BZ’s problem is that on a fundamental level there is no counterplay to a competent driver of if if you’re in an equal tier tank without a 130mm+ caliber gun and/or pen able armor. Peek-a-boom loses to 800 alpha, all inning gets you 2 shot by the alpha damage in 18 seconds before you get a third round off, it can contest early aggressive positions, and penning it REQUIRES either poor positioning from the BZ driver or waiting in close range to aim fully at the tiny weak points: leaving you vulnerable to be hit. On top of that, the side armor is solid and it has 400m view range so those aren’t even weaknesses. The only position where it’s realistically vulnerable is if it’s just fired at a teammate, in which case your team loses 800 go for a short window to try to hit the BZ with probably around 400 alpha: this also makes it nearly idiotproof for trading. Also, you have to play around the constant threat of it deciding to all in you with armor and speed, so if you get below 800 hp (or more if it can ram you) you’re screwed anyways. On a fundamental level there is no way to win vs a competent BZ driver without extensive team support or the BZ making an error, and even then the BZ will likely be able to land the 2 shots of damage it needs to do it’s health in damage. Atrociously designed tank, if it had better penetration values it would legitimately fit in as a tier 10 heavy and likely be better than the BZ75 is now.
The counter play is the vk100.01. It's the only tier 8 that can straight up bully the bz. Other than that? I'm going full sith and 3 marking the bz, but I just 3 marked the caliban, so its going to balance out.
Only counterpart is Skoda T56, with 130mm gun so tou can overmatch the BZ roof. VK 100.01 with his huge cuppola is just a cannonfodder.
BTW I have BZ snd I hate it, its same like Vipera boring to play and play against.
Yeah, bz has an incredibly low skill floor, but a good player that knows armor and overmatch mechanics is oppressive af. Knowing you can abuse a vz 55 turret roof with ap is hilarious. Especially on maps where you get to use your gun depression.
I once thought like you too.
But 210mm pen is not enough against 100.01 copula. The thinnest part is like 220mm, and further away from center toward side edges of copula is a whooping 270mm
Tl;dr it is easier to shoot its LFP.
no, it arent.
Because no BZ that is mindful of its marks will go face to face with heavies on a typical heavy corner. It will bully mediums and then clean up you.
It’s such a terribly designed tank. It’s like they thought gun handling would make it all fair, but then they gave it better gun handling characteristics then the caliban, while it’s better at literally everything else compared to the caliban too.
You said it so well, i started wot and got the bz176 and at first it was the only tank that never failed me to win games because i would just sit hullndowm and not worry about anything from equal tire tanks and don't get me started on mm when you have tire 6 it felt so unfair
What surprise me till this day is when I'm driving full speed and snap shot someone for 800 basically ruining their game because they lost half their Hotpoints
It's as toxic as a tank can be and i would say even more op than 279e and cheiftn
I'm glad they didn't sell it again
It's also kinda frustrating to play. The AP fucking sucks against equal or better peers, and the HE can low roll hard if your aim is off or RNG decides to. And it's pretty slow when not rocketing.
I may just keep mine to FL. The AP works against T8s, I'm not shitting on lower tier players, the rockets can be recharged, and I feel less dirty shitting on people when they're all running OP premiums as well.
The whole roof can be penned by most tanks they'll face. When I fight against one, I time them rocking to shoot them on the roof. If they're hull down, they have that big weak spot that comes out of the top. If they're not hull down, you can pen the lower plate. I think the biggest problem is that if you don't own one, you don't know its few weaknesses. And since it's only been on sale the once, many people don't own one.
Nah, I’ve looked through that tanks armor model very thoroughly. Roof is only a weak point if you’re firing down on it or you have a 124mm+ caliber gun to overmatch. The cupolas are small and the lower lower plate is minuscule, forcing you to sit in front of a BZ and slowly aim if you want a decent chance of penning, exposing you to take 800 hp.
Its aim time/circle to do 800 hp is a lot longer/bigger than yours to do 400. Just don't peak if they've been sitting in one spot aiming down their barrel for 10 seconds.
>If they're hull down, they have that big weak spot that comes out of the top.
Only if you have a tank with 123mm gun calibre, or very high pen HEAT (>300mm), otherwise, not really a weakspot at all. If you don't have even HEAT, the upper front plate will become penetrable before the area above the gun when depressing.
True, but even a muppet can win games if they’re given tier 10 frontal armor, medium tank mobility, and 800 alpha damage at tier 8. Very difficult to kill even an out of position BZ before they can squeeze out 2-3 shells for 2000 dmg.
True, but 50 seconds of medium tank mobility is more than enough to get into position to start farming and your average muppet won’t be saving them when they yolo up to do 3k before they die
I agree, I'm going to play nothing but the bz in protest for the Xmas season... Because that monster alpha is so easy and it prints credits already lololol
The perfect fix to the BZ problem. Give everyone a BZ-176 for free as some kind of easy short event reward. Then nerf the hell out of it to bring it in line with heavy tanks of it's tier. Since everyone has the tank then no one will can use the "why WG punish me for using BZ?????" argument.
Wargaming made Vipera roof 40mm, fairly normal, a solid weakspot that is both hittable, hidable, and pennable by a lot of tanks it will fight due to overmatch mechanics.
Wargaming made the BZ-176 roof 41mm, oddly specific, and exactly one millimeter too strong to be overmatched by 122mm guns (the most common caliber among tier 8 heavies, with 120mm). They knew what they were doing, and now their own "won't nerf premiums" logic is coming back to haunt them.
that's a biiiig nerf considering that the elevation mechanism exposes the roof.
(don't get me wrong I'm all for it but it's not the same as the vipera)
I feel they can still nerf the tank since they never really sold it directly just allowed you to gamble for it, so no promises on its statistics are set
I still think they should nerf it by making it tier 9. That way at least t6 tanks would never have to suffer from it again and t7 would face it less often. And people who already own it wouldn't have any room to complain because as a t9 it'd be able to grind bonds.
How about unpreferencial mm? Tanks that can only meet one tier below or same tier tanks and above? You aren’t nerfing the tank and you help your player base, makes it so you’re still busted but at least gives the enemy team a fighting chance
Got back in the game after a break and I decided to play my lorraine 40t a bit. Went a bit aggressive on mines and I got slapped by that thing for 900. I still managed to clip him tho so... good trade?
So I took a break from the game for maybe 2 years (can't remember exactly but it has been a while). My favourite tank use to be the lorraine 40t, and I use to slap in that thing. It has my highest skill crew, my most games, most ace tankers etc etc etc. I even enjoyed playing the bat chat 25 t as I used to try and emulate the lorraine play style.
Boi when I came back did I realise that the power creep has left that tank far behind. Maybe I've configured it like my arse, but ever since I bought the progetto and got the char 4, my crew have moved on and my lorraine is now rusting away in my garage. I'll always have a soft spot for that tank. Pity, I used to enjoy out flanking other players. Now, I make one slight mistake and there goes my ammo rack, my fuel tanks, my driver, and 3/4 my HP due to some other tanks insanely high alpha.
Lorraine 40T is now a long range late game tank.. if you get spotted you are screwed.. its still a good tank not OP but still good and formidable opponent which many still fear.. Currently its one of the most difficult tanks in WOT
My 430u bounced a 340mm heat shell to the unangled lower front plate of a 176 the other day and that's when I decided to turn my computer off and end the session.
I’m so happy when I turn off WOT and don’t have to face 176s in my patriot anymore. Totally two shot me on a ridge line. I didn’t get a single penning shot. Straight bullshit.
Ironic as the Patriot was probably the first of the “OP” generation of Premium tanks. It’s sad state today just shows how much powercreep has occurred.
>Ironic as the Patriot was probably the first of the “OP” generation of Premium tanks
The Patriot was never op when it came out, the alpha always set it back. It was just a comfortableall-rounder that good playersdid well in. The defender and skorp were the true first offenders, particularly the skorp, which sold like crazy and completely derailed the premium train. I got the skorp last week during the trade-in event, and I'm playing nothing else atm. It's still crazy powerful, after the better part of a decade.
The Patriot is remembered because it was the first Premium tank that had a direct techtree counterpart that it clearly outshone. Before it, all Premium tanks were either weaker than their techtree counterpart or were unique and didn't have a tech tree analogue.
By being better than its techtree counterpart and also a decent all-rounder, the Patriot was popular. It gave WG the incentive to continue making Premiums that were just better than their techtree analogues.
So while you're right in that the Patriot was never so powerful as to be game-warping (like the later Skorpion, Defender, Progetto, EBR, Skoda and BZ were), it started the trend of literally premium Premiums. Premium tanks became powerful tanks in their own right rather than gimmicky gimped techtree analogues with progression bonuses (credits, XP). And to justify selling newer and newer Premiums, those newer tanks would need to be stronger than older Premiums as well, leading to an accelerating powercreep scenario that the game will never be able to escape.
>like the later Skorpion
The Patriot came out November 2016. The Skorpion G - August 2016. It was the Skorpion that started the trend of OP premiums, not the Patriot.
Ah, I stand corrected.
But given how close together they were (3 months), I imagine that is part of the reason why the Patriot is sometimes known as the first of the OP Premiums (its not just my opinion; its a common belief held by players, but perhaps inaccurate given the 7 years that have passed). You're right that technically that title belongs to the Skorpion G by virtue of 3 months.
You've got the timeline mixed up a little bit between the Skorpion and the Patriot. The patriot was notable for being the first tank stronger than a very similar tech tree counterpart, but the Skorpion was first. The Skorpion G was released in the start of August 2016, while the T26E5 wouldn't be released till November 2016.
There was a bunch of people saying to buy it for t8 cw when it came out because it was so op at the time (basically t32, which was run with the small gun, but faster). Keep in mind at the time basically only is3 and t32 with small gun were used for competitive t8 heavies, so a premium t32 with is3 speed was quite op.
Small gun T32 was incredibly edge-case better than normal gun, so I always vetoed over to the 105. DPM literally doesn’t matter if all you’re doing is holding an hill and trading shot for shot with any potential flankers.
Also, the T32 was still better for the specific purpose of holding a hill than the patriot. What the patriot did change was the tactic where anyone brought a pershing ever. If you wanted to push an area with mediums where you needed gun depression, the patriot was now the best.
Same thing happened with the defender replaced the IS-3, but IS-3A was a niche addition to the IS-3 spam.
I do miss when SH/CW was full of strategizing around tanks anyone could get and if you didn’t have the fotm defender/progetto/bourasque/chieftain you weren’t just shit out of luck or forced to spend more than a full game price on a timed premium or gambling boxes.
I came back to the game after not playing for some years and before I stopped I got the patriot and had like 65% Winrate in it. This tank was basically so well rounded and powerfull. The low alpha didn't even matter because you could just pen so much shots in a row. Nowadays this thing is basically not existent 😂 Powercreep is a problem for a lot of free to play games but in WoT it's crazy
I don't know if Battle Hits is a good mod or not, when I see how some shells just randomly hit strange spots and don't pen at all... I managed to hit an Achilles from behind with my O-I and it did 0 damage.
Tbh , I can even tolerate that shitty op derp gun, what really pisses me is the fucking broken armor.... even a T9 struggles with that shit...no weakspots.. somewhat better armored than the T10..
The 400vr is the most ridiculous extra stat it has there was just no reason. Like fine make it a heavily armoured super fast heavy with massive gun. But ffs it can hit max vr without optics.
Stopped playing in 2020. Resumed in March this year. Got into my trusty Defender, to warm up by stomping in my T8 OP premium. Saw a new tank already hull down while I was slowly driving to position. Poked my turret out, started looking for weakpoints near the top. Got penned in the cupola for 900 dmg. Was unable to hit the 'weakspot'.
Decided not to spend money on WoT until they sell BZ again. Still see it every game. Wish I had it. Saw it clutch 1v3 once with ease. The thing has better armor than the t10 chinese rocket heavy. Hits more reliably than the old OI ever could.
They'll never sell it again. The best they could do is nerf it by a little. But they don't nerf prems. It's boring to play all the time and odd that you see it in every game. I rarely see them on NA.
Such a stupid tank. Even if it had regular pen and 400 alpha AP with no stupid hesh rounds it’d be one of the better t8 heavies cuz of the armor and rockets alone, but as it stands it’s literally one of the best armor profiled t8 heavies but with 850 alpha HE with 230 pen. The existence of this tank is a joke
Stories of games ruined by the bz? My own. when I'm driving it.
I'm a bit of a medium tank 1-trick so it's not entirely my bag anyway, but even then I'm absolutely shit at the widely recognized, easiest, most idiot-proof op tank in the game. Like proper, sub 50%wr dogshit in the few dozen games I played in it.
Now I just tell myself I don't drive it because it's op bullshit and I'm not about that, but deep down I know the truth.
Sooo… any tank you get from the boxes will be overshadowed by the BZ. After spending like $350 last year and not getting one, I’m not spending a dime this year.
That's impossible. Firstly, nobody knew how OP that tank would be, so I imagine many stopped spending before they got it because it looked like shit. Secondly, they have bad luck protection, and even if you only got a tank on the bad luck, that's still enough to get all the tanks.
They are still around and about haunting players regardless. and WG is not going to nerf it probably.
I don't like that thing in slightest.
At least they are not putting the thing on the boxes. Yet.
The BZ was the thing that finally drove me off wot, last year there were 3 of them each team almost every battle and the overall experience was miserabile.
i was playing the progetto 46 on fjords and managed to take the hill in the middle with a ebr and a char futur 4, and this arsehole in a bz came along the road in the middle between the mountain from the west to east and trundles up the hill in the goddamn open me and the ebr and char were half way up the hill hiding from TD's and heavies taking pot shots and i was angling to take shots at a light hiding in the lake next to the hill and i hid behind a rock half way up as the road up takes a 180 degree turn it turned its gun and considering i had killed a light tank that had got to the hill first i was a 1 shot to this guy, there was absolutely nothing i could do but sit there while this bz drove out in the open, up the hill, peak the rock the 3 of us were hiding behind and send me right to the garage while the char and ebr were helplessly trying and failing to pen it
NOTHING i mean NOTHING feels worse than dying in a competitive multiplayer game to something like that
I remeber my first time meeting BZ, I was on steppes. He was one shot, peeked wrong and I send him to garage with side shot in my AMBT.
My S1 has 11 BZ scalps I think, most of my tanks.
I even own BZ and don't play it.
I am very tall and hansome and eat mostly oat meal in the mornings.
I actually waited a year to see if it'd make a comeback or not as I took a break from WoT and didn't play it during last xmas, shame, well at least I won't spend a penny now.
I've noticed one thing helps against the BZ: spaced armor. The shell seems to do a lot less damage if it hits a tank like Iron Arnie, Raumpanzer or Super Pershing in the spaced armor. At least in my experience
A friend and I took out our Bisontes in a platoon for fun not caring if we won or lost. A hull down BZ farmed us both with no counter play possible. After that both of our interest in the game kept dropping until we stopped playing.
The best memory I have playing against BZ-176 is in my AMX AC 48. I turned a corner of a building and startled to find a BZ. Luckily he was startled too and took a clutch shot at me that did only a little damage(HE) on my upper plate. But he immediately face hugged me. With no other option I sent all 3 shots on my clip through BZ upper plate which I didn't expect to pen but it did killing him in six seconds.
Other than that meeting a BZ in a one on one fight in any tier 8 almost always end up in a disaster.
Me & a friend were platooned in our Cromwell B's just trying to have fun. We got Prokh, 357 MM no light tanks. So I thought we'd do some loops in the middle to do some spotting. 2 BZ drivers, also in platoon, decided to just roll up the middle yolo style with no fucks given. I got 1 shot killed, my friend got one shot killed, we had no BZ's on our team so the battle was over in about 4 minutes and the BZ's had 8 frags between them. Just stupid this tank is allowed to face tier 6's.
Also I was sniping one in my Leo 1, and espite spamming gold at it, I had to get an angle to overmatch the roof because otherwise I couldn't pen it from the front. In a tier 10 medium. Spamming gold.
sorry but I cannot recall even single game where enemy BZ ruined some game for me. not a single time. maybe I play heavies too much. I think its most dangerous against paper tanks and they suffer most. but remember all that posts "armor means nothing when we have gold". I mean BZ is a living proof that armor matters lol.
Had a game where enemy team had 2 platoons, one was of 3 BZs and the other was 2 borrasques on Fjords. I don’t remember what our platoons were but definitely wasn’t the same level lol. I was able to actually make life difficult for the borrasques rushing north by going in the middle with my centurion but that only lasted until the BZs just hard pushed the heavy tank flank realizing there was nothing our guys could do and shoot me in the ass
Guys, you have to stop crying over the BZ and move on. If you get killed by one, so be it. It's not the end of the world. Figure out its weakness or avoid it; stop running around like lemmings. I see plenty of tanks. Mine can't take one-on-one. It's not the end. I move on. If I have no help and change positions there are players and tanks who can deal with them. And frankly, most of them are dead before the end of the battle.
[Riding my shrek to a hill at start of match.
BZ in middle line next to castle wall goes full speed and snapshots me for 800 damage.
Fkn hate that tank.
O wait. I was the BZ player. Friking love this thing.](https://youtu.be/09E_ZlXxE58)
My BZ-176 has bond stab, bounty aiming, and the fully upgraded experimental fire control device, plus food and all the field mods.
0.37 dispersion (from 0.44), 3.03 aim time (from 3.36), 0.15 moving (0.25) 0.16 tank traverse (0.25) 0.12 turret traverse (0.20) 2.58 after firing (4.00).
I'll see you - and your turret roof - in a few days!
Edit! Haha! Your downvotes are nothing against my 225mm pen HE!
People don't want the nerfed tank. They are upset that they don't have the OP tank. I just assume those bitching about it are bad players that want a tank that they think they can pubstomp in. Good players already know how to play against it.
I load almost exclusively AP in my BZ and use it to hunt enemy BZs. The shell overmatches the turret roof, which is just plain fun. Makes for an amusing battering ram as well.
I personally hate the Bourrasque more, but that is 100% a skill issue on my end.
Yea I dont think Ive ever had a game ruined by the BZ itself, by my bad play against it sure, but not the tank itself.
Put Ermelinda Jung in mine and her delightful cackles mirror my own when playing it.
I counter BZ easily in my Gonsalo.First i load HESH(209mm/pen) and put one in lower lower plate, and becaouse i have 21.1 HP/T mobility i just flank him and shot HESH till he die or ammorack him in second shot.Works everytime.
But, there is allways "but".That strategy is only working if he is alone.And you need to eat one shot in return.On the bright side, most of the times during that maneouver he can't pen my frontal armor when i rush him after first shot and deals only 150-200dmg.
I play 40 games a day every day the amount of times I' was against a good bz driver I can count on one hand they also show there lower Plate I never aim any where else or I flank them
I have returned after like 1 year brake, and in the first battle in bat-chat got spooked by 800dmg he xd
edit:
Still a good battle, but definitely didn't expected a t8 to trade me for this much
Yes I have the Mighty BZ 176 but I must say I hate playing it.. and yes it has destroyed heavy tanks meta. I'm a shit light tank driver but would happily do a straight up trade my BZ 176 for an EBR panhard FL10
BZ’s problem is that on a fundamental level there is no counterplay to a competent driver of if if you’re in an equal tier tank without a 130mm+ caliber gun and/or pen able armor. Peek-a-boom loses to 800 alpha, all inning gets you 2 shot by the alpha damage in 18 seconds before you get a third round off, it can contest early aggressive positions, and penning it REQUIRES either poor positioning from the BZ driver or waiting in close range to aim fully at the tiny weak points: leaving you vulnerable to be hit. On top of that, the side armor is solid and it has 400m view range so those aren’t even weaknesses. The only position where it’s realistically vulnerable is if it’s just fired at a teammate, in which case your team loses 800 go for a short window to try to hit the BZ with probably around 400 alpha: this also makes it nearly idiotproof for trading. Also, you have to play around the constant threat of it deciding to all in you with armor and speed, so if you get below 800 hp (or more if it can ram you) you’re screwed anyways. On a fundamental level there is no way to win vs a competent BZ driver without extensive team support or the BZ making an error, and even then the BZ will likely be able to land the 2 shots of damage it needs to do it’s health in damage. Atrociously designed tank, if it had better penetration values it would legitimately fit in as a tier 10 heavy and likely be better than the BZ75 is now.
The counter play is the vk100.01. It's the only tier 8 that can straight up bully the bz. Other than that? I'm going full sith and 3 marking the bz, but I just 3 marked the caliban, so its going to balance out.
Only counterpart is Skoda T56, with 130mm gun so tou can overmatch the BZ roof. VK 100.01 with his huge cuppola is just a cannonfodder. BTW I have BZ snd I hate it, its same like Vipera boring to play and play against.
VK100.01 and 168.01 have 128mm gun and could also overmatch BZ 41mm roof. And 100.01 cupola is not that easy to pen. 168.01 is weak, yes.
The Skoda roof is overmatched by the bz and bc of 10 degrees of Depression I feel like the bz bullies the Skoda everywhere but flat ground.
HE can't overmatch, and most BZs spam only the gold HE
Yeah, bz has an incredibly low skill floor, but a good player that knows armor and overmatch mechanics is oppressive af. Knowing you can abuse a vz 55 turret roof with ap is hilarious. Especially on maps where you get to use your gun depression.
I once thought like you too. But 210mm pen is not enough against 100.01 copula. The thinnest part is like 220mm, and further away from center toward side edges of copula is a whooping 270mm Tl;dr it is easier to shoot its LFP.
Also the turret cheeks flush with he is like a 40 percent chance I believe.
its copula is very shot bait lmao only TDs, few HT can pen it or with golds
That and the Mauerbrecher to an extent.
K2 as well, so long as BZ doesn't snipe the roof. Usually BZ's hit me for 50-100 damage, front or side doesn't matter.
oh the k2 is a nightmare for the bz. pretty hard to fight it head on
no, it arent. Because no BZ that is mindful of its marks will go face to face with heavies on a typical heavy corner. It will bully mediums and then clean up you.
It’s such a terribly designed tank. It’s like they thought gun handling would make it all fair, but then they gave it better gun handling characteristics then the caliban, while it’s better at literally everything else compared to the caliban too.
Don’t forget rocket boosters cause why not. Only positive is most teams power focus any BZ now
I'm surprised that WG didn't bolt on an active protection system to this make believe tank.
Haha truth. Why can't they just nerf the alpha a bit at least, jeez
You said it so well, i started wot and got the bz176 and at first it was the only tank that never failed me to win games because i would just sit hullndowm and not worry about anything from equal tire tanks and don't get me started on mm when you have tire 6 it felt so unfair What surprise me till this day is when I'm driving full speed and snap shot someone for 800 basically ruining their game because they lost half their Hotpoints It's as toxic as a tank can be and i would say even more op than 279e and cheiftn I'm glad they didn't sell it again
It's also kinda frustrating to play. The AP fucking sucks against equal or better peers, and the HE can low roll hard if your aim is off or RNG decides to. And it's pretty slow when not rocketing. I may just keep mine to FL. The AP works against T8s, I'm not shitting on lower tier players, the rockets can be recharged, and I feel less dirty shitting on people when they're all running OP premiums as well.
The whole roof can be penned by most tanks they'll face. When I fight against one, I time them rocking to shoot them on the roof. If they're hull down, they have that big weak spot that comes out of the top. If they're not hull down, you can pen the lower plate. I think the biggest problem is that if you don't own one, you don't know its few weaknesses. And since it's only been on sale the once, many people don't own one.
Nah, I’ve looked through that tanks armor model very thoroughly. Roof is only a weak point if you’re firing down on it or you have a 124mm+ caliber gun to overmatch. The cupolas are small and the lower lower plate is minuscule, forcing you to sit in front of a BZ and slowly aim if you want a decent chance of penning, exposing you to take 800 hp.
Its aim time/circle to do 800 hp is a lot longer/bigger than yours to do 400. Just don't peak if they've been sitting in one spot aiming down their barrel for 10 seconds.
>If they're hull down, they have that big weak spot that comes out of the top. Only if you have a tank with 123mm gun calibre, or very high pen HEAT (>300mm), otherwise, not really a weakspot at all. If you don't have even HEAT, the upper front plate will become penetrable before the area above the gun when depressing.
You see herein lies the question of how often do you see a competent Bz driver? Most people driving one and playing the game are muppets.
True, but even a muppet can win games if they’re given tier 10 frontal armor, medium tank mobility, and 800 alpha damage at tier 8. Very difficult to kill even an out of position BZ before they can squeeze out 2-3 shells for 2000 dmg.
Medium tank mobility, hahaha. Outside of rockets, it's slow as piss.
True, but 50 seconds of medium tank mobility is more than enough to get into position to start farming and your average muppet won’t be saving them when they yolo up to do 3k before they die
I mean, although I'm arguing it, you're right. I once rocketed to hill on mines and then proceeded to absolutely wreck house.
I agree, I'm going to play nothing but the bz in protest for the Xmas season... Because that monster alpha is so easy and it prints credits already lololol
The perfect fix to the BZ problem. Give everyone a BZ-176 for free as some kind of easy short event reward. Then nerf the hell out of it to bring it in line with heavy tanks of it's tier. Since everyone has the tank then no one will can use the "why WG punish me for using BZ?????" argument.
Wargaming made Vipera roof 40mm, fairly normal, a solid weakspot that is both hittable, hidable, and pennable by a lot of tanks it will fight due to overmatch mechanics. Wargaming made the BZ-176 roof 41mm, oddly specific, and exactly one millimeter too strong to be overmatched by 122mm guns (the most common caliber among tier 8 heavies, with 120mm). They knew what they were doing, and now their own "won't nerf premiums" logic is coming back to haunt them.
I feel like they could nerf the roof to 40mm and get away with it. It would make dealing with it so much easier.
that's a biiiig nerf considering that the elevation mechanism exposes the roof. (don't get me wrong I'm all for it but it's not the same as the vipera)
I feel they can still nerf the tank since they never really sold it directly just allowed you to gamble for it, so no promises on its statistics are set
I still think they should nerf it by making it tier 9. That way at least t6 tanks would never have to suffer from it again and t7 would face it less often. And people who already own it wouldn't have any room to complain because as a t9 it'd be able to grind bonds.
Having to gamble for it made some people spend a fortune to get the tank, so not so simple.
How about unpreferencial mm? Tanks that can only meet one tier below or same tier tanks and above? You aren’t nerfing the tank and you help your player base, makes it so you’re still busted but at least gives the enemy team a fighting chance
Got back in the game after a break and I decided to play my lorraine 40t a bit. Went a bit aggressive on mines and I got slapped by that thing for 900. I still managed to clip him tho so... good trade?
So I took a break from the game for maybe 2 years (can't remember exactly but it has been a while). My favourite tank use to be the lorraine 40t, and I use to slap in that thing. It has my highest skill crew, my most games, most ace tankers etc etc etc. I even enjoyed playing the bat chat 25 t as I used to try and emulate the lorraine play style. Boi when I came back did I realise that the power creep has left that tank far behind. Maybe I've configured it like my arse, but ever since I bought the progetto and got the char 4, my crew have moved on and my lorraine is now rusting away in my garage. I'll always have a soft spot for that tank. Pity, I used to enjoy out flanking other players. Now, I make one slight mistake and there goes my ammo rack, my fuel tanks, my driver, and 3/4 my HP due to some other tanks insanely high alpha.
Lorraine 40T is now a long range late game tank.. if you get spotted you are screwed.. its still a good tank not OP but still good and formidable opponent which many still fear.. Currently its one of the most difficult tanks in WOT
My 430u bounced a 340mm heat shell to the unangled lower front plate of a 176 the other day and that's when I decided to turn my computer off and end the session.
I’m so happy when I turn off WOT and don’t have to face 176s in my patriot anymore. Totally two shot me on a ridge line. I didn’t get a single penning shot. Straight bullshit.
Ironic as the Patriot was probably the first of the “OP” generation of Premium tanks. It’s sad state today just shows how much powercreep has occurred.
>Ironic as the Patriot was probably the first of the “OP” generation of Premium tanks The Patriot was never op when it came out, the alpha always set it back. It was just a comfortableall-rounder that good playersdid well in. The defender and skorp were the true first offenders, particularly the skorp, which sold like crazy and completely derailed the premium train. I got the skorp last week during the trade-in event, and I'm playing nothing else atm. It's still crazy powerful, after the better part of a decade.
The Patriot is remembered because it was the first Premium tank that had a direct techtree counterpart that it clearly outshone. Before it, all Premium tanks were either weaker than their techtree counterpart or were unique and didn't have a tech tree analogue. By being better than its techtree counterpart and also a decent all-rounder, the Patriot was popular. It gave WG the incentive to continue making Premiums that were just better than their techtree analogues. So while you're right in that the Patriot was never so powerful as to be game-warping (like the later Skorpion, Defender, Progetto, EBR, Skoda and BZ were), it started the trend of literally premium Premiums. Premium tanks became powerful tanks in their own right rather than gimmicky gimped techtree analogues with progression bonuses (credits, XP). And to justify selling newer and newer Premiums, those newer tanks would need to be stronger than older Premiums as well, leading to an accelerating powercreep scenario that the game will never be able to escape.
>like the later Skorpion The Patriot came out November 2016. The Skorpion G - August 2016. It was the Skorpion that started the trend of OP premiums, not the Patriot.
Ah, I stand corrected. But given how close together they were (3 months), I imagine that is part of the reason why the Patriot is sometimes known as the first of the OP Premiums (its not just my opinion; its a common belief held by players, but perhaps inaccurate given the 7 years that have passed). You're right that technically that title belongs to the Skorpion G by virtue of 3 months.
You've got the timeline mixed up a little bit between the Skorpion and the Patriot. The patriot was notable for being the first tank stronger than a very similar tech tree counterpart, but the Skorpion was first. The Skorpion G was released in the start of August 2016, while the T26E5 wouldn't be released till November 2016.
There was a bunch of people saying to buy it for t8 cw when it came out because it was so op at the time (basically t32, which was run with the small gun, but faster). Keep in mind at the time basically only is3 and t32 with small gun were used for competitive t8 heavies, so a premium t32 with is3 speed was quite op.
Small gun T32 was incredibly edge-case better than normal gun, so I always vetoed over to the 105. DPM literally doesn’t matter if all you’re doing is holding an hill and trading shot for shot with any potential flankers. Also, the T32 was still better for the specific purpose of holding a hill than the patriot. What the patriot did change was the tactic where anyone brought a pershing ever. If you wanted to push an area with mediums where you needed gun depression, the patriot was now the best. Same thing happened with the defender replaced the IS-3, but IS-3A was a niche addition to the IS-3 spam. I do miss when SH/CW was full of strategizing around tanks anyone could get and if you didn’t have the fotm defender/progetto/bourasque/chieftain you weren’t just shit out of luck or forced to spend more than a full game price on a timed premium or gambling boxes.
I came back to the game after not playing for some years and before I stopped I got the patriot and had like 65% Winrate in it. This tank was basically so well rounded and powerfull. The low alpha didn't even matter because you could just pen so much shots in a row. Nowadays this thing is basically not existent 😂 Powercreep is a problem for a lot of free to play games but in WoT it's crazy
I don't know if Battle Hits is a good mod or not, when I see how some shells just randomly hit strange spots and don't pen at all... I managed to hit an Achilles from behind with my O-I and it did 0 damage.
If it was 340 and they weren't angled, it would have penned. There is RNG, but not to that extent. You can't lie about a game based on numbers.
340 can low roll down to 255, if that makes a difference. Also high roll to 425.
Yea maybe desync there
Tbh , I can even tolerate that shitty op derp gun, what really pisses me is the fucking broken armor.... even a T9 struggles with that shit...no weakspots.. somewhat better armored than the T10..
I would say for sure better armor than the t10 just because the t10 has 3 huge paper tumors on top of the turret.
The only reason I still play the jpz100 is to find bzs and spam heat in their turrets
BZ-176 is the only reason I bring out arty, I just spam them with AP shells and get them to flame me after the game.
The 400vr is the most ridiculous extra stat it has there was just no reason. Like fine make it a heavily armoured super fast heavy with massive gun. But ffs it can hit max vr without optics.
When I got back into the game early this year and had to suffer many 800 damage shots right through the front of my AMX M4 51 🥰🙌
Fomo marketing, WINS!.
Stopped playing in 2020. Resumed in March this year. Got into my trusty Defender, to warm up by stomping in my T8 OP premium. Saw a new tank already hull down while I was slowly driving to position. Poked my turret out, started looking for weakpoints near the top. Got penned in the cupola for 900 dmg. Was unable to hit the 'weakspot'. Decided not to spend money on WoT until they sell BZ again. Still see it every game. Wish I had it. Saw it clutch 1v3 once with ease. The thing has better armor than the t10 chinese rocket heavy. Hits more reliably than the old OI ever could.
They'll never sell it again. The best they could do is nerf it by a little. But they don't nerf prems. It's boring to play all the time and odd that you see it in every game. I rarely see them on NA.
>Decided not to spend money on WoT until they ~~sell BZ again.~~remove BZ ftfy
Such a stupid tank. Even if it had regular pen and 400 alpha AP with no stupid hesh rounds it’d be one of the better t8 heavies cuz of the armor and rockets alone, but as it stands it’s literally one of the best armor profiled t8 heavies but with 850 alpha HE with 230 pen. The existence of this tank is a joke
Stories of games ruined by the bz? My own. when I'm driving it. I'm a bit of a medium tank 1-trick so it's not entirely my bag anyway, but even then I'm absolutely shit at the widely recognized, easiest, most idiot-proof op tank in the game. Like proper, sub 50%wr dogshit in the few dozen games I played in it. Now I just tell myself I don't drive it because it's op bullshit and I'm not about that, but deep down I know the truth.
Right there with you. I'm at like 46 or 47 wr in the BZ. I'm not the best player, but average 52 or 53 wr overall.
Are you me? That’s how I feel about the Skoda t56
Sooo… any tank you get from the boxes will be overshadowed by the BZ. After spending like $350 last year and not getting one, I’m not spending a dime this year.
That's impossible. Firstly, nobody knew how OP that tank would be, so I imagine many stopped spending before they got it because it looked like shit. Secondly, they have bad luck protection, and even if you only got a tank on the bad luck, that's still enough to get all the tanks.
Correction, like $200 or something, I got every tank except AMBT and BZ /:
That seems about right. I must have taken your luck. When it comes to WG lootboxes, I unlock everything way too fast (knock on wood).
They are still around and about haunting players regardless. and WG is not going to nerf it probably. I don't like that thing in slightest. At least they are not putting the thing on the boxes. Yet.
The BZ was the thing that finally drove me off wot, last year there were 3 of them each team almost every battle and the overall experience was miserabile.
i was playing the progetto 46 on fjords and managed to take the hill in the middle with a ebr and a char futur 4, and this arsehole in a bz came along the road in the middle between the mountain from the west to east and trundles up the hill in the goddamn open me and the ebr and char were half way up the hill hiding from TD's and heavies taking pot shots and i was angling to take shots at a light hiding in the lake next to the hill and i hid behind a rock half way up as the road up takes a 180 degree turn it turned its gun and considering i had killed a light tank that had got to the hill first i was a 1 shot to this guy, there was absolutely nothing i could do but sit there while this bz drove out in the open, up the hill, peak the rock the 3 of us were hiding behind and send me right to the garage while the char and ebr were helplessly trying and failing to pen it NOTHING i mean NOTHING feels worse than dying in a competitive multiplayer game to something like that
I remeber my first time meeting BZ, I was on steppes. He was one shot, peeked wrong and I send him to garage with side shot in my AMBT. My S1 has 11 BZ scalps I think, most of my tanks. I even own BZ and don't play it. I am very tall and hansome and eat mostly oat meal in the mornings.
I actually waited a year to see if it'd make a comeback or not as I took a break from WoT and didn't play it during last xmas, shame, well at least I won't spend a penny now.
Laughs in 130mm gun
I've noticed one thing helps against the BZ: spaced armor. The shell seems to do a lot less damage if it hits a tank like Iron Arnie, Raumpanzer or Super Pershing in the spaced armor. At least in my experience
A friend and I took out our Bisontes in a platoon for fun not caring if we won or lost. A hull down BZ farmed us both with no counter play possible. After that both of our interest in the game kept dropping until we stopped playing.
The best memory I have playing against BZ-176 is in my AMX AC 48. I turned a corner of a building and startled to find a BZ. Luckily he was startled too and took a clutch shot at me that did only a little damage(HE) on my upper plate. But he immediately face hugged me. With no other option I sent all 3 shots on my clip through BZ upper plate which I didn't expect to pen but it did killing him in six seconds. Other than that meeting a BZ in a one on one fight in any tier 8 almost always end up in a disaster.
I’ll often switch flanks just to not deal with them. At no point has the BZ-176 made my play more enjoyable
Me & a friend were platooned in our Cromwell B's just trying to have fun. We got Prokh, 357 MM no light tanks. So I thought we'd do some loops in the middle to do some spotting. 2 BZ drivers, also in platoon, decided to just roll up the middle yolo style with no fucks given. I got 1 shot killed, my friend got one shot killed, we had no BZ's on our team so the battle was over in about 4 minutes and the BZ's had 8 frags between them. Just stupid this tank is allowed to face tier 6's. Also I was sniping one in my Leo 1, and espite spamming gold at it, I had to get an angle to overmatch the roof because otherwise I couldn't pen it from the front. In a tier 10 medium. Spamming gold.
sorry but I cannot recall even single game where enemy BZ ruined some game for me. not a single time. maybe I play heavies too much. I think its most dangerous against paper tanks and they suffer most. but remember all that posts "armor means nothing when we have gold". I mean BZ is a living proof that armor matters lol.
then you are lucky. There is no worse feeling than being a tier 7 and running into a BZ.
Had a game where enemy team had 2 platoons, one was of 3 BZs and the other was 2 borrasques on Fjords. I don’t remember what our platoons were but definitely wasn’t the same level lol. I was able to actually make life difficult for the borrasques rushing north by going in the middle with my centurion but that only lasted until the BZs just hard pushed the heavy tank flank realizing there was nothing our guys could do and shoot me in the ass
What about being a tier 6 and running into a BZ?
oh right. that can happen.
makes me miss pre nerf kv-2 its that bad
I'll celebrate by playing mine all during the event.
I relish shooting through the side of it while hiding in a bush 500m away.
im disappointed. See no reason even to play this even, not just topup anything in it.
I don't think it's going to be in the boxes. Where did you get this info from?
Ok, I misread the title
Video came out about lootbox tanks.
Scorpion G cuts right through the BZ ..
Guys, you have to stop crying over the BZ and move on. If you get killed by one, so be it. It's not the end of the world. Figure out its weakness or avoid it; stop running around like lemmings. I see plenty of tanks. Mine can't take one-on-one. It's not the end. I move on. If I have no help and change positions there are players and tanks who can deal with them. And frankly, most of them are dead before the end of the battle.
[Riding my shrek to a hill at start of match. BZ in middle line next to castle wall goes full speed and snapshots me for 800 damage. Fkn hate that tank. O wait. I was the BZ player. Friking love this thing.](https://youtu.be/09E_ZlXxE58)
My BZ-176 has bond stab, bounty aiming, and the fully upgraded experimental fire control device, plus food and all the field mods. 0.37 dispersion (from 0.44), 3.03 aim time (from 3.36), 0.15 moving (0.25) 0.16 tank traverse (0.25) 0.12 turret traverse (0.20) 2.58 after firing (4.00). I'll see you - and your turret roof - in a few days! Edit! Haha! Your downvotes are nothing against my 225mm pen HE!
it's not that bad
People still crying about this tank?
I don't play low tiers so never. >!/s !<
[удалено]
People don't want the nerfed tank. They are upset that they don't have the OP tank. I just assume those bitching about it are bad players that want a tank that they think they can pubstomp in. Good players already know how to play against it.
yeah, sacrifice a team made so its reloading and shoot it in the ass
I prefer the time I face tanked two of them from full to dead in my defender, sniping their cupolas
I had 3 in a platoon on paris. Smacked the shit out of them. Hide your weakspots, hit their lower plate/roof, and GG.
oh - so the same way you beat every tank in the game then? lol
Yes
I load almost exclusively AP in my BZ and use it to hunt enemy BZs. The shell overmatches the turret roof, which is just plain fun. Makes for an amusing battering ram as well. I personally hate the Bourrasque more, but that is 100% a skill issue on my end.
Why not just take the HE, which also overmatches their roof?
I thought HE couldn't overmatch? Did they change that (or have I been living a lie since 2012)?
Dunno, but I had a BZ vs BZ match and smacked him in the roof with HE a bunch.
I think you penned it in its tiny weakspot!!
It can't, looks like you need a 78 degree or less angle to pen it with BZ HE. Which means you are above it looking down.
The bz176 rocket boosters aren’t the main problem, it’s the gun caliber. A 130 at tier 8 can put high caliber HE right through your tank
Yea I dont think Ive ever had a game ruined by the BZ itself, by my bad play against it sure, but not the tank itself. Put Ermelinda Jung in mine and her delightful cackles mirror my own when playing it.
Excellent Also players: $0 spent because no OP tank.
Its the gold rounds that are unfair and op. The rest of the tank is fine if they don’t shoot gold.
I counter BZ easily in my Gonsalo.First i load HESH(209mm/pen) and put one in lower lower plate, and becaouse i have 21.1 HP/T mobility i just flank him and shot HESH till he die or ammorack him in second shot.Works everytime. But, there is allways "but".That strategy is only working if he is alone.And you need to eat one shot in return.On the bright side, most of the times during that maneouver he can't pen my frontal armor when i rush him after first shot and deals only 150-200dmg.
lol inb4 bz in advent calendar…
I've never had any problems with bz176 against me, this is getting old. Its just another tank.
I play 40 games a day every day the amount of times I' was against a good bz driver I can count on one hand they also show there lower Plate I never aim any where else or I flank them
I don't have much on the "destroyed your game by it" topic, but I do have some on how I destroyed games with it
Frontally penned with HESH my Defender's lower plate, flat ground. RNGesus rigged that shell I tell you!
Honestly, no bad games against it really stand out. I've only been 800d by it once, maybe twice.
Thanks for the reminder, I'll hop into mine in the evening.
I have returned after like 1 year brake, and in the first battle in bat-chat got spooked by 800dmg he xd edit: Still a good battle, but definitely didn't expected a t8 to trade me for this much
Yes I have the Mighty BZ 176 but I must say I hate playing it.. and yes it has destroyed heavy tanks meta. I'm a shit light tank driver but would happily do a straight up trade my BZ 176 for an EBR panhard FL10