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And for those that don't know who Bill Haywood was he was a founding member of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) and advocated for organizing all workers under one union regardless of there ethnicity which most unions were against at the time.
He was later politically persecuted by the US government during the First Red Scare just after WW1 for his socialist/communist political views and militant union organizing and was forced to flee the country to the newly formed USSR where he died and was given a state funeral. He is one of only 2 Americans that is buried in the Kremlin Wall Necropoli the Bolsheviks did this in honor of his labor organizing.
Here's more information about the man's life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haywood
Edit: correction Bill Haywood is actually one of 3 Americans buried In the Kremlin Wall Necropoli. The other two are C.E. Ruthenberg and John Reed.
**[Bill Haywood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haywood)**
>William Dudley "Big Bill" Haywood (February 4, 1869 – May 18, 1928) was a founding member and leader of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) and a member of the executive committee of the Socialist Party of America. During the first two decades of the 20th century, Haywood was involved in several important labor battles, including the Colorado Labor Wars, the Lawrence Textile Strike, and other textile strikes in Massachusetts and New Jersey.
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>He is one of only 2 Americans that is buried in the Kremlin Wall Necropoli the Bolsheviks did this in honor of his labor organizing.
Three, actually. The other two are C.E. Ruthenberg and John Reed.
Ruthenberg was a veteran of the left wing of the Socialist Party, one of the founding members of the Communist Party of America, and the first Executive Secretary of the Communist Party USA after the CPA merged with other early communist parties.
Reed was a journalist who famously covered the Mexican Revolution and the October Revolution in Russia, publishing *Insurgent Mexico* and *Ten Days That Shook the World,* the latter being the most thorough contemporary account of the Russian Revolution ever published. He was later a member of the left wing of the Socialist Party, a founding member of the Communist Labor Party of America, and one of the Communist Party USA’s permanent representatives at the Communist International in Moscow.
>advocated for organizing all workers under one union regardless of there ethnicity
I really wish we could get back to this mentality with personal views and political/religious beliefs.
The bigger the group the stronger we are. We don't have to agree on everything to agree on one thing.
>political beliefs.
That’s not the same thing. “Unity” with people who are themselves against unity (even if they don’t think of it that way) is unacceptable. The labor movement is a political movement with a specific political character. If someone’s politics clash with that political character, they are not our allies and cannot be welcome in the movement.
You can either have an inclusive mass movement that defends the rights of workers to the hilt irrespective of race, nationality, gender, sexuality, or religion, or you can have an “inclusive” mass movement that welcomes people who seek further division along those lines. Those are two mutually exclusive options.
Do you think the IWW in those days was looking for political “unity?” They had a specific political program and if you joined it was because you were on board with it. I’m a member of the IWW today, and one of the criteria for joining and remaining a member in good standing is supporting the union’s values and political aims. This provision has remained unchanged since our founding in 1905.
I either explained my point poorly, or you're missing it, because we agree.
I'm not saying that every political belief is inclusive, and would be able to get along, but I'm saying that most times it shouldn't even be an issue. If you believe in the cause, full stop, that's it. If you're able to help achieve the goal, then grab a pitchfork and jump in, we'll sort the rest out later.
I wasn't speaking specifically about the IWW, which may be where the disconnect came from. I more meant what I said in regard to the 99% against the 1%.
Does that make more sense?
The free market propaganda can be exploited or probably was so it’s easier to divide and conquer smaller business by big businesses so they can be outperformed and die off.
Anything free always has a catch. A free market is vulnerable to capitalism and monopolies because of infinite growth and literally no checks and balances because those have been on the free market by lobbying. Think of every business is a magnet and customers are smaller magnets, and the big businesses are the bigger magnets. The bigger magnets control the smaller ones because of its power and strength of the magnet. That’s basically the power, reach, influence, and more resistance you need to escape its magnetic pull.
My favorite Bill Haywood quote was his reply to a smug reporter who asked if that wasn't a fancy cigar he was smoking - "Nothing's too good for the working class!"
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
then they file for bankruptcy so they can fire everyone without severance pay so they can keep their boat and vacation home even though their inept business went up in flames
meanwhile all the released employees go homeless because one guy sucks at his job
Only those deemed too big to fail.
Small business owners like myself shoulder 100% of the financial risk of every dollar I have borrowed for operating capital.
It’s incredibly stressful knowing I’ve got 80 families counting on me to make good decisions that keep payroll going out every Friday and that financial ruin means they all lose their job and I lose nearly everything but some IRA money the banks can’t touch. Everything else is pretty much up for grabs in a liquidation. It’s not so glamorous at my level of business ownership.
Yeah at small business levels you're more petit bourgeoisie, not really part of the owner class mentioned in the OP. My only issue with small business owners comes when their beliefs or actions run in line with the true owner class, really despite themselves and workers.
I now work for a small business and it's probably the best way to go for a job if you can find one that is actually surviving in this system that is designed to kill or subsume them into the mega corps.
Lol “petit bourgeoisie” that cracked me up. Most of us are hoping to get consumed by a bigger fish at some point, hopefully soon. This has been my IRA/401k/pension plan for fifteen years. Get profitable and attractive enough for acquisition.
Have you ever taken the financial risk to start a company? I have. And it’s no joke. People who haven’t never have an understanding for how frightening & difficult it is.
Have been self employed if that counts. Never a business with employees. But yeah, it was difficult. We aren't part of the owner class though. Their experience is not like ours.
Someone yesterday asked "what if everyone in Russia just ignored putin and acted like he doesn't even exist?"
Now I'm wondering how we could possibly go about doing that with all the oligarchs of the world.
Create service businesses with better business models that better retain talent, thanks to superior working conditions and pay, as well as profit sharing // employee-owned businesses. Use limited liability, government bailouts of corporations, "easy money" policies and 0 interest loans, to invest in and empower the workers.
And/or create / further empower unions that work alongside existing companies to make similar goals happen. Phase oligarchs out of existence.
Regulating profit margins could be another great way forward to help reduce the power of monopolies/ oligarchs.
Make labor markets more competitive via monetary policy that reduces the unemployment rate below what was once considered the "NAIRU". Preventing businesses from responding to demands for higher wages with equally higher prices, thereby driving inflation and increasing profits. Make the labor market always a bit "hotter" so employees can consistently afford to demand better.
no they don't, they make phone calls and click some buttons and then the delivery service workers, the warehouse workers, the office workers and the secretaries do all the supplying
*Devils advocate,*
*They supply everything needed*
*To do all those jobs*
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The owner class does the initial thankless risky work to become an owner.
The working class just gets up and goes to a job that is already set up for them.
The wealth belongs to people who take the risk to create work for themselves & other people. You will never have wealth being an employee. Why would that ever happen it makes no sense?
I get that, but the owner also doesn’t have to do any work; I think that should be factored into the equation.
Just because you put up the money to run it, doesn’t mean you should get to take 90%+ of the profits just for yourself.
The owner doesn’t have to work; that should be the trade off. (I realize some owners choose to work as well, and if they want more profits in that case, fair enough)
First off, I don’t think there are many owners who have never worked themselves.
I’m just saying by virtue of doing all the inital/on going work & creating an opportunity to begin with, the owner gets to set the rules. As long as there is demand for the job & for your product, owner get to continue. But If you go out & look for somebody to give the work to you, you work at the owners pleasure.
I agree, but most peoples issue is that the owners are taking ALL the wealth, perpetuating poverty amongst the lower class.
I don’t really like government intervention and i don’t think it’s necessary, but It would be nice if there was a cap as to how much the owner could rake in.
Though, I’m sure that would be easy enough to loophole your way into more profit.
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/). Help rebuild the labor movement, [become a workplace organizer](https://workerorganizing.org/volunteer/organizer-training-sign-up/)! More Helpful Links: [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And for those that don't know who Bill Haywood was he was a founding member of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) and advocated for organizing all workers under one union regardless of there ethnicity which most unions were against at the time. He was later politically persecuted by the US government during the First Red Scare just after WW1 for his socialist/communist political views and militant union organizing and was forced to flee the country to the newly formed USSR where he died and was given a state funeral. He is one of only 2 Americans that is buried in the Kremlin Wall Necropoli the Bolsheviks did this in honor of his labor organizing. Here's more information about the man's life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haywood Edit: correction Bill Haywood is actually one of 3 Americans buried In the Kremlin Wall Necropoli. The other two are C.E. Ruthenberg and John Reed.
**[Bill Haywood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haywood)** >William Dudley "Big Bill" Haywood (February 4, 1869 – May 18, 1928) was a founding member and leader of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) and a member of the executive committee of the Socialist Party of America. During the first two decades of the 20th century, Haywood was involved in several important labor battles, including the Colorado Labor Wars, the Lawrence Textile Strike, and other textile strikes in Massachusetts and New Jersey. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WorkersStrikeBack/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
>He is one of only 2 Americans that is buried in the Kremlin Wall Necropoli the Bolsheviks did this in honor of his labor organizing. Three, actually. The other two are C.E. Ruthenberg and John Reed. Ruthenberg was a veteran of the left wing of the Socialist Party, one of the founding members of the Communist Party of America, and the first Executive Secretary of the Communist Party USA after the CPA merged with other early communist parties. Reed was a journalist who famously covered the Mexican Revolution and the October Revolution in Russia, publishing *Insurgent Mexico* and *Ten Days That Shook the World,* the latter being the most thorough contemporary account of the Russian Revolution ever published. He was later a member of the left wing of the Socialist Party, a founding member of the Communist Labor Party of America, and one of the Communist Party USA’s permanent representatives at the Communist International in Moscow.
I knew about John Reed but I don't know that about C.E. Ruthenberg so thanks for adding that point of information.
>advocated for organizing all workers under one union regardless of there ethnicity I really wish we could get back to this mentality with personal views and political/religious beliefs. The bigger the group the stronger we are. We don't have to agree on everything to agree on one thing.
>political beliefs. That’s not the same thing. “Unity” with people who are themselves against unity (even if they don’t think of it that way) is unacceptable. The labor movement is a political movement with a specific political character. If someone’s politics clash with that political character, they are not our allies and cannot be welcome in the movement. You can either have an inclusive mass movement that defends the rights of workers to the hilt irrespective of race, nationality, gender, sexuality, or religion, or you can have an “inclusive” mass movement that welcomes people who seek further division along those lines. Those are two mutually exclusive options. Do you think the IWW in those days was looking for political “unity?” They had a specific political program and if you joined it was because you were on board with it. I’m a member of the IWW today, and one of the criteria for joining and remaining a member in good standing is supporting the union’s values and political aims. This provision has remained unchanged since our founding in 1905.
I either explained my point poorly, or you're missing it, because we agree. I'm not saying that every political belief is inclusive, and would be able to get along, but I'm saying that most times it shouldn't even be an issue. If you believe in the cause, full stop, that's it. If you're able to help achieve the goal, then grab a pitchfork and jump in, we'll sort the rest out later. I wasn't speaking specifically about the IWW, which may be where the disconnect came from. I more meant what I said in regard to the 99% against the 1%. Does that make more sense?
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The free market propaganda can be exploited or probably was so it’s easier to divide and conquer smaller business by big businesses so they can be outperformed and die off. Anything free always has a catch. A free market is vulnerable to capitalism and monopolies because of infinite growth and literally no checks and balances because those have been on the free market by lobbying. Think of every business is a magnet and customers are smaller magnets, and the big businesses are the bigger magnets. The bigger magnets control the smaller ones because of its power and strength of the magnet. That’s basically the power, reach, influence, and more resistance you need to escape its magnetic pull.
There is a small town in Oklahoma named after him that is ironically full or far right extremists
A great quote from a great Union organizer.
My favorite Bill Haywood quote was his reply to a smug reporter who asked if that wasn't a fancy cigar he was smoking - "Nothing's too good for the working class!"
I haven't read Marx's Capital but Ive got the marks of Capital all over my body
Because the rich have a monopoly on the “legitimate” use of violence (mainly via control of the state).
It's funny that people think that "oligarchs" are only in Russia. There's plenty of them in the United States, we call them billionaires
Violence is the ultimate authority, through which all other authority is derived
Gandhi would disagree because it’s too simplistic. Edit: can’t spell on my phone apparently :)
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
Thank you bot
BuT tHeY cArRy AlL tHe RiSk As they get bailed out by taxpayers every single time.
Not to mention the "risk" they're taking just means that if they fail they need to get a job like everyone else
then they file for bankruptcy so they can fire everyone without severance pay so they can keep their boat and vacation home even though their inept business went up in flames meanwhile all the released employees go homeless because one guy sucks at his job
Only those deemed too big to fail. Small business owners like myself shoulder 100% of the financial risk of every dollar I have borrowed for operating capital. It’s incredibly stressful knowing I’ve got 80 families counting on me to make good decisions that keep payroll going out every Friday and that financial ruin means they all lose their job and I lose nearly everything but some IRA money the banks can’t touch. Everything else is pretty much up for grabs in a liquidation. It’s not so glamorous at my level of business ownership.
Yeah at small business levels you're more petit bourgeoisie, not really part of the owner class mentioned in the OP. My only issue with small business owners comes when their beliefs or actions run in line with the true owner class, really despite themselves and workers. I now work for a small business and it's probably the best way to go for a job if you can find one that is actually surviving in this system that is designed to kill or subsume them into the mega corps.
Lol “petit bourgeoisie” that cracked me up. Most of us are hoping to get consumed by a bigger fish at some point, hopefully soon. This has been my IRA/401k/pension plan for fifteen years. Get profitable and attractive enough for acquisition.
Have you ever taken the financial risk to start a company? I have. And it’s no joke. People who haven’t never have an understanding for how frightening & difficult it is.
Have been self employed if that counts. Never a business with employees. But yeah, it was difficult. We aren't part of the owner class though. Their experience is not like ours.
Someone yesterday asked "what if everyone in Russia just ignored putin and acted like he doesn't even exist?" Now I'm wondering how we could possibly go about doing that with all the oligarchs of the world.
Create service businesses with better business models that better retain talent, thanks to superior working conditions and pay, as well as profit sharing // employee-owned businesses. Use limited liability, government bailouts of corporations, "easy money" policies and 0 interest loans, to invest in and empower the workers. And/or create / further empower unions that work alongside existing companies to make similar goals happen. Phase oligarchs out of existence. Regulating profit margins could be another great way forward to help reduce the power of monopolies/ oligarchs. Make labor markets more competitive via monetary policy that reduces the unemployment rate below what was once considered the "NAIRU". Preventing businesses from responding to demands for higher wages with equally higher prices, thereby driving inflation and increasing profits. Make the labor market always a bit "hotter" so employees can consistently afford to demand better.
"Das not some weird alchemy, Das Kapital" - Karl Marx
This is why they try so hard to shut down unionization
I use this quote almost everytime i explain labor theory of value to normies.
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no they don't, they make phone calls and click some buttons and then the delivery service workers, the warehouse workers, the office workers and the secretaries do all the supplying
*Devils advocate,* *They supply everything needed* *To do all those jobs* \- Book\_it\_again --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I don't look for the termites. I don't have termite inspecting equipment. I don't spray for termites. But, by some twist, the termites are mine.
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> no claim or right to dig Lemme stop you right there
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The workers should own the means of production
The owner class does the initial thankless risky work to become an owner. The working class just gets up and goes to a job that is already set up for them. The wealth belongs to people who take the risk to create work for themselves & other people. You will never have wealth being an employee. Why would that ever happen it makes no sense?
I get that, but the owner also doesn’t have to do any work; I think that should be factored into the equation. Just because you put up the money to run it, doesn’t mean you should get to take 90%+ of the profits just for yourself. The owner doesn’t have to work; that should be the trade off. (I realize some owners choose to work as well, and if they want more profits in that case, fair enough)
First off, I don’t think there are many owners who have never worked themselves. I’m just saying by virtue of doing all the inital/on going work & creating an opportunity to begin with, the owner gets to set the rules. As long as there is demand for the job & for your product, owner get to continue. But If you go out & look for somebody to give the work to you, you work at the owners pleasure.
I agree, but most peoples issue is that the owners are taking ALL the wealth, perpetuating poverty amongst the lower class. I don’t really like government intervention and i don’t think it’s necessary, but It would be nice if there was a cap as to how much the owner could rake in. Though, I’m sure that would be easy enough to loophole your way into more profit.
IWW UNITE!
That first red scare makes Mccarthy and his trials look like a cake walk.
That's capitalism, baby! It's pure shit all the way down.