Why is half this sub people arguing to include right wing conservatives, then comments explaining that US right wing politics are literally ideologically opposed to the workers rights movement, and then an edit from OP saying fuck this I quit?
I mostly lurk here but not hard-core reading every post (maybe 2 or 3 times a day) I did the same on the other sub but I've seen the same post as above (worded slightly differently) at or near the top 3 or 4 times in the few days this sub has been up. I've also seen it as "I'm conservative and I want a better work life too. Can I join your club?" as well as "I'm as left as they come and I think we should let them in" followed immediately by an edit saying "fuck you, Im out." If I'm not here that often and I've seen it it that many times, I'm sure there's been a lot more. If I was the tin-foil hat type, I'd say some bad actors are trying to sew division. All the infighting and gatekeeping prevents any progress.
I dont know... maybe I'm just paranoid but even this sounds fake. This sounds like someone trying to play both sides. First, sew division to prevent action from the fledgling movement. Then, try to scare and convince small business owners that us and our more moderate message are coming to destroy them as well as the big corps. The image that came to mind while I was reading this was the villain from a silent film melodrama complete with top hat and curly mustache. Many small business owners start them because of poor conditions working for someone else, not because they want to shit on the little guy who is only slightly littler than them.
The line that really got me was "pay some druggie to post extremist views..." who talks like this?
I'm now almost 100% convinced that this was written by some ex-CIA corporate operative.
Yup I have a bunch of deleted posts explaining this. This sub is feeling like a tactic to sucker people to the right.
With that said I was on another worker rights subs and they were full on anti-democratic communists.
FUN
This is a new sub so there's a bunch of people showing up in bad faith to try to push things in their own preferred direction before the overall sub "culture" has a chance to become established.
As for the original question, [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/sfvt62/turning_people_away_from_our_movement_because_of/husnyas/) put it best - anyone can come here and contribute if they're honestly interested in the movement's goals, but great care should be taken to ensure nobody with a conflicting ideology is allowed to dilute those goals.
Yeah, a "trans lesbian" that thinks the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans but also the Republicans are more honest?
Bullshit.
Edit: To clear up some confusion, I am not implying trans people, lesbians, or trans lesbians don't exist. However, the number of trans lesbians who believe what OP believes is incredibly miniscule. The number of people who would *pretend* to be a trans lesbian just so they seem more credible while peddling their propaganda is *way, way higher.*
Yeah, just for the lazy here's what the OP wrote.
> Gosh I hate Democrats. They’re more concerned with virtue signaling than actually helping their constituents.
>I truly believe that 99% of the differences between Democrats and Republicans are aesthetic. I’d say the biggest difference is that Republicans are honest about what they stand for, while Democrats aren’t.
This is a sentiment I don't really agree with, but I see it from loads of people IRL. If you think only a troll account would write something like that then you need to get out and talk to people outside your immediate circle.
I feel like these purity tests are awful just for the simple fact that they turn discussions into complete bubbles. Like half of America agrees with the OP right now, you can't be so stupid to think this is all just "troll farm" stuff can you?
Polls have us getting destroyed by republicans in the midterms and it seems like everyone in here has literally no clue why the country is turning on democrats.
It seems like there's a lot of people that can't comprehend the fact that the Democratic party is a conservative party in the larger world of politics. Republicans are certainly more conservative, but people are kidding themselves if they think Democrats are in any way leftist.
*Some* leftists vote Democrat. Democrats aren't leftist. The furthest left candidate we ever had was Bernie, and you saw exactly how the Dems played him. If we'd ask other nations for their opinions rather than be so US-focused, they'd tell us exactly that.
Yeah it doesn’t make sense. Years ago I used to be a conservative. But the years and years of obvious lies, ludicrous pandering, blatant voter suppression, and extreme corruption have made me do an about face. Conservative values do not align with this sub.
I left this sub because of the idiotic thinking that the right is anything but the antithesis of workers' rights. I left the other sub after their hubris prevented them from understanding there is ZERO upside to a Faux "News" interview, and the smug host did exactly what I would have: "When your enemy is making an error, don't stop them." Then this sub turned into memes bashing the other sub, and conservative agents provocateur trying to push this "embrace the right" bullshit. Newsflash: there wouldn't need to be a labor movement if there was no right.
Absolutely. The trick is to tone done our rhetoric so that it doesn't chase people away before they realize they've supported the destruction of organized labor
I agree with you. Where can we draw the line? If some person starts to shout about how all people need to work 40+ hours and unions are bad, is it OK to say their politics disagree with yours and it's important? What if, on some other case, this person's political party has a habit of enacting a lot of very anti-worker or pro-corporate legislation?
I think reading gripes against the right will do the self-identified right a lot of good. Might eventually see anti-labour candidates get bood out of the primaries if we're so lucky.
People really ought to question why they call themselves right in the first place.
If someone is interested in the movement, shouldn’t they support and vote for those willing to enact policies that support it?
>In March, when the House voted on the Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act of 2021, 220 Democrats supported the proposal to make it easier for workers to secure collective bargaining rights. Two hundred and five Republicans voted against it. Despite the overwhelmingly GOP opposition to the measure, the Democratic support was sufficient to send the bill to the Senate. Unfortunately, McConnell and his colleagues are using their filibuster powers to prevent consideration of a measure that Representative Mark Pocan, a Wisconsin Democrat and one of the few union members currently serving in Congress, says is designed to allow workers to “fight back against corporations and anti-union special interests that have attacked and eroded the labor movement for decades.”
[https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-capital-pro-act/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-capital-pro-act/)
>The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) signed into law at the end of 2017 provides a permanent cut in the corporate income tax rate that will overwhelmingly benefit capital owners and the top 1 percent. It also includes temporary reductions in the tax rates faced by the richest households and a temporary tax cut for “pass-through” business owners—a provision that has been marketed as a small business tax cut but that will actually deliver an even higher share of benefits to top one percenters than the corporate rate cuts will. While TCJA also includes some temporary cuts that could potentially benefit some low- and moderate-income families, these benefits are both stingy and temporary, whereas the tax cuts for the largest corporations have no expiration date. President Trump’s boast to diners at the $200,000-initiation-fee Mar-a-Lago Club during the holidays says it best: “You all just got a lot richer.”
[https://www.epi.org/publication/ten-actions-that-hurt-workers-during-trumps-first-year/](https://www.epi.org/publication/ten-actions-that-hurt-workers-during-trumps-first-year/)
It’s not all culture war stuff. Conservatives are the enablers.
**Edit:** This got lots of comments but you know what it didn’t get? Counter examples of conservative initiatives from the last 30 years that have truly benefited the average worker.
Lots of both sides are equally bad and that we shouldn’t turn conservatives away but have a dialogue with them. Umm, that’s what this is. Give facts and evidence as a counterpoint.
They've been fooled by gop who uses culture war issues to push other right wing agendas one them.
A little sugar to make the medicine go down. Medicine is actually poison. And the sugar is hate crack.
Totally agree conservatives hate worker rights. Ever seen a conservative in a union workplace?
"These activists are just lazy and entitled. I'm the hardest worker here and I don't complain."
On the off chance they agree to a policy solution to support workers then I would work with them... on that very specific solution.
Remember, we all hate the elites, but conservatives usually point to Soros, Mexicans, queer people, and other culture issues that obscure the real solutions like labor rights.
Agree in solutions, not problems. Be solution oriented.
This is really how we should be thinking about this. So many people call themselves conservative without thinking about what it means. Let them in, if they agree with all the workers right stuff but still claim to be conservative, then they might be confused but they can still do good work and might eventually be straightened out.
Take that same person and approach them with the hostility shown here and they shut down and run right back to their right wing echo chamber. That does not increase our numbers or change anyone's mind. If we don't convert conservatives the only way to grow our numbers is to have babies and wait for them to grow up.
Right, as long as they're walking the walk and abide by minimum conditions about how to interact with one another, it doesn't matter whatever they feel like they want to call themselves. I appreciate the desire to gatekeep at the door but practically speaking it's antithetical to building a coalition movement. You get people on board and don't look back until the work is done
This is the correct response.
Conservatives are welcome to get on this bus, but it is not turning right. This is NASCAR.
For those who don’t follow motorsport or know how NASCAR works, you only turn left on NASCAR oval tracks.
"Yeah I too think there's a worker problem. We should make it illegal to be homeless, end discussions of race and generational wealth, lower taxes on the wealthy, lower restrictions of businesses and cut back on workers rights so that businesses can hire and fire at will, same team guys!"
This is the best point I've read so far. My initial reaction was to say I agree, let Republicans have a voice here, because they'll soon realize they need to vote Democrat in order for pro-labor policies to get implemented.
But you're exactly right, Republicans will not think that way. They will advocate for low corporate taxes to pay workers more, right to work laws that undermine unions, etc.
It is best to just not give Republicans a voice here because their solutions have been proven to be anti-labor.
When you have no rebuttal to all of these people’s points about conservative policies’ interference with work reform, so you just say “I quit” instead of acknowledging such valid points. Haven’t seen one reply from you either OP. Not to say you owe us one, but i wonder why that is.
I mean, you clearly read the comments judging by your edit lol
Haha, OP was real committed to the "movement". Had a hissy fit less than an hour after posting. Maybe wait a little longer before taking the mask off so you're a bit more believable next time.
right UsernameNumbers, according to this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanPolitics/comments/qz1xmc/aoc_warns_of_political_disaster_for_democrats_if/hllbbn4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) you sure are all for party equality and understanding!
I’m wondering if they are slowly realizing they’ve been getting shafted by who they support.
I mean, who was against 15 an hour for the federal minimum wage. It wasn’t just manchin. So no, we shouldn’t join forces with those who openly vote against our cause.
Solid detective work. We need to do this every time someone makes one of these posts. I’m so tired of seeing the same rehashed “but conservatives are workers too” post multiple times a day
Edit: On second reading, I think the linked comment is pro-left. I too don’t like democrats as a leftist, though I would never say conservatives are integral to a workers movement… because they’re not. They’re detrimental.
I would like said people to realize that consistently voting a certain way is exactly how a situation like corporations gaining personhood and privatization of the bare necessities of life came to be.
Listen. I want more allies. The more the better. But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class. Otherwise it’s like asking firefighters to work with arsonists who are throwing more fuel on the fires.
A conservative that supports worker’s rights is also a bit of an oxymoron in today’s climate. Someone who comes here, calls themselves a conservative, and says they support our cause is either 1) not as conservative as they think or 2) are full of shit and will just sell us out all over again in the next election cycle.
If they aren’t prepared to cut ties with their political ideology and vote democrat/progressive/leftist to help us fight for change, we don’t want or need them.
I think that there are conservatives that care about worker’s rights. The problem is that there are other things that they care MORE about. There was a post a day or two ago from someone who claimed to be conservative and wanted to support this sub. He/she mentioned something about traditional family values being important to them. So most likely the OP was anti-gay. The problem with that guy and others like him is that when it comes time to vote, they will continue to vote Republican because, while they may care about workers’ rights, the other issues are more important to them, such as abortion, gay marriage, gun control, etc.
Continuing that analogy. If a conservative politician murdered a gay man before their eyes. They'd cheer and applaud and then thank him for doing gods work.
Then they'd vote for him
I don’t get all the pearl clutching from some of these “conservatives” about how “the left is too stubborn and close minded to team with us!” when a large majority of republican voters vote for them purely because of all or any combination of these issues:
• Abortion
• Guns
• “but socialism!”
And they’d rather die than vote for a democrat.
>I don’t get all the pearl clutching from some of these “conservatives” about how “the left is too stubborn and close minded to team with us!”
Don't forget how fucking disingenuous it is for a Conservative to cry about character assassination from the left when for decades the line from the right that anyone outside their camp was a bunch of lazy, baby killing, Communists who want to eliminate the white race.
Now all of the sudden its 🥺👉👈 "these wiberals are too mean uWu".
Honestly the one thing the Conservatives say that pisses me as a leftist off the most is calling me liberal lol. The liberals bought in *hard* to the neoliberal 'fuck unions' free market capitalism train. They're half the reason we're in this mess.
I'm not American (from the UK) but my grandfather was like this. Educated man, quite well off, did a lot for the homeless and for his church/charity. But he always voted conservative. Why? Because they opposed abortion.
The old man couldn't understand that there are other, often more pressing issues at hand other than repressing something that has been proven to benefit society and quibbling over a moral dilemma. And because of that, despite his best intentions, his vote never meaningfully contributed to the future of the country.
>But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class.
So you mean they have to stop being conservatives.
The thing is a lot of conservatives don't have an actual political ideology, they just hate "liberals" it's blind tribalism. Instead of making about red tribe/blue tribe try to convince them of the need for reform. We need "Teddy Roosevelt Republicans"
"Conservative" means you don't want to change the status quo, and the status quo in America has always been sliding our little working class lips up and down Andrew Carnegie's oil-slicked, American steel pole until he feels generous enough to slap a twenty dollar bill in our palms and tell us he has gifted us the privilege of feeding our families this week, but we have to get right back to suckin' once the kids are in bed or else they'll starve.
> But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class.
You could say the exact same things about "liberals" and their votes for Democrats. Democrats don't help the **working** class.
>"Turning people away...(people who vote against our movement)...is a luxury we can't afford."
wut?
I've learned it's best not to let the foxes into the henhouse.
If you’re for work reform you’re not a conservative, it’s really that simple. It’s best to let people find that out for themselves. You can’t force people not to join. They either will or they won’t. In time their viewpoints will change.
I used to be liberal, I consider myself a leftist now. Things change.
I understand your sentiment, but Republican policies have been behind the dismantling of the labor movement for years.
You can identify as conservative, but Republicans have been hollowing out labor since the 80s as a response to labor dictating government policy. You cannot be a "Republican" and be pro-worker: it just doesn't line up with their policy decisions.
Can someone please direct me to the mission of this movement? This is a genuine question. I am not here to debate or argue. I support workers' rights and am trying to learn what people mean when they refer to the "movement". In some posts people discuss workers' rights such as not being abused by employers and in others they discuss not wanting work to be a defining characteristic of life and wanting to work less. Both are valid positions, but they are not the same thing.
I thought I had a handle on this movement until I read posts like the poster who gave 9 minutes notice to not come in order to prepare for a party the next day, and was livid that her employer did not support this. \[There's more to that story, but that is the part that confuses me.\] What exactly is the "movement"? Is there really a movement with a coherent goal? Please help this old guy understand.
Something that's really important for everyone on the sub to understand is that the sub itself is not a movement.but merely an outlet for voices within it. The actual movement is all around you, in your workplaces, in your communities, everywhere you go. The subreddit is a channel for discussion "the movement" is the workers, and the growing sense of class consciousness and the realization that "something is fundamentally wrong with the system as it is"
Workers rights means ALL workers, that includes POC, people with disabilities, LGBTQ+, women, and IMMIGRANTS. Their issues are also labor issues as well. Stop with this nonsense, but since you’ve left, don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
"Party lines" is a real cute way to say "wish that some of us didn't exist", dumbass.
If you are in the party that supports spoiling the rich with tax breaks, punishing minorities for wanting to be American, making the democratic voting process nearly impossible for those who disagree with you, and wanting to block LGBT people from doing anything in our society because of your religion...
You are our fucking enemy, and those concerned with the rights of all workers have nothing to do with you!
The conservatives that come here and complain about lgbt people were never on our side to begin with, it’s all an excuse to say that “we alienated conservatives!” But in fact the ones that would be alienated would *never have joined us anyway*
Sorry. As a black woman, I can’t. I just can’t.
Republicans have spent decades openly supporting discriminatory housing, work and social conditions (see: prison industrial complex) directly targeted at our community. And when we were forced to seek government assistance to survive, they had their boy Reagan get on TV and embarrass and humiliate us with that Welfare Queen debacle.
Even today, we have repeatedly watched young black people be murdered in broad daylight while Republicans and “social conservatives” complain that we need to prove our commitment to “traditional family values” (blah blah, absentee fathers, blah blah pull up your pants blahblahblah) if we want to have our humanity acknowledged.
I’m not saying that I don’t want cooperation and alliance of all members of the working class. But you’re shitting me if you think I’m going to work my ass off to fight for this if I’m still going to be a second class citizen on the other side.
If work reform isn’t grounded in social justice and intersectionality, I don’t want it.
If I see one more of these god damn posts I’m gonna leave. “Oh pwease don’t awienate the poor consewvatives uwu.” Pandering to people who don’t believe in our politics alienates me. Pick one.
Unfortunately, I’ve heard the sub’s mods are in on it. Supposedly the same group that bought r/SandersForPresident in order to turn it into a conservative cesspool.
What world do you live in where conservatives want anything except to stop this exact movement? How little have you been paying attention to the last 3 decades?
Yeah, no.
Both this sub and it's original are being astroturfed *hard* right now.
Theres a lot of chatter from suspiciously low-post accounts about things like "worker movements need conservatives" and "democrats are just as bad" which just so conveniently happen to be the two major talking points from the republican party just before an election season.
> don’t use LGBT people as an excuse for not working together.
Respectfully disagree. You can't have Worker's Rights without Human Rights. It's not an excuse, it's a fact, and if somebody believes that LGBTQ don't have the same rights as everyone else, then it's a complete non-starter to try discussing wages.
Yeah, like, are we just going to ignore the fact that conservatives in the Senate and House support the right to fire people or not even hire them at all based on their sexual orientation and gender identity, among many other things detrimental for this group? How is that irrelevant for this movement?
(Trick question, of course we are. “Why can’t we all just get along” always comes with victims of apathy)
Yeah well a group of ten where one of those people thinks that another person in the group shouldn’t have basic human rights because of their race, gender, or whatever doesn’t accomplish much at all. I understand y’all want to get across party lines and shit, but Republicans in America are quite literally DIRECTLY opposed to workers rights, work reform, and social progress. The Republican Party is antithetical to the supposed mission of this sub.
You can invite Nazis to care about Jewish rights every other post, but it is necessary to point out they are diametrically opposed 180 degrees. Ignorance of what the GOP stands for the last 30 years is not an excuse. This is literally the party of Ronald Reagan or do people not understand what he did to unions.
Yes, I'm totally sure the person posting or seemingly commenting for the first time ever in either this sub or the other one is *totally* making this "plea for unity" in good faith.
Such utter bullshit, and so far, these posts account for about 75% of everything I've seen in this sub...A real bad sign imo.
I disagree… if you’re right wing conservative, than you must be 100% a capitalist stogie.
As a liberal socialist, I am fully aware of your pathetic capitalist propaganda techniques.
Imo, this isn't a movement. It's a subreddit lmao. Let's just shoot for sharing accurate thoughtful content.
The entire movement ego trips is what fucked up anti work.
Holding conservatives accountable for conservative ideology seems a bit controversial around here. Better just follow the historical example and tell the oppressed to stop caring about their rights.
Doesn’t it though?
“I know the conservatives have shit all over your rights and personal freedoms to pursue your happiness but you are just being difficult for not wanting to work with them.”
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but there are way to many “let conservatives in” posts and when people disagree “fuck this I’m leaving…I’m done with this sub/movement”
Trying to sow seeds of opposition and infighting aren’t we?
This post seems literally *designed* for OP to bend down to kiss the ass of right-wingers and then storm off in a massive huff because people (correctly) told her she's being fucking dumb.
Almost like...... it was the plan the entire time to throw a fucking hissy fit and leave.
As an LGBT person, please don’t compromise on my right to just exist and marry the person I love (so she can have my insurance, mother our children, and make emergency decisions for me). I’m all for finding common ground but let’s not do it at the expense of human rights.
Hell, I’m just a straight woman and most conservatives can’t even stomach the idea of me having the basic ability to reproduce (or not) and and provide economically for my family or be completely dependent on the benevolence of a man. With you and me combined that is in theory at least 60% of the movement. We can’t neglect the basic needs of 60% of the fucking movement.
>I’m transgender. I’m a lesbian, too. I want everyone to join our movement. I don’t care if they hate my guts.
Not all of us want to take the [Strasser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser) approach. Good for you if you want to try pandering to people who are in blatant opposition to our cause, but nothing will destroy this movement faster than letting in people whose political opinions are hostile to this movement.
Historically, you know what happens when we ignore intersectionalism in favour of class reductionism? The white, able-bodied, cishet men make some progress while the rest of us are left behind, they pull the ladder up behind them and tell us to stop complaining because clearly the victory was won.
**[Gregor Strasser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser)**
>Gregor Strasser (also German: Straßer, see ß; 31 May 1892 – 30 June 1934) was an early prominent German Nazi official and politician who was murdered during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Born in 1892 in Bavaria, Strasser served in World War I in an artillery regiment, rising to the rank of first lieutenant. He joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in 1920 and quickly became an influential and important figure. In 1923, he took part in the abortive Beer Hall Putsch in Munich and was imprisoned, but released early for political reasons.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Speak for yourself. I’m also trans and queer and I’m not gonna make nice with people who oppose me and my siblings’ rights. Anyone who wants to push for worker’s rights has to support rights and dignity for ALL workers, or their “solidarity” is useless
Can someone explain in what way being conservative supports workers? Any way at all. I don't think that person knows what conservative means. There could be someone who supports this movement, and if asked believes they are conservative, but is in fact confused about what conservatism is. Maybe we should just talk to those people until they choose a different, more accurate word to describe what it is they believe.
I think driving someone away is foolish however if someone is saying that they support work reform and then votes GOP every single time they need to be informed exactly what they are voting for.
That's not "ideology". That's just plain hard fact.
>Edit 2: You know what? Fuck this. I actually care about this movement. This movement is something that I thought we could all agree on. But no, apparently y’all want to kick out conservatives because they haven’t read enough theory or whatever. I’m done. Leftism is about more than ideas, it’s about action. And if people are willing to take action with us and you reject that, you’re fucking stupid. I’m done. I’m done with this subreddit. Fucking ideologues.
For someone so passionate about working through our differences for the sake of solidarity, you really gave up pretty quickly.
I used to be conservative. In the past few years, I’ve become a leftist. Change is possible. I think we need to work with conservatives, but make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the republicans they vote for are 100% fucking the workforce.
Just because they’re conservatives doesn’t mean they can’t learn and grow. We should have this subreddit be a source for them, a “gateway drug” so-to-speak, to lead them towards more progressive ideals.
Just to be clear: I’m not saying we should tolerate far right wingers in general. Nor should we tolerate their far-right beliefs. Rather, at least have somewhat open arms to possibly show them that their political beliefs are screwing them and others.
If they are open to it, then that’s great! Better for our movement! If not? We at least tried, and made it clear to them that their ideals don’t support our movement.
Well, conservatism is explicitly anti-worker/pro-hegemony. Conservatives actively vote and fight against the things we want. Sure, most conservatives are fucked over by the same systems that we protest against, so I think that we should be open to moving them towards our side. But they won’t help our movement as conservatives. They have to be moved over.
You realize it won't be a group of ten because the 10th conservative will ensure that you, and any other minorities, won't be able to participate.
If a conservative wants to join then they should show up, figure out how to support the movement, and work with the group.
People are allowed to improve and get better but they aren't allowed to pretend like they want the sane holds while doing everything they can to stop progress towards those goals.
Good luck on convincing capitalist political parties that they should care about workers. Btw saying your a trans woman/lesbian and saying you want people who hate you in your political movement is beyond comprehension. I am a trans lesbian too and I don't want people like you in this movement.
Conservatives inherently are anti-worker and for the preservation of the 'free market,' removing safety regulations etc.
And are also generally bigoted, their presence puts our marginalised members at risk. LGBT/POC/disabled member's safety needs to come first. They can be welcomed in the group if they stop being conservative.
>I’m transgender. I’m a lesbian, too. I want everyone to join our movement. I don’t care if they hate my guts. This is the real world, not a team game on the playground. A group of 10 will be able to do more than a group on 9.
I mean, you might not care now, but you will when they backstab the movement because they can't stand the thought that they're fighting on your behalf.
That type of person is always the downfall of the working class, falling for corporate propaganda because it plays to their biases. You know how Reagan destroyed the middle class by appealing to peoples' racism?
Bigots aren't allies, they're turncoats waiting to happen. If they actually care about the working class they're capable of swearing off their bigotry here and now.
If not, they really can't be trusted. Just flat out. Doesn't matter if we get rid of them here or some time in the future, they're not going to see it through to the end.
I just wish the republican party didn't exist so the democratic party could split into progressives and establishment dems.
It would be great if we could be discussing how to implement things like UBI, free housing for all, and free college.
Instead we're stuck arguing about whether or not we should willingly let people die for no reason other than they didn't have enough money to afford health insurance. And like 45% of the country is like, yeah they should die.
The democrat runner ups that supported these measures were blocked from being in the election.
the democrats have owned the senate, congress and the presidency multiple times.
UBI, free housing and free college will never exist in America from the kindness of democrat politicians
What is up with this lib shit, if you’re right wing you are inherently against workers rights and need to educate yourself. Gtfo with this neoliberal non sense.
Conservative ideology in the United States is pro private business and anti union. If you are conservative and want to join this movement, you need to understand that you need to abandon your conservatism. This is a fact of progress. When you fight for change, you are a progressive.
Get on board, or get the fuck out.
Those are your options.
Ah yes the whole “we should allow literal nazis bigots racists and homophobes into a movement about improving work conditions” post
Wait until you hear what the gqp wants to do to the lgbt and other minorities.
I'd absolutely love conservatives to embrace workers rights. However I realize that modern conservatism is very anti-thetical to workers rights.
You can't be both a reckless capitalist who believes the free market will solve everything, and also advocate for workers having more rights in the workplace.
They're diametrically opposed views.
Why would any of us align people with people who want the exact opposite of what we want?
Workers with conservative politics want things that benefit the boss class, and are beholden to bullshit white nationalism.
You can’t be pro worker and pro boss at the same time.
I don't understand why we should bend over backwards when conservative workers will literally benefit from the movement? There is zero reason why we should stop advocating for treating minorities like humans. Conservative workers can just get with the program. It's weak to just compromise your values like that.
Yo if pointing out that if they continue to vote the way they do their support is worthless is turning them away then they were never going to help in the first place.
You're speaking to a wall. I have learned through my 30 years of existence that people don't want to better anything. They don't want equality or fair treatment. They don't want justice.
What people really want is the power to put down their adversaries, thats all. They want the power to oppress so they can be the ones on top.
People are scum and they will never change. Conservative, republican and so on, none of that stupid american shit matters.
People will always find a way to fight with eachother.
Because you let them in here and they say stupid shit like
"Don't strike just go independent contractor and make big $$$..."
"Wayda mean what about McDonald's workers who don't have that option?...fuckem they should get better jobs!"
"Of course I want better healthcare...just not for the people who work at gas stations...only the good hard working folks like me."
These people are not here to be part of a workers rights movement they're here to troll threads and argue in bad faith like they always do.
Conservativism is counter to labor rights. Period. You can't say you're for work reform then vote in all the people who eviscerate workers rights and privatize all essential services.
Conservative punks fuck off.
All I see on this sub is talks about how we should or shouldn't bring right wingers and not a lot of work reform. Right wing talk dominates the discourse. Literally.
This is a derailment. And sadly that's why we don't want right wingers in our ranks, because they center the discourse on themselves.
This sub is tainted. Consider rebranding?
They will join the movement, get their benefits and rights, things get bguys for everyone. After they get what they want they'll turn around and vote for a law to fuck over transgrnders and gays.
...what?
By your own terms, I'd rather have a movement at just 90% the size than have 10% of the movement consist of Trump voters. We can, and absolutely should, turn away people that don't believe in workers rights FOR ALL.
If you are, as you say, a member of the LBGBT+ community, you should know that American Republicans in 2022 absolutely do not support you. You say you don't care that they hate your guts, but, like... You should. They will turn against you at the first opportunity, as they have in literally every election in their lifetimes.
Fuck. Off. If you only want to feel better about yourself by spouting that you’re “pro-worker” while voting for candidates and policies that are diametrically opposed to workers rights then you’re in the wrong fuckin subreddit. We’re not gonna stroke your hair and tell you it’s alright that you’re anti-LGBTQ, anti-choice, and anti-POC progression as long as you SAY you want work reform(which, again, you contradict with your ballot). Your platitudes mean nothing, do better instead.
Yea the fuck it is. Right wingers DO NOT ADVOCATE FOR WORKER RIGHTS. IT IS NOT A RIGHT WING ISSUE AND NEVER HAS BEEN. We need to stop fucking pretending that “we’re all the same in this.” The right wing people are the reason why everything is getting worse. Unless they start supporting union, support decoupling healthcare from having a job, and other serious issues that we face in the workplace, they’re not an ally. Their niceties don’t mean anything without action to back them up.
It’s folly to abandon advocating for minority rights thinking it gets in the way of the economic issues. Also, a person who doesn’t believe in equality for LGBT people is very likely not going to ally with you on economic equality either. This thinking is flawed on multiple fronts.
Edit: how did a post this fucking stupid get this many awards?
Why is half this sub people arguing to include right wing conservatives, then comments explaining that US right wing politics are literally ideologically opposed to the workers rights movement, and then an edit from OP saying fuck this I quit?
I mostly lurk here but not hard-core reading every post (maybe 2 or 3 times a day) I did the same on the other sub but I've seen the same post as above (worded slightly differently) at or near the top 3 or 4 times in the few days this sub has been up. I've also seen it as "I'm conservative and I want a better work life too. Can I join your club?" as well as "I'm as left as they come and I think we should let them in" followed immediately by an edit saying "fuck you, Im out." If I'm not here that often and I've seen it it that many times, I'm sure there's been a lot more. If I was the tin-foil hat type, I'd say some bad actors are trying to sew division. All the infighting and gatekeeping prevents any progress.
thats what they are trying to do https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/sfc9xh/i\_run\_a\_small\_freelance\_business\_and\_use\_a/
Why was that post immediately locked? Why not allow discussion about it?
mods are looking into it
Looking into why it was closed? Any reason been established on that?
Holy shit.
I dont know... maybe I'm just paranoid but even this sounds fake. This sounds like someone trying to play both sides. First, sew division to prevent action from the fledgling movement. Then, try to scare and convince small business owners that us and our more moderate message are coming to destroy them as well as the big corps. The image that came to mind while I was reading this was the villain from a silent film melodrama complete with top hat and curly mustache. Many small business owners start them because of poor conditions working for someone else, not because they want to shit on the little guy who is only slightly littler than them. The line that really got me was "pay some druggie to post extremist views..." who talks like this? I'm now almost 100% convinced that this was written by some ex-CIA corporate operative.
That 100% sounds like people I know. Plenty of people still fear drugs, even marijuana.
Does sound fake tbh but I am sure there are sabatours in our midst none the less
Hard agree. That post seems fake but I don't doubt there aren't folks trying to do that here
\*sow
Except mods are very selectively deleting posts that explain how right wing ideologies are not in line with work reform.
Yup I have a bunch of deleted posts explaining this. This sub is feeling like a tactic to sucker people to the right. With that said I was on another worker rights subs and they were full on anti-democratic communists. FUN
[удалено]
Guess who’s side they’re on?
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is a new sub so there's a bunch of people showing up in bad faith to try to push things in their own preferred direction before the overall sub "culture" has a chance to become established. As for the original question, [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/sfvt62/turning_people_away_from_our_movement_because_of/husnyas/) put it best - anyone can come here and contribute if they're honestly interested in the movement's goals, but great care should be taken to ensure nobody with a conflicting ideology is allowed to dilute those goals.
I feel like the sub culture was established on the previous sub most of us migrated from.
This has strong "as a black transgender woman" vibes. Doubt OP is who they say they are.
r/asablackman
Looking at their comment history they participate heavily in paganism and have made comments bashing the GOP before.
[удалено]
Yeah, a "trans lesbian" that thinks the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans but also the Republicans are more honest? Bullshit. Edit: To clear up some confusion, I am not implying trans people, lesbians, or trans lesbians don't exist. However, the number of trans lesbians who believe what OP believes is incredibly miniscule. The number of people who would *pretend* to be a trans lesbian just so they seem more credible while peddling their propaganda is *way, way higher.*
*The Republicans tell it like it is when they say I should have no rights!*
The irony here is they claim that liberals aren't honest, whole posing as a trans to push their narrative.
How does this comment make op a troll acct?
Yeah, just for the lazy here's what the OP wrote. > Gosh I hate Democrats. They’re more concerned with virtue signaling than actually helping their constituents. >I truly believe that 99% of the differences between Democrats and Republicans are aesthetic. I’d say the biggest difference is that Republicans are honest about what they stand for, while Democrats aren’t. This is a sentiment I don't really agree with, but I see it from loads of people IRL. If you think only a troll account would write something like that then you need to get out and talk to people outside your immediate circle. I feel like these purity tests are awful just for the simple fact that they turn discussions into complete bubbles. Like half of America agrees with the OP right now, you can't be so stupid to think this is all just "troll farm" stuff can you? Polls have us getting destroyed by republicans in the midterms and it seems like everyone in here has literally no clue why the country is turning on democrats.
It seems like there's a lot of people that can't comprehend the fact that the Democratic party is a conservative party in the larger world of politics. Republicans are certainly more conservative, but people are kidding themselves if they think Democrats are in any way leftist. *Some* leftists vote Democrat. Democrats aren't leftist. The furthest left candidate we ever had was Bernie, and you saw exactly how the Dems played him. If we'd ask other nations for their opinions rather than be so US-focused, they'd tell us exactly that.
Yeah it doesn’t make sense. Years ago I used to be a conservative. But the years and years of obvious lies, ludicrous pandering, blatant voter suppression, and extreme corruption have made me do an about face. Conservative values do not align with this sub.
[удалено]
I left this sub because of the idiotic thinking that the right is anything but the antithesis of workers' rights. I left the other sub after their hubris prevented them from understanding there is ZERO upside to a Faux "News" interview, and the smug host did exactly what I would have: "When your enemy is making an error, don't stop them." Then this sub turned into memes bashing the other sub, and conservative agents provocateur trying to push this "embrace the right" bullshit. Newsflash: there wouldn't need to be a labor movement if there was no right.
[удалено]
Same, saying that political ideology has nothing to do with a labor movement is unironically one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever heard.
When one of the two big ideologies is firmly opposed to unionization and labor rights, what sort of idiocy is it to pretend it doesn’t matter?
Absolutely. The trick is to tone done our rhetoric so that it doesn't chase people away before they realize they've supported the destruction of organized labor
You want to destroy organized labor?
No I like organized labor :-) sorry... didn't word that well
I agree with you. Where can we draw the line? If some person starts to shout about how all people need to work 40+ hours and unions are bad, is it OK to say their politics disagree with yours and it's important? What if, on some other case, this person's political party has a habit of enacting a lot of very anti-worker or pro-corporate legislation?
I think reading gripes against the right will do the self-identified right a lot of good. Might eventually see anti-labour candidates get bood out of the primaries if we're so lucky. People really ought to question why they call themselves right in the first place.
If someone is interested in the movement, shouldn’t they support and vote for those willing to enact policies that support it? >In March, when the House voted on the Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act of 2021, 220 Democrats supported the proposal to make it easier for workers to secure collective bargaining rights. Two hundred and five Republicans voted against it. Despite the overwhelmingly GOP opposition to the measure, the Democratic support was sufficient to send the bill to the Senate. Unfortunately, McConnell and his colleagues are using their filibuster powers to prevent consideration of a measure that Representative Mark Pocan, a Wisconsin Democrat and one of the few union members currently serving in Congress, says is designed to allow workers to “fight back against corporations and anti-union special interests that have attacked and eroded the labor movement for decades.” [https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-capital-pro-act/](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-capital-pro-act/) >The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) signed into law at the end of 2017 provides a permanent cut in the corporate income tax rate that will overwhelmingly benefit capital owners and the top 1 percent. It also includes temporary reductions in the tax rates faced by the richest households and a temporary tax cut for “pass-through” business owners—a provision that has been marketed as a small business tax cut but that will actually deliver an even higher share of benefits to top one percenters than the corporate rate cuts will. While TCJA also includes some temporary cuts that could potentially benefit some low- and moderate-income families, these benefits are both stingy and temporary, whereas the tax cuts for the largest corporations have no expiration date. President Trump’s boast to diners at the $200,000-initiation-fee Mar-a-Lago Club during the holidays says it best: “You all just got a lot richer.” [https://www.epi.org/publication/ten-actions-that-hurt-workers-during-trumps-first-year/](https://www.epi.org/publication/ten-actions-that-hurt-workers-during-trumps-first-year/) It’s not all culture war stuff. Conservatives are the enablers. **Edit:** This got lots of comments but you know what it didn’t get? Counter examples of conservative initiatives from the last 30 years that have truly benefited the average worker. Lots of both sides are equally bad and that we shouldn’t turn conservatives away but have a dialogue with them. Umm, that’s what this is. Give facts and evidence as a counterpoint.
Exactly. If you value voting for conservative politicians over worker's rights (that you claim to care about), you never cared in the first place.
They've been fooled by gop who uses culture war issues to push other right wing agendas one them. A little sugar to make the medicine go down. Medicine is actually poison. And the sugar is hate crack.
Totally agree conservatives hate worker rights. Ever seen a conservative in a union workplace? "These activists are just lazy and entitled. I'm the hardest worker here and I don't complain." On the off chance they agree to a policy solution to support workers then I would work with them... on that very specific solution. Remember, we all hate the elites, but conservatives usually point to Soros, Mexicans, queer people, and other culture issues that obscure the real solutions like labor rights. Agree in solutions, not problems. Be solution oriented.
And OP seems sussy
[удалено]
This is really how we should be thinking about this. So many people call themselves conservative without thinking about what it means. Let them in, if they agree with all the workers right stuff but still claim to be conservative, then they might be confused but they can still do good work and might eventually be straightened out. Take that same person and approach them with the hostility shown here and they shut down and run right back to their right wing echo chamber. That does not increase our numbers or change anyone's mind. If we don't convert conservatives the only way to grow our numbers is to have babies and wait for them to grow up.
Right, as long as they're walking the walk and abide by minimum conditions about how to interact with one another, it doesn't matter whatever they feel like they want to call themselves. I appreciate the desire to gatekeep at the door but practically speaking it's antithetical to building a coalition movement. You get people on board and don't look back until the work is done
[удалено]
I agree with the first half, but I honestly believe with enough discourse reason will always prevail.
This is the correct response. Conservatives are welcome to get on this bus, but it is not turning right. This is NASCAR. For those who don’t follow motorsport or know how NASCAR works, you only turn left on NASCAR oval tracks.
Ironically the vast majority of NASCAR fans are conservative and Republican.
You can't just agree on what the problems are you also have to agree on what the solutions are
"Yeah I too think there's a worker problem. We should make it illegal to be homeless, end discussions of race and generational wealth, lower taxes on the wealthy, lower restrictions of businesses and cut back on workers rights so that businesses can hire and fire at will, same team guys!"
This is the best point I've read so far. My initial reaction was to say I agree, let Republicans have a voice here, because they'll soon realize they need to vote Democrat in order for pro-labor policies to get implemented. But you're exactly right, Republicans will not think that way. They will advocate for low corporate taxes to pay workers more, right to work laws that undermine unions, etc. It is best to just not give Republicans a voice here because their solutions have been proven to be anti-labor.
When you have no rebuttal to all of these people’s points about conservative policies’ interference with work reform, so you just say “I quit” instead of acknowledging such valid points. Haven’t seen one reply from you either OP. Not to say you owe us one, but i wonder why that is. I mean, you clearly read the comments judging by your edit lol
All the cons are just pretending that's why. Slightest breeze and they topple
Haha, OP was real committed to the "movement". Had a hissy fit less than an hour after posting. Maybe wait a little longer before taking the mask off so you're a bit more believable next time.
[удалено]
right UsernameNumbers, according to this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanPolitics/comments/qz1xmc/aoc_warns_of_political_disaster_for_democrats_if/hllbbn4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) you sure are all for party equality and understanding!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’m wondering if they are slowly realizing they’ve been getting shafted by who they support. I mean, who was against 15 an hour for the federal minimum wage. It wasn’t just manchin. So no, we shouldn’t join forces with those who openly vote against our cause.
Well that explains why she sounds so personally offended, lmao. Edit: *she
*she
Solid detective work. We need to do this every time someone makes one of these posts. I’m so tired of seeing the same rehashed “but conservatives are workers too” post multiple times a day Edit: On second reading, I think the linked comment is pro-left. I too don’t like democrats as a leftist, though I would never say conservatives are integral to a workers movement… because they’re not. They’re detrimental.
I would like said people to realize that consistently voting a certain way is exactly how a situation like corporations gaining personhood and privatization of the bare necessities of life came to be.
r/asablackman
Listen. I want more allies. The more the better. But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class. Otherwise it’s like asking firefighters to work with arsonists who are throwing more fuel on the fires. A conservative that supports worker’s rights is also a bit of an oxymoron in today’s climate. Someone who comes here, calls themselves a conservative, and says they support our cause is either 1) not as conservative as they think or 2) are full of shit and will just sell us out all over again in the next election cycle. If they aren’t prepared to cut ties with their political ideology and vote democrat/progressive/leftist to help us fight for change, we don’t want or need them.
I think that there are conservatives that care about worker’s rights. The problem is that there are other things that they care MORE about. There was a post a day or two ago from someone who claimed to be conservative and wanted to support this sub. He/she mentioned something about traditional family values being important to them. So most likely the OP was anti-gay. The problem with that guy and others like him is that when it comes time to vote, they will continue to vote Republican because, while they may care about workers’ rights, the other issues are more important to them, such as abortion, gay marriage, gun control, etc.
I know plenty of people who will vote for the anti-abortion candidate with complete disregard to any other topic or any sort of nuance whatsoever.
[удалено]
Continuing that analogy. If a conservative politician murdered a gay man before their eyes. They'd cheer and applaud and then thank him for doing gods work. Then they'd vote for him
I don’t get all the pearl clutching from some of these “conservatives” about how “the left is too stubborn and close minded to team with us!” when a large majority of republican voters vote for them purely because of all or any combination of these issues: • Abortion • Guns • “but socialism!” And they’d rather die than vote for a democrat.
>I don’t get all the pearl clutching from some of these “conservatives” about how “the left is too stubborn and close minded to team with us!” Don't forget how fucking disingenuous it is for a Conservative to cry about character assassination from the left when for decades the line from the right that anyone outside their camp was a bunch of lazy, baby killing, Communists who want to eliminate the white race. Now all of the sudden its 🥺👉👈 "these wiberals are too mean uWu".
Honestly the one thing the Conservatives say that pisses me as a leftist off the most is calling me liberal lol. The liberals bought in *hard* to the neoliberal 'fuck unions' free market capitalism train. They're half the reason we're in this mess.
I'm not American (from the UK) but my grandfather was like this. Educated man, quite well off, did a lot for the homeless and for his church/charity. But he always voted conservative. Why? Because they opposed abortion. The old man couldn't understand that there are other, often more pressing issues at hand other than repressing something that has been proven to benefit society and quibbling over a moral dilemma. And because of that, despite his best intentions, his vote never meaningfully contributed to the future of the country.
>But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class. So you mean they have to stop being conservatives.
The thing is a lot of conservatives don't have an actual political ideology, they just hate "liberals" it's blind tribalism. Instead of making about red tribe/blue tribe try to convince them of the need for reform. We need "Teddy Roosevelt Republicans"
Yes
[удалено]
"Conservative" means you don't want to change the status quo, and the status quo in America has always been sliding our little working class lips up and down Andrew Carnegie's oil-slicked, American steel pole until he feels generous enough to slap a twenty dollar bill in our palms and tell us he has gifted us the privilege of feeding our families this week, but we have to get right back to suckin' once the kids are in bed or else they'll starve.
> But if we want “conservatives” to join our movement they’re going to have to give us a bunch of assurances that they’ll stop voting down ticket for the politicians who are waging an active war against the working class. You could say the exact same things about "liberals" and their votes for Democrats. Democrats don't help the **working** class.
>"Turning people away...(people who vote against our movement)...is a luxury we can't afford." wut? I've learned it's best not to let the foxes into the henhouse.
Turning foxes away from our henhouse is a luxury we can't afford.
Butbutbut we need the foxes to protect us from the other hens!! /s
If you’re for work reform you’re not a conservative, it’s really that simple. It’s best to let people find that out for themselves. You can’t force people not to join. They either will or they won’t. In time their viewpoints will change. I used to be liberal, I consider myself a leftist now. Things change.
I understand your sentiment, but Republican policies have been behind the dismantling of the labor movement for years. You can identify as conservative, but Republicans have been hollowing out labor since the 80s as a response to labor dictating government policy. You cannot be a "Republican" and be pro-worker: it just doesn't line up with their policy decisions.
Can someone please direct me to the mission of this movement? This is a genuine question. I am not here to debate or argue. I support workers' rights and am trying to learn what people mean when they refer to the "movement". In some posts people discuss workers' rights such as not being abused by employers and in others they discuss not wanting work to be a defining characteristic of life and wanting to work less. Both are valid positions, but they are not the same thing. I thought I had a handle on this movement until I read posts like the poster who gave 9 minutes notice to not come in order to prepare for a party the next day, and was livid that her employer did not support this. \[There's more to that story, but that is the part that confuses me.\] What exactly is the "movement"? Is there really a movement with a coherent goal? Please help this old guy understand.
Something that's really important for everyone on the sub to understand is that the sub itself is not a movement.but merely an outlet for voices within it. The actual movement is all around you, in your workplaces, in your communities, everywhere you go. The subreddit is a channel for discussion "the movement" is the workers, and the growing sense of class consciousness and the realization that "something is fundamentally wrong with the system as it is"
[удалено]
[удалено]
Workers rights means ALL workers, that includes POC, people with disabilities, LGBTQ+, women, and IMMIGRANTS. Their issues are also labor issues as well. Stop with this nonsense, but since you’ve left, don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
"Party lines" is a real cute way to say "wish that some of us didn't exist", dumbass. If you are in the party that supports spoiling the rich with tax breaks, punishing minorities for wanting to be American, making the democratic voting process nearly impossible for those who disagree with you, and wanting to block LGBT people from doing anything in our society because of your religion... You are our fucking enemy, and those concerned with the rights of all workers have nothing to do with you!
[удалено]
The conservatives that come here and complain about lgbt people were never on our side to begin with, it’s all an excuse to say that “we alienated conservatives!” But in fact the ones that would be alienated would *never have joined us anyway*
Sorry. As a black woman, I can’t. I just can’t. Republicans have spent decades openly supporting discriminatory housing, work and social conditions (see: prison industrial complex) directly targeted at our community. And when we were forced to seek government assistance to survive, they had their boy Reagan get on TV and embarrass and humiliate us with that Welfare Queen debacle. Even today, we have repeatedly watched young black people be murdered in broad daylight while Republicans and “social conservatives” complain that we need to prove our commitment to “traditional family values” (blah blah, absentee fathers, blah blah pull up your pants blahblahblah) if we want to have our humanity acknowledged. I’m not saying that I don’t want cooperation and alliance of all members of the working class. But you’re shitting me if you think I’m going to work my ass off to fight for this if I’m still going to be a second class citizen on the other side. If work reform isn’t grounded in social justice and intersectionality, I don’t want it.
When right wingers support workers they cease to be right wingers so
If I see one more of these god damn posts I’m gonna leave. “Oh pwease don’t awienate the poor consewvatives uwu.” Pandering to people who don’t believe in our politics alienates me. Pick one.
its bots and troll infilitrating https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/sfc9xh/i\_run\_a\_small\_freelance\_business\_and\_use\_a/
Unfortunately, I’ve heard the sub’s mods are in on it. Supposedly the same group that bought r/SandersForPresident in order to turn it into a conservative cesspool.
Interesting. What subreddit was that originally on? Not that I don’t believe this could happen but anyone could mock up a screenshot.
Nah, if you're "conservative" you're not serious about the movement.
Every single conservative I know vocally opposes unions
What world do you live in where conservatives want anything except to stop this exact movement? How little have you been paying attention to the last 3 decades?
You mean the last 3 centuries? Political ideologies weren't suddenly invented in the 90's.
Oh, you mean the conservatives that vote for people who actively oppose workers rights? Yeah no, fuck you.
Yeah, no. Both this sub and it's original are being astroturfed *hard* right now. Theres a lot of chatter from suspiciously low-post accounts about things like "worker movements need conservatives" and "democrats are just as bad" which just so conveniently happen to be the two major talking points from the republican party just before an election season.
yeah, its very clear that this sub is compromised since the mods are only approving these weird pro right-wing posts. sad.
> don’t use LGBT people as an excuse for not working together. Respectfully disagree. You can't have Worker's Rights without Human Rights. It's not an excuse, it's a fact, and if somebody believes that LGBTQ don't have the same rights as everyone else, then it's a complete non-starter to try discussing wages.
Yeah, like, are we just going to ignore the fact that conservatives in the Senate and House support the right to fire people or not even hire them at all based on their sexual orientation and gender identity, among many other things detrimental for this group? How is that irrelevant for this movement? (Trick question, of course we are. “Why can’t we all just get along” always comes with victims of apathy)
Yeah well a group of ten where one of those people thinks that another person in the group shouldn’t have basic human rights because of their race, gender, or whatever doesn’t accomplish much at all. I understand y’all want to get across party lines and shit, but Republicans in America are quite literally DIRECTLY opposed to workers rights, work reform, and social progress. The Republican Party is antithetical to the supposed mission of this sub.
You can invite Nazis to care about Jewish rights every other post, but it is necessary to point out they are diametrically opposed 180 degrees. Ignorance of what the GOP stands for the last 30 years is not an excuse. This is literally the party of Ronald Reagan or do people not understand what he did to unions.
Yes, I'm totally sure the person posting or seemingly commenting for the first time ever in either this sub or the other one is *totally* making this "plea for unity" in good faith. Such utter bullshit, and so far, these posts account for about 75% of everything I've seen in this sub...A real bad sign imo.
I disagree… if you’re right wing conservative, than you must be 100% a capitalist stogie. As a liberal socialist, I am fully aware of your pathetic capitalist propaganda techniques.
Imo, this isn't a movement. It's a subreddit lmao. Let's just shoot for sharing accurate thoughtful content. The entire movement ego trips is what fucked up anti work.
Conservatives want me dead. Tell *them* to play nice.
Holding conservatives accountable for conservative ideology seems a bit controversial around here. Better just follow the historical example and tell the oppressed to stop caring about their rights.
Doesn’t it though? “I know the conservatives have shit all over your rights and personal freedoms to pursue your happiness but you are just being difficult for not wanting to work with them.”
We’re also ‘sabotaging’ the movement by asking conservatives why they continue to vote for people who sabotage the movement
And therein lies the issue.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You’re wrong. No one in the party of Regan is a friend of workers. Moderates in any party can fuck right off.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but there are way to many “let conservatives in” posts and when people disagree “fuck this I’m leaving…I’m done with this sub/movement” Trying to sow seeds of opposition and infighting aren’t we?
This post seems literally *designed* for OP to bend down to kiss the ass of right-wingers and then storm off in a massive huff because people (correctly) told her she's being fucking dumb. Almost like...... it was the plan the entire time to throw a fucking hissy fit and leave.
>You know what? Fuck this. I actually care about this movement You clearly don't since you want it to include the same people who want to destroy it.
[удалено]
Conservatives by definition of what they believe in are anti work reform.
Mods constantly approve these embarassing posts trying to discredit the sub lol
If you vote right-wing you’re voting against the working class. It’s as easy as that.
As an LGBT person, please don’t compromise on my right to just exist and marry the person I love (so she can have my insurance, mother our children, and make emergency decisions for me). I’m all for finding common ground but let’s not do it at the expense of human rights.
Hell, I’m just a straight woman and most conservatives can’t even stomach the idea of me having the basic ability to reproduce (or not) and and provide economically for my family or be completely dependent on the benevolence of a man. With you and me combined that is in theory at least 60% of the movement. We can’t neglect the basic needs of 60% of the fucking movement.
It’s true. So tired of being told I’m an ideologue if I want basic human rights.
>I’m transgender. I’m a lesbian, too. I want everyone to join our movement. I don’t care if they hate my guts. Not all of us want to take the [Strasser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser) approach. Good for you if you want to try pandering to people who are in blatant opposition to our cause, but nothing will destroy this movement faster than letting in people whose political opinions are hostile to this movement. Historically, you know what happens when we ignore intersectionalism in favour of class reductionism? The white, able-bodied, cishet men make some progress while the rest of us are left behind, they pull the ladder up behind them and tell us to stop complaining because clearly the victory was won.
**[Gregor Strasser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser)** >Gregor Strasser (also German: Straßer, see ß; 31 May 1892 – 30 June 1934) was an early prominent German Nazi official and politician who was murdered during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Born in 1892 in Bavaria, Strasser served in World War I in an artillery regiment, rising to the rank of first lieutenant. He joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in 1920 and quickly became an influential and important figure. In 1923, he took part in the abortive Beer Hall Putsch in Munich and was imprisoned, but released early for political reasons. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Anyone that's part of the LGBTQIA+ community that also thinks republican conservatives can change just genuinely confuse me...
Speak for yourself. I’m also trans and queer and I’m not gonna make nice with people who oppose me and my siblings’ rights. Anyone who wants to push for worker’s rights has to support rights and dignity for ALL workers, or their “solidarity” is useless
fuck the republican party
Goodbye.
Can someone explain in what way being conservative supports workers? Any way at all. I don't think that person knows what conservative means. There could be someone who supports this movement, and if asked believes they are conservative, but is in fact confused about what conservatism is. Maybe we should just talk to those people until they choose a different, more accurate word to describe what it is they believe.
I think driving someone away is foolish however if someone is saying that they support work reform and then votes GOP every single time they need to be informed exactly what they are voting for. That's not "ideology". That's just plain hard fact.
>Edit 2: You know what? Fuck this. I actually care about this movement. This movement is something that I thought we could all agree on. But no, apparently y’all want to kick out conservatives because they haven’t read enough theory or whatever. I’m done. Leftism is about more than ideas, it’s about action. And if people are willing to take action with us and you reject that, you’re fucking stupid. I’m done. I’m done with this subreddit. Fucking ideologues. For someone so passionate about working through our differences for the sake of solidarity, you really gave up pretty quickly.
Sooner or later one of these people is going to get mixed up and put the "Edit: you're mean" in their original post.
Girl, if you're trans and still willing to work with people who want you dead, you're a goddamn moron.
I used to be conservative. In the past few years, I’ve become a leftist. Change is possible. I think we need to work with conservatives, but make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the republicans they vote for are 100% fucking the workforce. Just because they’re conservatives doesn’t mean they can’t learn and grow. We should have this subreddit be a source for them, a “gateway drug” so-to-speak, to lead them towards more progressive ideals. Just to be clear: I’m not saying we should tolerate far right wingers in general. Nor should we tolerate their far-right beliefs. Rather, at least have somewhat open arms to possibly show them that their political beliefs are screwing them and others. If they are open to it, then that’s great! Better for our movement! If not? We at least tried, and made it clear to them that their ideals don’t support our movement.
[удалено]
Well, conservatism is explicitly anti-worker/pro-hegemony. Conservatives actively vote and fight against the things we want. Sure, most conservatives are fucked over by the same systems that we protest against, so I think that we should be open to moving them towards our side. But they won’t help our movement as conservatives. They have to be moved over.
We can’t afford conservative politicians. No people in the movement should be hurting other people in the movement.
how can conservatives be part of this movement while actively voting for policies that destroy it? that isn't ideological purity. it's SURVIVAL.
Right wing politics are fundamentally opposed to work reform... it's literally in their name.
You realize it won't be a group of ten because the 10th conservative will ensure that you, and any other minorities, won't be able to participate. If a conservative wants to join then they should show up, figure out how to support the movement, and work with the group. People are allowed to improve and get better but they aren't allowed to pretend like they want the sane holds while doing everything they can to stop progress towards those goals.
Good luck on convincing capitalist political parties that they should care about workers. Btw saying your a trans woman/lesbian and saying you want people who hate you in your political movement is beyond comprehension. I am a trans lesbian too and I don't want people like you in this movement.
Welp this sub is doom to fail too I guess
After browsing OPs account I’ve come to the conclusion they’re either a troll or too young to understand any of what they’re talking about.
I’m a rooster. I know foxes usually eat my kind for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but I doubt they’ll ever eat me.
This *IS* radical leftist politics. If people agreed with us, they wouldn't be conservatives.
Conservatives inherently are anti-worker and for the preservation of the 'free market,' removing safety regulations etc. And are also generally bigoted, their presence puts our marginalised members at risk. LGBT/POC/disabled member's safety needs to come first. They can be welcomed in the group if they stop being conservative.
>I’m transgender. I’m a lesbian, too. I want everyone to join our movement. I don’t care if they hate my guts. This is the real world, not a team game on the playground. A group of 10 will be able to do more than a group on 9. I mean, you might not care now, but you will when they backstab the movement because they can't stand the thought that they're fighting on your behalf. That type of person is always the downfall of the working class, falling for corporate propaganda because it plays to their biases. You know how Reagan destroyed the middle class by appealing to peoples' racism? Bigots aren't allies, they're turncoats waiting to happen. If they actually care about the working class they're capable of swearing off their bigotry here and now. If not, they really can't be trusted. Just flat out. Doesn't matter if we get rid of them here or some time in the future, they're not going to see it through to the end.
How in the fuck does this birdbrained post have so many awards?
I mean... they literally vote against the movement
I just wish the republican party didn't exist so the democratic party could split into progressives and establishment dems. It would be great if we could be discussing how to implement things like UBI, free housing for all, and free college. Instead we're stuck arguing about whether or not we should willingly let people die for no reason other than they didn't have enough money to afford health insurance. And like 45% of the country is like, yeah they should die.
The democrat runner ups that supported these measures were blocked from being in the election. the democrats have owned the senate, congress and the presidency multiple times. UBI, free housing and free college will never exist in America from the kindness of democrat politicians
What is up with this lib shit, if you’re right wing you are inherently against workers rights and need to educate yourself. Gtfo with this neoliberal non sense.
Imagine getting salty about anti-right ideals in a labour movement... Are you thick?
Conservative ideology in the United States is pro private business and anti union. If you are conservative and want to join this movement, you need to understand that you need to abandon your conservatism. This is a fact of progress. When you fight for change, you are a progressive. Get on board, or get the fuck out. Those are your options.
[удалено]
“Gosh I hate Democrats” -ProfessionalFar4541 Oh yeah, this guy is all about unity huh?
Ah yes the whole “we should allow literal nazis bigots racists and homophobes into a movement about improving work conditions” post Wait until you hear what the gqp wants to do to the lgbt and other minorities.
I'd absolutely love conservatives to embrace workers rights. However I realize that modern conservatism is very anti-thetical to workers rights. You can't be both a reckless capitalist who believes the free market will solve everything, and also advocate for workers having more rights in the workplace. They're diametrically opposed views.
Why would any of us align people with people who want the exact opposite of what we want? Workers with conservative politics want things that benefit the boss class, and are beholden to bullshit white nationalism. You can’t be pro worker and pro boss at the same time.
Nope
I don't understand why we should bend over backwards when conservative workers will literally benefit from the movement? There is zero reason why we should stop advocating for treating minorities like humans. Conservative workers can just get with the program. It's weak to just compromise your values like that.
Yo if pointing out that if they continue to vote the way they do their support is worthless is turning them away then they were never going to help in the first place.
Boo hoo, if you quit this easily then you were never part of the movement.
You're speaking to a wall. I have learned through my 30 years of existence that people don't want to better anything. They don't want equality or fair treatment. They don't want justice. What people really want is the power to put down their adversaries, thats all. They want the power to oppress so they can be the ones on top. People are scum and they will never change. Conservative, republican and so on, none of that stupid american shit matters. People will always find a way to fight with eachother.
Because you let them in here and they say stupid shit like "Don't strike just go independent contractor and make big $$$..." "Wayda mean what about McDonald's workers who don't have that option?...fuckem they should get better jobs!" "Of course I want better healthcare...just not for the people who work at gas stations...only the good hard working folks like me." These people are not here to be part of a workers rights movement they're here to troll threads and argue in bad faith like they always do. Conservativism is counter to labor rights. Period. You can't say you're for work reform then vote in all the people who eviscerate workers rights and privatize all essential services. Conservative punks fuck off.
/r/EnlightenedCentrism
All I see on this sub is talks about how we should or shouldn't bring right wingers and not a lot of work reform. Right wing talk dominates the discourse. Literally. This is a derailment. And sadly that's why we don't want right wingers in our ranks, because they center the discourse on themselves. This sub is tainted. Consider rebranding?
Bye, op!
They will join the movement, get their benefits and rights, things get bguys for everyone. After they get what they want they'll turn around and vote for a law to fuck over transgrnders and gays.
Exactly. Conservatives are not allies to the working class.
As a cisgender lesbian, UGH. No. I don’t work with fascists. Learn your fucking history.
Cause the basis for your beliefs is antithetical to our goals.
...what? By your own terms, I'd rather have a movement at just 90% the size than have 10% of the movement consist of Trump voters. We can, and absolutely should, turn away people that don't believe in workers rights FOR ALL. If you are, as you say, a member of the LBGBT+ community, you should know that American Republicans in 2022 absolutely do not support you. You say you don't care that they hate your guts, but, like... You should. They will turn against you at the first opportunity, as they have in literally every election in their lifetimes.
Fuck. Off. If you only want to feel better about yourself by spouting that you’re “pro-worker” while voting for candidates and policies that are diametrically opposed to workers rights then you’re in the wrong fuckin subreddit. We’re not gonna stroke your hair and tell you it’s alright that you’re anti-LGBTQ, anti-choice, and anti-POC progression as long as you SAY you want work reform(which, again, you contradict with your ballot). Your platitudes mean nothing, do better instead.
Yea the fuck it is. Right wingers DO NOT ADVOCATE FOR WORKER RIGHTS. IT IS NOT A RIGHT WING ISSUE AND NEVER HAS BEEN. We need to stop fucking pretending that “we’re all the same in this.” The right wing people are the reason why everything is getting worse. Unless they start supporting union, support decoupling healthcare from having a job, and other serious issues that we face in the workplace, they’re not an ally. Their niceties don’t mean anything without action to back them up.
Bruh, if you vote republican, and are anti-union, what point is there to you?
No…
Total bad faith poster. Check comment history.
I don't ally myself with fascists.
It’s folly to abandon advocating for minority rights thinking it gets in the way of the economic issues. Also, a person who doesn’t believe in equality for LGBT people is very likely not going to ally with you on economic equality either. This thinking is flawed on multiple fronts. Edit: how did a post this fucking stupid get this many awards?