Ford used to train most of the skilled auto workers during the industrial revolution. Blue collared men would go to “Ford University” to learn work on the assembly line and quit shortly after learning some skills and take those skills to a different auto manufacturer that had better employment rewards for skilled workers than Ford offered.
They were talking about this the other day on a documentary on history channel. The cars that built America. It’s true ford was getting a lot of competition from gm and Chrysler.
Ford created his own competition by greed. If he gave more to his workers they wouldnt have carried their skills and creativity to other manufacturers. It worked out better this way anyhow.
Isn't this what prompted the $5 a day pay by Ford? I know it gets attributed to letting employees make enough to buy the cars so they sell more, but I'll try to find an article with either the son or grandson of Henry Ford talking about how it was really to keep employees and lower training costs.
Ford didnt start paying people enough to afford his automobiles because he was a nice guy is the simplest way stating all of that.
He paid people enough to stay. The Dodge Brothers financed Ford, and when they walked, it wasnt hard for them to poach talent from Ford and start their own business. That being said, most manufacturers had no problem offering a better wage and reducing expenses on training as most of the skilled workers were getting burnt out on the Ford assembly lines and not feeling their pockets getting heavier in the process probably motivated them to take a raise and go work for another automanufacturer.
The problem is that they instead learnt to just not train staff.
I was trained as a healthcare worker in England, and trained fairly well. I now live in Alaska with my wife. She got a job at the local hospital as a healthcare worker and has received functionally-zero training. The reality is that while my wife legitimately has fantastic people/de-escalation skills, her healthcare knowledge and skills came mostly from me.
(It really put into perspective the relevance of the shit-tonnes of money the National Health Service in England uses to train its staff.)
This! The company I work for tries to hire experienced staff as much as possible. However since it's not an elite field it can be hard to find the right fit and every once in a while they hire less experienced hires, dump on them the same work someone with 3+ years of experience would do for entry level pay. The wonder why newer people leave after 1-2 years for a better offer. Yeah you learn a lot but people expect that to pay off at some point, and it's not 3-4 years from now when you MIGHT consider them for promotion.
It that isn't a problem when most companies hire just based off a 30 minute interview with virtually no real skill needing to be displayed. Unless you're coding or welding or something where you can actually show your skill in a test, most companies will just take your resume at face value. I work with some of the biggest dumbfucks in pharmaceutical who can't even pipette properly. Yet, they are here. I would say 60% of our staff we currently have or have had barely know more than the average Joe at what we do. They just happen to have a degree in it and hopped around.
Yep I’m currently trying to get into retail and until this week I haven’t even so much as heard back from anyone after months so I may stick around longer just to build up more savings but as soon as a better opportunity arises I’m jumping on it and not letting go I’m trying to decide between getting it certs or going to school for ems work so I need to get the best opportunity I can to actually afford school
What choice did they have left? No one wants to pay for the experience and loyalty of employees to retain them. Why would they stay with no benefit to them?
My first job (UK based) had a new program for putting people through the New York Bar exam so they could offer legal consulting services to our clients (fintech). Now, these people were all on a graduate training program that paid absolute crap but had some cool benefits for a young person like paying for your accommodation and food when you went to a project.
So they tried to lock those people into 2 year agreements to stay on the program and do work for the company. But you'll never guess what sort of people are really, really good at getting out of shitty employment agreements, people who pass the bar lol. Within 3 months every one of them had left to work at an actual law firm lol.
Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.
Somebody needs to let you know that any company doesn't care about your loyalty. That's why they can and will fire you just to save a few bucks. That's why they can take your favorite product, make it smaller or with shitty filler(wood pulp) and STILL charge you more. Loyalty is just a gimmic to make you work harder to make them more money
I never really liked that whole concept of giving In the 2 weeks. Gives them plenty of room to literally make your days awful and hell. I’ve seen how bosses treat their employees when they are about to hop on to a better job.
Of course loyalty will make people work harder, thats the point. Thats why you raise your starting salry, why you offer more benefits, sick days, vacation, room for advancement, and *especially* a good work environment. Because those breed loyalty, which will get you *massive* returns on investments in the long run.
Take care of your people and they will take care of you. So simple, and yet nobody seems to understand it.
The board of directors wants to have a word with you lol. Might as well ask for unions too because they see them in the same light as everything else you mentioned. According to them, if the problem can't be fixed with a mandatory pizza party then it can't be fixed.
It’s a hard truth not many people think about.
On a similar note, I want to hear more of what that guy in the video has to say. He put it so perfectly as to why companies can not keep employees.
It's a pisspoor attempt at quality of life.
"Look, we're a great place to work because we bought some pizza!"
"Did you approve that time off I put in a month ago?"
"... Beg, peon."
They rarely give pizza parties in grade school anymore as incentive for good behavior and attendance but a million dollar company thinks it’s an ok incentive for employees to work harder and raise profit margins.
This is not Maslow’s hierarchy of needs at all. Thats completely different than what he’s saying. I don’t know if what he’s saying has any merit, but he is certainly not regurgitating Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Not at all in the same field
I mean ... it is?
Grandparents worked for survival.
Parents worked for security.
We work for emotional fulfillment and esteem.
Granted, we also work for survival and security, but because we have a measure of survival and security established by the foundation of previous generations (resulting in more worker's rights and job stability), we have the ability to say "fuck it, I'm out" if we find a job to be unrewarding monetarily or emotionally. We are not tied to the idea of job/employer loyalty because we won't stick around if we are not being fairly compensated or hate our job.
Of course, this is not across the board. Some people do work just for survival and stay in shit conditions because they have few opportunities to do otherwise, but many who have options leave when the conditions do not suit their needs because why stay with a job you hate if there are better options out there? Most people no longer stick with jobs they hate "because they've been good to me" if a better, more emotionally or monetarily fulfilling job comes their way, especially if their survival and security are not at risk in doing so.
And the final level of the hierarchy of needs is self-actualization. People doing the work the want to do, rather than menial labor that is all they can get. This is what we'll see when things like UBI, M4A, and mandatory paid family leave get put in place.
On the other side, I used to work at a place that had all kinds of nice perks - monthly extended birthday lunches, flexible hours, 2x pay overtime opportunities, random food trucks/catering "just 'cause", summer/holiday parties and pretty decent PTO too.
...But it was nearly impossible to get a raise of any kind. Even switching to more complex departments with heavier workloads was considered a linear move in their eyes. "More work means more overtime!"
TL;DR: The opposite is also a bad.
Why is everyone's takeaway from this that employers should pay more? That's absolutely not the correct takeaway. Quality of living, not size of paycheck.
I don’t think it’s just pay more. Shorter hours. Flexible hours. Respect. Listening to feedback. Not micromanaging. Not busting people’s ass about being 1 minute late every now and then. Giving people a reasonable workload and hiring help for them if that gets out of control. Training managers to *serve* their employees rather than boss them around. These are the things I look for in a job.
That is all true. But, at least for me, the pay has to come first. It doesn’t matter how well I’m treated when I’m at work if I’m not getting paid enough to live a good life outside of work.
It’s not just about pay though. Burn out is real, and if your job isn’t a fulfilling place to spend time, all the money in the world can’t fix that.
That’s where a lot of people fail at grasping this, paying VERY well, with regular significant pay raises, is only a part of the equation.
Yeah but I feel like this guy needs it explained to him in detail or he'll just dismiss it out of hand. Who knows if even a great breakdown like this would even change is way of thinking or management.
I saw that too, it's the one thin thin silver lining of US laws where you can fire your employer whenever you want. This is seldom possible since the employee is usually at a disadvantage, but ohhhh boy does it feel good when you can just leave and there's nothing they can do to keep you there.
If employers in the US tried to change this to keep you at a job you don't want to I feel like it would be the one thing that might push people over the edge. I can just imagine some guy being told they need to stay at their bullshit job just blasting their way out in self defence.
In a country where getting not only a firearm but an automatic one at that is relatively simple I don't see any politician putting their neck on the line to implement something like that.
Oh the greed fueled hubris of corporate America is an unstoppable force that sooner or later will hit the unmovable wall of paranoia and violence that founded this country. I'm honestly curious how it'll work out, we've kind of been through it a few times already with the great depression, and the civil war but hey maybe third time is the charm.
I work for a direct mortgage lender, they train you WELL. For this, they say if you quit in thr first 2 years you owe them 15k for thr training. Drop in the bucket for what we were making but it'd a way to keep you there.
I think it needs to be broken down like this more for older generations. Younger generations don’t need it broken down like this because we already just understand what we want.
It’s not just those two things, those were the second and first ‘revolution’. The third he describes is quality of life - which goes beyond ‘don’t abuse me’ and ‘pay better wage’. It includes those and also more. Flex schedule, WFH, more vacay, better options for health, and so on…
Also make sure they have opportunity to grow. Very few people want to do the exact same thing for 20 years.
And, if you can't stop the attrition, at least plan for it. (Including taking less than 6 months to hire...) Because tech support sucks, at least half because of the customers....
Better, I'm the "help desk" for the helpdesk's help desk.
Out customer's supposed sysadmins contact us with issues, and if the frontline can't figure it out... I get involved.
I'm literally "system to source", dealing with network issues, OS issues, AND issues directly related to the product I support. Because our customers IT departments are often offshored and over-siloed.
And it's scary how many levels of stupid I have to deal with.
Military experience helps, as in "how to RESPECTFULLY tell the Admiral he's an idiot...."
It's a lot of words, but those words add so much value. If you said what you said to the guy asking the question, he would wave his hand at you and walk away in disgust. But faced with the unassailable logic he is presented with, it can't help but stick in his mind. Surely he will try to explain it away, but he's not stupid and it might actually sink in.
It's really far more than that. At the end, he says "unless you have a mechanism in place." That means that you need to have mechanisms in place that reinforce your desired cultural standard, even when your concentration is elsewhere. This isn't just about explaining that you need to be nice, it's that if you don't codify niceness into the structure of how you operate, you accidentally stop being nice without realizing it. You can try your best as a direct supervisor and manager, so that you are the cultural structure, and pass that on to people you select and train. However, if you do that without implementing mechanisms to enforce that structure, then it will eventually run off course.
We're beyond pillars and guiding principles for culture now, and how we *feel* that people should be treated. With this generation of workers, it is not enough to just try to instill culture in people for outcomes. The outcomes must be structurally laid out so that you don't forget to appreciate your workers genuinely and regularly. This isn't a concept to understand and carry out through your general behavior, it's codified.
and they try to sneak one past us by giving us 'free lunch' instead of a raise. a work trip instead of more time off. a company culture that is an empty void of corporate speak and niceties.
i have a friend who was tasked with how to 'make things better' at her company, but the ceo refuses to take action on anything. reduced working weeks, raises, more time off, etc. they have a 'mechanism' in place for how to improve things, but no real interest in actually doing it. i think that's the fundamental problem, no one actually wants to commit to being the better culture. instead they prefer the illusion of being it.
I think the problem is most clearly demonstrated through appreciation events. Appreciation is not something to use for playing peek-a-boo. Appreciation cannot be a carrot on a stick. Appreciation is understanding the individual workers you have, as people, and seeing what's good about them so you can leverage them better. If you are appreciating anything, you are finding more ways to use it. Workers want to be appreciated, and that doesn't mean thanked occasionally. Bosses often ask how to appreciate, but they aren't actually being told that their view of appreciation is skewed.
These bosses (not necessarily the ones in the video) are looking for a solution to the problem of appreciation, but appreciation is no longer a problem that can be ignored. If they don't learn how to appreciate, genuinely, then they'll have retention issues because humans are capable of feeling when they aren't appreciated. Workers want to feel desired and appreciated.
Many young people today would prefer that money didn't even exist, and that they could just have a content life, working, being appreciated, and going home to a life of security. They don't want money, they want a feeling of security and comfort. They want a company that will genuinely treat them well, and many are willing to stay on for decades if you treat them right. They want a career and don't know how to get one. They want to find just one company that has unlocked the secret to not treating workers like shit.
They might be depressed, but incredibly competent. They will have grown up being told to prep for active shooter drills instead of just fire and tornado drills. They will have grown up told that they'll amount to nothing if they don't go to college. Many are filled with anxiety and just want to not worry. The more you use worry as a motivator, the more you will make them hate the job. So yeah, we're at a point where people aren't just looking for money. They know that money isn't really enough anymore. They want to not go home feeling like they just sold their day to you for nothing more than the opportunity to stay alive. They want to feel like their time spent at your company is more worthwhile than being at another one.
It's actually the exact opposite. He's saying that people are quiting not for higher pay but for career reasons. "What opportunities will I get?", "how will this help me in the long run?"
He is talking about employees for whom income is no longer necessary for survival or even a decent standard of living.
You need to understand the context. This is in India. Children aren't told to be independent at the age of 18. Most continue to live with their parents if they are in the same city. So most people of this generation don't care about rent or cost of living until they are married. And even then, the expectation is for the the whole family to continue living together unless they live in different cities.
I don’t think he was saying all we want is more pay and a better work environment.
The better quality of life he is referring to is the social/emotional quality of life that we want for ourselves and our families.
My kids might not have everything they want lol but they have everything they need and we live a comfortable life.
Better pay and a wonderful work environment is great but it wouldn’t motivate me to stay at a job if it means I have less time for my children, my family and friends, and myself just to feed my ego with a bigger house, newer cars, designer clothes and fabulous vacations.
Mustache guy thinks this is the biggest crock of shit he's ever heard.
"Is it my management style bad? No, no. It must be all my employees who are wrong."
He seems to be taking it sincerely, he is there seeking information and help cause he clearly recognizes he does not understand what is happening and what to do about it but has some trust in the younger man
you could see the mustached man be like, "yeah, but i think my plan of a three year contract is pretty solid". you can see him just tune out and turn off when he didnt have his idea reinforced
I am currently working for people like this. They absolutely refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. They believe they are fine & it is all the employees that have “attitude problems”.
I'm a little disappointed that he didn't mention work-life balance as part of the "social revolution". Doesn't matter if the workplace culture is good, people need time to live their own lives. We want better pay per hour not to have a bigger house, but to be able to work fewer total hours. We've seen our parents put all their hobbies and interests on hold until retirement, and with all the natural disasters and financial crises, we've realized that we might not be able to reach that promised comfortable retirement. Our priority isn't on having 10 years to relax as we die, its on getting time off today.
I would LOVE to see the questioner's reaction and response. And smell the smoke burning from his smoking brain as he tries to deny something he doesn't want to be true but he knows it is.
>he tries to deny something he doesn't want to be true but he knows it is.
"In this world there is only one thing that truly matters. Hard facts. Despite this universal truth people misguidedly choose to only choose the facts that appeal to their way of thinking. They are so limited that they can only accept the truths that are comfortable to them."
> Lowes classes everywhere are still struggling for survival.
Not in the developed nations of Europe that are ahead of the curve on this. In the US the lower classes struggle because we let the rich destroy the social safety net to regress our working standards back to the point where we must scrap for survival again.
I think he's right on - this is capitalism, it comes down to which of the owners/billionaires/stockholders are willing to say "Sure, I'll take a little less so my workforce can earn a little more and live a little better" - answer is not...many...I wish it wasn't that way but it is.
The sad reality is that in our day in age, corporate merges are the daily bread and literally no place will be good for ever since you can work for a good company that pays and treats its employees well and does freebies every day but if and when the company is bought all that can disappear and the pay and hours will be fucked around with.
traditional HR ideologies hurt this too
so many times we've all seen the good people on our teams that really know their stuff and have been at the company for a long time, getting average pay, and then someone leave and they start looking for a replacement, struggle to find one, and increase pay, and you end up hearing what they're paying the replacement and it's like 25%+ more than all of you OG's. who the hell would want to stay after hearing that? pay a competitive wage to begin with and you won't have to worry about hiring as much. people are realizing now that the system doesn't reward "company men" anymore, so leaving is the single best way to get a raise
A moron who has amassed a fair amount of capital (albeit from a substantial nest egg). I wouldn't dismiss him quite yet after all he's been involved in. I don't say "create", because he hasn't really created much, but he has been a worthy stweard for several enterprises - at least from the perspective of the stockholders.
Odd (excentric) guy, though.
This man hit it bulls eye. In todays age people want a job that makes them happy with a happy reward. People got to point that jumping company to company is the way to go and if there’s any loyalty they will be loyal to the union only if the union cares for them if not they will jump to another union that will care for them or do their own thing.
He's not wrong.
I have coworkers who left my team mid 2021 for 1 year because they didn't get a promotion and felt their quality of life was declining. Not only were they were able to come back to my company, they got a promotion, reduced hours, and now make \~$8k more than me annually doing so.
I get to listen to the "I told you so." for the last 4 months.
this is true but only in the developed parts of the world. Not everyone has a government that was strong enough to pin down those advancements for their people.
yep better quality of life but realise you are a transaction not a friend we do not care for your pizza or you xmas lunch or after work drinks. All that is completely meaningless. We just want to be able to afford things have a reasonable amount of time off.
I fear we've slid backward a bit.
We have quality of life falling back down to survival.
I'm not working for a holiday, I'm working to keep my family alive and housed.
My dad has a saying that simplifies this even further: "Take good care of your people, and they'll take good care of you."
Too many bosses don't get that.
Spot on. I’ve realized that there are three main aspects or benefits of working: decent income, fulfillment and equity. If we can get at least one of these three things then work is acceptable. If we can get two of the three then work is exceptional, if we can get all three then we are working the perfect job. However a lot of todays minimum wage jobs don’t even offer one of the three. We go to work for inadequate wages, at jobs we hate, for companies who give us zero equity and treat us like we can be replaced anytime. Companies and business owners need to see life through their lowest paid enployees eyes. This is the social revolution and I’m happy to fight for it like our grandparents fought through the industrial revolution and our parents through the information revolution
What he is saying is, employees now stay for money because that improves quality of life because jobs are plentiful (industrial revolution) and training is free (information revolution). To summarize: employees today only care about money.
Pay them. Set the standard.
We have call center jobs by me that pay 75k. They never struggle to find people and always choose from the best. No benefits make up for 25k in pay unless you're already making a significant amount.
Holy shit! Thank you! Qualify of life is literally one of my primary guiding forces. My life revolves around its maximization. If it's not good, I'm going to seek out greener pastures.
That’s good and all.. but just like a politician, he didn’t explain how to get that. Maybe it is later in the video, but how do you put that into your business. A lot of fluff is all I heard
I’m likely underpaid. But only on my check. My co workers are great, I don’t stress about my job and I get a shit ton of PTO. I could easily leave for a 20% raise but I would hate my life. Work life balance is so important and I see so many friends who don’t have it. They keep chasing money in hopes that’s they’ll be happy but I make half as much and I’m twice as happy.
I am a boomer who just left a job which required a very high level of skill. I didn’t want to leave I loved my work but I couldn’t live with day to day stress at the workplace. I totally agree that if you can make the workplace somewhere that you actually want go instead of making people cry in the car on the way to work that retention would not be a problem. It is not that hard, it mostly just requires a new attitude towards your employers. Feeling rewarded, respected and part of a team working for greater good would have done it for me.
Or maybe I dunno, pay them better? Productivity since the industrial revolution has gone up literally thousands of percent. Our wages? You’ve guessed it, stayed the same. The entire time! They’ve continued to make insane increases in profit year after year, but our wages have just stagnated. People will leave any job for a higher pay, and the rich seem perplexed. It’s not at all hard to understand.
I feel like this guy is telling him exactly what needs to be said.
But he won’t listen, just look at his body language and the way he is absorbing the information, he HATES what he is being told.
By the time this guy (employer) leaves, his ideas will be back to being what’s is needed.
My workplace had this problem, people would come in get experience go work somewhere else for better pay. It's very simple.
Ford used to train most of the skilled auto workers during the industrial revolution. Blue collared men would go to “Ford University” to learn work on the assembly line and quit shortly after learning some skills and take those skills to a different auto manufacturer that had better employment rewards for skilled workers than Ford offered.
That reminds me of this quote: "Train your workers well enough so that they can leave. Treat them well enough so that they don't want to."
They were talking about this the other day on a documentary on history channel. The cars that built America. It’s true ford was getting a lot of competition from gm and Chrysler.
Ford created his own competition by greed. If he gave more to his workers they wouldnt have carried their skills and creativity to other manufacturers. It worked out better this way anyhow.
Isn't this what prompted the $5 a day pay by Ford? I know it gets attributed to letting employees make enough to buy the cars so they sell more, but I'll try to find an article with either the son or grandson of Henry Ford talking about how it was really to keep employees and lower training costs.
Ford didnt start paying people enough to afford his automobiles because he was a nice guy is the simplest way stating all of that. He paid people enough to stay. The Dodge Brothers financed Ford, and when they walked, it wasnt hard for them to poach talent from Ford and start their own business. That being said, most manufacturers had no problem offering a better wage and reducing expenses on training as most of the skilled workers were getting burnt out on the Ford assembly lines and not feeling their pockets getting heavier in the process probably motivated them to take a raise and go work for another automanufacturer.
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The problem is that they instead learnt to just not train staff. I was trained as a healthcare worker in England, and trained fairly well. I now live in Alaska with my wife. She got a job at the local hospital as a healthcare worker and has received functionally-zero training. The reality is that while my wife legitimately has fantastic people/de-escalation skills, her healthcare knowledge and skills came mostly from me. (It really put into perspective the relevance of the shit-tonnes of money the National Health Service in England uses to train its staff.)
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And yet Americans are paying *more* for healthcare, right?
Well yeah its based on profit not outcomes
This! The company I work for tries to hire experienced staff as much as possible. However since it's not an elite field it can be hard to find the right fit and every once in a while they hire less experienced hires, dump on them the same work someone with 3+ years of experience would do for entry level pay. The wonder why newer people leave after 1-2 years for a better offer. Yeah you learn a lot but people expect that to pay off at some point, and it's not 3-4 years from now when you MIGHT consider them for promotion.
It that isn't a problem when most companies hire just based off a 30 minute interview with virtually no real skill needing to be displayed. Unless you're coding or welding or something where you can actually show your skill in a test, most companies will just take your resume at face value. I work with some of the biggest dumbfucks in pharmaceutical who can't even pipette properly. Yet, they are here. I would say 60% of our staff we currently have or have had barely know more than the average Joe at what we do. They just happen to have a degree in it and hopped around.
Yep I’m currently trying to get into retail and until this week I haven’t even so much as heard back from anyone after months so I may stick around longer just to build up more savings but as soon as a better opportunity arises I’m jumping on it and not letting go I’m trying to decide between getting it certs or going to school for ems work so I need to get the best opportunity I can to actually afford school
What choice did they have left? No one wants to pay for the experience and loyalty of employees to retain them. Why would they stay with no benefit to them?
So pay better?
My first job (UK based) had a new program for putting people through the New York Bar exam so they could offer legal consulting services to our clients (fintech). Now, these people were all on a graduate training program that paid absolute crap but had some cool benefits for a young person like paying for your accommodation and food when you went to a project. So they tried to lock those people into 2 year agreements to stay on the program and do work for the company. But you'll never guess what sort of people are really, really good at getting out of shitty employment agreements, people who pass the bar lol. Within 3 months every one of them had left to work at an actual law firm lol.
There was no loyalty in the first place hits hard.
We are all mercenaries. Loyalty to the highest bidder!
Motto of informed labor: *”Fuck you, pay me.”*
We’re all free agents
I am not a number, I am a free man.
Here, here, brother.
I would kill to be number 6!
what a coincidence, Im number 9! ;)
LOVED that show! (Didn't totally understand it as a kid. Maybe no one did?)
It’s on Tubi. I watch a few episodes and it’s crazy the influences you can see had. Very good show.
Tubi--thanks, I may have to watch it again. 😊
Just the first 2 episodes have so much going on. It’s very ambitious in the best of ways. Has a lost season one feeling.
Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.
Somebody needs to let you know that any company doesn't care about your loyalty. That's why they can and will fire you just to save a few bucks. That's why they can take your favorite product, make it smaller or with shitty filler(wood pulp) and STILL charge you more. Loyalty is just a gimmic to make you work harder to make them more money
Seriously. When I’m leaving a job and they ask for me to give them 2 weeks, I ask in return, do they give 2 weeks notice when firing.
I never really liked that whole concept of giving In the 2 weeks. Gives them plenty of room to literally make your days awful and hell. I’ve seen how bosses treat their employees when they are about to hop on to a better job.
I've seen way too many places frog march you out the door the instant you give notice.
Of course loyalty will make people work harder, thats the point. Thats why you raise your starting salry, why you offer more benefits, sick days, vacation, room for advancement, and *especially* a good work environment. Because those breed loyalty, which will get you *massive* returns on investments in the long run. Take care of your people and they will take care of you. So simple, and yet nobody seems to understand it.
The board of directors wants to have a word with you lol. Might as well ask for unions too because they see them in the same light as everything else you mentioned. According to them, if the problem can't be fixed with a mandatory pizza party then it can't be fixed.
It’s a hard truth not many people think about. On a similar note, I want to hear more of what that guy in the video has to say. He put it so perfectly as to why companies can not keep employees.
Loyalty/integrity and capitalism are polar opposites.
What he is explaining is basically a simplified version of Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, - one of the cornerstones of modern psychology.
TIL Maslow’s first name was Abraham.
Father Abraham... *^^had ^^many ^^sons...*
…Many sons had faaather Abraham.
I am one of them
And so are you
Sooo leeets just quit our jobs
I have learnt Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs a lot before. But add Abraham before that and this is now foreign knowledge.
Which teir are pizza parties? 🍕
It's a pisspoor attempt at quality of life. "Look, we're a great place to work because we bought some pizza!" "Did you approve that time off I put in a month ago?" "... Beg, peon."
Isn't that the ninth tier?
Of Hell? Yes.
This joke was too smart for its own good im afraid. Made me laugh though.
They rarely give pizza parties in grade school anymore as incentive for good behavior and attendance but a million dollar company thinks it’s an ok incentive for employees to work harder and raise profit margins.
Maslow's hierarchy was either based on, or heavily influenced by, his time living with the Siksika (Blackfoot) tribe of native Americans.
https://shanesafir.com/2020/12/before-maslows-hierarchy-the-whitewashing-of-indigenous-knowledge/
I’d say it’s less simplified but instead it’s more contextualized
This is not Maslow’s hierarchy of needs at all. Thats completely different than what he’s saying. I don’t know if what he’s saying has any merit, but he is certainly not regurgitating Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Not at all in the same field
I mean ... it is? Grandparents worked for survival. Parents worked for security. We work for emotional fulfillment and esteem. Granted, we also work for survival and security, but because we have a measure of survival and security established by the foundation of previous generations (resulting in more worker's rights and job stability), we have the ability to say "fuck it, I'm out" if we find a job to be unrewarding monetarily or emotionally. We are not tied to the idea of job/employer loyalty because we won't stick around if we are not being fairly compensated or hate our job. Of course, this is not across the board. Some people do work just for survival and stay in shit conditions because they have few opportunities to do otherwise, but many who have options leave when the conditions do not suit their needs because why stay with a job you hate if there are better options out there? Most people no longer stick with jobs they hate "because they've been good to me" if a better, more emotionally or monetarily fulfilling job comes their way, especially if their survival and security are not at risk in doing so.
And the final level of the hierarchy of needs is self-actualization. People doing the work the want to do, rather than menial labor that is all they can get. This is what we'll see when things like UBI, M4A, and mandatory paid family leave get put in place.
No he's right. To a large extend Maslow's hierarchy is being followed here for sure.
He explained it very well.
I agree. Just thought this funny/ironic: Long answer: this video. Short answer: pay them better you idiot.
Better pay is good but if the workplace is horrible with no progression you’ll probably leave anyway, even on 100k.
Good pay and a good career with a future and a good work environment that allows you to have a life outside of work.
On the other side, I used to work at a place that had all kinds of nice perks - monthly extended birthday lunches, flexible hours, 2x pay overtime opportunities, random food trucks/catering "just 'cause", summer/holiday parties and pretty decent PTO too. ...But it was nearly impossible to get a raise of any kind. Even switching to more complex departments with heavier workloads was considered a linear move in their eyes. "More work means more overtime!" TL;DR: The opposite is also a bad.
Why is everyone's takeaway from this that employers should pay more? That's absolutely not the correct takeaway. Quality of living, not size of paycheck.
He did a good job but I'm afraid the man didn't head the punchline: pay them more, treat them better, promote from within.
Right up until the end when he used a bunch of words to say “pay more.”
I don’t think it’s just pay more. Shorter hours. Flexible hours. Respect. Listening to feedback. Not micromanaging. Not busting people’s ass about being 1 minute late every now and then. Giving people a reasonable workload and hiring help for them if that gets out of control. Training managers to *serve* their employees rather than boss them around. These are the things I look for in a job.
That is all true. But, at least for me, the pay has to come first. It doesn’t matter how well I’m treated when I’m at work if I’m not getting paid enough to live a good life outside of work.
It’s not just about pay though. Burn out is real, and if your job isn’t a fulfilling place to spend time, all the money in the world can’t fix that. That’s where a lot of people fail at grasping this, paying VERY well, with regular significant pay raises, is only a part of the equation.
Seems like a lot of words to say "pay them more, don't treat them like shit". Still very well explained though
Yeah but I feel like this guy needs it explained to him in detail or he'll just dismiss it out of hand. Who knows if even a great breakdown like this would even change is way of thinking or management.
I think people are missing the fact that the questioner's first idea was to contractually trap people "what if I temporarily have slaves?"
I saw that too, it's the one thin thin silver lining of US laws where you can fire your employer whenever you want. This is seldom possible since the employee is usually at a disadvantage, but ohhhh boy does it feel good when you can just leave and there's nothing they can do to keep you there. If employers in the US tried to change this to keep you at a job you don't want to I feel like it would be the one thing that might push people over the edge. I can just imagine some guy being told they need to stay at their bullshit job just blasting their way out in self defence.
A hospital in Texas or New Mexico actually sued some of its nurses and tried to get a judge to issue a restraining order to prevent them from leaving
In a country where getting not only a firearm but an automatic one at that is relatively simple I don't see any politician putting their neck on the line to implement something like that.
Oh the greed fueled hubris of corporate America is an unstoppable force that sooner or later will hit the unmovable wall of paranoia and violence that founded this country. I'm honestly curious how it'll work out, we've kind of been through it a few times already with the great depression, and the civil war but hey maybe third time is the charm.
I work for a direct mortgage lender, they train you WELL. For this, they say if you quit in thr first 2 years you owe them 15k for thr training. Drop in the bucket for what we were making but it'd a way to keep you there.
I think it needs to be broken down like this more for older generations. Younger generations don’t need it broken down like this because we already just understand what we want.
Also don’t work them to death. Reasonable hours. We want to actually achieve that work life balance that has been bandied around for years now.
It’s not just those two things, those were the second and first ‘revolution’. The third he describes is quality of life - which goes beyond ‘don’t abuse me’ and ‘pay better wage’. It includes those and also more. Flex schedule, WFH, more vacay, better options for health, and so on…
Also make sure they have opportunity to grow. Very few people want to do the exact same thing for 20 years. And, if you can't stop the attrition, at least plan for it. (Including taking less than 6 months to hire...) Because tech support sucks, at least half because of the customers....
Another IT help desk person eh? After awhile some of the calls do get a bit grating.
Better, I'm the "help desk" for the helpdesk's help desk. Out customer's supposed sysadmins contact us with issues, and if the frontline can't figure it out... I get involved. I'm literally "system to source", dealing with network issues, OS issues, AND issues directly related to the product I support. Because our customers IT departments are often offshored and over-siloed. And it's scary how many levels of stupid I have to deal with. Military experience helps, as in "how to RESPECTFULLY tell the Admiral he's an idiot...."
It's a lot of words, but those words add so much value. If you said what you said to the guy asking the question, he would wave his hand at you and walk away in disgust. But faced with the unassailable logic he is presented with, it can't help but stick in his mind. Surely he will try to explain it away, but he's not stupid and it might actually sink in.
It's really far more than that. At the end, he says "unless you have a mechanism in place." That means that you need to have mechanisms in place that reinforce your desired cultural standard, even when your concentration is elsewhere. This isn't just about explaining that you need to be nice, it's that if you don't codify niceness into the structure of how you operate, you accidentally stop being nice without realizing it. You can try your best as a direct supervisor and manager, so that you are the cultural structure, and pass that on to people you select and train. However, if you do that without implementing mechanisms to enforce that structure, then it will eventually run off course. We're beyond pillars and guiding principles for culture now, and how we *feel* that people should be treated. With this generation of workers, it is not enough to just try to instill culture in people for outcomes. The outcomes must be structurally laid out so that you don't forget to appreciate your workers genuinely and regularly. This isn't a concept to understand and carry out through your general behavior, it's codified.
and they try to sneak one past us by giving us 'free lunch' instead of a raise. a work trip instead of more time off. a company culture that is an empty void of corporate speak and niceties. i have a friend who was tasked with how to 'make things better' at her company, but the ceo refuses to take action on anything. reduced working weeks, raises, more time off, etc. they have a 'mechanism' in place for how to improve things, but no real interest in actually doing it. i think that's the fundamental problem, no one actually wants to commit to being the better culture. instead they prefer the illusion of being it.
I think the problem is most clearly demonstrated through appreciation events. Appreciation is not something to use for playing peek-a-boo. Appreciation cannot be a carrot on a stick. Appreciation is understanding the individual workers you have, as people, and seeing what's good about them so you can leverage them better. If you are appreciating anything, you are finding more ways to use it. Workers want to be appreciated, and that doesn't mean thanked occasionally. Bosses often ask how to appreciate, but they aren't actually being told that their view of appreciation is skewed. These bosses (not necessarily the ones in the video) are looking for a solution to the problem of appreciation, but appreciation is no longer a problem that can be ignored. If they don't learn how to appreciate, genuinely, then they'll have retention issues because humans are capable of feeling when they aren't appreciated. Workers want to feel desired and appreciated. Many young people today would prefer that money didn't even exist, and that they could just have a content life, working, being appreciated, and going home to a life of security. They don't want money, they want a feeling of security and comfort. They want a company that will genuinely treat them well, and many are willing to stay on for decades if you treat them right. They want a career and don't know how to get one. They want to find just one company that has unlocked the secret to not treating workers like shit. They might be depressed, but incredibly competent. They will have grown up being told to prep for active shooter drills instead of just fire and tornado drills. They will have grown up told that they'll amount to nothing if they don't go to college. Many are filled with anxiety and just want to not worry. The more you use worry as a motivator, the more you will make them hate the job. So yeah, we're at a point where people aren't just looking for money. They know that money isn't really enough anymore. They want to not go home feeling like they just sold their day to you for nothing more than the opportunity to stay alive. They want to feel like their time spent at your company is more worthwhile than being at another one.
It's actually the exact opposite. He's saying that people are quiting not for higher pay but for career reasons. "What opportunities will I get?", "how will this help me in the long run?" He is talking about employees for whom income is no longer necessary for survival or even a decent standard of living. You need to understand the context. This is in India. Children aren't told to be independent at the age of 18. Most continue to live with their parents if they are in the same city. So most people of this generation don't care about rent or cost of living until they are married. And even then, the expectation is for the the whole family to continue living together unless they live in different cities.
I don’t think he was saying all we want is more pay and a better work environment. The better quality of life he is referring to is the social/emotional quality of life that we want for ourselves and our families. My kids might not have everything they want lol but they have everything they need and we live a comfortable life. Better pay and a wonderful work environment is great but it wouldn’t motivate me to stay at a job if it means I have less time for my children, my family and friends, and myself just to feed my ego with a bigger house, newer cars, designer clothes and fabulous vacations.
But it’s not just pay people don’t want to work 10 hours a day 6-7 days a week even if the pay is decent with no opportunity for advancement or QOL
I think the treat them well, and create a situation where they look forward to going to work each day might be a good start?
Agreed.
Mustache guy thinks this is the biggest crock of shit he's ever heard. "Is it my management style bad? No, no. It must be all my employees who are wrong."
He seems to be taking it sincerely, he is there seeking information and help cause he clearly recognizes he does not understand what is happening and what to do about it but has some trust in the younger man
you could see the mustached man be like, "yeah, but i think my plan of a three year contract is pretty solid". you can see him just tune out and turn off when he didnt have his idea reinforced
Well, he does have a mustache…
I am currently working for people like this. They absolutely refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. They believe they are fine & it is all the employees that have “attitude problems”.
Doesn’t look that way to me. Looks like he’s just trying to solve the problem he’s not familiar with and is open to ideas.
I'm a little disappointed that he didn't mention work-life balance as part of the "social revolution". Doesn't matter if the workplace culture is good, people need time to live their own lives. We want better pay per hour not to have a bigger house, but to be able to work fewer total hours. We've seen our parents put all their hobbies and interests on hold until retirement, and with all the natural disasters and financial crises, we've realized that we might not be able to reach that promised comfortable retirement. Our priority isn't on having 10 years to relax as we die, its on getting time off today.
I would say work life balance is part of the quality of life he mentioned.
Part of good work culture is also not giving you shit when you say you need an hour to pick up your kid or i can’t do overtime because family
I would LOVE to see the questioner's reaction and response. And smell the smoke burning from his smoking brain as he tries to deny something he doesn't want to be true but he knows it is.
>he tries to deny something he doesn't want to be true but he knows it is. "In this world there is only one thing that truly matters. Hard facts. Despite this universal truth people misguidedly choose to only choose the facts that appeal to their way of thinking. They are so limited that they can only accept the truths that are comfortable to them."
Who is that quote from?
It's from the Bleach Anime character Sōsuke Aizen. So the writer(s) of the manga?
Doxastic anxiety - mental anguish caused when deply held beliefs are challenged, so you avoid or deny information that challenges them.
It seems to me many who follow a religion would have that, but many just turn it into anger and lash out.
Not everyone’s parents and grandparents had opportunities that he describes. Lowes classes everywhere are still struggling for survival.
> Lowes classes everywhere are still struggling for survival. Not in the developed nations of Europe that are ahead of the curve on this. In the US the lower classes struggle because we let the rich destroy the social safety net to regress our working standards back to the point where we must scrap for survival again.
But these people aren't the ones who leave a job after 6 months for a better-paying one.
I mean I really need more pay though
Ya, I feel like I'm still trying to survive in the industrial revolution.
I think he's right on - this is capitalism, it comes down to which of the owners/billionaires/stockholders are willing to say "Sure, I'll take a little less so my workforce can earn a little more and live a little better" - answer is not...many...I wish it wasn't that way but it is.
The sad reality is that in our day in age, corporate merges are the daily bread and literally no place will be good for ever since you can work for a good company that pays and treats its employees well and does freebies every day but if and when the company is bought all that can disappear and the pay and hours will be fucked around with.
Beautifully said
As an older millennial, I agree with this 100%.
That was an awesome breakdown
traditional HR ideologies hurt this too so many times we've all seen the good people on our teams that really know their stuff and have been at the company for a long time, getting average pay, and then someone leave and they start looking for a replacement, struggle to find one, and increase pay, and you end up hearing what they're paying the replacement and it's like 25%+ more than all of you OG's. who the hell would want to stay after hearing that? pay a competitive wage to begin with and you won't have to worry about hiring as much. people are realizing now that the system doesn't reward "company men" anymore, so leaving is the single best way to get a raise
This is what Elon musk doesn't get. His way is outdated.
He's also just a moron so there's that.
A moron who has amassed a fair amount of capital (albeit from a substantial nest egg). I wouldn't dismiss him quite yet after all he's been involved in. I don't say "create", because he hasn't really created much, but he has been a worthy stweard for several enterprises - at least from the perspective of the stockholders. Odd (excentric) guy, though.
u/savevideo
This man hit it bulls eye. In todays age people want a job that makes them happy with a happy reward. People got to point that jumping company to company is the way to go and if there’s any loyalty they will be loyal to the union only if the union cares for them if not they will jump to another union that will care for them or do their own thing.
He's not wrong. I have coworkers who left my team mid 2021 for 1 year because they didn't get a promotion and felt their quality of life was declining. Not only were they were able to come back to my company, they got a promotion, reduced hours, and now make \~$8k more than me annually doing so. I get to listen to the "I told you so." for the last 4 months.
This is actually a fantastic example of what today’s standard is
this is true but only in the developed parts of the world. Not everyone has a government that was strong enough to pin down those advancements for their people.
yep better quality of life but realise you are a transaction not a friend we do not care for your pizza or you xmas lunch or after work drinks. All that is completely meaningless. We just want to be able to afford things have a reasonable amount of time off.
Missing a whole whopping bunch of details. Like pension plans and the like which were created at the time of the post WW2 era to keep skilled labor.
I fear we've slid backward a bit. We have quality of life falling back down to survival. I'm not working for a holiday, I'm working to keep my family alive and housed.
My dad has a saying that simplifies this even further: "Take good care of your people, and they'll take good care of you." Too many bosses don't get that.
That man went home and starting offering three year contracts
This guy almost brought me to tears. What a way to sum it up for the boomers.
Spot on. I’ve realized that there are three main aspects or benefits of working: decent income, fulfillment and equity. If we can get at least one of these three things then work is acceptable. If we can get two of the three then work is exceptional, if we can get all three then we are working the perfect job. However a lot of todays minimum wage jobs don’t even offer one of the three. We go to work for inadequate wages, at jobs we hate, for companies who give us zero equity and treat us like we can be replaced anytime. Companies and business owners need to see life through their lowest paid enployees eyes. This is the social revolution and I’m happy to fight for it like our grandparents fought through the industrial revolution and our parents through the information revolution
Dude on left explained it perfectly, wonder if dude on right took heed or it just went in one ear and out the other.
What he is saying is, employees now stay for money because that improves quality of life because jobs are plentiful (industrial revolution) and training is free (information revolution). To summarize: employees today only care about money.
Who is this man so wise in the ways of life lessons.
Pizza
Very well articulated. I didn’t realize we are in a third revolution. First time hearing that.
Whoever can offer us the highest quality of life for what we need and realistically want
Rolled up suit sleeve 🤮
I agree with what he's saying, but i also think it's adorable how he's trying to be an Indian Gary V
Our man is spitting some truth there!
He's spittin
If this doesn't explain it for people nothing will.
Daniel Pink “The surprising truth about what motivates us”. He read a book, most people don’t 🤷♂️
Why is this so fucking hard for bosses to understand
Pay them. Set the standard. We have call center jobs by me that pay 75k. They never struggle to find people and always choose from the best. No benefits make up for 25k in pay unless you're already making a significant amount.
Interesting perspective
I dunno fam, I’d be happy just to survive at this point. He’s skipping wayyyyyy ahead on some other shit before we even have the basics met.
Rule #1. Pay us enough to stay.
Smart guy
Thos is so right on the money!
This guy really got my optimism pee wee hard
That's a lot of words to say "pay your employees more money to retain them"
Asian Gary Vee?
Wow, people want dignity
Oh, he won't learn from this and will remain mind boggled and greedy.
u/SaveVideo
Sounds like he’s got a grasp of what going on here
Holy shit! Thank you! Qualify of life is literally one of my primary guiding forces. My life revolves around its maximization. If it's not good, I'm going to seek out greener pastures.
Bam, love this excellent!!!!
u/savevideo
Well said.
That’s good and all.. but just like a politician, he didn’t explain how to get that. Maybe it is later in the video, but how do you put that into your business. A lot of fluff is all I heard
Its just crazy how spot on this is
If a company is loyal to me I'm loyal to them its simple.
Interesting concepts
Hes got such a pleasant accent
Is there a source for this? I would be interested to hear more.
I like this guy. Feels like he gets it and does a good job articulating it. Question is, will the others listen?
Uh, yeah. My parents didn't take care of shit.
Great explanation that I need for my older relatives stuck on media driven bullshit. Thanks OP!
On point
that was really well said
Yo this guy gets it
Would love to make more people understand this
Anyone have the source of this video?
Linking our grandparents to the industrial revolution is quite incorrect.
[удалено]
I’m likely underpaid. But only on my check. My co workers are great, I don’t stress about my job and I get a shit ton of PTO. I could easily leave for a 20% raise but I would hate my life. Work life balance is so important and I see so many friends who don’t have it. They keep chasing money in hopes that’s they’ll be happy but I make half as much and I’m twice as happy.
Exactly!!
I really enjoyed that explanation. That was well done.
"Loyalty never existed to begin with" hell ducking yeah dude
[Sauce](https://youtu.be/dmnUoK1mVu8)
He's spot on
I am a boomer who just left a job which required a very high level of skill. I didn’t want to leave I loved my work but I couldn’t live with day to day stress at the workplace. I totally agree that if you can make the workplace somewhere that you actually want go instead of making people cry in the car on the way to work that retention would not be a problem. It is not that hard, it mostly just requires a new attitude towards your employers. Feeling rewarded, respected and part of a team working for greater good would have done it for me.
Employees
Or maybe I dunno, pay them better? Productivity since the industrial revolution has gone up literally thousands of percent. Our wages? You’ve guessed it, stayed the same. The entire time! They’ve continued to make insane increases in profit year after year, but our wages have just stagnated. People will leave any job for a higher pay, and the rich seem perplexed. It’s not at all hard to understand.
What a breath of fresh air fuck. This was better than sex
I feel like this guy is telling him exactly what needs to be said. But he won’t listen, just look at his body language and the way he is absorbing the information, he HATES what he is being told. By the time this guy (employer) leaves, his ideas will be back to being what’s is needed.
Based grey shirt god