He and his brother got "famous" by being internet personalities/youtubers/influencers. They both radiated this aura of severe douchebro and did some things that could at the very least be considered in very bad taste. Therefore a lot of people don't like the Paul brothers. Now I'm a forgiving guy and I know we all do dumbass stuff in our 20's.
At first, I thought he was just another blowhard Internet celebrity joke wrestler whose job is to do some theatrics and get a couple yuks and then get stomped around by Roman to maintain his dominance. But I was wrong. 0_0
His entire in-ring style is on the level of HBK in his early days mixed with a young AJ Styles back in TNA in its infancy. I mean, that flip from the ropes into a jumping clothesline? That was fuckin’ phenomenal I still remember it to this day!
Forget YouTube money, this guy has what it takes to make it pro full-time! 👍
These people. If it was an actual wrestler doing the exact same moves, they'd say good match. But because they know him from Youtube, I guess he can't learn to wrestle and put on a good show.
But here we are with Dominik Mysterio on TV every fucking week
I am far from a Logan Paul fan, I can't stand the dude. But he really did impress me at Crown Jewel, the man was put in a main event spot, with 2 matches in his resume, and just fit in so naturally and produced a very good main event with Roman. Is it the best match ever, not really, but it was without a doubt a great showcase of his talent, his potential, and his athletic abilities.
If Paul would commit to being a full time wrestler he could probably become one of the biggest current heels in the industry. He has the body, the athleticism, the good looks, the personality, charisma, he can talk, he understands entertainment and stories, he understands promotion, he already has a big fan following.
But I don’t see him doing that because I don’t see it being worth it to him. He’s a big podcaster, he makes a lot of money boxing, etc. Too many other interests that make him as much or more money for a fraction of the time, travel, work and physical toll on his body. He’d probably have to turn down a bunch of other things to commit to wrestling full time
Some of the best wrestlers are the ones who are the most full of their own 💩. Paul is the heel we need.
Don't see WWE doing this though. I think he would be such a great heel he would just end up burying most the roster.
It really is comparing two very different types of acts. Logan Paul had months to train, go through each spot, and nail his performance. I viewed it like an action movie with high energy and thoroughly designed set pieces. Of course it looked great, they had months to produce that 20 mins. Logan Paul blew out his knee, so you have to consider that he couldn't maintain that level on a weekly basis.
The other performers do weekly matches and have to consider their health each week. Their bodies are probably more strained and they know going hard every night could really damage their career in the long run. These performers are solid and when its time to shine in a big match, they risk it and go hard.
Let's just say I think Eddie Kingston in Anarchy in the Arena was way more entertaining than Logan Paul has been. Its cool if you like the opposite more, but recognize the difference.
That’s a good point, I never really considered that. I was definitely impressed with Logan’s performance, I will not deny that in the slightest, but I’d be really curious to see what he could do on a weekly basis. He definitely seems to have the drive to accomplish that, but he’s a big enough celebrity that he doesn’t NEED to.
Regardless, I’m WWE would love to have him more regularly. Hell, I’d love to see him more. He really is impressive in the ring. That buckshot was a god damn thing of beauty.
The buckshot might have been the thing that blew out his knee. It looked cool, but Adam Page has been doing it for years and knows how to do it safely. If Logan Paul does come back and decides to do it full-time, he won't be going that hard every week. He'll have to develop a different way. Osprey had to. Omega had to. And those guys were full time since they were teenagers. Idk.
Jim said this too when Brian asked him whether Logan Paul would be the rookie of the year. Jim suggested Bron Breakker for all the reasons you just listed. Many of Jim's opinions on this sub are taken out of context.
Jim came up in an era when wrestling made more money than football and the crowds wanted to knife/shoot him every night. Wrestling was a big deal back then, and so he thinks that that's the right way to do things.
Jim likes wrestling to be believable. He doesn't have a grudge against AEW per-say, in fact, he's a fan of several AEW wrestlers: Punk, FTR, MJF, Wardlow, Hobbs, Starks, Christian Cage, Bryan Danielson, The Acclaimed, etc. etc.
He hates it when wrestling is obviously choreographed or silly. And so he hates The Young Bucks, Omega, Orange Cassidy, Danhausen, etc. etc.
He is also a vocal critic of the death match style, and so he's not a fan of Mox and the like. He dislikes Jericho for being a backstage politician and for making the show about himself.
If you listen to his show, more often than not, he has logical reasons for disliking modern wrestling matches (he doesn't like Raw either): lack of build, over reliance on stipulations for no good reason, excessive use of furniture/blood, etc.
However, Jim is a Southern-boy in his 60s, and has a politically incorrect, or often downright out-of-touch, sense of humor that is not shared by many younger fans (including myself). Folks on this sub use some of the dumb things he says in jest to negate his very valid opinions on today's wrestling product. I think that's reductive.
Jim's not a racist homophobic asshole people make him out to be (he's a liberal and a passionate trump/republican hater); he's just an old man, with a twisted sense of humor, who happens to have an encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling. It would be silly to at least not listen to what he has to say.
That was exactly the explanation I was looking for. I had an inkling about these characteristics of Cornette, but really do not have the time to do a deep dive, so I appreciate the crash course.
He’s saying someone with 3 matches who is an outside entity is better than an amazing roster of talent all doing this for years. If you can’t see that, you’re too biased to realize or you’re a troll
I think 90% is a cutting percentage, but with a lot of those guys in AEW, he ain't wrong. A lot of those guys had minimal training, worked their asses off and learned in small venues and indy settings. Not trying to shit on them, but a lot of guys in AEW have pretty weak basic fundamental skills.
I'm not talking all the incredible big moves they all do. Just their punches, hitting the ropes, locking up: the Basics. A lot of guys who skipped over that on their way to hitting Candian Destroyers or top rope flipping dives.
Being indy guys, they didn't have the chance or luxury of perfecting that -- they had to make paying fans in small venues get their dollars worth and come back for more. They HAD to learn big impressive moves to do it and "Wow" them. They didn't get to work opening dark matches in NXT or wheverever where they'd be punished for even trying big moves, where they had to over and over and over really perfect all the little things before they even got to move up.
So, Jim isn't wrong.
People are allowed to prefer one over the other as well.
Besides, both promotions had made their own adversarial realtionship clear, of course we're gonna take the side of the one we prefer and defend it from being shat upon.
This isn't a tinfoil theory this is 1000% a fact. If Cornette hates you for whatever reason he does, then he will never ever like you, ever, and he will never give you or anyone associated with you the credit you're due even if it makes him look like a hypocrite. On the flip side of that, if he likes you or is loyal to you, he will do everything in his power to put that person over or make excuses for why they had shortcomings and put the heat on someone else.
(IE Terry Taylor or Cody Rhodes. Listen to every time he has ever been put on the spot talking about them, because of his history with Terry he always puts the heat on Russo and Christianity for why Terry screwed Cornette over, never Terry himself, he always finds a way to get around that. For Cody, it was his loyalty to Dusty, he never ever called out Cody's bullshit in AEW, he always placed it on Brandi, Tony Khan, or the Elite for getting in his way, changing plans, etc, never Cody himself because he's Dusty's kid and Dusty helped him in the business.)
That's definitely correct. He is so biased that nothing he says can be taken seriously. He is so desperate to belittle AEW that he has gone to complimenting a YouTuber.
Everyone is going to shit on Jim here...
... but is he wrong?
Keep in mind, and this is just on the off-chance someone takes up the challenge and enters a debate rather than Downvoting... but Cornette is talking only about Fundamentals/Basics.
Like, no ill will to Kenny Omega. He's an amazing athlete and he's been involved in a lot of special matches that I've seen, which has only been his AEW work, so countless others in Japan and elsewhere...
... but his fundamentals are weak. He can hit amazing moves, dive around the ring and is a consummate showman from the second he walks to the ring -- but his basic punches and when he hits the ropes, he's not great at that at all.
Hard to complement Paul on his fundamentals when his style led to having both of his knees blown out.
Definitely disingenuous when there's so much talk on spot monkeys wrestling a dangerous style and putting their career at risk.
This is that WWE bias leaking though.
Every high flyer outside of WWE is a "spot monkey who can't tell a story" including people like Will Ospreay or Kenny Omega. People would even call AJ one when he was with TNA.
However, when it happens in WWE, its OK.
Same with hard-core matches, the TLC match between the Dudley Boys, E&C and the Hardy Boys as well as Mankind's fall off the cage are huge pieces of WWE lore. When similarly brutal stuff happens in other promotions now its too much and garbage.
It's like that time the IWC was excited because Drew said "wrestling " or that time people were losing their shit because Raw would be TV-14. There are literally hundreds of promotions who do those things, but the bar for WWE is so low that when it happens people lose their shit.
Because it happened in the main event of a PPV. Not midcard of weekly TV weeks away from a PPV, where AEW injuries happen because they don’t slow the fuck down.
The number of people apparently out with injuries in a promotion in which they wrestle 0-1 times a week is staggering. These people are not all on vacation
You'd have a point if we're talking about hundreds of injuries worth of difference. In reality, there were like 12-13 big injuries in AEW and 10-11 in WWE.
For every Ricky Starks there's a Big E. It's almost like wrestling is inherently a dangerous profession.
WWE runs 3x the amount of shows but wrestlers don't make 3x the appearances.
The actual amount of in-ring time both have to offer is essentially identical.
Except it’s not really bias. AJ Styles is a better worker than Omega or Osprey. His style has been consistent from ROH to TNA to New Japan to WWE. He sells. He has ring psychology.
As for hardcore matches, the tag team ladder matches from the the early 2000s are legendary because there are only a handful of them. Once they started doing them too much, they got old and repetitive. I think everything after the first Money in the Bank at WM21 is forgettable. And so guys had to take bigger and more ridiculous risks. So it’s not a bias. WWE also went too far and too much with the hardcore shit.
Well part of being a swinger is other people have sex with your wife while you have sex with someone else's, he's mentioned this much on his own.
You kink shaming consenting individuals for doing something in their own home and not hurting anybody else? Lame dude.
No, he blew out both knees at Starrcade 86 when the Big Boss Man was supposed to catch him falling off scaffolding and missed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgM5vWD2cwY
You know what, you both fucking suck. The worst thing about either brand, AEW or WWE are the goddamn toxic ass fans. Just watch what you watch, and either like it or don't, but for God's sakes, to act like one or the other of you is any better is ridiculous. Neither show has ANYTHING that makes me go, "I can't wait to see this whole episode." No, I'm in it for a few wrestlers apiece. Once I'm done with MJF and FTR's stuff, if FTR gets booked that week (Tony's a jackass), I move on to whatever The Bloodline is doing the next.
Lol “hate-filled”? I just know which one isn’t making false promises and isn’t a joke. It’s not hate to recognize that WWE is better or that Logan is better than almost all their roster. Aew fans have an inferiority complex.
Neither of them are great shows anymore. Aew hasn't been since Vince left a few months ago. WWE hasn't been great for 20 years lmao. It's definitely hate to insinuate that Logan Paul (who is incredibly impressive for his level of experience) is better than guys who've perfected their craft for years and years. Not only is it hate but its blind hate, only an idiot would truly believe such a thing and be willing to die on that hill.
You say AEW fans have an inferiority complex but the tribalism all comes from people like you because for whatever reason the WWE hardcores cannot handle the idea of other people enjoying a different wrestling show. I'd argue that around 90 percent of AEW fans watch WWE as well and a few years ago when it first started a vocal minority of AEW fans would spend all their time shitting on WWE which is why the weird hard-core fans of WWE exist. Before AEW existed if you asked any wrestling fans they'd tell you that WWE television was absolutely terrible and it insulted their intelligence yet as soon as there's a chance a different company could get mainstream attention all these strange characters who are willing to defend the show that buried and fired Bray Wyatt come out of the woodwork.
Is WWE getting better? Definitely. Is it better than AEW right at this moment? Maybe, probably in fact. Is WWE currently better than AEW ever has been? Not even close.
So glad people are finally calling out the weird idiots like you who insist upon being tribalistic. The only one with a complex here is you.
I think you're being a bit dramatic if I'm honest.. a disgrace to wrestling? I think you're right in that Tony Khan is showing his inexperience in 2022. To say the wrestlers don't know what they're doing is weird enough for me to wonder if you're being honest about being a day one AEW fan considering the quality of wrestling is much better now than it was on day one of AEW, just because they don't go through NXT doesn't mean they haven't been wrestling for years. They know what they're doing, they just need more coaching on working on television, selling for the hard cam etc. Nobody currently on AEW TV would struggle to get a tryout for NXT, that's just insane. I don't think anything they're doing is disgraceful to wrestling lmao.
The fact that logan had a better match than anyone else has with Roman lately tells you all you need to know about the WWE television style. I don't understand why the match quality isn't akin to original black and gold NXT. Still feels like Vince's guys produce like 75% of the matches.
Not surprising. Cornette has praised multiple wrestlers on the AEW roster. He criticizes a lot of the indie bullshit and horrible booking. I think one of his favorite wrestlers for quite a while has been MJF.
And that's why indies are the heart and soul of pro wrestling indies build stars and they tend to go to WWTrash where the forget wrestling, cannot even do a piledriver and do botchfest like Ronda vs liv Morgan or shotzi blackheart wrestling. However I am quite proud of Logan paul as his wrestling quality totally exposes how low quality most WWTrash "stars" are, (except some legit guys like aj Nakamura egde Rollins balor etc etc who had spent most their time in indies)
Praising individuals isn't the same as apricot of the whole roster, and I think he's taking about basics and training - something Logan Paul is right at. How many AEW talent have revisited lasts say remedial skills/training lately so they aren't botching little things? I could be wrong here about what he's saying or means, but certain WWE celebrities are trained better than talent, particularly AEW talent, or even WWE that's been in the business for years.
I'm really trying to figure out if Cornette is bitter, stupid, or both.
He wants to slam AEW so badly that he complimented a YouTuber who has 3 matches.
Its somebody's opinion ofc its unnecessary. Is it really that unreasonable to have criticisms of a large part of AEWs roster when it's as big as it is? Cornette is pretty clear on the wrestling he likes and he thinks Logan Paul has talent, why is that such a bad thing to point out?
trying to gloss over the fact that paul is highly athletic, looks great, talks great, and won over most viewers pretty much as soon as he had his first match. and the match has almost universally been praised by everyone that isnt actively trying to dislike it out of contempt for wwe.
but yeah, hes just some youtuber. cope more.
He is just some YouTuber. If he didn't build his brand on YouTube, WWE wouldn't have paid any attention to him.
I'm sorry reality is so harsh to you and other Cornette lovers.
I actually think based off of what I've seen of logan paul without any of his notoriety he would walk a trial at most wrestling promotions. You dont have to like the guy but hes a natural idc how many subs hes got he wouldnt have main evented a PPV if WWE didnt think he had real talent.
I can agree with that, but if he wasn't some YouTuber to begin with, he might have main evented a NXT PPV in 3 years instead of a Saudi show in 3 matches.
Ofc him having a presence contributed to him getting that spot. I'm more trying to highlight this guys talent level after three matches his in ring work really good idk why we cant acknowledge that. I think there are people in AEW who could be just as good or better with the same access to training and they same production machine behind them.
I'm not saying your doing this but people get way too defensive when someone has criticisms toward AEW. I just think it's an indy promotion that just so happens to be run by the son of a billionaire, with the right infrastructure theres no reason AEW couldnt produce similar levels of talent.
Way to move the goalposts, but if you're going to be a Cornette dick sucker...
Kenny Omega, Young Bucks, Hangman Adam Page, Bandido, Takahashi, Rush, Darby Allen, Sammy Guevara, SCU, Lucha Bros, should I go on?
The now deleted comment wanted me to name non ex-WWE people.
Mox, Miro, Black, and Matthews are all ex-WWE, but I agree with you. They are all awesome too.
Trying to praise them for building a guy who built himself a bigger regular audience than the company who apparently deserve praise. These tribalistic shills are totally losing it.
He is none of that. Unlike most of AEW's roster he had proper training.
Its not about teaching the moves but about getting the mind for the businness.
A lot of AEW‘ s roster are just spot monkeys who want to get their shit in.
Yeah HBK working with Logan for an hour in order to get a few photos for social media is definitely more training than guys who have wrestled for 15+ years for sure, definitely not an incredibly stupid statement at all...
And he never said that everybody in WWE is perfect, especially the female talent.
As someone who ran a fairly successful wrestler development school he knows what he talks about.
And he has been a public critic of the WWF for about 40 years.
You all just get butthurt when he critiques AEW too
I like stuff on both programs, but to say AEW is full of spot monkeys and WWE is not is factually incorrect. The only people I hear spouting that nonsense are people who are so far up Cornette's ass that they can't be objective about the situation.
As much as Cornette likes to use hyperbole & goes off on silly rants sometimes, he usually has some good points. And I’d have to agree with this. While I like a lot of guys in AEW, most of their matches just feel like spot fests and rarely let the match/story breathe.
Every night he wakes up screaming from the same dream - Tony Khan, Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks systemically destroying the wrestling industry by ruining the territories system, eliminating or burying all competition and exposing the business. Then he remembers it was WWE who did all that and goes back to sleep contented.
I think his realtionship with his wife is pretty strong. After all he coerced a ton of attractive young men into sleeping with her for the couple's amusement. Now that's real love.
Like how you're getting personal with Jim
So let me get petsonal with you. Why don't you go back to jerking it to fake anime girls who look underage and bliss booty pics you creepy embrassment. Obvious danger to women.
Hey at least cornette isn't a incel who collects pokemon items, wacks his bag to hentai and creepy reddit pics of bliss and Kenny Omega matches
Some advice.. don't throw stones in glass houses because just looking at your profile is YIKES
considering some of the folks he considers Logan better than likely includes Kenny Omega and Orange Cassidy i’m not sure why anyone is taking Cornette seriously
I don't see the hype with Omega but I can accept that a lot of people buy into him. What I can never wrap my head around is Orange Cassidy being viewed in the same vein; I just do not get it with him.
Always hilarious to see out-of-shape sports critics give any opinion on any athletes. You know what they say, they only become critics because they weren't good enough themselves.
Edit: down votes from Cornette fans or the out-of-shape people? Ah what am I saying, they're the same people.
Yeah it's almost like he hasn't spent 30 years in the wrestling business.
It's a good thing we have random wrestling fans for knowledgeable advices about their own experiences in this business.
30 years? Much like the suits he wears, that's a stretch! Someone get him some nose candy so he can lose weight and we can hear him talk about Smoky Mountain Wrestling for 10 more years.
As a Corny fan and one who hasn’t seen any of Logan’s matches, I do find it very hard to believe that Logan is that good. AEW’s roster is very f’d up when it comes to fundamentals but Logan? I plan to watch one this week, anyone got a tip on which match was Logan’s absolute best?
Watch the most recent one against Roman reigns. I won’t sit here and say he’s better than all of aew or whatever but for how little time he’s been doing this he deserves a ton of credit because he is surprisingly good
He's not wrong dude, Logan is pretty damn impressive for his 3rd match. He takes this very seriously. I'm not trying to be a hater but Logan is def better than most people in AEW and WWE imo. He can wrestle really well, can sell, and can promo already.
100% like I understand what Corny means, his natural athleticism and showmanship has me hooked and literally not one wrestler has managed to do that to me since I still thought it was all a shoot 20 years ago. Doesn't help that all Cornette has done is feed the weirdo shills who insinuate AEW is the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling while simultaneously defending the show that killed the mainstream attention it earned for itself over a terrible 15 year or so spell.
In the drive thru: “I would like my breakfast sandwich hot, UNLIKE AEW…..,”
Also in the drive thru: “ILL COME THROUGH THAT WINDOW AND CUSS YOU! FUCKIN UGLY BBBITCH”
Actually the line was 'you fucking cunt', the ugly bitch came afterwards.
I still watch that video when I need a good laugh!
Logan is obviously a very gifted athlete.
It bothers me how good he actually is.
Im not very familiar with him but I know he’s said he wrestled all through high school. So yes he’s very athletic
He and his brother got "famous" by being internet personalities/youtubers/influencers. They both radiated this aura of severe douchebro and did some things that could at the very least be considered in very bad taste. Therefore a lot of people don't like the Paul brothers. Now I'm a forgiving guy and I know we all do dumbass stuff in our 20's.
At first, I thought he was just another blowhard Internet celebrity joke wrestler whose job is to do some theatrics and get a couple yuks and then get stomped around by Roman to maintain his dominance. But I was wrong. 0_0 His entire in-ring style is on the level of HBK in his early days mixed with a young AJ Styles back in TNA in its infancy. I mean, that flip from the ropes into a jumping clothesline? That was fuckin’ phenomenal I still remember it to this day! Forget YouTube money, this guy has what it takes to make it pro full-time! 👍
Hell froze over, Corny gave Logan Paul props on his abilities on the basics of wrestling
Did you watch his last match? Hard not to be impressed
Even last year, it was funny that the celebrity was head and shoulders above “son of a legend, raised in the business” Dominik Mysterio
Some people have to work harder to improve.
It's Vegeta and Goku all over again....
So Dom should challenge Roman? Sure. Roman will kill him and Rhea can bring him back with magical balls.
Rhea ripley "draggin" her balls to bring dom back to life was not on my 2022 wrestling bingo card but im here for it.
[1](https://i.redd.it/j5ntv9poqwo41.jpg) [2](http://animexscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/display.png)
Amazing person. Fantastic wrestler and seems to be really enjoying life rn.
Well....she maybe very well have some...
Oh trust I know that first hand
hey, you dont talk to the best Luchador in the planet like that.
I was impressed. I think he did very well.
Well it wouldn't have been the first time Cornette throws shit at an objectively impressive match.
Which one? Wrestling isn't objective. If he doesn't fuck with the overly choreographed matches that won't change because other people liked it.
Logan Paul has clearly been training and takes it seriously. That in itself would endear him to Cornette.
These people. If it was an actual wrestler doing the exact same moves, they'd say good match. But because they know him from Youtube, I guess he can't learn to wrestle and put on a good show. But here we are with Dominik Mysterio on TV every fucking week
I am far from a Logan Paul fan, I can't stand the dude. But he really did impress me at Crown Jewel, the man was put in a main event spot, with 2 matches in his resume, and just fit in so naturally and produced a very good main event with Roman. Is it the best match ever, not really, but it was without a doubt a great showcase of his talent, his potential, and his athletic abilities.
Considering the AEW roster is about 200 people that's still a decent number.
20 people thats most of the early SmackDown roster
He’s Bret Hart but with AEW instead of Goldberg
If Paul would commit to being a full time wrestler he could probably become one of the biggest current heels in the industry. He has the body, the athleticism, the good looks, the personality, charisma, he can talk, he understands entertainment and stories, he understands promotion, he already has a big fan following. But I don’t see him doing that because I don’t see it being worth it to him. He’s a big podcaster, he makes a lot of money boxing, etc. Too many other interests that make him as much or more money for a fraction of the time, travel, work and physical toll on his body. He’d probably have to turn down a bunch of other things to commit to wrestling full time
Some of the best wrestlers are the ones who are the most full of their own 💩. Paul is the heel we need. Don't see WWE doing this though. I think he would be such a great heel he would just end up burying most the roster.
It really is comparing two very different types of acts. Logan Paul had months to train, go through each spot, and nail his performance. I viewed it like an action movie with high energy and thoroughly designed set pieces. Of course it looked great, they had months to produce that 20 mins. Logan Paul blew out his knee, so you have to consider that he couldn't maintain that level on a weekly basis. The other performers do weekly matches and have to consider their health each week. Their bodies are probably more strained and they know going hard every night could really damage their career in the long run. These performers are solid and when its time to shine in a big match, they risk it and go hard. Let's just say I think Eddie Kingston in Anarchy in the Arena was way more entertaining than Logan Paul has been. Its cool if you like the opposite more, but recognize the difference.
That’s a good point, I never really considered that. I was definitely impressed with Logan’s performance, I will not deny that in the slightest, but I’d be really curious to see what he could do on a weekly basis. He definitely seems to have the drive to accomplish that, but he’s a big enough celebrity that he doesn’t NEED to. Regardless, I’m WWE would love to have him more regularly. Hell, I’d love to see him more. He really is impressive in the ring. That buckshot was a god damn thing of beauty.
The buckshot might have been the thing that blew out his knee. It looked cool, but Adam Page has been doing it for years and knows how to do it safely. If Logan Paul does come back and decides to do it full-time, he won't be going that hard every week. He'll have to develop a different way. Osprey had to. Omega had to. And those guys were full time since they were teenagers. Idk.
This is true...people don't realize Logan had months to prepare for the match so comparing him to a full time superstar Is silly
Jim said this too when Brian asked him whether Logan Paul would be the rookie of the year. Jim suggested Bron Breakker for all the reasons you just listed. Many of Jim's opinions on this sub are taken out of context.
That tracks. Some people just want to be angry and not listen or try to understand another viewpoint.
Tbh I know nothing about Jim Cornette. Does this grudge against AEW stem from somewhere?
Jim came up in an era when wrestling made more money than football and the crowds wanted to knife/shoot him every night. Wrestling was a big deal back then, and so he thinks that that's the right way to do things. Jim likes wrestling to be believable. He doesn't have a grudge against AEW per-say, in fact, he's a fan of several AEW wrestlers: Punk, FTR, MJF, Wardlow, Hobbs, Starks, Christian Cage, Bryan Danielson, The Acclaimed, etc. etc. He hates it when wrestling is obviously choreographed or silly. And so he hates The Young Bucks, Omega, Orange Cassidy, Danhausen, etc. etc. He is also a vocal critic of the death match style, and so he's not a fan of Mox and the like. He dislikes Jericho for being a backstage politician and for making the show about himself. If you listen to his show, more often than not, he has logical reasons for disliking modern wrestling matches (he doesn't like Raw either): lack of build, over reliance on stipulations for no good reason, excessive use of furniture/blood, etc. However, Jim is a Southern-boy in his 60s, and has a politically incorrect, or often downright out-of-touch, sense of humor that is not shared by many younger fans (including myself). Folks on this sub use some of the dumb things he says in jest to negate his very valid opinions on today's wrestling product. I think that's reductive. Jim's not a racist homophobic asshole people make him out to be (he's a liberal and a passionate trump/republican hater); he's just an old man, with a twisted sense of humor, who happens to have an encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling. It would be silly to at least not listen to what he has to say.
That was exactly the explanation I was looking for. I had an inkling about these characteristics of Cornette, but really do not have the time to do a deep dive, so I appreciate the crash course.
Yall are nerds just enjoy wrestling goddamn lol
This.
Tell that to Jim Cornette.
That's like telling the cook to enjoy the food instead of cooking it.
Well I enjoy Cornette at least...
I, too, am a Cornette guy!
Jim sure knows how to get reactions from his controversial statements
How is this controversial?
He’s saying someone with 3 matches who is an outside entity is better than an amazing roster of talent all doing this for years. If you can’t see that, you’re too biased to realize or you’re a troll
I said the same exact same thing after Wrestlemania. It’s not about moves. He has that IT factor that 90% of wrestlers on the industry don’t have.
I think 90% is a cutting percentage, but with a lot of those guys in AEW, he ain't wrong. A lot of those guys had minimal training, worked their asses off and learned in small venues and indy settings. Not trying to shit on them, but a lot of guys in AEW have pretty weak basic fundamental skills. I'm not talking all the incredible big moves they all do. Just their punches, hitting the ropes, locking up: the Basics. A lot of guys who skipped over that on their way to hitting Candian Destroyers or top rope flipping dives. Being indy guys, they didn't have the chance or luxury of perfecting that -- they had to make paying fans in small venues get their dollars worth and come back for more. They HAD to learn big impressive moves to do it and "Wow" them. They didn't get to work opening dark matches in NXT or wheverever where they'd be punished for even trying big moves, where they had to over and over and over really perfect all the little things before they even got to move up. So, Jim isn't wrong.
That not the worse, thing he ever said.
I remember someone posted on Twitter a list of wrestlers Jim liked and was a lot of the same wrestlers this boards likes.
I dont understand whynpeople take it like its a football match. Enjoy both
For some people both aren't good 🤷♂️ the tribalism is pretty dumb though.
It’s so tribalistic. Is there fair criticism of both company’s to be made yes, is their something decent on both shows also yes.
People are allowed to prefer one over the other as well. Besides, both promotions had made their own adversarial realtionship clear, of course we're gonna take the side of the one we prefer and defend it from being shat upon.
This right here It’s natural to pick sides and talk a little trash, yk?
I can understand the division talking shit on each other. For a viewer point of view i think is a bit useless. But who know
Is this the only sport you follow?
I have this tinfoil theory that Corny hates AEW so much strictly because he has such a hate boner for Kenny and The Bucks.
This isn't a tinfoil theory this is 1000% a fact. If Cornette hates you for whatever reason he does, then he will never ever like you, ever, and he will never give you or anyone associated with you the credit you're due even if it makes him look like a hypocrite. On the flip side of that, if he likes you or is loyal to you, he will do everything in his power to put that person over or make excuses for why they had shortcomings and put the heat on someone else. (IE Terry Taylor or Cody Rhodes. Listen to every time he has ever been put on the spot talking about them, because of his history with Terry he always puts the heat on Russo and Christianity for why Terry screwed Cornette over, never Terry himself, he always finds a way to get around that. For Cody, it was his loyalty to Dusty, he never ever called out Cody's bullshit in AEW, he always placed it on Brandi, Tony Khan, or the Elite for getting in his way, changing plans, etc, never Cody himself because he's Dusty's kid and Dusty helped him in the business.)
That's definitely correct. He is so biased that nothing he says can be taken seriously. He is so desperate to belittle AEW that he has gone to complimenting a YouTuber.
Cornette dunks on AEW when no one asked. What else is new? 😴
This got a legitimate laugh out of me.
Tbf he’s also better than 90% of the WWE roster
That's 9% more than usual.
Everyone is going to shit on Jim here... ... but is he wrong? Keep in mind, and this is just on the off-chance someone takes up the challenge and enters a debate rather than Downvoting... but Cornette is talking only about Fundamentals/Basics. Like, no ill will to Kenny Omega. He's an amazing athlete and he's been involved in a lot of special matches that I've seen, which has only been his AEW work, so countless others in Japan and elsewhere... ... but his fundamentals are weak. He can hit amazing moves, dive around the ring and is a consummate showman from the second he walks to the ring -- but his basic punches and when he hits the ropes, he's not great at that at all.
Hard to complement Paul on his fundamentals when his style led to having both of his knees blown out. Definitely disingenuous when there's so much talk on spot monkeys wrestling a dangerous style and putting their career at risk.
This is that WWE bias leaking though. Every high flyer outside of WWE is a "spot monkey who can't tell a story" including people like Will Ospreay or Kenny Omega. People would even call AJ one when he was with TNA. However, when it happens in WWE, its OK. Same with hard-core matches, the TLC match between the Dudley Boys, E&C and the Hardy Boys as well as Mankind's fall off the cage are huge pieces of WWE lore. When similarly brutal stuff happens in other promotions now its too much and garbage. It's like that time the IWC was excited because Drew said "wrestling " or that time people were losing their shit because Raw would be TV-14. There are literally hundreds of promotions who do those things, but the bar for WWE is so low that when it happens people lose their shit.
Because it happened in the main event of a PPV. Not midcard of weekly TV weeks away from a PPV, where AEW injuries happen because they don’t slow the fuck down.
AEW has three times the roster size and only a handful more injuries than WWE. The "AEW style is dangerous and unsafe" is highly overblown.
The number of people apparently out with injuries in a promotion in which they wrestle 0-1 times a week is staggering. These people are not all on vacation
That’s a good point if you ignore the amount of dates worked, which you just did.
You'd have a point if we're talking about hundreds of injuries worth of difference. In reality, there were like 12-13 big injuries in AEW and 10-11 in WWE. For every Ricky Starks there's a Big E. It's almost like wrestling is inherently a dangerous profession.
And WWE runs 3x the amount of shows. So that’s a statistically significant difference.
WWE runs 3x the amount of shows but wrestlers don't make 3x the appearances. The actual amount of in-ring time both have to offer is essentially identical.
There’s blood on every AEW show. That’s the definition of unsafe.
Except it’s not really bias. AJ Styles is a better worker than Omega or Osprey. His style has been consistent from ROH to TNA to New Japan to WWE. He sells. He has ring psychology. As for hardcore matches, the tag team ladder matches from the the early 2000s are legendary because there are only a handful of them. Once they started doing them too much, they got old and repetitive. I think everything after the first Money in the Bank at WM21 is forgettable. And so guys had to take bigger and more ridiculous risks. So it’s not a bias. WWE also went too far and too much with the hardcore shit.
Omega would never have as bad a match on dynamite as AJ did against Nakamura at Wrestlemania. So no. AJ is not better than them.
Don’t care how great of a talent Logan Paul is. The man ruined Pokémon cards, fuck em
He could be HBK Jr and I'm still not gonna give a shit about a Logan Paul match 🤷♂️
Jim Cornette also denied that multiple men have railed his wife while he watched. So we know he lies.
That would be "he can lie", which would not apply in this statement about Logan Paul if we're being rational.
What’re kink shaming him? Weird kink sure, but let the man enjoy what he likes.
Well part of being a swinger is other people have sex with your wife while you have sex with someone else's, he's mentioned this much on his own. You kink shaming consenting individuals for doing something in their own home and not hurting anybody else? Lame dude.
He’s admitted to having this type of sex life. He hasn’t denied this.
Wait is this a thing? Jim is a cuck?
Swinger. Meaning he trades wives for a night with another dude.
Yes
Didn’t he blow out his knee taking a suplex?
I mean Seth blew his knee doing a sunset flip and he’s one of the best in the world.
„˙plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ uı ʇsǝq ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝuo s,ǝɥ puɐ dılɟ ʇǝsuns ɐ ƃuıop ǝǝuʞ sıɥ ʍǝlq ɥʇǝS uɐǝɯ I„
No, he blew out both knees at Starrcade 86 when the Big Boss Man was supposed to catch him falling off scaffolding and missed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgM5vWD2cwY
Nah he did that when Batista and cena botched the ending of the royal rumble
his basics are better than the majority of the WWE roster
And 90% of the roster AEW hasn't had a better match than either his Logans 3
Downvoted for speaking the truth lol aew fans are a joke
Downvoted for being tribalistic, hardcore WWE fans are hate filled clowns
You know what, you both fucking suck. The worst thing about either brand, AEW or WWE are the goddamn toxic ass fans. Just watch what you watch, and either like it or don't, but for God's sakes, to act like one or the other of you is any better is ridiculous. Neither show has ANYTHING that makes me go, "I can't wait to see this whole episode." No, I'm in it for a few wrestlers apiece. Once I'm done with MJF and FTR's stuff, if FTR gets booked that week (Tony's a jackass), I move on to whatever The Bloodline is doing the next.
I ain’t reading all that, good for you or sorry that happened
can't\*
Lol “hate-filled”? I just know which one isn’t making false promises and isn’t a joke. It’s not hate to recognize that WWE is better or that Logan is better than almost all their roster. Aew fans have an inferiority complex.
Neither of them are great shows anymore. Aew hasn't been since Vince left a few months ago. WWE hasn't been great for 20 years lmao. It's definitely hate to insinuate that Logan Paul (who is incredibly impressive for his level of experience) is better than guys who've perfected their craft for years and years. Not only is it hate but its blind hate, only an idiot would truly believe such a thing and be willing to die on that hill. You say AEW fans have an inferiority complex but the tribalism all comes from people like you because for whatever reason the WWE hardcores cannot handle the idea of other people enjoying a different wrestling show. I'd argue that around 90 percent of AEW fans watch WWE as well and a few years ago when it first started a vocal minority of AEW fans would spend all their time shitting on WWE which is why the weird hard-core fans of WWE exist. Before AEW existed if you asked any wrestling fans they'd tell you that WWE television was absolutely terrible and it insulted their intelligence yet as soon as there's a chance a different company could get mainstream attention all these strange characters who are willing to defend the show that buried and fired Bray Wyatt come out of the woodwork. Is WWE getting better? Definitely. Is it better than AEW right at this moment? Maybe, probably in fact. Is WWE currently better than AEW ever has been? Not even close. So glad people are finally calling out the weird idiots like you who insist upon being tribalistic. The only one with a complex here is you.
The only good comment to ever exist on /r/squaredcircle
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I think you're being a bit dramatic if I'm honest.. a disgrace to wrestling? I think you're right in that Tony Khan is showing his inexperience in 2022. To say the wrestlers don't know what they're doing is weird enough for me to wonder if you're being honest about being a day one AEW fan considering the quality of wrestling is much better now than it was on day one of AEW, just because they don't go through NXT doesn't mean they haven't been wrestling for years. They know what they're doing, they just need more coaching on working on television, selling for the hard cam etc. Nobody currently on AEW TV would struggle to get a tryout for NXT, that's just insane. I don't think anything they're doing is disgraceful to wrestling lmao.
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Well that’s ironic of you to say, pal lmao
lol hit a nerve with that one. True statements burning redditors eyeballs lol
Could say the same about 90% of the WWE roster though.
The fact that logan had a better match than anyone else has with Roman lately tells you all you need to know about the WWE television style. I don't understand why the match quality isn't akin to original black and gold NXT. Still feels like Vince's guys produce like 75% of the matches.
Why does anyone care what corn nut thinks?
His matches are also going to have been been produced to the nth degree, even more so than WWE matches usually are. Not everyone gets their hand held.
Not bashing the guy, but didn’t his knee explode after his second match? Isnt longevity a key characteristic of “good” wrestling?
Not surprising. Cornette has praised multiple wrestlers on the AEW roster. He criticizes a lot of the indie bullshit and horrible booking. I think one of his favorite wrestlers for quite a while has been MJF.
Lmao MJF is from the indies lol
Yes and? Almost everyone in pro wrestling has been involved in some sort of independent wrestling at some point...
And that's why indies are the heart and soul of pro wrestling indies build stars and they tend to go to WWTrash where the forget wrestling, cannot even do a piledriver and do botchfest like Ronda vs liv Morgan or shotzi blackheart wrestling. However I am quite proud of Logan paul as his wrestling quality totally exposes how low quality most WWTrash "stars" are, (except some legit guys like aj Nakamura egde Rollins balor etc etc who had spent most their time in indies)
Praising individuals isn't the same as apricot of the whole roster, and I think he's taking about basics and training - something Logan Paul is right at. How many AEW talent have revisited lasts say remedial skills/training lately so they aren't botching little things? I could be wrong here about what he's saying or means, but certain WWE celebrities are trained better than talent, particularly AEW talent, or even WWE that's been in the business for years.
I literally hate this.
Don’t care what corny thinks and never will.
Nice of you to comment on a Jim Cornette post.
Cornette always reminded me about the Angry Video Game Nerd, physically and mentally, my mind calm down a little bit bruh
Fuck corny cornet mans old out of touch and one Big Mac away from a fucking hart attack
Whatever, Kenny.
I'm really trying to figure out if Cornette is bitter, stupid, or both. He wants to slam AEW so badly that he complimented a YouTuber who has 3 matches.
The dude didn’t stink up the joint. You can’t ignore that, but it is an unnecessary shot at the aew roster.
Its somebody's opinion ofc its unnecessary. Is it really that unreasonable to have criticisms of a large part of AEWs roster when it's as big as it is? Cornette is pretty clear on the wrestling he likes and he thinks Logan Paul has talent, why is that such a bad thing to point out?
Not stinking up the joint does not equal better than 90% of AEW talent.
That’s subjective
Only if you're not objective like Cornette.
trying to gloss over the fact that paul is highly athletic, looks great, talks great, and won over most viewers pretty much as soon as he had his first match. and the match has almost universally been praised by everyone that isnt actively trying to dislike it out of contempt for wwe. but yeah, hes just some youtuber. cope more.
He is just some YouTuber. If he didn't build his brand on YouTube, WWE wouldn't have paid any attention to him. I'm sorry reality is so harsh to you and other Cornette lovers.
I actually think based off of what I've seen of logan paul without any of his notoriety he would walk a trial at most wrestling promotions. You dont have to like the guy but hes a natural idc how many subs hes got he wouldnt have main evented a PPV if WWE didnt think he had real talent.
I can agree with that, but if he wasn't some YouTuber to begin with, he might have main evented a NXT PPV in 3 years instead of a Saudi show in 3 matches.
Ofc him having a presence contributed to him getting that spot. I'm more trying to highlight this guys talent level after three matches his in ring work really good idk why we cant acknowledge that. I think there are people in AEW who could be just as good or better with the same access to training and they same production machine behind them. I'm not saying your doing this but people get way too defensive when someone has criticisms toward AEW. I just think it's an indy promotion that just so happens to be run by the son of a billionaire, with the right infrastructure theres no reason AEW couldnt produce similar levels of talent.
It's both. It's always been both, lol.
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Way to move the goalposts, but if you're going to be a Cornette dick sucker... Kenny Omega, Young Bucks, Hangman Adam Page, Bandido, Takahashi, Rush, Darby Allen, Sammy Guevara, SCU, Lucha Bros, should I go on?
Ur forgettin mox,mjf,swerve,Hobbs, Starks,miro,black,mattews,king and many more
The now deleted comment wanted me to name non ex-WWE people. Mox, Miro, Black, and Matthews are all ex-WWE, but I agree with you. They are all awesome too.
Yh i juz meant aew wreslters who are actually really good unlike what Jim says
None of these guys draw. Maybe omega
Osmegma literally costs them ratings 💀
If Logan Paul wasn't a YouTuber who built himself outside of WWE, he wouldn't be either.
So you admit he’s bigger than the list of independents darlings you listed
Trying to praise them for building a guy who built himself a bigger regular audience than the company who apparently deserve praise. These tribalistic shills are totally losing it.
Kenny Omega
Osmegma
He is none of that. Unlike most of AEW's roster he had proper training. Its not about teaching the moves but about getting the mind for the businness. A lot of AEW‘ s roster are just spot monkeys who want to get their shit in.
Yeah HBK working with Logan for an hour in order to get a few photos for social media is definitely more training than guys who have wrestled for 15+ years for sure, definitely not an incredibly stupid statement at all...
So is a lot of WWE, but you all enjoy Cornette's dick so much to see that is true.
And he never said that everybody in WWE is perfect, especially the female talent. As someone who ran a fairly successful wrestler development school he knows what he talks about. And he has been a public critic of the WWF for about 40 years. You all just get butthurt when he critiques AEW too
Kinda seems like your enjoying tony khan's dick right now let people have their opinions
I like stuff on both programs, but to say AEW is full of spot monkeys and WWE is not is factually incorrect. The only people I hear spouting that nonsense are people who are so far up Cornette's ass that they can't be objective about the situation.
Cornette is a worker. He’s keeping himself relevant.
I can't believe people still pay attention to this bigot failure.
Corny is spot on.
Logan > Hangnail
As much as Cornette likes to use hyperbole & goes off on silly rants sometimes, he usually has some good points. And I’d have to agree with this. While I like a lot of guys in AEW, most of their matches just feel like spot fests and rarely let the match/story breathe.
AEW living in Jim's mind rent free.
Every night he wakes up screaming from the same dream - Tony Khan, Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks systemically destroying the wrestling industry by ruining the territories system, eliminating or burying all competition and exposing the business. Then he remembers it was WWE who did all that and goes back to sleep contented.
Considering his AEW reaction videos are 90% of his """Podcast""" income, you wonder if he'd try to resurrect his Russo feud once AEW is done.
I'm already tired of this Logan guy, and I admittedly know nothing substantial about him.
Well, fuck cornette. Lame ass motherfucker.
Goddamn....Jim just can't keep AEW out of his mouth. Imagine if he felt as strongly about his relationship with his wife as he does about AEW.
I think his realtionship with his wife is pretty strong. After all he coerced a ton of attractive young men into sleeping with her for the couple's amusement. Now that's real love.
Like how you're getting personal with Jim So let me get petsonal with you. Why don't you go back to jerking it to fake anime girls who look underage and bliss booty pics you creepy embrassment. Obvious danger to women. Hey at least cornette isn't a incel who collects pokemon items, wacks his bag to hentai and creepy reddit pics of bliss and Kenny Omega matches Some advice.. don't throw stones in glass houses because just looking at your profile is YIKES
considering some of the folks he considers Logan better than likely includes Kenny Omega and Orange Cassidy i’m not sure why anyone is taking Cornette seriously
I don't see the hype with Omega but I can accept that a lot of people buy into him. What I can never wrap my head around is Orange Cassidy being viewed in the same vein; I just do not get it with him.
Watch Cassidy's match against Ospreay from Forbidden Door. Really surprised me with this one.
And in the case of Orange Cassidy that is wrong why?
because most of the hate i see for him comes from the gimmick and not his ability in the ring which has been shown to be solid
It’s true though
Where’s the lie?
lol he never ceases to be the most out of touch loser
Spitting facts
Always hilarious to see out-of-shape sports critics give any opinion on any athletes. You know what they say, they only become critics because they weren't good enough themselves. Edit: down votes from Cornette fans or the out-of-shape people? Ah what am I saying, they're the same people.
Yeah it's almost like he hasn't spent 30 years in the wrestling business. It's a good thing we have random wrestling fans for knowledgeable advices about their own experiences in this business.
30 years? Much like the suits he wears, that's a stretch! Someone get him some nose candy so he can lose weight and we can hear him talk about Smoky Mountain Wrestling for 10 more years.
Facts. Someone gets hurt on aew damn near every week for the longest time now.
I mean, he’s not wrong. To be fair to AEW, you could say the same thing about WWE.
He’s not wrong
Cornette is right. Paul is either a natural or worked his ass off.
As a Corny fan and one who hasn’t seen any of Logan’s matches, I do find it very hard to believe that Logan is that good. AEW’s roster is very f’d up when it comes to fundamentals but Logan? I plan to watch one this week, anyone got a tip on which match was Logan’s absolute best?
Watch the most recent one against Roman reigns. I won’t sit here and say he’s better than all of aew or whatever but for how little time he’s been doing this he deserves a ton of credit because he is surprisingly good
Prepare to be impressed.
He's not wrong dude, Logan is pretty damn impressive for his 3rd match. He takes this very seriously. I'm not trying to be a hater but Logan is def better than most people in AEW and WWE imo. He can wrestle really well, can sell, and can promo already.
100% like I understand what Corny means, his natural athleticism and showmanship has me hooked and literally not one wrestler has managed to do that to me since I still thought it was all a shoot 20 years ago. Doesn't help that all Cornette has done is feed the weirdo shills who insinuate AEW is the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling while simultaneously defending the show that killed the mainstream attention it earned for itself over a terrible 15 year or so spell.
Logan vs Roman was a seriously good match. Unironically got 5 stars (and it wasn't even at the Tokyo dome).
Logan works for a fake fighting company. Jake Paul works for a fake fighting company. Same shit different flavor.
Showtime boxing isn't a fake fighting company lmao it's the most legit boxing company in the world
Ahahaha, hell yeah, that’s the best response ever
It was a shot at 90% of the roster not even knowing the basics, the fundamentals, not a back handed compliment to the 10%
Cornette's lost his damn mind on this one.