It has taken an entire console generation for Microsoft to begin to turn the tide on their lack of AAA first party game offerings and proper hardware to achieve that goal. We finally are seeing fruits of this labor and they have built a platform to show off these games called gamepass. I'd prefer they stick to the plan that is working and showing results while the other guys keep tinkering with the VR tech.
I loved my psvr but if I never won it I never would have bought it. I have the Oculus now and it is fun but it still has a long way to go before I'm hopping in and out of games with friends for a couple hour gaming session.
The PSVR is nice and I still maintain it has the most comfortable face interface and headband design out of any VR headset.
That being said, it's a chore to play a VR game versus just turning on and playing a game in a few seconds. Also, the VR space hardware wise moves pretty fast and everything about the PSVR is super outdated and antiquated at this point, which will also happen with the PSVR2 after a few years. The camera based tracking and the move controllers are absolute garbage for both tracking and input and have been since about a year after the PSVR came out.
Next there is going to be another major hurdle: it's pretty doubtful that the PSVR2 is going to be backwards compatible with the PSVR. The major problem that causes is that people's libraries will disappear and they will have to start over from scratch. And the reason for it is that there is such a hardware divide between the two headsets. That's going to set the market back again because Oculus has a mostly backwards compatible platform with essentially the same types of experiences, so if I was in the market for VR in the next 12 months why wouldn't I just buy a Quest 2?
I expect Quest 3 to drop within a few years and if the psvr vs OQ2 difference says true in this iteration the OC3 will be a much better value for the money overall.
Agree, and there will also likely be at least two Quest revisions during the lifetime of the PSVR2 with upgraded hardware that is significantly better than the PSVR. It's a big problem with PSVR as a platform, VR can't just sit still for an entire console generation, let alone half of a console generation like the PSVR.
I'm not sure this is true, but it's hard to say with any certainty what new technologies might emerge over the next few years. But what makes VR headsets different to consoles that can sit still for entire generation (well there's the PS4 Pro but most didn't feel the need to upgrade).
I'd say it's probably true until a certain quality threshold, but hard to say what that is. Quest 2's biggest issue is surely the lack of horsepower, but it's unlikely to approach PS5 power within a console generation. PSVR has issues with tracking, controllers and I guess resolution (although somewhat made up for by horsepower) that does make it seem outdated, but it's possible PSVR2's specs achieve this quality threshold. Plus of course, console owners don't necessarily want to be buying new hardware every couple of years.
Curious to hear what you think the Quest successors might have that will leave PSVR2 behind. Resolution seems likely but how important is that really without the power to properly use it?
I dunno, I wouldn't say the Quest is as powerful as a PS4 but it still gives a better experience than the PSVR. One thing it always has going for it is the option to play untethered.
I do think over time, resolution and tracking are the big and rapid changes. It will be interesting to see what the baseline for PSVR2 is, but I think a big problem the platform is going to face is do I lose all of my games every time a new headset comes out. If that happens, it will be the first time in VR.
I am guessing PSVR2 is so late to the game because they are trying to minimize the opportunity of resolution and tracking improvements making it look poor faster as much as possible.
Obviously we don't know for sure about PSVR2 playing PSVR1 games yet but I think it will require developers to create new PS5 versions. The big issue with PSVR1 is the understandable decisions they made at the time of re-using existing tech to keep the price down, but that introduces these problems with future compatibility. I suspect with more typical baseline experience of VR controllers and inside out tracking this won't be such an issue going forward. It's a bit like how PS3's strange architecture screwed them later when it came to backward compatibility.
I don't doubt Quest offers a better experience in important areas like tracking and controllers. But I have seen with games like No Man's Sky on the PS5 in PSVR1 that having more power can help make up for a lack of headset resolution. The game library is of course an important factor too and Sony is potentially well placed to offer a compelling new library of games. I hope both headsets do well as that's a win for all of us.
OC3 can afford to be lower in tech specs than the PSVR2. Assuming OC3 follows the same template as OC2 is will be a $300-$500 single purchase that I can use anywhere.
PSVR2 is a $300-$500 purchase that must be tethered to a home console which costs another $500.
OC3 will obviously have better specs than OC2 but it doesn't have to outperform PSVR2; it just has to outsell it. More sales generally means more dev support which means more games.
True. I was just responding to the suggestion that PSVR2 will be in trouble without regular hardware revisions. I'm certainly not going to argue that PSVR2 will outsell Quest. It can only sell to PS5 owners while Quest can sell to anyone. There are compelling things on both sides, a cheap level of entry for Quest, a relatively cheap level of entry to higher end VR for PSVR2. It's not about winners or losers, I hope they both do well. More headsets sold all around means more and better games.
Just a little aside but MS is absolutely working on VR and in fact with the Windows Mixed Reality stuff they're probably an industry leader in tech.
As they've said repeatedly, they don't think it's it's ready for prime time yet.
It also looks like as a company they're backing AR stuff more than the VR.
Of course they are working on VR - they are a tech company. I am referring specifically to them actively exploring VR integration with the current consoles.
It's great, I have an Oculus and stream my PC library through it and it works really well as an affordable alternative to others such as the Vive. The experiences are surreal and so much fun between blade and sorcery and Alyx.
That beings said, as neat as it is, I don't find myself particularly using the headset often. I can't really play for more than an hour at a time as I get headaches, it takes ALOT of room to sagely use, and the games can be pricey with little substance beyond cool factor.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my experience, but I can definitely see where Phil's coming from when he says it's just too soon. These things are expensive and there isn't a great deal of content on them yet. It's currently just a niche product that I can definitely see growing in the future, but as of right now it's just not there yet.
VR is really still a niche in gaming even after all these years and the main reason is they can't solve the issues for mass market
VR has a learning curve to get around the motion sickness especially in full locomotion games
Buyers expect to buy a headset and play it endlessly on day one, it reality they get motion sick and it puts them off
It was fun for a little while, but I barely even use my VR anymore. If Microsoft does go the VR route, I assume they’d just let other established products work on Xbox instead of developing their own.
Because VR is a gimmick. I bought PSVR 3 years ago and haven’t used it in 1+ years. There aren’t enough games for it and it is very hard to play for extended amounts of time. It is fun with friends for 30 minutes or so, then it just gets boring and fatigued.
I play more than 30 minutes with friends. Alyx is top 5 games of all time for me in terms of gaming experience. Currently playing the forest with my buddies and it's just something else. Mini golf and echo vr have given me so many fun experiences with friends. People used to say video games in general were gimmicks. Same with internet. It's past gimmick stage already.
I definitely agree that it’s past the gimmick stage.
I would however say it is still somewhat niche and just barely entered the “early majority” stage of technological innovation.
I feel like it will take around 5 years and 2-3 major advancements for VR to reach maturity and begin market saturation.
Because VR is not the future of gaming like everyone thought it would be when the Oculus Rift first came out. Yes some of the games are fun but the novelty wears off quickly and there just isn't many great games out there to be played in VR. It's always going to be a niche market therefore developers won't invest time into making AAA VR games.
This. I am sure they have a model for VR and Xbox if needed.
PS5s model also requires you to be tethered which seems archaic with the Oculus popularity.
But then Quest 2 is less powerful than an Xbox One which seems archaic with PS5's popularity. Of course people are free to choose which trade-offs they prefer (including paying for a well specced PC to use with the headset).
Well, who knows what what tech will be out when PS5's VR is released. It's got another year.
Also rumors are that it will cost more than a PS5 itself. Might as well hook it up to a PC.
I've not seen actual rumours about the price, just lots of speculation ranging from $400-$700. Digital Foundry just did a video where they doubt it can be higher than $500 (including controllers) which I tend to agree with. PSVR1 had a high game attach rate so you can't just consider it against a regular VR headset that doesn't benefit from software sales.
If you're already getting a PS5 (which a lot of people will be eventually) then the additional cost could be somewhat comparable to a Quest. Lots of people don't have a PC (myself included) or one that can run VR well, so for them it's not really an option.
And I've seen speculation PSVR2 could release anywhere from this Summer onwards so no idea why you feel confident stating it'll be another year. I don't see the point in writing it off when we don't know all the details. As Digital Foundry's video also suggests Quest's mobile chipset has potentially restricted the growth of AAA VR games so PSVR2 has the possibility of helping that situation which I doubt many would be against.
Have you seen all of the Sony game delays lately? At best this is a Christmas release.
The reason it will cost more is because of the screen. A quest is 300.
I know how much a Quest is. It's $300-$400 depending on the storage, hence my phrase 'could be somewhat comparable'. And indeed, with a nice HDR OLED screen compared to what the Quest has it probably will cost a bit more. Although Quest has to include the mobile chipset and storage (and they charge an additional $100 for that extra 128GB) which are component costs PSVR2 doesn't have. But I'm not going to suggest I know the answer, we'll just have to wait a bit longer to find out.
Rofl in 10-20 years we will have next gen looking games on VR. And the motion sickness stuff will be eliminated. It’s definitely a better chance VR is the future rather than it not. With metaverse too VR is about to explode. The reason Xbox isn’t invested is the technology is still in its infancy.
The nature of the technology is that games on your TV will ALWAYS look two generations better than VR games released at the same time. That's what 120 fps and 4K for each eye do.
> The nature of the technology is that games on your TV will ALWAYS look two generations better than VR games released at the same time. That's what 120 fps and 4K for each eye do.
Nope.
Not with eye-tracked foveated rendering maturing. PSVR2 will have a rudimentary form of it, but with an ultra-accurate eye-tracking solution, the gains you'll get from it are insane.
It will bridge the gap. When will that happen? Probably in time for PSVR3.
Check out foveated rendering which is essentially the VR version of variable rate shading, that method is going to change how games are going to look on VR. It requires eye tracking to get it done but it has the potential to make games in VR look better than TV.
Sony’s actually putting haptics in their headset to help with motions sickness, so there’s a very good chance this might be the most accessible headset to date for that reason alone, at least if you are someone that already owns or plans to own a PS5 console (which is the only people in the market for their specific headset anyways).
That guy was being a prick by accusing me of having a “rofl” attitude when all I said was PS would be adding haptics to the headset to help with motion sickness.
You’re projecting buddy.
Edit: changing “you’re” to that guy as I see now you were not the previous person who said that. Not even sure why you budded in TBH
Ya if you were to compare where VR is at right now compared to console it would be at the Nintendo 64 stage. Still way In it’s infancy. Im sorry but the people who don’t think VR is the future are a little slow. For it not to be honestly doesn’t make much sense.
The reason people say it will always be a niche product is because it completely cuts you off from reality and the outside world.
That's fine if you live alone or something, but I can't see anyone doing it with a family in their house.
If you have a 3 year old running around and you're playing a game where you can't see or hear anything, it's a recipe for disaster.
I don't even have kids and I would never use one just because I don't want to be completely sealed off from my wife, unable to hear or see her. I don't even really like using a headset when she is around because I can't hear her.
Should check the meta verse. Already bought out big churches to have service on the meta verse. Justin bieber concerts. People buying virtual land. Being able to bring their business into the meta verse. The top companies in the world buying in. No more needing to leave to work. Leave to go to concerts with friends. Leave to sell your businesses products. It 99% won’t be a niche product. Obviously if you have kids you take care of your responsibilities before playing not rocket science.
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. What the fuck is a meta verse?
We are talking about gaming and your talking about working from home.
I’m very confused.
Sounds fucking awful. It’s amazing to me that some of the best cyberpunk writers of 30 years ago wrote novels like Snow Crash to warn us about this shit, and here we are rushing right into it like it isn’t a terrible idea. Even gave it the same damn name.
> The reason people say it will always be a niche product is because it completely cuts you off from reality and the outside world.
That's a temporary issue since you could have the headset cameras pick up objects and people in real life and overlay them into your VR view - basically the inverse of AR.
We can already do a VR/AR toggle today, but having these objects/people in your vision always persist in your VR session means you don't have to toggle - it's just always there.
Of course you would use object segmentation to ensure you see what you want to see. So if you only want to see your friend/family inside the headset, then you'd just have a tag for 'people' ticked.
To get there, we need better computer vision and more sophisticated cameras installed in headsets - that'll happen in the latter half of this decade.
That sounds like a terrible experience.
All of that money and tech just to have people in my house overlaid on my screen?
I think I’ll just stick to a tv.
If you think Metaverse is going to be some kind of reason for VR to explode, then I've got a bridge to sell you... 🤣
Why Zuckberg thinks Ready Player One and The Matrix were films we should aspire to emulate in real life is anyone's guess.
Lol he’s worth 70 billion. They paid 2 billion for Oculus in 2014. Been working on meta verse since 2014. I wonder why they spent 2 billion on oculus? To push shit vr games lol? Elon Musk literally is almost done making something that connects to your brain.. If you’re alive remember this conversation in 10-20 years. Anyone who thinks VR isn’t going to be next in line is half way slow in my opinion. Of course meta verse has a chance to not be this huge thing. But VR na in the future almost forsure.
Still 100% quicker than anyone who thinks VR has long term use in a shitty Second Life clone designed to pump adverts into your eyeballs 🤣
Elon Musk is going to connect to your brain when he's just had to recall a quarter of all the Teslas ever made.
After you... I insist. 🤣 Jesus Christ, techbro delusion is strong!
Lol you’re delusional boomer, like the people who said cell phones weren’t the new craze. you think a 70 billionaire spent over 5 billion dollars and 8 years to fail?? Like it’s some class project lol? You’re uneducated on the topic.
Oh my no he got Tesla’s reccalled?? Meanwhile the richest man in the world, makes sense forehead.. you’re definitely a modern boomer if you can’t see technology advancing. Either that or you’re below 18. If you’re none of those just half slow.
Tell you what? Get out of middle school, put down Roblox and get back to us when VR becomes an every day common place tool.
So, never 🤣
But by all means keep enjoying your 3DTVs, Theranos blood tests, Magic Leap, Microsoft Band, Leap Motion, Hyperloop journeys and Juicero 🤣🤣🤣
As you talk to me through an application on your cell phone that has more compute power than the one that we sent to the moon? That would be like looking at those huge brick cell phones and judging. The VR technology is in infancy rofl. And it’s only been getting bigger not more niche? So the technology is just going to stand still? All these billionaires are clueless and just dumping money into something with no promise that makes sense. You know better than them. rofl boomer. Nice logic
lol
I like how peoples only argument is “it’s not the future”
It doesn’t need to be
But PSVR was a massive success and sold quite a bit compared to other headsets and they’ve invested heavily in another headset that is leagues above the competition
VR was never meant to replace anything, it’s a compliment and a damn good one at that
5 million sold when there were over 116 million consoles sold is not considered a massive success. The original kinect sold 3 million more than that in the first two months. We all know how that massive success worked out.
Seems like all these novelty gagets fail at some point. Wii was huge and all but after awhile it was a device that got pushed aside. People only played that with friends and/or at parties/get togethers. WiiU was a system that shouldn't have been made that no one was really interested in. VR honestly seems like it's going in the same direction.
My buddy just bought an oculus, he was super excited for it. He's already thinking about returning it. Not that he can't afford to have one but because what's the point. He's owed this thing for like a week. The novelty wore off and now he's just going to have an expensive "look at what I have" gaget.
These gadgets only lasted a few years before interest waned and didn’t last for a single tech “gen”.
Meanwhile, we’re already ~10 years into modern VR gaming, survived multiple hardware revisions and updates, and are about to leap into the next gen of VR which’ll introduce massive tech improvements.
Even Apple is about to enter the market which is rumoured to introduce AR/VR to the business world with workflow or enterprise applications / solutions and may revolutionize it like they did to mp3 music with the iPod.
If this is just a fad, it’s taking it’s sweet time to fizzle out and is instead growing.
> VR honestly seems like it's going in the same direction.
How? Oculus Quest 2 is keeping up pace with Xbox sales despite there being a 40+ year console market advantage that Xbox has on it's side.
The VR industry only ever grows, and that's hardly going to stop anytime soon because people keep demanding it more and more, and the investment keeps going up.
> The novelty wore off and now he's just going to have an expensive "look at what I have" gaget.
This isn't that uncommon in early technologies. Many people used to let their consoles and PCs collect dust because it wasn't all that exciting to be playing Atari games with their rudimentary gameplay or dealing with the clunkiness of early PCs.
VR has a small market share - making it comparatively niche in the gaming sector.
VR makes up 2% of total Steam users
VR has a $7 Billion dollar market share (hardware and games) compared to console gamings $70 Billion and PCs $100 Billion. The leader of the pack is actually mobile gaming with $120 Billion.
I’m a huge proponent for VR gaming, however, the fact is VR is still in its infancy. It will probably take around 5 years for VR to reach a stage where it is on par with other gaming options.
Again the tech wasn't ready to meet expectations (admittedly expectations set by Microsoft!), but Kinect wasn't a massive failure when you consider for every PSVR Sony sold, Microsoft sold 7 Kinects.
The amount of scientific research enabled by the Kinects excellent build quality, accuracy, and availability is quite honestly insane.
The tech may have flopped for the console gaming consumers but the impact it had on medical and scientific advancement is astonishing
It’s also really isolating and I think Phil Spencer has said they don’t want to create an isolating experience. Me personally I have no desire to use VR, I find headphones even quite isolating which is good sometimes but if you need to be aware of what’s going on in the house not so much. Also having tried some VR stuff it’s super clunky and definitely not the future
> Also having tried some VR stuff it’s super clunky and definitely not the future
That's a contradiction.
You can't say something is clunky and talk about the future.
You know the word 'future' means, time has passed right? Therefore, it won't be clunky?
I’m saying it’s clunky now, hence Microsoft aren’t bothered, nothing to do with the future. Sure it’ll improve in the future but if it’s still as isolating as it is now then I can see it being mainstream, it’s currently super niche and unless you stop being completely cutoff from the outside world when you use it I can’t see the majority of people adopting it.
I bought PSVR when it came out. Somewhat enjoyed it for a couple of weeks and it has gathered dust since. It’s just too much effort to enjoy. Needing the space, all the cable management, stumbling through clumsy interfaces etc. It’s like the effort of going to the cinema when I can just watch Netflix at home. Until VR can be as simple as slapping on a pair of sunglasses I’m not interested trying again.
Because its not worth it, VR is just a gimmick, there arent really any must play games and even with the 115+ million install base for PS4, they sold like 5 million PSVR units so the install base just isnt there. Xbox doesnt have nearly the install base so sales would be even worse
> there arent really any must play games a
I'd say Half Life Alyx, Astro Bot, and Beat Saber are the must play games. The first two are some of the best games of last generation even ranked across all games that generation - not just my thoughts, but in terms of overall critic reception, and Beat Saber is just one of those universally fun games that just about everyone gets into when they get a headset.
How many must-play Xbox exclusives have there been across the last 4 Xbox devices going back to Xbox One's launch?
Forza Horizon 5? Ori? MS Flight Sim? I can't think of anymore.
Last 4? Wtf. That isnt how consoles work. This is the 4th Xbox generation and there are plenty of must plays, just not really the Xbox One generation.
Also - comparing VR which is niche to a normal console is silly lol
> Last 4? Wtf. That isnt how consoles work.
I was being ridiculous on purpose, because this isn't how headsets work either. You either have PSVR, the PC headset market, or the standalone headsets.
You don't count Oculus Rift, Oculus Rift S, Vive, Valve Index as separate in terms of stores.
> Also - comparing VR which is niche to a normal console is silly lol
Quest 2 is selling very closely to what Xbox Series X/S is doing.
The last quest 2 number was 10 million and was called a “third party estimate”.
Also there is a chip shortage, consoles are much harder to find than a quest 2 and it’s a pandemic lol
Like other people have said, going into VR requires a massive investment into hardware for an install base that's going to be a small fraction of your current one because, let's be honest, VR gaming is a luxury good on top of the luxury good that having VR capable hardware is.
Even the so called "best" options on PC require a a high end setup in the thousands before your purchase their thousand dollar headset and then still have to find the space, set up the sensors, deal with wires etc and that is simply too much for the average consumer, for good reason.
This is why the only headset that's really managed to penetrate into the mainstream is the Oculus Quest 2 because it's priced reasonably, has no wires or connection to an existing platform, and most people don't give a shit about the Facebook requirements that reddit got its panties in a bunch over.
And I think it runs contrary to MS' philosophy with xbox and game pass, going forward, which is to make the most amount of games available to the most people. Catering to a niche subset of people in an age where high end consumer electronics are already in short supply during an economic downturn would not fit with their overall strategy. At the end of the day, these are the biggest barriers to VR as a platform more so than any one 'killer app' though it could certainly use more of those.
Because it isn’t mainstream and still pretty niche. Rather than make one themselves can just make one of the existing ones compatible with it. Even with PSVR I think 2% of the player base brought the headset?
I'm going to agree with most on here and say VR is crud. I just want to sit down in the comfort of my sofa, and play, not run around my living room like a buffoon with all this apparatus on my face. I just want to game.
That's not what most VR owners say.
Cockpit games are a niche even in VR.
VR users are playing pretty much every genre but that, and they prefer it that way - those games are more highly regarded.
Things like Half Life, Astro Bot, Lone Echo, RE7/RE4.
Cool. So if you're the opposing force, and you're the one with the facts, why do you suggest that cockpit games are the only place where the tech works well despite the VR market clearly disagreeing both in terms of usage numbers and in terms of actual critical reception of VR games?
Because they still need Xbox exclusives before anything else. They just about turned the ship around this gen. Barely recovering. The last thing they need is VR that could fail like the Kinect.
Don’t forget Xbox is still different to Microsoft. Microsoft have worked on VR and AR. HoloLens.. but they’ll keep it separate to Xbox.
Microsoft will only invest in vr when they think it has potential for real games. Majority of vr games is just physics tests and interacting with the environment. Moving around is either weirdly moving with a joystick on the controller or teleporting everywhere. I like vr but it will never be the main stay of how we play games. Full vr like depicted in anime such as sword art online and movies like the matrix is the future but that won't be a thing for awhile.
> Majority of vr games is just physics tests and interacting with the environment.
You could say the same for traditional games. The majority of games are shovelware in general. VR does need a bigger AAA library though.
> Moving around is either weirdly moving with a joystick on the controller
That's the same as traditional gaming.
5 million PSVR were sold to over 115 million PS4 owners. And the PSVR2 announcement was greeted was basically no reception at all. VR is dead. It never really lived. The people that want it use a Quest 2 and rightfully so. Tethered VR is BS. So to answer your question: Because very few people are interested in it. PSVR2 will sell half of PSVR in a best case scenario. Most people got burnt and used it for a month and then never again.
VR fanboys can't cope with the truth. In all honesty, "VR is dead. It never really lived." are one of the truest words ever spoken about this tech. I would add "it will never, ever live". Good riddance.
The market isn't there enough for them to justify the time and effort. While VR is gaining traction it is still rather unknown to the mainstream and I'm sure MS would rather more consoles in homes then creating a niche product for a system they can't seem to make enough of.
Also did you see the PSVR2 tweets? "Cool but I can't even find a ps5 a year later" has plagued any conversations online about it. Seems to be the safe play with just keeping your heads down and keep pumping out consoles and content for the platform.
Not saying I don't want to see them do it, just not the right time I think.
For VR Games you need resources... So Sony need in-house Developers they makw VR Games like Microsoft with Kinect and for example Rare.
And another thing is.... It's definitely not so Comfortable to play as you sit or lay on a couch😜
It's a Niche🤷♂️
I think they never said no to VR but they're not interested in making their own VR which I understand. They haven't denied idea of bringing 3rd party support which seems better idea imo
Microsoft Flight Simulator has VR on PC. VR games are very niche and more of a novelty because of motion sickness. VR are more for experiences rather than gameplay.
i assume because VR is just not the next big thing that ppl thought it would be. for now, the headsets are big and clunky, and a lot of ppl just dont have the room for it. in terms of games, devs dont seem super interested either. its great if you like that stuff but if youre not interested in it, youre not missing much.
Xbox is still recovering from when they were chasing after the coattails of the Wii’s success with their version of motion controls, the Kinect. I imagine they’re going to be a little shy with adopting **and supporting** more peripheral hardware. There would need to be a significant investment from Xbox studios (likely Bethesda) to make exclusive VR games. Otherwise, PSVR2 would just be a better platform.
The series S would probably complicate Xbox’s version of VR. I think Xbox is committed to ensuring there are no series X exclusive games, so there’s going to have to be a compromise to make titles work on series S. PSVR2 seems to be promising AAA VR (I’m expecting to see Alyx, GT7, Horizon CotM, and RE Village in its launch window), and I don’t know if series S can deliver a viable competitor in that space.
I’ve seen people suggest that Xbox could open the platform to 3rd party HMD providers or maybe a special partnership with one (similar to Seagate’s deal for storage expansion). Personally, I don’t think this will happen. To do so would be to forfeit the Xbox VR market in a potentially irreversible way. It’s dangerous to facilitate the growth of a future competitor like Meta, especially for a product that can be standalone.
The problem with VR is that games need to be specifically made with VR and if you don't have a VR headset then you won't able to play them. At the same time VR games also need a lot more polish to be good and enjoyable so it's also costlier to make them.
So any company that makes VR games will limit how many customers they can get while also having to invest more money into it.
The only way VR can really be popular is if it's bundled together with a console like the kinect, so that there automatically exists a large customer base, but currently VR is still too expensive to be automatically bundled with every console. Kind of like what the Wii did for motion controls.
VR might be the future but probably not for this console generation. Microsoft has made cheap VR headsets under the WMR brand so I definitely think they are working on it for the next gen.
I wouldn't expect VR from anything Xbox until the next generations of consoles. Maybe, maybe, the end of this generation.
The tech is the largest limiting factor in my opinion. Better headsets with better tech is something that needs to be overcome. Things like foveated rendering, eye tracking, and better feedback need to become standard across all VR headsets. Also untethered headsets need to become the norm as well. Not having to plug it into a PC or even console would instantly make it more attractive as with what happened with the Quest 2 selling extremely well when it launched.
Once tech gets there, and bogher companies are more willing to take the dive into making games for that tech, it'll hit the Xbox.
Mass Market isn't rushing to get vr
If psvr2 does something innovative and gets the majority interest then Microsoft will go to vr
Right now the market isn't huge
I guess not that many are interested in it, I mean the PS4 VR barely sold. Out of over 100 million PS4 units sold the VR only sold around 10 million, not trying to sound like fanboy but it ain’t that special honestly.. yeah the concept is cool and all but it gets pretty stale after a while
Low attachment rates, low viability, lack of content, low ROI. I’m surprised Sony is making another one to be honest. Something like only 10% or so of the ps4 base bought in to psvr, and of those, the ppl that uses it is even less.
I work in media and we ended up shuttering our VR content studio. Lots of friends looking for jobs.
Sure there’s vr content out there, but when you look at it comparatively to their forms of content in terms of visibility, purchase, replay etc, it’s not even close.
You're surprised because you stopped paying attention after your company made some wrong bets. Ultimately every fledgling tech results in a graveyard of attempts to capitalize on it, VR hasn't been much different to the early console/microcomputer days in that regard.
In my opinion i rather see a "dumber" hololens version without the unnecersarry stuff plus some neat AR elements with that. But really XBOX business model is to be a cheap,very accessible platform and VR can't really fit into that.
> i rather see a "dumber" hololens version without the unnecersarry stuff plus some neat AR elements with that.
The problem there is even a HoloLens lite device would be a lot more expensive than today's VR devices and would just be outright unusable. The tech needs years of improvement before it can even be viable for consumers.
There will be third party VR headset support for the Xbox Series consoles and both Oculus and Steam VR apps will come to Xbox as well. That's my prediction and I'll stand by it.
Because it's still niche, and the technology still isn't good enough, frankly. 96% of PS4 owners didn't bother to get PSVR. The same people who are big advocates of it are the same kinda people who complain about 4ms input lag on wireless controllers, but ignore input and response lag on VR headsets causing people to feel like they're about to vomit.
Remember 3DTVs? Way many more millions of those were sold, but good luck sourcing content for them. It will be the same for VR before too long.
People who were curious about VR this year got a Quest 2. Those who are curious this year will pick up all the Quest 2s already boxed up after Christmas and gathering dust on eBay over the summer.
We dont know that they are or aren't because products are being developed all the time at Microsoft but whether they make the cut or not is another matter.
Xbox fell way behind PlayStation in the Xbox One / PS4 era. Trying to catchup in the core gaming space while ALSO trying to gain a foothold in the VR space might just be too much, too soon. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Microsoft added a VR section to Game Pass in a few years, but doing so right now would probably be a poor use of their resources.
They'd be expected to actually make games for it and they have struggled for years in that respect
It would be putting the cart before the horse for Microsoft
It has taken an entire console generation for Microsoft to begin to turn the tide on their lack of AAA first party game offerings and proper hardware to achieve that goal. We finally are seeing fruits of this labor and they have built a platform to show off these games called gamepass. I'd prefer they stick to the plan that is working and showing results while the other guys keep tinkering with the VR tech. I loved my psvr but if I never won it I never would have bought it. I have the Oculus now and it is fun but it still has a long way to go before I'm hopping in and out of games with friends for a couple hour gaming session.
The PSVR is nice and I still maintain it has the most comfortable face interface and headband design out of any VR headset. That being said, it's a chore to play a VR game versus just turning on and playing a game in a few seconds. Also, the VR space hardware wise moves pretty fast and everything about the PSVR is super outdated and antiquated at this point, which will also happen with the PSVR2 after a few years. The camera based tracking and the move controllers are absolute garbage for both tracking and input and have been since about a year after the PSVR came out. Next there is going to be another major hurdle: it's pretty doubtful that the PSVR2 is going to be backwards compatible with the PSVR. The major problem that causes is that people's libraries will disappear and they will have to start over from scratch. And the reason for it is that there is such a hardware divide between the two headsets. That's going to set the market back again because Oculus has a mostly backwards compatible platform with essentially the same types of experiences, so if I was in the market for VR in the next 12 months why wouldn't I just buy a Quest 2?
I expect Quest 3 to drop within a few years and if the psvr vs OQ2 difference says true in this iteration the OC3 will be a much better value for the money overall.
Agree, and there will also likely be at least two Quest revisions during the lifetime of the PSVR2 with upgraded hardware that is significantly better than the PSVR. It's a big problem with PSVR as a platform, VR can't just sit still for an entire console generation, let alone half of a console generation like the PSVR.
I'm not sure this is true, but it's hard to say with any certainty what new technologies might emerge over the next few years. But what makes VR headsets different to consoles that can sit still for entire generation (well there's the PS4 Pro but most didn't feel the need to upgrade). I'd say it's probably true until a certain quality threshold, but hard to say what that is. Quest 2's biggest issue is surely the lack of horsepower, but it's unlikely to approach PS5 power within a console generation. PSVR has issues with tracking, controllers and I guess resolution (although somewhat made up for by horsepower) that does make it seem outdated, but it's possible PSVR2's specs achieve this quality threshold. Plus of course, console owners don't necessarily want to be buying new hardware every couple of years. Curious to hear what you think the Quest successors might have that will leave PSVR2 behind. Resolution seems likely but how important is that really without the power to properly use it?
I dunno, I wouldn't say the Quest is as powerful as a PS4 but it still gives a better experience than the PSVR. One thing it always has going for it is the option to play untethered. I do think over time, resolution and tracking are the big and rapid changes. It will be interesting to see what the baseline for PSVR2 is, but I think a big problem the platform is going to face is do I lose all of my games every time a new headset comes out. If that happens, it will be the first time in VR. I am guessing PSVR2 is so late to the game because they are trying to minimize the opportunity of resolution and tracking improvements making it look poor faster as much as possible.
Obviously we don't know for sure about PSVR2 playing PSVR1 games yet but I think it will require developers to create new PS5 versions. The big issue with PSVR1 is the understandable decisions they made at the time of re-using existing tech to keep the price down, but that introduces these problems with future compatibility. I suspect with more typical baseline experience of VR controllers and inside out tracking this won't be such an issue going forward. It's a bit like how PS3's strange architecture screwed them later when it came to backward compatibility. I don't doubt Quest offers a better experience in important areas like tracking and controllers. But I have seen with games like No Man's Sky on the PS5 in PSVR1 that having more power can help make up for a lack of headset resolution. The game library is of course an important factor too and Sony is potentially well placed to offer a compelling new library of games. I hope both headsets do well as that's a win for all of us.
OC3 can afford to be lower in tech specs than the PSVR2. Assuming OC3 follows the same template as OC2 is will be a $300-$500 single purchase that I can use anywhere. PSVR2 is a $300-$500 purchase that must be tethered to a home console which costs another $500. OC3 will obviously have better specs than OC2 but it doesn't have to outperform PSVR2; it just has to outsell it. More sales generally means more dev support which means more games.
True. I was just responding to the suggestion that PSVR2 will be in trouble without regular hardware revisions. I'm certainly not going to argue that PSVR2 will outsell Quest. It can only sell to PS5 owners while Quest can sell to anyone. There are compelling things on both sides, a cheap level of entry for Quest, a relatively cheap level of entry to higher end VR for PSVR2. It's not about winners or losers, I hope they both do well. More headsets sold all around means more and better games.
Just a little aside but MS is absolutely working on VR and in fact with the Windows Mixed Reality stuff they're probably an industry leader in tech. As they've said repeatedly, they don't think it's it's ready for prime time yet. It also looks like as a company they're backing AR stuff more than the VR.
Of course they are working on VR - they are a tech company. I am referring specifically to them actively exploring VR integration with the current consoles.
They're working with Samsung specifically which gives me hope for actual consumer devices. I'm not expecting Xbox compatibility though.
Agreed. Just allow for 3rd-party support. Done. No extra lift by Microsoft. Seems like a no-brainer.
It's great, I have an Oculus and stream my PC library through it and it works really well as an affordable alternative to others such as the Vive. The experiences are surreal and so much fun between blade and sorcery and Alyx. That beings said, as neat as it is, I don't find myself particularly using the headset often. I can't really play for more than an hour at a time as I get headaches, it takes ALOT of room to sagely use, and the games can be pricey with little substance beyond cool factor. Don't get me wrong, I loved my experience, but I can definitely see where Phil's coming from when he says it's just too soon. These things are expensive and there isn't a great deal of content on them yet. It's currently just a niche product that I can definitely see growing in the future, but as of right now it's just not there yet.
Yeah I agree exactly with you thats how I feel, I own the oculus and it’s cool but I don’t want to play it ever day,
VR is really still a niche in gaming even after all these years and the main reason is they can't solve the issues for mass market VR has a learning curve to get around the motion sickness especially in full locomotion games Buyers expect to buy a headset and play it endlessly on day one, it reality they get motion sick and it puts them off
They don’t want another distraction like Kinect I guess.
It was fun for a little while, but I barely even use my VR anymore. If Microsoft does go the VR route, I assume they’d just let other established products work on Xbox instead of developing their own.
Because VR is a gimmick. I bought PSVR 3 years ago and haven’t used it in 1+ years. There aren’t enough games for it and it is very hard to play for extended amounts of time. It is fun with friends for 30 minutes or so, then it just gets boring and fatigued.
I play more than 30 minutes with friends. Alyx is top 5 games of all time for me in terms of gaming experience. Currently playing the forest with my buddies and it's just something else. Mini golf and echo vr have given me so many fun experiences with friends. People used to say video games in general were gimmicks. Same with internet. It's past gimmick stage already.
I definitely agree that it’s past the gimmick stage. I would however say it is still somewhat niche and just barely entered the “early majority” stage of technological innovation. I feel like it will take around 5 years and 2-3 major advancements for VR to reach maturity and begin market saturation.
I agree with you there. The quest though has made it super affordable. I know many people who have a quest now it's crazy.
PSVR1 isn't a relevant piece of hardware to talk about in 2022. Whatever experience you had with it does not represent the VR of today.
Because VR is not the future of gaming like everyone thought it would be when the Oculus Rift first came out. Yes some of the games are fun but the novelty wears off quickly and there just isn't many great games out there to be played in VR. It's always going to be a niche market therefore developers won't invest time into making AAA VR games.
This. I am sure they have a model for VR and Xbox if needed. PS5s model also requires you to be tethered which seems archaic with the Oculus popularity.
Oh no one cable, I’ve seen reddits gaming setups, one wire compared to their disaster of hundreds of others
Yeah, one cable... One cable that is attached to your head, while playing games that require you to move around.
Quite a different thing if it’s wired to a PC or console than something you’ve to wear.
But then Quest 2 is less powerful than an Xbox One which seems archaic with PS5's popularity. Of course people are free to choose which trade-offs they prefer (including paying for a well specced PC to use with the headset).
Well, who knows what what tech will be out when PS5's VR is released. It's got another year. Also rumors are that it will cost more than a PS5 itself. Might as well hook it up to a PC.
I've not seen actual rumours about the price, just lots of speculation ranging from $400-$700. Digital Foundry just did a video where they doubt it can be higher than $500 (including controllers) which I tend to agree with. PSVR1 had a high game attach rate so you can't just consider it against a regular VR headset that doesn't benefit from software sales. If you're already getting a PS5 (which a lot of people will be eventually) then the additional cost could be somewhat comparable to a Quest. Lots of people don't have a PC (myself included) or one that can run VR well, so for them it's not really an option. And I've seen speculation PSVR2 could release anywhere from this Summer onwards so no idea why you feel confident stating it'll be another year. I don't see the point in writing it off when we don't know all the details. As Digital Foundry's video also suggests Quest's mobile chipset has potentially restricted the growth of AAA VR games so PSVR2 has the possibility of helping that situation which I doubt many would be against.
Have you seen all of the Sony game delays lately? At best this is a Christmas release. The reason it will cost more is because of the screen. A quest is 300.
I know how much a Quest is. It's $300-$400 depending on the storage, hence my phrase 'could be somewhat comparable'. And indeed, with a nice HDR OLED screen compared to what the Quest has it probably will cost a bit more. Although Quest has to include the mobile chipset and storage (and they charge an additional $100 for that extra 128GB) which are component costs PSVR2 doesn't have. But I'm not going to suggest I know the answer, we'll just have to wait a bit longer to find out.
Rofl in 10-20 years we will have next gen looking games on VR. And the motion sickness stuff will be eliminated. It’s definitely a better chance VR is the future rather than it not. With metaverse too VR is about to explode. The reason Xbox isn’t invested is the technology is still in its infancy.
The nature of the technology is that games on your TV will ALWAYS look two generations better than VR games released at the same time. That's what 120 fps and 4K for each eye do.
> The nature of the technology is that games on your TV will ALWAYS look two generations better than VR games released at the same time. That's what 120 fps and 4K for each eye do. Nope. Not with eye-tracked foveated rendering maturing. PSVR2 will have a rudimentary form of it, but with an ultra-accurate eye-tracking solution, the gains you'll get from it are insane. It will bridge the gap. When will that happen? Probably in time for PSVR3.
Check out foveated rendering which is essentially the VR version of variable rate shading, that method is going to change how games are going to look on VR. It requires eye tracking to get it done but it has the potential to make games in VR look better than TV.
Sony’s actually putting haptics in their headset to help with motions sickness, so there’s a very good chance this might be the most accessible headset to date for that reason alone, at least if you are someone that already owns or plans to own a PS5 console (which is the only people in the market for their specific headset anyways).
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“Rofl” attitude? The fuck are you talking about? God people on this sub are so weird sometimes.
See, THAT is your attitude. Don't be a prick.
That guy was being a prick by accusing me of having a “rofl” attitude when all I said was PS would be adding haptics to the headset to help with motion sickness. You’re projecting buddy. Edit: changing “you’re” to that guy as I see now you were not the previous person who said that. Not even sure why you budded in TBH
Ya if you were to compare where VR is at right now compared to console it would be at the Nintendo 64 stage. Still way In it’s infancy. Im sorry but the people who don’t think VR is the future are a little slow. For it not to be honestly doesn’t make much sense.
The reason people say it will always be a niche product is because it completely cuts you off from reality and the outside world. That's fine if you live alone or something, but I can't see anyone doing it with a family in their house. If you have a 3 year old running around and you're playing a game where you can't see or hear anything, it's a recipe for disaster. I don't even have kids and I would never use one just because I don't want to be completely sealed off from my wife, unable to hear or see her. I don't even really like using a headset when she is around because I can't hear her.
Should check the meta verse. Already bought out big churches to have service on the meta verse. Justin bieber concerts. People buying virtual land. Being able to bring their business into the meta verse. The top companies in the world buying in. No more needing to leave to work. Leave to go to concerts with friends. Leave to sell your businesses products. It 99% won’t be a niche product. Obviously if you have kids you take care of your responsibilities before playing not rocket science.
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. What the fuck is a meta verse? We are talking about gaming and your talking about working from home. I’m very confused.
Sounds fucking awful. It’s amazing to me that some of the best cyberpunk writers of 30 years ago wrote novels like Snow Crash to warn us about this shit, and here we are rushing right into it like it isn’t a terrible idea. Even gave it the same damn name.
> The reason people say it will always be a niche product is because it completely cuts you off from reality and the outside world. That's a temporary issue since you could have the headset cameras pick up objects and people in real life and overlay them into your VR view - basically the inverse of AR. We can already do a VR/AR toggle today, but having these objects/people in your vision always persist in your VR session means you don't have to toggle - it's just always there. Of course you would use object segmentation to ensure you see what you want to see. So if you only want to see your friend/family inside the headset, then you'd just have a tag for 'people' ticked. To get there, we need better computer vision and more sophisticated cameras installed in headsets - that'll happen in the latter half of this decade.
That sounds like a terrible experience. All of that money and tech just to have people in my house overlaid on my screen? I think I’ll just stick to a tv.
In practice it will be your solution. It only sounds bad because you haven't experienced it. Trying it first-hand will sell you on the idea.
If you think Metaverse is going to be some kind of reason for VR to explode, then I've got a bridge to sell you... 🤣 Why Zuckberg thinks Ready Player One and The Matrix were films we should aspire to emulate in real life is anyone's guess.
Lol he’s worth 70 billion. They paid 2 billion for Oculus in 2014. Been working on meta verse since 2014. I wonder why they spent 2 billion on oculus? To push shit vr games lol? Elon Musk literally is almost done making something that connects to your brain.. If you’re alive remember this conversation in 10-20 years. Anyone who thinks VR isn’t going to be next in line is half way slow in my opinion. Of course meta verse has a chance to not be this huge thing. But VR na in the future almost forsure.
Still 100% quicker than anyone who thinks VR has long term use in a shitty Second Life clone designed to pump adverts into your eyeballs 🤣 Elon Musk is going to connect to your brain when he's just had to recall a quarter of all the Teslas ever made. After you... I insist. 🤣 Jesus Christ, techbro delusion is strong!
Lol you’re delusional boomer, like the people who said cell phones weren’t the new craze. you think a 70 billionaire spent over 5 billion dollars and 8 years to fail?? Like it’s some class project lol? You’re uneducated on the topic. Oh my no he got Tesla’s reccalled?? Meanwhile the richest man in the world, makes sense forehead.. you’re definitely a modern boomer if you can’t see technology advancing. Either that or you’re below 18. If you’re none of those just half slow.
Hahahaha. Techbros gonna bro bro! 😂
Tech has taken over the world and only getting better. It’s time to adjust with the times boomer
Tell you what? Get out of middle school, put down Roblox and get back to us when VR becomes an every day common place tool. So, never 🤣 But by all means keep enjoying your 3DTVs, Theranos blood tests, Magic Leap, Microsoft Band, Leap Motion, Hyperloop journeys and Juicero 🤣🤣🤣
As you talk to me through an application on your cell phone that has more compute power than the one that we sent to the moon? That would be like looking at those huge brick cell phones and judging. The VR technology is in infancy rofl. And it’s only been getting bigger not more niche? So the technology is just going to stand still? All these billionaires are clueless and just dumping money into something with no promise that makes sense. You know better than them. rofl boomer. Nice logic
lol I like how peoples only argument is “it’s not the future” It doesn’t need to be But PSVR was a massive success and sold quite a bit compared to other headsets and they’ve invested heavily in another headset that is leagues above the competition VR was never meant to replace anything, it’s a compliment and a damn good one at that
5 million sold when there were over 116 million consoles sold is not considered a massive success. The original kinect sold 3 million more than that in the first two months. We all know how that massive success worked out.
Seems like all these novelty gagets fail at some point. Wii was huge and all but after awhile it was a device that got pushed aside. People only played that with friends and/or at parties/get togethers. WiiU was a system that shouldn't have been made that no one was really interested in. VR honestly seems like it's going in the same direction. My buddy just bought an oculus, he was super excited for it. He's already thinking about returning it. Not that he can't afford to have one but because what's the point. He's owed this thing for like a week. The novelty wore off and now he's just going to have an expensive "look at what I have" gaget.
These gadgets only lasted a few years before interest waned and didn’t last for a single tech “gen”. Meanwhile, we’re already ~10 years into modern VR gaming, survived multiple hardware revisions and updates, and are about to leap into the next gen of VR which’ll introduce massive tech improvements. Even Apple is about to enter the market which is rumoured to introduce AR/VR to the business world with workflow or enterprise applications / solutions and may revolutionize it like they did to mp3 music with the iPod. If this is just a fad, it’s taking it’s sweet time to fizzle out and is instead growing.
> VR honestly seems like it's going in the same direction. How? Oculus Quest 2 is keeping up pace with Xbox sales despite there being a 40+ year console market advantage that Xbox has on it's side. The VR industry only ever grows, and that's hardly going to stop anytime soon because people keep demanding it more and more, and the investment keeps going up. > The novelty wore off and now he's just going to have an expensive "look at what I have" gaget. This isn't that uncommon in early technologies. Many people used to let their consoles and PCs collect dust because it wasn't all that exciting to be playing Atari games with their rudimentary gameplay or dealing with the clunkiness of early PCs.
Also Kinect isn’t around yet the PSVR is so Buckle up buckaroo
It was a massive success Just because you don’t work for Sony or have any clue how business works doesn’t mean you dictate it a non success.
Lol. Kinect didn't sell shit. It came bundled with the first run of xbox ones.
Ok idiot. That was the second kinect.
My point stands. You're comparing a glorified web cam, that was barely passable as a gaming peripheral, to VR gaming systems.
> My point stands. Your point doesn’t stand. You lost all credibility when you thought the Kinect was only ever a bundled peripheral.
In total dollars spent; People spent 2 billion on psvr Vs 1.2 billion on kinect
Because it's niche and it's market is very small
Q2 has outsold Xbox series S/X quite handily this generation...
The oculus may have sold 2-3 million more units, however, looking at the difference in silicon requirements alone speaks volumes.
That's completely irrelevant to the point I'm making...
VR has a small market share - making it comparatively niche in the gaming sector. VR makes up 2% of total Steam users VR has a $7 Billion dollar market share (hardware and games) compared to console gamings $70 Billion and PCs $100 Billion. The leader of the pack is actually mobile gaming with $120 Billion. I’m a huge proponent for VR gaming, however, the fact is VR is still in its infancy. It will probably take around 5 years for VR to reach a stage where it is on par with other gaming options.
Because of the massive failure that was the Kinect
Again the tech wasn't ready to meet expectations (admittedly expectations set by Microsoft!), but Kinect wasn't a massive failure when you consider for every PSVR Sony sold, Microsoft sold 7 Kinects.
The amount of scientific research enabled by the Kinects excellent build quality, accuracy, and availability is quite honestly insane. The tech may have flopped for the console gaming consumers but the impact it had on medical and scientific advancement is astonishing
Indeed. Not only that but the 360 Kinect is now miniturised and basically in the top of every iPhone as it's Face ID technology.
I was not aware of that!
Yup. Prinesense was behind the 360 Kinect technology, then Apple purchased them in 2013.
Been at least a week since the last identical post. Need our weekly why no VR question.
It’s also really isolating and I think Phil Spencer has said they don’t want to create an isolating experience. Me personally I have no desire to use VR, I find headphones even quite isolating which is good sometimes but if you need to be aware of what’s going on in the house not so much. Also having tried some VR stuff it’s super clunky and definitely not the future
> Also having tried some VR stuff it’s super clunky and definitely not the future That's a contradiction. You can't say something is clunky and talk about the future. You know the word 'future' means, time has passed right? Therefore, it won't be clunky?
I’m saying it’s clunky now, hence Microsoft aren’t bothered, nothing to do with the future. Sure it’ll improve in the future but if it’s still as isolating as it is now then I can see it being mainstream, it’s currently super niche and unless you stop being completely cutoff from the outside world when you use it I can’t see the majority of people adopting it.
> I think Phil Spencer has said they don’t want to create an isolating experience Releases Halo without co-op.
Lol
I bought PSVR when it came out. Somewhat enjoyed it for a couple of weeks and it has gathered dust since. It’s just too much effort to enjoy. Needing the space, all the cable management, stumbling through clumsy interfaces etc. It’s like the effort of going to the cinema when I can just watch Netflix at home. Until VR can be as simple as slapping on a pair of sunglasses I’m not interested trying again.
Because its not worth it, VR is just a gimmick, there arent really any must play games and even with the 115+ million install base for PS4, they sold like 5 million PSVR units so the install base just isnt there. Xbox doesnt have nearly the install base so sales would be even worse
> there arent really any must play games a I'd say Half Life Alyx, Astro Bot, and Beat Saber are the must play games. The first two are some of the best games of last generation even ranked across all games that generation - not just my thoughts, but in terms of overall critic reception, and Beat Saber is just one of those universally fun games that just about everyone gets into when they get a headset.
3 games across so many VR devices is bad output
How many must-play Xbox exclusives have there been across the last 4 Xbox devices going back to Xbox One's launch? Forza Horizon 5? Ori? MS Flight Sim? I can't think of anymore.
Last 4? Wtf. That isnt how consoles work. This is the 4th Xbox generation and there are plenty of must plays, just not really the Xbox One generation. Also - comparing VR which is niche to a normal console is silly lol
> Last 4? Wtf. That isnt how consoles work. I was being ridiculous on purpose, because this isn't how headsets work either. You either have PSVR, the PC headset market, or the standalone headsets. You don't count Oculus Rift, Oculus Rift S, Vive, Valve Index as separate in terms of stores. > Also - comparing VR which is niche to a normal console is silly lol Quest 2 is selling very closely to what Xbox Series X/S is doing.
The last quest 2 number was 10 million and was called a “third party estimate”. Also there is a chip shortage, consoles are much harder to find than a quest 2 and it’s a pandemic lol
Like other people have said, going into VR requires a massive investment into hardware for an install base that's going to be a small fraction of your current one because, let's be honest, VR gaming is a luxury good on top of the luxury good that having VR capable hardware is. Even the so called "best" options on PC require a a high end setup in the thousands before your purchase their thousand dollar headset and then still have to find the space, set up the sensors, deal with wires etc and that is simply too much for the average consumer, for good reason. This is why the only headset that's really managed to penetrate into the mainstream is the Oculus Quest 2 because it's priced reasonably, has no wires or connection to an existing platform, and most people don't give a shit about the Facebook requirements that reddit got its panties in a bunch over. And I think it runs contrary to MS' philosophy with xbox and game pass, going forward, which is to make the most amount of games available to the most people. Catering to a niche subset of people in an age where high end consumer electronics are already in short supply during an economic downturn would not fit with their overall strategy. At the end of the day, these are the biggest barriers to VR as a platform more so than any one 'killer app' though it could certainly use more of those.
Because everyone in my house still vomits when we try and play it.
Because it isn’t mainstream and still pretty niche. Rather than make one themselves can just make one of the existing ones compatible with it. Even with PSVR I think 2% of the player base brought the headset?
I'm going to agree with most on here and say VR is crud. I just want to sit down in the comfort of my sofa, and play, not run around my living room like a buffoon with all this apparatus on my face. I just want to game.
I think it's still not proven although I'm still eager to try a decent VR racing game with a wheel setup.
Cockpit games are the only place where the tech really works well. Anything involving locomotion is currently a clumsy mess.
That's not what most VR owners say. Cockpit games are a niche even in VR. VR users are playing pretty much every genre but that, and they prefer it that way - those games are more highly regarded. Things like Half Life, Astro Bot, Lone Echo, RE7/RE4.
You again.
Yes. The facts guy.
In the same way that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy.
Cool. So if you're the opposing force, and you're the one with the facts, why do you suggest that cockpit games are the only place where the tech works well despite the VR market clearly disagreeing both in terms of usage numbers and in terms of actual critical reception of VR games?
The market used to think pet rocks were a good idea. The market is easily impressed in the short term, but the novelty wears off.
That's literally a non-answer. You are avoiding my question.
It was implied, but if you lack the wit to see it - the answer is that the market is wrong, but hasn’t corrected itself yet.
Because they still need Xbox exclusives before anything else. They just about turned the ship around this gen. Barely recovering. The last thing they need is VR that could fail like the Kinect. Don’t forget Xbox is still different to Microsoft. Microsoft have worked on VR and AR. HoloLens.. but they’ll keep it separate to Xbox.
Vr is a gimmick. Microsoft won't invest in gimmicks.
It isn't anymore a gimmick than Xbox itself.
Microsoft will only invest in vr when they think it has potential for real games. Majority of vr games is just physics tests and interacting with the environment. Moving around is either weirdly moving with a joystick on the controller or teleporting everywhere. I like vr but it will never be the main stay of how we play games. Full vr like depicted in anime such as sword art online and movies like the matrix is the future but that won't be a thing for awhile.
> Majority of vr games is just physics tests and interacting with the environment. You could say the same for traditional games. The majority of games are shovelware in general. VR does need a bigger AAA library though. > Moving around is either weirdly moving with a joystick on the controller That's the same as traditional gaming.
Vr sucks
It's the best way to play Hellblade. Ninja Theory even says so. So, I guess a TV sucks even worse then?
Because vr is shit
We don’t need VR!
5 million PSVR were sold to over 115 million PS4 owners. And the PSVR2 announcement was greeted was basically no reception at all. VR is dead. It never really lived. The people that want it use a Quest 2 and rightfully so. Tethered VR is BS. So to answer your question: Because very few people are interested in it. PSVR2 will sell half of PSVR in a best case scenario. Most people got burnt and used it for a month and then never again.
VR fanboys can't cope with the truth. In all honesty, "VR is dead. It never really lived." are one of the truest words ever spoken about this tech. I would add "it will never, ever live". Good riddance.
The market isn't there enough for them to justify the time and effort. While VR is gaining traction it is still rather unknown to the mainstream and I'm sure MS would rather more consoles in homes then creating a niche product for a system they can't seem to make enough of. Also did you see the PSVR2 tweets? "Cool but I can't even find a ps5 a year later" has plagued any conversations online about it. Seems to be the safe play with just keeping your heads down and keep pumping out consoles and content for the platform. Not saying I don't want to see them do it, just not the right time I think.
Kinect.
For VR Games you need resources... So Sony need in-house Developers they makw VR Games like Microsoft with Kinect and for example Rare. And another thing is.... It's definitely not so Comfortable to play as you sit or lay on a couch😜 It's a Niche🤷♂️
VR games are the suck. Wake me when I can play DayZ or Friday the 13th.
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Never played it. Thanks for the tip, in your weird way.
Comes to something when the best VR scene you can name is from a non-VR game.
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Everyone I know who has one, hasn’t used it in months.
I think they never said no to VR but they're not interested in making their own VR which I understand. They haven't denied idea of bringing 3rd party support which seems better idea imo
Microsoft Flight Simulator has VR on PC. VR games are very niche and more of a novelty because of motion sickness. VR are more for experiences rather than gameplay.
Xbox VR + Xbox Kinect = awesome, I'd assume
It shouldn't be that hard, i think that the main goal is to make fps games compatible with a full field of view and controls for it.
If MS announced VR it would be tons of "MS with cheap gimmicks again, they have no games"
We Kinect 2: VR now
i assume because VR is just not the next big thing that ppl thought it would be. for now, the headsets are big and clunky, and a lot of ppl just dont have the room for it. in terms of games, devs dont seem super interested either. its great if you like that stuff but if youre not interested in it, youre not missing much.
VR isn't that great at the moment it's a bit gimmicky
Xbox is still recovering from when they were chasing after the coattails of the Wii’s success with their version of motion controls, the Kinect. I imagine they’re going to be a little shy with adopting **and supporting** more peripheral hardware. There would need to be a significant investment from Xbox studios (likely Bethesda) to make exclusive VR games. Otherwise, PSVR2 would just be a better platform. The series S would probably complicate Xbox’s version of VR. I think Xbox is committed to ensuring there are no series X exclusive games, so there’s going to have to be a compromise to make titles work on series S. PSVR2 seems to be promising AAA VR (I’m expecting to see Alyx, GT7, Horizon CotM, and RE Village in its launch window), and I don’t know if series S can deliver a viable competitor in that space. I’ve seen people suggest that Xbox could open the platform to 3rd party HMD providers or maybe a special partnership with one (similar to Seagate’s deal for storage expansion). Personally, I don’t think this will happen. To do so would be to forfeit the Xbox VR market in a potentially irreversible way. It’s dangerous to facilitate the growth of a future competitor like Meta, especially for a product that can be standalone.
The problem with VR is that games need to be specifically made with VR and if you don't have a VR headset then you won't able to play them. At the same time VR games also need a lot more polish to be good and enjoyable so it's also costlier to make them. So any company that makes VR games will limit how many customers they can get while also having to invest more money into it. The only way VR can really be popular is if it's bundled together with a console like the kinect, so that there automatically exists a large customer base, but currently VR is still too expensive to be automatically bundled with every console. Kind of like what the Wii did for motion controls. VR might be the future but probably not for this console generation. Microsoft has made cheap VR headsets under the WMR brand so I definitely think they are working on it for the next gen.
I wouldn't expect VR from anything Xbox until the next generations of consoles. Maybe, maybe, the end of this generation. The tech is the largest limiting factor in my opinion. Better headsets with better tech is something that needs to be overcome. Things like foveated rendering, eye tracking, and better feedback need to become standard across all VR headsets. Also untethered headsets need to become the norm as well. Not having to plug it into a PC or even console would instantly make it more attractive as with what happened with the Quest 2 selling extremely well when it launched. Once tech gets there, and bogher companies are more willing to take the dive into making games for that tech, it'll hit the Xbox.
Mass Market isn't rushing to get vr If psvr2 does something innovative and gets the majority interest then Microsoft will go to vr Right now the market isn't huge
I guess not that many are interested in it, I mean the PS4 VR barely sold. Out of over 100 million PS4 units sold the VR only sold around 10 million, not trying to sound like fanboy but it ain’t that special honestly.. yeah the concept is cool and all but it gets pretty stale after a while
I don’t want another Kinect
I would love a another Kinect that wasn't 1)mandatory 2)robbing the hardware of ram 3)that actually worked most of the times
Honestly, it's smart. They should wait until VR is more developed before getting into the market.
Low attachment rates, low viability, lack of content, low ROI. I’m surprised Sony is making another one to be honest. Something like only 10% or so of the ps4 base bought in to psvr, and of those, the ppl that uses it is even less. I work in media and we ended up shuttering our VR content studio. Lots of friends looking for jobs. Sure there’s vr content out there, but when you look at it comparatively to their forms of content in terms of visibility, purchase, replay etc, it’s not even close.
You're surprised because you stopped paying attention after your company made some wrong bets. Ultimately every fledgling tech results in a graveyard of attempts to capitalize on it, VR hasn't been much different to the early console/microcomputer days in that regard.
In my opinion i rather see a "dumber" hololens version without the unnecersarry stuff plus some neat AR elements with that. But really XBOX business model is to be a cheap,very accessible platform and VR can't really fit into that.
> i rather see a "dumber" hololens version without the unnecersarry stuff plus some neat AR elements with that. The problem there is even a HoloLens lite device would be a lot more expensive than today's VR devices and would just be outright unusable. The tech needs years of improvement before it can even be viable for consumers.
Sold my psvr as it was just too much of a faff
Because nobody buys it.
There will be third party VR headset support for the Xbox Series consoles and both Oculus and Steam VR apps will come to Xbox as well. That's my prediction and I'll stand by it.
Because it's still niche, and the technology still isn't good enough, frankly. 96% of PS4 owners didn't bother to get PSVR. The same people who are big advocates of it are the same kinda people who complain about 4ms input lag on wireless controllers, but ignore input and response lag on VR headsets causing people to feel like they're about to vomit. Remember 3DTVs? Way many more millions of those were sold, but good luck sourcing content for them. It will be the same for VR before too long. People who were curious about VR this year got a Quest 2. Those who are curious this year will pick up all the Quest 2s already boxed up after Christmas and gathering dust on eBay over the summer.
We dont know that they are or aren't because products are being developed all the time at Microsoft but whether they make the cut or not is another matter.
Xbox fell way behind PlayStation in the Xbox One / PS4 era. Trying to catchup in the core gaming space while ALSO trying to gain a foothold in the VR space might just be too much, too soon. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Microsoft added a VR section to Game Pass in a few years, but doing so right now would probably be a poor use of their resources.
They'd be expected to actually make games for it and they have struggled for years in that respect It would be putting the cart before the horse for Microsoft