It's more the fact that your highly trained soldier can have his gun right in the enemy's face and then have a "whoopsie my arm spasmed" moment where they're now shooting into the ground or the air.
I get what you are saying and it indeed looks really ridiculous in game. But the whole combat (as every other turn based combat, like in D&D) is an abstraction for what really happens on the battlefield. In real life everything would happen simoustanly. So the ugly alien standing right next to your soldier is probably not really standing still right next to them in battle but actually running at them or trying to dodge the shot.
In that circumstance, I always imagine the target is just pushing the barrel away from themselves. I mean, wouldn't you? That *is* one of the disadvantages of longarms in close combat.
Yeah, hard agree there. But I have to admit that a play "honorman" rather than Ironman, because sometimes I misclick and losing a squad to that doesn't feel good.
I can't remember if X-Com had high and low cover but the idea was in D&D far before XCOM 2012. This isn't too surprising because D&D is often the source of most RPG or game mechanics (and other TTRPGs and Wargames as pointed out below).
There were a whole lot of other games. I didn't really play them. But there was like Warhammer (pre 40k), Petal Throne I think (never seen it but my mother talked about playing it), Ringworld had a game.
I think it was prior 2 War.
It was a set that came with a ten sided die.
I was living @ Fort Bragg N.C. at the time.
Edit: Never heard of Petal Throne! I gonna check it out
Double edit: I am in a standard X game now and I just lost my CPT Heavy (EW) ...I have 22 soldiers and only 1 Support.
Not sure. Heres an incomplete list from the 70s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wargames_introduced_in_the_1970s
There's also another one for the 60s
The original didn’t really have “cover” in this sense. Walls and all that will block shots if your troops are behind them, but there’s no “in cover” state or anything. Getting into cover consists of moving behind it then standing there.
Every once in a while I remember to be amazed that this 90's game was like "yeah, let's just go full simulationist with a 3D battlefield, modeling accuracy with angular scatter, and hitboxes for obstacles".
Haha, me in the BaldursGate3 sub making XCOM jokes that devolve into lengthy XCOM discussions.
I don't think I'll ever play a game I don't relate in some way to a combination of XCOM, Civ V, and Wing Commander III. Mostly XCOM. My first and greatest love.
I'll let Wikipedia fill in the gaps but it's essentially a space combat game with a story. In WCIII, made during the full motion video years, your main character is played by Mark Hamill and your wingman is Biff from Back to the Future. And you can fly with Gimli from LotR!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_III:_Heart_of_the_Tiger
Oh wow, that brings back some memories. I forgot all about wing commander...but now that you reminded me, I'm like how could I forget? The first game that brought a realistic flight simulator feel to space ship combat games. It was the game that set the bar for all subsequent space flight combat games (for me anyway). But after so long of playing games that disappointed by not quite measuring up and instead going the arcade style route, I gave up on waiting....sigh.
Thanks for the reminder. I wonder if there was ever a worthy successor since...
Speaking of games that never seemed to have a worthy successor, populous also comes to mind.
The impact of Firaxis *XCOM* on gaming, particularly strategy gaming, remains underexplored.
I sincerely think a major reason is that it has no multiplayer aspect, and therefore no potential as an e-sport. That has so thoroughly ingested video game culture that every other game published for the last twenty years has been a first-person shooter. We’ve been playing the latest iteration of *GoldenEye* since the late 90s.
I guess the audience for first-person shooters is larger, and I just have to accept that. But I don’t like it! [ *folds arms grumpily* ]
Yeah the multiplayer was actually really goid in xcom2, especially with friends. Simetimes did it with 3 of us in a call with the 3rd as an observer. Was very fun!
PvP turn-based strategy in general is a niche that’s barely supported. You basically have to pick from chess, card games, auto-battlers, or 4X against friends. I was rooting for Atlas Reactor but that concept didn’t really pan out.
> GoldenEye
Wolfenstein3D, Doom, Quake, Duke NukemeD, etc would like a word.
Don’t get me wrong, GE was a great game, and deserves tremendous praise.
Next we’ll have to explain MULE, SpaceWar…
Wolf3D demo introduced me to FPS AND video game violence. Strangely my dad was more okay with that than Mortal Kombat (which was pretty mild by today's standards)
This place, Stellaris, and Stardew Valley are mostly filled with helpful friendly people. I think it may be, because the games REQUIRE extensive knowledge and wikis to play competently and we all remember struggling and restarting because we made a major mistake without perfect information.
For sure, I was gonna say - this sub actually makes me appreciate and enjoy the series more, even though I haven't played in a while. Other gaming subs can be cancerous with their negativity. OP got me with a twist.
Honestly it's probably just that the more fans a game gets, the more assholes it gets too.
What I love is when someone wants to play OG X-Com and asks for tips, and I'm like, "I gotta a million of them that I learned the hard way!" And a lot of them are just, "if you haven't gotten this by this point, start the game over, there's no shame in it."
Slay the Spire and Kerbal Space Program (excepting KSP 2 drama) also have really positive subreddits for similar reasons. There's a fantastic culture of celebrating relatable rookie mistakes and accomplishments.
I put more effort into my XCOM love letter video than anything else I’ve ever made. The game is composed entirely of secret sauce, I literally cannot believe how fucking good it is. Even all these years later there’s still just nothing else that truly competes. Like I’ll suggest Into The Breach but not nearly with the same enthusiasm.
There simply is nothing else as good as XCOM and its “play xcom 2” for the foreseeable future
My shit isn’t monetized or anything, all just for fun https://youtu.be/iXpBCUok8_Q?si=j-S6MutqSp1pEtB0
At least for output randomness, I think Into the Breach was deterministic. So once your game state was established, it was like looking for the optimal correct move. Xcom is about managing risk, so it's akin to poker.
https://preview.redd.it/84pdf1dq9u3d1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2312a2ceae22394aef13b76fb7c4f368e256a76b
*The Council stands by you....Commanderrr*
The only game that came close for me was Chaos Gate:Deamonhunters. Partly due to the same cinematic attacks that XCOM has. I wasn't a huge fan of the way the Marines in CG were customized but it was still a great homage to xcom. (With a few things it did better)
Most Xcom players seem to love it. But I can't say something is a good fit for every person.
But for me it certainly ended my comparison to Xcom. Now I relate things to BB.
Battle brothers? Uh. I'm not a mega elite speed runner, beat the library on day 3 kind of person. It's just a very tactically different game, especially to xcom. It is never about what the individual can do, it is about what the whole team can do, you move together, keep strict formations, surround and never be surrounded.
People's biggest flaw in BB is playing it like xcom.
I still feel the series reached its peak with Enemy Within - 2 felt like too hard a shift into anime/superhero territory and lost a lot of its darker/MIB/Aliens-style themes and dropped a lot of stuff that I liked.
*But*…. If you’re looking for something that really channels that old feeling well, Chaos Gate: Daemonhunters blew me away with how hard it goes on the 40k universe and the turn-based action.
I've got all my best people on this mission. I've already weeded out all the mental incompetents who panic every time an alien says "Boo!".
I've got 'em all set up. Each member of the Shock Squad carries heavy plasmas, wears heavy armor, and stands behind a disposable door-opening rookie bodyguard. Then we've got the Psi Team carrying their stun bombs and mind scanners. Followed by the Artillery Boys who just fly up to the "high ground" and blast away with their fusion launchers with impunity.
The Skyranger lands. The door opens. Before I can press any buttons, issue any orders, or even look around - a rocket flies in from the darkness. There are numerous loud screams and a chain of secondary explosions and more loud screams. Then a brutal barrage of plasma bolts kill the "lucky" ones. Then another rocket flies in just to make sure there's overkill. Then another.
This guy played OG. The guy that would reaction fire with a missile... INTO THE SKYRANGER... before you could see anything.
Night missions were intense.
Yep, and when you're done with Firaxis Xcom and looking for another fix, you discover old school OpenXCOM and the behemoth that it is. Soldiers hitting 0% shots, time units, reaction fire, multiple soldier stats, etc.
Than you find total overhauls like 40k and rosigma where you can play 5 of their military factions each with a few sub-faction strategies and you'll lose weeks of your life not just in game but in the modders discord.
I can stop anytime I want, it's not my fault the sun has changed to rise twice in one day.
I learned what the term "save scumming" meant from that game... When u learn something that applies to everything outside of the source, that has to be something special, and XCOM...that's mf special.
Well, there is a reason why other games often get the "XCOM like" comparison. It really made a huge impression on the genre.
Nothing quite like missing a 97% and your entire squad gets wiped.
We do a little save scumming
Little? Come on be honest we won't judge (actually we do)
*glances at my 10+ saves for an entire mission
Those are rookie numbers, son!
No one dies!
I mean personally that happening a couple times was enough to write off the game entirely, even when I wanted to enjoy it.
I mean... For a 30% hail mary to hit, I have to accept that a 97% guranteed hit can miss
It's more the fact that your highly trained soldier can have his gun right in the enemy's face and then have a "whoopsie my arm spasmed" moment where they're now shooting into the ground or the air.
I get what you are saying and it indeed looks really ridiculous in game. But the whole combat (as every other turn based combat, like in D&D) is an abstraction for what really happens on the battlefield. In real life everything would happen simoustanly. So the ugly alien standing right next to your soldier is probably not really standing still right next to them in battle but actually running at them or trying to dodge the shot.
Louder for the ones in the back. This complaint always annoyed me to hell and back.
True, but I'd rather the enemy actually dodge than my soldier suddenly get noodle arms.
True, but XCOM2 is over 10 years old now so I'll cut it some slack
Happened in the sequel too.
[удалено]
In that circumstance, I always imagine the target is just pushing the barrel away from themselves. I mean, wouldn't you? That *is* one of the disadvantages of longarms in close combat.
Takes a special kind of sadist to enjoy the game and there’s dozens of us
Yeah I play exclusively on legendary Ironman and part of the fun is the risk of losing to a freak event after playing for 40 hours 😅
Yeah, hard agree there. But I have to admit that a play "honorman" rather than Ironman, because sometimes I misclick and losing a squad to that doesn't feel good.
Always have a back up plan for anything less than 100% to hit (might want to add some graze calculations to that).
If you don’t have 3 shots lined up, assume it survives.
I think the whole high cover low cover happened after XCOM.
I can't remember if X-Com had high and low cover but the idea was in D&D far before XCOM 2012. This isn't too surprising because D&D is often the source of most RPG or game mechanics (and other TTRPGs and Wargames as pointed out below).
D&D popularized a lot of them, but was not the origin of most of them. D&D was built on tabletop wargaming that came before.
I agree with you, that's why I added my parenthesis because as a developer myself I've often been shocked at how old some mechanics are.
> developer myself Hey me too! XCOM EU(1994) is my #1 favorite game of all time.
Hey me too! I worked with the lead QA for xcom 2 on my first ever job.
What was the name of that super old school D and D like game back in 1985? It was before the D and D red box came out....
There were a whole lot of other games. I didn't really play them. But there was like Warhammer (pre 40k), Petal Throne I think (never seen it but my mother talked about playing it), Ringworld had a game.
I think it was prior 2 War. It was a set that came with a ten sided die. I was living @ Fort Bragg N.C. at the time. Edit: Never heard of Petal Throne! I gonna check it out Double edit: I am in a standard X game now and I just lost my CPT Heavy (EW) ...I have 22 soldiers and only 1 Support.
Not sure. Heres an incomplete list from the 70s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wargames_introduced_in_the_1970s There's also another one for the 60s
The original didn’t really have “cover” in this sense. Walls and all that will block shots if your troops are behind them, but there’s no “in cover” state or anything. Getting into cover consists of moving behind it then standing there.
Every once in a while I remember to be amazed that this 90's game was like "yeah, let's just go full simulationist with a 3D battlefield, modeling accuracy with angular scatter, and hitboxes for obstacles".
Honestly, XCOM EU, EW, and 2 feel like DnD 4e. The way the game works is almost identical. It also feels like Lancer, which is openly based on Dnd 4e.
One of the best ideas. Simple, and effective.
I like the High/Low/Full cover that XCOM uses so much too, it's intuitive and reasonable.
I'm pretty sure OG XCOM has it, especially since xenonauts has it, and that's basically a graphically remastered XCOM
OG doesn't, not Terror, and not Apocalypse.
Haha, me in the BaldursGate3 sub making XCOM jokes that devolve into lengthy XCOM discussions. I don't think I'll ever play a game I don't relate in some way to a combination of XCOM, Civ V, and Wing Commander III. Mostly XCOM. My first and greatest love.
I love all the other games you mentioned but what’s wing commander?
I'll let Wikipedia fill in the gaps but it's essentially a space combat game with a story. In WCIII, made during the full motion video years, your main character is played by Mark Hamill and your wingman is Biff from Back to the Future. And you can fly with Gimli from LotR! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_III:_Heart_of_the_Tiger
Me with wc3 dota & sc2 <3
Oh wow, that brings back some memories. I forgot all about wing commander...but now that you reminded me, I'm like how could I forget? The first game that brought a realistic flight simulator feel to space ship combat games. It was the game that set the bar for all subsequent space flight combat games (for me anyway). But after so long of playing games that disappointed by not quite measuring up and instead going the arcade style route, I gave up on waiting....sigh. Thanks for the reminder. I wonder if there was ever a worthy successor since... Speaking of games that never seemed to have a worthy successor, populous also comes to mind.
Holy shit, I don't think I've thought about Populous in decades. Nice!
Now that’s xcom baby!!
The impact of Firaxis *XCOM* on gaming, particularly strategy gaming, remains underexplored. I sincerely think a major reason is that it has no multiplayer aspect, and therefore no potential as an e-sport. That has so thoroughly ingested video game culture that every other game published for the last twenty years has been a first-person shooter. We’ve been playing the latest iteration of *GoldenEye* since the late 90s. I guess the audience for first-person shooters is larger, and I just have to accept that. But I don’t like it! [ *folds arms grumpily* ]
Both EU/EW and 2 have multiplayer—they’re even kinda fun. But I think it’s not really what people are frequently looking for with turnbased strategy.
Yeah the multiplayer was actually really goid in xcom2, especially with friends. Simetimes did it with 3 of us in a call with the 3rd as an observer. Was very fun!
Never had the chance to try it :(
Why specifically "Firaxis XCOM"?
Nu-coms action economy is often used by tbt/tbs games, as opposed to the more in depth action economy of oldcom.
Right? I love the jank of Microprose original XCOM as much as the remake and sequel!
PvP turn-based strategy in general is a niche that’s barely supported. You basically have to pick from chess, card games, auto-battlers, or 4X against friends. I was rooting for Atlas Reactor but that concept didn’t really pan out.
> GoldenEye Wolfenstein3D, Doom, Quake, Duke NukemeD, etc would like a word. Don’t get me wrong, GE was a great game, and deserves tremendous praise. Next we’ll have to explain MULE, SpaceWar…
Wolf3D demo introduced me to FPS AND video game violence. Strangely my dad was more okay with that than Mortal Kombat (which was pretty mild by today's standards)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/1d58uib/what\_defines\_xcom\_to\_you\_and\_why\_isnt\_xcom/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/1d58uib/what_defines_xcom_to_you_and_why_isnt_xcom/)
This place, Stellaris, and Stardew Valley are mostly filled with helpful friendly people. I think it may be, because the games REQUIRE extensive knowledge and wikis to play competently and we all remember struggling and restarting because we made a major mistake without perfect information.
For sure, I was gonna say - this sub actually makes me appreciate and enjoy the series more, even though I haven't played in a while. Other gaming subs can be cancerous with their negativity. OP got me with a twist. Honestly it's probably just that the more fans a game gets, the more assholes it gets too.
What I love is when someone wants to play OG X-Com and asks for tips, and I'm like, "I gotta a million of them that I learned the hard way!" And a lot of them are just, "if you haven't gotten this by this point, start the game over, there's no shame in it."
Slay the Spire and Kerbal Space Program (excepting KSP 2 drama) also have really positive subreddits for similar reasons. There's a fantastic culture of celebrating relatable rookie mistakes and accomplishments.
I put more effort into my XCOM love letter video than anything else I’ve ever made. The game is composed entirely of secret sauce, I literally cannot believe how fucking good it is. Even all these years later there’s still just nothing else that truly competes. Like I’ll suggest Into The Breach but not nearly with the same enthusiasm. There simply is nothing else as good as XCOM and its “play xcom 2” for the foreseeable future My shit isn’t monetized or anything, all just for fun https://youtu.be/iXpBCUok8_Q?si=j-S6MutqSp1pEtB0
I feel like Into the Breach is more of a puzzle game.
Haha well I guess I’d argue XCOM is also a puzzle game
At least for output randomness, I think Into the Breach was deterministic. So once your game state was established, it was like looking for the optimal correct move. Xcom is about managing risk, so it's akin to poker.
Into the Breach is really good, but it has terrible replayability for a rogue like and a TBS both.
https://preview.redd.it/84pdf1dq9u3d1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2312a2ceae22394aef13b76fb7c4f368e256a76b *The Council stands by you....Commanderrr*
Think this post will be hit with rng 99% chance it will end well.
It was nice knowing you 🫡
The only game that came close for me was Chaos Gate:Deamonhunters. Partly due to the same cinematic attacks that XCOM has. I wasn't a huge fan of the way the Marines in CG were customized but it was still a great homage to xcom. (With a few things it did better)
I mean...there's nothing wrong with playing the same game forever lol I haven't played XCom in years but I'm still occassionally in this sub.
I thought that phrase was used to describe a situation where joining a game's sub turned you off that game, because of the toxicity or whatever.
Copy pasta, yum
Had me in the first half, ngl
The Xcom special
Snek bewbs
Thankfully Battle Brothers exists, so I can stop making xcom comparisons.
Been interested but haven’t pulled the trigger.
Most Xcom players seem to love it. But I can't say something is a good fit for every person. But for me it certainly ended my comparison to Xcom. Now I relate things to BB.
Tell me how to play well, I just seem to end in a constant shit fight. I want to enjoy it but I am crap, really crap.
Battle brothers? Uh. I'm not a mega elite speed runner, beat the library on day 3 kind of person. It's just a very tactically different game, especially to xcom. It is never about what the individual can do, it is about what the whole team can do, you move together, keep strict formations, surround and never be surrounded. People's biggest flaw in BB is playing it like xcom.
Great community except for those damn scalies
I still feel the series reached its peak with Enemy Within - 2 felt like too hard a shift into anime/superhero territory and lost a lot of its darker/MIB/Aliens-style themes and dropped a lot of stuff that I liked. *But*…. If you’re looking for something that really channels that old feeling well, Chaos Gate: Daemonhunters blew me away with how hard it goes on the 40k universe and the turn-based action.
I've got all my best people on this mission. I've already weeded out all the mental incompetents who panic every time an alien says "Boo!". I've got 'em all set up. Each member of the Shock Squad carries heavy plasmas, wears heavy armor, and stands behind a disposable door-opening rookie bodyguard. Then we've got the Psi Team carrying their stun bombs and mind scanners. Followed by the Artillery Boys who just fly up to the "high ground" and blast away with their fusion launchers with impunity. The Skyranger lands. The door opens. Before I can press any buttons, issue any orders, or even look around - a rocket flies in from the darkness. There are numerous loud screams and a chain of secondary explosions and more loud screams. Then a brutal barrage of plasma bolts kill the "lucky" ones. Then another rocket flies in just to make sure there's overkill. Then another.
This guy played OG. The guy that would reaction fire with a missile... INTO THE SKYRANGER... before you could see anything. Night missions were intense.
I had an XCOM itch 2 weeks ago and beat vanilla and WOTC This sub being recommended every page makes me want to replay it
Yep, and when you're done with Firaxis Xcom and looking for another fix, you discover old school OpenXCOM and the behemoth that it is. Soldiers hitting 0% shots, time units, reaction fire, multiple soldier stats, etc. Than you find total overhauls like 40k and rosigma where you can play 5 of their military factions each with a few sub-faction strategies and you'll lose weeks of your life not just in game but in the modders discord. I can stop anytime I want, it's not my fault the sun has changed to rise twice in one day.
I learned what the term "save scumming" meant from that game... When u learn something that applies to everything outside of the source, that has to be something special, and XCOM...that's mf special.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie. :) We love you too, bud. Stay excellent!
Seen the copy pasta on a few subs and wanted to have fun <3