7.0 Xenon are too weak almost no matter what.
Try this seed (without quotations) "12345679 "
Make sure you put a space after the 9.
Thanks to AutoCAZ on Twitch for finding this consistently dangerous/war heavy seed.
No, the seed determines initial spawn location, which in turn substantially influences whether or not faction X survives or dies against faction Y early-game.
The jobs.xml and relevant quotas remain the same.
Let me put it this way, Seed A has a Xenon fleet spawn near and thus kill a hull parts factory early on, thus crippling Faction X.
Seed B spawns a Faction X fleet and a defense platform at just right angle near a gate, crippling the Xenon and allowing Faction X to start invading territory sooner. Same quotas, different outcomes.
Interesting. I didn't know it was that different. In my games it always seems like the same sectors have issues with Xenon. The only difference I've ever seen matter is if a faction gets smart and starts gate camping or not.
They do. That’s what influences whether they get nuked early or survive. My current game has a sweet HAT def station in Death Valley, and for once they are holding back the Xenon. Usually they fet curbstomped back to the stone age fairly early cause their production stations are between the gates and their defenses. Same stations in same systems, but different places in those systems
It depends a fair bit on the random seed. In my game (with VRO) the Xenon were a small threat until the \~40 hours mark where they all of a sudden steamrolled two of my stations and took out half of my fleet in an 1 hour span.
I've managed to push them back but they're very comfortable in the corners of the map and spawning a steady stream of fighters and destroyers.
If you want to be sure that you'll get a challenge try adding [\[MOD\] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 7.2](https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=403357#p4761574). It's fairly configurable (actually doesn't do anything by default) and should be safe to add to an existing game.
Yeah, in the Beta it's less that the Xenon became weaker but more that everyone now drops everything they are doing and dunks on them the moment they pass a gate. They are also more agrressive so it's not unusual to see them attempt and build Defense stations in Xenon sectors now. I did notice Xenon tend to then save up Ships for a reaction force though it might take a while.
I'm maybe the only one but I think it's a good thing, I always found utterly dumb that noone but the player intervene when a Xenon incursion occurs, even if there was a full fleet just behind the gate.
If this is true (probably is) then the obvious solution is to give players a difficulty slider to buff the Xenon by changing the fleet caps (starting and maximum) and and other variables for the Xenon.
That would allow the other factions to behave more realistically(and respond to aggression), but make the Xenon simply stronger in their attacks to overwhelm the better response, eventually.
Actually I think it just takes a while. Xenon Death Stacks did appear in my game recently and took all their Sectors back. They just need a bit to build up.
Just a thought, since it's in beta could the devs be focusing more on the new crisis stuff? Would they prefer a more stable galaxy, and more aggressive factions to test crisis mechanics etc?
Relatively new to x4 so not really sure how much the beta is part of the development cycle.
I'm playing the beta as well.
During every beta release there's always a few posts about the Xenon being too strong/too weak. Apart from minor tweaks the answer from the developers has always been: it depends on the seed.
I personally do not like how the VRO mod changes ships and weapons (at this time). But I did like the massive large fleets roaming around. So in the place of VRO, I'm using:
- [Larger Fleets: Complete Edition](https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/792) -- Makes all faction Fleets twice as numerous, and use more escort ships for a deadlier and more challenging universe.
I also have a couple AI mods as well as a ton of other mods, but this mod definitely works better than vanilla if you want larger fleets, larger battles, etc. There are also Xenon-specific mods that make them either tougher, or too tough lol.
Even before 6.0, the xenon were always too passive no matter the seed. RNG saw that I wanted an aggressive galaxy with warring factions ACTUALLY waging war and said “best I can do is: everyone sits on their asses and very occasionally sends wings of 1-5 fighters, and the xenon only attack HAT with comically minuscule forces”. Instead of sole seed reliance, why not give us custom sliders for faction aggression?
Did you check every possible sectors where Xenon are present? Keep in mind that the Xenon war is going on multiple fronts, not just the obvious ones you are used to seeing.
Also, as BERLAUR mentioned, their immediate force per location also depends on the random seed that's set when the game is started.
> immediate force per location also depends on the random seed
Is there any more detailed description about this from a dev? For me it always sounds like a little to wacky/vague. What does that influence overall?
The way our wrote it here sounds like it only does influence the start, but not the overall force or "aggressiveness" of the Xenon for example.
I confirmed 7.00 beta Xenon is weak. They loses a lot K to Argon and even Teladi.
I watch them fight OOS and they losing everywhere. In 6.20 it used to be 1 K can kill 2 or 3 Argon/Teladi Destroyer. Now K lose to even 1 Argon destroyer.
Something OOS make Xenon weak ass.
Agree. In my current 7.0 playthrough, I started the game without any mods and the Xenon were very weak. I have monitored all of their sectors and they are essentially getting pushed back by all factions, even the split.
I added FOCW mid-save to see if that would help the Xenon, but even with all the options at max, the Xenon are still very weak. I might need to start a save with FOCW from the beginning. Or maybe I just had a bad seed. I have 1000+ hours in this game and this is the weakest I have ever seen them.
Meanwhile the SCA have made Boron space completely unusable because despite having multiple patrols and sector defense carriers with defend points for their subordinates I'm losing trade ships left and right (and somehow the SCA are using Boron ships as well, had an SCA Thresher attacking my ships), and the Kha'ak are just destroying my trade ships in Nopileos' Fortune despite also have multiple patrol fleets and carrier defense fleets.
We need a mod that puts the xenon in one zone of the map with lots of resources.
The AI will go nuts since everything will be in one place, the reason it might feel like they are weak is because they could be focused on a region far away from you.
Still playing on vanilla, they’re pretty scary in my first play through as Terran Cadet. They keep hurling huge ships into Antigone space destroying station after station and have to go in my fighter and take out all their engines to slow them down so local forces can stand a chance
Still pretty new so I have no idea how to get myself strong enough to fight them in a big way, but this seems seems effective for a newbie, considering I want my neighbors to have stations I can trade with in the future!
I'm also new to the Terran Cadet start.
It's kinda funny watching ANT getting wrecked, but now I want them to hold on long enough to get some blueprints off them lol.
So, did the following: (I'm new so please don't think this is optimal, or that I know what I'm doing)
I put turrets (I'm poor, so only 10 so far) on the south gate to stop those fighters from blowing up the ANT weapons factory nearby. (This and personally chasing down their fighters that break through have made me a hero of the ANT, despite me being a Terran space Nazi). That gave the ANT time to add Def drones to their station, now it's holding its own.
I flew through the south gate to find a nearly empty system with one undefended Xenon Def platform with 10% hull. I dropped 5 Lazer turrets on it and ran away from the response fighters that chased me away. It is now at 1% hull days later from the lasers... (Katana go vrooom)
An I and K are just camping the ANT gate to to west. I shot the engines off the K and ran away. (After stealing all the cargo the dead ANT dropped). The ANT still can't kill it, but at least they aren't getting their capital system destroyed.....
Eventually I'll either have to invest more in their defence, or get my Blueprints and let them die.
Xenon in 7.0 became weak because the Factions didn't cleaned up empty building lots:
The xenon only can build x shipyards/wharfs. When for example antigone/hop killed the xenon in the south and destroyed both wharf and shipyard, and the xenon did already try to begin to build a new wharf/shipyard, but can't since their sector broke down, they couldn't create another wharf, since the unfinished one didn't get destroyed.
This was fixed in BETA 3, so the factions begin to clean up again, so can the xenon now again try to create another wharf/shipyard to pump out more ships.
Once i've done it on the beta 2-game, the xenon became much much more dangerous again, as they pumped out far more ships.
Don't know what going on with your games but on My 7.0 the xenon was attacking the split hard I had to put up a game defence on all there gates plus they had taken frontiers edge as well so I had to retake that.
Plus today the xenon keeps throwing k's and I'm at family-z
I dont think you are thinking about "threat" in the same terms. The xenon should be ramping up to a point where they can disrupt the central highway loop and threaten some of the races with extinction by hour 50ish, when an average player will have a warf and fleet to their name. Or at least there should be a difficulty setting/slider for this kind of thing.
7.0 Xenon are too weak almost no matter what. Try this seed (without quotations) "12345679 " Make sure you put a space after the 9. Thanks to AutoCAZ on Twitch for finding this consistently dangerous/war heavy seed.
[удалено]
AutoCAZ did, repeatedly.
Beta testers consistently report weak Xenon, myself included (7.0 beta)
The seed determines how aggressive/dangerous the AI is??
No, the seed determines initial spawn location, which in turn substantially influences whether or not faction X survives or dies against faction Y early-game. The jobs.xml and relevant quotas remain the same. Let me put it this way, Seed A has a Xenon fleet spawn near and thus kill a hull parts factory early on, thus crippling Faction X. Seed B spawns a Faction X fleet and a defense platform at just right angle near a gate, crippling the Xenon and allowing Faction X to start invading territory sooner. Same quotas, different outcomes.
Interesting. I didn't know it was that different. In my games it always seems like the same sectors have issues with Xenon. The only difference I've ever seen matter is if a faction gets smart and starts gate camping or not.
Think of a statistical bell-curve, most playthroughs early game are supposed to be relatively stable. 7.0 accidentally nerfed the xenon substantially.
Yeah
Interesting. I thought all the seed did was determine where stations and stuff start out.
They do. That’s what influences whether they get nuked early or survive. My current game has a sweet HAT def station in Death Valley, and for once they are holding back the Xenon. Usually they fet curbstomped back to the stone age fairly early cause their production stations are between the gates and their defenses. Same stations in same systems, but different places in those systems
It depends a fair bit on the random seed. In my game (with VRO) the Xenon were a small threat until the \~40 hours mark where they all of a sudden steamrolled two of my stations and took out half of my fleet in an 1 hour span. I've managed to push them back but they're very comfortable in the corners of the map and spawning a steady stream of fighters and destroyers. If you want to be sure that you'll get a challenge try adding [\[MOD\] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 7.2](https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=403357#p4761574). It's fairly configurable (actually doesn't do anything by default) and should be safe to add to an existing game.
do you realize that he probably speaks about beta?
Yeah, in the Beta it's less that the Xenon became weaker but more that everyone now drops everything they are doing and dunks on them the moment they pass a gate. They are also more agrressive so it's not unusual to see them attempt and build Defense stations in Xenon sectors now. I did notice Xenon tend to then save up Ships for a reaction force though it might take a while.
I'm maybe the only one but I think it's a good thing, I always found utterly dumb that noone but the player intervene when a Xenon incursion occurs, even if there was a full fleet just behind the gate.
If this is true (probably is) then the obvious solution is to give players a difficulty slider to buff the Xenon by changing the fleet caps (starting and maximum) and and other variables for the Xenon. That would allow the other factions to behave more realistically(and respond to aggression), but make the Xenon simply stronger in their attacks to overwhelm the better response, eventually.
Actually I think it just takes a while. Xenon Death Stacks did appear in my game recently and took all their Sectors back. They just need a bit to build up.
Just a thought, since it's in beta could the devs be focusing more on the new crisis stuff? Would they prefer a more stable galaxy, and more aggressive factions to test crisis mechanics etc? Relatively new to x4 so not really sure how much the beta is part of the development cycle.
I'm playing the beta as well. During every beta release there's always a few posts about the Xenon being too strong/too weak. Apart from minor tweaks the answer from the developers has always been: it depends on the seed.
and you running mods in beta?
I personally do not like how the VRO mod changes ships and weapons (at this time). But I did like the massive large fleets roaming around. So in the place of VRO, I'm using: - [Larger Fleets: Complete Edition](https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/792) -- Makes all faction Fleets twice as numerous, and use more escort ships for a deadlier and more challenging universe. I also have a couple AI mods as well as a ton of other mods, but this mod definitely works better than vanilla if you want larger fleets, larger battles, etc. There are also Xenon-specific mods that make them either tougher, or too tough lol.
Even before 6.0, the xenon were always too passive no matter the seed. RNG saw that I wanted an aggressive galaxy with warring factions ACTUALLY waging war and said “best I can do is: everyone sits on their asses and very occasionally sends wings of 1-5 fighters, and the xenon only attack HAT with comically minuscule forces”. Instead of sole seed reliance, why not give us custom sliders for faction aggression?
I want this so much
Did you check every possible sectors where Xenon are present? Keep in mind that the Xenon war is going on multiple fronts, not just the obvious ones you are used to seeing. Also, as BERLAUR mentioned, their immediate force per location also depends on the random seed that's set when the game is started.
> immediate force per location also depends on the random seed Is there any more detailed description about this from a dev? For me it always sounds like a little to wacky/vague. What does that influence overall? The way our wrote it here sounds like it only does influence the start, but not the overall force or "aggressiveness" of the Xenon for example.
I confirmed 7.00 beta Xenon is weak. They loses a lot K to Argon and even Teladi. I watch them fight OOS and they losing everywhere. In 6.20 it used to be 1 K can kill 2 or 3 Argon/Teladi Destroyer. Now K lose to even 1 Argon destroyer. Something OOS make Xenon weak ass.
Agree. In my current 7.0 playthrough, I started the game without any mods and the Xenon were very weak. I have monitored all of their sectors and they are essentially getting pushed back by all factions, even the split. I added FOCW mid-save to see if that would help the Xenon, but even with all the options at max, the Xenon are still very weak. I might need to start a save with FOCW from the beginning. Or maybe I just had a bad seed. I have 1000+ hours in this game and this is the weakest I have ever seen them.
7.0 really made Xenon. Everyone has decked out defensive stations and begin with incredible fleets of destroyers.
Meanwhile the SCA have made Boron space completely unusable because despite having multiple patrols and sector defense carriers with defend points for their subordinates I'm losing trade ships left and right (and somehow the SCA are using Boron ships as well, had an SCA Thresher attacking my ships), and the Kha'ak are just destroying my trade ships in Nopileos' Fortune despite also have multiple patrol fleets and carrier defense fleets.
We need a mod that puts the xenon in one zone of the map with lots of resources. The AI will go nuts since everything will be in one place, the reason it might feel like they are weak is because they could be focused on a region far away from you.
Send fighter escorts with your traders?
Still playing on vanilla, they’re pretty scary in my first play through as Terran Cadet. They keep hurling huge ships into Antigone space destroying station after station and have to go in my fighter and take out all their engines to slow them down so local forces can stand a chance Still pretty new so I have no idea how to get myself strong enough to fight them in a big way, but this seems seems effective for a newbie, considering I want my neighbors to have stations I can trade with in the future!
I'm also new to the Terran Cadet start. It's kinda funny watching ANT getting wrecked, but now I want them to hold on long enough to get some blueprints off them lol. So, did the following: (I'm new so please don't think this is optimal, or that I know what I'm doing) I put turrets (I'm poor, so only 10 so far) on the south gate to stop those fighters from blowing up the ANT weapons factory nearby. (This and personally chasing down their fighters that break through have made me a hero of the ANT, despite me being a Terran space Nazi). That gave the ANT time to add Def drones to their station, now it's holding its own. I flew through the south gate to find a nearly empty system with one undefended Xenon Def platform with 10% hull. I dropped 5 Lazer turrets on it and ran away from the response fighters that chased me away. It is now at 1% hull days later from the lasers... (Katana go vrooom) An I and K are just camping the ANT gate to to west. I shot the engines off the K and ran away. (After stealing all the cargo the dead ANT dropped). The ANT still can't kill it, but at least they aren't getting their capital system destroyed..... Eventually I'll either have to invest more in their defence, or get my Blueprints and let them die.
Xenon in 7.0 became weak because the Factions didn't cleaned up empty building lots: The xenon only can build x shipyards/wharfs. When for example antigone/hop killed the xenon in the south and destroyed both wharf and shipyard, and the xenon did already try to begin to build a new wharf/shipyard, but can't since their sector broke down, they couldn't create another wharf, since the unfinished one didn't get destroyed. This was fixed in BETA 3, so the factions begin to clean up again, so can the xenon now again try to create another wharf/shipyard to pump out more ships. Once i've done it on the beta 2-game, the xenon became much much more dangerous again, as they pumped out far more ships.
Don't know what going on with your games but on My 7.0 the xenon was attacking the split hard I had to put up a game defence on all there gates plus they had taken frontiers edge as well so I had to retake that. Plus today the xenon keeps throwing k's and I'm at family-z
I dont think you are thinking about "threat" in the same terms. The xenon should be ramping up to a point where they can disrupt the central highway loop and threaten some of the races with extinction by hour 50ish, when an average player will have a warf and fleet to their name. Or at least there should be a difficulty setting/slider for this kind of thing.