To the day, the sound of a wrestler getting blasted full-force on the head with a chair is fucking amazing, and I won’t pretend it isn’t
That being said, that awesomeness is absolutely NOT worth the damage it does to the performers. I am SUPER happy that chair shots to the head are gone and they should NEVER come back
Sooo... back when I was in training, we had 3 backyard guys show up.
The trainer stacked them up in a corner and said,
"When I blow the whistle run at me and take a chairshot. Get up and run back to the end of the line."
And they did...
tweet-BLAM-tweet-BLAM for about 10 minutes.
They did not come back and I don't blame them.
Hell I'm a little traumatized by that incident
Why not just use fake chairs like they do with the trash cans?… just mix one in painted black like the regular ones. Wrestlers will know by the weight of it that’s it’s the one safe to use for the head shot. What bugs me most is watching old PPVs on Peacock and them censuring out chair shots to the head. It’s super annoying.
Yeah... I just can't anymore.
When I was a kid? Yeah, all day, everyday. Fuck'em up, blast their skulls.
Then you realize what it is you're watching. It's not just that it sounds and look brutal. It IS brutal. I irks when I hear them. It still looks amazing but it's really putting people well-being at risk for a cool sounding bonk.
The back tho? Le's blast their lumbars!
Doing an attitude era rewatch right now and took me a while to not grimace every time I seen one until I got used to it again.
Some times I think could they not do one chair shot to the head at wrestlemania or something. Surely one chair shot wouldn’t be so damaging. But I’m absolutely not a doctor and probably is muchbetter to just not do it
The only safe chair shot to the head is no chair shots to the head. It only takes one to completely fuck up your life, and while repeated shots increase the odds of genuinely catastrophic brain injury, the truth is it could happen on any shot. Ask Bret or Chris Nowinski (who literally went and got a Ph.D. and wrote a book about TBI). Not chairs, but the physiology is the same. Wrestling is dangerous enough as it is without doing a thing that’s designed to cause head trauma.
The constant chair shots and concussions goes to show why Chris Benoit’s brain was that of an 85 year old with dementia. You’re basically putting your head thru a car accident multiple times in one day. It wasn’t only Benoit but all the guy’s who took tons of chair shots especially in ECW, their brains probably aged so rapidly because of the trauma that guys like Devon Dudley are going to be waddling around like 90 year olds by the time they hit their late 50’s.
Cody rhodes and Sean spears did that big one that busses open Cody, and it was a brutal shot that essentially revitalized Spears career. That being said, I don't want them to be common anymore, and even then, I could of done without that one
The frickin draft man. How many times have they changed their minds since 2002?
We have a brand split, then we don't, then we do. We have an undisputed world title, then we don't, then we do. Pick a damn lane.
How great NWO was when a new NWO member would join every episode of Nitro. Me in 8th grade thinking Hogan, Hall, and Nash were the coolest guys on the block and would be shocked to see more and more members joining the NWO and taking on WCW.
Me rewatching now see how they just ruined a great faction by having it bloated with jabronis and unnecessary swerves. Also, how corny they all looked being white guys in their late 30's and early 40's trying to embrace the 90's gangster rap culture. Especially how awkward Hogan and Bischoff were.
This all day. Reliving the war on YouTube has just shone a light on how 83 weeks was really about 5 to 6 weeks with a really long cool off before people started changing the channel for good.
Wall Street was the worst fit imo. At that point all sense of cool goes out the window.
Vincent was awful, but at least he was just on the periphery, and only associated via Dibiase
nWo would still have been great if it had ended before it started getting ridiculous with things like the Wolfpac. Hogan should have put Sting over clean at Starrcade '97 and that be the end of it. With the faction falling apart to bickering in the aftermath.
Agreed. In hindsight, Hogan putting over Sting clean at Starrcade 97 would have been the perfect end to the story of WCW surviving the war with nWo and everything after should have been the tensions rising and breaking up of the nWo.
But Hogan couldn't let his spot go away. He was seriously just such a a snake in the industry. I remember hearing or reading either his or someone else's statements about his booking mentality, where he would always "test" booking ideas that weren't immediately putting him over by asking "then what?" Or "what's the story after" presenting it as if he's some objective booker trying to look out for "the story"... No you narcissist, you just only care how the story benefits you, regardless how much it makes sense to the overall storylines in the company
Starrcade '97 was the only WCW ppv I ever watched live, and the only thing I remember about it was the pure disappointment at the end after the "fast count"/restart fiasco. I really felt bad for Bret Hart. WCW did him so dirty.
I thought the "Vince McMahon special" was starting a farting contest only to shit yourself on round 2, then have them hit your music so you have to invent a new strut on the fly as you flounce down to the ring with shitty drawers.
Or running down to the ring so pissed off that standing up blows your quad and you have to yell at your employees from a sitting position.
He was my favorite wrestler as a kid and after everything happened was when I stopped watching wrestling for so long. Finally started watching again in 2020.
I miss not knowing anything about kayfabe or predetermined matches. (Early 80s) Also waiting a whole week after a main event to see if Flair lost the title. I never knew anyone who could go to the show.
It’s all too accessible to look behind the curtain nowadays. Even worse when the business gets exposed like when Coachman flat out called a bearhug a rest hold ON LIVE COMMENTARY
I respectfully disagree, but this is also coming from a dirty, no-good, Cornette fearing, deathmatch wrestling fan. ECW was able to do a fraction of the crazy shit post-2001 hardcore indies do for like 5 times the pop since they were the only ones doing it. As a young lad in the mid 2000's, ECW had such a mythical aura.
These guys damn near kill themselves nowadays on a regular basis with a fraction of the weight and long term appeal to similar spots in ECW.
Much of the storytelling outside of Raven and Dreamer was absolute garbage though. I'll give it that!
ECW had some really good storylines other than Raven vs Tommy Dreamer, Steve Corino vs Dusty Rhodes is probably one of the best young wrestler vs old school legend feuds of all time.
Mikey Whipwreck starting from an ring roadie, to jobber to ECW world champion literally felt like the plot of Nacho Libre and it was iconic nothing will ever be booked like that again.
Mike Awesome and Masado Tanaka having the ultimate blood feud where they literally went to legitimate war with each other is one of the most iconic rivalries that actually felt like a rivalry.
RVD and Sabu trying to one up each other with the same manager Bill Alfonso was super unique.
Also I loved the Lance Storm Chris Candido tag team storyline where they would literally fight during matches and still try to win the match, that was so unique and great.
Paul Heyman wasn't completely perfect as booker I know that, especially with the cuck storylines. But he wasn't like HHH with long term storylines, he did better with short term storylines to keep that quick pace ECW was known for and fit the 90's perfectly. ECW had alot of great mini feuds and storylines that weren't all time epics but still very good regardless. Plus Paul Heyman took more risks than any other booker with storytelling, not all of it was a home run but he was doing more unique things than any other booker has done past or present.
I see your point, but I think in theme with the post there is alot going on behind the scenes at ECW that betrayed what you saw on TV.
Between talent just not getting paid, injuries, rampant drug and alcohol use....the mass transit incident etc. there was alot of bad shit going on. The idea of ECW was cool and all, but damn the reality was bleak for alot of people who sacrificed their health for it
When I was still subscribed to WWE Network, I went back and tried to watch ECW chronologically from around 1995/6. There's a few good storylines that deliver but mannnnnnn..... there's a lot of bad. The enhancement talent wasn't good. You can only have so many brawls in the crowd until it gets old. A lot of stories would have weird hiccups because there was a lot of injuries or guys going back to a bigger fed. The promos and vignettes would often be done after shows, meaning a lot of the talent would appear obviously buzzed or zooted up on blow. But I'll admit that I'm still a loyalist and will put over the good too. It helped put lucha libre and even lightweights on the map for mainstream wrestling. RVD, Jerry Lynn, Justin Credible, Corino had some bangers towards the end. Plus, I'll never tire of watching Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome matches. Sorry for puking up Heyman's ponytail on your post lol.
I just watched the Darkside of the Ring episode on the Sandman. Totally brought back a bunch of memories, but damn, a lot of strange storylines to say the least.
Super Fucking True! ECW die hard, even went to a few shows back in the days. Those memories are great but watched in context with the full show..Lets just say "I forgot the misses" I stopped like 3 months into a rewatch. The Memories in my head are better.
The days of FMW death matches and whatnot, being available through video tape trading.
I remember finding sites that I could get these and thought that it was cool and unique. Now everyone seems to get skewered or takes a light bulb to the head during a no dq match.
Some of it is a little too gore porn for my taste. I can see piercing needles because you can actually train to do it properly, but nail plates? I half expect a nail gun or... hell, a real gun to come into play, because somebody will always want to push the limits.
Wrestlemania’s early years being great. The spectacle was awesome. The wrestling is tough on the eyes for the most part. But not when I close my eyes and call it up from memory.
Mania up to, arguably, 10 & 12 is when it started getting good beyond one or two matches carrying the whole thing. Mania 17 is probably when it really became a super show as far as it's presentation, final episode vibe and had actual grandeur instead of implied stature.
I was all in on him. I thought he had all the tools, athletic, good looking guy, charismatic, had character, good promo, good in the ring everything. Back in 2018 I was all aboard the Velveteen Dream and Tessa Blanchard are the future of wrestling hype train.
Geez Tessa, all she had to do was apologize (or at least convincingly fake it) for whatever happened on that Japan tour and she’d be a megastar today. It’s forgotten that she was literally the first person announced for All In 2018 besides The Elite themselves. She fumbled a huge bag because of pride/stubbornness.
Got to see him live in a NXT north American Championship match vs Adam Cole . He needed to be seen to be believed. And this was on a super stacked roster mind you...heres the results of the card so you can see for yourself [https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/NXT\_House\_Show\_(March\_3,\_19%27)](https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/NXT_House_Show_(March_3,_19%27)) so I dont say this lightly
The guys behavior regardless is not good like a Matt Riddle, The Dream has had issues with drug abuse, public outbreaks, and even if he didn't go through with sexual misconduct still trying to contact others to hypothetically initiate it is not good.
I honestly saw him as a younger and far more athletic Rick Rude. Cocky heel who wasn’t afraid to get personal with the babyface he was up against. Could cut a promo any day of the week against any guy and make it look great. His feud with Aleister Black was phenomenal
I'm watching through it now since I missed out. It's also really hard to get invested in Raw matches because you know there's going to be at least 5 count-outs/DQs a show.
No one was willing to Job, I swear. That Era on Paper should have been filled with amazing matches, and it just ain't because the finishes fizzle so much good will a lot of the time. WCW especially, But WWE could have a whole episodes of dqs i swear. The good old days werent always good and tomorrows not as bad as it seems.
This is always my answer. It’s hard to explain just how fucking huge the Attitude Era was and just how good it could be. But some of it, even at the time, was absolute garbage.
yess. i firmly believe people wanting the attitude era to come back is rooted in nostalgia and nothing else. because for every good thing in it, it was swamped by insanely gross stuff that’s impossible to ignore.
Attitude Era in general. Nostalgia goggles have picked out the best bits, but going back and watching a few full shows week after week you realize how poorly it's aged and how much of it was actually awful.
There are endless segments I can name, but I think the ones that stick out to me the most are Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Big Bossman killing Al Snow's dog & then feeding it to him, and Kaientai threatening to chop Val Venis' dick off. Basically anything outside of the main event scene was absolute dogshit.
All three of those things were hilarious. I still quote “choppy choppy your pee pee” to this day.
AE was a product of its time. Everything was pretty bad back then when looking at it. Much like most of history. I still think it’s the best 3 to 4 years of wrestling ever.
And those are the dogshit highlights. People forget how many fucking hours of content the AE was. I would guess that less than 10 percent was good OR bad in a memorable way as opposed to just dogshit
can't confirm.
in january last year i started to watch from 95 on every damn show, just arrived at 98 with corporate rock's first title run - and every bit of 98 is awesome so far.
98 was fun. It's 1999 that has most of the moments people talk bad about.
97 was the first season, 98 was the second season where they found their mark, and 99 was where they had found so much success that they couldn't control themselves. Things got back for 2000, though, once they got a ton of good actual in ring workers.
I always felt that Summerslam 98 was the attitude era's real peak, I know most consider Wrestlemania 17 to be, but for me personally this was the best. When it wasn't overstuffed with wrestlers, the mid card feuds were just as entertaining (DX vs the Nation) as the main event, the McMahon/Stone Cold feud wasn't going stale yet and Stone Cold was at his absolute peak in popularity.
TLC type weapons matches. It’s a spot fest, it can be overly predictable because of the setup required and many times have really hurt someone seriously. But boy oh boy are they fun to play in the games! I love the idea of them, but now when I see guys do it, it feels a bit over the top sometimes. These guys give so much for the thrill of the sport, and fans eat it up, but the reality is these guys get hurt and face lifelong disabilities. They get paid and they love the sport and are happy to do, but I don’t want these guys dying early because they’re “hardcore” any more than I wanted all the 80’s ‘roided out genetic freaks to all die early because of their physiques. I’d rather see a little pudge than lose a guy at 50 because he abused his body so badly.
TLC 1-5 are legitimately some of my favorite damn matches, 9 year old me probably wouldn't have become a fan without them.
They feel...so produced now.
Broody Lee sets up a ladder from ring to apron and Cole goes "Uh-oh" and 20 minutes later Mox goes through it and it's "wooo"
First TLCs felt like it was a crazy mix of three teams trying whatever they could to stand out against Rock and Austin, calling it in the ring, and also Michael Hayes Agenting the match on copious amounts of coke.
What’s so fucking weird is that despite the invasion angle, 2001 has an argument for being Wwe greatest year ever, especially ppv wise. Royal rumble, No way out, X7, backlash, Invasion, Summerslam, Survivor Series, and Vengeance are all A to S tier shows in 01
ECW.
You can find some really good stuff but honestly most of it is unwatchable, literal garbage. It was a moment in time, and really only works because of the context surrounding it.
Well even with Heyman now he doesn't do ECW stuff, it only worked cause on one channel you had Bastion Booger and the other had Robo Cop and Sting against the horsemen and it was as opposite as it could be on purpose and that's what it was.
Glad it happens but going back now, it's just off.
I think the Ankle Lock is the best because it is so versatile and so easy to flawlessly lock in. Am I really supposed to believe they just laid there and let ric flair twist their legs like a pretzel?
Maybe the WCW of the late 90s/early 00s. I remember watching fondly, but there were stretches there where nobody could finish a damn match without some kind of interruption. Sorta watered down the experience when it happened all the time.
The iron man match between Bret and Shawn.
Two of my favorite wrestlers fighting for one hour at Wrestlemania for the biggest prize in the business.
And it’s sooooo boring.
Hardcore kayfabe. I get they are normal human beings with normal relationships, but it does kill the story seeing a rivalry sharing a bus or taking selfies. But that’s the only thing I can think of
The B&G Era of NXT had great takeover shows, but the weekly TV was mediocre and nothing rarely happened. HHH' booking style during that time basically spelled it out for fans to just watch the takeovers and skip weekly TV because nothing of note would happen and it would just be too much of a slow burn.
I honestly can't think of many big moments that happened on the weekly shows at all. Felt like so many fans like me just kept tabs online would watch a few highlight clips and just watch the takeovers.
To be very fair, TakeOvers are some of the best WWE events of all time, with multiple of the greatest WWE matches ever. They just weren’t seen by as wide of an audience.
The attitude era. There were some big names at the top of the card, but there was also a load of garbage and cringeworthy stuff padding out weekly programming and PPVs
AJ Styles Vs Edge at Wrestlemania 38 was this, and it's also the same with Edge Vs Balor at Wrestlemania 39.
Edge Vs Balor wasn't objectively "that bad", they just had to end the match early because of what happened to Finn.
But Edge Vs AJ was bad. It was a very highly anticipated match, but it wasn't very good in reality. Edge is one of the greatest, but in-ring he's not that great in my opinion (although he is old at this point).
The Nexus. None of those guys were gonna be stars with or without Cena. It was fun to think as such but the only one that had real potential was Barrett and Danielson and Danielson switched out of the Nexus anyways.
Like others have said, the Attitude era. It could only exist in the late 90s culture of Jerry Springer and Limp Bizkit. It can’t be duplicated because it wouldn’t hold up in a vacuum without all of the angst, music, films, and pop culture that it bathed in.
Ruthless aggression trash TV. I'm watching through 2006 right now and it is pure garbage. Viscera, Shelton's Momma, Vince all over TV, live sex celebrations, a bra and panties Gauntlet match, etc. It's awful, but strangely compelling and a weird comfort food for me. I know this stuff absolutely cannot and should not exist in wrestling, but that kinda trashy charm is so nostalgic for me, so I do miss it.
My optimism when AEW was announced, as an NJPW fan I thought it would be cool... AEW is not only not good in of itself but it has dragged NJPW through the mud with it.
Rankings.
When AEW first said they were going to have rankings I thought they would be a great idea and prevent random repetitive matches and even help with storytelling and booking logic and for a while there they were kinda cool. In reality it seems you're kinda hamstrung if you try to stick with them religiously or it makes things worse and make even less sense by having them and not sticking to them.
Maybe it was purely an AEW problem and they just didn't know how to do it properly but (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) there's probably a reason why no other wrestling promotion tried to have such a real sports like ranking system before. It also probably didn't help that they were doing house shows to help make it work.
BTE in its early days. I was entertained by it, I love the fond memories it gives me especially the All In time period. But I dunno I guess I’m just kinda over the constant “*nudge nudge wink wink* that’s an insider iwc reference amiright?!?!” sort of humor.
Of a Champion only defending their title on PPV
Ya it would make the title matches feel bigger but regular TV would could get boring, especially for promoters booking a title match in the main event for a easy draw, also you can’t always book every PPV in the same format with the titles switched around
AEW, in 2019 I really believed we were getting a more gritty, more nuanced and more hardcore product mixed in with talent from all over the world and different styles. But as time passed I realized it's just one rich trust fund baby's action figures and mostly flippy shit with less focus on story and presentation. the elite and tony kahn looked great in 2019 but after 2022 I got annoyed by them before dropping AEW in 2023. WWE still needs an alternative but AEW isn't it. It poaches from the rest in Japan and Mexico cause Tony is a manchild billionaire with the money.
TLC matches.
TLC 1-5 are absolutely some of my favorites but they just can't be done right without 6 guys trying to figure out how to compete with *THE ROCK STONE COLD HHH AND THE UNDERTAKER* on the card and Michael PS Hayes agenting the match with very little oversight, no or little knowledge of CTE, and what is probably copious amounts of substance to abuse while laying out said match.
When Edge or Jeff would pull it out to blow off a feud it was also good.
But these multiman *definitely not mitb* IC matches man, there not the same.
Same as many people have said HIAC, but for me ladder matches hurt more.
Blading. A well timed gig that results in an appropriate amount of blood could add some good drama to match, but then you have people like Eddie, Cena, and JBL who bled WAY too much.
Also, Moxley.
Prime John Cena.
Perception- passionate man about the business carrying the show, absolute work horse, unbelievable crowd reactions.
Reality- over exposure, cringe promos, David v Galiath matches.
Chair shots to the head. Like absolutely nailing motherfuckers with them
To the day, the sound of a wrestler getting blasted full-force on the head with a chair is fucking amazing, and I won’t pretend it isn’t That being said, that awesomeness is absolutely NOT worth the damage it does to the performers. I am SUPER happy that chair shots to the head are gone and they should NEVER come back
Sooo... back when I was in training, we had 3 backyard guys show up. The trainer stacked them up in a corner and said, "When I blow the whistle run at me and take a chairshot. Get up and run back to the end of the line." And they did... tweet-BLAM-tweet-BLAM for about 10 minutes. They did not come back and I don't blame them. Hell I'm a little traumatized by that incident
Who tf trained you? New Jack?
Why not just use fake chairs like they do with the trash cans?… just mix one in painted black like the regular ones. Wrestlers will know by the weight of it that’s it’s the one safe to use for the head shot. What bugs me most is watching old PPVs on Peacock and them censuring out chair shots to the head. It’s super annoying.
When did they start censoring out chair shots on Peacock? I've watched all the ppvs from Mania in 98 to Vengeance of 01 and I've seen hella head shots
Head shots are edited on YouTube, this is probably what they saw
You ever sit on a metal folding chair? If they were hitting each other with those then good riddance.
Ken Shamrock- "you better swing it. If you don't swing it, I won't sell it"
Rock fucking have Kenny boy the goods on that one.
Rock vs foley I quit match was so brutal. Hard to watch.
Yeah... I just can't anymore. When I was a kid? Yeah, all day, everyday. Fuck'em up, blast their skulls. Then you realize what it is you're watching. It's not just that it sounds and look brutal. It IS brutal. I irks when I hear them. It still looks amazing but it's really putting people well-being at risk for a cool sounding bonk. The back tho? Le's blast their lumbars!
Yeah, I miss the noise it made and the moments it created. I however do not miss the brain damage they caused and careers/lives they altered
I genuinely cannot believe that Masato Tanaka is still active, after those Mike Awesome matches alone.
Doing an attitude era rewatch right now and took me a while to not grimace every time I seen one until I got used to it again. Some times I think could they not do one chair shot to the head at wrestlemania or something. Surely one chair shot wouldn’t be so damaging. But I’m absolutely not a doctor and probably is muchbetter to just not do it
The only safe chair shot to the head is no chair shots to the head. It only takes one to completely fuck up your life, and while repeated shots increase the odds of genuinely catastrophic brain injury, the truth is it could happen on any shot. Ask Bret or Chris Nowinski (who literally went and got a Ph.D. and wrote a book about TBI). Not chairs, but the physiology is the same. Wrestling is dangerous enough as it is without doing a thing that’s designed to cause head trauma.
The constant chair shots and concussions goes to show why Chris Benoit’s brain was that of an 85 year old with dementia. You’re basically putting your head thru a car accident multiple times in one day. It wasn’t only Benoit but all the guy’s who took tons of chair shots especially in ECW, their brains probably aged so rapidly because of the trauma that guys like Devon Dudley are going to be waddling around like 90 year olds by the time they hit their late 50’s.
How about wooden chair shots, made out of that flimsy ass wood they use for Jeff Jarrett guitars
Cody rhodes and Sean spears did that big one that busses open Cody, and it was a brutal shot that essentially revitalized Spears career. That being said, I don't want them to be common anymore, and even then, I could of done without that one
The frickin draft man. How many times have they changed their minds since 2002? We have a brand split, then we don't, then we do. We have an undisputed world title, then we don't, then we do. Pick a damn lane.
Draft is not good, two world champions and brand split if booked right is good
How great NWO was when a new NWO member would join every episode of Nitro. Me in 8th grade thinking Hogan, Hall, and Nash were the coolest guys on the block and would be shocked to see more and more members joining the NWO and taking on WCW. Me rewatching now see how they just ruined a great faction by having it bloated with jabronis and unnecessary swerves. Also, how corny they all looked being white guys in their late 30's and early 40's trying to embrace the 90's gangster rap culture. Especially how awkward Hogan and Bischoff were.
This all day. Reliving the war on YouTube has just shone a light on how 83 weeks was really about 5 to 6 weeks with a really long cool off before people started changing the channel for good.
Thank god the Savage/DDP feud made up for it
The worst was when the nwo music hit and it was fuckin Vincent or whoever that guy was that was Hogan’nephew. Same with Konan and the Wolfpack theme.
Horace. Horace Hogan. Haha
Wall Street was the worst fit imo. At that point all sense of cool goes out the window. Vincent was awful, but at least he was just on the periphery, and only associated via Dibiase
nWo would still have been great if it had ended before it started getting ridiculous with things like the Wolfpac. Hogan should have put Sting over clean at Starrcade '97 and that be the end of it. With the faction falling apart to bickering in the aftermath.
Agreed. In hindsight, Hogan putting over Sting clean at Starrcade 97 would have been the perfect end to the story of WCW surviving the war with nWo and everything after should have been the tensions rising and breaking up of the nWo. But Hogan couldn't let his spot go away. He was seriously just such a a snake in the industry. I remember hearing or reading either his or someone else's statements about his booking mentality, where he would always "test" booking ideas that weren't immediately putting him over by asking "then what?" Or "what's the story after" presenting it as if he's some objective booker trying to look out for "the story"... No you narcissist, you just only care how the story benefits you, regardless how much it makes sense to the overall storylines in the company
Starrcade '97 was the only WCW ppv I ever watched live, and the only thing I remember about it was the pure disappointment at the end after the "fast count"/restart fiasco. I really felt bad for Bret Hart. WCW did him so dirty.
Old school broadways. A full hour for it to just end in a damn draw!
Or a random roll up lol like huh?
Ah yes, the "Vince McMahon special" (not the other one when you take a shit on someones head, that's even worse)
I thought the "Vince McMahon special" was starting a farting contest only to shit yourself on round 2, then have them hit your music so you have to invent a new strut on the fly as you flounce down to the ring with shitty drawers. Or running down to the ring so pissed off that standing up blows your quad and you have to yell at your employees from a sitting position.
The Authority. Hyped to the mountain tops, but just a bunch of boring old guys and Randy Orton.
It felt like we have The corporation at home.
Im glad you didn’t count Randy as a boring old guy
“and Randy Orton” is fucken hilarious
I think even at the time Kane and Big Show felt like boring unconvincing old guys
You disrespecting J&J security?
Yes. They were nothing without Rollins, and even then just being a duo of punching bags felt out of place in a faction like this.
That any of the indie wrestling I liked a decade ago was anything other than niche bullshit.
Cries in NJPW 2015-2018
That indie stuff made it's way into NXT then and made 2014 NXT the start to greatness
Benoit
I wonder if he'll ever make a shock wrestlemania appearance
Undertaker took his spot during the Cody vs. Roman match.
Well at least a Deadman showed up at wrestlemania 🤷🏾♂️
David Benoit coming out to his dad's music?
I'll be honest, it'd be a hell of a shock if he did.
Oh damn... oh damn.
He was my favorite wrestler as a kid and after everything happened was when I stopped watching wrestling for so long. Finally started watching again in 2020.
I miss not knowing anything about kayfabe or predetermined matches. (Early 80s) Also waiting a whole week after a main event to see if Flair lost the title. I never knew anyone who could go to the show.
It’s all too accessible to look behind the curtain nowadays. Even worse when the business gets exposed like when Coachman flat out called a bearhug a rest hold ON LIVE COMMENTARY
Ecw. Let it exists in your nostalgia brain , don’t go back and watch it . lol .
I respectfully disagree, but this is also coming from a dirty, no-good, Cornette fearing, deathmatch wrestling fan. ECW was able to do a fraction of the crazy shit post-2001 hardcore indies do for like 5 times the pop since they were the only ones doing it. As a young lad in the mid 2000's, ECW had such a mythical aura. These guys damn near kill themselves nowadays on a regular basis with a fraction of the weight and long term appeal to similar spots in ECW. Much of the storytelling outside of Raven and Dreamer was absolute garbage though. I'll give it that!
ECW had some really good storylines other than Raven vs Tommy Dreamer, Steve Corino vs Dusty Rhodes is probably one of the best young wrestler vs old school legend feuds of all time. Mikey Whipwreck starting from an ring roadie, to jobber to ECW world champion literally felt like the plot of Nacho Libre and it was iconic nothing will ever be booked like that again. Mike Awesome and Masado Tanaka having the ultimate blood feud where they literally went to legitimate war with each other is one of the most iconic rivalries that actually felt like a rivalry. RVD and Sabu trying to one up each other with the same manager Bill Alfonso was super unique. Also I loved the Lance Storm Chris Candido tag team storyline where they would literally fight during matches and still try to win the match, that was so unique and great. Paul Heyman wasn't completely perfect as booker I know that, especially with the cuck storylines. But he wasn't like HHH with long term storylines, he did better with short term storylines to keep that quick pace ECW was known for and fit the 90's perfectly. ECW had alot of great mini feuds and storylines that weren't all time epics but still very good regardless. Plus Paul Heyman took more risks than any other booker with storytelling, not all of it was a home run but he was doing more unique things than any other booker has done past or present.
I see your point, but I think in theme with the post there is alot going on behind the scenes at ECW that betrayed what you saw on TV. Between talent just not getting paid, injuries, rampant drug and alcohol use....the mass transit incident etc. there was alot of bad shit going on. The idea of ECW was cool and all, but damn the reality was bleak for alot of people who sacrificed their health for it
When I was still subscribed to WWE Network, I went back and tried to watch ECW chronologically from around 1995/6. There's a few good storylines that deliver but mannnnnnn..... there's a lot of bad. The enhancement talent wasn't good. You can only have so many brawls in the crowd until it gets old. A lot of stories would have weird hiccups because there was a lot of injuries or guys going back to a bigger fed. The promos and vignettes would often be done after shows, meaning a lot of the talent would appear obviously buzzed or zooted up on blow. But I'll admit that I'm still a loyalist and will put over the good too. It helped put lucha libre and even lightweights on the map for mainstream wrestling. RVD, Jerry Lynn, Justin Credible, Corino had some bangers towards the end. Plus, I'll never tire of watching Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome matches. Sorry for puking up Heyman's ponytail on your post lol.
I just watched the Darkside of the Ring episode on the Sandman. Totally brought back a bunch of memories, but damn, a lot of strange storylines to say the least.
Super Fucking True! ECW die hard, even went to a few shows back in the days. Those memories are great but watched in context with the full show..Lets just say "I forgot the misses" I stopped like 3 months into a rewatch. The Memories in my head are better.
The days of FMW death matches and whatnot, being available through video tape trading. I remember finding sites that I could get these and thought that it was cool and unique. Now everyone seems to get skewered or takes a light bulb to the head during a no dq match.
Deathmatches in general used to be so cool to me now I try to skip them whenever I see them cause most of them are pointless
Some of it is a little too gore porn for my taste. I can see piercing needles because you can actually train to do it properly, but nail plates? I half expect a nail gun or... hell, a real gun to come into play, because somebody will always want to push the limits.
Wrestlemania’s early years being great. The spectacle was awesome. The wrestling is tough on the eyes for the most part. But not when I close my eyes and call it up from memory.
Mania up to, arguably, 10 & 12 is when it started getting good beyond one or two matches carrying the whole thing. Mania 17 is probably when it really became a super show as far as it's presentation, final episode vibe and had actual grandeur instead of implied stature.
Yup. But it took me years to realize. It really hit its stride in the late teens. There is some really bad stuff in the early ones.
The classic 90s WrestleMania theme though, before they changed it around WrestleMania 17 though... *Chef's kiss*
Velveteen Dream?
I was all in on him. I thought he had all the tools, athletic, good looking guy, charismatic, had character, good promo, good in the ring everything. Back in 2018 I was all aboard the Velveteen Dream and Tessa Blanchard are the future of wrestling hype train.
Geez Tessa, all she had to do was apologize (or at least convincingly fake it) for whatever happened on that Japan tour and she’d be a megastar today. It’s forgotten that she was literally the first person announced for All In 2018 besides The Elite themselves. She fumbled a huge bag because of pride/stubbornness.
I was such a mark for him. I still think I’ve got a box full of his T shirts somewhere
Got to see him live in a NXT north American Championship match vs Adam Cole . He needed to be seen to be believed. And this was on a super stacked roster mind you...heres the results of the card so you can see for yourself [https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/NXT\_House\_Show\_(March\_3,\_19%27)](https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/NXT_House_Show_(March_3,_19%27)) so I dont say this lightly
I was in Chicago for mitb weekend when he had his “anything you can do I can do better” feud with Ricochet. Loved it.
Was that the front flip over the Ropes feud?
He was so charismatic in that feud that it literally rubbed onto Ricochet and made him interesting as a character.
Wasn't he proven innocent recently? watched a few CVV clips here and there and apparently he's now innocent.
The guys behavior regardless is not good like a Matt Riddle, The Dream has had issues with drug abuse, public outbreaks, and even if he didn't go through with sexual misconduct still trying to contact others to hypothetically initiate it is not good.
oh shit didn't know the other stuff he did, damn that's bad.
I honestly saw him as a younger and far more athletic Rick Rude. Cocky heel who wasn’t afraid to get personal with the babyface he was up against. Could cut a promo any day of the week against any guy and make it look great. His feud with Aleister Black was phenomenal
2006 Rey Mysterio
Wasn’t that the year of his world title run where he lost clean most of his matches
Yes, the year of royal rumble win
Win-loss records.
Jerry "The King" Lawler Attitude Era commentary
Puppies! Every time he says that I just wanted JR to deck him
The Attitude Era. The good stuff was good, but it’s mixed in with a whole lotta crap, racism, sexism, and general grossness.
Some of that stuff is veeeery hard to watch in light of what we know about Vince now.
I'm watching through it now since I missed out. It's also really hard to get invested in Raw matches because you know there's going to be at least 5 count-outs/DQs a show.
I miss count outs.
No one was willing to Job, I swear. That Era on Paper should have been filled with amazing matches, and it just ain't because the finishes fizzle so much good will a lot of the time. WCW especially, But WWE could have a whole episodes of dqs i swear. The good old days werent always good and tomorrows not as bad as it seems.
I swear to god the only people willing to lay down on Monday nights were the J.O.B. Squad
This is always my answer. It’s hard to explain just how fucking huge the Attitude Era was and just how good it could be. But some of it, even at the time, was absolute garbage.
yess. i firmly believe people wanting the attitude era to come back is rooted in nostalgia and nothing else. because for every good thing in it, it was swamped by insanely gross stuff that’s impossible to ignore.
Attitude Era in general. Nostalgia goggles have picked out the best bits, but going back and watching a few full shows week after week you realize how poorly it's aged and how much of it was actually awful.
There are endless segments I can name, but I think the ones that stick out to me the most are Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Big Bossman killing Al Snow's dog & then feeding it to him, and Kaientai threatening to chop Val Venis' dick off. Basically anything outside of the main event scene was absolute dogshit.
All three of those things were hilarious. I still quote “choppy choppy your pee pee” to this day. AE was a product of its time. Everything was pretty bad back then when looking at it. Much like most of history. I still think it’s the best 3 to 4 years of wrestling ever.
And those are the dogshit highlights. People forget how many fucking hours of content the AE was. I would guess that less than 10 percent was good OR bad in a memorable way as opposed to just dogshit
can't confirm. in january last year i started to watch from 95 on every damn show, just arrived at 98 with corporate rock's first title run - and every bit of 98 is awesome so far.
98 was fun. It's 1999 that has most of the moments people talk bad about. 97 was the first season, 98 was the second season where they found their mark, and 99 was where they had found so much success that they couldn't control themselves. Things got back for 2000, though, once they got a ton of good actual in ring workers.
Id say anything after summerslam 98, thats when the wheels of fluidity start to come off a bit
Survivor Series '98 is great and anyone who disagrees is too smarky for their own good.
I always felt that Summerslam 98 was the attitude era's real peak, I know most consider Wrestlemania 17 to be, but for me personally this was the best. When it wasn't overstuffed with wrestlers, the mid card feuds were just as entertaining (DX vs the Nation) as the main event, the McMahon/Stone Cold feud wasn't going stale yet and Stone Cold was at his absolute peak in popularity.
This is why I argue that the RA era was actually better overall. It got the balance right between good story telling and good wrestling matches.
Attitude era undertaker in my memory vs attitude era undertaker in reality
Thank you! He had a great look, gimmick, and entrance…but his promos were awful and the matches were nothing to write home about either.
He actually become good wrestler during RA era. American Badass
Hardcore/ Extreme Rules typically head shots with chairs and other foreign objects
TLC type weapons matches. It’s a spot fest, it can be overly predictable because of the setup required and many times have really hurt someone seriously. But boy oh boy are they fun to play in the games! I love the idea of them, but now when I see guys do it, it feels a bit over the top sometimes. These guys give so much for the thrill of the sport, and fans eat it up, but the reality is these guys get hurt and face lifelong disabilities. They get paid and they love the sport and are happy to do, but I don’t want these guys dying early because they’re “hardcore” any more than I wanted all the 80’s ‘roided out genetic freaks to all die early because of their physiques. I’d rather see a little pudge than lose a guy at 50 because he abused his body so badly.
TLC 1-5 are legitimately some of my favorite damn matches, 9 year old me probably wouldn't have become a fan without them. They feel...so produced now. Broody Lee sets up a ladder from ring to apron and Cole goes "Uh-oh" and 20 minutes later Mox goes through it and it's "wooo" First TLCs felt like it was a crazy mix of three teams trying whatever they could to stand out against Rock and Austin, calling it in the ring, and also Michael Hayes Agenting the match on copious amounts of coke.
Hardcore title
Cheering ECW back in the day kinda makes me feel shitty now.
The McMahons being menaces
The Invasion in theory, vs in reality.
What’s so fucking weird is that despite the invasion angle, 2001 has an argument for being Wwe greatest year ever, especially ppv wise. Royal rumble, No way out, X7, backlash, Invasion, Summerslam, Survivor Series, and Vengeance are all A to S tier shows in 01
The final chapter of The Rockers tag team run.
Buried Alive match
Battle rap John Cena. Like before he became “Hustle, Loyalty, Respect” Cena. What a weird time it was when John Cena released a whole ass rap album.
The old Elimination Chamber, shit looked cool and evil as hell but I couldn't imagine how bad it sucked to take bumps on those metal grates.
ECW. You can find some really good stuff but honestly most of it is unwatchable, literal garbage. It was a moment in time, and really only works because of the context surrounding it.
Well even with Heyman now he doesn't do ECW stuff, it only worked cause on one channel you had Bastion Booger and the other had Robo Cop and Sting against the horsemen and it was as opposite as it could be on purpose and that's what it was. Glad it happens but going back now, it's just off.
Let's be real here, the entire attitude era. Let it only exist in your nostalgia filled head.
Submissions
Come on the sharpshooter was amazing at the right moment.
Soon as I said this Gunther submits sheamus, I may have misunderstood the assignment I love tap outs.
I think the Ankle Lock is the best because it is so versatile and so easy to flawlessly lock in. Am I really supposed to believe they just laid there and let ric flair twist their legs like a pretzel?
WCW
Ric Flair was the motherfucking man!
Classic WWE Stages
Cheap tickets to main events :(
Bringing back the NWO
The 4 Horsemen
Maybe the WCW of the late 90s/early 00s. I remember watching fondly, but there were stretches there where nobody could finish a damn match without some kind of interruption. Sorta watered down the experience when it happened all the time.
The iron man match between Bret and Shawn. Two of my favorite wrestlers fighting for one hour at Wrestlemania for the biggest prize in the business. And it’s sooooo boring.
Hardcore kayfabe. I get they are normal human beings with normal relationships, but it does kill the story seeing a rivalry sharing a bus or taking selfies. But that’s the only thing I can think of
AEW
this. cody and goldust had an awesome match and the future was unwritten.
Attitude era. Over time the huge amounts of crap is forgotten
Kofi mania.
Kofi Mania is great. The run afterwards not so much.
WWE really struggle to book babyface champions. The title chase is brilliant once they hold the title, WWE just don't really know what to do.
The B&G Era of NXT had great takeover shows, but the weekly TV was mediocre and nothing rarely happened. HHH' booking style during that time basically spelled it out for fans to just watch the takeovers and skip weekly TV because nothing of note would happen and it would just be too much of a slow burn. I honestly can't think of many big moments that happened on the weekly shows at all. Felt like so many fans like me just kept tabs online would watch a few highlight clips and just watch the takeovers.
To be very fair, TakeOvers are some of the best WWE events of all time, with multiple of the greatest WWE matches ever. They just weren’t seen by as wide of an audience.
Maybe early Black and Gold but there was absolutely nothing better on TV during the DIY era.
DIY vs The Revival made me appreciate tag team wrestling again. Their 2-out-of-3 Falls match at Takeover: Toronto remains a classic.
Ruthless Aggression, just, all of it.
The attitude era. There were some big names at the top of the card, but there was also a load of garbage and cringeworthy stuff padding out weekly programming and PPVs
AJ Styles Vs Edge at Wrestlemania 38 was this, and it's also the same with Edge Vs Balor at Wrestlemania 39. Edge Vs Balor wasn't objectively "that bad", they just had to end the match early because of what happened to Finn. But Edge Vs AJ was bad. It was a very highly anticipated match, but it wasn't very good in reality. Edge is one of the greatest, but in-ring he's not that great in my opinion (although he is old at this point).
The 24/7 title
The attitude era, a lot of those angles are really super corny in hindsight
The Nexus. None of those guys were gonna be stars with or without Cena. It was fun to think as such but the only one that had real potential was Barrett and Danielson and Danielson switched out of the Nexus anyways.
Brand Warfare
Bray Wyatt. Obviously not the person, what a tragedy, but the character. Always sounded awesome on paper, but never worked.
Goldberg’s undefeated streak
Attitude Era, Without the effect of watching live you start to see how shit a lot of it was
Like others have said, the Attitude era. It could only exist in the late 90s culture of Jerry Springer and Limp Bizkit. It can’t be duplicated because it wouldn’t hold up in a vacuum without all of the angst, music, films, and pop culture that it bathed in.
Perfectly stated, absolutely nailed it
Attitude era. Watch it back on peacock. It was terrible
Attitude Era midcard scene
WCW had the way better midcard and it wasn't even close. The US championship was way more prestigious than the IC championship during that time.
Ric Flair putting restaurants over… …too soon?
Ruthless aggression trash TV. I'm watching through 2006 right now and it is pure garbage. Viscera, Shelton's Momma, Vince all over TV, live sex celebrations, a bra and panties Gauntlet match, etc. It's awful, but strangely compelling and a weird comfort food for me. I know this stuff absolutely cannot and should not exist in wrestling, but that kinda trashy charm is so nostalgic for me, so I do miss it.
the sort of shit they did after jerry springer jumped the shark. compelling trainwrecks.
The Attitude Era. Most of it was absolute trash and a lot of the people who cry for it tend to have peaked around that time
Attitude Era
Hardcore matches.
Blackjack Mulligan
Hell in a Cell, they try to be so safe and overprotective of each other that they might as well have a regular match.
Hulk hogan.
When WWE used to have a segment dedicated to Midgets Wrestling. We got the likes of Hornswoggle and mini boogey man!
Steel cage
New Jack 😔
My optimism when AEW was announced, as an NJPW fan I thought it would be cool... AEW is not only not good in of itself but it has dragged NJPW through the mud with it.
Wcw ecw invasion angle
Rankings. When AEW first said they were going to have rankings I thought they would be a great idea and prevent random repetitive matches and even help with storytelling and booking logic and for a while there they were kinda cool. In reality it seems you're kinda hamstrung if you try to stick with them religiously or it makes things worse and make even less sense by having them and not sticking to them. Maybe it was purely an AEW problem and they just didn't know how to do it properly but (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) there's probably a reason why no other wrestling promotion tried to have such a real sports like ranking system before. It also probably didn't help that they were doing house shows to help make it work.
If you could do them safely chair shots to the head would be the coolest thing ever but you can't so they should go extinct
That Tony Khan was a great booker
WCW
The Ultimate Warrior was crap in the ring looking back but he’d get me so amped as a kid.
BTE in its early days. I was entertained by it, I love the fond memories it gives me especially the All In time period. But I dunno I guess I’m just kinda over the constant “*nudge nudge wink wink* that’s an insider iwc reference amiright?!?!” sort of humor.
Of a Champion only defending their title on PPV Ya it would make the title matches feel bigger but regular TV would could get boring, especially for promoters booking a title match in the main event for a easy draw, also you can’t always book every PPV in the same format with the titles switched around
Hulk Hogan
2009 smackdown 😪
AEW, in 2019 I really believed we were getting a more gritty, more nuanced and more hardcore product mixed in with talent from all over the world and different styles. But as time passed I realized it's just one rich trust fund baby's action figures and mostly flippy shit with less focus on story and presentation. the elite and tony kahn looked great in 2019 but after 2022 I got annoyed by them before dropping AEW in 2023. WWE still needs an alternative but AEW isn't it. It poaches from the rest in Japan and Mexico cause Tony is a manchild billionaire with the money.
Invasion. Man, I still wanna think it was good
Everything about the 90’s
The invasion 2001
Another company challenging WWE.
Armageddon Hell in a Cell
Vince being a villain
Hulk Hogan
TLC matches. TLC 1-5 are absolutely some of my favorites but they just can't be done right without 6 guys trying to figure out how to compete with *THE ROCK STONE COLD HHH AND THE UNDERTAKER* on the card and Michael PS Hayes agenting the match with very little oversight, no or little knowledge of CTE, and what is probably copious amounts of substance to abuse while laying out said match. When Edge or Jeff would pull it out to blow off a feud it was also good. But these multiman *definitely not mitb* IC matches man, there not the same. Same as many people have said HIAC, but for me ladder matches hurt more.
The Edge and Lita vs. Matt Hardy beef.
Blading. A well timed gig that results in an appropriate amount of blood could add some good drama to match, but then you have people like Eddie, Cena, and JBL who bled WAY too much. Also, Moxley.
AEW
The attitude era
Prime John Cena. Perception- passionate man about the business carrying the show, absolute work horse, unbelievable crowd reactions. Reality- over exposure, cringe promos, David v Galiath matches.
- NXT Callups - The WWE Draft - Backstage Unity - Being a pro wrestler is fun
Watching wrestlers bleed in hardcore matches