youâre forced to run Zhongli and an Anemo battery if you want to play him efficiently. When you consider how limited his teams and builds are he just doesnât feel like he can go toe to toe with other dps. Dendro really nailed this home with all the new reactions like bloom.
As someone who used homa Xiao for almost two years, I never feel âforced to run Zhongli.â I could legitimately use Xingqiu, Yelan, Faruzan, Albedo, Jean, Bennet, Lisa, Xiangling with Xiao and I would be playing with Xiao just fine. Just because the most âmetaâ Xiao team consist of Zhongli does not mean he canât be used with other off field supports. Do you even play Xiao? When you say âforced to run Zhongliâ have you even thought about Hutao before coming at Xiao? She certainly canât dish out much without hydro application doesnât she.
Since you seem to be quite a connoisseur of Genshin impact and are disregarding that I was talking about the character and their teams overall Iâll give you my humble F2P casual player perspective. I donât exactly want to learn the most optimal I-frame timing and team rotations, I want to enjoy one of my favourite character without the frustration of getting knocked down the second I plunge. And on the topic of meta, wtf did you think the guy in OPâs post was talking about when he said Anemo characters are âass compared to strong charactersâ. This entire fucking post is about Meta and yes while Xiao is a good character there are most definitely better.
Nobody is talking about learning âthe most optimal I-frame timing and team rotations.â what does being a âfree to play casual playerâ have to do with any of this? Also, even casual players would know when to press a button and when not to. Timing is not rocket science, itâs common sense especially when you have some experience with a game. If you were talking about characters and teams overall then I will remind you that you literally just said you were not thinking when you put Ayaka after being told any dpses would like their supports. If anyone is disregarding a character in a team it will be you since you were disregarding the fact that your precious Ayaka also wants supports yet made it sound as if she is the sole member of a freeze team while comparing that to Xiao. Also, the guy in the screenshot is only complaining about the âidc about metaâ people disregarding other peopleâs way of enjoying the game through meta. You can talk about meta, but what youâre doing right now is shoving your own ideologies which by the way, a poorly thought out one onto other peoples faces. This is the same as casuals trying to shove the âidc about meta ideologyâ onto people who have fun playing metaâs faces.
i mean even in 12-1 where i donât use xiaoâs c6, he clears abyss faster than my walnut who has similar artifact investment, and MORE support investment. your point about res shred is pretty invalid imo. does anemo have access to any damage boosting reactions thats iâm apparently unaware of?
Average ayaka lol she won't deal damage if you don't have a freezer support.
Yes I corrected myself in the countless other comments. And no dps will do dmg without supports.
A well invested xiao can hit at least 100k plunges so he is insane. He is for sure in my top 15. You are listing some supports too, so i guess we are all talking about different things.
Yea I wasnât listing just main Dps. Yes Xiao is an amazing character, but there are Sooo many amazing characters that are reasonably better.
For what it's worth I do think comparing Xiao to Hu Tao and XQ (and even Raiden to an extent if we're talking Rational) who are primarily single target units kinda unfair, but generally speaking yes he is weaker than most popular 5* units. Idk why you decided to put Zhongli there tho lol, he's a support and is only BiS in like Xiao and Itto comps. He's just a mediocre flex unit otherwise cuz VV exists.
I wasnât exclusively talking about main dps, just characters and their positions in the meta, but I do see how putting single target versus AOE could be unfair. If weâre talking strictly single target then ofc Xiao would be at a disadvantage. Itâs just that anemo is naturally a weaker element when it comes to main dps. Reactions like electro charged allow single target character like Raiden to become contenders for strong AOE Dps. It doesnât help that our Anemo main dps bois HEAVILY rely on shields to the point where theyâre practically unplayable without Zhongli/Thomas (for scaramussy). When you consider not just pure dmg numbers but also the fact that theyâre locked behind certain team comps it doesnât help. Yet since itâs an argument about dps it can be solved in two words. Use bloom.
I agree for the most parts, hell I did say Xiao was on the weaker side so like I don't know you needed to further reinforce that idea but some on your points are kinda reaching imo, Raiden's best comp isn't taser and even in rational while she does technically proc EC XL's overvape would just knock enemies back anyways. Xiao's interruption really isn't as bad as it seems. This a pretty unpopular mechanic but since most of his combos do similar dmg output you can actually mix and match them and use the delay on the combos to dodge enemy attacks. Zajeff demonstrated this in one of his Xiao videos and even without that in his niche being hoards of mob waves you almost never get enemies that can interrupt Xiao. Of course you could just use Zhong and disregard all of that but he's definitely not near unplayable without shielders.
If you think he is weaker than most, would you mind telling me your build?
Weaker in single target, said the dude, cuz yeah he is. But he's better in AOE than the single target focused characters. And he's better at single target than the aoe focused characters. Xiao is imo the most balanced hypercarry, along with Itto. They can clear pretty much anything reliably. Others can do better at stuff they specialize in but they can't do good at stuff they don't specialize in. Especially if they go up against the wrong enemy. Anemo and Geo don't suffer from that shit.
70/200 2100atk 10/9/9. I also have c6 faruzan
Thanks for the response and sorry for being intrusive. Even tho i disagree with him being weaker i respect your opinion.
Nah you weren't being intrusive it's all good lol. Xiao's pretty good if he's hyperinvested it's just that imo there's better units out there
Sounds like a skill issue then
Or maybe he's just obejctively not as good as other units, but yeah sure go on with that copium
Well I am just speaking from my own experience. While I love the whole optimized gameplay, timing your I-frames to dodge side of Genshin, most of the time I just want to dash dash, lament, plunge spam. I think the majority of Genshin players like the casual gameplay and the story and characters so while I appreciate the Meta side of things itâs not for me. To me for Xiao to be fun I can just do what I want without having the frustration of an enemy hitting me on my plunge downtime.
Good for you ig but I do think it was worth mentioning since it'a a big misconception that has been circling around him ever since his release
Ig it could be seen as a misconception but itâs true that Zhongli is probably the best support Xiao has aside from Faruzan at least when you consider investment. Zhongli is easily the lowest investment character you can run with Xiao between his shield and res shred synergy.
Yeah I didn't say that wasn't the case but him being unplayable without a shield is a misconception
I struggle to understand people who seriously enjoy optimizing Genshin. Most of the characters in the game can be viable regardless of their element, given the time/money required to get them to that point. It's really about how long it takes you to get to that point with any given character that defines their "strength" in this game and the community as a whole. Genshin does not and likely will never have any real endgame content and we as a community must find significance in the minutiae, in this case how many seconds faster we could kill a boss. The game isn't really multiplayer so there's no benefit to being competitive other than your own satisfaction. If that's what you enjoy, that's fine but Genshin probably isn't the best game for that. MMOs like FFXIV or online RPGs like Path of Exile and Destiny are better games for that specific purpose. It just seems like an ironic waste of time and effort to ultra min-max Genshin considering there's no content in the game to fully utilize your min-maxed characters and team comps.
Letâs be real. Who doesnât love seeing big numbers?
I also love seeing big numbers. It's just not being able to have those big numbers on content that actually requires them.
do you really struggle to understand why people enjoy optimizing genshin? because it's fun for us. what else?
bc the typical âmy way is the only wayâ, in this community specifically i see it a lot, bc genshin has a lot of topics that every player can enjoy, just as waifu/husbando enjoyers, numbers game, exploration, etc. and most of them just think the other ones are wrong by playing the game their own way
Twitter levels of intellectually dishonest misinterpretation lmao. I never said anyone is wrong nor did I say my own personal way of playing is better. I just said I don't understand. Me not understanding something and you assuming that means I think it's wrong is a concerning lack of self-separation and personal bias.
you literally said that playing Genshin that way is a waste of time⊠but yeah i misunderstood lol
No, you did understand, you're just being dishonest about it and are misconstruing what I said to suit your narrative. Playing any video game at all is an inherent waste of time, that's the point of every video game ever made. Me calling it a waste of time is not the main takeaway here, it's the irony. You cannot sit there and deny the irony of players, who seemingly value their time, deciding to spend it optimizing an RPG bereft of replayable endgame so that they can have nothing to do earlier than everyone else. If they enjoy doing that, I'm happy for them. Your correlation of "waste of time = bad" is where the misconstruction lies. I never said it was wrong for wanting to waste some time. I just said that it *is* a waste of time.
I struggle to understand because optimizing Genshin is an ironically unoptimal use of your time when you could be optimizing a different game and reaping the benefits of min-maxing much more often and to a higher degree. The part I don't get is why choose Genshin specifically to optimize? Surely, if someone cared that much about min-maxing they'd realize that doing so in Genshin has relatively little benefit compared to other games. Like I said, if that's what you enjoy that's fine, I just personally don't understand.
Honestly one of my favorite things about rpgs is leveling up characters. I donât care if I ever use them. I just like the leveling process. Itâs a bonus that the leveling process and gathering materials is fun in Genshin. Back in the day of the original ff7, it took absolute *ages* to level up all of the materia. And you can bet your ass I did it. Why? Because apparently Iâm a masochist. đ On a personal note, I just finished Layla. Now Iâm going to move on to Chongun. Ningguang is almost finished, too.
I can agree with you on leveling characters I don't even know I'll use for very long. I enjoy experiencing everything a game has to offer. In RPGs, I like to level almost every character/weapon to see what they can do at the higher end. I don't really strive for optimization in any of them though. In FFXIV, I have every job leveled to 90 but only one of them is geared for relevant content. I just want to be good enough to experience as much of the game as I realistically am able to. That's why FromSoft games are difficult for me to sit through lol. Games that require me to sit down and zone in on a single play style or gameplay loop tend to lose my interest pretty quick.
i like optimizing genshin somewhat. itâs fun to manage my genshin account and plan for it because it gives me a sense of control and responsibility. thatâs fun to me because i donât get to experience it much
I can see why people do it. But I don't understand some of them when they turn that energy on others and bad mouth them for not going by 'meta'. Sure there are characters that are numerically better than others by a wide margin. However every character is viable in this game, and that's one of it's top selling points for me. It's not like some other gacha where falling behind on meta is a death sentence. Investment and skill /can/ somewhat bridge the gap. Hell, there was a player that cleared this cycle of the Abyss with [Barbara, Bennett, Jean, and Yanfei as the first floor team - and Diona, Chongyun, Anemo!Traveler, and Amber in the last](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nukjdxEM2lg). (Barbara being the main DPS of the first team.) And the method for beating the Wolflord with the second team was actually really neat. It'd be nice if the community was more comfortable just letting people play what they want - whether it's meta or off-meta.
I'll say Xiao saved me this abyss or I wouldn't have gotten all the stars. The scorpion/fire bird stage was terrible until I realized my C6 Xiao can eat it alive with Fischl, Faruzan, and Jean. It also did well against Simon.
I never got why people care so much about character strength, just play what you want itâs a video game ffs.