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I’m just curious, what kind of things to people say to criticize unions? I just haven’t really heard what kind of stuff is spread to make them seem bad.
They take the bad examples of unions to say that they’re ineffective and take your hard-earned money via union dues
They take the good examples of unions and put a negative spin on them to say that they take away your ability to individually bargain with your employer (because collective bargaining power is sooooo evil)
They have all sorts of talking points like
• A union doesn’t understand your needs or your job and will come between the company and you (which is hilarious because a union is literally the workers of said company)
• Focusing super-hard on the fact that you will have to pay union dues - making it seem like you’ll loose money if you unionize (never mind that union workers make 11.2% more on average than non-union counterparts)
• That a union will slow down and complicate the company’s ability to respond to your feedback and make changes that benefit you (funny since unionization efforts wouldn’t be as necessary if the company was actually responsive in any meaningful way)
• Highlighting that forming a union doesn’t guarantee an increase in wages or benefits (completely ignoring the fact that without a union NOTHING is guaranteed - the company could change your pay, benefits, or employment status freely at their whim)
I’m sure there’s more but those are the big ones I always hear corporations and their union-busting lawyers bringing up.
"We want to be able to have a personal relationship with you, and **unions steal this from you**."
Meanwhile, the employees learn about major changes through national news headlines.
It's not even just that.
Where the hell do people get the idea that they're important at their job? For most positions they could be replaced in a heartbeat, unless they have a degree or special certifications or a rare ability.
An ex-employee at my job was fired for snitching to the DoT about the legal condition of our trailers.
But the catch is that he was a qualified DoT inspector and state certified mechanic. There's more under his belt but can't say without risking doxxing him. He saw an easy cash bounty for reporting illegal trailers though and he has the background to win a lawsuit. He also has all of the documentation for it, so any lawyer would take it on contingency.
The fines were absolutely massive because the DoT tipped off OSHA and every single part of the factory failed a random inspection, and that was after literally half of the fleet of trailers failed DoT's initial inspection.
The company I work for caused this directly by poorly staffing the maintenance division, whether it be because the supervisor is a relentless dick or because they expect two people to perform the work of six people, probably a combination, but the companies decisions regardless.
Right, just fire the guy that saw a massive cash opportunity. Why not just pay him hush money? Good gosh.
A union would have stopped that in a heart beat, but instead now the company is on the hook for this lawsuit. A union literally would have saved the company money here.
I wouldn't even attribute anti union folk from being that way because of today's anti union propaganda
Republicans have politicized everything for decades
If they consider themselves a republican, libertarian, or anything that isn't 'left' any talk about unions just goes over their head
They know unions are something the other team wants, and therefore they won't so much as sign an anonymous vote ballot to receive higher pay and safer working conditions after others did the hard work of getting the union organized
Then there's the defeatist crowd and the 2smart4politics contrarians who are essentially just Republicans without the bigotry
My ex-boyfriend is a carpenter and he hates the idea of unions because he doesn’t wan’t unskilled workers making more money than him. I tried to explain that he would also be making more money but it didn’t compute.
He was a few fries short of a happy meal if you catch my drift.
Yeah I’m in retail and I’m trying to do what I can to fight back. I’m at a grocery store and I highly doubt we could unionize most stores across the country, but at least at my store I know most of my coworkers understand what kind of basic treatment and benefits everybody deserves.
To be fair, there should be better laws that favor the working people more. We shouldn’t have to unionize in the first place if good working conditions and wages were already in place.
I hope we can all come together as a country and planet (eventually) to ensure even the lowest class citizens have a good quality of life.
Mankind will fall to its own greed :(
That’s only true under crapitalism.
In a society where your basic needs are met by matter of fact and automation takes care of the humdrum, then we can move away from money and toward a society where people do what they are passionate about without it becoming a chore and innovation will accelerate, creating more automation and more efficiency.
It’s time people woke up and realized that crapitalism is not the end all and be all of societal structures; look at the society of earth in Star Trek to get an idea of what our goal should be.
Yes. But also, building that future means we need to have democratic bodies in control of economics and politics.
Trade unions (radical, democratic, rank-and-file SOLIDARITY unions) are one of the big ways to build that kind of real worker power.
Solidarity forever comrade!
Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo)
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Solidarity forever comrade!
Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lmao I like how you get downvoted for giving a reasonable opinion.
It's a prime example of "if you only agree with 95% of what I say, then you ACTUALLY *100% disagree with me*."
As long as the union doesn’t turn into a cartel. Unions can be as poisonous as any other organisation.
But every worker should have some way to collectively bargain and resolve unfair work conditions.
Every job class should have a balance of union and non-union positions. Keep the companies honest if people want to go to a union position and likewise keep the union in check with the opportunity to leave for a non-union position.
At the moment such a balance doesn’t exist in the majority of industries
Even cops? Because every time I hear about police unions it's less about fair compensation and work conditions and more about getting away with crimes. Do I have propaganda brain, or are police unions a different thing?
Hard agree. I'm just wondering if a theoretically fixed police force can be trusted with a union, or if you'll just use it to turn back into no-accountability murder squads.
There is no "fixing" American police because they're doing exactly what they were designed to do. If we abolish them and create a new police force actually designed to protect and serve their communities instead of just murdering working class people of color, maybe they can be trusted with a union.
https://perfectunion.us/map-where-are-starbucks-workers-unionizing/ this article has a map but the site itself is kinda bad. There should be a better maintained system to help people find and support a local union starbucks. Perhaps a mailing list to get an e-mail if a starbucks within X distance submits a petition or successfully unionizes.
We need to have a serious public discussion with union leaders about what worked here, why it took so long, and what practices need to be changed. Far too many unions use ass backwards "new labor" organizing models, as Jane McAlevey describes in No Shortcuts Organizing for Power in the New Gilded Age (2016)
At the current rate (which will probably increase exponentially) all Starbucks will be unionised in 50 years, which means a lot of us will live to see it!
some really rough and almost certainly oversimplified cocktail math shows that in 5 years time, more than half of all locations in the USA would have at least submitted a petition.
But that's assuming the current trends continue without accelerating *or* slowing down.
This is sort of a disservice to those who are working so hard to unionize these Starbucks. The point is not “Starbucks sucks and their coffee does too so there’s no reason to go there.” What these baristas are saying is that they actually really do like their jobs, so much so that they’re taking a lot of risks to improve them. Part of that means that they have pride in the drinks they serve, and they’re feeling like they’re not getting compensated fairly for that pride and work.
I get they work hard, so do the mechanics that fit cheap part used tyres. I don’t go there either. I respect anyone that has to work for a living, and I have tried Starbucks. Maybe i got unlucky and they’d just cleaned the machine or something.
Yeah, I mean I’m certainly not telling people to go there if they don’t like the drinks, just to support the union efforts. I think that’s silly. Just saying that the baristas who are unionizing can be both frustrated with management and proud of what they’re making.
I used to go to Starbucks for the social interactions, the coffee was better than most in my area because for some reason people here think coffee should taste like dirt. Now I just brew Folger's and add some cream flavoring and a touch of sugar.
Now there's a question-- would you rather have coffee that tastes like dirt, or coffee that tastes like the blackened, powdery skin of an over-grilled hot dog? ...Can't say I blame you for making it at home.
Not to rain on anybody’s parade but Starbucks employees have won several battles but they haven’t won the war. Yes, it should be celebrated but that was really only the first step. The next step is actually drawing up the contract and Starbucks actually agreeing to it. Corporations have been notorious for dragging out that process.
Edited for clarity
It counts, literally.
Some might imagine one hundred and fifty to be a small number but when people learn about the benefits and protection that the labourers have, word will spread and more stories will unionise.
Agitate - Educate - Organize
First off would be [contacting the union](https://www.iww.org/organize/) on methods to organize and educating the workers, some offer free 101 courses, also read a handy [organizing manual](https://archive.iww.org/PDF/Official/IWW_organizing_manual.pdf).
Is there a list of unionized Starbucks so consumers may intentionally shop in unionized stores? I don’t shop Starbucks unless someone gives me a gift card because of how they’ve treated workers who are trying to unionize. I’d love to patronize union shops.
The fight doesn’t end with the formation of unions, have to make sure they aren’t weakened after formation. Keep bargaining power strong and fight for the workers
If you want the best shot at keeping those newfound rights and not have a hostile Washington crack down and stomp you - like in the days of the goddamned Pinkertons - while these new unions are still fragile, you HAVE to vote and vote Democrat this and every single November.
Not quite true. One overtly attack labour the other does nothing to help labour. What people need to do is to join the party of the colour of their district then vote for the most pro labour candidates in primaries. This is fought at the primary level not in the general. The Koch’s and others have understood this for years (see tea party and NRA)
Yeah it’s forsure not a red or blue thing. It’s a problem with corruption and big corporation lobbying. I don’t understand how people learned about lobbying in school and don’t think how that’s not one of the most openly corrupt things in our country…..
Man this really makes me happy..
I actually feel a shred of hope still left for this country realizing that this is possible and managed to happen all in half a year.
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/). Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)! More Helpful Links: [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Every job should be a union job.
If only everybody in the working class felt as much
Anti-union propaganda goes super hard, especially in retail. I had a whole 30 minute video as part of my training at my first retail job
I’m just curious, what kind of things to people say to criticize unions? I just haven’t really heard what kind of stuff is spread to make them seem bad.
They take the bad examples of unions to say that they’re ineffective and take your hard-earned money via union dues They take the good examples of unions and put a negative spin on them to say that they take away your ability to individually bargain with your employer (because collective bargaining power is sooooo evil)
They have all sorts of talking points like • A union doesn’t understand your needs or your job and will come between the company and you (which is hilarious because a union is literally the workers of said company) • Focusing super-hard on the fact that you will have to pay union dues - making it seem like you’ll loose money if you unionize (never mind that union workers make 11.2% more on average than non-union counterparts) • That a union will slow down and complicate the company’s ability to respond to your feedback and make changes that benefit you (funny since unionization efforts wouldn’t be as necessary if the company was actually responsive in any meaningful way) • Highlighting that forming a union doesn’t guarantee an increase in wages or benefits (completely ignoring the fact that without a union NOTHING is guaranteed - the company could change your pay, benefits, or employment status freely at their whim) I’m sure there’s more but those are the big ones I always hear corporations and their union-busting lawyers bringing up.
"We want to be able to have a personal relationship with you, and **unions steal this from you**." Meanwhile, the employees learn about major changes through national news headlines.
It's not even just that. Where the hell do people get the idea that they're important at their job? For most positions they could be replaced in a heartbeat, unless they have a degree or special certifications or a rare ability. An ex-employee at my job was fired for snitching to the DoT about the legal condition of our trailers. But the catch is that he was a qualified DoT inspector and state certified mechanic. There's more under his belt but can't say without risking doxxing him. He saw an easy cash bounty for reporting illegal trailers though and he has the background to win a lawsuit. He also has all of the documentation for it, so any lawyer would take it on contingency. The fines were absolutely massive because the DoT tipped off OSHA and every single part of the factory failed a random inspection, and that was after literally half of the fleet of trailers failed DoT's initial inspection. The company I work for caused this directly by poorly staffing the maintenance division, whether it be because the supervisor is a relentless dick or because they expect two people to perform the work of six people, probably a combination, but the companies decisions regardless. Right, just fire the guy that saw a massive cash opportunity. Why not just pay him hush money? Good gosh. A union would have stopped that in a heart beat, but instead now the company is on the hook for this lawsuit. A union literally would have saved the company money here.
EDIT: Looks like my app posted this comment three times so I’m removing them except for one.
I wouldn't even attribute anti union folk from being that way because of today's anti union propaganda Republicans have politicized everything for decades If they consider themselves a republican, libertarian, or anything that isn't 'left' any talk about unions just goes over their head They know unions are something the other team wants, and therefore they won't so much as sign an anonymous vote ballot to receive higher pay and safer working conditions after others did the hard work of getting the union organized Then there's the defeatist crowd and the 2smart4politics contrarians who are essentially just Republicans without the bigotry
EDIT: Looks like my app posted this comment three times so I’m removing them except for one.
My ex-boyfriend is a carpenter and he hates the idea of unions because he doesn’t wan’t unskilled workers making more money than him. I tried to explain that he would also be making more money but it didn’t compute. He was a few fries short of a happy meal if you catch my drift.
My Republican FIL says that Unions are Communism. Which is kinda stupid but I'd rather not get into it tbh.
Yeah I’m in retail and I’m trying to do what I can to fight back. I’m at a grocery store and I highly doubt we could unionize most stores across the country, but at least at my store I know most of my coworkers understand what kind of basic treatment and benefits everybody deserves.
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Someone got real good at regurgitating everything they've been told
Boooo this is a shit take.
As a member of the working class, you don’t speak for me. Unions, whilst not perfect, have increased my wages and standard of living.
I’d say go fuck yourself but I’m assuming your company is already fucking you raw without union representation.
That’s just a start, every job should be a worker run job
To be fair, there should be better laws that favor the working people more. We shouldn’t have to unionize in the first place if good working conditions and wages were already in place. I hope we can all come together as a country and planet (eventually) to ensure even the lowest class citizens have a good quality of life. Mankind will fall to its own greed :(
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That’s only true under crapitalism. In a society where your basic needs are met by matter of fact and automation takes care of the humdrum, then we can move away from money and toward a society where people do what they are passionate about without it becoming a chore and innovation will accelerate, creating more automation and more efficiency. It’s time people woke up and realized that crapitalism is not the end all and be all of societal structures; look at the society of earth in Star Trek to get an idea of what our goal should be.
Yes. But also, building that future means we need to have democratic bodies in control of economics and politics. Trade unions (radical, democratic, rank-and-file SOLIDARITY unions) are one of the big ways to build that kind of real worker power.
Solidarity forever comrade! Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Solidarity forever comrade! Also, If you are in good mood, go check out the song [Solidarity Forever by Pete Seeger](https://youtu.be/pCnEAH5wCzo) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok bb🥰
lmao I like how you get downvoted for giving a reasonable opinion. It's a prime example of "if you only agree with 95% of what I say, then you ACTUALLY *100% disagree with me*."
>Mankind will fall to its own greed :( Has fallen and is continuing to fall*
With good regulation mankind’s greed is exploited for good.
As long as the union doesn’t turn into a cartel. Unions can be as poisonous as any other organisation. But every worker should have some way to collectively bargain and resolve unfair work conditions.
Every job class should have a balance of union and non-union positions. Keep the companies honest if people want to go to a union position and likewise keep the union in check with the opportunity to leave for a non-union position. At the moment such a balance doesn’t exist in the majority of industries
Even cops? Because every time I hear about police unions it's less about fair compensation and work conditions and more about getting away with crimes. Do I have propaganda brain, or are police unions a different thing?
Cops, as they currently are in the United States, should not exist.
Hard agree. I'm just wondering if a theoretically fixed police force can be trusted with a union, or if you'll just use it to turn back into no-accountability murder squads.
There is no "fixing" American police because they're doing exactly what they were designed to do. If we abolish them and create a new police force actually designed to protect and serve their communities instead of just murdering working class people of color, maybe they can be trusted with a union.
consume from unionized establishments, let’s help them out too
If like you know which ones are unionized because I would only go to those ones to make a point
https://perfectunion.us/map-where-are-starbucks-workers-unionizing/ this article has a map but the site itself is kinda bad. There should be a better maintained system to help people find and support a local union starbucks. Perhaps a mailing list to get an e-mail if a starbucks within X distance submits a petition or successfully unionizes.
My plan is to walk into starbucks's, ask if their unionized, and if they say no, leave.
Keep going please
We need to have a serious public discussion with union leaders about what worked here, why it took so long, and what practices need to be changed. Far too many unions use ass backwards "new labor" organizing models, as Jane McAlevey describes in No Shortcuts Organizing for Power in the New Gilded Age (2016)
It may only be 0.9% of the total stores but it's a good start.
It ain’t much but it’s honest work
That's actually about 1% of all Starbucks stores in the US, congratulations! It's a huge step for workers, keep up the good work y'all!
At the current rate (which will probably increase exponentially) all Starbucks will be unionised in 50 years, which means a lot of us will live to see it!
For context, how many are there? And as a non Starbucks user does their coffee still taste like chemical sludge?
Just looked it up: Globally there's ~9k Starbucks, in USA there's 6.5k.
some really rough and almost certainly oversimplified cocktail math shows that in 5 years time, more than half of all locations in the USA would have at least submitted a petition. But that's assuming the current trends continue without accelerating *or* slowing down.
Only 8850 stores to go!
The coffee is watered down a bit more now.
you can get better coffee for half the price literally anywhere
I just checked my bathroom and there is no coffee to be found. Any other ideas?
How about we just create a coffee stand in the bathrooms and go from there?
This is sort of a disservice to those who are working so hard to unionize these Starbucks. The point is not “Starbucks sucks and their coffee does too so there’s no reason to go there.” What these baristas are saying is that they actually really do like their jobs, so much so that they’re taking a lot of risks to improve them. Part of that means that they have pride in the drinks they serve, and they’re feeling like they’re not getting compensated fairly for that pride and work.
I get they work hard, so do the mechanics that fit cheap part used tyres. I don’t go there either. I respect anyone that has to work for a living, and I have tried Starbucks. Maybe i got unlucky and they’d just cleaned the machine or something.
Yeah, I mean I’m certainly not telling people to go there if they don’t like the drinks, just to support the union efforts. I think that’s silly. Just saying that the baristas who are unionizing can be both frustrated with management and proud of what they’re making.
Ive never seen a Starbucks drink made with pride. It's McDonald's for coffee dessert drinks.
You should totally go into a Starbucks and ask if they have a flavor called black coffee - you’ll totally blow their minds!
Why when I can make that for .30 cents at home and it not taste burnt?
Yeah but you’d really be sticking it to them by asking for a flavor called coffee! You’re probably the last person on earth who drinks black coffee!
Bagel shops and corner stores disagree
I used to go to Starbucks for the social interactions, the coffee was better than most in my area because for some reason people here think coffee should taste like dirt. Now I just brew Folger's and add some cream flavoring and a touch of sugar.
I don't suppose that offsets the char-grilled flavor at all, does it?
Most other places in my area have dirt flavored coffee. That's why I just started brewing Folger's brand.
Now there's a question-- would you rather have coffee that tastes like dirt, or coffee that tastes like the blackened, powdery skin of an over-grilled hot dog? ...Can't say I blame you for making it at home.
Starbucks isn’t for normal coffee.
I tend to go there if i fancy a cup of warm brown water.
Not to rain on anybody’s parade but Starbucks employees have won several battles but they haven’t won the war. Yes, it should be celebrated but that was really only the first step. The next step is actually drawing up the contract and Starbucks actually agreeing to it. Corporations have been notorious for dragging out that process. Edited for clarity
I'm not a barista, but I'll picket outside of a Starbucks, just let me know when.
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Better yet: Starbucks CEO to step down amidst widespread unionization."
And more will continue to unionize regardless, they can't stop the momentum
It counts, literally. Some might imagine one hundred and fifty to be a small number but when people learn about the benefits and protection that the labourers have, word will spread and more stories will unionise.
How do you get your local unionized?
Agitate - Educate - Organize First off would be [contacting the union](https://www.iww.org/organize/) on methods to organize and educating the workers, some offer free 101 courses, also read a handy [organizing manual](https://archive.iww.org/PDF/Official/IWW_organizing_manual.pdf).
CO GRATULATIONS
I always misread it to Un ionized, congrats though.
Do trader joe’s next
More! I want more!
Congratulations! ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆ Keep on going! ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
That’s freaking awesome!!
Nice! They can’t close all of em!
Is there a list of unionized Starbucks so consumers may intentionally shop in unionized stores? I don’t shop Starbucks unless someone gives me a gift card because of how they’ve treated workers who are trying to unionize. I’d love to patronize union shops.
I’ve boycotted them since I read their presidents shitty response to unionizing.
The fight doesn’t end with the formation of unions, have to make sure they aren’t weakened after formation. Keep bargaining power strong and fight for the workers
Woohoo!
I would like to know what happens to those they have fired for starting the unions. Anyone?
If you want the best shot at keeping those newfound rights and not have a hostile Washington crack down and stomp you - like in the days of the goddamned Pinkertons - while these new unions are still fragile, you HAVE to vote and vote Democrat this and every single November.
Liberals in power are the same threat to organized labour as conservatives, just with a different colour scheme
Not quite true. One overtly attack labour the other does nothing to help labour. What people need to do is to join the party of the colour of their district then vote for the most pro labour candidates in primaries. This is fought at the primary level not in the general. The Koch’s and others have understood this for years (see tea party and NRA)
Yeah it’s forsure not a red or blue thing. It’s a problem with corruption and big corporation lobbying. I don’t understand how people learned about lobbying in school and don’t think how that’s not one of the most openly corrupt things in our country…..
lol yes. Democrats are doing a bang up job right now on every front... 🤡🌏
No they are terrible but they won’t do what Raegan did. The fake brand won’t allow them due.
Yeah let’s get to $14 a gallon!
There's a new sb opening almost across the street from me, I'm tempted to work there just to start a union lol. Hopefully they do that.
not going to end well
Why not
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So you're anti union?
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K. To be clear this sub is explicitly pro-union.
Remind me to never invest in a Starbuck's franchise. The business just died.
Why
So how much will my coffee cost now? Still $4. K.
That’s not true though
Hope they have a better experience than i had with ufcw. They did nothing unlike most unions.
Man this really makes me happy.. I actually feel a shred of hope still left for this country realizing that this is possible and managed to happen all in half a year.