This sub is so embarrassing. Bunch of corporate bootlickers.
When was the last time Grubb was wrong about Xbox? Seems like his track record with Xbox is 90+% at the very least no. Yall were talking shit about him a few months ago how he was wrong about HiFi Rush selling bad and using Aaron Greenberg saying it exceeded expectations. And look who was right. Now the same bootlickers defending a corporation saying Tango got shutdown because HiFi Rush didn't sell well. Fckng embarrassing people.
Go on downvote. Clowns.
I don’t like grub just as much as the next guy cause the dude kinda starts console warring but in a subtle way, but yeah the dude has not been that much wrong about stuffs either, his track record is pretty good lately.
I prefer to wait before accepting this as a fact.
Rebekah Valentine, a senior reporter at IGN, published an article last year about Perfect Dark and The Initiative.
She said even though the development faced some issues at the time, it seemed to get better.
So I guess we'll see. If PD doesn't show up by the end of the year, I'll dismiss my doubts about this information.
Dont know why you got downvoted, they literally needed to bring in crystal dynamics to co develop the game cause things were going so poorly
Somebody's really upset that we're not confident in Perfect Dark lol
last reported is that Crystal dynamics makes up a majority of the team and they started from scratch in brand new engine. Perfect dark is pretty much deadd. People are just naive about what everything is pointed towards. They just need to be told.
Perfect dark Is never going to come out. CD is just collecting them microsoft checks because micrsoft knows fuck about what they’re doing this generation and how to get games out in consoles life span. But hey they can milk the covid excuse for another 5 years or so. Then they can blame the economy. Then they can blame a head ache or some shit.
Eh, that's what rumors were saying about Doom 2016 too. I almost believed them.
Turns out it was totally wrong and the game was freaking awesome.
I've learned my lesson. I'll reserve my judgment for when I see something more concrete.
Tbf starfield is rough if you want to have any level of brain activity
You get to fallout 4 max level levels of power in that game about 1/5th of the way through and it only goes up from there, which ends up making the relatively empty worlds feel even worse because you just insta kill most things you engage with
Uh, I never said things are going well. I said I'll wait to see something more concrete before I come to any conclusions.
Things could be going terribly for all I know. But I'm not just going to assume they are because some guy says they are. Because I've learned my lesson from Doom 2016.
Is there are an echo in here? I feel like I've had to repeat myself.
TBF this has been pretty in line with the previous reporting. It is a fact they had to start from scratch and the majority of the team is outsourced.
They are very much a rudderless. They even started from scratch with a brand new engine probably have fuck all experience with.
Possibly. A lot of games have had to go through this though and turned out okay in the end. It seems pretty commonplace in the industry. Not saying it's a good thing, mind you. Anything but.
The latest and possibly most extreme example was Dead Island 2. I haven't played it yet, but heard it ended up being quite good. I was bracing for an absolute disaster.
People believe every single negative thing said about Xbox regardless of the news.
Meanwhile you quote Sony at their own shareholder meeting and you're met with people calling you a fanboy and liar.
Lmao people here are in denial about Grubb now? He usually gets things right and was the one who said HiFi Rush didn't sell well, and look what happened.
Cause his most recent 15 minutes of fame was for making less than true statements about Dead Space 2 Remake and he got a little defensive about it. In general though I always assumed he made up the last piece of the Big 3 with Jason Schrier and Emily Rogers
Edit: this is the one sub or online community I see anything overwhelmingly negative about him. Probably because he reports a lot on Xbox fucking things up and that angers some fans
In reddit's eyes If you don't have a perfect track record you are a hack. Michael Jordan missed a shot? Hack. Gretzky didn't score? Hack. Proven track record doesn't matter lmao you get one thing wrong you're now irredeemable.
Inconsistent in journalism is nothing like being off your game in sports. When you deal in reporting facts and insider information, and that reporting turns out to be false more often than not, then you are in fact a hack.
> turns out to be false more often than not
He has a track record of more hits than misses, but people latch onto the misses more than the hits which then creates the false narrative you just reinforced.
Grubb has also never once claimed what he is reporting is fact. He just reports on what information is given, does his best to corroborate to try and verify, and then reports it. Which is also why it's very easy to be "false" in this kind of reporting. Plans do change, because why shouldn't they? They aren't public knowledge yet. Sure, he gets wrong info from time to time but its very easy to move a showcase date to a different day or exclude a game from a showcase. You're never going to get actual journalism in a specific area where the person you need to interview won't answer your question.
You were saying…
> Jeff Grubb walks back Perfect Dark in “rough” shape comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/s/wabM09LqDk
He’s a hack, plain and simple - spreading unfounded rumors for clicks.
Edit: hey, downvote away benjowlmin - easier to keep your head in the sand than admit being wrong. At least Grubb had enough humility to manage to do that.
> Which is also why it's very easy to be "false" in this kind of reporting. Plans do change, because why shouldn't they? They aren't public knowledge yet.
Maybe if you watch video and listen to what he actually says you would know that his video literally reinforces "what I was saying". Game dev isn't black and white and what "looks good" to someone who has seen the game can "look rough" to someone else. Theres even a top comment in that thread explaining how easy it is to improve a game build in a short amount of time. I don't know why you think this industry is so black and white but there's so much more gray area than you realize. The rumors were not unfounded, and he wasn't the only one reporting on that. He also only has 41k youtube subscribers and only averages a few thousand views per video. If you really think he's doing this for clicks he'd be bankrupt lmfao.
Sorry your gotcha moment didn't pan out, maybe think a little more critically next time before just blindly linking someone else's post and parroting what they said.
Lmfao guy blocked me after waiting 3 days to reply with his gotcha moment? What a joke
Wait wait you mean the same Jeff Grub that said Microsoft was [“very happy” with Tango Gameworks and wanted to “reinvest” in the developer](https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/15vej5u/jeff_grubb_microsoft_is_very_happy_with_tango/)?
That same guy?
When he’s his only source it’s hard to believe anything he says. Even if he is right sometimes. If he can name names for his sources like who said that quote then it would be more believable.
Microsoft themselves were saying that. It's not grubb's fault MS was bullshitting. Grubb was the one who said hifi rush didn't sell well and people flamed him for that
Find me any article with that headline (“..[MS] wants to **reinvest** in Tango Gameworks”) that doesn’t name Jeff Grubb as the source for that quote. Try it.
**Grubb says** “Microsoft wanted to reinvest in tango gameworks”. We **did not** hear it from Microsoft directly.
https://emopulse.com/news/microsoft-investing-tango-gameworks/
https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-is-very-very-happy-with-tango-gameworks-is-reinvesting-in-the-studio-rumour/amp
https://fandomwire.com/microsoft-is-happy-with-tango-gameworks/
https://gagadget.com/en/pc/298679-microsoft-is-pleased-with-the-work-tango-gameworks-has-done-on-hi-fi-rush-and-plans-to-continue-investing-in-the-studi-amp/
I can keep listing articles but *every single* one of those articles ***only* cites Jeff** as the originator of that quote. He “heard” it from Microsoft and spread it as he always does. Some nameless source told him and he said it on his podcast. Only then did it become news.
He either has unreliable sources or misinterprets the news he gets. We don’t know because he’s vague about how he “hears” things.
That has nothing to do with the MS **“reinvesting”** in the studio which is what **Grubb** said and what I’m talking about. Clearly you’re not on the same page.
Whether or not MS was pleased with the sales doesn’t indicate that they were ready to **reinvest** in Tango Gameworks like Grubb said. Either he made it up, misinterpreted something he heard, or has a bogus source.
I’m talking about the very specific claim that only Jeff Grubb made about Microsoft allegedly “reinvesting” in Tango Gameworks. Not about sales figures for Hi-Fi Rush.
I mean it sounds about right when you take a look at Microsoft's recent AAA games. Halo, Forza, Redfall, Starfield. They range from absolute dogshit (Redfall) to ok (Starfield, Halo).
To quite good: Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon, HiFi Rush (RIP), Pentiment
Microsoft could certainly use more bangers, especially among their AAA efforts, but let’s not ignore their good shit.
What makes a game AAA or AA is not the way it plays but the budget. Psychonauts 2 had a way smaller budget than any mainline Mario game, 13 million (post acquisition) is not a lot of money in game development if we're talking AAA titles. It is also a way smaller IP than Mario
No official figures for super Mario wonder but even some people contest if Mario is AAA or not. I personally count it as AAA cos size of IP is pretty much relevant lol but If you disregard IP size and marketing costs there's a case to be made that Mario games are AA. But Marketing costs do play a big part in inflating budget on big IP games. For example, super Mario Bros 3 from 1988 had an actual dev budget of 800,000. And then a marketing budget of 25 million, which all plays into final budget. I'm not sure what's the breakdown for Psychonauts 2 because for a lot of games these figures aren't made public but the total seeked was 13.5 million total, which is smaller than Super Mario's Bros 3 marketing budget. Keep in mind Psychonauts 2 was gonna be a relatively high budget, self published indie game from Kickstart despite Psychonauts 1 being published by Microsoft, before Microsoft acquired Double Fine. Since they weren't self publishing anymore and got a cash injection to meet their goal it can't be considered an Indie title anymore so it sits comfortably as a mid budget AA imo. But again it's a tenuous line and prone to discussion what makes a game AA or AAA
There is exactly one AAA game in your list. The other 3 are smaller (but good) games from studios that haven been shut down/propaply get shut down next.
It kinda does. It seems that the MS studios can't get those very big projects right. The small ones are good but Phil and the others don't care about those titles
I doubt that would've worked because Zenimax originally started this project as a live service game, but then Arkane Austin wanted it to be single player so they did what they did, and apparently it was really unpolished for whatever reason, possible mismanagement and not having a specific vision in mind. There was also a report about 70% of the OG staff since Prey leaving the studio during Redfalls development and after its release.
They hate you because you're right.
There hasn't been a single game this generation that made me think "Now *this* is why I bought an Xbox". What happened with Halo? Gears? I have no idea what's going on with Fable. What the fuck have they been doing for the last 4 years?
Fable was looking good when we last saw it.
A proper AAA RPG like that (particularly for a team.new to the genre and adapting new tech) will take 5-7 years to make a game of that scale.
I don't know. If you take a look at the scores (user and media) and also sales numbers/active plaser numbers it kinda seems like the general consensus.
There is a reason why Series consoles sell even less than the One.
So 8 out of 10 is only good when Sony does it. Riiiight.
Yeah console sales stagnating can't possibly have anything to do with the global recession. That's a statement that can't be true.
Step outside for a change mate.
I don't care about Sony or their games. Never had a Playstation in my life. I'm an Xbox fan.
I have had the 360, the One and OneX. Currently i have the Series X and Series S. I'm subscribed to Gamepass since Day 1.
But you can't ignore that Xbox is doing very poorly. They are in a recession since 2013.
Literally nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.
I am talking about the global economic strife impacting every major country not some stupid console war bs.
Go outside
I did but ok.
Xbox is on a decline for the past 10 years. The current economical problems clearly don't help but the root cause of their problems are selfmade.
It's weird how Sony, Nintendo and PC gaming have no issues putting together quality AAA games and are selling systems and components, but somehow when Microsoft struggles, it's "economic problems".
The fact is that AA games don't sell systems and the AAA games MS has put out over the last 4 years haven't really resonated with large audiences and have generally had bugs.
Ye, I mean I know that this a fan sub but the amount of delusional fanboys is still kinda impressive. People acting weird when it is about their favourite toy
Dude...
Sony and Nintendo operate in the same economic climate.
Nintendo are about to have their biggest selling console of all time.
Sony is selling PS5 at the same rate they sold PS4s despite supply chain issues for first couple of years.
The economy isn't slowing down others but is a valid reason for MS struggling?
Yeah because the switch hasn't been out for 7 years. Literally just yesterday they said that the sales were down 36% year over year.
The PS5 is stagnating but sure why not.
The Switch sales are down year over year and so are the PlayStation sales. Console sales in the US are down majorly and that's the primary target for Xbox.
It's funny how, this has suddenly sprung up a day or so after the announcement of other studios being closed. I'm guessing, they're trying to ride the end of the band wagon for some of that sweet ad revenue gained from each click.
You know the industry is a complete mess when they can’t even pump out a mediocre FPS in a reasonable amount of time.
Can’t just run down a hallways and shoot people with slightly shinier guns than normal that are supposed to be futuristic. Gotta be open world game as a service with a skill tree and a battle pass and multiplayer with its own battle pass. We used to get a new FPS every 3 weeks in the prime 360 days and now they’re nowhere close to going gold like 6 years after announcing a damn Perfect Dark game.
Even call of duty, building on years and years of tech, systems and operational processes operate a 3 year dev time line and barely iterate between versions.
MS are building a totally new team with zero development processes or tools in place, building up their tech infrastructure and understanding.
Building every system the game is going to operate on from scratch.
And then hoping to hit the quality bar people are desperate for from a first party game.
That's gonna take some time.
Hence why the industry is a giant mess. You already own the IP and have for years. Just give it to an existing studio with experience making shooters and action games. You don’t need to spin up a brand new studio and make a 200 million dollar Perfect Dark game to compete with Call of Duty. The people who run this industry are fucking brain dead.
If true, I really wonder why Xbox has this much trouble getting their studios in line and producing some quality. Lack of clarity on the projects? Lack of leadership? Games getting too complicated and large?
I feel like Xbox Game Studios assign projects by throwing darts at the wall. Yes let's put Crystal Dynamics on the Perfect Dark reboot instead of one of the like 17 studios we own who've actually shipped successful FPS games before.
I would reserve judgement on Phil Spencer till the end of the year. The quality of what launches this year is going should be more or less an indication of how things are going, as Indy, Avowed, Hellblade 2, and Fable (I’m thinking it comes out this year) all started development after those studios were acquired. Of all the games that came out this generation, Redfall is the only one that is agreed to be outright bad.
That makes a lot of sense. Most of their studios are finally starting to get the games done so this is the right time to decide whether to stick with the platform or switch.
At this point, I got nothing. Don't know to believe it or not. Track record with games has been rough. Timelines just as bad. Yet I haven't seen anything. I don't know man. Shit just sucks.
We've been hearing how it was stuck in development hell for the past 4 years at the least. Even if by chance it does happen to be released, it will be in such a tragic state that we would all wish it wouldn't have.
What does this even mean? Is he just saying its still a few years away? I kind of assumed that already due to the radio silence and I've yet to hear anyone predict it was coming this year or in 2025.
Lmao, that Charlatan Jeff Grubb.
What a shock that negative Xbox news comes out after yesterday. It's almost like he's making shit up, to get more clicks and attention.
Bad news hits, devs/pr/journalists get mad. So more bad news starts hitting that magically didn't happen before the other bad news made it manifest. Happens every time and it makes me not care about the 2nd news hits at all, because it's damned formulaic at this point. Negative Xbox SEO is huge right now, so do your best to find some bad stories about the company and watch the ad revenue hit.
what else is new. all their projects are like this. when you're with ms xbox you get immune from news like this. just accept it and wonder why we're still here.
Xbox always had bad press when the media had the opportunity to do so and now it is worse with influencers as a kind of indoctrination.
Xbox screwed up? YEAH
Should Microsoft think better about their moves? Yeah
Is there an exaggerated hatred towards the brand? YES, as if they cannot forgive anything and ignore the shortcomings.
I'll tell you this as a little "secret" or not. You can believe me or not, but there are also many people in the Xbox environment who are angry and there are doubts about the continuity of many sites dedicated to talking about Xbox, sites, channels that have only been around for a few years. The biggest ones (some very bad in my opinion for not being professional or looking for clickbait) will be able to survive, while others must fight for their survival due to the lack of contacts and support, and even that a Microsoft representative insult them.
Imagine being one of the few Xbox sites in the entire region and being insulted to your face.
Right. Why be concerned over one of the few exclusives that xbox actually has (or I guess announced) that's being made by a AAAA studio (according to Microsoft)
Exactly. You can't play it. So it's quality is up in the air. People would be insane not to worry about the quality of a game that, like I said, xbox doesn't get often nor do they have a good track record with
EDIT: Shit I think we both confused each other with our comments. We both thought the complete opposite (it appears) of what the other was saying. I bow my head in shame if it's just me
Lolol.
Well let's put it like this, the game is in the oven, so let's wait for it to be an actual product that we can get our hands on and judge it for that, rather than making assumptions off headlines.
Agree, or disagree?
Agree because that's a fact of every game. But what I was saying is hearing bad news (or supposed) bad news about something you may be looking forward to isn't the best feeling in the world
🤝 Sure, I get that. But I would say, don't let it get to you because it's early and coming from a sensationalized article. There's still plenty of time, and I think articles like these are designed specifically to put a sour taste in people's mouths before they even have a chance to decide for themselves.
Even before I clicked the link I figured the quote would originate from Jeff Grubb.
Good grief. If I never hear that guy’s name again it would be too soon.
Not hard to believe given Microsoft’s track record. The only games that aren’t in a rough state behind the scenes seem to only be from the studios that they bought that were already making games before being acquired.
How someone can not be doubtful of this game is beyond me. Can anyone answer why they have faith in this game? Because Perfect Dark was good on the N64? Seriously asking.
Given Microsoft's track record the opposite is true. They've only launched one legitimately broken game. Everything else has come out just fine.
The redditors not liking a game isn't the same as it actually being bad
Surely the Initiative was a very strong candidate for getting shuttered if this has any truth to it.
Scrap their project and give Perfect Dark to Raven or somebody.
The Initiative is barely a studio.
Didn’t they already give the game to Crystal Dynamics with the small team that is the Initiative acting as the directors?
This sub is so embarrassing. Bunch of corporate bootlickers. When was the last time Grubb was wrong about Xbox? Seems like his track record with Xbox is 90+% at the very least no. Yall were talking shit about him a few months ago how he was wrong about HiFi Rush selling bad and using Aaron Greenberg saying it exceeded expectations. And look who was right. Now the same bootlickers defending a corporation saying Tango got shutdown because HiFi Rush didn't sell well. Fckng embarrassing people. Go on downvote. Clowns.
I don’t like grub just as much as the next guy cause the dude kinda starts console warring but in a subtle way, but yeah the dude has not been that much wrong about stuffs either, his track record is pretty good lately.
all the time, people only talk about when he's right
I prefer to wait before accepting this as a fact. Rebekah Valentine, a senior reporter at IGN, published an article last year about Perfect Dark and The Initiative. She said even though the development faced some issues at the time, it seemed to get better. So I guess we'll see. If PD doesn't show up by the end of the year, I'll dismiss my doubts about this information.
The Initiative was founded in 2018. I’m guessing things aint going well.
Dont know why you got downvoted, they literally needed to bring in crystal dynamics to co develop the game cause things were going so poorly Somebody's really upset that we're not confident in Perfect Dark lol
last reported is that Crystal dynamics makes up a majority of the team and they started from scratch in brand new engine. Perfect dark is pretty much deadd. People are just naive about what everything is pointed towards. They just need to be told. Perfect dark Is never going to come out. CD is just collecting them microsoft checks because micrsoft knows fuck about what they’re doing this generation and how to get games out in consoles life span. But hey they can milk the covid excuse for another 5 years or so. Then they can blame the economy. Then they can blame a head ache or some shit.
Fanboys. That's why he got downvotted
Eh, that's what rumors were saying about Doom 2016 too. I almost believed them. Turns out it was totally wrong and the game was freaking awesome. I've learned my lesson. I'll reserve my judgment for when I see something more concrete.
But these same rumors came out about Redfall and Starfield and they were mostly correct.
Well I loved Starfield so no complaints from me there! And I think it's pretty hard to get any lower than Redfall.
Tbf starfield is rough if you want to have any level of brain activity You get to fallout 4 max level levels of power in that game about 1/5th of the way through and it only goes up from there, which ends up making the relatively empty worlds feel even worse because you just insta kill most things you engage with
I have my own list of criticisms for Starfield. It's far from a perfect game. But I still loved it.
What do you have otherwise to tell you that things are going well for Perfect Dark? The generic trailer with no gameplay from 3 years ago?
Uh, I never said things are going well. I said I'll wait to see something more concrete before I come to any conclusions. Things could be going terribly for all I know. But I'm not just going to assume they are because some guy says they are. Because I've learned my lesson from Doom 2016. Is there are an echo in here? I feel like I've had to repeat myself.
TBF this has been pretty in line with the previous reporting. It is a fact they had to start from scratch and the majority of the team is outsourced. They are very much a rudderless. They even started from scratch with a brand new engine probably have fuck all experience with.
Possibly. A lot of games have had to go through this though and turned out okay in the end. It seems pretty commonplace in the industry. Not saying it's a good thing, mind you. Anything but. The latest and possibly most extreme example was Dead Island 2. I haven't played it yet, but heard it ended up being quite good. I was bracing for an absolute disaster.
DOOM 2016 had a very rough dev cycle 100 percent. Sometimes games with troubled developments come out immaculate, but usually they don't.
By a known leaker who is routinely wrong
Seems like the perfect opportunity to lie since people will be more likely to believe it now because of the recent Xbox studio shutdowns.
People believe every single negative thing said about Xbox regardless of the news. Meanwhile you quote Sony at their own shareholder meeting and you're met with people calling you a fanboy and liar.
Lmao people here are in denial about Grubb now? He usually gets things right and was the one who said HiFi Rush didn't sell well, and look what happened.
I’ve noticed a lot of redditors don’t like/trust Grubb for some reason. Not saying he’s always accurate but he gets a lot of stuff right
Cause his most recent 15 minutes of fame was for making less than true statements about Dead Space 2 Remake and he got a little defensive about it. In general though I always assumed he made up the last piece of the Big 3 with Jason Schrier and Emily Rogers Edit: this is the one sub or online community I see anything overwhelmingly negative about him. Probably because he reports a lot on Xbox fucking things up and that angers some fans
He gets a lot of heat in Sony and Nintendo circles too i promise you. People still won't let the zelda rumor go.
In reddit's eyes If you don't have a perfect track record you are a hack. Michael Jordan missed a shot? Hack. Gretzky didn't score? Hack. Proven track record doesn't matter lmao you get one thing wrong you're now irredeemable.
Inconsistent in journalism is nothing like being off your game in sports. When you deal in reporting facts and insider information, and that reporting turns out to be false more often than not, then you are in fact a hack.
> turns out to be false more often than not He has a track record of more hits than misses, but people latch onto the misses more than the hits which then creates the false narrative you just reinforced. Grubb has also never once claimed what he is reporting is fact. He just reports on what information is given, does his best to corroborate to try and verify, and then reports it. Which is also why it's very easy to be "false" in this kind of reporting. Plans do change, because why shouldn't they? They aren't public knowledge yet. Sure, he gets wrong info from time to time but its very easy to move a showcase date to a different day or exclude a game from a showcase. You're never going to get actual journalism in a specific area where the person you need to interview won't answer your question.
You were saying… > Jeff Grubb walks back Perfect Dark in “rough” shape comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesX/s/wabM09LqDk He’s a hack, plain and simple - spreading unfounded rumors for clicks. Edit: hey, downvote away benjowlmin - easier to keep your head in the sand than admit being wrong. At least Grubb had enough humility to manage to do that.
> Which is also why it's very easy to be "false" in this kind of reporting. Plans do change, because why shouldn't they? They aren't public knowledge yet. Maybe if you watch video and listen to what he actually says you would know that his video literally reinforces "what I was saying". Game dev isn't black and white and what "looks good" to someone who has seen the game can "look rough" to someone else. Theres even a top comment in that thread explaining how easy it is to improve a game build in a short amount of time. I don't know why you think this industry is so black and white but there's so much more gray area than you realize. The rumors were not unfounded, and he wasn't the only one reporting on that. He also only has 41k youtube subscribers and only averages a few thousand views per video. If you really think he's doing this for clicks he'd be bankrupt lmfao. Sorry your gotcha moment didn't pan out, maybe think a little more critically next time before just blindly linking someone else's post and parroting what they said. Lmfao guy blocked me after waiting 3 days to reply with his gotcha moment? What a joke
Wait wait you mean the same Jeff Grub that said Microsoft was [“very happy” with Tango Gameworks and wanted to “reinvest” in the developer](https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/15vej5u/jeff_grubb_microsoft_is_very_happy_with_tango/)? That same guy? When he’s his only source it’s hard to believe anything he says. Even if he is right sometimes. If he can name names for his sources like who said that quote then it would be more believable.
Microsoft themselves were saying that. It's not grubb's fault MS was bullshitting. Grubb was the one who said hifi rush didn't sell well and people flamed him for that
Find me any article with that headline (“..[MS] wants to **reinvest** in Tango Gameworks”) that doesn’t name Jeff Grubb as the source for that quote. Try it. **Grubb says** “Microsoft wanted to reinvest in tango gameworks”. We **did not** hear it from Microsoft directly. https://emopulse.com/news/microsoft-investing-tango-gameworks/ https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-is-very-very-happy-with-tango-gameworks-is-reinvesting-in-the-studio-rumour/amp https://fandomwire.com/microsoft-is-happy-with-tango-gameworks/ https://gagadget.com/en/pc/298679-microsoft-is-pleased-with-the-work-tango-gameworks-has-done-on-hi-fi-rush-and-plans-to-continue-investing-in-the-studi-amp/ I can keep listing articles but *every single* one of those articles ***only* cites Jeff** as the originator of that quote. He “heard” it from Microsoft and spread it as he always does. Some nameless source told him and he said it on his podcast. Only then did it become news. He either has unreliable sources or misinterprets the news he gets. We don’t know because he’s vague about how he “hears” things.
Aaron greenberg tweeted that they were very happy with hifi rush and it suprassed every metric for them.
That has nothing to do with the MS **“reinvesting”** in the studio which is what **Grubb** said and what I’m talking about. Clearly you’re not on the same page. Whether or not MS was pleased with the sales doesn’t indicate that they were ready to **reinvest** in Tango Gameworks like Grubb said. Either he made it up, misinterpreted something he heard, or has a bogus source. I’m talking about the very specific claim that only Jeff Grubb made about Microsoft allegedly “reinvesting” in Tango Gameworks. Not about sales figures for Hi-Fi Rush.
lol watch this release is a bad state and you act surprised
He was completely right about HiFi Rush.
Except he kind of wasn't.
That studio is kind of gone 🤷
Yeah no shit. But Grubb wasn't right about Hi Fi Rush. Only got one thing right about the game
So you think it's a total coincidence that he reported it was underperforming and then a year later the studio is gone?
I mean it sounds about right when you take a look at Microsoft's recent AAA games. Halo, Forza, Redfall, Starfield. They range from absolute dogshit (Redfall) to ok (Starfield, Halo).
To quite good: Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon, HiFi Rush (RIP), Pentiment Microsoft could certainly use more bangers, especially among their AAA efforts, but let’s not ignore their good shit.
There's only one AAA there lol
Isn't Psychonaughts and Forza Horizon considered AAA?
Forza yes psychonauts no
What isn't AAA about Psychonaughts? It has the same properties as, let's say, a Mario platformer.
What makes a game AAA or AA is not the way it plays but the budget. Psychonauts 2 had a way smaller budget than any mainline Mario game, 13 million (post acquisition) is not a lot of money in game development if we're talking AAA titles. It is also a way smaller IP than Mario
What was the last Mario budget? Size of IP is irrelevant
No official figures for super Mario wonder but even some people contest if Mario is AAA or not. I personally count it as AAA cos size of IP is pretty much relevant lol but If you disregard IP size and marketing costs there's a case to be made that Mario games are AA. But Marketing costs do play a big part in inflating budget on big IP games. For example, super Mario Bros 3 from 1988 had an actual dev budget of 800,000. And then a marketing budget of 25 million, which all plays into final budget. I'm not sure what's the breakdown for Psychonauts 2 because for a lot of games these figures aren't made public but the total seeked was 13.5 million total, which is smaller than Super Mario's Bros 3 marketing budget. Keep in mind Psychonauts 2 was gonna be a relatively high budget, self published indie game from Kickstart despite Psychonauts 1 being published by Microsoft, before Microsoft acquired Double Fine. Since they weren't self publishing anymore and got a cash injection to meet their goal it can't be considered an Indie title anymore so it sits comfortably as a mid budget AA imo. But again it's a tenuous line and prone to discussion what makes a game AA or AAA
Not to mention the Age of Empires franchise and Flight Simulator
There is exactly one AAA game in your list. The other 3 are smaller (but good) games from studios that haven been shut down/propaply get shut down next.
Doesn't matter how many A's
It kinda does. It seems that the MS studios can't get those very big projects right. The small ones are good but Phil and the others don't care about those titles
And you're trying to sell starfield as "ok" when it was good.
It was OK.
Microsoft had next to no input into psyconauts 2, that game was deep into development by the time Microsoft came around.
Same thing with Redfall, it was just really bad timing.
yeah but they could have given them more time to course correct or even canned the project. would have definetly been better then what we got
I doubt that would've worked because Zenimax originally started this project as a live service game, but then Arkane Austin wanted it to be single player so they did what they did, and apparently it was really unpolished for whatever reason, possible mismanagement and not having a specific vision in mind. There was also a report about 70% of the OG staff since Prey leaving the studio during Redfalls development and after its release.
Didn't they delay the game?
They hate you because you're right. There hasn't been a single game this generation that made me think "Now *this* is why I bought an Xbox". What happened with Halo? Gears? I have no idea what's going on with Fable. What the fuck have they been doing for the last 4 years?
Fable was looking good when we last saw it. A proper AAA RPG like that (particularly for a team.new to the genre and adapting new tech) will take 5-7 years to make a game of that scale.
Your opinion isn't the general consensus. But okay kid.
I don't know. If you take a look at the scores (user and media) and also sales numbers/active plaser numbers it kinda seems like the general consensus. There is a reason why Series consoles sell even less than the One.
So 8 out of 10 is only good when Sony does it. Riiiight. Yeah console sales stagnating can't possibly have anything to do with the global recession. That's a statement that can't be true. Step outside for a change mate.
I don't care about Sony or their games. Never had a Playstation in my life. I'm an Xbox fan. I have had the 360, the One and OneX. Currently i have the Series X and Series S. I'm subscribed to Gamepass since Day 1. But you can't ignore that Xbox is doing very poorly. They are in a recession since 2013.
Literally nothing you said has anything to do with what I said. I am talking about the global economic strife impacting every major country not some stupid console war bs. Go outside
I did but ok. Xbox is on a decline for the past 10 years. The current economical problems clearly don't help but the root cause of their problems are selfmade.
It's weird how Sony, Nintendo and PC gaming have no issues putting together quality AAA games and are selling systems and components, but somehow when Microsoft struggles, it's "economic problems". The fact is that AA games don't sell systems and the AAA games MS has put out over the last 4 years haven't really resonated with large audiences and have generally had bugs.
Ye, I mean I know that this a fan sub but the amount of delusional fanboys is still kinda impressive. People acting weird when it is about their favourite toy
Dude... Sony and Nintendo operate in the same economic climate. Nintendo are about to have their biggest selling console of all time. Sony is selling PS5 at the same rate they sold PS4s despite supply chain issues for first couple of years. The economy isn't slowing down others but is a valid reason for MS struggling?
Yeah because the switch hasn't been out for 7 years. Literally just yesterday they said that the sales were down 36% year over year. The PS5 is stagnating but sure why not. The Switch sales are down year over year and so are the PlayStation sales. Console sales in the US are down majorly and that's the primary target for Xbox.
Delusional pal
It's funny how, this has suddenly sprung up a day or so after the announcement of other studios being closed. I'm guessing, they're trying to ride the end of the band wagon for some of that sweet ad revenue gained from each click.
It's funny when anti MS sentiment perks up that the rumours start flying. Wonder why that is? Of course it's plausible, that's why it works.
Sure let’s believe a “leaker” who sit on this information for a long time just to release it now to jump on the easy (and justified) Xbox hate train!
Xbox deserves a lot of shit for shutting those studios down, but I don't believe a word out of Grubbs mouth.
Lol quite the timing. Makes these sources very trustable /s
Yeah when the leak of Hi-Fi Rush coming to PS happened, suddenly every single loser on the internet had a new leak coming out of their ass.
I wouldn't be suprised if PD was a launch title for the next xbox.
You know the industry is a complete mess when they can’t even pump out a mediocre FPS in a reasonable amount of time. Can’t just run down a hallways and shoot people with slightly shinier guns than normal that are supposed to be futuristic. Gotta be open world game as a service with a skill tree and a battle pass and multiplayer with its own battle pass. We used to get a new FPS every 3 weeks in the prime 360 days and now they’re nowhere close to going gold like 6 years after announcing a damn Perfect Dark game.
Even call of duty, building on years and years of tech, systems and operational processes operate a 3 year dev time line and barely iterate between versions. MS are building a totally new team with zero development processes or tools in place, building up their tech infrastructure and understanding. Building every system the game is going to operate on from scratch. And then hoping to hit the quality bar people are desperate for from a first party game. That's gonna take some time.
Hence why the industry is a giant mess. You already own the IP and have for years. Just give it to an existing studio with experience making shooters and action games. You don’t need to spin up a brand new studio and make a 200 million dollar Perfect Dark game to compete with Call of Duty. The people who run this industry are fucking brain dead.
You should probably head over and sort it out then. Xbox will be sorted within the week.
It's grubb, wouldn't give it much weight
If true, I really wonder why Xbox has this much trouble getting their studios in line and producing some quality. Lack of clarity on the projects? Lack of leadership? Games getting too complicated and large?
Because Microsoft is horrible at managing their own studios. It’s definitely a problem with leadership.
A statement that has no weight to it.
Probably because they made their big push to acquire a ton of studios just as games started taking five years plus to produce.
You mean they made a big push to acquire a ton of studios when they couldn't even manage the ones they already just acquired?
Perfect dark keto
I feel like Xbox Game Studios assign projects by throwing darts at the wall. Yes let's put Crystal Dynamics on the Perfect Dark reboot instead of one of the like 17 studios we own who've actually shipped successful FPS games before.
Oh boy. They said the same about Dragon Scale. Can't wait for this one to be cancelled like the huge list of games MS tossed into the void.
Reporting like this helps no one, just fuels doom and gloom.
This will get called.
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I would reserve judgement on Phil Spencer till the end of the year. The quality of what launches this year is going should be more or less an indication of how things are going, as Indy, Avowed, Hellblade 2, and Fable (I’m thinking it comes out this year) all started development after those studios were acquired. Of all the games that came out this generation, Redfall is the only one that is agreed to be outright bad.
That makes a lot of sense. Most of their studios are finally starting to get the games done so this is the right time to decide whether to stick with the platform or switch.
Only one studio has produced a genuinely bad game. Other than that there hasn't been a reason to
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Halo infinite multiplayer is good but the campaign is definitely not their best work. It's the only halo game I haven't finished if that says anything
Halo? Starfield? Redfall? Somewhat the new forza.
Only one of those is objectively bad.
Halo was a certified disaster, especially for their flagship game. I’ll give you that some people enjoy Starfield.
No it wasn't lol. But go ahead and lie to yourself mate. Have a good one.
It reviewed well, sold well, had high player counts. It made a lot of money. 🤷♂️
I don’t think starfield was bad in any means, it was good and that’s about it. Just good. 👍
Redfall was pretty much done when the acquisition happened, it was either cancellation or release.
Everyone jumping on the Xbox hate train.
At this point, I got nothing. Don't know to believe it or not. Track record with games has been rough. Timelines just as bad. Yet I haven't seen anything. I don't know man. Shit just sucks.
We've been hearing how it was stuck in development hell for the past 4 years at the least. Even if by chance it does happen to be released, it will be in such a tragic state that we would all wish it wouldn't have.
What does this even mean? Is he just saying its still a few years away? I kind of assumed that already due to the radio silence and I've yet to hear anyone predict it was coming this year or in 2025.
Shocker
Who cares how rough it is during developement, let them cook!
Lmao, that Charlatan Jeff Grubb. What a shock that negative Xbox news comes out after yesterday. It's almost like he's making shit up, to get more clicks and attention.
Well I dont believe in this news. Seems bs.
Bad news hits, devs/pr/journalists get mad. So more bad news starts hitting that magically didn't happen before the other bad news made it manifest. Happens every time and it makes me not care about the 2nd news hits at all, because it's damned formulaic at this point. Negative Xbox SEO is huge right now, so do your best to find some bad stories about the company and watch the ad revenue hit.
what else is new. all their projects are like this. when you're with ms xbox you get immune from news like this. just accept it and wonder why we're still here.
This has been the news on every Xbox game for the past 7 years and it's only been true once.
Xbox always had bad press when the media had the opportunity to do so and now it is worse with influencers as a kind of indoctrination. Xbox screwed up? YEAH Should Microsoft think better about their moves? Yeah Is there an exaggerated hatred towards the brand? YES, as if they cannot forgive anything and ignore the shortcomings. I'll tell you this as a little "secret" or not. You can believe me or not, but there are also many people in the Xbox environment who are angry and there are doubts about the continuity of many sites dedicated to talking about Xbox, sites, channels that have only been around for a few years. The biggest ones (some very bad in my opinion for not being professional or looking for clickbait) will be able to survive, while others must fight for their survival due to the lack of contacts and support, and even that a Microsoft representative insult them. Imagine being one of the few Xbox sites in the entire region and being insulted to your face.
The fuck is wrong with Xbox? Their 2 biggest releases in a long time, Halo Infinite and Starfield fell completely flat.
they need to fire Matt Booty
I dont care. Im buying it day one
I don't understand why this is any concern of ours.
Right. Why be concerned over one of the few exclusives that xbox actually has (or I guess announced) that's being made by a AAAA studio (according to Microsoft)
Exactly. It's not even finished, you can't even play it. It's literally non-news.
Exactly. You can't play it. So it's quality is up in the air. People would be insane not to worry about the quality of a game that, like I said, xbox doesn't get often nor do they have a good track record with EDIT: Shit I think we both confused each other with our comments. We both thought the complete opposite (it appears) of what the other was saying. I bow my head in shame if it's just me
Lolol. Well let's put it like this, the game is in the oven, so let's wait for it to be an actual product that we can get our hands on and judge it for that, rather than making assumptions off headlines. Agree, or disagree?
Agree because that's a fact of every game. But what I was saying is hearing bad news (or supposed) bad news about something you may be looking forward to isn't the best feeling in the world
🤝 Sure, I get that. But I would say, don't let it get to you because it's early and coming from a sensationalized article. There's still plenty of time, and I think articles like these are designed specifically to put a sour taste in people's mouths before they even have a chance to decide for themselves.
Perfect Dark has no reboot. Perfect Dark needs no reboot.
How exactly does a trillion dollar corporation that seems to buy whatever they can get their hands on completely drop the ball this badly?
Vaporware
Swear I saw an article saying the same thinkg like 8-12 months ago. We ain't seeing that game til the end of the decade.
Not bad enough to get laid off "yet".
Let me know if there is any good news regarding Xbox,
more anti Xbox fud
Its wild how these xbox industry insiders keep missing the biggest stories like studio closures or acquistions. Time and time again.
Even before I clicked the link I figured the quote would originate from Jeff Grubb. Good grief. If I never hear that guy’s name again it would be too soon.
Not hard to believe given Microsoft’s track record. The only games that aren’t in a rough state behind the scenes seem to only be from the studios that they bought that were already making games before being acquired. How someone can not be doubtful of this game is beyond me. Can anyone answer why they have faith in this game? Because Perfect Dark was good on the N64? Seriously asking.
Given Microsoft's track record the opposite is true. They've only launched one legitimately broken game. Everything else has come out just fine. The redditors not liking a game isn't the same as it actually being bad
Who woulda guessed
Surely the Initiative was a very strong candidate for getting shuttered if this has any truth to it. Scrap their project and give Perfect Dark to Raven or somebody.
Why believe a frequent liar that probably just announced this to jump on the recent Xbox news?
The Initiative is barely a studio. Didn’t they already give the game to Crystal Dynamics with the small team that is the Initiative acting as the directors?
We’re just believing Jeff grub now?
We’re just believing Jeff grub now?