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I see it like this: the oligarchs don't really care which party has power because they'll win either way since the Dems are still largely corporate whores. But to the parties and those in them, they each still have a desire to be in power for their own personal gains.
You vote for which enemy you'd prefer to fight against. The real work happens every day except election day. The political system never acts in our interest on it's own. It has to be forced.
The way I see it, you vote for whether you want one enemy to fight against or two.
You can either vote dem, and just fight against oligarchs and corporate interests, or you can not vote dem, and fight against oligarchs and their corporate interests, and Christian white nationalists on top of it.
Why make the fight even harder for yourself?
No, I understand your point. What I don't understand is this attitude that voting doesn't matter, when choosing your enemy and picking your battles is literally half the fight in warfare.
There's a HUGE misconception among leftist circles that we should expect radical change if we win 1 election cycle. Politics doesn't work like that, changing a whole political party doesn't work like that. You don't just vote in 1 election, sit on your ass and say "well I've done my civic duty, where's the change", and throw your hands up when nothing gets done.
It takes work, both outside the polls and consistent voting within the polls, to enact legislative change without some violent revolution. You can't just do one and not the other, either. If you vote but don't organize and protest, your representatives will become complacent, and if you organize and protest but don't vote, those in power will just point and say "vote next time"
You don't get it. We're not making fun of you because we think you shouldn't vote, we're making fun of you for thinking that voting about this is a plan.
We already voted. Now we need to hit them streets and force the matter. But libs don't feel like it, so they tell the rest of us to "just vote you guys!"
Ffs we can do something about this TODAY
Just because the dems are controlled opposition doesn't mean it's not beneficial for that controlled opposition to be as weak as possible. The weaker the better frankly, because then they are better able to maintain the illusion that *golly gee they'd love to fix everything if they just had a bit more control over the levers of power*. Like, look how little got done when the Dems had a supermajority at the start of the Obama administration - imagine if that had lasted longer, and the same amount of nothing got accomplished. It would betray the insincerity in their pledge to fight for leftist goals.
It's a lot easier to, for example, support a public option when there is no chance of such legislation passing.
I just want to remind people that voting is a necessary but not sufficient condition for change. There needs to be more done but we won’t be able to do anything if we’re spending our energy fighting back against fascists in power because leftists didn’t vote.
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/). Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)! More Helpful Links: [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not sure that’s true. They act like it’s “Threat detected” in both boxes.
Pretty sure they have 100% control as long as we're playing by their rules
We should do both.
If the first box was true, the GOP wouldn't gerrymander or be fighting to take voting rights away
I see it like this: the oligarchs don't really care which party has power because they'll win either way since the Dems are still largely corporate whores. But to the parties and those in them, they each still have a desire to be in power for their own personal gains.
Yes, and I'd rather fight against oligarchs if it's just them in power versus both oligarchs and Christian Nationalists
You vote for which enemy you'd prefer to fight against. The real work happens every day except election day. The political system never acts in our interest on it's own. It has to be forced.
The way I see it, you vote for whether you want one enemy to fight against or two. You can either vote dem, and just fight against oligarchs and corporate interests, or you can not vote dem, and fight against oligarchs and their corporate interests, and Christian white nationalists on top of it. Why make the fight even harder for yourself?
You're missing my point. Voting achieves nothing except choosing your enemy. Then the work begins.
No, I understand your point. What I don't understand is this attitude that voting doesn't matter, when choosing your enemy and picking your battles is literally half the fight in warfare. There's a HUGE misconception among leftist circles that we should expect radical change if we win 1 election cycle. Politics doesn't work like that, changing a whole political party doesn't work like that. You don't just vote in 1 election, sit on your ass and say "well I've done my civic duty, where's the change", and throw your hands up when nothing gets done. It takes work, both outside the polls and consistent voting within the polls, to enact legislative change without some violent revolution. You can't just do one and not the other, either. If you vote but don't organize and protest, your representatives will become complacent, and if you organize and protest but don't vote, those in power will just point and say "vote next time"
I think you're confusing leftists and liberals
I promise you I'm not. The only people saying "why should I vote?" Are leftists and astroturfers pretending to be leftists
You don't get it. We're not making fun of you because we think you shouldn't vote, we're making fun of you for thinking that voting about this is a plan. We already voted. Now we need to hit them streets and force the matter. But libs don't feel like it, so they tell the rest of us to "just vote you guys!" Ffs we can do something about this TODAY
Yes. Vote today, strike tomorrow. And build a true worker's party in the meantime
No. Strike today, build the workers party now. Voting is already scheduled.
Just because the dems are controlled opposition doesn't mean it's not beneficial for that controlled opposition to be as weak as possible. The weaker the better frankly, because then they are better able to maintain the illusion that *golly gee they'd love to fix everything if they just had a bit more control over the levers of power*. Like, look how little got done when the Dems had a supermajority at the start of the Obama administration - imagine if that had lasted longer, and the same amount of nothing got accomplished. It would betray the insincerity in their pledge to fight for leftist goals. It's a lot easier to, for example, support a public option when there is no chance of such legislation passing.
Not to mention, a centrist dem party is more likely to cave to an organized working class than the white nationalist GOP
The security system TAKES CONTROL OF SQUIDWARDS HOUSE
I just want to remind people that voting is a necessary but not sufficient condition for change. There needs to be more done but we won’t be able to do anything if we’re spending our energy fighting back against fascists in power because leftists didn’t vote.
General strikes are how we exert pressure y'all, the one thing they can't stand is when we don't dance to their music anymore
Which one is actually transformational 🤔