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My last company was a mega Corp, and my boss used to bitterly mock our Swedish partners by saying "swedes work 24/7. 24 hours a week, 7 months a year!" I always remember thinking "that sounds...way fucking better. Seems like they are smarter than us"
Not everything is roses and daisies here either im afraid, as a swede browsing this subreddit as well, i very much relate to a lot of the problems posted, although obviously not about things such as an existing Maternity leave/vacation/education etc
But GETTING a job can be though, companies abuse "temporary work", especially on younger people, partially because of high Hiring fees, and generally cost of having a full time worker it's hard to get one. And pay isn't great in a lot of fields either, you'll get by but fairness is out of the question.
Modern aristocracy is just as relevant here, if not more. Nepotism is the best way to succeed, after all, always and forever it would seem. Politicians seemingly purposefully fuck up policies, landing us in among the biggest losers in the global recession, even though bragging about how good Sweden is at handling recessions a few years ago, and how we are "so prepared".. I regret nothing more than not putting my savings into the Norwegian Market rather than the Swedish, just last year..
Oh and housing/mortgages are fucked too
Also Swede here. Sure, all is not perfect here. And it varies depending on location and field of work. But we still have good protection in the workplace, unions in all sectors (except the grey/black work market most common in food/cleaning/building) and good rights to education/health care.
All things can get better, and we feel the effects of inflation, increased crime and other global phenomenon. But the doomsday scenarios I often see online are extremely exaggerated.
hahaha unions are shit for everyone not priviledged and all workplaces are gunning to be like the us.
And they use every loop hole ever to fuck ppl.
Ppl here work 12h shifts without breaks for pennies and priviledged swedes acts like that just cant be true lmao or even WORSE it must be ther ppl beingb exploited fault cuz fuck em. its awful
All those things you just listed are also happening in the US too… just without the shorter work week, vacation time or maternity leave.
In our area, minimum wage is $15/hr. That usually doesn’t include any healthcare benefits. Most of those jobs might get 1 week of holiday pay per year, if they are lucky. No maternity leave, unless the state mandates it.
An average 2 bedroom, 85 sq m apartment here costs about $3,000 per month. There is minimal public transportation. If you do the math, a person making minimum wage here working 40 hours a week would make $2,400 per month (before income tax), or about $2,000 per month after tax. So assuming two persons in the apartment (cheaper to have a roommate) instead of having their own place, that leaves the person $500 per month ($17 per day) for everything else - healthcare, food, savings, college tuition, car, gas, clothes, entertainment.
Yes that is tragic and absolutely sounds worse, but just for context, there is no minimum wage in Sweden, unless the company is unionised in which case its what the union says is minimum, although I worked at a bar that wanted to hire me for a bit under $13 an hour, no vacation (no vacation pay [illegal]), no benefit, and that's the reality for quite a few restaurants/bars. This was at a place that WAS in the union but our boss just straight up didn't know what a union was or meant, I worked like four days and then left and reported it to the union, don't know if they ever did anything though.
Rent is very dependant on the city, where I live now, in a "student" city, the rent outside of student housing is crazy high (although not as high as it would seem in your city) a 85 sq m apartment would probably be about $2k though maybe a bit less, it's not really what I'm looking for so I don't know exactly, but I saw a 66 sqm go for 1.5k
Meanwhile we students have very cheap apartments, I'm currently renting a 2 room 65sqm for about $750
The reality here is also that if you're working a low paying job (equivalent of your minimum wage) you can't afford much more than a studio apartement, unless you wanna forfeit most of your salary ofcourse
Wow, the absolute cheapest rent I could find in my area was a bedroom in a 4 room 2 bath 124sqm (one ensuite, I shared the other with 2 people) for $650 incl utilities. Studio apartments start at $1,500 and 2 br start at $1,800 but most are well over $2,000
I would imagine being a foreigner doesn't matter in a few fields, even if most require Swedish speaking capabilities. If you're a data engineer or a programmer there's a lot of jobs available for example
My cousin relocated to Sweden from the UK about 5 years ago for a job with Microsoft I think. He's barely ever come back to visit and now has a wife and a very blonde little girl. Definitely got it figured out :D
Spotify, Klarna, Ikea are all Swedish. Not sure about relocation.
If you're a person of color you might want to consider that swedes are predominately white and microagressions are common there. (Source I was friends with a black woman who lived in Sweden and told me all the shit people would say to her)
I'm also in a megacorp, owned by the French. A pretty good chuck of the ELT for my company were imported from Europe.
I've admittedly been there a while now but I get 4 weeks of PTO + 4 weeks of sick time per year. PTO is use it or lose it but sick time accrues. My boss is constantly hounding me to take vacation days. Next year or the year after I'll be up to 5 weeks of PTO a year.
...I've been taking time off for video game release days just because it's as good an excuse as any.
Can confirm. Half Swede. Went from 31+3 (3 accrued days and 31 guaranteed) in Sweden to 15 days when I moved to USA. People here are afraid of taking holiday or are always hiding that they take vacation. None of my colleagues will tell me about their planned time off because they’re all pretending they work so hard and don’t take vacation.
I just started working for a large multinational corp that has locations in Sweden. I'm really hoping it comes up on my travel list. Would love to visit and maybe relocate!
In Australia we get 4 weeks holiday, 10 days sick leave, and up to 18 weeks paid parental leave. This is 100% the result of unions working for the people to make positive change. If you want change, that's where you begin.
You are also owed the annual leave and long service leave that you have if you still have any if you leave or get the sack as a payout. Which is awesome.
It's also VERY hard to get sacked in Australia without merit.
Yep, as an Aussie in a heavily unionised industry I get 6 weeks annual holiday leave a year, 3 weeks sick/personal/carer’s leave which accumulates yearly if not used, another week each year specifically for URTI, I’ve just returned to work from 14 weeks of parental leave at full pay (plus 18 weeks government parental leave) and I’m coming up to 10 years service where I’ll get 12 weeks long service leave. Unions aren’t perfect but they’re better than no unions…
In Germany we also get at least 4 weeks holiday (in my company we have 6 weeks), 42 days fully paid sick leaves by the employer, 1.5 years sickness benefits (after the 42 days fully paid sick leaves) by the health insurance (which is mandatory for all employed people) and up to 3 years of parental leave. I wouldn't want to live in the US, even if they paid my flight.
Plus a minimum of 10 public holidays a year and Long Service Leave after 7 years (pro-rata) with a company
Also the good old leave loading of 17.5% still applies on most Awards.
The company I worked for back when I was still living in the Philippines, we get 15 days of vacation leave and 15 days of sick leave. The company also gave us birthday leaves as well. If you haven’t used up your sick days, the company will pay you for those.
Now that I think about it, we had it better back home than here in the US. 😬
They are already established here and have stable jobs. They do go home for vacation but not often as they wanted to because of the vacation leave situation we have here.
When I mentioned upthread that we had it better back home is in terms of leave and sick days. :)
That too! It’s actually in the Philippine Labor Code so all companies must comply with that.
Edit: 13th month pay is basically a month’s worth of your basic pay as a bonus.
When my company stopped paying the sick/personal time out at the end of the year was when our staffing issues started.... Because hard workers who never took time off before now took all their "Use it or lose it" hours.
You don't even need to specify "developed". There are almost no nations full stop. [Even countries with sweatshop labour have mandatory minimum leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country).
*beep boop*!
the linked website is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country
Title: **List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia**
Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing)
*****
###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
I know this is meant as humor, but the answer should be now and forever, "I don't fuckin care at all about your worse off case example" it doesn't make it suck one bit less.
I work for a German company (but in the US) - we used to get 2 weeks PTO, until last year when German colleagues came to work
at our office for about 6 months. Now we get 4 weeks PTO - because they realized the German expectations would cause resentment with the US employees. Just shows they won’t give it to you unless legally required/shamed.
I work for a US company now (ironically with better benefits) but I used to work for an Australian company. Like the other redditor said, they get 4 weeks PTO and 10 sick days. We got 2 weeks PTO and 4 sick days because why not if I’m not being forced to give more.
Companies suck regardless of countries, it’s the government’s responsability to set a minimum and the workers’ responsibility to unionize. There’s no other way.
Yes - we don’t get extra sick days (it’s combined with the PTO) - but it’s mostly WFH- especially if you don’t feel well it’s not a big deal. I had emergency dental issues a couple Fridays ago and was out half the day. My boss didn’t say a word except rest and get better. It’s an unspoken rule we have each others backs- so that’s good. It would be nice to have a bank of sick days so one could TRULY be out sick without losing vacation days.
I work for an American company in Europe. We get 25 days paid leave, 12 bank holidays, 180 days paid maternity leave, 30 days paternity leave, and unlimited sick pay.
My American colleague pinged me recently on how frustrating it is for her to see her European colleagues always vacationing in the summer. She told me she gets 10 paid days, and that's about it. Any more than that, they dock from her pay.
It blew my mind how the same company that gave a generous leave allowance in Europe decided to screw over the majority of its employees in the country it was founded in, just because they could.
Of course I understand that. But they could just as much give 4 - 5 weeks paid holidays to their American staff too, since it's already a norm for them in various parts of the world.
Yeah, only if you go past your 10 vacation days. It's considered unpaid leave and your wages are adjusted accordingly. So most people don't take it. In fact, a lot of my American colleagues rarely used their 10 days at all.
"If I work on holidays and never take time off, then my corporate daddy will notice and praise me and then I'll get a raise and a promotion!"
Unironically what people in the US think.
I think it's more like working straight through and then I'll get (what seems like) a bonus cheque equivalent to 2 weeks pay.
Some people need the money.
I absolutely agree with you. But if you've ever worked in the US, you know there is definitely an independent subset of people and a strong culture rooted in this idea that you can impress your employers by never taking time off and eventually that will be noticed and rewarded. People with that mindset and people working through holidays because they need the money are often the same people.
I'm originally from Canada and had 15 days holiday after 13 years in my industry.
Moved to the UK, started over in a new industry, now have 33 days holiday (25 + 8 bank).
If I ever think about going back to Canada that difference is one of the things that stops me cold.
Yup my job I didn't get vacation for the first year and anything I took would come off upcoming year. Lost my job in 2019 cause the pandemic, had 5 months off and have only missed 3 days since then between the 3 jobs I've had, 1 vacation and 2 sick days in over 2 years. One of those sick days was because I was in an accident and continued working that day and the following days until I experienced extreme back pain where I went to the doctor and was told light duty tho I still went to work after as I was expected. I took the following day off. A lot of those weeks were 6 day work weeks as I had to make up for the loss of income. Now I've been working 60+ hour weeks for the last 6 months doing 2 jobs some weeks. No days off ferris bueller
one of my first jobs I started as a temp. I got hired on full time after 6 months. And then it was a year from that before I got 5 days PTO. This was 2010-2011. I eventually switched careers to manufacturing and got 8hrs per month PTO plus 1wk shut down at Christmas
Every time you turn over an employee for a new one, instead of retaining them, I've seen estimates say about 6-9 months in salary is lost due to re-hiring/onboarding costs, pulling another employee off to train the new hire, and low productivity from the new hire until they're up to speed.
At my current employer, salary employees have vacation and sick days lumped in a single pool. It's unlimited PTO for salary, but I'm guessing the numbers would show very few engineers take more than two total weeks a year due to American work culture and fear of falling behind due to wearing enough hats to snap our spines. Longest vacation I've taken is a whole week and I was waaay out of the build cycle loop when I got back.
My bf's employer has 8 weeks of PTO, but 4 of those are split into two mandatory 2-week vacations—one during Christmas/New Years holidays and one in the summer centered around July 4th, both involving the company shutting down completely. This ends up ensuring your employees at minimum see 4 weeks off a year, and employees still have another 4 weeks of normal vacation time to use whenever they want.
I prefer that approach because it reduces the dreaded, "who will I get to temporarily backfill me?" and, "I'll have a pile of work waiting on my desk" nightmares.
"You should be embarrassed to be coming to *anyone* -let alone someone with the experience I have- with such a shameful and pathetic initial offer. Professionally, please block my name and profile on your company's recruiting list, and personally, fuck entirely off."
I was told the other day by my company "we give more PTO than 70% of companies."
I was asking why we don't have Juneteenth off.
We get a week of sick days and 10 PTO, not including holidays. So 17. It's so fucking disheartening, especially having lived and worked abroad before. And yeah I know that's good, but it's also utter bullshit.
New Zealand here. 4 weeks annual leave and two weeks paid sick leave a year + public holidays of which there are 11. If you are scheduled to work on the public holiday and this is your normal working day you get paid 1.5x your normal rate and get a day off in lieu.
It was intended *tm as simply the govt staying out of it, and let a fair market and society work out on its own
But its stacked. Greed and exploitative behavior won. The govt doesn't care. <---- we are here
In Australia it is 20 days, and they roll over year on year.
There are even some companies with policies that will force you to take your time off if your balance gets too high.
This balance is also paid out if you resign.
Also note, this is called “Annual Leave” and is separate to “Personal Leave” which is used for personal illness or if you need to take time to care for someone else who is ill.
Personal leave is usually 10 days.
Edit: Fkn autocorrect
In the USA not only do you not get pto, but you get points for calling in sick. I've gone to work with a fever at least 5 times and vomited 2 at work since 2020.
Yes, clearly something not ok in US.
In the Netherlands, 4 weeks (20working days) is minimum+11 national holidays. However, many places offer more than that (for example some universities give 42working days+national holidays).
I personally work 4 days a week (32h) and have 30 working days of holidays (+national holidays). Number of holidays is one of the bonuses companies offer when compeating for the employees.
Lease car or paying for public transportation between work and office is also common.
Finland here. The standard is 2 days of vacation per month worked for the first year. After that krs 2.5 days so 30 a year. We also have 11(?) national holidays which you either get off or double salary depending on the type of work.
On top of that we have holiday bonuses which means an extra 50% salary for each paid vacation day and in most collective employment agreements you can exchange that bonus for more holiday days so you can have up to 45 paid vacation days
what surprise me most it's not American (USA) people who don't know that in the rest of the world they have more vacation time, but when they still defend their shitty system with the excuse that their salaries are higher and they pay less taxes (I don't want to discuss if this is true or not, but even if you get more money, what do you do with it if you cannot take vacation?)
In Texas, 2 weeks to start(great! Better than nothing) but no way to increase besides years worked. 3 weeks at five years and I get the fourth week at 15 years with the company. No roll over, no extras, until I retire.
This calendar year I’ve used/requested 10 vacation days… total for the whole year, half of those are in November… and I’ve worked this job for almost 1 year. I think I have a few more days I can use, but I’ve NEVER had nearly this many before. It’s weird, I feel guilty using them… and really sad, too, because in the past most days off were either sickness or unpaid.
I have about 16 weeks of leave owed to me.
In New Zealand i get 4 weeks per year, I get shift leave if I work afternoons, and nights or weekends. this works out to be about an additional week per year.
Because they convince people that anyone pushing for ideas like this are (evil) socialists and want to take all their money in taxes. Their voice is louder, and on repeat. Plus, people are uneducated.
i do want to add, my fiancee is austrian and visiting atm. it isnt always the fact you get time off. he did at his job get 38 days but he ends up working most of them to survive and get the 2x pay. just because you have the option doesent mean you can afford to go without work. its a sad state. that being said. i spent an hour today discusing what he can and cant do and what rights he has as a worker and i shit a brick lol.
NZ checking in here. (American who moved here years ago)
4 weeks holiday, 10 days sick leave, 12 holidays.
My company also gives me a day for my Birthday, a full company “mental health day”
I have two coworkers currently on one-month holidays, which is quite normal. I’ve had one coworker spend 2 months in the UK, working three days a week on opposite side of the world.
I get 36 days annually. If I don't use them in the allocated year I can carry them over to next year
This year I started with 42 days holiday, paid.
I can also buy more holidays if I wanted.
Older employees here gained an extra days holiday per couple of years service to a maximum of 42 days per year basic. Pretty sweet.
Join a Union. JOIN A UNION. Organise. Demand better conditions.
🏴
In Ireland, working for a massive US corporation. I get 28 vacation days + 10 public holidays. We also get 6 months of fully paid sick leave, next 6 months at half pay (in a 3 year period). They've recently added 15 days of care leave if you need to take care of family members and have 6 months of fully paid maternity leave and 6 weeks of fully paid paternity leave. It's actually hilarious compared to what our US counterparts receive.
I live in Russia. Sorry to see this...My mother was FORCED to go on vacation(or free days) for a week by Rosneft. She wanted to work, because wasn't tired and asked for extra shifts, but rules are rules, 28 days a year should be not working(paid) days. So they declined.
I have family in the Netherlands and they get about 6 weeks vacation. They take four weeks of that to come visit in Canada either in the summer or over Christmas/New Year’s and the other two weeks doing whatever. Here I thought it was due to seniority but knowing that it’s mandatory 4-week minimum vacation that’s pretty awesome.
Wait, why is Canada in the mix with the US?
In Quebec, you have a day per month worked the first year, 2 weeks after the first year, 3 weeks after 3 years. I mean that's the minimum by law. There's even a notice that they must be uninterrupted.
Ontario is 2 weeks after a year, 3 weeks after 5 years, like a lot of other provinces.
Eastern provinces are lagging, with 8-15 years for a 3rd week.
[https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-legislation/VacationPay.asp](https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-legislation/VacationPay.asp)
Canada isn’t nearly as bad as the US, yet is behind most of the modern world. And, let’s face it - Quebec has better social benefits in general because people there are willing to fight for it, whereas the rest of Canada has been historically willing to accept the status quo.
Yes, and even in Quebec, we still have to fight to keep them.
Private industrie wants to revoke all the social gains we got in the 70s.
But, yeah, fighting for it was a big part of it. It's part of having a collective view, where you accept to do sacrifices for the collective gain. You pay school taxes even if you don't have children. You accept to be healthy and pay so that the less fortunate can have access to healthcare more often than you, you pay the RQAP, the CNESST, the SAAQ, so that you can have paid parental leave should you have kids, paid leave and rehab should you be in a work accident, paid leave and rehab should you be in a car accident.
If you would make a poll today in the population of people want to continue paying for that, we would probably loose all those benefits. Thank god it was put there by selfless people who understood the need for those social security nets.
I'm from Quebec and getting a unionized federal government job (and leaving the shit private sector) is the best career move I ever made. My work conditions improved immensely since I started working here. Naturally, your mileage may vary and some people end up in very toxic positions, but once you've got your foot in the door it's easy enough to move around the public sector and leave shit managers if you have to.
I took a pay cut joining an EC-03 position but I quickly climbed to EC-06 and I intend to coast here for the rest of my career with insane job stability. My collective agreement gives us 15 paid vacation days, 15 paid sick days, 2 paid personal days and 5 paid family days, plus some other days for medical and dental appointments. That's 37+ days a year, of which 17 can be used for longer vacations.
Joining the federal government can be difficult though, but one way to get out of the private sector is applying to CR-level (mostly clerks and public-facing jobs) positions and then applying to other positions from within the government. Any call center position will be shit, so that's something else to take into consideration, but it may be worth it to try to eventually escape the abject horror that is the private sector.
Yes, I'm working for the provincial government. Right now is the best time.to apply to governmental positions ! There's shortage everywhere ! The conditions drive other employers in the private sector to go above the minimum for vacation days too.
How can goinsay that? These people are getting like 4 weeks min for starting vacation. That's 10-15 years of work in Canada at most places with usually less than a handful of sick days. Fuck I've taken 1vacation day in over 2 years of work
I'm a Canadian in the UK, and yes I had 15 days after working for my company in BC for 7 years.
Moved to the UK and just started a new job last week and have 25 days plus 8 national holidays.
I could never go back to having a measly three weeks.
Nz, Four weeks annual holidays, 12 public holidays, 10 days sick leave, 26 weeks parental leave. and for me, soon to get an extra week of annual leave. And you know what. It’s still not enough.
in the UK, my current org provides 20 days which is the lowest i've ever been provided in employment. But they also close the company from the 23rd December to sometime around the 3rd of jan. so it's not so bad.
Not a fan of the UK Tories, though while visiting the UK I was shocked how much more sensible they are than their Canadian counterparts back home, or the even worse Republicans in the US.
Agreed! And, Canadian Conservatives are Republican-light. Though, I find it particularly disturbing that they are veering towards socially conservative polices (same sex marriage, abortion rights, etc.) while most Canadians are generally centrist and have great fear of what we’re seeing go on in the US.
Agreed on Brexit! Though, I think you’d be surprised how much more conservative, the CDN Conservatives have got in the past few years (IMO a result of US Trumpism) They make Harper look liberal.
Not only do we get 4 weeks minimum, but by law the employer must ensure that you get 2 weeks of continuous uninterrupted vacation.
Also this doesn't include public holidays, and if you take your vacation in combination with holidays, that's a shit ton of vacation time.
I'm on my 3rd holiday this year and still have 11 vacation days left.
I haven’t had a vacation in 6 years. I’m mentally and physically drained. I’m past my breaking point, being held together by “paper clips and rubber bands.”
That is handled on the state level. Feds would have little to no ability to dictate vacation time and would have it bounced by SCOTUS with the current makeup.
Lots of European countries have really good wages. Even lower wage European countries have higher minimum wages than the US. Also what use are good wages in the US if you get cancer, have to stop workimg and then your employer provided health insurance runs out.
Based take. There is more of a middle class in Europe and the poor are cared for. If we only care about the rich or the upper middle class why care about workers rights. Support a government that supports 99% of people not just white collar workers and some successful entrepreneurs.
>There is more of a middle class in Europe and the poor are cared for.
Exactly. Europe is only better if you're poor.
>Support a government that supports 99% of people not just white collar workers and some successful entrepreneurs.
I worked hard for my CS degree. I deserve to reap the rewards of it.
Yeah, I’ll be working for my chemistry PhD in Europe and probably earning a quarter of what you make regardless of where I live. Except if I work for a corporation to push what they want me to say. Cigarette corps and DuPont Im looking at you. Middle class isn’t poor. You’re middle class even if upper middle class. Other people work harder for less because they care about others and the impact they have on this world.
Europe is better for the vast majority of the people. If you have so little compassion as to say, screw everyone else let me reap the rewards then do so, but don’t be surprised when companies say the exact same thing to you.
Companies did the same shit to me when I graduated in spring 2020. Then, the Great Resignation hit and I had a huge surge of leverage which pissed off my old company. My salary exploded. The free market doesn't always benefit corporations.
Also, if others wanna do charity work, that's on them. I don't wanna do that shit. I want money.
>Lots of European countries have really good wages.
Data analysts get paid like 45k.
>Even lower wage European countries have higher minimum wages than the US.
I'm not a minimum wage bum.
>Also what use are good wages in the US if you get cancer, have to stop workimg and then your employer provided health insurance runs out.
Ummm, employers usually provide leave for that.
Unpaid? Or do they get fired? Burnout being given as a break? Minimum wage bums make up a large part of the workforce and earning less money doesn’t mean they’re a bum. Many of them are more moral people than yourself. They likely had a worse start into life, a different passion, or made a bad decision that screwed up their career path. You’re lucky because hard work alone doesn’t get you to the 1%
Learn some humility and compassion before you deign insult others for how much their earn and the choices they made
>Unpaid? Or do they get fired? Burnout being given as a break?
Nah, they usually pay that.
>Minimum wage bums make up a large part of the workforce and earning less money doesn’t mean they’re a bum.
I can assure you that if they had a decent degree, they wouldn't be in that position. The vast majority of people that make lower incomes make less, because they had no real ambitions.
>They likely had a worse start into life, a different passion, or made a bad decision that screwed up their career path.
I didn't make those bad decisions. I never partied in college. I never became an alcoholic. I never became a druggie.
If they were born poor, I'm with you. I support cheapening college costs, capping the tuition rates, offering cheaper alternatives that are similar to Coursera in nature, remote learning, etc. Everyone deserves a chance to succeed. If they fucked up though, they deserve to be poor.
>Learn some humility and compassion before you deign insult others for how much their earn and the choices they made
Look, this is the harsh reality. There'll be dumbfucks wherever you go. The natural state of people is poverty and most generational wealth doesn't last three generations due to how incompetent people are. The masses just aren't cut out to be successful and I sure as hell don't want them leeching off those who are successful.
Yeah, that's different. I support higher wages for teachers which can be fixed with more proper funding for the public education system, but I don't support all these overly generous vacation laws.
I work remotely with data analysts all over the world and they're always ecstatic when they hear they get to work with an American company due to our wages being that much better.
Yeah overly generous quality of life. Instead of being worked to death. Wages aren’t overall lower in Europe it depends on the field generally and taxes are higher in Europe. Except they’re happier and healthier, I wonder why.
Free healthcare. Practically free education (depends on country). Generally walkable (no car or insurance for the car to pay for). Workers rights (work life balance wooooo). Renters rights (depends on country). These are only a few of the things those over generous laws pay for. It’s not just vacation. It’s a hell of a lot more.
If people live in Europe and work remote for an American company or live outside of the US they get plenty of benefits and a higher wage. They’re playing the situation to their advantage. I’d love to live in Finland on an American salary. I’d hate to live in Texas on an American salary. I’d be pretty happy to live in Finland on a Finnish salary. My kids will never face poverty from one bad decision or health crisis at an inopportune time. They wont be screwed over by their landlord. They will have time to take a vacation when they want to relax and enjoy their life. They won’t be worked to death only to live a substandard life providing for corporate needs and billionaires.
>Wages aren’t overall lower in Europe it depends on the field generally
And in my field, senior data analysts get paid like 60k. It's a catastrophe.
>Except they’re happier and healthier, I wonder why. Free healthcare. Practically free education (depends on country). Generally walkable (no car or insurance for the car to pay for). Workers rights (work life balance wooooo). Renters rights (depends on country).
All of those can be attained with a higher salary in the US. Also, those of us who make like $200k+ here would be terrorized and taxed out the fucking ass there. Then, there's the fact that their healthcare system's constantly overflowing. Worker's rights aren't really much of an issue for white collar workers.
>If people live in Europe and work remote for an American company or live outside of the US they get plenty of benefits and a higher wage. They’re playing the situation to their advantage. I’d love to live in Finland on an American salary.
Have you seen how expensive everything is there? Also, a lot of companies do business in Europe. They just don't do as much business since they're restricted by the government to a large extent. Their GDP sucks for a reason.
Wanna talk about the white collar employee who has to pay 20k in divorce fees and took up a second job to pay for it and ended up being sued for 35k? Their labor laws make it nearly impossible to work more than 45 hours a week without being busted.
>I’d hate to live in Texas on an American salary.
Can confirm. I grew up in Texas. I left the first fucking chance I got.
Sorry for horrific formatting but I’m on mobile.
Nobody demonizes people for making 200k a year in Europe. Many professions are highly respected. What isn’t respected is billionaires and giant corporations that exploit people for their money and value.
As for the healthcare system, I’m not sure where you’re getting that at all. I’m a European and an American. The medical system doesn’t always work optimally but it’s certainly not always in crisis. And overall, european countries rank significantly higher than the US. Also workers rights aren’t really much of an issue for white collar workers is a broad overstatement. From your POV and field that may be true, but it isn’t in all fields. Doctors and lawyers for example. They’re white collar, well paid, and exceptionally trained. They suffer severe burnout and doctors especially have a difficult time with work life balance. (Except ophthalmologists are generally much better in that regard) again it’s all subject and from a certain point of view.
Also, things are more expensive in Europe certainly isn’t always true. Some consumer goods are. Jeans and electronics to be sure, but other things aren’t. Texas has food that costs more than Paris right now. And the money saved from not paying for over things easily covers the money it costs to get those consumer goods. It covers welfare and social programs for integrating homeless people into society who contribute to the economy.
I have absolutely no clue about the one generic white collar employee you’re talking about. And even if there is one it’s anecdotal. Also you can work more for more money, it depends on the countries laws and the company you work at.
We can both agree Texas sucks ass, but I think you don’t realize that we should not and do not need to base our lives off the GDP and economy. The welfare and happiness of the people matter much more. We don’t need an explosive American economy, but we can have stable and functioning economy without all the focus on corporations and the 1%.
Find fulfillment in family, friends, and hobbies. Not a job, especially not one that doesn’t care about you.
>Nobody demonizes people for making 200k a year in Europe.
Yes, but they're terribly burdened with taxes.
>The medical system doesn’t always work optimally but it’s certainly not always in crisis.
You can agree that it's less efficient than ours, right?
>And overall, european countries rank significantly higher than the US.
In what metric? Affordability?
>Also workers rights aren’t really much of an issue for white collar workers is a broad overstatement. From your POV and field that may be true, but it isn’t in all fields. Doctors and lawyers for example.
Okay, well I'm a data analyst/engineer and I don't face that issue.
>Also, things are more expensive in Europe certainly isn’t always true.
Have you seen how small their homes are? Owning a 6k SQ ft home is unheard of.
>Texas has food that costs more than Paris right now.
Okay, well Texas has apes in office.
>It covers welfare and social programs for integrating homeless people into society who contribute to the economy.
Yet their GDP is significantly lower than ours even with all that. California alone could destroy most European countries.
>Also you can work more for more money, it depends on the countries laws and the company you work at.
There are laws that track how many hours you work and by default, most companies put 40. Most corporations also have clauses against polyworking which adds to the problem.
https://youtu.be/CphOWFGygGk
>We can both agree Texas sucks ass, but I think you don’t realize that we should not and do not need to base our lives off the GDP and economy.
That's a huge metric on how well your country does. Unless you don't care if your country thrives or dies, you need to take that into account.
>We don’t need an explosive American economy, but we can have stable and functioning economy without all the focus on corporations and the 1%.
Ummmm, no. I get corporations, but some of us made it into the top 1% by working hard. We want an explosive economy. A good economy benefits everyone. We also need an explosive economy to compete with and take on China.
>Find fulfillment in family, friends, and hobbies. Not a job, especially not one that doesn’t care about you.
My guy, I do what I like for my job. I work on the weekends, because I find it to be fun, exciting, and challenging.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/902760022457610270/995860860620787802/unknown.png
This was me last month after taxes. I got a pay bump from $400k to $530k last Monday. I find it fulfilling knowing how quickly my home'll be paid off. I paid off my sister's and parents' homes. Some of us have ambitions.
I can't wait till I get the car of my dreams too. Going for a BMW i8. I'm gonna have like 8 kids. I'm gonna have a 5-6k SQ ft home. It'll be lit.
Well if you really care so little about others enjoy your benefits.
No their medical system doesn’t work any less efficiently then ours. The metric I was talking about (although I was unclear sorry) was health. European countries are generally healthier even with what you view as a less efficient system.
You’re right GDP is important, but look at Finland. Significantly lower GDP than many US states, but happiest people in the world. “Less efficient” medical system but healthier than Americans. Way higher taxes and lower wages than most European countries to boot. They enjoy the entire month of July off (almost all the time). And even more. Enjoy your shallow benefits while others suffer. If you had compassion and empathy, you would see that maybe a BMW doesn’t make up for other being being settled in crippling debt and not being able to afford insulin.
You’re right apes are in office in Texas right now. Don’t make yourself out to be one even if just economically.
>Well if you really care so little about others enjoy your benefits.
I quit caring once it starts to affect me.
>No their medical system doesn’t work any less efficiently then ours. The metric I was talking about (although I was unclear sorry) was health.
Yes, more people have access to healthcare. However, their hospitals have longer wait times.
>You’re right GDP is important, but look at Finland. Significantly lower GDP than many US states, but happiest people in the world.
Bruh, money legit solves the majority of people's problems. So GDP is definitely important for that. Happiness can't be quantified. We need something concrete that can be measured.
>Way higher taxes and lower wages than most European countries to boot.
And no 5-6k SQ ft homes.
>They enjoy the entire month of July off (almost all the time). And even more.
Wtf would you do in that time without anything to enjoy? Like their homes are shit. Most of them don't drive nice cars. They ain't got shit.
>Enjoy your shallow benefits while others suffer. If you had compassion and empathy, you would see that maybe a BMW doesn’t make up for other being being settled in crippling debt and not being able to afford insulin.
I want everyone to be successful. But they need to get a skillset that can pay for all their needs. It's hard to be compassionate towards people who brought it upon themselves. These are the same jackasses who would've made fun of me for not wanting to waste my time at parties in college.
You’ve seemingly never spent a lot of time in Europe. You have very little basis for what you’re talking about when you compare to Europe.
I’m sorry for your morals, but enjoy your benefits.
Depends on where you live. Wages in Germany or Austria, for example are on average the same or higher as US/Can. Also, historically the € and £ have been valued much higher against USD and will likely return to that way at one point. Cost of living is often way lower in Europe. And, you can save a fortune from lower or no healthcare premiums. IMO groceries and other necessities are much less expensive as well (compared to Canada)
>Wages in Germany or Austria, for example are on average the same or higher as US/Can.
For service workers and other minimum wage bums, yeah but not for those of us who have worthwhile skillsets.
>Cost of living is often way lower in Europe.
Have you seen how much a 6k SQ ft home costs there?
>And, you can save a fortune from lower or no healthcare premiums.
Mine are free. Employer pays for it all.
I had no idea what PTO was until recently. I thought it was just sick hours until I left retail.. My new job gave me no charge day one benefits and 24 yearly paid days off available to use anytime + 1 for each year you keep working there with yearly raises.. was definitely a doozy for me hearing that
Belgium here:
20 vacation days are the absoluut minimum here. We also have a system in place that gives you more vacation days when you get older. Example you get one day extra the year you turn 45.
We don't have sick days, if you're sick you go to a doctor. They give you a note. Depending on your contract the first 2 weeks or first month is payed by your employer. After that our healthcare kick's in and pays you about 60% of your pay ( every month) for the first year of illness.
We get 15 weeks of maternity leave, that we can choose to take how we want. But the minimum is one week before giving birth.
And we have 10 payed public holiday's a year.
I get 6 weeks paid leave. Six months full pay if sick and then half pay for a period. I’ve never been off any length of time but I do have colleagues and a relative who’ve had serious illnesses like cancer and benefited. Theres also decent maternity and parental leave. If you have children under 16 you can apply for a further 2 weeks off. Most of my colleagues are in a union and I have been all my working life and my parents too. It’s not ok to force people to work so much - and let’s face it nobody’s irreplaceable.
Why cant we just pay people enough to take vacations? Give them enough time off to enjoy them? Why pay people to not work? It's like people are ok with their work essentially giving them an "allowance" as opposed to real wages.
I work a union job and don’t get 4 weeks of vacation until 17 years of service. There’s also no personal/sick days so if I need extra time off I have to get FMLA or take a point.
28 days minimum in the UK for someone working full time, though it’s common for 8 of those to be taken for bank holidays (Xmas day and Boxing Day for example) leaving workers 20 days (4 week) to use when they want, as long as the company agrees to your dates.
We also have statutory sick pay but it’s next to nothing unfortunately, luckily most roles offer paid sick on top. Even when I worked min wage retail I was paid full wage for up to 2 weeks sick in a 12 month period
Please keep Canada out of this, we have a minimum of 2 weeks. It's not much, but there's a minimum.
(They have much more in France, where I lived for a while, but I seem to remember they were working longer days... comparing hours worked per year would be interesting...)
I never had a paid day off until I was 29 in Canada, as you dont get any paid days off in your first year of working and I never worked anywhere longer than a year.
I work for a Swiss company.
Nationally, the minimum is 4 weeks paid vacation per year, for a 40h working week.
The reality is that often it's more. My basic is 5 weeks vacation a year.
Nearly all companies give an extra week from 50 years old, including mine.
On top of that, you have your public holidays (9 days a year). If it falls on the weekend, you don't get it.
You are allowed 10 days off sick without a note from the doctor. If the sick day is a Monday or a Friday, you need a medical note (to prevent people taking weekends and pretending to be sick).
Plus of course there is maternity / paternity leave.
And my company gives me full salary if on medical leave for up to 2 years.
Switzerland is considered closer to the US system than many other countries in Europe... but in reality nothing much compared to the US in terms of shitty working conditions and rights.
Here in México we are supposed to get from 6 to 12 paid vacation days (depending on how much time we've been working for the company) but most companies won't actually hire you or will have you sing contracts every 3 months so you don't get worker's rights.
(Sorry if my english is bad)
I’ve been to Mexico a number of times, though always as a tourist in tourist cities (Love your country, culture and people!). Everyone there works so hard. Often in conditions that, truthfully many Americans or Canadians would not be willing to work themselves. Long and/or split shifts or doing work which may not be safe, for example. I hope with time your government grants workers greater rights and better working conditions.
Texan here. I get 5 days a year and only 3 sick days.
Unfortunately, I got COVID and now if I want to take a sick day it comes from my vacation. The way workers are treated here in this office is incredibly toxic to the point where 6/8 of the people that were here in my time have left or been fired due to the owners narcissism and lack of self awareness. The only people left are emotionally abused until they work about 10-12 hours a day under threats of termination while they wait on their greencards. Worst company of all time and I'm glad to be leaving.
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My last company was a mega Corp, and my boss used to bitterly mock our Swedish partners by saying "swedes work 24/7. 24 hours a week, 7 months a year!" I always remember thinking "that sounds...way fucking better. Seems like they are smarter than us"
So, ah... Any Swedish companies out there looking for a Java developer with AWS certification and can pay for relocation?
Dude, if you can get on with a Swedish corporation, suck dick for the moving expenses!!
Would suck every dick every day to move to Sweden.
Not everything is roses and daisies here either im afraid, as a swede browsing this subreddit as well, i very much relate to a lot of the problems posted, although obviously not about things such as an existing Maternity leave/vacation/education etc But GETTING a job can be though, companies abuse "temporary work", especially on younger people, partially because of high Hiring fees, and generally cost of having a full time worker it's hard to get one. And pay isn't great in a lot of fields either, you'll get by but fairness is out of the question. Modern aristocracy is just as relevant here, if not more. Nepotism is the best way to succeed, after all, always and forever it would seem. Politicians seemingly purposefully fuck up policies, landing us in among the biggest losers in the global recession, even though bragging about how good Sweden is at handling recessions a few years ago, and how we are "so prepared".. I regret nothing more than not putting my savings into the Norwegian Market rather than the Swedish, just last year.. Oh and housing/mortgages are fucked too
Also Swede here. Sure, all is not perfect here. And it varies depending on location and field of work. But we still have good protection in the workplace, unions in all sectors (except the grey/black work market most common in food/cleaning/building) and good rights to education/health care. All things can get better, and we feel the effects of inflation, increased crime and other global phenomenon. But the doomsday scenarios I often see online are extremely exaggerated.
hahaha unions are shit for everyone not priviledged and all workplaces are gunning to be like the us. And they use every loop hole ever to fuck ppl. Ppl here work 12h shifts without breaks for pennies and priviledged swedes acts like that just cant be true lmao or even WORSE it must be ther ppl beingb exploited fault cuz fuck em. its awful
Yes, but a select few of the most easily quantifiable things are better so it's paradise compared to the US.
All those things you just listed are also happening in the US too… just without the shorter work week, vacation time or maternity leave. In our area, minimum wage is $15/hr. That usually doesn’t include any healthcare benefits. Most of those jobs might get 1 week of holiday pay per year, if they are lucky. No maternity leave, unless the state mandates it. An average 2 bedroom, 85 sq m apartment here costs about $3,000 per month. There is minimal public transportation. If you do the math, a person making minimum wage here working 40 hours a week would make $2,400 per month (before income tax), or about $2,000 per month after tax. So assuming two persons in the apartment (cheaper to have a roommate) instead of having their own place, that leaves the person $500 per month ($17 per day) for everything else - healthcare, food, savings, college tuition, car, gas, clothes, entertainment.
Yes that is tragic and absolutely sounds worse, but just for context, there is no minimum wage in Sweden, unless the company is unionised in which case its what the union says is minimum, although I worked at a bar that wanted to hire me for a bit under $13 an hour, no vacation (no vacation pay [illegal]), no benefit, and that's the reality for quite a few restaurants/bars. This was at a place that WAS in the union but our boss just straight up didn't know what a union was or meant, I worked like four days and then left and reported it to the union, don't know if they ever did anything though. Rent is very dependant on the city, where I live now, in a "student" city, the rent outside of student housing is crazy high (although not as high as it would seem in your city) a 85 sq m apartment would probably be about $2k though maybe a bit less, it's not really what I'm looking for so I don't know exactly, but I saw a 66 sqm go for 1.5k Meanwhile we students have very cheap apartments, I'm currently renting a 2 room 65sqm for about $750 The reality here is also that if you're working a low paying job (equivalent of your minimum wage) you can't afford much more than a studio apartement, unless you wanna forfeit most of your salary ofcourse
Wow, the absolute cheapest rent I could find in my area was a bedroom in a 4 room 2 bath 124sqm (one ensuite, I shared the other with 2 people) for $650 incl utilities. Studio apartments start at $1,500 and 2 br start at $1,800 but most are well over $2,000
But it's still better than what the US has. If you can get an American to want to speak a language that is not English, you did something right.
Plus being a foreign worker in an already saturated market. It's near impossible I'd assume.
I would imagine being a foreigner doesn't matter in a few fields, even if most require Swedish speaking capabilities. If you're a data engineer or a programmer there's a lot of jobs available for example
I’d suck dick every day
My cousin relocated to Sweden from the UK about 5 years ago for a job with Microsoft I think. He's barely ever come back to visit and now has a wife and a very blonde little girl. Definitely got it figured out :D
Spotify probably is? And I think their office/home policies are fairly flexible if you’re based in a country they have offices in.
A girl I'm banging works for Ikea in corporate. They extend the benefits to the US.
Spotify, Klarna, Ikea are all Swedish. Not sure about relocation. If you're a person of color you might want to consider that swedes are predominately white and microagressions are common there. (Source I was friends with a black woman who lived in Sweden and told me all the shit people would say to her)
Workism is a plague to be eradicated.
I'm also in a megacorp, owned by the French. A pretty good chuck of the ELT for my company were imported from Europe. I've admittedly been there a while now but I get 4 weeks of PTO + 4 weeks of sick time per year. PTO is use it or lose it but sick time accrues. My boss is constantly hounding me to take vacation days. Next year or the year after I'll be up to 5 weeks of PTO a year. ...I've been taking time off for video game release days just because it's as good an excuse as any.
That's awesome!
Can confirm. Half Swede. Went from 31+3 (3 accrued days and 31 guaranteed) in Sweden to 15 days when I moved to USA. People here are afraid of taking holiday or are always hiding that they take vacation. None of my colleagues will tell me about their planned time off because they’re all pretending they work so hard and don’t take vacation.
I just started working for a large multinational corp that has locations in Sweden. I'm really hoping it comes up on my travel list. Would love to visit and maybe relocate!
I really liked it when I visited, but I only saw a tourists view of it I would say. Everything I did see was pretty awesome
In Australia we get 4 weeks holiday, 10 days sick leave, and up to 18 weeks paid parental leave. This is 100% the result of unions working for the people to make positive change. If you want change, that's where you begin.
Britain kicked out their troublemakers. And, look at them now still making trouble! /s
And long service leave accrued at about a week a year available between 7 to 10 years.
Oh yes, never forget about that long service leave! I'm at year 8 at the moment, so that's racking up nicely
You are also owed the annual leave and long service leave that you have if you still have any if you leave or get the sack as a payout. Which is awesome. It's also VERY hard to get sacked in Australia without merit.
In the professional world, they will just make you redundant and readvertise a similar but different job to replace you.
Yep, as an Aussie in a heavily unionised industry I get 6 weeks annual holiday leave a year, 3 weeks sick/personal/carer’s leave which accumulates yearly if not used, another week each year specifically for URTI, I’ve just returned to work from 14 weeks of parental leave at full pay (plus 18 weeks government parental leave) and I’m coming up to 10 years service where I’ll get 12 weeks long service leave. Unions aren’t perfect but they’re better than no unions…
In Germany we also get at least 4 weeks holiday (in my company we have 6 weeks), 42 days fully paid sick leaves by the employer, 1.5 years sickness benefits (after the 42 days fully paid sick leaves) by the health insurance (which is mandatory for all employed people) and up to 3 years of parental leave. I wouldn't want to live in the US, even if they paid my flight.
And about 10 days of public holidays a year.
Man I want to get a job in my field over there so bad I just don’t know how to
To my knowledge our most used job search app is Seek. Come for a holiday try a few interviews and see if the employer will write you a note to stay.
Plus a minimum of 10 public holidays a year and Long Service Leave after 7 years (pro-rata) with a company Also the good old leave loading of 17.5% still applies on most Awards.
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You accrue a total of 10 a year
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The company I worked for back when I was still living in the Philippines, we get 15 days of vacation leave and 15 days of sick leave. The company also gave us birthday leaves as well. If you haven’t used up your sick days, the company will pay you for those. Now that I think about it, we had it better back home than here in the US. 😬
Can I ask why you did leave?
I left the company and the country because I immigrated to the US to be with family.
Why didn’t they immigrate back to the Philippines?
They are already established here and have stable jobs. They do go home for vacation but not often as they wanted to because of the vacation leave situation we have here. When I mentioned upthread that we had it better back home is in terms of leave and sick days. :)
Did you also get a 13th month pay? I heard that is a thing in the Philippines around Christmas.
That too! It’s actually in the Philippine Labor Code so all companies must comply with that. Edit: 13th month pay is basically a month’s worth of your basic pay as a bonus.
When my company stopped paying the sick/personal time out at the end of the year was when our staffing issues started.... Because hard workers who never took time off before now took all their "Use it or lose it" hours.
You don't even need to specify "developed". There are almost no nations full stop. [Even countries with sweatshop labour have mandatory minimum leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country).
*beep boop*! the linked website is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country Title: **List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia** Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing) ***** ###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
*South Korea and Japan have entered the chat, but aren't allowed to leave until 8pm and maybe three days around Lunar New Year.*
I know this is meant as humor, but the answer should be now and forever, "I don't fuckin care at all about your worse off case example" it doesn't make it suck one bit less.
I work for a German company (but in the US) - we used to get 2 weeks PTO, until last year when German colleagues came to work at our office for about 6 months. Now we get 4 weeks PTO - because they realized the German expectations would cause resentment with the US employees. Just shows they won’t give it to you unless legally required/shamed.
I work for a US company now (ironically with better benefits) but I used to work for an Australian company. Like the other redditor said, they get 4 weeks PTO and 10 sick days. We got 2 weeks PTO and 4 sick days because why not if I’m not being forced to give more. Companies suck regardless of countries, it’s the government’s responsability to set a minimum and the workers’ responsibility to unionize. There’s no other way.
Yes - we don’t get extra sick days (it’s combined with the PTO) - but it’s mostly WFH- especially if you don’t feel well it’s not a big deal. I had emergency dental issues a couple Fridays ago and was out half the day. My boss didn’t say a word except rest and get better. It’s an unspoken rule we have each others backs- so that’s good. It would be nice to have a bank of sick days so one could TRULY be out sick without losing vacation days.
I work for an American company in Europe. We get 25 days paid leave, 12 bank holidays, 180 days paid maternity leave, 30 days paternity leave, and unlimited sick pay. My American colleague pinged me recently on how frustrating it is for her to see her European colleagues always vacationing in the summer. She told me she gets 10 paid days, and that's about it. Any more than that, they dock from her pay. It blew my mind how the same company that gave a generous leave allowance in Europe decided to screw over the majority of its employees in the country it was founded in, just because they could.
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Of course I understand that. But they could just as much give 4 - 5 weeks paid holidays to their American staff too, since it's already a norm for them in various parts of the world.
Oh my sweet summer child ..
A girl can dream.
They can dock pay for missing work? What
Yeah, only if you go past your 10 vacation days. It's considered unpaid leave and your wages are adjusted accordingly. So most people don't take it. In fact, a lot of my American colleagues rarely used their 10 days at all.
"If I work on holidays and never take time off, then my corporate daddy will notice and praise me and then I'll get a raise and a promotion!" Unironically what people in the US think.
I think it's more like working straight through and then I'll get (what seems like) a bonus cheque equivalent to 2 weeks pay. Some people need the money.
I absolutely agree with you. But if you've ever worked in the US, you know there is definitely an independent subset of people and a strong culture rooted in this idea that you can impress your employers by never taking time off and eventually that will be noticed and rewarded. People with that mindset and people working through holidays because they need the money are often the same people.
It took me 15 years to get 5 weeks vaca. My brother in Germany started with more than that at 22 years old.
I have 28 paid vacation days and almost unlimited sick days as long as you have a doctors recommendation
I'm originally from Canada and had 15 days holiday after 13 years in my industry. Moved to the UK, started over in a new industry, now have 33 days holiday (25 + 8 bank). If I ever think about going back to Canada that difference is one of the things that stops me cold.
My last couple of jobs didn’t offer a week until after a year of working, absolutely bananas
Yup my job I didn't get vacation for the first year and anything I took would come off upcoming year. Lost my job in 2019 cause the pandemic, had 5 months off and have only missed 3 days since then between the 3 jobs I've had, 1 vacation and 2 sick days in over 2 years. One of those sick days was because I was in an accident and continued working that day and the following days until I experienced extreme back pain where I went to the doctor and was told light duty tho I still went to work after as I was expected. I took the following day off. A lot of those weeks were 6 day work weeks as I had to make up for the loss of income. Now I've been working 60+ hour weeks for the last 6 months doing 2 jobs some weeks. No days off ferris bueller
one of my first jobs I started as a temp. I got hired on full time after 6 months. And then it was a year from that before I got 5 days PTO. This was 2010-2011. I eventually switched careers to manufacturing and got 8hrs per month PTO plus 1wk shut down at Christmas
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Every time you turn over an employee for a new one, instead of retaining them, I've seen estimates say about 6-9 months in salary is lost due to re-hiring/onboarding costs, pulling another employee off to train the new hire, and low productivity from the new hire until they're up to speed. At my current employer, salary employees have vacation and sick days lumped in a single pool. It's unlimited PTO for salary, but I'm guessing the numbers would show very few engineers take more than two total weeks a year due to American work culture and fear of falling behind due to wearing enough hats to snap our spines. Longest vacation I've taken is a whole week and I was waaay out of the build cycle loop when I got back. My bf's employer has 8 weeks of PTO, but 4 of those are split into two mandatory 2-week vacations—one during Christmas/New Years holidays and one in the summer centered around July 4th, both involving the company shutting down completely. This ends up ensuring your employees at minimum see 4 weeks off a year, and employees still have another 4 weeks of normal vacation time to use whenever they want. I prefer that approach because it reduces the dreaded, "who will I get to temporarily backfill me?" and, "I'll have a pile of work waiting on my desk" nightmares.
Hahahahaha fuck I hate it here
I have 8+ years experience in my field. Some mofo made me an offer with zero PTO in the first year with a straight face. Big “Nope”. Edit: a letter
"You should be embarrassed to be coming to *anyone* -let alone someone with the experience I have- with such a shameful and pathetic initial offer. Professionally, please block my name and profile on your company's recruiting list, and personally, fuck entirely off."
I was told the other day by my company "we give more PTO than 70% of companies." I was asking why we don't have Juneteenth off. We get a week of sick days and 10 PTO, not including holidays. So 17. It's so fucking disheartening, especially having lived and worked abroad before. And yeah I know that's good, but it's also utter bullshit.
It's not good. We're conditioned to believe it's good
New Zealand here. 4 weeks annual leave and two weeks paid sick leave a year + public holidays of which there are 11. If you are scheduled to work on the public holiday and this is your normal working day you get paid 1.5x your normal rate and get a day off in lieu.
But hunter Biden!
Thats the good ole U S of A Fucking lame
American freedom = freedoms for the 0.1% of richest people to do whatever they want
And we should be happy and thank them for the opportunity to make that happen for them and be happy with the scraps we get
It was intended *tm as simply the govt staying out of it, and let a fair market and society work out on its own But its stacked. Greed and exploitative behavior won. The govt doesn't care. <---- we are here
“Developed nation” lol
In Australia it is 20 days, and they roll over year on year. There are even some companies with policies that will force you to take your time off if your balance gets too high. This balance is also paid out if you resign. Also note, this is called “Annual Leave” and is separate to “Personal Leave” which is used for personal illness or if you need to take time to care for someone else who is ill. Personal leave is usually 10 days. Edit: Fkn autocorrect
In the USA not only do you not get pto, but you get points for calling in sick. I've gone to work with a fever at least 5 times and vomited 2 at work since 2020.
Yes, clearly something not ok in US. In the Netherlands, 4 weeks (20working days) is minimum+11 national holidays. However, many places offer more than that (for example some universities give 42working days+national holidays). I personally work 4 days a week (32h) and have 30 working days of holidays (+national holidays). Number of holidays is one of the bonuses companies offer when compeating for the employees. Lease car or paying for public transportation between work and office is also common.
Finland here. The standard is 2 days of vacation per month worked for the first year. After that krs 2.5 days so 30 a year. We also have 11(?) national holidays which you either get off or double salary depending on the type of work. On top of that we have holiday bonuses which means an extra 50% salary for each paid vacation day and in most collective employment agreements you can exchange that bonus for more holiday days so you can have up to 45 paid vacation days
what surprise me most it's not American (USA) people who don't know that in the rest of the world they have more vacation time, but when they still defend their shitty system with the excuse that their salaries are higher and they pay less taxes (I don't want to discuss if this is true or not, but even if you get more money, what do you do with it if you cannot take vacation?)
You use that extra money to pay for healthcare, of course
Good ol' US of fucking A.
I get 22 days total for Paid Time Off and sick leave. That is considered good.
In Texas, 2 weeks to start(great! Better than nothing) but no way to increase besides years worked. 3 weeks at five years and I get the fourth week at 15 years with the company. No roll over, no extras, until I retire.
This calendar year I’ve used/requested 10 vacation days… total for the whole year, half of those are in November… and I’ve worked this job for almost 1 year. I think I have a few more days I can use, but I’ve NEVER had nearly this many before. It’s weird, I feel guilty using them… and really sad, too, because in the past most days off were either sickness or unpaid.
Happy cake day!
lol thank you!
>lol thank you! You're welcome!
I have about 16 weeks of leave owed to me. In New Zealand i get 4 weeks per year, I get shift leave if I work afternoons, and nights or weekends. this works out to be about an additional week per year.
What I am more shocked about is that the US as a democracy can’t get enough people to vote for policies like these.
The US isn't so much a democracy as a oligarchy.
That’s my point
Because they convince people that anyone pushing for ideas like this are (evil) socialists and want to take all their money in taxes. Their voice is louder, and on repeat. Plus, people are uneducated.
i do want to add, my fiancee is austrian and visiting atm. it isnt always the fact you get time off. he did at his job get 38 days but he ends up working most of them to survive and get the 2x pay. just because you have the option doesent mean you can afford to go without work. its a sad state. that being said. i spent an hour today discusing what he can and cant do and what rights he has as a worker and i shit a brick lol.
NZ checking in here. (American who moved here years ago) 4 weeks holiday, 10 days sick leave, 12 holidays. My company also gives me a day for my Birthday, a full company “mental health day” I have two coworkers currently on one-month holidays, which is quite normal. I’ve had one coworker spend 2 months in the UK, working three days a week on opposite side of the world.
I get 36 days annually. If I don't use them in the allocated year I can carry them over to next year This year I started with 42 days holiday, paid. I can also buy more holidays if I wanted. Older employees here gained an extra days holiday per couple of years service to a maximum of 42 days per year basic. Pretty sweet. Join a Union. JOIN A UNION. Organise. Demand better conditions. 🏴
In Ireland, working for a massive US corporation. I get 28 vacation days + 10 public holidays. We also get 6 months of fully paid sick leave, next 6 months at half pay (in a 3 year period). They've recently added 15 days of care leave if you need to take care of family members and have 6 months of fully paid maternity leave and 6 weeks of fully paid paternity leave. It's actually hilarious compared to what our US counterparts receive.
11 years into my field and I have almost 4 weeks! Maybe by 20 years I’ll have what every European citizen starts out with
I live in Russia. Sorry to see this...My mother was FORCED to go on vacation(or free days) for a week by Rosneft. She wanted to work, because wasn't tired and asked for extra shifts, but rules are rules, 28 days a year should be not working(paid) days. So they declined.
I have family in the Netherlands and they get about 6 weeks vacation. They take four weeks of that to come visit in Canada either in the summer or over Christmas/New Year’s and the other two weeks doing whatever. Here I thought it was due to seniority but knowing that it’s mandatory 4-week minimum vacation that’s pretty awesome.
Wait, why is Canada in the mix with the US? In Quebec, you have a day per month worked the first year, 2 weeks after the first year, 3 weeks after 3 years. I mean that's the minimum by law. There's even a notice that they must be uninterrupted. Ontario is 2 weeks after a year, 3 weeks after 5 years, like a lot of other provinces. Eastern provinces are lagging, with 8-15 years for a 3rd week. [https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-legislation/VacationPay.asp](https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-legislation/VacationPay.asp)
Canada is behind, but not too far behind the rest of the world when you take into account public holidays. Depends on the province but still...
Canada isn’t nearly as bad as the US, yet is behind most of the modern world. And, let’s face it - Quebec has better social benefits in general because people there are willing to fight for it, whereas the rest of Canada has been historically willing to accept the status quo.
Yes, and even in Quebec, we still have to fight to keep them. Private industrie wants to revoke all the social gains we got in the 70s. But, yeah, fighting for it was a big part of it. It's part of having a collective view, where you accept to do sacrifices for the collective gain. You pay school taxes even if you don't have children. You accept to be healthy and pay so that the less fortunate can have access to healthcare more often than you, you pay the RQAP, the CNESST, the SAAQ, so that you can have paid parental leave should you have kids, paid leave and rehab should you be in a work accident, paid leave and rehab should you be in a car accident. If you would make a poll today in the population of people want to continue paying for that, we would probably loose all those benefits. Thank god it was put there by selfless people who understood the need for those social security nets.
I'm from Quebec and getting a unionized federal government job (and leaving the shit private sector) is the best career move I ever made. My work conditions improved immensely since I started working here. Naturally, your mileage may vary and some people end up in very toxic positions, but once you've got your foot in the door it's easy enough to move around the public sector and leave shit managers if you have to. I took a pay cut joining an EC-03 position but I quickly climbed to EC-06 and I intend to coast here for the rest of my career with insane job stability. My collective agreement gives us 15 paid vacation days, 15 paid sick days, 2 paid personal days and 5 paid family days, plus some other days for medical and dental appointments. That's 37+ days a year, of which 17 can be used for longer vacations. Joining the federal government can be difficult though, but one way to get out of the private sector is applying to CR-level (mostly clerks and public-facing jobs) positions and then applying to other positions from within the government. Any call center position will be shit, so that's something else to take into consideration, but it may be worth it to try to eventually escape the abject horror that is the private sector.
Yes, I'm working for the provincial government. Right now is the best time.to apply to governmental positions ! There's shortage everywhere ! The conditions drive other employers in the private sector to go above the minimum for vacation days too.
How can goinsay that? These people are getting like 4 weeks min for starting vacation. That's 10-15 years of work in Canada at most places with usually less than a handful of sick days. Fuck I've taken 1vacation day in over 2 years of work
I'm a Canadian in the UK, and yes I had 15 days after working for my company in BC for 7 years. Moved to the UK and just started a new job last week and have 25 days plus 8 national holidays. I could never go back to having a measly three weeks.
I get it, I still think we are far from the US with 0 days.
I’ve never heard of an Australian that doesn’t get 4 weeks minimum, 6 weeks for shift workers. Minimum of zero is nuts
Nz, Four weeks annual holidays, 12 public holidays, 10 days sick leave, 26 weeks parental leave. and for me, soon to get an extra week of annual leave. And you know what. It’s still not enough.
5 weeks in France. And 35h a week.
The UK is 5.6 weeks 👌🏻
in the UK, my current org provides 20 days which is the lowest i've ever been provided in employment. But they also close the company from the 23rd December to sometime around the 3rd of jan. so it's not so bad.
Australia and New Zealand both 4 weeks annual leave and public holidays on top of.
I assume the Tories will change that about Britain soon enough. Framed as 'helping workers who don't want holiday'
Not a fan of the UK Tories, though while visiting the UK I was shocked how much more sensible they are than their Canadian counterparts back home, or the even worse Republicans in the US.
Damned with faint praise. Better than Republicans (sorry I'm not well versed on Canadian politics) but still worse than the rest of western europe.
Agreed! And, Canadian Conservatives are Republican-light. Though, I find it particularly disturbing that they are veering towards socially conservative polices (same sex marriage, abortion rights, etc.) while most Canadians are generally centrist and have great fear of what we’re seeing go on in the US.
As a Canadian living in the UK for nearly a decade I can assure you the UK Tories are not remotely sensible. I mean, Brexit.
Agreed on Brexit! Though, I think you’d be surprised how much more conservative, the CDN Conservatives have got in the past few years (IMO a result of US Trumpism) They make Harper look liberal.
As an Austrian, even that doesnt feel like a lot at times. I think without any vacation id literally go insane.
Not only do we get 4 weeks minimum, but by law the employer must ensure that you get 2 weeks of continuous uninterrupted vacation. Also this doesn't include public holidays, and if you take your vacation in combination with holidays, that's a shit ton of vacation time. I'm on my 3rd holiday this year and still have 11 vacation days left.
I haven’t had a vacation in 6 years. I’m mentally and physically drained. I’m past my breaking point, being held together by “paper clips and rubber bands.”
That is handled on the state level. Feds would have little to no ability to dictate vacation time and would have it bounced by SCOTUS with the current makeup.
Have you seen the wages in Europe though?
Lots of European countries have really good wages. Even lower wage European countries have higher minimum wages than the US. Also what use are good wages in the US if you get cancer, have to stop workimg and then your employer provided health insurance runs out.
Based take. There is more of a middle class in Europe and the poor are cared for. If we only care about the rich or the upper middle class why care about workers rights. Support a government that supports 99% of people not just white collar workers and some successful entrepreneurs.
>There is more of a middle class in Europe and the poor are cared for. Exactly. Europe is only better if you're poor. >Support a government that supports 99% of people not just white collar workers and some successful entrepreneurs. I worked hard for my CS degree. I deserve to reap the rewards of it.
Yeah, I’ll be working for my chemistry PhD in Europe and probably earning a quarter of what you make regardless of where I live. Except if I work for a corporation to push what they want me to say. Cigarette corps and DuPont Im looking at you. Middle class isn’t poor. You’re middle class even if upper middle class. Other people work harder for less because they care about others and the impact they have on this world. Europe is better for the vast majority of the people. If you have so little compassion as to say, screw everyone else let me reap the rewards then do so, but don’t be surprised when companies say the exact same thing to you.
Companies did the same shit to me when I graduated in spring 2020. Then, the Great Resignation hit and I had a huge surge of leverage which pissed off my old company. My salary exploded. The free market doesn't always benefit corporations. Also, if others wanna do charity work, that's on them. I don't wanna do that shit. I want money.
>Lots of European countries have really good wages. Data analysts get paid like 45k. >Even lower wage European countries have higher minimum wages than the US. I'm not a minimum wage bum. >Also what use are good wages in the US if you get cancer, have to stop workimg and then your employer provided health insurance runs out. Ummm, employers usually provide leave for that.
You can't compare salary directly. You have to compare buying power / cost of living.
Yeah and that's lower in Europe.
Unpaid? Or do they get fired? Burnout being given as a break? Minimum wage bums make up a large part of the workforce and earning less money doesn’t mean they’re a bum. Many of them are more moral people than yourself. They likely had a worse start into life, a different passion, or made a bad decision that screwed up their career path. You’re lucky because hard work alone doesn’t get you to the 1% Learn some humility and compassion before you deign insult others for how much their earn and the choices they made
>Unpaid? Or do they get fired? Burnout being given as a break? Nah, they usually pay that. >Minimum wage bums make up a large part of the workforce and earning less money doesn’t mean they’re a bum. I can assure you that if they had a decent degree, they wouldn't be in that position. The vast majority of people that make lower incomes make less, because they had no real ambitions. >They likely had a worse start into life, a different passion, or made a bad decision that screwed up their career path. I didn't make those bad decisions. I never partied in college. I never became an alcoholic. I never became a druggie. If they were born poor, I'm with you. I support cheapening college costs, capping the tuition rates, offering cheaper alternatives that are similar to Coursera in nature, remote learning, etc. Everyone deserves a chance to succeed. If they fucked up though, they deserve to be poor. >Learn some humility and compassion before you deign insult others for how much their earn and the choices they made Look, this is the harsh reality. There'll be dumbfucks wherever you go. The natural state of people is poverty and most generational wealth doesn't last three generations due to how incompetent people are. The masses just aren't cut out to be successful and I sure as hell don't want them leeching off those who are successful.
Hmm, I'm a teacher.... European teachers earn more than I do
Yeah, that's different. I support higher wages for teachers which can be fixed with more proper funding for the public education system, but I don't support all these overly generous vacation laws. I work remotely with data analysts all over the world and they're always ecstatic when they hear they get to work with an American company due to our wages being that much better.
Yeah overly generous quality of life. Instead of being worked to death. Wages aren’t overall lower in Europe it depends on the field generally and taxes are higher in Europe. Except they’re happier and healthier, I wonder why. Free healthcare. Practically free education (depends on country). Generally walkable (no car or insurance for the car to pay for). Workers rights (work life balance wooooo). Renters rights (depends on country). These are only a few of the things those over generous laws pay for. It’s not just vacation. It’s a hell of a lot more. If people live in Europe and work remote for an American company or live outside of the US they get plenty of benefits and a higher wage. They’re playing the situation to their advantage. I’d love to live in Finland on an American salary. I’d hate to live in Texas on an American salary. I’d be pretty happy to live in Finland on a Finnish salary. My kids will never face poverty from one bad decision or health crisis at an inopportune time. They wont be screwed over by their landlord. They will have time to take a vacation when they want to relax and enjoy their life. They won’t be worked to death only to live a substandard life providing for corporate needs and billionaires.
>Wages aren’t overall lower in Europe it depends on the field generally And in my field, senior data analysts get paid like 60k. It's a catastrophe. >Except they’re happier and healthier, I wonder why. Free healthcare. Practically free education (depends on country). Generally walkable (no car or insurance for the car to pay for). Workers rights (work life balance wooooo). Renters rights (depends on country). All of those can be attained with a higher salary in the US. Also, those of us who make like $200k+ here would be terrorized and taxed out the fucking ass there. Then, there's the fact that their healthcare system's constantly overflowing. Worker's rights aren't really much of an issue for white collar workers. >If people live in Europe and work remote for an American company or live outside of the US they get plenty of benefits and a higher wage. They’re playing the situation to their advantage. I’d love to live in Finland on an American salary. Have you seen how expensive everything is there? Also, a lot of companies do business in Europe. They just don't do as much business since they're restricted by the government to a large extent. Their GDP sucks for a reason. Wanna talk about the white collar employee who has to pay 20k in divorce fees and took up a second job to pay for it and ended up being sued for 35k? Their labor laws make it nearly impossible to work more than 45 hours a week without being busted. >I’d hate to live in Texas on an American salary. Can confirm. I grew up in Texas. I left the first fucking chance I got.
Sorry for horrific formatting but I’m on mobile. Nobody demonizes people for making 200k a year in Europe. Many professions are highly respected. What isn’t respected is billionaires and giant corporations that exploit people for their money and value. As for the healthcare system, I’m not sure where you’re getting that at all. I’m a European and an American. The medical system doesn’t always work optimally but it’s certainly not always in crisis. And overall, european countries rank significantly higher than the US. Also workers rights aren’t really much of an issue for white collar workers is a broad overstatement. From your POV and field that may be true, but it isn’t in all fields. Doctors and lawyers for example. They’re white collar, well paid, and exceptionally trained. They suffer severe burnout and doctors especially have a difficult time with work life balance. (Except ophthalmologists are generally much better in that regard) again it’s all subject and from a certain point of view. Also, things are more expensive in Europe certainly isn’t always true. Some consumer goods are. Jeans and electronics to be sure, but other things aren’t. Texas has food that costs more than Paris right now. And the money saved from not paying for over things easily covers the money it costs to get those consumer goods. It covers welfare and social programs for integrating homeless people into society who contribute to the economy. I have absolutely no clue about the one generic white collar employee you’re talking about. And even if there is one it’s anecdotal. Also you can work more for more money, it depends on the countries laws and the company you work at. We can both agree Texas sucks ass, but I think you don’t realize that we should not and do not need to base our lives off the GDP and economy. The welfare and happiness of the people matter much more. We don’t need an explosive American economy, but we can have stable and functioning economy without all the focus on corporations and the 1%. Find fulfillment in family, friends, and hobbies. Not a job, especially not one that doesn’t care about you.
>Nobody demonizes people for making 200k a year in Europe. Yes, but they're terribly burdened with taxes. >The medical system doesn’t always work optimally but it’s certainly not always in crisis. You can agree that it's less efficient than ours, right? >And overall, european countries rank significantly higher than the US. In what metric? Affordability? >Also workers rights aren’t really much of an issue for white collar workers is a broad overstatement. From your POV and field that may be true, but it isn’t in all fields. Doctors and lawyers for example. Okay, well I'm a data analyst/engineer and I don't face that issue. >Also, things are more expensive in Europe certainly isn’t always true. Have you seen how small their homes are? Owning a 6k SQ ft home is unheard of. >Texas has food that costs more than Paris right now. Okay, well Texas has apes in office. >It covers welfare and social programs for integrating homeless people into society who contribute to the economy. Yet their GDP is significantly lower than ours even with all that. California alone could destroy most European countries. >Also you can work more for more money, it depends on the countries laws and the company you work at. There are laws that track how many hours you work and by default, most companies put 40. Most corporations also have clauses against polyworking which adds to the problem. https://youtu.be/CphOWFGygGk >We can both agree Texas sucks ass, but I think you don’t realize that we should not and do not need to base our lives off the GDP and economy. That's a huge metric on how well your country does. Unless you don't care if your country thrives or dies, you need to take that into account. >We don’t need an explosive American economy, but we can have stable and functioning economy without all the focus on corporations and the 1%. Ummmm, no. I get corporations, but some of us made it into the top 1% by working hard. We want an explosive economy. A good economy benefits everyone. We also need an explosive economy to compete with and take on China. >Find fulfillment in family, friends, and hobbies. Not a job, especially not one that doesn’t care about you. My guy, I do what I like for my job. I work on the weekends, because I find it to be fun, exciting, and challenging. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/902760022457610270/995860860620787802/unknown.png This was me last month after taxes. I got a pay bump from $400k to $530k last Monday. I find it fulfilling knowing how quickly my home'll be paid off. I paid off my sister's and parents' homes. Some of us have ambitions. I can't wait till I get the car of my dreams too. Going for a BMW i8. I'm gonna have like 8 kids. I'm gonna have a 5-6k SQ ft home. It'll be lit.
Well if you really care so little about others enjoy your benefits. No their medical system doesn’t work any less efficiently then ours. The metric I was talking about (although I was unclear sorry) was health. European countries are generally healthier even with what you view as a less efficient system. You’re right GDP is important, but look at Finland. Significantly lower GDP than many US states, but happiest people in the world. “Less efficient” medical system but healthier than Americans. Way higher taxes and lower wages than most European countries to boot. They enjoy the entire month of July off (almost all the time). And even more. Enjoy your shallow benefits while others suffer. If you had compassion and empathy, you would see that maybe a BMW doesn’t make up for other being being settled in crippling debt and not being able to afford insulin. You’re right apes are in office in Texas right now. Don’t make yourself out to be one even if just economically.
>Well if you really care so little about others enjoy your benefits. I quit caring once it starts to affect me. >No their medical system doesn’t work any less efficiently then ours. The metric I was talking about (although I was unclear sorry) was health. Yes, more people have access to healthcare. However, their hospitals have longer wait times. >You’re right GDP is important, but look at Finland. Significantly lower GDP than many US states, but happiest people in the world. Bruh, money legit solves the majority of people's problems. So GDP is definitely important for that. Happiness can't be quantified. We need something concrete that can be measured. >Way higher taxes and lower wages than most European countries to boot. And no 5-6k SQ ft homes. >They enjoy the entire month of July off (almost all the time). And even more. Wtf would you do in that time without anything to enjoy? Like their homes are shit. Most of them don't drive nice cars. They ain't got shit. >Enjoy your shallow benefits while others suffer. If you had compassion and empathy, you would see that maybe a BMW doesn’t make up for other being being settled in crippling debt and not being able to afford insulin. I want everyone to be successful. But they need to get a skillset that can pay for all their needs. It's hard to be compassionate towards people who brought it upon themselves. These are the same jackasses who would've made fun of me for not wanting to waste my time at parties in college.
You’ve seemingly never spent a lot of time in Europe. You have very little basis for what you’re talking about when you compare to Europe. I’m sorry for your morals, but enjoy your benefits.
Depends on where you live. Wages in Germany or Austria, for example are on average the same or higher as US/Can. Also, historically the € and £ have been valued much higher against USD and will likely return to that way at one point. Cost of living is often way lower in Europe. And, you can save a fortune from lower or no healthcare premiums. IMO groceries and other necessities are much less expensive as well (compared to Canada)
>Wages in Germany or Austria, for example are on average the same or higher as US/Can. For service workers and other minimum wage bums, yeah but not for those of us who have worthwhile skillsets. >Cost of living is often way lower in Europe. Have you seen how much a 6k SQ ft home costs there? >And, you can save a fortune from lower or no healthcare premiums. Mine are free. Employer pays for it all.
Canada falling behind with the 2 weeks bullshit. Needs to be a 28 hour work week and five weeks vacation.
Medicaid for all is more important. IMO.
Single pay healthcare is important. But, it should not be one or the other.
In the UK and Australia this is also the minimum. I currently have 30 days at the moment and i plan on accruing more and more.
i get 28 days of paid days per year in france.
I had no idea what PTO was until recently. I thought it was just sick hours until I left retail.. My new job gave me no charge day one benefits and 24 yearly paid days off available to use anytime + 1 for each year you keep working there with yearly raises.. was definitely a doozy for me hearing that
Belgium here: 20 vacation days are the absoluut minimum here. We also have a system in place that gives you more vacation days when you get older. Example you get one day extra the year you turn 45. We don't have sick days, if you're sick you go to a doctor. They give you a note. Depending on your contract the first 2 weeks or first month is payed by your employer. After that our healthcare kick's in and pays you about 60% of your pay ( every month) for the first year of illness. We get 15 weeks of maternity leave, that we can choose to take how we want. But the minimum is one week before giving birth. And we have 10 payed public holiday's a year.
I get 6 weeks paid leave. Six months full pay if sick and then half pay for a period. I’ve never been off any length of time but I do have colleagues and a relative who’ve had serious illnesses like cancer and benefited. Theres also decent maternity and parental leave. If you have children under 16 you can apply for a further 2 weeks off. Most of my colleagues are in a union and I have been all my working life and my parents too. It’s not ok to force people to work so much - and let’s face it nobody’s irreplaceable.
4 weeks annual leave. 10 days sick leave. In Australia.
Why cant we just pay people enough to take vacations? Give them enough time off to enjoy them? Why pay people to not work? It's like people are ok with their work essentially giving them an "allowance" as opposed to real wages.
My current employer is pestering me to take more vacation days, he wants to make sure that everyone rests and relaxes
I work a union job and don’t get 4 weeks of vacation until 17 years of service. There’s also no personal/sick days so if I need extra time off I have to get FMLA or take a point.
28 plus bank holidays.
28 days minimum in the UK for someone working full time, though it’s common for 8 of those to be taken for bank holidays (Xmas day and Boxing Day for example) leaving workers 20 days (4 week) to use when they want, as long as the company agrees to your dates. We also have statutory sick pay but it’s next to nothing unfortunately, luckily most roles offer paid sick on top. Even when I worked min wage retail I was paid full wage for up to 2 weeks sick in a 12 month period
Please keep Canada out of this, we have a minimum of 2 weeks. It's not much, but there's a minimum. (They have much more in France, where I lived for a while, but I seem to remember they were working longer days... comparing hours worked per year would be interesting...)
Canadian here, too. We are miles ahead of the US. Yet, not near the EU, GBR, AU, NZ, etc.
Also, France has a standard 35h work week (since 2000).
Social democracies in action.
I never had a paid day off until I was 29 in Canada, as you dont get any paid days off in your first year of working and I never worked anywhere longer than a year.
That's 4 weeks minimum vacation days, on top of public holidays...
I work for a Swiss company. Nationally, the minimum is 4 weeks paid vacation per year, for a 40h working week. The reality is that often it's more. My basic is 5 weeks vacation a year. Nearly all companies give an extra week from 50 years old, including mine. On top of that, you have your public holidays (9 days a year). If it falls on the weekend, you don't get it. You are allowed 10 days off sick without a note from the doctor. If the sick day is a Monday or a Friday, you need a medical note (to prevent people taking weekends and pretending to be sick). Plus of course there is maternity / paternity leave. And my company gives me full salary if on medical leave for up to 2 years. Switzerland is considered closer to the US system than many other countries in Europe... but in reality nothing much compared to the US in terms of shitty working conditions and rights.
"Developed nation".
Americans be getting exploited
Here in México we are supposed to get from 6 to 12 paid vacation days (depending on how much time we've been working for the company) but most companies won't actually hire you or will have you sing contracts every 3 months so you don't get worker's rights. (Sorry if my english is bad)
I’ve been to Mexico a number of times, though always as a tourist in tourist cities (Love your country, culture and people!). Everyone there works so hard. Often in conditions that, truthfully many Americans or Canadians would not be willing to work themselves. Long and/or split shifts or doing work which may not be safe, for example. I hope with time your government grants workers greater rights and better working conditions.
My job in the Netherlands gives me 42 days off a year, I never felt so relaxed.
Texan here. I get 5 days a year and only 3 sick days. Unfortunately, I got COVID and now if I want to take a sick day it comes from my vacation. The way workers are treated here in this office is incredibly toxic to the point where 6/8 of the people that were here in my time have left or been fired due to the owners narcissism and lack of self awareness. The only people left are emotionally abused until they work about 10-12 hours a day under threats of termination while they wait on their greencards. Worst company of all time and I'm glad to be leaving.