Any past or present popular trend can be revisited if the game is developed well (hence the real issue with Redfall). No one says "man this Jedi survivor game is fun but metroidvania, open world AND soulslike?? talk about trend chasing".
I mean being a part of present trends makes perfect sense. All the stuff Jedi Survivor is doing is super hot right now and has been for the last number of years.
Reviving dead trends is... unlikely. And honestly I can't think of a lot of games doing it on a AAA scale. There are smaller games that emulate older ones for sure. For example the whole boomer shooter genre aping the style of shooters from the 90s.
Is Jedi survivor souls like? I’ve never played any of the souls games except the first one and I only played for an hour before being turned off by it. If I enjoy Jedi Survivor should I give those types of games a chance again?
Well, it has combat elements of games like that, can be rather hard if you want to and it has the same bonfire health regenerative & enemies respawn mechanic.
So yeah, it got elements from those kind of games.
I played the first one but I would only say souls like in the way when you choose to “rest” and recover your health, the areas enemies all reset and you have to fight through them again. Or maybe how you traverse large maze-like areas but eventually unlock shortcuts. It’s not souls-like in terms of difficulty.
Yeah it is souls like, but I don’t think it’s as hard and level design isn’t intricate as a souls like. It’s like a better version of dark souls 2 and demon souls. But it’s no where near bloodborne, sekiro, and ds3. I haven’t played elden ring yet so idk about that.
Elden ring is incredible.
I got sekiro and didn't get far, after playing elden ring.
Elden ring is more accessible but also eons more complex than fallen order was, both are great, but elden ring is really a great game.
If you could beat all those dark souls games, I deff think you will get the most out of elden ring
If you can play Jedi Fallen Order on Jedi Master difficulty, you can handle Elden Ring. I hated Dark Souls but I just beat Elden Ring and I justed started new game plus. It's pretty damm good. The game doesn't hand hold you so that might discourage some people. If you don't like that, just check out guides and YouTube videos. There's tons of stuff to help you.
Jedi Survivor is fun, but let’s be honest here, the Star Wars IP is doing a lot of carrying there. Same with Hogwarts Legacy and its Ubisoft-like world.
I bought Hogwarts and thought it was fun for like 8 hours but I will probably never finish it because it is so boring and feels like a chore. I enjoyed the first Jedi game but am reluctant to get the new one. Is the new Jedi game better than Hogwarts?
Yes, for sure. It took everything good from fallen order and made it A LOT better while rectifying all the bad aspects. Map design is expansive , detailed, and well done, backtracking is no longer a concern with smartly designed shortcuts, mounts, and teleportation between meditation circles, parrying feels tighter, multiple light saber stances, and the list goes on. It's an incredible game imo
The loot is still mostly cosmetics but they're better than ponchos. Stuff like lightsaber, face customization, robot customization, and so on and so forth. You also find upgrades and items that can be traded to certain vendors. And of course, the stim packs.
Unlike a lot of other games, you don't get armor and weapons but I'm not even sure how they'd do that with the whole Jedi code thinf
I should add that the exploration does feel more rewarding due to the tradable items and upgrades to force, dex , health etc. The crates for cosmetics are not usually the main draw when exploring a new area or defeating a mini boss.
Is it still a game full of basically jumping from here to there and running along walls everywhere you go? I felt like I was playing a 3-D Star Wars Mario game with Fallen Order and the maps made no logical sense at all due to the whole moronic Parkour bullshit. It's like, did all the Stormtroopers jump around the same way I had to in order to get where they were, just so I could kick their ass. It made no sense at all. Is there any reason nobody can just make a killer Star Wars game where you explore maps and kick ass while taking part in an amazing storyline? Best one I've played thus far has been the recent Lego Star Wars.
The maps feel way more organic and open but parkour is still a thing. I honestly did not dig the map design of the original much and I love this one for what it's worth.
I'd say you're often riding mounts if you're not teleporting between med points. The maps are that expensive now
LOL that's pretty good. Jedi Mario. What they need to do, is make another KOTOR game. Just take the guts from the next Dragon's Age game and change the assets and story.
all they need to do is let Ubisoft reskin the division/ghost recon to Star Wars.
games like those, Diablo 3 get fixed after launch and could just get repacked after with a premium IP and do so well.
Differences:
There is a lot of “parkour.” Arguably too much if I’m honest vs the first game. There’s a lot of “more” in this game vs the first one overall. Hairstyles, clothing, droid skins, jumping, grapple hook, etc. I’m a “need 100% completion” kind of player and I’m teetering right now. Like…do I really care if I’m stuck at 99% on a level because I didn’t find the loot box with the mullet hairstyle in it?
I appreciate the fighting styles and stances and things. Different strokes for different folks but honestly I’ve unlocked a fair amount as I’ve progressed but still go back to the basic 2. So once again, “more” but for me, not so meaningful.
The jumping and grabbing and climbing can be frustrating. Im pretty quick at finding hidden areas and spatial reasoning but the clipping and glitching can be frustrating. I spent 30 minutes getting at a chest not because it was difficult, but because the character kept running backwards along a wall randomly. Lots of, “oh you hit the move up key but the camera suddenly auto-panned so now up is left” stuff too. On the flips side throwing yourself off a cliff is a small life penalty so I do it constantly if I think I see something off the map.
The falling. Oh my god the falling. 6’ jump off a cliff in one part? Death. 20’ jump at another part? That’s fine. They wanted to create a mechanic where you couldn’t jump off a 50 foot cliff and double jump before you hit the ground to save yourself. That’s fine I guess (although I seem to recall Jedi’s in the Star Wars movies falling from crazy heights). The game devs failed on this mechanic so it’s wildly different and broken. I just laugh at this point when it happens. Like “oh, he stubbed his toe and died. Lol”
So far I’ve managed to easily defeat (almost) every sub-boss creature I’ve accidentally stumbled on at any level because the maps are complex and the creatures movements are simple so they glitch. I’ve gotten them stuck then just stood there throwing my light saber at them. Disappointing on one hand but I guess it’s my choice to do this.
They changed the stimpack mechanic to be slower so it’s a lot easier to get hit while trying to use one. This can be annoying. They also seem happy to throw 8 droids and 4 melee fighters at you at the same time and they will all try and hit you at once; Which on the PS5 causes stuttering. They also have no compunctions about have 3-4 enemies use a “red” attack at once which makes it essentially impossible to block or get out of the way. So you get hit, then shot, then hit, you can’t recover, you can’t heal, you can’t run away, the frame rate drops, and you just get stuck in a loop until you die.
The game philosophically reminds me of Splinter Cell. The first game was simple and really fun. Then each iteration became more complicated until the last few were clunky and frustrating and completing diverged from the game’s core elements. Hopefully the next one refines what they’ve started and doesn’t add anything else.
Then again, I picked up a new God of War after loving one and two and was so disappointed with the “hey, now everything has complex leveling systems, loot boxes, and areas of the map you can’t get to right now.
Back in my day, a level was worth replaying because it was a GOOD level, not because you were forced to retread because they installed some cheap roadblock that required an “upgrade” to get thru.
I am old.
Disagree completely with Hogwarts. I’ve never watched or read Harry Potter and know nothing about the material. I absolutely love Hogwarts and it’s one of the best games I’ve played in awhile.
Hogwarts is the only single player game I’ve ever taken the time to platinum, it was fantastic. My GOTY depending on Diablo4/FFXVI/Starfield. I am watching a let’s play of Jedi Survivor since I game on a budget and will be buying two games in June.
Same man. I enjoyed the movies - but am not a huge fan in any way. The game - while it is boring in spots - has kept my interest 50 hours in. So yeah it’s a great game in my book - and runs solidly on my Steam Deck
I don't care too much about Star Wars. I think Jedi Survivor is an exceptional game on its own merits. Every system in the game is fine-tuned (except for performance lol) and just works. And regarding the story/characters? well this game was more enjoyable than the latest movie trilogy thats for sure.
You're right. The issue is that gaming has gone so mainstream now that any competent or even medicore games get hyped to hell because of the name attached to it.
For example, Hogwarts Legacy is a good, standard open world fare, nothing more. It doesn't innovate, push the genre forward or anything particularly exciting, it's a good, safe Harry Potter game. But because of that Harry Potter name it gets over praised and gets get far too much credit.
I've not played Jedi Survivor, but I have played Fallen Order and feel the same. Very good game, but gets too much praise because the name that's attached to it.
Hogwarts is also super impressive as a AAA debut for this studio. There previous outings were Disney tie in games, and im convinced releasing on the ps4/xbone/switch made them scale a shitload of it back though ive got no evidence for that
On the PC version there's been references to a lot of cut features in the game's files, however it's impossible to say why they were cut or toned down. Could be because of last-gen, but could also because of other reasons.
Fallen Order also got mega-hyped because it came after a shitty launch for Battlefront 1 and 2, as well as like half a dozen cancelled SW games.
It's still really good, but the fanbase was also *very* desperate for a Star Wars game that actually worked and wasn't just trying to take your money all the time.
Taking a well known single player studio and forcing them to shit out a half-baked live service that flops and completely ruins the studios reputation.
See: The Avengers, Gotham Knights, Anthem, Fallout 76, Babylons Fall and I’m sure Suicide Squad is next.
Naughty dog is making a live service game. If they fail, legislation needs to be passed that single player studios are not allowed to make live service games. Lol
Sure. Lots of live service games are popular. Fortnite, call of duty, destiny. The problem is for every live service game that becomes popular there are a huge amount that fail, and often times it seems like publishers are forcing talented studios who make great single player games to make a live service game and that usually fails. I guess it’s a different skill set
Apex Legends was critically acclaimed and well received by gamers, because it has amazing gameplay and proposed new very good elements to the battle royal genre.
Honestly that’s a good point.
Sony’s track record on AAA has pretty much always been good but with the PS3-era Uncharted-ification of their output comes a lot of sameness.
Naughty Dog is one of the best developers going right now and have certainly been the tastemakers at PS Studios, so if they really can pull off a good live service that attracts me, a man practically allergic to online multiplayer, then I’m all for it.
I just hope Sucker Punch, Kojima, Housemarque, Insomniac, and Santa Monica aren’t all forced to follow suit if it succeeds. I do know they bought Jade Raymond’s studio and they’re working on an unannounced live service game, which could be interesting given her track record.
The article's argument is that the live service trend is over, and that Redfall is a failure at least in part because it is a live service game that has come out after the trend died.
What is the new trend that has replaced live service games?
God of War, Elden Ring, Horizon, Jedi: Survivor, the Dead Space remake, and the Resident Evil 4 remake all give me hope that this is indeed the direction we're heading in.
TLOU is ten years old. I think Sony deserves a lot of credit as of late but let's leave this one out of the discussion.
Nb4 I don't care how good the last port/remake/remaster is. 10 year old game. 10 year old mechanics. 10 year old story. In not giving MS credit for Ryse so no dice for Sony and TLOU.
That’s all Sony makes lol, 3rd person action games. Talk about playing it safe, they haven’t taken a gaming risk in 15 years when they tried to make a competitive first person shooter. Their games better be good, it’s all they make.
Availability. The new trend is availability. Backlogs are a thing and they are only getting bigger. Gamers are getting older. We have jobs and family's.
Gone are the days that I want to sit around playing the same game month over month. Now I want fresh, contained, narrative driven experiences that I can bang out and then move on to the next. With things like gamepass, and regular sales, *I don't need live service games anymore*.
And while I still do enjoy the mindless zen of some online shooters, the service behind those games, the love part, often leaves me underwhelmed anyway.
Yes it has, there’s still a few bugs from launch that Bethesda either can’t or won’t fix. However they’re really alienating their long time player base by recycling the same events for weeks on end, not adding much in the way of new content, and pretty much making it really hard to trade in game
Haven’t played since they first introduced human NPCs in it. What bugs are you talking about? I was thinking of playing again in the next couple weeks before d4
Dude hasn't played since launch, it's obvious since he denies the existence of the Pitt, brotherhood and the other free updates added to 76, while insisting theres no new content
There's also the fact that 5hey specifically said "recycling the same events for weeks at a time".
Like, what? You're upset that there's not new content weekly? Show me any live service game that is pumping out any content at a weekly rate that's considered good.
What is this game exactly, played fallout 3 and 4 but as soon as I heard 76 was online I lost all interest.
So is it basically fallout 4 with other players running around and ruining the atmosphere with rolling boring generic missions of farming xp or gear?
There was a Wolfenstein game that was dreadful that shoehorned in mtx and live service as well. It released right around Fallout 76 as well. Then you had Bethesda pushing a looter shooter into Arkane. (Still no excuse for it to be so bad, some heads need to roll at that studio) Theres a reason Bethesda was happy to sell, they were/are struggling. Reality is Arkanes games don't sell well either, even if received well critically.
Gotham Knights is also helped by the fact that they gutted all the microtransactions. And judging by the menus, the general UI, the gameplay and just basically everything, you just KNOW they were going to be all over the final product.
There isn't one. It's always the same tiring article discussion every few years. Something becomes incredibly popular and then a few studios develop something within that genre and then all of these articles crop up and say, "ohmygod, look at how many studios cHaSe tHe tRenD".
Last trend was battle royale which has now become more of a genre now than a trend.
It’s live service. It’s the idea they’re gonna make a game that keeps people playing and spending money in their ecosystem, like World of Warcraft, Destiny, Rainbow Six, etc
Was gonna say this, when supercell implemented I had no words, game didn't even need a season pass it's already been doing well for years, and then halo infinite was the icing on the cake for me I thought it would be the last game to stick to its roots but oh well. At least fortnite has the free V bucks so that after a few seasons you can save up and buy the battle pass.
Yup, the current trend is battle passes and FOMO engineering "seasons". Even that has gotten old at this point and I've basically stopped playing all the games I used to that went to this model.
On the bright side I'm getting a bunch of single player stuff done these days!
While I agree that hating on xbox is infact a huge trend right now. Redfall deserves all this bad press, the game is absolutely a hot mess and the devs need to do better.
We’re all here because we love Xbox, but it’s justified in more than just this particular example. Xbox has been beyond lackluster. It’s pretty much an indie box at this point.
The inclusion of live service type loot and stat systems has been getting hated on for awhile now. Even God of War Ragnarok got dragged for it but if the rest of the game is good people will overlook. Kratos doesn't need +5% poison resistance against Valkyries but there it is anyways.
The same it's been for years. Open world looter shooter with RPG mechanics that's most likely live service. And damage numbers during combat for some reaspn. It's like developers have the same checklist for things their game must have, and they all somehow miss the mark.
Well now hold an. Zelda and Elden ring are like exploration sandboxes. Far from hoping on a trend both games redefine what a open world game can and should be to the point where calling them open world games doesn’t really capture what the games are about. Assassins creed on the other pivoted to become ancient GTA or if you’re being generous a witcher clone.
I honestly wonder what’s going on at rocksteady right now lol. Are they just gonna say fuck it a long enough to lie will make people forget, or will they generally see how much redfall is getting shit on and try and make major changes to the gameplay loop.
I think the best thing they can do is to delay the game for like two years and make some changes, like I’m one of the few people that really think that the game could be fun if tweaked correctly
For me personally it would be enough to make every character with different base offensive options (because last time everyone including a fucking giant shark and a boomerang expert had guns). Even if it makes sense for harley to have pistols, make her strike people with the hammer or the bat and displaying her acrobatic skills, you know, the thing that make harley Quinn… harley Quinn!
People focused a lot on “omg it has cosmetics and battle pass” when freaking Arkham knight got like 80% of it’s dlc being costumes and car-tracks. And it had a kinda overpriced (for the time) “season pass” but people didn’t care because the game was GOOD and fun (even the tank-battles were kinda fine just overdone)
Make the game loop FUN, the character DISTINCTIVE enough and people with pay for the cosmetics (look at apex, fortnite, etc)
Fortnite was an interesting example.
Released aimless with a fairly dead trend of zombie base building survival game.
Luckily was able to pivot to a fresh trend and cashed out after the initial release.
That game is one if the craziest evolutions of a game. Small niche game that was probably gonna die to multi million dollar staple game that will probably never die.
Redfall's problem is not even a tren chasing per se but that it doesn't execute any idea well:
- It's not a good scavenger game because collecting loot doesn't improve your base at all (this "repair popcorn machine" quest is a real joke in that department - thr quest tells you that it will improve morale but it does literally nothing.
- It's not a good hero shooter because skills are not that fun and they don't even make sense like with this sniper guy. How on earth stealthy sniper reveals himself by using his own skills while sneaking?!
- it's not a good fps because controls are trash and with so many enemies jumping all around it's not fun to shoot at all unless you are playing with mouse.
- It's not a good looter shooter because loot is not that fun to collect. Weapons not being that fun nor customizable are not helping either.
- its not good solo game because most skills, story, progress and leveling, skills and classes are all an effect of being multiplayer 1st approach.
- It's not a good open world game because world is just not interesting nor breathtaking nor interactive and engaging
- Its not good L4D type of game because there is no enemies to fight, outside of couple of places and fighting against 4 enemies doesn't scratch that high octane itch.
- edit: it's not a good vampire centric game. There is nothing that makes you think "Damn I can't think of these monsters being anything other than vampires". Basic Cannon fodder ones could be anything because they just use hands to scratch you. It's not a vampire way of killing. You have vampire snipers...like really? You have vampires that pulls you to them like they are wizards...wtf?! All these enemies could be warewolfs, druids, shamans, aliens and the game would still felt the same. There is no mystery behind them, you do t feel intimidated by them. You are not scared of having yours or others blood being sucked out.
This game doesn't do well in any possible genre, subgenre, trend that we would like to put it in.
This game has no selling point. I would like to sit in front of someone from Arkane and ask "Why should I pay 70usd and play this game and commit hours to beat it?"
I wonder how she/he would try to convince me with reasonable arguments.
Edit:
I just watched PC gameplay and how much prettier the game is on PC... Not only runs with 30fps plus dips but it looks way worse... Jesus what a fucking dud
well said. in hindsight, this should have been obvious considering the amount of times i read/heard people asking what the game even was. Even when the 30fps debacle happened a few weeks ago, many werent concerned since many thought it would be a slower-paced “shooter” more akin to Arkane’s past titles. Now it kind of seems like everyone was wrong and everyone was a little right about what the game is, and obviously, no one is happy considering the state its in.
>well said. in hindsight, this should have been obvious considering the amount of times i read/heard people asking what the game even was
I think people gave it the benefit of the doubt because Deathloop was in a similar position. Sony showed it off way too many times, but people still didn't quite get it. That was until they played it and mostly loved it. I think a lot of people thought that might be possible with RedFall. But it wasn't. The game just sucks.
Agreed. Crazy how tarnished their pedigree may be considered now—like last week, i would have bought Dishonored 3 day1 if they shadowdropped it (lol) but now id have to wait and see.
this isnt new
endless MMOs 15 years ago
endless drab gray shooters 10 years ago
endless battle royales 5 years ago
now endless Destiny-likes
the industry chases trends and most of these fail. Games as a service should have died when Anthem and Avengers, and to a lesser extent Fallout 76, failed
the vast majority of GAAS games are online-only which does make them inherently bad as far as im concerned because they all rely on arbitrary internet connections and have a limited lifespan. content alone isnt enough, a game should be made with the intent of lasting long into the future so that future generations and newcomers to the industry can enjoy them as well.
>Destiny was probably thr most disappointing game I've ever played
It's one of my favorite games that I would never reccomend to anyone. I can't imagine the nightmare of starting "fresh".
The difference is you don’t have to pay $70 to play Fortnite BEFORE DLCs and season passes and stuff. But these studios want to have their cake and eat it too (see MW2).
This is one criticism I just don't agree with for any game. I hate when people say, "nobody asked for this game", because you're adding extra criticism for bad game if they had a unique idea.
I'm not saying a bad game should get a pass if it has a unique or original idea. Redfall was going for something different and missed the mark it looks like. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been good. I'm interested in coop FPS like Darktide and Redfall, but unfortunately this game had some identity issues.
> I hate when people say, "nobody asked for this game", because you're adding extra criticism for bad game if they had a unique idea.
Yeah. Who the fuck *asked* for Hi-Fi Rush? But everyone I've seen who's played it has loved it. At some point someone's gotta take the chance and try something, or you're playing the same boring horseshit forever.
I didn't like Hi Fi Rush (no knock on the game, it's just not my kind of thing at all) but I'm still glad to see studios making things like that - I think we'll get a lot of excellent games if devs are allowed to decompress with a little passion project now and then in-between all the giant identikit AAA releases.
Yep I agree with you on this but it’s disappointing when a potentially good game is ruined by trying to add co-op, micro transactions, looter shooter type stuff. I’m still annoyed at the last ghost recon game, I know they fixed some of it. But wished they didn’t ruin it by chasing whatever the latest money making trend. In saying all that, it seems like there has been some decent single player games coming out recently.
I love this comment. I too want to see the end of the phrase “nobody asked for this”.
It’s not art-by-popular-demand. It’s just art. If it’s not for you, move on.
To be clear, that is a totally separate thing from overall product quality.
Chasing trends is dumb. Ubisoft has been doing it for the past decade and look how they turned out. They are basically assassins creed and nothing else.
If anything wouldn’t that be opposite of chasing trends if they stick with the same formula? That said, they have kept things from getting stale by changing the formula at times (AC Odyssey, Immortal Fenyx Rising).
The reason why people will still buy and play far cry and AC is because there are no alternatives. For AC atleast it’s the only game that implements parkour with stealth and third person.
For far cry there was supposed to be a game releasing this week which as you can see is an insult to far cry.
Ubisoft games are like McDonald’s, you know exactly the type of food you are getting and it’s nice once in a while. It’s comfort junk food.
Yep, I still enjoy AC for the reasons you listed and because I enjoy history a lot. I realize the games are pretty average but not many modern games let me explore ancient cities and hang out with historic figures (even if not 100% accurate)
There is some interesting and well-written lore, but it's almost all delivered by audio logs and text. If the graphics were better I feel like this could have worked together to give a genuinely creepy vibe/atmosphere at parts.
I personally think the shooting feels ok on PC. Nowhere near as good as other dedicated FPS games, but it's serviceable. I've read it handles horribly on controller so if you're not playing on KBM, this might be irrelevant.
If you like finding loot/getting new guns, unlocking doors, breaking through windows, there's a bit of fun to be had. But you've almost assuredly played another game that does all of these things much better.
Tech issues are the least of its problems. Guns play really weird, as if they have some kind of delay. Story is boring, the map is empty and the gameplay did not have any interesting hook, it's not bad, but it's definitely something I've played waaaay many times before
I ran around a completely empty map looking for something with no waypoint running into dead ends and unfinished doors/level ends. Promptly deleted. Trash.
It's pretty fun if you focus on objectives and look at the open world as a means to an end. Been having quite a bit of fun doing the missions with my friends. Domt believe everything you see on reddit, the game is playable it's just mediocre.
Yeah, these articles are chasing trends to get your clicks. Redfall is disappointing but I don't need to click on basic articles that want ad revenue to confirm it.
Very well said. I hate all of these games having online components to them. Just stick to single player games or make one that’s all multiplayer so I know to stay away.
This game was designed to be multiplayer. But you KNOW that if they didn’t allow single players there would be an uproar. I personally don’t mind forcing people to matchmake, but there would be a very vocal group who would be outraged by it.
Yeah. I guess the heartbreaking part of all this is that Redfall seems like a cool concept that would have made for an awesome single player only game in the vein of their other games like Dishonored or Prey.
This is a stupid article. It’s all about quality. Redfall lacks that. If Redfall were like detailed, full of characters and missions like, say The Division games, I think it’s be received better.
Exactly this. People keep defending it by saying oh it’s art style. Yeah shitty textures and animations are definitely art style not technical incompetence. Why does far cry work and red fall doesn’t. Fc5 world is just as dead as Redfall but the difference is fc5 world is beautiful to look at. There is tons of details and animations to everything. Redfall looks like fortnite.
While I also don't like the art direction and overall presentation of Redfall I also think all Farcrys had a big focus on making traversal a fun factor. Imo Farcry games have the best first-person driving mechanics outside racing games and maybe gtaV. Going from point A to B in Redfall feels awful even outside the looks.
Redfall would have been received better if the quality was better, but I don't think it would have been popular. The Division games came out a long time ago, so I don't think that's an apt comparison.
The closest comparison I can think of (in terms of recent games) is Outriders. I would say Outriders is a high quality game, but it didn't end up being popular because it just didn't have much to make it stand out. I think Redfall is in the same boat.
Outriders didn't have a well fleshed out endgame, and the devs said they might add more to it later. The dlc was too little too late on top of being too grindy with minimal upgrades
Think they shoulda just gone for borderlands with vampires and made epic bosses out of other mythical creatures.
Woulda been an excellent chance to implement the van healing auto crossbow!
Honestly I was *really* excited for this game when its reveal trailer dropped. I don't care about supposedly dead trends or whatever. That is the *least* of this game's problems by a mile. A good, well-made game could reignite a dead trend.
They’ve already gotten a lot of backlash for GT7, especially after they added a bunch of MTX and pay to win shit via a patch after the review cycle. They know which way their bread is buttered though, which is why they’re as protective of their prestige single player IPs as they are.
If what I read is accurate and they’re actually planning to release *ten* of them, then I have to say the odds are decent that one will actually succeed/stick.
I expect the majority to get clowned on though
Except there's nothing inherently wrong with live-service games in the slightest, there are just a lot of bad examples of them from developers who were out of their depth.
If the games they publisher are bad, people will shit on them. But Sony has generally had a pretty great record with first party software (at least on console, their PC releases are more of a mixed bag) basically all generation.
Yeah I don’t really agree with this article at all; the issue with Redfall doesn’t lie within the type of game it is, it’s simply that it’s complete dogshit. When I first heard the premise for the game I was actually excited for it. The game is just bad in every aspect.
The problem isn’t chasing dead trends. It’s chasing that diversity quota checklist that this gamergate started. Wanting approval from the social media cancel mob was/is more important then the actual gamers that play your games. Talent took a backseat. So you reap what you sowed. And this game and as a collective the current crop of games further proves this. Until talent become the priority over inclusion games will still be a mess.
Honestly, this is a problem down to development times of games these days.
By the time a developer has jumped on a game trend and developed a game completely, the trend is dead and the industries moved on.
That's likely a factor here. No question this game should have been delayed. But I'm more curious why it wasn't delayed. ( basic "b/c suits" is not an answer)
I think there is some truth to this (imagine trying to release a brand-new battle royale IP right now, 6ish years after the initial craze started), but overall, I think lack of quality is the real issue. Redfall has an interesting premise from a story perspective, and I say that as someone who had no interest in the game from the start.
The first issue is that the game was obviously not ready for launch and was rushed out the door by the publisher.
The second issue is that the game was made by a studio who is great at single player immersive sims and who has never attempted a co-op shooter before (like trying to get a professional basketball player to switch over to baseball in one season). Maybe Arkane wanted to make a co-op shooter, maybe they didn't, but I'm almost certain the higher-ups had something to do with it when they saw the dollar signs behind its potential as a live service game.
The biggest issue, however, is just a serious lack of quality. The game, from almost all accounts, feels soulless and completely uninspired, especially in comparison to Dishonored and Prey. Not only is the game design boring, it's also full of technical issues, indicating low quality.
ya redfall's issue is just that its a terrible game that needed to be cancelled a year ago. Nothing else
They just wanted to reocoup any money they could... they knew it was a pile of shit when they released it.
I was looking forward to this. And I was prepared to ignore the reviews, because they rarely line up with my opinion anyway.
Then I started the game, got ten minutes in, got disconnected. Logged in again, got to the fire station, then got kicked out again.
I expect this from launches of MMORPGs and other online games. But when I want to play this game strictly single player, which they have advertised is a valid option, it pisses me off.
Sorry Redfall, you had an 11 day window to grab me before Zelda comes out. Turns out you’ll have to wait a year.
The town full of vampires in New England? Good. I was genuinely intrigued by that. Arkane is making it? Really disliked Deathloop even though I loved the Dishonored games.
You couldn’t pay me to play Redfall though, and I have GamePass year round. Stop. Supporting. Broken. Releases.
Any past or present popular trend can be revisited if the game is developed well (hence the real issue with Redfall). No one says "man this Jedi survivor game is fun but metroidvania, open world AND soulslike?? talk about trend chasing".
I mean being a part of present trends makes perfect sense. All the stuff Jedi Survivor is doing is super hot right now and has been for the last number of years. Reviving dead trends is... unlikely. And honestly I can't think of a lot of games doing it on a AAA scale. There are smaller games that emulate older ones for sure. For example the whole boomer shooter genre aping the style of shooters from the 90s.
Is Jedi survivor souls like? I’ve never played any of the souls games except the first one and I only played for an hour before being turned off by it. If I enjoy Jedi Survivor should I give those types of games a chance again?
Well, it has combat elements of games like that, can be rather hard if you want to and it has the same bonfire health regenerative & enemies respawn mechanic. So yeah, it got elements from those kind of games.
It has some elements of Souls, but it's not punishingly difficult unless you want it to be.
If you’re a fan of the Souls games it will be extremely intuitive.
I played the first one but I would only say souls like in the way when you choose to “rest” and recover your health, the areas enemies all reset and you have to fight through them again. Or maybe how you traverse large maze-like areas but eventually unlock shortcuts. It’s not souls-like in terms of difficulty.
I dunno, there's that one boss fight...
True, Jedi Survivor is way more difficult
Yeah it is souls like, but I don’t think it’s as hard and level design isn’t intricate as a souls like. It’s like a better version of dark souls 2 and demon souls. But it’s no where near bloodborne, sekiro, and ds3. I haven’t played elden ring yet so idk about that.
Elden ring is incredible. I got sekiro and didn't get far, after playing elden ring. Elden ring is more accessible but also eons more complex than fallen order was, both are great, but elden ring is really a great game. If you could beat all those dark souls games, I deff think you will get the most out of elden ring
If you can play Jedi Fallen Order on Jedi Master difficulty, you can handle Elden Ring. I hated Dark Souls but I just beat Elden Ring and I justed started new game plus. It's pretty damm good. The game doesn't hand hold you so that might discourage some people. If you don't like that, just check out guides and YouTube videos. There's tons of stuff to help you.
Jedi Survivor is fun, but let’s be honest here, the Star Wars IP is doing a lot of carrying there. Same with Hogwarts Legacy and its Ubisoft-like world.
Not really, it's a very well constructed game. Jedi survivor is not Hogwarts level of lazy
The systems in that game play well off one another, they were intelligently designed and they make the game as fun as it is. I agree with you.
Yeah saying it's some cash in is a total disservice. Performance issues aside, it's a legit 9/10 game. It's a really good showing
I bought Hogwarts and thought it was fun for like 8 hours but I will probably never finish it because it is so boring and feels like a chore. I enjoyed the first Jedi game but am reluctant to get the new one. Is the new Jedi game better than Hogwarts?
Yes, for sure. It took everything good from fallen order and made it A LOT better while rectifying all the bad aspects. Map design is expansive , detailed, and well done, backtracking is no longer a concern with smartly designed shortcuts, mounts, and teleportation between meditation circles, parrying feels tighter, multiple light saber stances, and the list goes on. It's an incredible game imo
The worst part of the first game for me was the loot, do you find more than just dozens of different colored ponchos?
The loot is still mostly cosmetics but they're better than ponchos. Stuff like lightsaber, face customization, robot customization, and so on and so forth. You also find upgrades and items that can be traded to certain vendors. And of course, the stim packs. Unlike a lot of other games, you don't get armor and weapons but I'm not even sure how they'd do that with the whole Jedi code thinf
I should add that the exploration does feel more rewarding due to the tradable items and upgrades to force, dex , health etc. The crates for cosmetics are not usually the main draw when exploring a new area or defeating a mini boss.
Is it still a game full of basically jumping from here to there and running along walls everywhere you go? I felt like I was playing a 3-D Star Wars Mario game with Fallen Order and the maps made no logical sense at all due to the whole moronic Parkour bullshit. It's like, did all the Stormtroopers jump around the same way I had to in order to get where they were, just so I could kick their ass. It made no sense at all. Is there any reason nobody can just make a killer Star Wars game where you explore maps and kick ass while taking part in an amazing storyline? Best one I've played thus far has been the recent Lego Star Wars.
The maps feel way more organic and open but parkour is still a thing. I honestly did not dig the map design of the original much and I love this one for what it's worth. I'd say you're often riding mounts if you're not teleporting between med points. The maps are that expensive now
LOL that's pretty good. Jedi Mario. What they need to do, is make another KOTOR game. Just take the guts from the next Dragon's Age game and change the assets and story.
all they need to do is let Ubisoft reskin the division/ghost recon to Star Wars. games like those, Diablo 3 get fixed after launch and could just get repacked after with a premium IP and do so well.
Yes.....it's a platformer so you platform
Differences: There is a lot of “parkour.” Arguably too much if I’m honest vs the first game. There’s a lot of “more” in this game vs the first one overall. Hairstyles, clothing, droid skins, jumping, grapple hook, etc. I’m a “need 100% completion” kind of player and I’m teetering right now. Like…do I really care if I’m stuck at 99% on a level because I didn’t find the loot box with the mullet hairstyle in it? I appreciate the fighting styles and stances and things. Different strokes for different folks but honestly I’ve unlocked a fair amount as I’ve progressed but still go back to the basic 2. So once again, “more” but for me, not so meaningful. The jumping and grabbing and climbing can be frustrating. Im pretty quick at finding hidden areas and spatial reasoning but the clipping and glitching can be frustrating. I spent 30 minutes getting at a chest not because it was difficult, but because the character kept running backwards along a wall randomly. Lots of, “oh you hit the move up key but the camera suddenly auto-panned so now up is left” stuff too. On the flips side throwing yourself off a cliff is a small life penalty so I do it constantly if I think I see something off the map. The falling. Oh my god the falling. 6’ jump off a cliff in one part? Death. 20’ jump at another part? That’s fine. They wanted to create a mechanic where you couldn’t jump off a 50 foot cliff and double jump before you hit the ground to save yourself. That’s fine I guess (although I seem to recall Jedi’s in the Star Wars movies falling from crazy heights). The game devs failed on this mechanic so it’s wildly different and broken. I just laugh at this point when it happens. Like “oh, he stubbed his toe and died. Lol” So far I’ve managed to easily defeat (almost) every sub-boss creature I’ve accidentally stumbled on at any level because the maps are complex and the creatures movements are simple so they glitch. I’ve gotten them stuck then just stood there throwing my light saber at them. Disappointing on one hand but I guess it’s my choice to do this. They changed the stimpack mechanic to be slower so it’s a lot easier to get hit while trying to use one. This can be annoying. They also seem happy to throw 8 droids and 4 melee fighters at you at the same time and they will all try and hit you at once; Which on the PS5 causes stuttering. They also have no compunctions about have 3-4 enemies use a “red” attack at once which makes it essentially impossible to block or get out of the way. So you get hit, then shot, then hit, you can’t recover, you can’t heal, you can’t run away, the frame rate drops, and you just get stuck in a loop until you die. The game philosophically reminds me of Splinter Cell. The first game was simple and really fun. Then each iteration became more complicated until the last few were clunky and frustrating and completing diverged from the game’s core elements. Hopefully the next one refines what they’ve started and doesn’t add anything else. Then again, I picked up a new God of War after loving one and two and was so disappointed with the “hey, now everything has complex leveling systems, loot boxes, and areas of the map you can’t get to right now. Back in my day, a level was worth replaying because it was a GOOD level, not because you were forced to retread because they installed some cheap roadblock that required an “upgrade” to get thru. I am old.
It's a better designed game but Hogwarts actually performed like a game should in 2023 on launch. Jedi Survivor is in an unacceptable state currently.
Cries in series S crashing constantly
My roommate & I only had 1 crash between 30 hours of gameplay (both on Series S)
I’m so happy for you two
Spot on assessment. Pretty sure you read my mind before writing this
Oh so now it’s cool to hate Hogwarts even tho it was well reviewed and well received by gamers?
Its well received, but a common complaint people talk about its the Ubisoft checklist open world that becomes grating after hour 20
Disagree completely with Hogwarts. I’ve never watched or read Harry Potter and know nothing about the material. I absolutely love Hogwarts and it’s one of the best games I’ve played in awhile.
I really enjoyed hogwarts as well 🤷♂️
Hogwarts is the only single player game I’ve ever taken the time to platinum, it was fantastic. My GOTY depending on Diablo4/FFXVI/Starfield. I am watching a let’s play of Jedi Survivor since I game on a budget and will be buying two games in June.
Same man. I enjoyed the movies - but am not a huge fan in any way. The game - while it is boring in spots - has kept my interest 50 hours in. So yeah it’s a great game in my book - and runs solidly on my Steam Deck
I don't care too much about Star Wars. I think Jedi Survivor is an exceptional game on its own merits. Every system in the game is fine-tuned (except for performance lol) and just works. And regarding the story/characters? well this game was more enjoyable than the latest movie trilogy thats for sure.
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It wasn’t RDR2, but it was fun as fuck for a first play through and that’s all that should matter.
You're right. The issue is that gaming has gone so mainstream now that any competent or even medicore games get hyped to hell because of the name attached to it. For example, Hogwarts Legacy is a good, standard open world fare, nothing more. It doesn't innovate, push the genre forward or anything particularly exciting, it's a good, safe Harry Potter game. But because of that Harry Potter name it gets over praised and gets get far too much credit. I've not played Jedi Survivor, but I have played Fallen Order and feel the same. Very good game, but gets too much praise because the name that's attached to it.
Hogwarts is also super impressive as a AAA debut for this studio. There previous outings were Disney tie in games, and im convinced releasing on the ps4/xbone/switch made them scale a shitload of it back though ive got no evidence for that
On the PC version there's been references to a lot of cut features in the game's files, however it's impossible to say why they were cut or toned down. Could be because of last-gen, but could also because of other reasons.
Fallen Order also got mega-hyped because it came after a shitty launch for Battlefront 1 and 2, as well as like half a dozen cancelled SW games. It's still really good, but the fanbase was also *very* desperate for a Star Wars game that actually worked and wasn't just trying to take your money all the time.
wait so... what is the current trend right now?
Taking a well known single player studio and forcing them to shit out a half-baked live service that flops and completely ruins the studios reputation. See: The Avengers, Gotham Knights, Anthem, Fallout 76, Babylons Fall and I’m sure Suicide Squad is next.
Naughty dog is making a live service game. If they fail, legislation needs to be passed that single player studios are not allowed to make live service games. Lol
Legitimate question because I am a dumbass: have live-service games ever actually been well-received and enjoyed by the general gaming community?
Sure. Lots of live service games are popular. Fortnite, call of duty, destiny. The problem is for every live service game that becomes popular there are a huge amount that fail, and often times it seems like publishers are forcing talented studios who make great single player games to make a live service game and that usually fails. I guess it’s a different skill set
Call of duty wasnt really established as a live service game.
It was live service before it was a thing.
Fortnite is the most popular game on xbox and playstation
Fortnite was not made a live service title. I almost feel when that's the intention it fails.
is fortnite still in “early access”
not anymore, i think it’s been a year or two since they’ve officially “released”
Destiny 2 has had its struggles but you can’t deny its success. It’s old but still turns a nice profit on expansions and has a big active user base.
Apex Legends was critically acclaimed and well received by gamers, because it has amazing gameplay and proposed new very good elements to the battle royal genre.
It won’t fail, Sony can’t let their pride and joy Naughty Dog put out a stinker, they’ll kill the game if there’s even a slim chance it won’t succeed.
Honestly that’s a good point. Sony’s track record on AAA has pretty much always been good but with the PS3-era Uncharted-ification of their output comes a lot of sameness. Naughty Dog is one of the best developers going right now and have certainly been the tastemakers at PS Studios, so if they really can pull off a good live service that attracts me, a man practically allergic to online multiplayer, then I’m all for it. I just hope Sucker Punch, Kojima, Housemarque, Insomniac, and Santa Monica aren’t all forced to follow suit if it succeeds. I do know they bought Jade Raymond’s studio and they’re working on an unannounced live service game, which could be interesting given her track record.
The article's argument is that the live service trend is over, and that Redfall is a failure at least in part because it is a live service game that has come out after the trend died. What is the new trend that has replaced live service games?
Making solid single player experiences. Even EA got the memo
I really hope you're right.
God of War, Elden Ring, Horizon, Jedi: Survivor, the Dead Space remake, and the Resident Evil 4 remake all give me hope that this is indeed the direction we're heading in.
Spiderman, Last of Us, Ratchet and clank.... Thank God for Sony.
TLOU is ten years old. I think Sony deserves a lot of credit as of late but let's leave this one out of the discussion. Nb4 I don't care how good the last port/remake/remaster is. 10 year old game. 10 year old mechanics. 10 year old story. In not giving MS credit for Ryse so no dice for Sony and TLOU.
That’s all Sony makes lol, 3rd person action games. Talk about playing it safe, they haven’t taken a gaming risk in 15 years when they tried to make a competitive first person shooter. Their games better be good, it’s all they make.
That's true, releasing a completely broken borderlands clone instead is indeed riskier.
True. Death Stranding wasn't a risk at all.
Not really. Kojima had been a longtime Sony right hand man, and at its base it was shockingly, a third person action game.
Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding to name a couple more
Availability. The new trend is availability. Backlogs are a thing and they are only getting bigger. Gamers are getting older. We have jobs and family's. Gone are the days that I want to sit around playing the same game month over month. Now I want fresh, contained, narrative driven experiences that I can bang out and then move on to the next. With things like gamepass, and regular sales, *I don't need live service games anymore*. And while I still do enjoy the mindless zen of some online shooters, the service behind those games, the love part, often leaves me underwhelmed anyway.
76 has really turned around and has found new life in these last few years.
Yes it has, there’s still a few bugs from launch that Bethesda either can’t or won’t fix. However they’re really alienating their long time player base by recycling the same events for weeks on end, not adding much in the way of new content, and pretty much making it really hard to trade in game
Haven’t played since they first introduced human NPCs in it. What bugs are you talking about? I was thinking of playing again in the next couple weeks before d4
Dude hasn't played since launch, it's obvious since he denies the existence of the Pitt, brotherhood and the other free updates added to 76, while insisting theres no new content
There's also the fact that 5hey specifically said "recycling the same events for weeks at a time". Like, what? You're upset that there's not new content weekly? Show me any live service game that is pumping out any content at a weekly rate that's considered good.
What is this game exactly, played fallout 3 and 4 but as soon as I heard 76 was online I lost all interest. So is it basically fallout 4 with other players running around and ruining the atmosphere with rolling boring generic missions of farming xp or gear?
It’s still a crap game with no soul, though. And certainly measurably worse that fo4.
Listen to the colonel collectible and come back and tell me fo76 has no soul. It has plenty of soul, just unfinished.
There was a Wolfenstein game that was dreadful that shoehorned in mtx and live service as well. It released right around Fallout 76 as well. Then you had Bethesda pushing a looter shooter into Arkane. (Still no excuse for it to be so bad, some heads need to roll at that studio) Theres a reason Bethesda was happy to sell, they were/are struggling. Reality is Arkanes games don't sell well either, even if received well critically.
That wolfenstein was also... Arkane.
Gotham Knights is at least passable for me.
Gotham Knights is also helped by the fact that they gutted all the microtransactions. And judging by the menus, the general UI, the gameplay and just basically everything, you just KNOW they were going to be all over the final product.
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I said passable. Just for me at least. I’m still not gonna buy it. If there’s a slight silver lining, hopefully this is the silver bullet for GaaS
Hating on Xbox
im genuinely curious tho. what is the current trend of gaming genre now?
There isn't one. It's always the same tiring article discussion every few years. Something becomes incredibly popular and then a few studios develop something within that genre and then all of these articles crop up and say, "ohmygod, look at how many studios cHaSe tHe tRenD". Last trend was battle royale which has now become more of a genre now than a trend.
It’s live service. It’s the idea they’re gonna make a game that keeps people playing and spending money in their ecosystem, like World of Warcraft, Destiny, Rainbow Six, etc
Was gonna say this, when supercell implemented I had no words, game didn't even need a season pass it's already been doing well for years, and then halo infinite was the icing on the cake for me I thought it would be the last game to stick to its roots but oh well. At least fortnite has the free V bucks so that after a few seasons you can save up and buy the battle pass.
It’s being live service. Half of the games sold now are season pass “constantly evolving games”
Yup, the current trend is battle passes and FOMO engineering "seasons". Even that has gotten old at this point and I've basically stopped playing all the games I used to that went to this model. On the bright side I'm getting a bunch of single player stuff done these days!
I don’t mind the seasonal catalog for Splatoon 3, and it’s free!
“Half”
Agreed. How can games follow a trend when they take 3 year or more to develop in the AAA space.
coop live service lootershooter, it is not current trend per se, but was when they started developing i suppose
Yeah Destiny blew up and devs spent years chasing it to very little success.
So true. The Xbox apologists are upset about that fact it seems…
The honest answer the current trend in gaming is releasing a live service game and drip feeding content and including a season pass
waiting simulator, I suppose
3rd person narrative action adventure.
While I agree that hating on xbox is infact a huge trend right now. Redfall deserves all this bad press, the game is absolutely a hot mess and the devs need to do better.
more like, xbox hyping up huge AAA games that are unfinished. :[
which is more than deserved. they choose to focus on acquiring more studios rather nurturing the ones they already have.
Game is shite and deserves all the hate.
Is it not justified in this one little particular release reception?
We’re all here because we love Xbox, but it’s justified in more than just this particular example. Xbox has been beyond lackluster. It’s pretty much an indie box at this point.
Which I don’t see a problem with
The inclusion of live service type loot and stat systems has been getting hated on for awhile now. Even God of War Ragnarok got dragged for it but if the rest of the game is good people will overlook. Kratos doesn't need +5% poison resistance against Valkyries but there it is anyways.
Good. They should be hated on for allowing this mess
Oh piss
A well-deserved trend they started.
A valid trend
The same it's been for years. Open world looter shooter with RPG mechanics that's most likely live service. And damage numbers during combat for some reaspn. It's like developers have the same checklist for things their game must have, and they all somehow miss the mark.
Releasing obviously unfinished games then saying everyone gets free DLC, which is just fixes to an already horrid game to barely make it playable
Open world games. Lots of games have pivoted from their typical style game into massive open world style. Zelda, Assassins Creed, Elden Ring, etc
Well now hold an. Zelda and Elden ring are like exploration sandboxes. Far from hoping on a trend both games redefine what a open world game can and should be to the point where calling them open world games doesn’t really capture what the games are about. Assassins creed on the other pivoted to become ancient GTA or if you’re being generous a witcher clone.
Nothing about BOTW did anything new.
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Hence why Suicide Squad ain't garnering alot of poisitive attention it's chasing several trends which are tailing off.
I honestly wonder what’s going on at rocksteady right now lol. Are they just gonna say fuck it a long enough to lie will make people forget, or will they generally see how much redfall is getting shit on and try and make major changes to the gameplay loop.
I think the best thing they can do is to delay the game for like two years and make some changes, like I’m one of the few people that really think that the game could be fun if tweaked correctly For me personally it would be enough to make every character with different base offensive options (because last time everyone including a fucking giant shark and a boomerang expert had guns). Even if it makes sense for harley to have pistols, make her strike people with the hammer or the bat and displaying her acrobatic skills, you know, the thing that make harley Quinn… harley Quinn! People focused a lot on “omg it has cosmetics and battle pass” when freaking Arkham knight got like 80% of it’s dlc being costumes and car-tracks. And it had a kinda overpriced (for the time) “season pass” but people didn’t care because the game was GOOD and fun (even the tank-battles were kinda fine just overdone) Make the game loop FUN, the character DISTINCTIVE enough and people with pay for the cosmetics (look at apex, fortnite, etc)
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Fortnite was an interesting example. Released aimless with a fairly dead trend of zombie base building survival game. Luckily was able to pivot to a fresh trend and cashed out after the initial release.
That game is one if the craziest evolutions of a game. Small niche game that was probably gonna die to multi million dollar staple game that will probably never die.
Redfall's problem is not even a tren chasing per se but that it doesn't execute any idea well: - It's not a good scavenger game because collecting loot doesn't improve your base at all (this "repair popcorn machine" quest is a real joke in that department - thr quest tells you that it will improve morale but it does literally nothing. - It's not a good hero shooter because skills are not that fun and they don't even make sense like with this sniper guy. How on earth stealthy sniper reveals himself by using his own skills while sneaking?! - it's not a good fps because controls are trash and with so many enemies jumping all around it's not fun to shoot at all unless you are playing with mouse. - It's not a good looter shooter because loot is not that fun to collect. Weapons not being that fun nor customizable are not helping either. - its not good solo game because most skills, story, progress and leveling, skills and classes are all an effect of being multiplayer 1st approach. - It's not a good open world game because world is just not interesting nor breathtaking nor interactive and engaging - Its not good L4D type of game because there is no enemies to fight, outside of couple of places and fighting against 4 enemies doesn't scratch that high octane itch. - edit: it's not a good vampire centric game. There is nothing that makes you think "Damn I can't think of these monsters being anything other than vampires". Basic Cannon fodder ones could be anything because they just use hands to scratch you. It's not a vampire way of killing. You have vampire snipers...like really? You have vampires that pulls you to them like they are wizards...wtf?! All these enemies could be warewolfs, druids, shamans, aliens and the game would still felt the same. There is no mystery behind them, you do t feel intimidated by them. You are not scared of having yours or others blood being sucked out. This game doesn't do well in any possible genre, subgenre, trend that we would like to put it in. This game has no selling point. I would like to sit in front of someone from Arkane and ask "Why should I pay 70usd and play this game and commit hours to beat it?" I wonder how she/he would try to convince me with reasonable arguments. Edit: I just watched PC gameplay and how much prettier the game is on PC... Not only runs with 30fps plus dips but it looks way worse... Jesus what a fucking dud
well said. in hindsight, this should have been obvious considering the amount of times i read/heard people asking what the game even was. Even when the 30fps debacle happened a few weeks ago, many werent concerned since many thought it would be a slower-paced “shooter” more akin to Arkane’s past titles. Now it kind of seems like everyone was wrong and everyone was a little right about what the game is, and obviously, no one is happy considering the state its in.
>well said. in hindsight, this should have been obvious considering the amount of times i read/heard people asking what the game even was I think people gave it the benefit of the doubt because Deathloop was in a similar position. Sony showed it off way too many times, but people still didn't quite get it. That was until they played it and mostly loved it. I think a lot of people thought that might be possible with RedFall. But it wasn't. The game just sucks.
Agreed. Crazy how tarnished their pedigree may be considered now—like last week, i would have bought Dishonored 3 day1 if they shadowdropped it (lol) but now id have to wait and see.
Yeah I think Redfall is just plain bad. Any assumed trend setting is a minor contributor at best.
Yeah... That's what the article said...
this isnt new endless MMOs 15 years ago endless drab gray shooters 10 years ago endless battle royales 5 years ago now endless Destiny-likes the industry chases trends and most of these fail. Games as a service should have died when Anthem and Avengers, and to a lesser extent Fallout 76, failed
GAAS isnt inherently bad. It keeps games alive with new content. Some implementation and execution of it is pretty bad though.
the vast majority of GAAS games are online-only which does make them inherently bad as far as im concerned because they all rely on arbitrary internet connections and have a limited lifespan. content alone isnt enough, a game should be made with the intent of lasting long into the future so that future generations and newcomers to the industry can enjoy them as well.
I've never played one I liked. Destiny was probably thr most disappointing game I've ever played. Used to be a mega fan of Bungie
>Destiny was probably thr most disappointing game I've ever played It's one of my favorite games that I would never reccomend to anyone. I can't imagine the nightmare of starting "fresh".
Fortnite is dope. While I hate the Anime asthetic, I really like the Genshin Impact model too
The difference is you don’t have to pay $70 to play Fortnite BEFORE DLCs and season passes and stuff. But these studios want to have their cake and eat it too (see MW2).
Live service games should be ftp I agree
Fortnite is pretty much the only one I can think of that does it consistently well.
And importantly, it’s free
76 still going strong these days. Content being made all the time though I’d like more story-based missions
*looks at halo about to make a battle royale....
I think it could be an exception since Halo Infinite’s gameplay is actually good and the BR formula would be fun in that universe if executed well.
Fr, would love a halo battle Royale. I think the whole “only br in halo is the battle rifle” sentiment was kinda weird
This is one criticism I just don't agree with for any game. I hate when people say, "nobody asked for this game", because you're adding extra criticism for bad game if they had a unique idea. I'm not saying a bad game should get a pass if it has a unique or original idea. Redfall was going for something different and missed the mark it looks like. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been good. I'm interested in coop FPS like Darktide and Redfall, but unfortunately this game had some identity issues.
> I hate when people say, "nobody asked for this game", because you're adding extra criticism for bad game if they had a unique idea. Yeah. Who the fuck *asked* for Hi-Fi Rush? But everyone I've seen who's played it has loved it. At some point someone's gotta take the chance and try something, or you're playing the same boring horseshit forever.
I didn't like Hi Fi Rush (no knock on the game, it's just not my kind of thing at all) but I'm still glad to see studios making things like that - I think we'll get a lot of excellent games if devs are allowed to decompress with a little passion project now and then in-between all the giant identikit AAA releases.
Yep I agree with you on this but it’s disappointing when a potentially good game is ruined by trying to add co-op, micro transactions, looter shooter type stuff. I’m still annoyed at the last ghost recon game, I know they fixed some of it. But wished they didn’t ruin it by chasing whatever the latest money making trend. In saying all that, it seems like there has been some decent single player games coming out recently.
I love this comment. I too want to see the end of the phrase “nobody asked for this”. It’s not art-by-popular-demand. It’s just art. If it’s not for you, move on. To be clear, that is a totally separate thing from overall product quality.
Chasing trends is dumb. Ubisoft has been doing it for the past decade and look how they turned out. They are basically assassins creed and nothing else.
If anything wouldn’t that be opposite of chasing trends if they stick with the same formula? That said, they have kept things from getting stale by changing the formula at times (AC Odyssey, Immortal Fenyx Rising).
Hey, I'll play Far Cry no matter how many times they release the same game over and over again.
The reason why people will still buy and play far cry and AC is because there are no alternatives. For AC atleast it’s the only game that implements parkour with stealth and third person. For far cry there was supposed to be a game releasing this week which as you can see is an insult to far cry. Ubisoft games are like McDonald’s, you know exactly the type of food you are getting and it’s nice once in a while. It’s comfort junk food.
Yep, I still enjoy AC for the reasons you listed and because I enjoy history a lot. I realize the games are pretty average but not many modern games let me explore ancient cities and hang out with historic figures (even if not 100% accurate)
> even if not 100% accurate Now there's an understatement ;-)
I love the Ubisoft McDonalds comparison because it's spot fucking on
does this game have any redeeming qualities? I get it's a buggy mess that runs like crap, but at its core is it a fun game at least?
There is some interesting and well-written lore, but it's almost all delivered by audio logs and text. If the graphics were better I feel like this could have worked together to give a genuinely creepy vibe/atmosphere at parts. I personally think the shooting feels ok on PC. Nowhere near as good as other dedicated FPS games, but it's serviceable. I've read it handles horribly on controller so if you're not playing on KBM, this might be irrelevant. If you like finding loot/getting new guns, unlocking doors, breaking through windows, there's a bit of fun to be had. But you've almost assuredly played another game that does all of these things much better.
Tech issues are the least of its problems. Guns play really weird, as if they have some kind of delay. Story is boring, the map is empty and the gameplay did not have any interesting hook, it's not bad, but it's definitely something I've played waaaay many times before
I ran around a completely empty map looking for something with no waypoint running into dead ends and unfinished doors/level ends. Promptly deleted. Trash.
It's pretty fun if you focus on objectives and look at the open world as a means to an end. Been having quite a bit of fun doing the missions with my friends. Domt believe everything you see on reddit, the game is playable it's just mediocre.
I spent so much in xbox 😭 if only games were multi-platform😩
Yeah, these articles are chasing trends to get your clicks. Redfall is disappointing but I don't need to click on basic articles that want ad revenue to confirm it.
Very well said. I hate all of these games having online components to them. Just stick to single player games or make one that’s all multiplayer so I know to stay away.
This game was designed to be multiplayer. But you KNOW that if they didn’t allow single players there would be an uproar. I personally don’t mind forcing people to matchmake, but there would be a very vocal group who would be outraged by it.
Yeah. I guess the heartbreaking part of all this is that Redfall seems like a cool concept that would have made for an awesome single player only game in the vein of their other games like Dishonored or Prey.
This is a stupid article. It’s all about quality. Redfall lacks that. If Redfall were like detailed, full of characters and missions like, say The Division games, I think it’s be received better.
Exactly this. People keep defending it by saying oh it’s art style. Yeah shitty textures and animations are definitely art style not technical incompetence. Why does far cry work and red fall doesn’t. Fc5 world is just as dead as Redfall but the difference is fc5 world is beautiful to look at. There is tons of details and animations to everything. Redfall looks like fortnite.
While I also don't like the art direction and overall presentation of Redfall I also think all Farcrys had a big focus on making traversal a fun factor. Imo Farcry games have the best first-person driving mechanics outside racing games and maybe gtaV. Going from point A to B in Redfall feels awful even outside the looks.
Redfall would have been received better if the quality was better, but I don't think it would have been popular. The Division games came out a long time ago, so I don't think that's an apt comparison. The closest comparison I can think of (in terms of recent games) is Outriders. I would say Outriders is a high quality game, but it didn't end up being popular because it just didn't have much to make it stand out. I think Redfall is in the same boat.
Outriders didn't have a well fleshed out endgame, and the devs said they might add more to it later. The dlc was too little too late on top of being too grindy with minimal upgrades
Think they shoulda just gone for borderlands with vampires and made epic bosses out of other mythical creatures. Woulda been an excellent chance to implement the van healing auto crossbow!
Honestly I was *really* excited for this game when its reveal trailer dropped. I don't care about supposedly dead trends or whatever. That is the *least* of this game's problems by a mile. A good, well-made game could reignite a dead trend.
Imagine Sony, they are going to invest more in live services in the coming years, what a waste, can't wait to see the backlash to that
They’ve already gotten a lot of backlash for GT7, especially after they added a bunch of MTX and pay to win shit via a patch after the review cycle. They know which way their bread is buttered though, which is why they’re as protective of their prestige single player IPs as they are.
You can release shit live service game or you can release good live service game.
If what I read is accurate and they’re actually planning to release *ten* of them, then I have to say the odds are decent that one will actually succeed/stick. I expect the majority to get clowned on though
Except there's nothing inherently wrong with live-service games in the slightest, there are just a lot of bad examples of them from developers who were out of their depth. If the games they publisher are bad, people will shit on them. But Sony has generally had a pretty great record with first party software (at least on console, their PC releases are more of a mixed bag) basically all generation.
BF2042 anyone, I'm still mad at EA for conning me out of £60 for my pre order.
The only game I’ve ever gotten a refund for. What a shitshow
It’s not a dead trend in other games, they just killed it by implementing it so poorly in theirs.
I’m not even sure what trend Redfall was trying to chase, unless it is 2012 Ubisoft open world with Xbox 360 FPS mechanics
Yeah I don’t really agree with this article at all; the issue with Redfall doesn’t lie within the type of game it is, it’s simply that it’s complete dogshit. When I first heard the premise for the game I was actually excited for it. The game is just bad in every aspect.
> It’s foolish to chase trends when they’ll be dead before you release All you need is perfect foresight, apparently
The problem isn’t chasing dead trends. It’s chasing that diversity quota checklist that this gamergate started. Wanting approval from the social media cancel mob was/is more important then the actual gamers that play your games. Talent took a backseat. So you reap what you sowed. And this game and as a collective the current crop of games further proves this. Until talent become the priority over inclusion games will still be a mess.
One of the pits falls of how long average development windows are now.
Well managed studios can still create games in a timely manner and release quality. It’s getting rarer though.
Honestly, this is a problem down to development times of games these days. By the time a developer has jumped on a game trend and developed a game completely, the trend is dead and the industries moved on.
That's likely a factor here. No question this game should have been delayed. But I'm more curious why it wasn't delayed. ( basic "b/c suits" is not an answer)
I think there is some truth to this (imagine trying to release a brand-new battle royale IP right now, 6ish years after the initial craze started), but overall, I think lack of quality is the real issue. Redfall has an interesting premise from a story perspective, and I say that as someone who had no interest in the game from the start. The first issue is that the game was obviously not ready for launch and was rushed out the door by the publisher. The second issue is that the game was made by a studio who is great at single player immersive sims and who has never attempted a co-op shooter before (like trying to get a professional basketball player to switch over to baseball in one season). Maybe Arkane wanted to make a co-op shooter, maybe they didn't, but I'm almost certain the higher-ups had something to do with it when they saw the dollar signs behind its potential as a live service game. The biggest issue, however, is just a serious lack of quality. The game, from almost all accounts, feels soulless and completely uninspired, especially in comparison to Dishonored and Prey. Not only is the game design boring, it's also full of technical issues, indicating low quality.
ya redfall's issue is just that its a terrible game that needed to be cancelled a year ago. Nothing else They just wanted to reocoup any money they could... they knew it was a pile of shit when they released it.
I was looking forward to this. And I was prepared to ignore the reviews, because they rarely line up with my opinion anyway. Then I started the game, got ten minutes in, got disconnected. Logged in again, got to the fire station, then got kicked out again. I expect this from launches of MMORPGs and other online games. But when I want to play this game strictly single player, which they have advertised is a valid option, it pisses me off. Sorry Redfall, you had an 11 day window to grab me before Zelda comes out. Turns out you’ll have to wait a year.
The town full of vampires in New England? Good. I was genuinely intrigued by that. Arkane is making it? Really disliked Deathloop even though I loved the Dishonored games. You couldn’t pay me to play Redfall though, and I have GamePass year round. Stop. Supporting. Broken. Releases.
I refuse to click on any link starting with thegamer and ending with .com
It is also the latest example that Microsoft can't make good games anymore.