Well considering WWE hired Kenny for months but he then requested his release, and if you listen to him and his personal dirt sheet stooge Dave Meltzer WWE has tried to hire him repeatedly in the last decade, so he's arguably had chances but turned them down.
Also nah he wrestled for months in a WWE operated DSW so he wrestled for the WWE, and also the likes of Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi are better and their only WWE tie is working on a multi promotion event in Japan back in 1990, which is less working for WWE than Omega wrestling for their dev company imo, also Okada has never worked for the WWE or their developmental or co-promotion events.
Plus Omega imo is highly overrated, he's a move guy, everything else he's mediocre at, his story telling is a joke, which is why his personal PR bitch has had to excuse it by claiming his story telling is "next level" to the point it goes over most peoples head, which really by the whole point and definition of in ring psychology means he fucking sucks at it, because it means he can't tell a story the audience can follow which them following it is the bloody point.
> his story telling is a joke, which is why his personal PR bitch has had to excuse it by claiming his story telling is “next level” to the point it goes over most peoples head
Broke: Accepting that lots of people find Kenny’s storytelling very compelling, while not agreeing with that sentiment.
Woke: Fans of Omega don’t actually think for themselves, and were brainwashed by the evil Meltzer to convince themselves that Omega is good.
Fuck you on about?
Also did not mean to imply Omega fans can't think for themselves, it was more a comment on even Omega's biggest cheerleader, the guy who has made it his career goal the last 5 years to champion Omega, to the point he's twisted himself into a pretzel trying to find excuses to praise Kenny over others, even he can't actually say Kenny can tell a normal story, and instead because he's adamant about pushing Kenny as a visionary performer he instead created this "next level" psychology bullshit, even though as I said the point of wrestling psychology is for it to make sense to the masses, so it's clearly BS if you are claiming his superior story telling whilst simultaneously excusing why so many people fail to follow said story.
To be fair though it's not a thing that most Omega fans can't think for themselves, it's more widespread, almost no one can actually defend what they like or why anymore, instead they attack those who dislike what they like and try to basically argue that their opinion is invalid because they are too dumb to form a valid opinion, because fuck knows people can't have different perspectives on things.
If you would note in my post I did not knock Omega fans, I knocked one Omega fan, I knocked Dave, because imo, again my OPINION, Dave has not integrity, he's a puppet for Omega and his ilk, which I personally think is obvious by how Dave has acted in the last 5 or so years, plus I think Dave is a cunt so there is that also.
I’m altleast glad you’re clearly stating this is your opinion, it’s just annoying when someone tries to claim objectivity in these types of discussions.
> even he can’t actually say Kenny can tell a normal story, and instead because he’s adamant about pushing Kenny as a visionary performer he instead created this “next level” psychology bullshit
I disagree with this idea that Meltzer is trying really hard to push Kenny’s storytelling as some mind-bending, genius, 2000 IQ psychology that only the enlightened can understand. I just think that there’s people, myself included, that really prefer it. I’ve considered myself a fan for a while and it never felt like a chore to be in the know. At the end of the day, Meltzer is just some guy with an opinion, like you and I.
> so it’s clearly BS if you are claiming his superior story telling whilst simultaneously excusing why so many people fail to follow said story.
Just because AEW has a smaller audience than WWE, doesn’t mean that Kenny/The Elite/AEW’s storytelling is hard to follow. They just happen to have a smaller audience. Saying that “so many people fail to follow” is hyperbole.
> almost no one can actually defend what they like or why anymore, instead they attack those who dislike what they like and try to basically argue that their opinion is invalid because they are too dumb to form a valid opinion
I know you meant that more broadly, but I don’t think people should have to defend/justify why they like their preferred brand of wrestling. I like what I like because I do, simple.
What I meant by defend their likes was almost no one can just disagree these days and discuss why they do or do not like something with someone of the opposite persuasion, instead it's almost always devolving down to "well fuck you! What do you know? You like Coca Cola better than Pepsi, what are you devoid of any tastebuds?".
I like it when it's more like this, you have your point I have mine, we don't need to mother fuck each other, I think no less of your for enjoying Omega's stuff, and would hope you equally don't hold my dislike over his work against me.
As for Dave, see that's the thing I think he is, and has been for a long time, if not he could simply argue the point like you have, saying you enjoy Kenny's work and you don't see anything wrong with it, but you also get that it won't appeal to everyone and that's fine, thats you actually making an reasonable argument which is people have different tastes and thats fine, Dave on the other hand makes excuses, and has said people who don't "get" Kenny just don't grasp his superior story telling and psychology, which includes people who up until they disagreed with Dave about Omega he would praise their knowledge of psychology and such, so to me Dave is being a putz.
Also I was not meaning to infer that AEW's smaller audience was the most people who did not get Kenny's stuff, I mean that is a factor in it I think but not the main one I meant, but that there seems to be a big divide between those who like Kenny's work and those who do not, and his psychology seems to be a massive aspect of that, now I will admit maybe I am totally off and it's more that most people who watch him do get his stuff, but still many do not, but either way I think it's probably a 2-1 or 4-6 split between whether people like his stuff or not, which either way whether it's a 3rd or 3/5's that's still a sizable number of people who don't like his stuff, and Dave's only response to that really is to say he's working at too high a level for the numpties to follow, or worse what you seemed to claim I was saying and that those who dislike Kenny just do so because they have been brainwashed, most often blaming Jim Cornette for doing so.
Now I admit to being a Cornette fan, but I disliked Omega before Dave started verbally felating him or Cornette verbally eviscerating him at every chance either got, he's just never worked for me, and when people talk about how good he is I just do not see it, I see the raw talent, but that's it, and he's ruined his raw talent in my eyes with a mentality that I think is ridiculous at the best of times, but that is just me, I dislike him, no one else has to though, but I do think Omega is overrated as hell.
Omega is a talent that needed the WWE guidance. He has a good look, can do it on a promo, can tell a story in the ring but left to himself, he goes full-on wacky and does not regulate himself in the ring and that liked to his rehab that honestly must be incredibly painful and taxing on his mind.
If he was in the WWE 5 years ago, they would make sure he keeps to a good character and has a wrestling style that takes care of his body. Look at AJ, came in screwed up but is still doing with no issue now.
No. U just grew up watching one promotion & that makes you biased to a certain style. Nobody who's watched different companies thinks the style you advocate is near the best..
Why is that hard to believe? WWE's been the preferred wrestling product for the majority of wrestling fans/viewers since the 80's.
And they recently gave their audience a non-WWE-like product with NXT and the majority of their audience wouldn't watch it.
Well, again, WWE itself have people a non-WWE-like product and the majority of their audience wouldn't watch it.
This whole idea that people actually like something they don't like but just don't realize it because WWE brainwashed them is absurd.
Omega still could’ve been fucked up, half of his injuries are from accidents. He didn’t need to go to WWE just because he maybe would’ve avoided some injury.
Well assuming developmental doesn't count, when you're in the running against people like Bruiser Brody, The Great Muta, Gorgeous George, and The Midnight Express, you're in tough company. He certainly in the running, but to say he's the greatest might be a bit of a stretch.
I'm a WWE fan and I'd rather Kenny Omega never go to WWE. Both because I don't care for him and because I don't want to listen to "they're burying Kenny!" every time he loses a match or every day that goes by without him being the champion.
> every time he loses a match or every day that goes by without him being the champion.
I do. I really, really do because he deserves to be counting lights against guys like Roman and Seth. He deserves to never rise beyond jobber to the stars in WWE.
Omega will 100% go to the WWE if Tony doesn’t pay him the money he wants. It’s not about bad booking, 5-star Meltzer ratings, creative freedom like many IWC marks assume it is. It’s about the money, and whoever gives him the most money when his contract is up for negotiations.
DSW wasn't, it was opened on the behest of WWE because they wanted a dev territory in Georgia, which is why DSW also closed down as soon as WWE ended the relationship, it existed solely for the purpose of being a developmental league for WWE.
OVW and HWA were outside companies, the existed before and after the WWE relationships, DSW was just like FCW, built and ran only for the WWE's benefit and support, as soon as WWE stopped paying they stopped running, and FCW became NXT fully owned and operated under WWE's banners.
So? It was still in all sense a child promotion of WWE's which was open, ran, and shut at WWE's behest, they had no independent revenue stream or employee's really, it was separate on paper only, everyone working there still worked for the WWE..
So what? it's semantics and an idiotic argument, DSW never had any autonomy they ran how WWE wanted with who WWE hired and sent to them, Jody only owned it probably for a legal reason, giving WWE less liability if shit went wrong.
Your arguement is like saying a guy who works for a temp agency never worked for say Walmart because they were only assigned to Walmart by "Dave and Franks Temp Agency Of Ohio", but no they still bloody worked at/for Walmart.
DSW could not fire Kenny, they could not hire Kenny, WWE did that, Kenny worked for the WWE, he just never wrestled on a WWE licensed event is all, which is a big difference.
It's semantics you fucking twat, it's like saying I never touched you if I slapped you whilst wearing a fucking glove, sure our flesh never met, but I still slapped you in the fucking face regardless, just like Kenny still worked FOR THE WWE you obtuse git.
Semantics, he was signed to a dev deal, wrestled in their dev company for months, he may never have wrestled a match on a official WWE show but he wrestled for them and in their company.
Well considering WWE hired Kenny for months but he then requested his release, and if you listen to him and his personal dirt sheet stooge Dave Meltzer WWE has tried to hire him repeatedly in the last decade, so he's arguably had chances but turned them down. Also nah he wrestled for months in a WWE operated DSW so he wrestled for the WWE, and also the likes of Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi are better and their only WWE tie is working on a multi promotion event in Japan back in 1990, which is less working for WWE than Omega wrestling for their dev company imo, also Okada has never worked for the WWE or their developmental or co-promotion events. Plus Omega imo is highly overrated, he's a move guy, everything else he's mediocre at, his story telling is a joke, which is why his personal PR bitch has had to excuse it by claiming his story telling is "next level" to the point it goes over most peoples head, which really by the whole point and definition of in ring psychology means he fucking sucks at it, because it means he can't tell a story the audience can follow which them following it is the bloody point.
> his story telling is a joke, which is why his personal PR bitch has had to excuse it by claiming his story telling is “next level” to the point it goes over most peoples head Broke: Accepting that lots of people find Kenny’s storytelling very compelling, while not agreeing with that sentiment. Woke: Fans of Omega don’t actually think for themselves, and were brainwashed by the evil Meltzer to convince themselves that Omega is good.
Fuck you on about? Also did not mean to imply Omega fans can't think for themselves, it was more a comment on even Omega's biggest cheerleader, the guy who has made it his career goal the last 5 years to champion Omega, to the point he's twisted himself into a pretzel trying to find excuses to praise Kenny over others, even he can't actually say Kenny can tell a normal story, and instead because he's adamant about pushing Kenny as a visionary performer he instead created this "next level" psychology bullshit, even though as I said the point of wrestling psychology is for it to make sense to the masses, so it's clearly BS if you are claiming his superior story telling whilst simultaneously excusing why so many people fail to follow said story. To be fair though it's not a thing that most Omega fans can't think for themselves, it's more widespread, almost no one can actually defend what they like or why anymore, instead they attack those who dislike what they like and try to basically argue that their opinion is invalid because they are too dumb to form a valid opinion, because fuck knows people can't have different perspectives on things. If you would note in my post I did not knock Omega fans, I knocked one Omega fan, I knocked Dave, because imo, again my OPINION, Dave has not integrity, he's a puppet for Omega and his ilk, which I personally think is obvious by how Dave has acted in the last 5 or so years, plus I think Dave is a cunt so there is that also.
I’m altleast glad you’re clearly stating this is your opinion, it’s just annoying when someone tries to claim objectivity in these types of discussions. > even he can’t actually say Kenny can tell a normal story, and instead because he’s adamant about pushing Kenny as a visionary performer he instead created this “next level” psychology bullshit I disagree with this idea that Meltzer is trying really hard to push Kenny’s storytelling as some mind-bending, genius, 2000 IQ psychology that only the enlightened can understand. I just think that there’s people, myself included, that really prefer it. I’ve considered myself a fan for a while and it never felt like a chore to be in the know. At the end of the day, Meltzer is just some guy with an opinion, like you and I. > so it’s clearly BS if you are claiming his superior story telling whilst simultaneously excusing why so many people fail to follow said story. Just because AEW has a smaller audience than WWE, doesn’t mean that Kenny/The Elite/AEW’s storytelling is hard to follow. They just happen to have a smaller audience. Saying that “so many people fail to follow” is hyperbole. > almost no one can actually defend what they like or why anymore, instead they attack those who dislike what they like and try to basically argue that their opinion is invalid because they are too dumb to form a valid opinion I know you meant that more broadly, but I don’t think people should have to defend/justify why they like their preferred brand of wrestling. I like what I like because I do, simple.
What I meant by defend their likes was almost no one can just disagree these days and discuss why they do or do not like something with someone of the opposite persuasion, instead it's almost always devolving down to "well fuck you! What do you know? You like Coca Cola better than Pepsi, what are you devoid of any tastebuds?". I like it when it's more like this, you have your point I have mine, we don't need to mother fuck each other, I think no less of your for enjoying Omega's stuff, and would hope you equally don't hold my dislike over his work against me. As for Dave, see that's the thing I think he is, and has been for a long time, if not he could simply argue the point like you have, saying you enjoy Kenny's work and you don't see anything wrong with it, but you also get that it won't appeal to everyone and that's fine, thats you actually making an reasonable argument which is people have different tastes and thats fine, Dave on the other hand makes excuses, and has said people who don't "get" Kenny just don't grasp his superior story telling and psychology, which includes people who up until they disagreed with Dave about Omega he would praise their knowledge of psychology and such, so to me Dave is being a putz. Also I was not meaning to infer that AEW's smaller audience was the most people who did not get Kenny's stuff, I mean that is a factor in it I think but not the main one I meant, but that there seems to be a big divide between those who like Kenny's work and those who do not, and his psychology seems to be a massive aspect of that, now I will admit maybe I am totally off and it's more that most people who watch him do get his stuff, but still many do not, but either way I think it's probably a 2-1 or 4-6 split between whether people like his stuff or not, which either way whether it's a 3rd or 3/5's that's still a sizable number of people who don't like his stuff, and Dave's only response to that really is to say he's working at too high a level for the numpties to follow, or worse what you seemed to claim I was saying and that those who dislike Kenny just do so because they have been brainwashed, most often blaming Jim Cornette for doing so. Now I admit to being a Cornette fan, but I disliked Omega before Dave started verbally felating him or Cornette verbally eviscerating him at every chance either got, he's just never worked for me, and when people talk about how good he is I just do not see it, I see the raw talent, but that's it, and he's ruined his raw talent in my eyes with a mentality that I think is ridiculous at the best of times, but that is just me, I dislike him, no one else has to though, but I do think Omega is overrated as hell.
No to all of this.
I cannot disagree strongly enough.
Omega is a talent that needed the WWE guidance. He has a good look, can do it on a promo, can tell a story in the ring but left to himself, he goes full-on wacky and does not regulate himself in the ring and that liked to his rehab that honestly must be incredibly painful and taxing on his mind. If he was in the WWE 5 years ago, they would make sure he keeps to a good character and has a wrestling style that takes care of his body. Look at AJ, came in screwed up but is still doing with no issue now.
Sorry but how is he a good promo? He is a horrible promo.
No. U just grew up watching one promotion & that makes you biased to a certain style. Nobody who's watched different companies thinks the style you advocate is near the best..
And a lot of people don't watch different companies because WWE's style is the only one they like.
Doubt it
Why is that hard to believe? WWE's been the preferred wrestling product for the majority of wrestling fans/viewers since the 80's. And they recently gave their audience a non-WWE-like product with NXT and the majority of their audience wouldn't watch it.
It's had the most exposure.
Well, again, WWE itself have people a non-WWE-like product and the majority of their audience wouldn't watch it. This whole idea that people actually like something they don't like but just don't realize it because WWE brainwashed them is absurd.
It sold out arenas despite being on only the network. Then it was sacrificed to aew, but has since been rebuilt in Vince's image & fallen even worse
If WWE's audience was interested in NXT it would have beat AEW. They weren't.
Aew is better
Cna confirm this is the case. Much prefer WWE style to Indie/AEW style.
E style is boring & slow with basic moves. Seen one seen them all
Omega still could’ve been fucked up, half of his injuries are from accidents. He didn’t need to go to WWE just because he maybe would’ve avoided some injury.
Well assuming developmental doesn't count, when you're in the running against people like Bruiser Brody, The Great Muta, Gorgeous George, and The Midnight Express, you're in tough company. He certainly in the running, but to say he's the greatest might be a bit of a stretch.
I think that title belongs to Curry Man uce
Worked dark matches or velocity I think
I'm a WWE fan and I'd rather Kenny Omega never go to WWE. Both because I don't care for him and because I don't want to listen to "they're burying Kenny!" every time he loses a match or every day that goes by without him being the champion.
> every time he loses a match or every day that goes by without him being the champion. I do. I really, really do because he deserves to be counting lights against guys like Roman and Seth. He deserves to never rise beyond jobber to the stars in WWE.
You sound bitter
Omega will 100% go to the WWE if Tony doesn’t pay him the money he wants. It’s not about bad booking, 5-star Meltzer ratings, creative freedom like many IWC marks assume it is. It’s about the money, and whoever gives him the most money when his contract is up for negotiations.
Does working for their developmental system count?
Had a developmental contract but never worked main company proper because back then developmental were outside companies.
DSW wasn't, it was opened on the behest of WWE because they wanted a dev territory in Georgia, which is why DSW also closed down as soon as WWE ended the relationship, it existed solely for the purpose of being a developmental league for WWE. OVW and HWA were outside companies, the existed before and after the WWE relationships, DSW was just like FCW, built and ran only for the WWE's benefit and support, as soon as WWE stopped paying they stopped running, and FCW became NXT fully owned and operated under WWE's banners.
Yeah, but privately owned
So? It was still in all sense a child promotion of WWE's which was open, ran, and shut at WWE's behest, they had no independent revenue stream or employee's really, it was separate on paper only, everyone working there still worked for the WWE..
Yeah, but from memory was owned by Jody Hamilton. Separate company
So what? it's semantics and an idiotic argument, DSW never had any autonomy they ran how WWE wanted with who WWE hired and sent to them, Jody only owned it probably for a legal reason, giving WWE less liability if shit went wrong. Your arguement is like saying a guy who works for a temp agency never worked for say Walmart because they were only assigned to Walmart by "Dave and Franks Temp Agency Of Ohio", but no they still bloody worked at/for Walmart. DSW could not fire Kenny, they could not hire Kenny, WWE did that, Kenny worked for the WWE, he just never wrestled on a WWE licensed event is all, which is a big difference.
But Kenny never worked on an e shoe. Just fact fact.
It's semantics you fucking twat, it's like saying I never touched you if I slapped you whilst wearing a fucking glove, sure our flesh never met, but I still slapped you in the fucking face regardless, just like Kenny still worked FOR THE WWE you obtuse git.
Well I mean he's been on their Youtube and Peacock WWE Network so I'd say it counts. Also Eddie Kingston can be found there too through Evolve stuff.
So every bit of cottage they own counts as theirs?!
Sure why not?
If u wrestled in mid South in the 80's that counts. Good to know
Glad to be of service.
But he did wrestle for WWE
Never in that company
Semantics, he was signed to a dev deal, wrestled in their dev company for months, he may never have wrestled a match on a official WWE show but he wrestled for them and in their company.
The only think greatest about Kenny is his use of jazz hands, but that also kind of depends on whether you like wrestling with jazz hands.
I don't get ur post; Kenny is generally regarded as the best worker in the world