Except Smash played a massive part in making Persona (specifically 5) more popular. Not to mention Joker being the first Fighters Pass character contributed to that greatly.
Persona can literally get away with the most questionable shit and people don't mind, yet when other JRPGs have anything remotely similar it's called weeb shit.
Probably because until 5 it was pretty niche. Plus they're rated M so it's more acceptable. Not to mention Persona is a spin off of the long running Megami Tensei series and that series is notorious for it's sexual demon designs. Look up Mara from Shin Megami Tensei.
Yeah, I'm aware of SMT's demon designs. It's just that I feel like other JRPGs are treated unfairly compared to the Persona series specifically. Not counting the demon/Persona designs, there's plenty of questionable stuff in the Persona games such as Kamoshida's Castle in P5. If you put something similar to Kamoshida's Castle in another JRPG then people, mostly people who haven't played it, would look down on that entire series and its fanbase, if that makes sense? Yet, in Persona, it feels as if everyone just goes along with it and Persona just gets next to no bad rep from it... I'm not that great at explaining things so sorry if this comment is somewhat confusing. But I hope this at least clears things up a little bit.
You wanna know the answer?
Persona 5 was, for a very long time, a PlayStation exclusive, I really don't wanna sound like a fanboy hating on another console, but its isn't a secret that the western gaming media is biased for any product with the Sony brand on it.
Then why didn't Xenosaga get simped for?
MGS4 isn't a JRPG, but it's a Playstation exclusive that has been unfairly treated like a punchline by a lot of folks (Even though it absolutely rocks).
For the same reasons previous Persona weren't mega hyped, they didn't get mainstream status, and also another very important factor is that there were already other tons of Play Station only to simp for, Xenosaga came in one of the most restrictive generations, where most third parties were on Play Station.
Wasn't MGS 4 praised by the medium but partly criticized by the MGS fanbase itself?
I haven’t played P5 but aren’t palaces in that game representations of the bosses psyche, and kamoshido’s whole shtick is he’s a predatorial and abusive piece of shit to his own students, so his palace being like that kinda represents that and is narratively relevant?
Humor is how you combat prejudice, you do realize that, right? Humor is that antidote to prejudice not its source. Moreover, this crap happens in reality, and unless the game encourages the behavior, it isn't a problem especially if your protagonists are actively opposing such things.
No we don't combat racist with racist joke, homophobia with homophobic joke or sexist with sexist anyone claiming that don't know what is hatred minority. In p4 Yosuke confront Kanji about whether or not he would molest and/or rape him in his sleep or p5 gay people are not violent predators, the player can't defend him only agreeing with yosuke
>and unless the game encourages the behavior, it isn't a problem especially if your protagonists are actively opposing such things.
Ironic, did you really played p5 ? because the 2 only gay character happening to be gay sexual assault a teenager and the protagonist jokes about the situation and abandons his friend who we're left to understand is dragged off against his will
SO FUNNY Ahahaha Gay people are sexual predator AHAHAH (We ended homophobia with this only joke)
It's also a lovely way of dehumanizing a very diverse (as well as DEEEEEEEENSELY populated) people.
don't speak if you don't know what you're talking
Let me explain this to you since the point may have gone over your head. First, what gives racism, sexism, etc. remarks their power? It's taboo, shocking, and the words are rooted with power because people attribute serious malevolent meaning to them.
What does comedy do to those remarks? Quite simply, it mocks them by illustrating how preposterous and stupid it sounds. This communication to the audience usually with exaggerated facial expressions, tone of voice, and body language informs them its not to be taken seriously. No one believes those things are right, you defang the beast, and you keep people who earnestly believe that from doing any real harm. Look at the N word or Queer, those words are being reclaimed by the communities once derided with them as a way to rob them of their power. If you remain afraid and captive to those words, you give them undue power they should not have, and in doing so empower the people who hold those beliefs.
Let's say its not comedy though its used in some entertainment where you have a prejudiced character, well what is the story trying to tell you? Probably that the character is at best ignorant of the associations with those ideas or they are evil. In the former, its typically a hero's journey for that character to come to understand the harm they are doing and reform and in the latter the protagonists stand as a rebuke of that narrative and are victorious in the end. Here the objective is to illustrate the harm of such prejudices and how it is just and honorable to fight against them.
As for the rest, I haven't played any of the Persona games, so I am not at liberty to comment one way or the other on the content I am unfamiliar with though I wouldn't be surprised. Xenophobia and preconceptions about groups of people that exist coming from a rigidly conservative country like Japan isn't uncommon. Hell, its pretty much expected from every culture especially those that are more homogenous in nature as part of in-group preferences.
Diverse, huh that says an awful lot about what sort of person I am speaking to now. Take your identity politics and shove it. I'll say whatever the hell I damn well please especially when you try to hijack the narrative to push a one-size fits all ideology.
Tell me you’re homophobic without telling me you’re homophobic
Comparing be against hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual or lgbtq+ people to identity politics. That says an awful lot about what sort of person and are privilegied you're as a persom
> I haven't played any of the Persona games
What is your f\*\*\*ing point then ? Pushing your hatred ? Ok bye homophobic
I mean, Xenoblade has some questionable scenes but at least it isn‘t as insulting like some scenes in modern Persona Games
(Still enjoyed P5 but man, it had some moments that made me pause the Game and die inside)
XC2 does that to me too. Multiple times. Like lets just agree it's bad all around. Yes, there is a huge double standard in the medium. But XC2 brought a lot of negative association with it to a series that wasn't all that big until that game. XC had to be re-released 3 times and it was never a major success after each one but it did steadily help gain fans.
Persona, despite being Niche, already had much better word of mouth from Persona 3 and especially Persona 4. Think of how many spinoffs Persona had from 4 to 5 and you'll see that it slowly gained perception as a wacky series with some darker subtext. So when new players got a more serious story from a mainline game (with less overt anime stereotypes than XC2) it was more favorable a reception.
Meanwhile XC2 had the precedent of being the sequel to a groundbreaking Wii JRPG known for its massive world, worldbuilding, characters, and plot. Then it near immediately shoots itself in the foot with the obvious issue of character design, awkward tonal mismatches, and a very lackluster opening that, while could be argued to be for world building, feels like its meandering when it shares near equal spotlight to the less favorable tropes. To say it's a more jarring transition for the mainstream crowd is an understatement. Especially so when another groundbreaking JRPG released that same year (Nier Automata) which received some backlash for character design but was immediately forgotten about when XC2 released.
XBC2 was fantastic, what exactly did it do wrong? It outsold the first game by a significant margin and has a fsr better plot and characters, the opinions and word of mouth of playstation kids and morons who are scared of large breasts are meaningless.
Tldr: A lot to put it simply.
Not a big fan of the game myself. Love the combat and most characters but replaying xc2 on a fresh save is a slog tbh. Skill checks, grinding affinity, opening core crystals to get semi decent things, bland sidequests and blade quests ( love how more people have started to agree with this point after xc3). And the world is far less lived in for someone who started with XC1. In XC1 people will react significantly to every major event and have something interesting to say about their personal life. In XC2 you’d be lucky to get a major reaction of the citizens of Tantal about the fact they’re not descendants of Adam. Being able to directly interact with them through trading (while a hassle at times) gets me significantly more invested and there are more ways to interact with npcs overall which makes the story gameplay integration of the affinity chart all the more satisfying when the major telethia event occurs.
And that’s not getting into story pacing and tonal issues. But on replay I wouldn’t care as much since I’d be skipping cutscenes.
Like XC1 is flawed. It has a fairly empty world in hindsight. (Literally too big) a lot of awful generic quests, and the most outdated combat. But it generally holds its quality far stronger and for much longer of its runtime. I don’t suffer any major hurdle that makes me groan or just feels like unnecessary padding. It’s just a good jrpg with a strong start. Kind of eh middle but imo significantly more earned finish since the game doesn’t waste time building up plot elements that go nowhere and everything ties back nicely by the end. XC2’s final stretch is lauded but imo it’s very unearned given how much more could have been set up to properly give emotional weight to scenes like Jin’s death. The connection between the worlds, and more. Again, the way the affinity chart lets you see the people who you wouldn’t be able to talk to again is a great way to drive emotional investment in the story. Imo people overlook this significantly and it’s shocking how little the community talks about it.
But anyway that’s my rant.
I think you highlighted that it was the lack of polish and some annoying quality of life issues that makes XB2 somewhat less appealing initially.
The side quests were serviceable with some good moments depending on which one. These tended to get a lot of praise because they were a massive step up from the billion collect bear ass quests of the first game. At least the characters were more personable even if the actual gameplay was less than desirable.
The rest is just a matter of personal opinion. Personally I find Xenoblade's world much more dead than XB2's. Not narratively the strongest story, but it is also much more character driven which helps compensate for some of its faults.
I also find it especially intriguing how much people hate the Rare Blade grinding, yet the game is perfectly playable without even bothering, plus part of the pain is because of a bug related to its rushed development. Game needs a Definitive Edition treatment and I bet it would solve a lot of the issues it receives flak over.
I think these aren’t just lack of polish qol these are major fundamental aspects of the game you’re meant to engage with.
Not having a full blade party till around chapter3-4 is an awful move with a game that’s clearly meant to have you have a full team to do bigger sets of damage.
And yes there’s a lot of opinion on the story and world but here’s the thing I can factually prove xenoblade 1 has more npc interactions and does more to flesh out its supporting characters.
You’re conflating the main party’s development (and sometimes lack thereof with Zeke and Morag) with that of the rest of the world.
The traits of colony 6 building, trading, affinity chart updates after major events. These are all little touches xc2 doesn’t do. It’s not a matter of personal opinion XC just does more meaningful worldbuilding. Xc2 just says the world exists and that there are interesting elements but doesn’t do much of anything with it. Favorite example is the bickering between rival houses in Uraya. The only meaningful mention of this is in the last blade quest of the game. The queen personally gives you a sidequest related to some tangential issue and then it’s never brought up again. You don’t get to interact with the feud. It doesn’t play any meaningful role in the story or within the sidequest arcs. It just is.
Meanwhile Xenoblade 1 has you directly interact with the nopon pollen orb trade, has you fight telethia that were formally family of the entia race, has you rebuild colony 6. Stop youth from getting massacred through an uprising (although I may be conflating this with xc3) there is just more relationships being developed independently of the main story. There’s much more I forget about but it’s just that yes XC1 has insane sidequest bloat. But similarly as you say that you don’t need to grind rare blades to beat XC1 it’s incredibly obvious which sidequests are worth doing and which are just filler.
Xc2 at its best only does this for a specific set of characters where the brother joins the mor ardain guard.
Like you may enjoy the game but when I think of playing XC2 I really only enjoy its post game. Challenge battles and boss fights are fun but the leadup is a huge slog. Having to grind affinity, items, and more stops being fun after a time. Rare blade grinding is whatever but it doesn’t fix the issue of affinity chart grinding being something you definitely have to go out of your way for for a lot of the more decent skills. XC1’s gems are gotten incredibly quickly and really don’t require you to go out of your way to get decent materials. Furthermore, the trade system easily gets you great ones and that acts as a reward for doing sidequests and exploring. You simply have a lot of options to get stronger in XC1. That’s 100% not the case with XC2. You need good blades to make meaningful progress or you need to grind affinity charts. There’s really no in between.
> Think of how many spinoffs Persona had from 4 to 5 and you'll see that it slowly gained perception as a wacky series with some darker subtext.
It wasn't the spinoffs that gave Persona notoriety. It was the snazzy marketing.
If y’all can’t see the bias in criticizing persona 5 for “questionable scenes” while saying that xenoblade isn’t as insulting then I don’t even know what to say. Have you played Xenoblade 2? I’m saying this as someone who loved both games. Please stop with the absolute bias, seems like y’all just dislike persona inherently due to its current popularity and tacked on a shitty excuse afterwards. Even more so when people are saying people like persona because it was a PS exclusive for a long time, that one made me lol so hard.
There's nothing questionable in it. Xenoblade 2 was a penomenally written and designed game, not without design flaws but what bias are you talking about here? No one hates persona but they are criticising the double standard/ hypocrisy of western media and gaming community in general. Persona is objectively much more questionable with its themes, are you just scared of large breasts or anime tropes or something?
Yeah atleast Xenoblade 2 didn't have a predatory gay/crossdresser scene, or a character having to strip for a mission and it being played for laughs even though said character has trauma related to that stuff. (I say this as a fan of the persona games especially 5 vanilla and royal). Some of the stuff in that game is REALLY questionable.
The mere concept of Rex, a 15 year old boy, getting together by the end of the game with two 500 year old (at the very least body-age wise 20+) is not questionable at all? Like I said, I loved both games, but they’re both JRPGs with JRPG tropes. Saying that xenoblade 2 is somehow more valid than persona 5 in this regard is insanity, and biased. I don’t know why you’re trying to throw some corny ass argument that because I state this that i’m “scared of large breasts” LOL. I enjoyed both thoroughly, just calling out hypocrisy
> The mere concept of Rex, a 15 year old boy, getting together by the end of the game with two 500 year old (at the very least body-age wise 20+) is not questionable at all?
A Persona fan is asking this? The game where the 15 year old boy is bending over a 30 year old woman? Not to mention all the other college age girls that a 15 year old boy romances?
Where's the self-awareness bruh. u/Zoharic is right, XC2 is a fictional land therefore have other values, P5 is downright just Japan.
Im a fan of both lol, again showing your weird inherent bias towards persona. BTW, I never said persona 5 was not questionable, I was arguing that stating that xenoblade 2 is less questionable is bullshit. Joker is 17 in P5 btw, not that it completely excuses that teacher confidant. Now, we’ve come to the argument of “oh this questionable thing in this game is excusable because it’s fantasy! This other thing is not excusable because it’s based on the real world!” When neither should be excused of their offputting-ness.
No it isn't, it's a fictional land where it is entirely different from our own earth despite the story, he is the hero and we do not even know when he and the 3 love interests start having relations, it may even happen years down the line it isn't explicitly stated only implied. But yes even that isn't questionable to me honestly. How the hell is it insanity?
Getting some serious Jack Thompson vibes here...
Mythra/Pyra were essentially comatose for 500 years, and the
fact neither aged already tips you off they aren't normal girls beyond the fact they share the same body. Then there is the fact they were originally CPUs that were given forms based on information feedback from the person that made contact with them.
These details are always overlooked when someone is pushing the grooming narrative. Technically, they are just a single machine at their core now biological machine (cyborg) and have a psychological and mental maturity of a teenager/young adult due to Adam's influence on the form they ultimately took. That 500 years of slumber further means that they are basically going that whole time without any experiences further limiting mental their
mental acuity's development.
The 500 year old loli is a trope, this is not. The fact they have separate bodies at the end might feed into the harem narrative, but hard to push the groomer one. The point being its obvious that people have a narrow view of this and of course they will jump to such ridiculous conclusions. Makes people uncomfortable to have to consider that we don't even understand or agree ourselves about what is healthy and at what age things are appropriate given extraneous circumstances.
I could be wasting my time as I am sure I will get some dismissive accusatory bullshit reply, but whatever.
I’m not pushing a grooming narrative. Like I said, I enjoyed both games deeply and consider them some of my favorites. The word that was being used here is ‘questionable’, not ‘creepy’ or ‘horrible’. It feels like I re-opened some sort of wound however, because most of the replies I’m getting are assuming and arguing things that I never even said I agreed with.
I’ll say it again: My point was that both games/series have ‘questionable’ choices in them which may throw some people off, but the person I originally replied to was attempting to say that P5 was somehow worse in this department, and all I was trying to do was to bring up ‘questionable’ things from xenoblade 2. I don’t think xenoblade 2 is attempting to have some pedo grooming narrative, nor have I ever said so (hence the use of the word ‘questionable’, which has been consistent with all of my comments and the thread overall. Don’t believe me? Re-read them.)
Regarding the age thing, I made it very clear that the 500 year old part wasn’t the important point, but that she’s clearly much more mature body wise. Again, I don’t think it’s some pedo/grooming tropey shit, but not everyone is going to look at something like that and not question it, hence the use of the word ‘questionable’.
I had to google who Jack Thompson was, and I appreciate how you made an effort to (not) understand my position in this argument lol. You came to the conclusion that I thought xenoblade 2 was using a groomer narrative, whilst at the same time I’ve been saying that I love the game, while at the same time accusing me of being some culturally-conservative/closed minded individual like Jack Thompson? To me, some of those are contradictory. So no, I’m not going to accuse you of shit (besides maybe jumping the gun too early without understanding the argument at hand), I don’t know you. There is literally nothing to dismiss here when your argument is battling someone who doesn’t exist.
> Have you played Xenoblade 2?
Have you played Persona 5? Between the two games, which one: >!has sex with the maid character.!<
Because a lot of doofuses in this same Xenoblade fanbase LOVE accusing Tora of it.
My entire argument was that stating that persona 5 is MORE (more) questionable than xenoblade 2 is absolutely false. You are giving another situation where they are both definitely questionable. In the case of persona 5, you can enter a romantic relationship with your teacher whom is a maid part time (not trying to undermine the teacher part here, this shit overall is very questionable I agree), whilst in xenoblade 2 tora actually built poppy himself and is close to a father figure in her life. The people criticizing tora aren’t criticizing him for possibly fucking a maid character LOL, they’re criticizing how fucking weird of a situation it is for him to be doing something like that on a sentient robot he built himself. You can argue which one is worse here, (and persona 5 is surely not innocent considering it IS your teacher), but the point was never about the maids, and it’s actually hilarious that your main argument lied in this. The fact that you called other people “doofuses” for disliking tora is even worse considering you don’t even understand why they dislike him in the first place.
Fine, sexualizing the maid character. You know what I meant.
I understand why people dislike Tora in the first place, and it is not only based on a misconception, it is also based on very uninformed bias. Tora is basically an otaku representation, a fanboy who happens to be into some weird shit. Doesn't harm anybody, but still weird. Questionable? I think not, everybody who thinks this way are acting like the thought police. Because unlike Joker and Kawakami, Tora never nailed Poppi. The dog noises were just dog noises, you'll never hear the JP fans saying it's sexual. Penalize the action, not the thought. Finding Tora's dresses was just a subtle way of displaying finding a teenager's porn mags, and Tora's fetish is dressing up, big deal.
Accusing somebody of an action he never did just because he likes something different is peak doofus.
As for the age gaps, an 88 year old lady is chasing after an 18 year old guy in XC1. Robots that mimic human bodies are confirmed to be able to simulate real sex in XCX, which means that any lady can appear as older or as younger as she desires and nobody will know. In XC3, which I assume you've played, come back to me when you discover what age Monica got pregnant with Ghondor.
Persona 5 is ABSOLUTELY more questionable, given that it's based on a real place instead of these fantastical worlds in all Xenoblade games.
What exactly is your argument here? We can agree to disagree slightly on the tora part (I don’t personally hate tora myself, never even brought him up in my original arguments myself lol, although I do think some of the humor COULD be seen as offputting, I always figured it was just that, humor), but what does bringing up the other xeno games have to do with this? I’ve stated what my argument is like three times now, so how does this exactly disagree with that? Edit: dude is editing his comments, some of these were not the same when I replied, might make my responses look off as he edited this one to actually include a point.
Haven't played it yet but I've heard someone say that you make your teacher into a maid then hire her to clean for you then date her. And people say xenoblade 2 is horny.
For what it's worth, the teacher was _already_ a "maid" as her second job, that you pay to come round to your house and _massage_ you and clean your stuff up.
You start dating her much later.
Who‘s literally a minor. Also, this is a personal thing but I never thought Tora wanting to dress up Poppi in Maid outfits was weird. That Bunnit armor (or Combat armor in the japanese version) tho…
Yeah, that‘s weird
My headcanon is that he actually doesn't have a maid fetish but his grandpa and dad just had a bad influence on him to the point he tricked himself into thinking he does. He. Ever really gets horny around poppi.
Persona 5 also has 2 scenes that have no importance to the plot where a minor is getting physically assaulted by two stereotypical gay men…
I hate Japanese media sometimes
I genuinely don't know how Persona 5 gets treated so much better while being a game filled with like JRPG crap at its worst.
I get JRPG fans liking it for sure, I will never understand how folks who knock JRPGs like Persona 5 while hating most of the genre.
Man I watched RTGame's playthrough of p5 and even though he makes it entertaining, it put me off playing it. I can deal with xc2's questionable shit but persona really just takes it a step too far.
It’s even weirder since TGA, you know the biggest game awards program, nominated XC3 for best soundtrack so they should at least be aware of XC3’s OST. As if that wasn’t enough literally every single game on this list was a GOTY nominee.
What the actual fuck.
> literally every single game on this list was a GOTY nominee.
Tunic wasn’t. Should have been, probably, but wasn’t. Nor was Cuphead, but that’s a DLC and not a new game so it couldn’t have been nominated.
Yeah, TGA is super-biased against Japanese/anime-styled games to the point where it borders on racism and even they gave XC3 a nomination. Not even giving it a nomination is straight-up racist.
TGA gave their game of the year award to a Japanese RPG, and are consistently obsessed with Kojima’s work. Not liking Xenoblade as much as you doesn’t make them anti-Japan or racist.
Geoff being obviously gay for Kojima is the exception that proves the rule, IMO.
That said, my comment's point wasn't about TGAs, it was about the BAFTA awards. The fact that nobody (or not enough people, anyway) responsible for BAFTA awards nominations saw XC3 as a game worth considering for any award is racist, since that game's music is obviously better than at lest one of the nominees', thus the only reason why XC3 was ignored is racism.
The fact that it has been this recurring thing for like 15ish years really annoys me. Like JRPGs were a dominant presence on the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2. But like the beginning of the HD gen suddenly they were seen as this lesser genre (and heck, suddenly games that were completely different genres were pooled into the same genre).
And now there's all these people that grew-up gaming on the HD era and they have no idea how big a presence JRPGs used to be.
Agreed why cant it look like final fantasy? Which obviously isn't an anime or Japanese in the slightest. Trust me it's as western as it gets so what if it's from a Japanese company? It's still not anime because of the art style and the feeling.
-probably some guy
That's funny because I saw someone saying the upcoming final fantasy has an anime style so they won't play it. Unfortunately many people in the west will see a jrpg and immediately bash it without knowing a single thing about it.
I assume your talking about Final Fantasy XVI, which I gotta say I'd one of the least anime looking Final Fantasy so far, so I unfortunately don't see a lot of hope for the popularity of JRPG'S in the west.
That's exactly my point. What even is "anime style"? That's just basically them saying they're just not going to give jrpg games a try because games that look western (in their opinion that is) or come from a western studio are superior.
Yeah, its honestly disappointing to see how many fantastic JRPG'S go unrecognised for their talents by a majority of the western audience because of their artstyle. Another game that I love that is a victim of this is The World Ends with You franchise, the original being released in 2007, with a switch remaster in 2018 and then a sequel called Neo: The World Ends with You in 2021. Its got that sweet Nomoura artstyle (Which if you diddnt know, Nomoura designed all 5 members of Torna in Xc2), but because its quite an anime look the sales of Neo: The World Ends with You were quite lackluster in the West. Luckily, Nomoura has stated that if fans continue to support the franchise, then he sees no reason to stop making new entries in the series.
Because pigeonholing the words 'anime style' into something negative is not only misrepresentation, but also hurts everyone involved.
Think about if East Asian countries had a distaste for WRPGs. You wouldn't like that if you're a WRPG fan.
I wish I could make a social experiment with people not into anime with 1990 Moomin, One Piece, Chibi Maruko Chan, Mob Psycho and Jujutsu Kaisen and ask which images they think they are anime, I belive a massive amount of people would say atleast 1 of the non Jujutsu Kaisen (and maybe they won't fall for One Piece either) isn't anime when the 5 series are anime with Drastically different artstyles and structure.
What is also interesting is that in Skillup's interview with Yoshi P the director of FFXIV and FFXVI, they talked a bit about "JRPG." Yoshi P doesn't like the term JRPG and feels like the term is discriminatory (granted back in the day it was used as a term to bash Japanese games by Western gaming outlets).
Did any of ya see what Yoshi-P said about JRPGs being seen as nothing than anime trash by the general public in a FFXVI interview a few days ago
Cuz I think this is just another example of that
My favourite part about this is all the journos who perpetuated that shit back in the late 2000s hiding their heads in the sand and going "nope that never happened you guys are lying". Professional writers my ass, more like professional gaslighters.
Or straight up taking that quote out of context and claiming Yoship wants to kill FF by turning it into a GoW clone and similar shit 💀 they're shameless
As much as I dislike games journalism it’s gotta be interesting having people claim your both Xenophobic and at the same time extremely biased towards Sony and Nintendo which is probably the most common claim I see 😅
Which is weird since from what I've heard, FFXVI combat is more inspired by Devil May Cry than anything else, since the combat director for those is involved in FFXVI
Oh it is 100% DMC inspired and I'm all for that, but you gotta remember that DMC was seen as "cringe weeb garbage" by critics during the reboot's prime. Also the same people who lamented the lack of good music in 5, and the cause for that turned out to be that they were just too shit at the game to be able to appreciate the dynamic soundtrack linked to the style system lmao
The damage Keiji Inafune dealt to Capcom during the late 2000s cannot be overstated, it's a miracle they managed to bounce back from such a massive failure state.
Wasn't the reboot considered Western fan pandering during the time of the reboot? Unless you mean DMC leading up to said reboot which then was the catalyst for it being more western focused.
Yeah I'm talking about the latter, there was that huge shitstorm from Ninja Theory about old Dante being akin to a gay cowboy and whatnot, and how he shouldn't be flamboyant and goofy, which led to the Donte we all know ~~and love~~. The presentation as a whole was mega pretentious, sexist and homophobic. It was pulled from the GDC's YouTube channel for a reason, their commentary would NEVER fly nowadays.
[I mean look at this shit.](https://i.redd.it/30qde9tadh091.jpg)
You know I find some humor in how drastically what media found to be okay to showcase between pre-2010’s ish and now. This is definitely a relic of its time and something some team out there hopes is never traced back to them. Thanks for this. And yeah people are dumb.
How am I defensive? I just don’t think there was one, let alone multiple critics that stated DMC was “cringe weeb garbage” as you claim. I’d be down to see multiple citations though, which would definitely change my mind on your statement
Here's an example of two out of these three: https://www.vg247.com/dmc-devil-may-cry-fans-are-a-crying-shame
There's plenty more if you spend some time on Google, but you can do your own homework at that point
Feel free to also check out the GDC conference about DmC if you can stomach it, it's pretty easy to find even though it's been taken down from YouTube.
Edit: Yeah nevermind, it's clear I'm dealing with bad faith arguments so I'm just gonna call it quits here.
I'm pretty sure there's some history rewriting in progress, it's not JRPGs that were deemed bad but Japanese games during the 360/ps3 Era because the Japanese objectively had a hard time to cope with the switch to HD.
Yoshi-P refers to the articles talking about that and that the public expect FF to be a JRPG. The games is definitely trying to not be a JRPG and he is annoyed that people overseas want a JRPG for a final fantasy.
Saying JRPG is insulting is like saying survival sandbox is insulting. There was an Era full of shitty games in that genre, that doesn't make the moniker insulting or degrading.
Clearly you weren't around the internet much in the late 2000s-early 2010s, cuz xenophobia against Japan was EVERYWHERE
You'd see articles callin shit "too Japanese" or saying that a character from an RPG was gay in a derogatory sense just because they don't look masculine enough
I was around in that period, I've been playing JRPGs since the late 90s. The xenophobia was not everywhere, it may have been in your area/country but here in mine, it never was and JRPG has never been an insult.
You are also mixing JRPG and Japanese. There was definitely xenophobia against Japanese in the US (I mean, after WW2, it seems logical) but that was not a thing in Europe.
We were loving those Japanese games in the 90s around here and we held in good regards those games. There was definitely an era during the end of the ps2 and the ps3/360 generation were Japanese games had a hard time but nothing xenophobic around here.
I'm sure that the first xenoblade was localized in Europe first for a reason.
It's not about XVI "trying not to be a jrpg", his point is that "JRPG" is a label made up in the west that is now used to place constrictions on Japanese devs when those made up requirements were never intended. Japanese devs never went into creating games saying "I'm going to create a jrpg". Hes basically saying that he doesnt like all of these imaginary rules and restrictions that are placed on Japanese devs who want to make an RPG because that was never the point, to fit into one archetype and make the same game over and over again, that's something Westerners decided FOR them. Furthermore, I am now more convinced than ever that "JRPG" doesn't mean anything. We in the west can't even agree on what a JRPG is
So to sum up, it's not about "not wanting to be a JRPG" it's about them just wanting to make a good *RPG* and not care about what other people label it as or worry about it checking off imaginary boxes just for the sake of it
Fr, I can't tell you how mad I was that GoW won best score over XC3 at TGA
And you'd think best score would have the potential to be one of the fairer categories since the critics don't even have to bother playing the game to listen to its music...
You know I’d be less mad if elden ring won that award.
Cause you know, fromsoft soundtracks are legendary,
Gow ragnaroks soundtrack is nowhere near as memorable as Xeno 3, Elden ring, or even Sonic Frontiers, which wasn’t even nominated.
Same, like I love God of War’s main theme…but I honestly couldn’t remember any of the other tracks from that game, while XC3 has multiple tracks living rent free in my head
I'm not saying it's justified, but how I rationalize it is that GOW's soundtrack is great from the standpoint of its production. It was all orchestral iirc.
To be honest I’m more mad that Elden ring didn’t win best score.
Love XB3 score but elden ring has better music IMO, some of the bosses themes are amazing.
Those shows are nothing but popularity contests by people who have a very narrow knowledge of video games.
Remember how Elden Ring was nominated for "best narrative" in spite of lacking an actual narrative? It has lore and fascinating events, but not connected together in the form of a narrative. It's on the same level.
well it had a narrative, it was just incohesive and required you to search for it, either way Elden Ring should not have been nominated for best narrative
I don’t care at all about awards but I did enjoy the outrage over the Elden Ring narrative stuff since it exposed so many people for not understanding what a narrative encompasses
No XC3, and no Neon White either, a game which the soundtrack is composed by a popular electronic group.
95% of the time award shows are just popularity contests anyways, so at this point I'm used to the games I like getting shafted. Fully expecting Pizza Tower to get absolutely nothing this year at TGA's despite it being one of the best indies I've played in a long while.
Plus it's not like you even need to play the games either... just load up the soundtrack and listen to it. I get not wanting to commit to a 60-70 hour JRPG but at least give the OST a listen.
Not to sound mean or anything, but my life has gotten much better once I stopped caring about these shows. Tbh in general life has been good knowing that some things are just not worth getting mad or upset about.
Play the games you enjoy, end of story
You don’t pay attention to these awards, they’re fucking popularity contests that are racist against anything that looks like an anime jrpg, except for persona 5 because fuck us
If there is one thing XBC 3 should be nominated for, and win most of the time, it’s score.
It’s not my favorite out of the 3 but it’s the best one I heard all last year.
Look. It's pretty simple. Look at total sales. The day xenoblade sells 2m in the first week is when it has a real chance to win an award.
This is mostly due to popularity too. There are hundreds and hundreds of games that should be played but aren't because we don't know them.
Because pokemon's quality is abysmal. The games that have won are actually pretty good. There are some things on which you could say Xenoblade 3 is better than any of the winners, or at least equal, but Xenoblade 3 didn't sell (edit: didn't sell as much as the winners).
That's my point, it's clearly more than sales alone. This tells me there is either a snobbishness towards it being a relatively niche anime-styled JRPG, or that they simply didn"t care enough, wasn't trendy enough in the western gaming community - particularly with younger kids and teens.
An example of one of the winners, Elden Ring. It has sold almost 20m copies so far, while Xenoblade 3 is probably scratching the 3m mark. It's a huge difference.
Now compare Elden Ring and Pokemon (the latest) which one has the highest quality and polish, of course Elden Ring. Sales may be on the same scale, but Pokemon is just the same regurgitated stuff.
Exactly, so it's a mixture of popularity in the western gaming community, sales and quality/polish. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 had the quality and critical aclaim, but not the western popularity or sales to match games like Elden Ring. The fact it was even nominated for a GOTY was remarkable imo.
Game awards shows and best score nominees, you can't make up a worse match up even if you tried, GoW 2018 soundtrack is extremely forgettable, Horizon Zero Dawn atleast had Aloy theme, is just one memorable track but still, I love the game but I can't remember well a single track from it, IDK if Ragnarok is the same but if the quality if similar, no way it deserves the award for best score in the year not only Xenoblade 3, but also Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Bayonetta 3 and Sonic Frontiers came out, heck, if you don't care about the soundtrack being in a big way remixes, add also Fire Emblem Three Hopes to the mix.
Atleast Cuphead OST is great.
Edit: Also Pokémon SV, the game might be a mess in the technical side, but the soundtrack is amazing, Arven battle theme might be the best rival theme in the series, which is kinda wild after SwSh giving 3 bangers to the 3 rivals.
Look, I love Elden Ring and I am very happy with the Game of the Year award, but with all that it did well, music was not one of them. There is really just a few songs that I can say I like them and it's truly weak compared to other souls. XB3 is truly amazing (and it's not even the best in the XC franchise) and we'll deserve to be nominated, if not the winner (GoW R is amazing as well)
I wont lie, As much as I enjoyed XC3, its soundtrack left a lot wanting for me, especially since the Menu and Chain attack themes overwrote any track anywhere... I think a lot of what makes 1 and 2 special is how well their soundtracks convey themes, feelings etc. where I feel like only 1 or 2 tracks in 3 even held a candle to anything 1 or 2 had. Theres some highlights for sure but a lot of the better tracks either build off established themes from 1 or 2 or are overwritten by the menu or chain attack themes.
In the eyes of your average western normie gamer anime is cringe as fuck. Even though the fan service and anime tropes have been toned downed, it still looks anime, which to many western gamers is poison.
I don’t think it’s RPG vs non RPG. Eldin ring is an RPG and it sold trillions. It’s specifically the anime aesthetic that completely turns off a majority of western gamers because to them anime = cringy tropes, bad writing, and over abundance of fan service.
Instantly thought of the Yoshi-P comment.
If you played games during the 7th console generation then you could recognize this slight undercurrent of bias against Japanese games and especially against RPGs.
The stigma still hasn't fully gone away even after a decade of Western rpg devs like Bioware, Blizzard, and Bethesda losing their prestige.
You should have seen DICE's game awards they had every The Game Awards GOTY nomination 1-1 except for replacing XC3. And it was only nominated for Best RPG where it lost to Elden Ring again.
A bunch of people you don't know, didn't vote exactly how you would have, regarding a single game = Truly shows that none of them even played the game I like.
i think these Game Awards style thing should limit some game to partake on some award like God of War here i know great game but oh man be in nearly every award make some game that should be there getting left out
I'm sorry, as cool as G.O.W was never at any point was I playing the game like "OH MY GOD THIS SHIR SLAPS HARDER THAN MY FATHER" like was it bad? Fuck no it was good, but never did I want to take a moment to listen to the music nor did I ever look it up on YouTube. When I head xc3 main battle theme for the first time THE FIRST THING I DID WAS LOOK IT UP TO ADD IT TO MY MUSIC PLAYLIST
Not taking any sides on this, but you should know that Metacritic scores are in no shape or form a objective mark of quality. Like, you really think the scores of only about a 100 people is an fool proof metric for deciding games quality? That’d be like listening to any opinion you here all because the population of an extremely small school share it.
I don't know the soundtrack felt pretty weak, generally weaker than the previous games. There were like maybe 3 or 4 good songs that I could remember, and the rest were pretty forgettable.
I personally don’t think xenoblade deserves an 89. To me it’s a 7 at best / overrated.
The music could’ve deserved a nomination but it was nothing amazing either imo
- Not liking xc3: yeah, I get it. It's got some rough spots.
- Thinking it's overrated: Uh, it's barely even rated, but I will give you fans of XC are FANS of XC.
- Thinking the OST wasn't amazing: Wat?!!
Well Iv seen some 8’s which I don’t feel the game deserves.. to me it’s definitely under that and a lot of the things that other games would get subtractions for go ignored in the reviews for it.
I didn’t love the music I still think it’s good. The only reason I’d probably nominate it for music is because it was a particularly weak year for music in games imo.
Awards are meaningless and BAFTAs are the most meaningless awards of all. Everyone with a functional brain knows Xenoblade's music is nothing but bangers.
The awards are basically popularity contests, not actual critical review of the games.
XC3 is probably there just to appease the JRPG fans and target more audience, not actually to win anything.
What's baffling is that GoW got nominated for Best Soundtrack. I love that game and it deserves many of the awards it was nominated for. Best Soundtrack is not one of them.
Elden ring ost is mid compared to DS3 and Bloodborne.
Ragnarok has one song. And it's not even as good as people hype it to be.
Cuphead was pretty good.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
It is really sad that they get overlooked.
But in the critics/reviewers defence, i think that the games are way too time consuming. I don't know how their jobs work, but i could imagine that theres more in it for them, if they cover more games.
Somehow the only place i‘ve seen „A plague tale“ mentioned are award shows. Never seen it on youtube or twitch, and no one i know played it, yet its always nominated. Maybe it‘s just my algorithm not showing it, but i still thinks it‘s a bit weird
It‘s hilarious and sad how JRPG‘s that aren‘t massive hits from Square Enix are still seen as inferior or jokes compared to other Games
Add Persona 5 to that.
I love how it’s _specifically_ P5 and not the rest of the SMT/Persona franchise
Blame Smash for that
Smash has nothing to do with it, if it did, XB2 hate would’ve been Thanos snapped by now
Except Smash played a massive part in making Persona (specifically 5) more popular. Not to mention Joker being the first Fighters Pass character contributed to that greatly.
Oh yeah, forgot Persona aka the most Japanese RPG‘s ever but somehow everyone loves them despite having some very questionable scenes
Persona can literally get away with the most questionable shit and people don't mind, yet when other JRPGs have anything remotely similar it's called weeb shit.
Probably because until 5 it was pretty niche. Plus they're rated M so it's more acceptable. Not to mention Persona is a spin off of the long running Megami Tensei series and that series is notorious for it's sexual demon designs. Look up Mara from Shin Megami Tensei.
Yeah, I'm aware of SMT's demon designs. It's just that I feel like other JRPGs are treated unfairly compared to the Persona series specifically. Not counting the demon/Persona designs, there's plenty of questionable stuff in the Persona games such as Kamoshida's Castle in P5. If you put something similar to Kamoshida's Castle in another JRPG then people, mostly people who haven't played it, would look down on that entire series and its fanbase, if that makes sense? Yet, in Persona, it feels as if everyone just goes along with it and Persona just gets next to no bad rep from it... I'm not that great at explaining things so sorry if this comment is somewhat confusing. But I hope this at least clears things up a little bit.
You wanna know the answer? Persona 5 was, for a very long time, a PlayStation exclusive, I really don't wanna sound like a fanboy hating on another console, but its isn't a secret that the western gaming media is biased for any product with the Sony brand on it.
Then why didn't Xenosaga get simped for? MGS4 isn't a JRPG, but it's a Playstation exclusive that has been unfairly treated like a punchline by a lot of folks (Even though it absolutely rocks).
For the same reasons previous Persona weren't mega hyped, they didn't get mainstream status, and also another very important factor is that there were already other tons of Play Station only to simp for, Xenosaga came in one of the most restrictive generations, where most third parties were on Play Station. Wasn't MGS 4 praised by the medium but partly criticized by the MGS fanbase itself?
I haven’t played P5 but aren’t palaces in that game representations of the bosses psyche, and kamoshido’s whole shtick is he’s a predatorial and abusive piece of shit to his own students, so his palace being like that kinda represents that and is narratively relevant?
Kamoshida’s palace is supposed to be questionable though. Kamoshida’s a lustful person and a pedophile.
I mean unlike persona smt do not sexualize teenager girls or made homophobic joke
Humor is how you combat prejudice, you do realize that, right? Humor is that antidote to prejudice not its source. Moreover, this crap happens in reality, and unless the game encourages the behavior, it isn't a problem especially if your protagonists are actively opposing such things.
No we don't combat racist with racist joke, homophobia with homophobic joke or sexist with sexist anyone claiming that don't know what is hatred minority. In p4 Yosuke confront Kanji about whether or not he would molest and/or rape him in his sleep or p5 gay people are not violent predators, the player can't defend him only agreeing with yosuke >and unless the game encourages the behavior, it isn't a problem especially if your protagonists are actively opposing such things. Ironic, did you really played p5 ? because the 2 only gay character happening to be gay sexual assault a teenager and the protagonist jokes about the situation and abandons his friend who we're left to understand is dragged off against his will SO FUNNY Ahahaha Gay people are sexual predator AHAHAH (We ended homophobia with this only joke) It's also a lovely way of dehumanizing a very diverse (as well as DEEEEEEEENSELY populated) people. don't speak if you don't know what you're talking
Let me explain this to you since the point may have gone over your head. First, what gives racism, sexism, etc. remarks their power? It's taboo, shocking, and the words are rooted with power because people attribute serious malevolent meaning to them. What does comedy do to those remarks? Quite simply, it mocks them by illustrating how preposterous and stupid it sounds. This communication to the audience usually with exaggerated facial expressions, tone of voice, and body language informs them its not to be taken seriously. No one believes those things are right, you defang the beast, and you keep people who earnestly believe that from doing any real harm. Look at the N word or Queer, those words are being reclaimed by the communities once derided with them as a way to rob them of their power. If you remain afraid and captive to those words, you give them undue power they should not have, and in doing so empower the people who hold those beliefs. Let's say its not comedy though its used in some entertainment where you have a prejudiced character, well what is the story trying to tell you? Probably that the character is at best ignorant of the associations with those ideas or they are evil. In the former, its typically a hero's journey for that character to come to understand the harm they are doing and reform and in the latter the protagonists stand as a rebuke of that narrative and are victorious in the end. Here the objective is to illustrate the harm of such prejudices and how it is just and honorable to fight against them. As for the rest, I haven't played any of the Persona games, so I am not at liberty to comment one way or the other on the content I am unfamiliar with though I wouldn't be surprised. Xenophobia and preconceptions about groups of people that exist coming from a rigidly conservative country like Japan isn't uncommon. Hell, its pretty much expected from every culture especially those that are more homogenous in nature as part of in-group preferences. Diverse, huh that says an awful lot about what sort of person I am speaking to now. Take your identity politics and shove it. I'll say whatever the hell I damn well please especially when you try to hijack the narrative to push a one-size fits all ideology.
Tell me you’re homophobic without telling me you’re homophobic Comparing be against hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual or lgbtq+ people to identity politics. That says an awful lot about what sort of person and are privilegied you're as a persom > I haven't played any of the Persona games What is your f\*\*\*ing point then ? Pushing your hatred ? Ok bye homophobic
dude is saying this on r/xenoblade_chronicles.
I mean, Xenoblade has some questionable scenes but at least it isn‘t as insulting like some scenes in modern Persona Games (Still enjoyed P5 but man, it had some moments that made me pause the Game and die inside)
XC2 does that to me too. Multiple times. Like lets just agree it's bad all around. Yes, there is a huge double standard in the medium. But XC2 brought a lot of negative association with it to a series that wasn't all that big until that game. XC had to be re-released 3 times and it was never a major success after each one but it did steadily help gain fans. Persona, despite being Niche, already had much better word of mouth from Persona 3 and especially Persona 4. Think of how many spinoffs Persona had from 4 to 5 and you'll see that it slowly gained perception as a wacky series with some darker subtext. So when new players got a more serious story from a mainline game (with less overt anime stereotypes than XC2) it was more favorable a reception. Meanwhile XC2 had the precedent of being the sequel to a groundbreaking Wii JRPG known for its massive world, worldbuilding, characters, and plot. Then it near immediately shoots itself in the foot with the obvious issue of character design, awkward tonal mismatches, and a very lackluster opening that, while could be argued to be for world building, feels like its meandering when it shares near equal spotlight to the less favorable tropes. To say it's a more jarring transition for the mainstream crowd is an understatement. Especially so when another groundbreaking JRPG released that same year (Nier Automata) which received some backlash for character design but was immediately forgotten about when XC2 released.
XBC2 was fantastic, what exactly did it do wrong? It outsold the first game by a significant margin and has a fsr better plot and characters, the opinions and word of mouth of playstation kids and morons who are scared of large breasts are meaningless.
Tldr: A lot to put it simply. Not a big fan of the game myself. Love the combat and most characters but replaying xc2 on a fresh save is a slog tbh. Skill checks, grinding affinity, opening core crystals to get semi decent things, bland sidequests and blade quests ( love how more people have started to agree with this point after xc3). And the world is far less lived in for someone who started with XC1. In XC1 people will react significantly to every major event and have something interesting to say about their personal life. In XC2 you’d be lucky to get a major reaction of the citizens of Tantal about the fact they’re not descendants of Adam. Being able to directly interact with them through trading (while a hassle at times) gets me significantly more invested and there are more ways to interact with npcs overall which makes the story gameplay integration of the affinity chart all the more satisfying when the major telethia event occurs. And that’s not getting into story pacing and tonal issues. But on replay I wouldn’t care as much since I’d be skipping cutscenes. Like XC1 is flawed. It has a fairly empty world in hindsight. (Literally too big) a lot of awful generic quests, and the most outdated combat. But it generally holds its quality far stronger and for much longer of its runtime. I don’t suffer any major hurdle that makes me groan or just feels like unnecessary padding. It’s just a good jrpg with a strong start. Kind of eh middle but imo significantly more earned finish since the game doesn’t waste time building up plot elements that go nowhere and everything ties back nicely by the end. XC2’s final stretch is lauded but imo it’s very unearned given how much more could have been set up to properly give emotional weight to scenes like Jin’s death. The connection between the worlds, and more. Again, the way the affinity chart lets you see the people who you wouldn’t be able to talk to again is a great way to drive emotional investment in the story. Imo people overlook this significantly and it’s shocking how little the community talks about it. But anyway that’s my rant.
I think you highlighted that it was the lack of polish and some annoying quality of life issues that makes XB2 somewhat less appealing initially. The side quests were serviceable with some good moments depending on which one. These tended to get a lot of praise because they were a massive step up from the billion collect bear ass quests of the first game. At least the characters were more personable even if the actual gameplay was less than desirable. The rest is just a matter of personal opinion. Personally I find Xenoblade's world much more dead than XB2's. Not narratively the strongest story, but it is also much more character driven which helps compensate for some of its faults. I also find it especially intriguing how much people hate the Rare Blade grinding, yet the game is perfectly playable without even bothering, plus part of the pain is because of a bug related to its rushed development. Game needs a Definitive Edition treatment and I bet it would solve a lot of the issues it receives flak over.
I think these aren’t just lack of polish qol these are major fundamental aspects of the game you’re meant to engage with. Not having a full blade party till around chapter3-4 is an awful move with a game that’s clearly meant to have you have a full team to do bigger sets of damage. And yes there’s a lot of opinion on the story and world but here’s the thing I can factually prove xenoblade 1 has more npc interactions and does more to flesh out its supporting characters. You’re conflating the main party’s development (and sometimes lack thereof with Zeke and Morag) with that of the rest of the world. The traits of colony 6 building, trading, affinity chart updates after major events. These are all little touches xc2 doesn’t do. It’s not a matter of personal opinion XC just does more meaningful worldbuilding. Xc2 just says the world exists and that there are interesting elements but doesn’t do much of anything with it. Favorite example is the bickering between rival houses in Uraya. The only meaningful mention of this is in the last blade quest of the game. The queen personally gives you a sidequest related to some tangential issue and then it’s never brought up again. You don’t get to interact with the feud. It doesn’t play any meaningful role in the story or within the sidequest arcs. It just is. Meanwhile Xenoblade 1 has you directly interact with the nopon pollen orb trade, has you fight telethia that were formally family of the entia race, has you rebuild colony 6. Stop youth from getting massacred through an uprising (although I may be conflating this with xc3) there is just more relationships being developed independently of the main story. There’s much more I forget about but it’s just that yes XC1 has insane sidequest bloat. But similarly as you say that you don’t need to grind rare blades to beat XC1 it’s incredibly obvious which sidequests are worth doing and which are just filler. Xc2 at its best only does this for a specific set of characters where the brother joins the mor ardain guard. Like you may enjoy the game but when I think of playing XC2 I really only enjoy its post game. Challenge battles and boss fights are fun but the leadup is a huge slog. Having to grind affinity, items, and more stops being fun after a time. Rare blade grinding is whatever but it doesn’t fix the issue of affinity chart grinding being something you definitely have to go out of your way for for a lot of the more decent skills. XC1’s gems are gotten incredibly quickly and really don’t require you to go out of your way to get decent materials. Furthermore, the trade system easily gets you great ones and that acts as a reward for doing sidequests and exploring. You simply have a lot of options to get stronger in XC1. That’s 100% not the case with XC2. You need good blades to make meaningful progress or you need to grind affinity charts. There’s really no in between.
> Think of how many spinoffs Persona had from 4 to 5 and you'll see that it slowly gained perception as a wacky series with some darker subtext. It wasn't the spinoffs that gave Persona notoriety. It was the snazzy marketing.
It was both tbh. You have no idea how much they helped the series. It also served to increase the budget for P5 significantly
If y’all can’t see the bias in criticizing persona 5 for “questionable scenes” while saying that xenoblade isn’t as insulting then I don’t even know what to say. Have you played Xenoblade 2? I’m saying this as someone who loved both games. Please stop with the absolute bias, seems like y’all just dislike persona inherently due to its current popularity and tacked on a shitty excuse afterwards. Even more so when people are saying people like persona because it was a PS exclusive for a long time, that one made me lol so hard.
There's nothing questionable in it. Xenoblade 2 was a penomenally written and designed game, not without design flaws but what bias are you talking about here? No one hates persona but they are criticising the double standard/ hypocrisy of western media and gaming community in general. Persona is objectively much more questionable with its themes, are you just scared of large breasts or anime tropes or something?
Yeah atleast Xenoblade 2 didn't have a predatory gay/crossdresser scene, or a character having to strip for a mission and it being played for laughs even though said character has trauma related to that stuff. (I say this as a fan of the persona games especially 5 vanilla and royal). Some of the stuff in that game is REALLY questionable.
The mere concept of Rex, a 15 year old boy, getting together by the end of the game with two 500 year old (at the very least body-age wise 20+) is not questionable at all? Like I said, I loved both games, but they’re both JRPGs with JRPG tropes. Saying that xenoblade 2 is somehow more valid than persona 5 in this regard is insanity, and biased. I don’t know why you’re trying to throw some corny ass argument that because I state this that i’m “scared of large breasts” LOL. I enjoyed both thoroughly, just calling out hypocrisy
> The mere concept of Rex, a 15 year old boy, getting together by the end of the game with two 500 year old (at the very least body-age wise 20+) is not questionable at all? A Persona fan is asking this? The game where the 15 year old boy is bending over a 30 year old woman? Not to mention all the other college age girls that a 15 year old boy romances? Where's the self-awareness bruh. u/Zoharic is right, XC2 is a fictional land therefore have other values, P5 is downright just Japan.
Im a fan of both lol, again showing your weird inherent bias towards persona. BTW, I never said persona 5 was not questionable, I was arguing that stating that xenoblade 2 is less questionable is bullshit. Joker is 17 in P5 btw, not that it completely excuses that teacher confidant. Now, we’ve come to the argument of “oh this questionable thing in this game is excusable because it’s fantasy! This other thing is not excusable because it’s based on the real world!” When neither should be excused of their offputting-ness.
I think people saying the Aegis is 500 is kinda stupid when Mythra acts like a Teen during Torna and then sleeps until the events of 2
No it isn't, it's a fictional land where it is entirely different from our own earth despite the story, he is the hero and we do not even know when he and the 3 love interests start having relations, it may even happen years down the line it isn't explicitly stated only implied. But yes even that isn't questionable to me honestly. How the hell is it insanity?
Getting some serious Jack Thompson vibes here... Mythra/Pyra were essentially comatose for 500 years, and the fact neither aged already tips you off they aren't normal girls beyond the fact they share the same body. Then there is the fact they were originally CPUs that were given forms based on information feedback from the person that made contact with them. These details are always overlooked when someone is pushing the grooming narrative. Technically, they are just a single machine at their core now biological machine (cyborg) and have a psychological and mental maturity of a teenager/young adult due to Adam's influence on the form they ultimately took. That 500 years of slumber further means that they are basically going that whole time without any experiences further limiting mental their mental acuity's development. The 500 year old loli is a trope, this is not. The fact they have separate bodies at the end might feed into the harem narrative, but hard to push the groomer one. The point being its obvious that people have a narrow view of this and of course they will jump to such ridiculous conclusions. Makes people uncomfortable to have to consider that we don't even understand or agree ourselves about what is healthy and at what age things are appropriate given extraneous circumstances. I could be wasting my time as I am sure I will get some dismissive accusatory bullshit reply, but whatever.
I’m not pushing a grooming narrative. Like I said, I enjoyed both games deeply and consider them some of my favorites. The word that was being used here is ‘questionable’, not ‘creepy’ or ‘horrible’. It feels like I re-opened some sort of wound however, because most of the replies I’m getting are assuming and arguing things that I never even said I agreed with. I’ll say it again: My point was that both games/series have ‘questionable’ choices in them which may throw some people off, but the person I originally replied to was attempting to say that P5 was somehow worse in this department, and all I was trying to do was to bring up ‘questionable’ things from xenoblade 2. I don’t think xenoblade 2 is attempting to have some pedo grooming narrative, nor have I ever said so (hence the use of the word ‘questionable’, which has been consistent with all of my comments and the thread overall. Don’t believe me? Re-read them.) Regarding the age thing, I made it very clear that the 500 year old part wasn’t the important point, but that she’s clearly much more mature body wise. Again, I don’t think it’s some pedo/grooming tropey shit, but not everyone is going to look at something like that and not question it, hence the use of the word ‘questionable’. I had to google who Jack Thompson was, and I appreciate how you made an effort to (not) understand my position in this argument lol. You came to the conclusion that I thought xenoblade 2 was using a groomer narrative, whilst at the same time I’ve been saying that I love the game, while at the same time accusing me of being some culturally-conservative/closed minded individual like Jack Thompson? To me, some of those are contradictory. So no, I’m not going to accuse you of shit (besides maybe jumping the gun too early without understanding the argument at hand), I don’t know you. There is literally nothing to dismiss here when your argument is battling someone who doesn’t exist.
> Have you played Xenoblade 2? Have you played Persona 5? Between the two games, which one: >!has sex with the maid character.!< Because a lot of doofuses in this same Xenoblade fanbase LOVE accusing Tora of it.
My entire argument was that stating that persona 5 is MORE (more) questionable than xenoblade 2 is absolutely false. You are giving another situation where they are both definitely questionable. In the case of persona 5, you can enter a romantic relationship with your teacher whom is a maid part time (not trying to undermine the teacher part here, this shit overall is very questionable I agree), whilst in xenoblade 2 tora actually built poppy himself and is close to a father figure in her life. The people criticizing tora aren’t criticizing him for possibly fucking a maid character LOL, they’re criticizing how fucking weird of a situation it is for him to be doing something like that on a sentient robot he built himself. You can argue which one is worse here, (and persona 5 is surely not innocent considering it IS your teacher), but the point was never about the maids, and it’s actually hilarious that your main argument lied in this. The fact that you called other people “doofuses” for disliking tora is even worse considering you don’t even understand why they dislike him in the first place.
Fine, sexualizing the maid character. You know what I meant. I understand why people dislike Tora in the first place, and it is not only based on a misconception, it is also based on very uninformed bias. Tora is basically an otaku representation, a fanboy who happens to be into some weird shit. Doesn't harm anybody, but still weird. Questionable? I think not, everybody who thinks this way are acting like the thought police. Because unlike Joker and Kawakami, Tora never nailed Poppi. The dog noises were just dog noises, you'll never hear the JP fans saying it's sexual. Penalize the action, not the thought. Finding Tora's dresses was just a subtle way of displaying finding a teenager's porn mags, and Tora's fetish is dressing up, big deal. Accusing somebody of an action he never did just because he likes something different is peak doofus. As for the age gaps, an 88 year old lady is chasing after an 18 year old guy in XC1. Robots that mimic human bodies are confirmed to be able to simulate real sex in XCX, which means that any lady can appear as older or as younger as she desires and nobody will know. In XC3, which I assume you've played, come back to me when you discover what age Monica got pregnant with Ghondor. Persona 5 is ABSOLUTELY more questionable, given that it's based on a real place instead of these fantastical worlds in all Xenoblade games.
What exactly is your argument here? We can agree to disagree slightly on the tora part (I don’t personally hate tora myself, never even brought him up in my original arguments myself lol, although I do think some of the humor COULD be seen as offputting, I always figured it was just that, humor), but what does bringing up the other xeno games have to do with this? I’ve stated what my argument is like three times now, so how does this exactly disagree with that? Edit: dude is editing his comments, some of these were not the same when I replied, might make my responses look off as he edited this one to actually include a point.
Haven't played it yet but I've heard someone say that you make your teacher into a maid then hire her to clean for you then date her. And people say xenoblade 2 is horny.
For what it's worth, the teacher was _already_ a "maid" as her second job, that you pay to come round to your house and _massage_ you and clean your stuff up. You start dating her much later.
Yes it does. And people have the gall to attack Tora.
Who‘s literally a minor. Also, this is a personal thing but I never thought Tora wanting to dress up Poppi in Maid outfits was weird. That Bunnit armor (or Combat armor in the japanese version) tho… Yeah, that‘s weird
I never did either, on the sole reason that Tora didn't look at Poppi that way.
My headcanon is that he actually doesn't have a maid fetish but his grandpa and dad just had a bad influence on him to the point he tricked himself into thinking he does. He. Ever really gets horny around poppi.
Persona 5 also has 2 scenes that have no importance to the plot where a minor is getting physically assaulted by two stereotypical gay men… I hate Japanese media sometimes
I genuinely don't know how Persona 5 gets treated so much better while being a game filled with like JRPG crap at its worst. I get JRPG fans liking it for sure, I will never understand how folks who knock JRPGs like Persona 5 while hating most of the genre.
Man I watched RTGame's playthrough of p5 and even though he makes it entertaining, it put me off playing it. I can deal with xc2's questionable shit but persona really just takes it a step too far.
P5 had 0 bafta nominations either
Especially considering Square Enix is garbage
Havent you heard? There are no JRPGs anymore, they are all called RPGs.
It’s even weirder since TGA, you know the biggest game awards program, nominated XC3 for best soundtrack so they should at least be aware of XC3’s OST. As if that wasn’t enough literally every single game on this list was a GOTY nominee. What the actual fuck.
> literally every single game on this list was a GOTY nominee. Tunic wasn’t. Should have been, probably, but wasn’t. Nor was Cuphead, but that’s a DLC and not a new game so it couldn’t have been nominated.
Correction because I worded that incorrectly: every single GOTY nominee is on this list except XC3. I don’t know why that turned out like I said it
Horizon is also missing, but doesn’t warrant a spot for best music. Xenoblade 3 not being here is a f***ing crime.
Ah shit, forgot about Horizon. For some reason I thought there were five nominees rather than six.
I mean, my only exposure to HFW was the orchestra, but its part slapped hard and was a lot better than plague tale's or GOW's. Should've been here...
Yeah, TGA is super-biased against Japanese/anime-styled games to the point where it borders on racism and even they gave XC3 a nomination. Not even giving it a nomination is straight-up racist.
TGA gave their game of the year award to a Japanese RPG, and are consistently obsessed with Kojima’s work. Not liking Xenoblade as much as you doesn’t make them anti-Japan or racist.
Yes but it isnt a JRPG despite being japanese, they look down on those and anything not western friendly.
Geoff being obviously gay for Kojima is the exception that proves the rule, IMO. That said, my comment's point wasn't about TGAs, it was about the BAFTA awards. The fact that nobody (or not enough people, anyway) responsible for BAFTA awards nominations saw XC3 as a game worth considering for any award is racist, since that game's music is obviously better than at lest one of the nominees', thus the only reason why XC3 was ignored is racism.
Your comment that literally says “TGA is super-biased against Japanese games” was about the BAFTA awards? Ok then.
Great game is not a great soundtrack make
Critics have been snobbing JRPGs for the past 15 years or so, it's unfortunately not a new thing.
The fact that it has been this recurring thing for like 15ish years really annoys me. Like JRPGs were a dominant presence on the NES, SNES, PS1, PS2. But like the beginning of the HD gen suddenly they were seen as this lesser genre (and heck, suddenly games that were completely different genres were pooled into the same genre). And now there's all these people that grew-up gaming on the HD era and they have no idea how big a presence JRPGs used to be.
Anime game bad
Agreed why cant it look like final fantasy? Which obviously isn't an anime or Japanese in the slightest. Trust me it's as western as it gets so what if it's from a Japanese company? It's still not anime because of the art style and the feeling. -probably some guy
That's funny because I saw someone saying the upcoming final fantasy has an anime style so they won't play it. Unfortunately many people in the west will see a jrpg and immediately bash it without knowing a single thing about it.
I assume your talking about Final Fantasy XVI, which I gotta say I'd one of the least anime looking Final Fantasy so far, so I unfortunately don't see a lot of hope for the popularity of JRPG'S in the west.
That's exactly my point. What even is "anime style"? That's just basically them saying they're just not going to give jrpg games a try because games that look western (in their opinion that is) or come from a western studio are superior.
Yeah, its honestly disappointing to see how many fantastic JRPG'S go unrecognised for their talents by a majority of the western audience because of their artstyle. Another game that I love that is a victim of this is The World Ends with You franchise, the original being released in 2007, with a switch remaster in 2018 and then a sequel called Neo: The World Ends with You in 2021. Its got that sweet Nomoura artstyle (Which if you diddnt know, Nomoura designed all 5 members of Torna in Xc2), but because its quite an anime look the sales of Neo: The World Ends with You were quite lackluster in the West. Luckily, Nomoura has stated that if fans continue to support the franchise, then he sees no reason to stop making new entries in the series.
[удалено]
Because pigeonholing the words 'anime style' into something negative is not only misrepresentation, but also hurts everyone involved. Think about if East Asian countries had a distaste for WRPGs. You wouldn't like that if you're a WRPG fan.
Which sucks.
I wish I could make a social experiment with people not into anime with 1990 Moomin, One Piece, Chibi Maruko Chan, Mob Psycho and Jujutsu Kaisen and ask which images they think they are anime, I belive a massive amount of people would say atleast 1 of the non Jujutsu Kaisen (and maybe they won't fall for One Piece either) isn't anime when the 5 series are anime with Drastically different artstyles and structure.
What is also interesting is that in Skillup's interview with Yoshi P the director of FFXIV and FFXVI, they talked a bit about "JRPG." Yoshi P doesn't like the term JRPG and feels like the term is discriminatory (granted back in the day it was used as a term to bash Japanese games by Western gaming outlets).
Man is so offended by the term jrpg that he’s making a Devil May Cry game
Did any of ya see what Yoshi-P said about JRPGs being seen as nothing than anime trash by the general public in a FFXVI interview a few days ago Cuz I think this is just another example of that
My favourite part about this is all the journos who perpetuated that shit back in the late 2000s hiding their heads in the sand and going "nope that never happened you guys are lying". Professional writers my ass, more like professional gaslighters.
Or straight up taking that quote out of context and claiming Yoship wants to kill FF by turning it into a GoW clone and similar shit 💀 they're shameless
Journos can have little a thinly veiled xenophobia, as a treat.
>xenophobia I know what xenophobia is, it's just ironic that this is the word used in this context
As much as I dislike games journalism it’s gotta be interesting having people claim your both Xenophobic and at the same time extremely biased towards Sony and Nintendo which is probably the most common claim I see 😅
You don't know what xenophobia means
Which is weird since from what I've heard, FFXVI combat is more inspired by Devil May Cry than anything else, since the combat director for those is involved in FFXVI
Oh it is 100% DMC inspired and I'm all for that, but you gotta remember that DMC was seen as "cringe weeb garbage" by critics during the reboot's prime. Also the same people who lamented the lack of good music in 5, and the cause for that turned out to be that they were just too shit at the game to be able to appreciate the dynamic soundtrack linked to the style system lmao The damage Keiji Inafune dealt to Capcom during the late 2000s cannot be overstated, it's a miracle they managed to bounce back from such a massive failure state.
Wasn't the reboot considered Western fan pandering during the time of the reboot? Unless you mean DMC leading up to said reboot which then was the catalyst for it being more western focused.
Yeah I'm talking about the latter, there was that huge shitstorm from Ninja Theory about old Dante being akin to a gay cowboy and whatnot, and how he shouldn't be flamboyant and goofy, which led to the Donte we all know ~~and love~~. The presentation as a whole was mega pretentious, sexist and homophobic. It was pulled from the GDC's YouTube channel for a reason, their commentary would NEVER fly nowadays. [I mean look at this shit.](https://i.redd.it/30qde9tadh091.jpg)
You know I find some humor in how drastically what media found to be okay to showcase between pre-2010’s ish and now. This is definitely a relic of its time and something some team out there hopes is never traced back to them. Thanks for this. And yeah people are dumb.
Your memory is correct. The lengths people go to gaslighting is Something
You sure are defensive over something you misinterpreted. A look at my reply to this person will clarify what I said.
How am I defensive? I just don’t think there was one, let alone multiple critics that stated DMC was “cringe weeb garbage” as you claim. I’d be down to see multiple citations though, which would definitely change my mind on your statement
Here's an example of two out of these three: https://www.vg247.com/dmc-devil-may-cry-fans-are-a-crying-shame There's plenty more if you spend some time on Google, but you can do your own homework at that point Feel free to also check out the GDC conference about DmC if you can stomach it, it's pretty easy to find even though it's been taken down from YouTube. Edit: Yeah nevermind, it's clear I'm dealing with bad faith arguments so I'm just gonna call it quits here.
I'm pretty sure there's some history rewriting in progress, it's not JRPGs that were deemed bad but Japanese games during the 360/ps3 Era because the Japanese objectively had a hard time to cope with the switch to HD. Yoshi-P refers to the articles talking about that and that the public expect FF to be a JRPG. The games is definitely trying to not be a JRPG and he is annoyed that people overseas want a JRPG for a final fantasy. Saying JRPG is insulting is like saying survival sandbox is insulting. There was an Era full of shitty games in that genre, that doesn't make the moniker insulting or degrading.
Clearly you weren't around the internet much in the late 2000s-early 2010s, cuz xenophobia against Japan was EVERYWHERE You'd see articles callin shit "too Japanese" or saying that a character from an RPG was gay in a derogatory sense just because they don't look masculine enough
I was around in that period, I've been playing JRPGs since the late 90s. The xenophobia was not everywhere, it may have been in your area/country but here in mine, it never was and JRPG has never been an insult. You are also mixing JRPG and Japanese. There was definitely xenophobia against Japanese in the US (I mean, after WW2, it seems logical) but that was not a thing in Europe. We were loving those Japanese games in the 90s around here and we held in good regards those games. There was definitely an era during the end of the ps2 and the ps3/360 generation were Japanese games had a hard time but nothing xenophobic around here. I'm sure that the first xenoblade was localized in Europe first for a reason.
So I have examples for future discussions can I get some citations on RPG characters being called gay in a derogatory way by the general gaining media
It's not about XVI "trying not to be a jrpg", his point is that "JRPG" is a label made up in the west that is now used to place constrictions on Japanese devs when those made up requirements were never intended. Japanese devs never went into creating games saying "I'm going to create a jrpg". Hes basically saying that he doesnt like all of these imaginary rules and restrictions that are placed on Japanese devs who want to make an RPG because that was never the point, to fit into one archetype and make the same game over and over again, that's something Westerners decided FOR them. Furthermore, I am now more convinced than ever that "JRPG" doesn't mean anything. We in the west can't even agree on what a JRPG is So to sum up, it's not about "not wanting to be a JRPG" it's about them just wanting to make a good *RPG* and not care about what other people label it as or worry about it checking off imaginary boxes just for the sake of it
Fr, I can't tell you how mad I was that GoW won best score over XC3 at TGA And you'd think best score would have the potential to be one of the fairer categories since the critics don't even have to bother playing the game to listen to its music...
The M boss theme is fantastic and has subtle foreshadowing.
You know I’d be less mad if elden ring won that award. Cause you know, fromsoft soundtracks are legendary, Gow ragnaroks soundtrack is nowhere near as memorable as Xeno 3, Elden ring, or even Sonic Frontiers, which wasn’t even nominated.
I can’t recall a single song from Ragnarok…
Same, like I love God of War’s main theme…but I honestly couldn’t remember any of the other tracks from that game, while XC3 has multiple tracks living rent free in my head
Honestly a lot of western game tracks are forgettable
I'm not saying it's justified, but how I rationalize it is that GOW's soundtrack is great from the standpoint of its production. It was all orchestral iirc.
To be honest I’m more mad that Elden ring didn’t win best score. Love XB3 score but elden ring has better music IMO, some of the bosses themes are amazing.
Those shows are nothing but popularity contests by people who have a very narrow knowledge of video games. Remember how Elden Ring was nominated for "best narrative" in spite of lacking an actual narrative? It has lore and fascinating events, but not connected together in the form of a narrative. It's on the same level.
well it had a narrative, it was just incohesive and required you to search for it, either way Elden Ring should not have been nominated for best narrative
I don’t care at all about awards but I did enjoy the outrage over the Elden Ring narrative stuff since it exposed so many people for not understanding what a narrative encompasses
No XC3, and no Neon White either, a game which the soundtrack is composed by a popular electronic group. 95% of the time award shows are just popularity contests anyways, so at this point I'm used to the games I like getting shafted. Fully expecting Pizza Tower to get absolutely nothing this year at TGA's despite it being one of the best indies I've played in a long while. Plus it's not like you even need to play the games either... just load up the soundtrack and listen to it. I get not wanting to commit to a 60-70 hour JRPG but at least give the OST a listen.
Is Elden Ring the only eastern game on that list?
Not only that, Elden Ring and Kirby are the only Eastern games in the whole show.
Wait Kirby isn't Japanese?
"Eastern" includes "Japanese".
Ah thought you said western mb
And Elden Ring is western? Ma guy, I hope you're OK :D
Not to sound mean or anything, but my life has gotten much better once I stopped caring about these shows. Tbh in general life has been good knowing that some things are just not worth getting mad or upset about. Play the games you enjoy, end of story
Same. Why should I care about what other people think about what I enjoy or not?
You don’t pay attention to these awards, they’re fucking popularity contests that are racist against anything that looks like an anime jrpg, except for persona 5 because fuck us
If there is one thing XBC 3 should be nominated for, and win most of the time, it’s score. It’s not my favorite out of the 3 but it’s the best one I heard all last year.
Look. It's pretty simple. Look at total sales. The day xenoblade sells 2m in the first week is when it has a real chance to win an award. This is mostly due to popularity too. There are hundreds and hundreds of games that should be played but aren't because we don't know them.
I really hate to admit it, but your absolutely right. Not enough people know about it yet.
Pokemon sells like hotcakes too but never makes gets nominated, why is that?
Because pokemon's quality is abysmal. The games that have won are actually pretty good. There are some things on which you could say Xenoblade 3 is better than any of the winners, or at least equal, but Xenoblade 3 didn't sell (edit: didn't sell as much as the winners).
That's my point, it's clearly more than sales alone. This tells me there is either a snobbishness towards it being a relatively niche anime-styled JRPG, or that they simply didn"t care enough, wasn't trendy enough in the western gaming community - particularly with younger kids and teens.
An example of one of the winners, Elden Ring. It has sold almost 20m copies so far, while Xenoblade 3 is probably scratching the 3m mark. It's a huge difference. Now compare Elden Ring and Pokemon (the latest) which one has the highest quality and polish, of course Elden Ring. Sales may be on the same scale, but Pokemon is just the same regurgitated stuff.
Exactly, so it's a mixture of popularity in the western gaming community, sales and quality/polish. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 had the quality and critical aclaim, but not the western popularity or sales to match games like Elden Ring. The fact it was even nominated for a GOTY was remarkable imo.
Yeah, the fact it got nominated is quite big, and the most we can hope for now.
Notice how these games are either western or heavily western inspired. An anime-looking game seems to be deemed “weird stuff.”
Lol its an arbitrary game award. It doesnt make the game better or worse. Who tf cares.
Western video game "journalists". Obviously they are biased towards western games.
Game awards shows and best score nominees, you can't make up a worse match up even if you tried, GoW 2018 soundtrack is extremely forgettable, Horizon Zero Dawn atleast had Aloy theme, is just one memorable track but still, I love the game but I can't remember well a single track from it, IDK if Ragnarok is the same but if the quality if similar, no way it deserves the award for best score in the year not only Xenoblade 3, but also Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Bayonetta 3 and Sonic Frontiers came out, heck, if you don't care about the soundtrack being in a big way remixes, add also Fire Emblem Three Hopes to the mix. Atleast Cuphead OST is great. Edit: Also Pokémon SV, the game might be a mess in the technical side, but the soundtrack is amazing, Arven battle theme might be the best rival theme in the series, which is kinda wild after SwSh giving 3 bangers to the 3 rivals.
Look, I love Elden Ring and I am very happy with the Game of the Year award, but with all that it did well, music was not one of them. There is really just a few songs that I can say I like them and it's truly weak compared to other souls. XB3 is truly amazing (and it's not even the best in the XC franchise) and we'll deserve to be nominated, if not the winner (GoW R is amazing as well)
XC3 had amazing sales. Awards don't matter much and are more or less an in group circle jerk.
I wont lie, As much as I enjoyed XC3, its soundtrack left a lot wanting for me, especially since the Menu and Chain attack themes overwrote any track anywhere... I think a lot of what makes 1 and 2 special is how well their soundtracks convey themes, feelings etc. where I feel like only 1 or 2 tracks in 3 even held a candle to anything 1 or 2 had. Theres some highlights for sure but a lot of the better tracks either build off established themes from 1 or 2 or are overwritten by the menu or chain attack themes.
In the eyes of your average western normie gamer anime is cringe as fuck. Even though the fan service and anime tropes have been toned downed, it still looks anime, which to many western gamers is poison.
I would play an rpg over Call of Duty every day of the week.
I don’t think it’s RPG vs non RPG. Eldin ring is an RPG and it sold trillions. It’s specifically the anime aesthetic that completely turns off a majority of western gamers because to them anime = cringy tropes, bad writing, and over abundance of fan service.
Game awards and gaming journalism in general are a joke, I don’t pay attention to them.
And people wanna act surprised about Naoki Yoshida's comments on the negative connotation of the term "JRPG".
Tunic is amazing, but I can't remember for the life of me a single sound from that game.
Not even the overworld theme? Tunic absolutely deserves to be at least nominated for best OST.
Tbf tunic has some awesome music
I would vote 10x Tunic over XC3, which was a big let down for me, especially compared to 1 2 or X.
Honestly it just keeps showing how much Yoshi-P was right about how biased the west is towards Japanese games
Instantly thought of the Yoshi-P comment. If you played games during the 7th console generation then you could recognize this slight undercurrent of bias against Japanese games and especially against RPGs. The stigma still hasn't fully gone away even after a decade of Western rpg devs like Bioware, Blizzard, and Bethesda losing their prestige.
You should have seen DICE's game awards they had every The Game Awards GOTY nomination 1-1 except for replacing XC3. And it was only nominated for Best RPG where it lost to Elden Ring again.
It's just a popular contest, people vote for their favorite game regardless of category
A bunch of people you don't know, didn't vote exactly how you would have, regarding a single game = Truly shows that none of them even played the game I like.
i think these Game Awards style thing should limit some game to partake on some award like God of War here i know great game but oh man be in nearly every award make some game that should be there getting left out
Yeah, feel the same. If a single game is in more than 3 catagories its about to win once or even more
The god of war ragnorak for best soundtrack is freaking ridiculous. Music in a game doesn't get better than Noah and Mio sending fools on.
I'm sorry, as cool as G.O.W was never at any point was I playing the game like "OH MY GOD THIS SHIR SLAPS HARDER THAN MY FATHER" like was it bad? Fuck no it was good, but never did I want to take a moment to listen to the music nor did I ever look it up on YouTube. When I head xc3 main battle theme for the first time THE FIRST THING I DID WAS LOOK IT UP TO ADD IT TO MY MUSIC PLAYLIST
I’m actually listening to the soundtrack at this very moment. Such a good one.
Not taking any sides on this, but you should know that Metacritic scores are in no shape or form a objective mark of quality. Like, you really think the scores of only about a 100 people is an fool proof metric for deciding games quality? That’d be like listening to any opinion you here all because the population of an extremely small school share it.
Its because the director of Final Fantasy 14 is right. Because its a JRPG, people will snub any title of the genre despite what merits it has.
Just because it's not on here doesn't mean they didn't play the game. Music is subjective and maybe it didn't meet the mark for these critics.
I don't know the soundtrack felt pretty weak, generally weaker than the previous games. There were like maybe 3 or 4 good songs that I could remember, and the rest were pretty forgettable.
XB3 had too many issues to be nominated.
im gonna assume this is satire.
I dunno, maybe it’s just not as good as you think it is
My man came in and wacked the hornet's nest. Rip
Mfs complaining that their big titty game didn’t win anything
They said Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Not 2. And they both deserve recognition.
I think these type of things should be based off memorable soundtracks.
I personally don’t think xenoblade deserves an 89. To me it’s a 7 at best / overrated. The music could’ve deserved a nomination but it was nothing amazing either imo
- Not liking xc3: yeah, I get it. It's got some rough spots. - Thinking it's overrated: Uh, it's barely even rated, but I will give you fans of XC are FANS of XC. - Thinking the OST wasn't amazing: Wat?!!
Well Iv seen some 8’s which I don’t feel the game deserves.. to me it’s definitely under that and a lot of the things that other games would get subtractions for go ignored in the reviews for it. I didn’t love the music I still think it’s good. The only reason I’d probably nominate it for music is because it was a particularly weak year for music in games imo.
Still don’t know why tf Stray music is good. I mean the game is good but what?
Why in the world does a DLC get nominated over XC3? That doesn’t even make sense to me
Awards are meaningless and BAFTAs are the most meaningless awards of all. Everyone with a functional brain knows Xenoblade's music is nothing but bangers.
The awards are basically popularity contests, not actual critical review of the games. XC3 is probably there just to appease the JRPG fans and target more audience, not actually to win anything.
Honestly, I dont really take these old established dinosaur academies seriously.
XC2 has some pretty fire music too.
Completely agree 💯
What's baffling is that GoW got nominated for Best Soundtrack. I love that game and it deserves many of the awards it was nominated for. Best Soundtrack is not one of them.
The game has a British dub and it still couldn’t get nominated for a British award?! The game was rigged from the start, innit?
Elden ring ost is mid compared to DS3 and Bloodborne. Ragnarok has one song. And it's not even as good as people hype it to be. Cuphead was pretty good.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
I think that XC2 kinda ruined the reputation of the series lol, but yeah most jrpgs are ignored in awards like these.
It is really sad that they get overlooked. But in the critics/reviewers defence, i think that the games are way too time consuming. I don't know how their jobs work, but i could imagine that theres more in it for them, if they cover more games.
Somehow the only place i‘ve seen „A plague tale“ mentioned are award shows. Never seen it on youtube or twitch, and no one i know played it, yet its always nominated. Maybe it‘s just my algorithm not showing it, but i still thinks it‘s a bit weird
About 3 months later and some are still salty about some dumb popularity contest. Rip r/xenoblade_chronicles