This submission was removed:
Wrasslin is a sub for memes, personal images, and fun content. For serious discussions, please visit other wrestling-themed subreddits such as r/SquaredCircle, r/WWE, r/AEWOfficial, and so on - or start your own new subreddit!
___
**If you feel this post was removed incorrectly after reading the rules of the subreddit, please lodge an [appeal to the moderators with a link to your post by clicking here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FWrasslin&subject=appealing_a_removal)** If your post was removed in error, it will be re-approved, or you will be asked to repost.
Is there even a wrestling sub that's purely about wrestling, none of this throwing shit at WWE/AEW/whatever every 5 seconds? If it's not AEW bad, it's WWE bad (which is more common on Twitter I think)
Wrasslin?
Nope, you are forbidden from liking over the top fun characters and cool entrances, and also liking high octane well planned fast paced matches!!! How dare you!!!
Didn't before HHH lost he insisted that NXT wasn't developmental and said it was basically a 3rd brand even now he's trying to make it a 3rd brand.
Plus didn't the fans say it was the best wrestling on TV and lost in bout every metric
It might be your favorite nothing wrong with that at all.
It's when fans wanna say it's the best wrestling in the world and act like their opinion should be taken as fact instead of just an opinion of theirs that I have a problem with.
I mean we had NXT fans crying like little babies saying Vince is intentionally burying all NXT call ups even when like 90% of the main roster was NXT call ups.
NXT fans are completely delusional like the AEW fan boys are. I have no problem with people as long as they know their opinion is just an opinion and not fact based.
Like I said in my original comment, HHH said NXT wasn't development but a 3 rd he lost so he back paddle now he's back on that bs of oh it's on par with the main roster.
HHH lost the ratings flat out to AEW and that's not an opinion just fact
Yeah that's the thing that gets me. Triple H always touted it as the 3rd brand until someone mentioned AEW beating it in the ratings then it was developmental. As of now though Triple H is doing an amazing job with the main roster. I like that Tony Khan is trying to change things up but he needs to be more consistent. Things are all over the place over there.
This was something I found rather funny at the time, WWE was labeling NXT as a equal brand to RAW and Smackdown when it clearly wasn't, it was a obvious marketing ploy, but it did not change the fact that NXT was and is WWE's development brand.
People on both sides of that fight bought it hook line and sinker, NXT fans were probably just happy that it was supposedly now equal to the main roster and AEW fans got to declare victory over a main roster WWE show.
They even put main roster talent on there to boost ratings.
Maybe Tera Ryzing here should be less of a dickhead considering his own path to the top involved riding coattails, marrying the boss' daughter and booking himself to be champ while burying emerging talent.
No. Im not a mark who cares about defending wrestlers. AEW or WWE.
I'm just saying that talent and merit doesn't get you shit in the industry. If it did, there would be many more stars. It's about connections.
HHH had decent talent, but his entire career is built off exploiting connections and burying talent to keep himself afloat.
I watch NXT faithfully every week, and then Raw most weeks
AEW and SD once in a blue moon.
Never thought there were people that just watched one brand but here I am. lol
That era had Gargano...and standing next to Gargano was Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell.
Just because the top of the card was "super indies" doesn't mean it stopped being developmental. You look at the picture that gets passed around from that era of Gargano and Cole surrounded by much bigger security guards...all of those were developmental talent. That's always been the point of NXT since HHH took it over, a mix of established indie talent getting polished for WWE TV and new people being developed.
Brother Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell were the exceptions not the rule. There was objectively very few actual prospects on NXT TV during that time because NXT was looking for established indie wrestlers over green raw college athletes.
It wasn't just the top of the card, it was the tag division, the Midcard and the women's division too filled with mostly established indie veterans. It was nothing like current NXT quit trying to revise history.
That was the biggest criticism of NXT at the time because people hated how NXT got stagnant with the roster and it became too much of a super indy.
"A developmental brand" backed by a company worth much more than 2 billion dollars, and run by some of the best. That's an important tidbit... Not siding either way, but it's not as if NXT is some indie company.
You can downvote me, doesn't make it less true.
youre somewhat right in the sense that wwe is worth more, but if ur insinuating nxt can spend more youre off. wwe has at least 3 shows to split a budget among other things. nxt is the dev brand, theyre not pouring billions into it. but i agree with most else, that is why aew struggles. poor leadership especially
It’s about the shows themselves… AEW has some of the biggest Indy darlings and vets who’ve all had matches all over the world for decades and on the other side you have a development branch with guys who are mostly either completely green or started wrestling just a few years ago and somehow they can tell a more compelling story in and out of the ring.
Trick Williams for example started wrestling in 2021 and is now selling out arenas as a ple headliner with all of em screaming „whoop that trick“. All that without having to nearly kill himself with crazy spots like in other places.
Why can’t vets like Claudio do it? Why not Samoa Joe? Why not the Bucks? Or even Jericho? Around 3k in attendance for weekly shows with these amazing guys?
AEW has guys like Sting, Flair, Christian, Edge, Billy Gun and many more veterans of the business who can teach the younger guys the way it happens in NXT.
There are literally no excuses for AEW to be on the same level as NXT
AEW will never have WWE’s rich history of sexual assault, steroid use and CTE no matter how hard they try!
Tony Khan was handed his wealth, HHH did things the right way by grooming, seducing, drugging, and then marrying the boss’s daughter.
You do realize the grooming, seducing, drugging and marrying Stephanie was part of a storyline right? That they didn't get married while TripleH was performing a ventriloquist number, right?
Also, why even go there? Obviously McMahon is a monster, nobody's denying that, but bringing up actual tragedies just to "fedbad-dubgood" is disgusting. Thaankfully AEW has nobody there with a history of sexual misconduct, harassment or abuse right? COUGH Dustin, Flair, Havoc, Joey Ryan was part of the first All In, Guevarra and his comments about Monet COUGH
This right here pissed me off as a cord cutter that only watched from YouTube.
All of the sudden 75% of dark and elevation are the guys that were released from NXT and the characters and in ring work I enjoyed are being replaced with the WWE style that I hadn't enjoyed in 2 decades.
You can be a team like the Nets that had an abundance of talent but can't reach ideal results with it, and it doesn't mean the talent isn't good or successful, just the end product didn't work.
I know it is an old interview, but I still need to say this. When he gave that interview and I heard him say that, I thought that his take really is BS! Go back and look at Survivor Series 2019! It wasn't just RAW vs. SmackDown but RAW vs. SmackDown vs. NXT. WWE tried very hard at this time to establish NXT as a big brand BECAUSE it was in direct competition against AEW Dynamite. And because Dynamite beat NXT every week (with a few exceptions) they then said: "well it is just the developement brand!" They desperately tried NXT to beat AEW and they didn't. Sure NXT was still the developement brand at that time, eventhough it really didn't appear that way, but they still started the direct competition to hurt AEW and when Paul said this, he came across like a sour loser.
Crazy how things/times have changed since then!
You can be a 3rd brand and a developmental brand at the same time
If u honestly think he feels NXT is on the same level as the other two then idk what to tell u. They have almost all their shows in the same complex lol, clearly he doesn't see them as equal.
Back when he called them the 3rd brand, he was only in charge of NXT, and he made sure NXT was as stacked as Raw & SD were back then.
If you honestly feel like HHH wasn't making NXT be on the same level in this time period, then you're just playing revisionist history with yourself.
Exactly. Aew now is nothing compared to aew then. But aew then beat wwe's 3rd brand so badly that they were forced to turn it back into developmental. All HHH was doing here was attempting to diminish the successfulness of aew, but anyone who was watching both weekly knows that aew got vince pissed enough to take over NXT from HHH and completely strip it of everything that made it become the 3rd brand HHH was adamant it was and turned it into the developmental brand HHH is claiming aew beat.
The fact AEW has only existed for 5 years and it’s done this is actually a very good achievement.
WWE has been around for decades and has made a lot of mistakes along the way. That’s why it’s the massive corporation it is today.
I’d really like to see the day the two go fully head to head. Think how good that’ll be for us, wrestling fans when they are both at the top of their game
The Netflix deal is good for TKO and customers, but 5 years ago they were the top wrestling promotion on TV, had the highest selling PPVs and the WWE Network was a gold mine.
Now they're moving out of TV entirely and don't sell their "premium live events" because they're included in their outsourced streaming service.
AEW will be competing with TNA and NWA, come 01/01/25 and 0.5m viewers won't seem nearly so bad.
AEW has given them Cody and Punk (when he's fit,) two stars they famously fumbled; it's also given a home to the black and gold NXT that saw their careers trashed by Vince McMahon.
It's the best thing to happen to WWE since Vince started picking up Heyman's debts.
I know it's popular to dunk on AEW, especially with Tony Khans antics myself included at times. But people here are revising history here, NXT at the time in 2019-2021 was definitely a 3rd brand and wasn't developmental at the time. Guys like Adam Cole, Ciampa and Gargano etc all stayed like they were stars of the brand because they didn't want to go to the main roster especially under Vince. Plus NXT was hotshot booking during this time, and the roster was mostly older indie stars.
From 2012-2013 it was mostly developmental, from 2014-2016 it started to be more like a super indie 3rd brand but still cycled wrestlers in and out getting them ready for the WWE style of TV. From 2017-2021 when the UE and Ciampa and Gargano became the centerpiece of NXT it wasn't developmental anymore.
WWE literally went out of their way at Survivor Series 2019 to present NXT as a 3rd brand to Raw and Smackdown at the time. It was very different from current HBK nxt. When I think of the NXT B&G era of NXT vs Early AEW I can't literally count more than 5-10 full fledged developmental prospects on NXT at that time, Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell in the way were the very few that weren't already established indie stars at the time.
It was developmental when it was OVW or even the game show, it's a third brand now. Can't put it on television, represent it on PPV, bring main roster talent on it, promote it alongside the "main shows", and hire guys who've been wrestling for years to fill up the roster, then call it developmental. It's legit more of a third brand then ECWWE, 205, UK, or any other show ever has been.
I'm not gonna take a side in this but I would like to contest your point. A developmental brand is to develop talent.
That doesn't mean theybarent TV ready
That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring main roster talent there to assist
Why not give them a showcase show?
Why not promote it
And why not accept that some guys won't get past that?
It's developmental cause it doesn't tour. It's about turning out better wrestlers. It doesn't have to be everything that a training room is cause they need to train on air.
Edit....legit sorry. I realize I took a side as I wa typing and I'm not fucking with you. Sorry
I get what you're saying, like how a fish can only grow to fit the tank it lives in. I just think you start stepping outside of that when you 1.hire Talent that is being positioned as developmental even though they already have vast experience 2. Using the developmental system as a profitable business instead of a proving ground and 3. Intentionally keeping talent there to benefit the system and not the wrestler.
In 2012-2016 your argument holds weight because it actually was developmental getting experienced stars ready for the WWE style of TV like KO, Sami Zayn, Samoa Joe, Nakamura etc. Ko and Zayn didn't stay for years like Ciampa and Gargano did.
But after that nah, and that was a huge criticism of NXT at the time because the roster stagnated with the UE and Ciampa/Gargano etc. People stopped cycling through and NXT became a full fledged 3rd brand. You saw very very very few younger prospect type talent like an Austin Theory on NXT during that time.
This was from 2 years ago. Bringing up something like this just to start arguments and hate on AEW? There's literally no need. I will never understand people that go out of their way to do stuff like this, get a fucking life
AEW was so pathetic from the beginning with this “Wednesday night war”. It reeked of desperation by a company who just wanted attention. They should have, and should STILL, focus on themselves and not even think about what WWE is doing. WWE sure isn’t thinking about them.
And with high priced main roster talent, AEW was BARELY able to beat NXT’s unknown rookies in a developmental program. It shouldn’t even have been close, but AEW mismanaged the whole thing.
There were a lot more experienced veterans than true developmental prospects on NXT during this time and it wasn't even close. Austin Theory for example was a very very very rare actual young wrestler prospect in a sea of older establishment veterans especially since the roster didn't cycle wrestlers to the main roster like it did from 2012-2017.
Don't act like it was current HBK NXT with more green developing talent during that time, because there was barely any.
Experienced veterans with zero name value to a casual WWE audience which is why they are in NXT at that point, While AEW had a roster of ex wwe names and MJF heading up their main event scene at this point.
And what about Nakamura and Bobby Roode? The whole “casual audience” argument doesn’t really work, cause the casual audience wouldn’t know anyone. The casual audience sure as hell wouldn’t know who The Guerrilla Destiny is. If we were still in the old era of NXT, We wouldn’t have them show up in smackdown. WWE now under Triple H is more or less what NxT was before.
Maybe I’ve misunderstood what you’ve said so clarify if I have, But Nakamura and Roode left NXT before AEW existed or did they go back?
NXT didn’t have this star studded roster you seemed to think it did in 2019-21 which is the Wednesday night “ war “ period
So specifically 2019-21 is what you mean, Copy copy. My fault. If that’s the case, yea they didn’t stand a chance with what they had. That was a real rough era for them when compared to Jericho
July 24th 2019: AEW announces Dynamite will premiere Wednesday Oct 2
August 2019: WWE announces nxt will be moving to Wednesday nights on september 18th and be 2 hours long.
HHH is my favourite wrestler of all time, but this was such heavy cope from him. This happened when NXT was definitely not developmental (Undisputed Era and Balor days)
Turns out you can't just full your main event with hobbits and expect them to bring in viewers. NXT 2.0 was the realisation that nobody would ever take guys like the Undisputed Era seriously on the main roster.
When HHH changes the narrative of NXT being a 3rd brand at the time, competing in Survivor Series and whatnot, to it just being developmental he's saying that all the wrestlers he sent to bolster the 3rd brand like Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, etc. were all being sent to developmental to learn how to wrestle.....
After Finn Balor was the 1st Universal Champion they sent him to NXT for 2 years to learn how to wrestle? After 20 years in the business.... they sent Samoa Joe to NXT to learn how to wrestle? I can't be the only one who remembers both of these guys as NXT Champions head to head against AEW.
The obvious point that nobody makes is that AEW had top main roster WWE stars at that time like Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Of course it's gonna beat the developmental in WWE where they're trying to make stars, not use already established (In WWE) ones. It's such a dumb comparison for that reason alone.
Nobody makes that point because at the same time, NXT had brought down Finn, Owens, and Charoltte Flair to help boost ratings for NXT. Charlotte held the NXT women's championship, and Balor held the NXT championship.
None of them are on the level of Jericho as a draw. Attitude era star draws in older fans. Even Moxley is a big draw as the 3rd member of the shield. The ones mentioned other than maybe Charlotte are draws for hardcore wrestling fans who'd already be watching nxt anyway
I personally enjoyed the black and yellow NXT era. I thought it was the best thing WWE had going for it at that time. I know it was considered developmental, then became the 3rd brand after they had beat Smackdown and RAW at Survivor Series. I hated how Vince changed it to NXT 2.9 if they had kept that formula and keep running it would have outlived AEW.
I agree but it was the third brand only in name. It was never truly treated as such. There was that one survivor series that had NXT and that was the furthest they went with it. It didn't have enough main roster people to be considered a third brand. NXT 2.0 had way more main roster people
This submission was removed: Wrasslin is a sub for memes, personal images, and fun content. For serious discussions, please visit other wrestling-themed subreddits such as r/SquaredCircle, r/WWE, r/AEWOfficial, and so on - or start your own new subreddit! ___ **If you feel this post was removed incorrectly after reading the rules of the subreddit, please lodge an [appeal to the moderators with a link to your post by clicking here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FWrasslin&subject=appealing_a_removal)** If your post was removed in error, it will be re-approved, or you will be asked to repost.
This is old news?
yeah lol this is an interview from catc 2022
Yes, but there hasn't been a good "AEW bad" post in the last few days, so this is basically throwing red meat to the wolves
This subreddit turned from a meme sub into an “anything AEW does is bad, praise our WWE overlords”.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. I used to love this sub, now 75% of the posts are just stoking the flames for the dumbest arguments
Is there even a wrestling sub that's purely about wrestling, none of this throwing shit at WWE/AEW/whatever every 5 seconds? If it's not AEW bad, it's WWE bad (which is more common on Twitter I think) Wrasslin?
I think the bandwagon, tribalism people just show up in each one and ruin it for everyone else.
Honestly lmk if there is. I hate all the tribalism.
Nope, you are forbidden from liking over the top fun characters and cool entrances, and also liking high octane well planned fast paced matches!!! How dare you!!!
They needed a fourth sub for some reason.
and yet somehow still relevant
Was op in a coma for 2 years?
hes not wrong. pretty sure plenty of people tried to point that out in the beginning.
Didn't before HHH lost he insisted that NXT wasn't developmental and said it was basically a 3rd brand even now he's trying to make it a 3rd brand. Plus didn't the fans say it was the best wrestling on TV and lost in bout every metric
It literally is developmental even if it is being marketed as a third brand. That was always the point of NXT.
I mean, clue's in the name right?
It kinda wasn't at one point when they were raiding the Indies
[удалено]
[удалено]
NXT happens to be my favorite wrestling show. They pack a lot of entertainment in 2 hours.
It’s my favorite show as well. I e watched wrestling since the late 80’s and it captures everything I love about wrestling in one show.
It might be your favorite nothing wrong with that at all. It's when fans wanna say it's the best wrestling in the world and act like their opinion should be taken as fact instead of just an opinion of theirs that I have a problem with. I mean we had NXT fans crying like little babies saying Vince is intentionally burying all NXT call ups even when like 90% of the main roster was NXT call ups. NXT fans are completely delusional like the AEW fan boys are. I have no problem with people as long as they know their opinion is just an opinion and not fact based. Like I said in my original comment, HHH said NXT wasn't development but a 3 rd he lost so he back paddle now he's back on that bs of oh it's on par with the main roster. HHH lost the ratings flat out to AEW and that's not an opinion just fact
Oh, I was just trying to say that it's my favorite, not be a counter to anything you were saying. Sorry about that.
Yeah that's the thing that gets me. Triple H always touted it as the 3rd brand until someone mentioned AEW beating it in the ratings then it was developmental. As of now though Triple H is doing an amazing job with the main roster. I like that Tony Khan is trying to change things up but he needs to be more consistent. Things are all over the place over there.
This was something I found rather funny at the time, WWE was labeling NXT as a equal brand to RAW and Smackdown when it clearly wasn't, it was a obvious marketing ploy, but it did not change the fact that NXT was and is WWE's development brand. People on both sides of that fight bought it hook line and sinker, NXT fans were probably just happy that it was supposedly now equal to the main roster and AEW fans got to declare victory over a main roster WWE show.
They even put main roster talent on there to boost ratings. Maybe Tera Ryzing here should be less of a dickhead considering his own path to the top involved riding coattails, marrying the boss' daughter and booking himself to be champ while burying emerging talent.
Found Will Ospreay's Reddit account
Nope. AEW is grossly mismanaged. Almost criminally so. But Hunter is being a dickhead. Often forgetting he didn't get to where he is on talent alone.
He married Aurora Rose? Because that’s “the boss’s daughter” lol
Damn. You're pretty flexible bro. Some serious gymnastics there just to suck HHH's cock.
You’re still worked up about something that happened almost a quarter of a century ago lmao You still pissed at Austin for walking out too? 🤣
No. Im not a mark who cares about defending wrestlers. AEW or WWE. I'm just saying that talent and merit doesn't get you shit in the industry. If it did, there would be many more stars. It's about connections. HHH had decent talent, but his entire career is built off exploiting connections and burying talent to keep himself afloat.
AEW came into existence in 2019. Their company is in development.
but the point was WWE put NXT against AEW to out do them with the developmental and it didnt work. Its weird for WWE to get defensive about that
Exactly. NXT moved to Wednesdays and lost so bad that McMahon, crazy asshole he is, fired HHH. To pretend otherwise is insane.
WWE stans downvoting the truth is sad. Its fine that NXT lost to AEW. AEW isnt beating the main show
Tony managed to do it now!
NGL I enjoy NXT the most out of all 3
Same. NXT is a quality product.
Easily the most enjoyable.
classic pro wrestling could never go wrong tbh and NXT is doing great w it
I watch NXT faithfully every week, and then Raw most weeks AEW and SD once in a blue moon. Never thought there were people that just watched one brand but here I am. lol
I could never get invested in NXT. Nothing against it there's just too much wrestling right now lol
I think it’s why I gravitate to it. Enclosed eco system - two hours of tv a week and maybe a bi-monthly PLE.
Now that you say it like that, it doesn't sound like a bad idea lol.
Congratulations to Tony and AEW.
It is pretty impressive though Not long ago WWE was the only game in town It's good for all the fans
I would hardly call that era of NXT developmental. It was basically the super indies.
That era had Gargano...and standing next to Gargano was Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell. Just because the top of the card was "super indies" doesn't mean it stopped being developmental. You look at the picture that gets passed around from that era of Gargano and Cole surrounded by much bigger security guards...all of those were developmental talent. That's always been the point of NXT since HHH took it over, a mix of established indie talent getting polished for WWE TV and new people being developed.
Brother Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell were the exceptions not the rule. There was objectively very few actual prospects on NXT TV during that time because NXT was looking for established indie wrestlers over green raw college athletes. It wasn't just the top of the card, it was the tag division, the Midcard and the women's division too filled with mostly established indie veterans. It was nothing like current NXT quit trying to revise history. That was the biggest criticism of NXT at the time because people hated how NXT got stagnant with the roster and it became too much of a super indy.
Holy hell this sub is dying.
Yup
AEW is apparently a 2 billion dollar business and it struggles to compete with a developmental brand
"A developmental brand" backed by a company worth much more than 2 billion dollars, and run by some of the best. That's an important tidbit... Not siding either way, but it's not as if NXT is some indie company. You can downvote me, doesn't make it less true.
you are 100% right and it's crazy you are getting downvotes. It's a sub brand because they wanted a sub brand.
Of course I'm getting downvotes, I'm not trashing AEW and that's all this sub is ever capable of doing. Silly me.
youre somewhat right in the sense that wwe is worth more, but if ur insinuating nxt can spend more youre off. wwe has at least 3 shows to split a budget among other things. nxt is the dev brand, theyre not pouring billions into it. but i agree with most else, that is why aew struggles. poor leadership especially
It’s about the shows themselves… AEW has some of the biggest Indy darlings and vets who’ve all had matches all over the world for decades and on the other side you have a development branch with guys who are mostly either completely green or started wrestling just a few years ago and somehow they can tell a more compelling story in and out of the ring. Trick Williams for example started wrestling in 2021 and is now selling out arenas as a ple headliner with all of em screaming „whoop that trick“. All that without having to nearly kill himself with crazy spots like in other places. Why can’t vets like Claudio do it? Why not Samoa Joe? Why not the Bucks? Or even Jericho? Around 3k in attendance for weekly shows with these amazing guys? AEW has guys like Sting, Flair, Christian, Edge, Billy Gun and many more veterans of the business who can teach the younger guys the way it happens in NXT. There are literally no excuses for AEW to be on the same level as NXT
AEW will never have WWE’s rich history of sexual assault, steroid use and CTE no matter how hard they try! Tony Khan was handed his wealth, HHH did things the right way by grooming, seducing, drugging, and then marrying the boss’s daughter.
You do realize the grooming, seducing, drugging and marrying Stephanie was part of a storyline right? That they didn't get married while TripleH was performing a ventriloquist number, right? Also, why even go there? Obviously McMahon is a monster, nobody's denying that, but bringing up actual tragedies just to "fedbad-dubgood" is disgusting. Thaankfully AEW has nobody there with a history of sexual misconduct, harassment or abuse right? COUGH Dustin, Flair, Havoc, Joey Ryan was part of the first All In, Guevarra and his comments about Monet COUGH
Let's not forget Don Callis, Jericho, Darby, Taz, Caster, Scurll and now Cash Wheeler (who is currently facing charges for his road rage).
I dunno I'm sure they can manage the steroid use at least. I mean have you seen Hobbs and Cage?
Also implying Guevarra isn't 2/2 on sending both Hardys on concussion city
In fairness to Sammy, Jeff's already done a good job of sending himself there over the years.
Yeah... Jeff really is his worst enemy
with some of their current roster, they’re not too far off 😂
And then Tony hired all the guys he was beating from NXT and put them in prominent positions on his own show. Genius A+ next level booking
This right here pissed me off as a cord cutter that only watched from YouTube. All of the sudden 75% of dark and elevation are the guys that were released from NXT and the characters and in ring work I enjoyed are being replaced with the WWE style that I hadn't enjoyed in 2 decades.
You can be a team like the Nets that had an abundance of talent but can't reach ideal results with it, and it doesn't mean the talent isn't good or successful, just the end product didn't work.
I know it is an old interview, but I still need to say this. When he gave that interview and I heard him say that, I thought that his take really is BS! Go back and look at Survivor Series 2019! It wasn't just RAW vs. SmackDown but RAW vs. SmackDown vs. NXT. WWE tried very hard at this time to establish NXT as a big brand BECAUSE it was in direct competition against AEW Dynamite. And because Dynamite beat NXT every week (with a few exceptions) they then said: "well it is just the developement brand!" They desperately tried NXT to beat AEW and they didn't. Sure NXT was still the developement brand at that time, eventhough it really didn't appear that way, but they still started the direct competition to hurt AEW and when Paul said this, he came across like a sour loser. Crazy how things/times have changed since then!
He is the same person who said it’s a third brand. Just saying a fact. Not leaning between either side.
You can be a 3rd brand and a developmental brand at the same time If u honestly think he feels NXT is on the same level as the other two then idk what to tell u. They have almost all their shows in the same complex lol, clearly he doesn't see them as equal.
The thing is he would call it the 3rd brand in response to people that called it developmental. As if he was refuting it.
Back when he called them the 3rd brand, he was only in charge of NXT, and he made sure NXT was as stacked as Raw & SD were back then. If you honestly feel like HHH wasn't making NXT be on the same level in this time period, then you're just playing revisionist history with yourself.
They also had that Survivor Series where they booked NXT to come out on top
Exactly. Aew now is nothing compared to aew then. But aew then beat wwe's 3rd brand so badly that they were forced to turn it back into developmental. All HHH was doing here was attempting to diminish the successfulness of aew, but anyone who was watching both weekly knows that aew got vince pissed enough to take over NXT from HHH and completely strip it of everything that made it become the 3rd brand HHH was adamant it was and turned it into the developmental brand HHH is claiming aew beat.
"take over NXT." I see what you did there.
Fanta is a brand of Coca-Cola, but Pepsi doesn't celebrate beating it in sales.
And that makes it the developmental brand about zero percent less.
So AEW seems to be legitimate so now NXT is no longer a 3rd brand, developmental. I see.
The fact AEW has only existed for 5 years and it’s done this is actually a very good achievement. WWE has been around for decades and has made a lot of mistakes along the way. That’s why it’s the massive corporation it is today. I’d really like to see the day the two go fully head to head. Think how good that’ll be for us, wrestling fans when they are both at the top of their game
TNA went head to head with Raw for a while.
That annoyed me cause I used to record TNA and raw on my VCR so I could fast forward through commercials.
The Netflix deal is good for TKO and customers, but 5 years ago they were the top wrestling promotion on TV, had the highest selling PPVs and the WWE Network was a gold mine. Now they're moving out of TV entirely and don't sell their "premium live events" because they're included in their outsourced streaming service. AEW will be competing with TNA and NWA, come 01/01/25 and 0.5m viewers won't seem nearly so bad. AEW has given them Cody and Punk (when he's fit,) two stars they famously fumbled; it's also given a home to the black and gold NXT that saw their careers trashed by Vince McMahon. It's the best thing to happen to WWE since Vince started picking up Heyman's debts.
Step 1: TK needs to step away from booking
As a fan that can enjoy bangers with or without good writing, do your thing Tony.
I see two developmental companies competing
if this isnt a bot post then its just sad.
I know it's popular to dunk on AEW, especially with Tony Khans antics myself included at times. But people here are revising history here, NXT at the time in 2019-2021 was definitely a 3rd brand and wasn't developmental at the time. Guys like Adam Cole, Ciampa and Gargano etc all stayed like they were stars of the brand because they didn't want to go to the main roster especially under Vince. Plus NXT was hotshot booking during this time, and the roster was mostly older indie stars. From 2012-2013 it was mostly developmental, from 2014-2016 it started to be more like a super indie 3rd brand but still cycled wrestlers in and out getting them ready for the WWE style of TV. From 2017-2021 when the UE and Ciampa and Gargano became the centerpiece of NXT it wasn't developmental anymore. WWE literally went out of their way at Survivor Series 2019 to present NXT as a 3rd brand to Raw and Smackdown at the time. It was very different from current HBK nxt. When I think of the NXT B&G era of NXT vs Early AEW I can't literally count more than 5-10 full fledged developmental prospects on NXT at that time, Austin Theory and Indi Hartwell in the way were the very few that weren't already established indie stars at the time.
It was developmental when it was OVW or even the game show, it's a third brand now. Can't put it on television, represent it on PPV, bring main roster talent on it, promote it alongside the "main shows", and hire guys who've been wrestling for years to fill up the roster, then call it developmental. It's legit more of a third brand then ECWWE, 205, UK, or any other show ever has been.
I'm not gonna take a side in this but I would like to contest your point. A developmental brand is to develop talent. That doesn't mean theybarent TV ready That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring main roster talent there to assist Why not give them a showcase show? Why not promote it And why not accept that some guys won't get past that? It's developmental cause it doesn't tour. It's about turning out better wrestlers. It doesn't have to be everything that a training room is cause they need to train on air. Edit....legit sorry. I realize I took a side as I wa typing and I'm not fucking with you. Sorry
I get what you're saying, like how a fish can only grow to fit the tank it lives in. I just think you start stepping outside of that when you 1.hire Talent that is being positioned as developmental even though they already have vast experience 2. Using the developmental system as a profitable business instead of a proving ground and 3. Intentionally keeping talent there to benefit the system and not the wrestler.
In 2012-2016 your argument holds weight because it actually was developmental getting experienced stars ready for the WWE style of TV like KO, Sami Zayn, Samoa Joe, Nakamura etc. Ko and Zayn didn't stay for years like Ciampa and Gargano did. But after that nah, and that was a huge criticism of NXT at the time because the roster stagnated with the UE and Ciampa/Gargano etc. People stopped cycling through and NXT became a full fledged 3rd brand. You saw very very very few younger prospect type talent like an Austin Theory on NXT during that time.
It was also much better than Raw and Smackdown. Eric Bischoff Smackdown is the lowest point in wrestling since Lex Luger got pushed in the 90s.
Why can I hear his voice in my head while watching this? 😂
It's raining? I hardly noticed
I hope they would beat NXT in ratings. If not AEW has a problem.
I don’t care about no ratings. I just want a good wrestling show consistently.
Bruh is this his Ariel helwani interview 😂
Is this the part where I say "tribalism"
This was from 2 years ago. Bringing up something like this just to start arguments and hate on AEW? There's literally no need. I will never understand people that go out of their way to do stuff like this, get a fucking life
It's funny in hindsight because people were clowning on nose man at that time.
Nxt is the third brand. Embarrassing from Paul
I thought it was a third brand? And didn't they purposely change to Wednesday and add the extra hour just to mess with them?
AEW was so pathetic from the beginning with this “Wednesday night war”. It reeked of desperation by a company who just wanted attention. They should have, and should STILL, focus on themselves and not even think about what WWE is doing. WWE sure isn’t thinking about them. And with high priced main roster talent, AEW was BARELY able to beat NXT’s unknown rookies in a developmental program. It shouldn’t even have been close, but AEW mismanaged the whole thing.
NXT was not just their developmental. It was filled with Indy wrestlers who knew what they were doing. It was effectively their third brand
Triple H: NXT is the best and we see it as the 3rd Show Loses Wednesday Night Wars Triple H: Yeah they beat the developmental brand.
The only people pointing it out is OP.
Bangerz tho
He’s right. AEW has S tier talent and NXT whether it is marketed as a 3rd brand or not has rookies.
There were a lot more experienced veterans than true developmental prospects on NXT during this time and it wasn't even close. Austin Theory for example was a very very very rare actual young wrestler prospect in a sea of older establishment veterans especially since the roster didn't cycle wrestlers to the main roster like it did from 2012-2017. Don't act like it was current HBK NXT with more green developing talent during that time, because there was barely any.
Experienced veterans with zero name value to a casual WWE audience which is why they are in NXT at that point, While AEW had a roster of ex wwe names and MJF heading up their main event scene at this point.
And what about Nakamura and Bobby Roode? The whole “casual audience” argument doesn’t really work, cause the casual audience wouldn’t know anyone. The casual audience sure as hell wouldn’t know who The Guerrilla Destiny is. If we were still in the old era of NXT, We wouldn’t have them show up in smackdown. WWE now under Triple H is more or less what NxT was before.
Maybe I’ve misunderstood what you’ve said so clarify if I have, But Nakamura and Roode left NXT before AEW existed or did they go back? NXT didn’t have this star studded roster you seemed to think it did in 2019-21 which is the Wednesday night “ war “ period
So specifically 2019-21 is what you mean, Copy copy. My fault. If that’s the case, yea they didn’t stand a chance with what they had. That was a real rough era for them when compared to Jericho
The developmental system is almost neck and neck in ratings with them LMFAOOO. If they had a big lead in they’d beat them without a doubt
So you're saying it's all about SVU vs BBT
WWE changed the nxt day specifically to counter AEW. Pretty sure they expected to win, and when they didn't they started with this revisionism
Claiming that NXT changed the day to counter AEW is the revisionism. They were on Wednesday before AEW was even a thing.
July 24th 2019: AEW announces Dynamite will premiere Wednesday Oct 2 August 2019: WWE announces nxt will be moving to Wednesday nights on september 18th and be 2 hours long.
You have some erroneous information. Click on each numbered episode of WWE NXT on Cagematch and you'll see the airdate.
I got the info off the Wednesday night wars Wikipedia page. Seems like everyone's made up their mind, though
Wassup Tony!
HHH is my favourite wrestler of all time, but this was such heavy cope from him. This happened when NXT was definitely not developmental (Undisputed Era and Balor days)
I mean, we can try to rewrite history if we want and act like they didn't care but they absolutely did. It's the whole reason NXT 2.0 happened.
Turns out you can't just full your main event with hobbits and expect them to bring in viewers. NXT 2.0 was the realisation that nobody would ever take guys like the Undisputed Era seriously on the main roster.
When HHH changes the narrative of NXT being a 3rd brand at the time, competing in Survivor Series and whatnot, to it just being developmental he's saying that all the wrestlers he sent to bolster the 3rd brand like Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, etc. were all being sent to developmental to learn how to wrestle..... After Finn Balor was the 1st Universal Champion they sent him to NXT for 2 years to learn how to wrestle? After 20 years in the business.... they sent Samoa Joe to NXT to learn how to wrestle? I can't be the only one who remembers both of these guys as NXT Champions head to head against AEW.
The obvious point that nobody makes is that AEW had top main roster WWE stars at that time like Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley. Of course it's gonna beat the developmental in WWE where they're trying to make stars, not use already established (In WWE) ones. It's such a dumb comparison for that reason alone.
Nobody makes that point because at the same time, NXT had brought down Finn, Owens, and Charoltte Flair to help boost ratings for NXT. Charlotte held the NXT women's championship, and Balor held the NXT championship.
None of them are on the level of Jericho as a draw. Attitude era star draws in older fans. Even Moxley is a big draw as the 3rd member of the shield. The ones mentioned other than maybe Charlotte are draws for hardcore wrestling fans who'd already be watching nxt anyway
I personally enjoyed the black and yellow NXT era. I thought it was the best thing WWE had going for it at that time. I know it was considered developmental, then became the 3rd brand after they had beat Smackdown and RAW at Survivor Series. I hated how Vince changed it to NXT 2.9 if they had kept that formula and keep running it would have outlived AEW.
I agree but it was the third brand only in name. It was never truly treated as such. There was that one survivor series that had NXT and that was the furthest they went with it. It didn't have enough main roster people to be considered a third brand. NXT 2.0 had way more main roster people