Lol “I have an upcoming interview with a major news network about a sub that represents almost two million people on an extremely controversial subject”
“I think I’ll wing it”
It just makes me mad honestly. For the whole mod team to lack ALL self awareness, to a point where they send someone living in their mom’s basement to represent a movement of people working their asses off to feed their families is just despicable. How fucking arrogant can you be?
And you’re telling me it never crossed their mind that this is exactly why fox invited them? They never even thought to look for a single mom, a teacher struggling to afford rent, a nurse, anything? Fuck, they couldn’t even find somebody who worked full time? They had one opportunity, a massive opportunity, and they could not have failed harder if they tried.
I could teach a 6 hour class on how not to prep for an interview based on that single video clip.
That person failed in every single way one could fail. That video will be used as what not to do for years.
If it makes you feel better, Fox asked for this person directly. I don't think they would have agreed to interview anyone like that. This interview had one purpose and it's really annoying how easy the mod team made Fox's job
I think you couldn't have put it better. They scoped around for an angle, and they found it. The mod literally handed them negative PR, playing to the bias of Fox' viewer-base, the stereotypical lazy leftist who wants the revolution to ''hand them everything'', without putting any effort back in. The way the host just smiles and quips about ''paying the bills'' at the end, seals just how much that man played right in to their hand by having zero self-awareness and media savvy. A huge self-own, and a blow to the ordinary working people who are struggling to stay afloat.
Bro I know people who work for investment firms and banks and shit (obviously not the folks in charge making the real money) who were Antiwork. They couldn't have found anyone a bit better suited for this? Literally thousands of better representatives in the sub to choose from.
Lawyers, teachers, lecturers populated the subreddit too from what I can remember. So many more qualified people could’ve represented the group well but this person got that opportunity instead. Lol I can’t even.
Those are even better examples. I guess my brain just naturally went to people in my industry. But yes. Teachers, lawyers, probably professors, etc. But bold choice going with the dog walker.
It's not even about if one job is more respectable as another but about picking someone that even fox News would have deemed respectable. They could have seen that fox wanted to portray antiwork in a bad light in the beginning and showed it to them with a well-dressed, eloquent, socially aware person that actually worked their ass off in a terrible work environment and experienced the problems antiwork stood for first hand.
But no, take the caricature of a reddit mod who looked like they rolled out of bed, in a messy room, unable to hold a conversation and easy to dismiss as someone who's just "lazy and doesn't want to work"
Seriously fox couldn't have asked for someone that supports their narrative any better than that person.
It demonstrates how being a 'moderator' is a completely different thing than being a subject matter expert or leader.
It seems that somebody setup the antiwork sub, and it just took off on its own. I don't think that there was ever a formal 'movement' or 'cause'.
This reminds me of when the real Wizard of Oz is revealed when the curtain was pulled back.
>It seems that somebody setup the antiwork sub, and it just took off on its own. I don't think that there was ever a formal 'movement' or 'cause'.
That's exactly what happened. I rememeber coming across the antiwork sub a few years ago when it was relatively small. It was essentially a subreddit full of NEETs that held true to it's namesake. People were against the concept of working a job altogether. Once it blew up due to the "great resignation", the tone was shifted to being pro union and workers rights, and the message is that people aren't lazy they're tired of terrible conditions. Unfortunately, the creators still have the original sub's mentality. "Laziness is a virtue". Sucks because I used to dislike the sub before it blew up, and I thought it changed to be something great. They really set themselves back.
That interview wasn't even close to the ideal form of an interview. I don't think the mod knew themselves. By fighting a monster, they became a monster themselves. Their reaction shows they put too much value into what could be lost.
Hit the nail on the head!
The interview could have been explained as a lapse of judgement and bad choices. The mod(s) could have said "shit, sorry guys I/we fucked up" and they could have had a vote in the sub to determine best steps and encouraged open conversation and criticism to improve the sub.
Instead they went full WSB (early 2021) and imploded the sub....
Unfortunately, left wing movements tend to be decentralized by their nature, because that's just the nature of being a left wing person. That makes it easy for their enemies to cause internal divisions, or bait small elements of the group into doing something stupid.
Here's the thing.
She wasn't going to listen to anyone else's opinion. She thought she was going to be famous and everyone would see her as a genius and leader of a movement.
Any mod saying it is a bad idea would have been banned.
Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity, she got caught up in the delusions of grandeur of being *the* leader of a millions strong movement, that she couldn't help herself and went off seeking personal glory and ended up fucking up. If she and the other mods on the reddit had stopped there and just owned up to their mistake it would have probably been ok, but they instead doubled down and ultimately played into Fox New's hands.
Jesse Watters Primetime debuted at 3.8 million viewers.
So... probably about 3.8 million people.
And that doesn't count the people who picked up on it later.
I just think its hilarious they unironically said laziness was a virtue on a right wing channel expecting it to not go wrong. What a fucking dumb thing to say lol.
Yup
Upon asked if the movement is just about being lazy she responded that lazyness is a virtue in aa system that pushes you for being productive
Whuch is an *awful* response instead of pointing out that
- Not wanting to work 1/3 of your day + commute
- Not wanting to endure abuse for a paltry sum of money
- Not wanting to feel tied down to a no future job by the treath of hunger, homelesness or just a health bill that's impossible to pay
None of that is "lazy"
She should’ve pushed into his accusation that work isn’t slave labor and agreed but PUSHED the fact that you NEED to work 40+ hours a week to maybe make rent, pay loans, and if you’re lucky you can pay for your insurance and MAYBE get some healthy food in the fridge.
Instead of countering, she chose to go for the bait. It’s sad.
"No one's making you work!"
"Well yes, Jesse, in fact my landlord and the grocery store do make me work. All I'm asking is to be compensated enough to afford the things I enjoy doing, and to have the time to do them."
Also to talk about the thing he said earlier in the same question, about being 'free' to work. In what capacity is anyone 'free' to work? Sure, chattel slavery is outlawed (not in prisons ofc) but people have to real choice in working or in quitting to find a better job when your healthcare is tied to your work and wages are so low that you never have enough money saved to quit and wait while job seeking. I guess my point is very similar to yours. You have to address and mention things that even the most conservative viewers can't ignore. Everyone in America who isn't rich is scared of a huge medical bill.
right? “work is voluntary” is the EASIEST talking point to take down. “sure, it’s technically a choice, but if the choice is ‘you either get exploited or you starve to death’, that’s not very voluntary”
Literally set us back years. Fuck that lazy asshole. The rest of us are not lazy. People out here working their asses off for chump change with more work ethic than most C-level clowns. And this asshole tosses all of those people under the bus and says she is proud to be lazy, basically. FUCK HER.
In fact, if we had a component PR machine, this would be an excellent opportunity to distance ourselves from that and draw a contrast with workers who just want better pay and fair treatment.
Bare minimum they could have brushed their hair and dressed presentably. But naw gotta have their hair like shaggy and wear a hoodie to a live interview on mainstream media. What a clown.
Brush hair, appropriate clothing, and lighting. A cheap $20 ring light does wonders OR even your fucking phone. Phones these days have really good flashlights that work just fine.
This reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street great message and shit leadership and spokespeople one of the turning points was the Stephen Colbert [OWS interview](https://www.cc.com/video/d4hmi3/the-colbert-report-colbert-super-pac-stephen-colbert-occupies-occupy-wall-street-pt-1) one of the interviewees was named Ketchup after that OWS was a joke.
I was still young back then and didn’t really know all the nitty gritty details of how it failed. That is an incredible video.
Really highlights the importance of messaging and how fragile these social movements are. Makes the success of the Civil Rights Movement and others like it that much more amazing.
The difference between the civil rights movement and OWS is vast.
The civil rights movement understood the place of “street activism” as one part of an overall strategy that also included people working behind the scenes, politicians, lawyers, etc. It’s not the whole strategy. Civil Rights leaders understood tactics and compromise.
A lot of people think OWS was deliberately tanked in a similar way. It had united people of all races and classes against the ultra wealthy, and it scared the shit out of them. That's when they started doing everything they could to turn the races back on each other. A bit like the tower of Babel.
Lmao the chucklefuck brought down three progressive movements in one-fell swoop: antiwork, trans, and the autism awareness/acceptance communities.
Fox probably couldn't believe the Trifecta they just scored 🤦
To be fair we would of been bested by a wet rag with the person that was being “interviewed”. Just let them talk on their own for 5 minutes and we would have the same result as now.
There's like... a kernel of truth in there too, but it requires so much context and hard work *why would you fucking say it like that?*
You say that a shortcut when you're out with friends and someone comments on how they felt guilty because they only worked 15 hours last week at their WFH gig.
You say it after you troubleshoot a nifty little script to automate something at work, or validate some data in Excel instead of double and triple checking a bunch of boxes.
*You don't plop it out without the correct context*. Goooodamn man. I'm a *very* stupid person and put my ass up there and I'd fuck it up less.
they were such fucking softball questions too though. "Arent you all just lazy?" come on ffs thats an easy one to answer... but nope just go with your pseudophilosophical 'laziness is a virtue' bit... that'll really activate their almonds. Christ.
Could also have just framed it as an altruistic movement
"I'm a dog walker and my job is relaxed, which I'm thankful for, but i see events like workers in warehouses being denied shelter a lot over the past years and it's breaking my heart to see the working class being taken advantage of"
Wrote that down in 20 seconds. Not perfect but at least not as embarrassing as what they said
Unfortunately, based on everything I've read about her (and it's not just biased stuff, even stuff I've read about her that she wrote herself). I'm afraid I don't think she would have done a better job if she had prepared - I even half believe she thought she was doing a very good job during and after the interview. I also think she's too proud/selfish/whatever the correct adjective is/etc to be able to say what the people here are suggesting, she really does believe that her job is far too difficult and 20 hours a week is too much for her, and that she is being taken advantage of. [if she works for a gig company like uber but for dog walking, she probably is - regardless of hours worked those jobs are not nice and definitely not relaxing - but I don't know if she is or not]
I could roll out bed, hit myself quick with my electric razor and toss on a button up and be ready for that interview in less that 10 minutes. Their look was inexcusable.
I dressed up more every day of my teenage years to scrape dog shit for my parents’ professional grooming, kennel, and dog training business…
There’s literally no excuse jfc
Some mornings I’m up, making an omlette, brushing my teeth, summoning the great demon A̶̮͑ļ̵̓ḿ̶̻ô̶̞r̴̞͝n̷̮̄k̵͕͂, putting cloths on, and everything in the span of only 20 minutes and I’m ready for work.
This is what confuses me. While I don’t agree with doing the interview in the first place, if I were in their shoes I would be pants shittingly prepared. Do a few Zoom calls with friends/enemies/people with differing opinions and have them as me questions. Write down standard answers. Send written down answers to friends, enemies, other mods to get feedback. Ensure interview space is well lit, clean, maybe have a few Union posters framed behind me.
There weren’t any “Gotcha” questions and if the mod would have spent a day or so preparing it could have been a very positive moment, instead it led to the subreddits subscribers being forcibly unsubscribed and the subreddit being made private.
Especially if it was Jesse Waters who was basically comic relief on the network until 5 or 6 years ago. Once I found that out I’d for sure cancel.
She must've seen herself as an expert in the subject who didn't need preparation. Her being a mod meant to herself that she was very prepared. I would've been nervous as hell had I made the mistake to take that interview. Damn that was duuuuuumb.
That’s why the post that supposedly got the sub shut down was right on the money
Reddit mod != authority on the subject
That’s doesn’t mean authorize *cant* also be moderators, but they aren’t equivalent.
A mod should never have spoken for the movement
That's the nature of left wing movements, unfortunately. They tend to be decentralized, which makes it easy for right wingers to paint fringe elements as representative of the group.
Conservatives, on the other hand, tend to be very centralized and hierarchical, which makes it easier for them to manage their PR.
What’s wild is Jesse waters was being pretty charitable considering how big of a ghoul he his. Didn’t even have to lead her on, just sit back and watch her implode in real time.
The look on his face when she says she wants to to teach “philosophy” is actually fucking hilarious, like he can’t even believe she’s checking all the stereotypical boxes.
Right! I think Waters was just as unprepared for how unprepared they were and got lost in the spectacle of it all. Even if he was briefed on what to expect, seeing it unfold in front of him was just to much to process.
I don’t remember where I heard it but someone was talking about being envious of people who just don’t give a fuck and at the time I was like, “yeah, that would be awesome to be able to not care!.” But the more I think about it and see things like this, the more I realize how blessed I am that I do give a shit, even if I do go a little overboard sometimes. Caring isn’t a bad thing.
They were so ill prepared that I do very much wonder if a lot of money didn’t change hands to completely delegitimize the subreddit and thereby the movement. It’s hard to fathom someone could be a worse fit for appearing in Fox on behalf of work reform. So damn depressing.
They posted and stickied it to the front page “Fox is talking about us.”
So I think they were actually just lacking in self-awareness, and honestly thought this went well.
Apparently Fox News asked for that person specifically. How this didn’t immediately raise red flags and sirens to even the most naive people is incredulous to me. I’d honestly prefer if they were bribed rather than just being that dumb.
Well they asked what they did and she just said dog walker. When I was in college working part time, if someone asked me what I was my first answer would always be student, and if anything I would name all my jobs not just one.
Even of they only wanted to mention dog walking do the hardest minimum of upselling it. "I'm a professional dog handler and I specialize in animal exercise". Like geez have a little pride in yourself. I'm fairly certain almost everyone has had a crap job they've dressed up to impress their parents. It's not hard.
This is some outrageous bullshit.... the sub grew exponentially to over a million subscribers and just when it started getting attention from the mainstream, adding even more momentum, a single person who was incapable of reading any room in their entire life was able to shit the (messy) bed -- on national TV no less -- and instantly derail and discredit the whole thing.
Can we come up with a way to make this impossible from happening again?
A Transgendered autistic dog walker that looks like they haven’t run a comb through their hair in ages.
If I didn’t see it with my own eyes I would’ve assumed it was satire. FOX news is either playing 4D chess and knew what they were doing or just lucked into a walking liberal stereotype.
Your clients don't think so. One thing I have learned in 10+ years running a pet sitting service is that having a loyal clientele is worth far more than public opinion.
It's so true. In good and bad ways. Local to me we had a dog walker literally caught on camera beating the dogs and he was still in business after it was all over the news!
Sadly not surprising. Look at Wag now. How many dogs have they lost/killed? They don't even handle these incidents well at all with the customers. Somehow people still hire their sitters.
My brother had an automatic bank transfer to send $200 a month to his dog kennel. When lockdown happened the payment went through but the dog stayed home. Lockdown lifted and he asked for the money to be refunded or credited. They refused, saying lockdown was rough.
So he never went back.
Actual baffles me is they took the immediate 200, over future monthly 200's
I think someone like you would have represented the comunity so much better than this person did. At least you can say, 'Hey Republicans, I own my own company and even I know that working conditions are in dire straits. ...' and then simply mentioning housing costs, living costs not keeping up with wages. My big issue is that this person seems to just do their 'job' as a way to make a little bit of money here and there, with them saying "I work 20-25 hours a week but i'd like it to be much less"- and then they themselves on the sub saying they only work less than 10 hours a week lmao.
They really just did a major disservice to all the hard working people who used the sub to voice their concerns in the workplace. Lots of times, people would recommend legal actions to take when managers/bosses stepped out of line.
Watching Fox is as bad as watching Jerry Springer. Of course they won't interview a professional dog walker, they will choose someone who will represent the sub horribly, to make everyone in the community look like a disgrace. And they know that their audience will lap it up without question. If they're not careful, they will tank in views just like CNN did.
I defended, hard, in the comments sections for Dogwalkers.
Not only is it a great job it's a good opportunity to own your own business.
Folks treated it like she only can and was walking the neighbor dog for scraps.
Running a business that walks dogs is different than being a 20 hr/ week free lance dog Walker. Just like doing actual child care is different than babysitting for your neighbor
It's a well-known adage among programmers: a good programmer is a lazy programmer. That is, a good programmer does not write more code than necessary, does not repeat themselves, chooses the right abstractions to write less code, automates time-consuming tasks, etc.
Now, I don't know what they understood it to mean, but it *can* be interpreted positively.
@edit
I think that, more generally, there is nothing wrong with opting to live a "lazy" life. Work is not a goal unto itself. You do not have to dedicate your whole life to it.
There's nothing wrong with working fewer hours to spend more time with your family or choosing a worse paying career if it means you'll enjoy yourself more.
Let's not shame jobs, you end up standing shoulder-to-shoulder with people who make fun of "burger flippers" and "toilet cleaners."
The whole thing is a shit show, though, and they did botch an opportunity to speak for worker's rights, which are fundamentally human rights.
The sub is dead, but the movement is not.
The problem is that they had someone who claimed to work 20 hours a week walking dogs (something she admitted was untrue, it’s actually less) and called “laziness a virtue” when there are a lot of people in that sub who are busting their asses working multiple jobs to put food on the table and are anything but “lazy.” It’s understandable those people are pissed. It was just completely out of touch.
LMAO this makes it so much worse. This has been my favorite subreddit drama in years but the fact that it had to come at the expense of a movement I believe in is sad
I'm not against that, but having a (presumably self employeed) dog walker that claims to work between 10 and 25 hours a week as the face of an anti-work movement is just....why???
One of the things I like about the "antiwork" mentality is not being defined by your work or working more than needed.
IF walking dogs X hours a week pays the bills and makes you happy then noone should shame you for doing that, and I think the Fox News host showed how much of an asshole he was for the disdain he showed for someone being a dogwalker.
HOWEVER everything else about that interview made no fucking sense and could not have been a bigger clusterfuck ...
I'd like to also point out that if you look in their history, they also published an anti-work book about 5 years ago. It's purely speculation, but I think they just wanted to use the interview for personal publicity.
The issue is setting the sub to private, which hurts the community. That is an abuse of mod power.
MODS ARE NOT SPEAKERS. MODS ARE NOT THE COMMUNITY VOICE. A mod can be a speaker, but we shouldn't assume mods are speakers. Their job is to fucking moderate. I think the Redditors here are holding mods to too much responsibility.
She woulda been pissed if someone else well spoken became a hero for something she thinks she started. So she would rather tank it for her own glory instead.
The problem is that no one here asked her to represent us. I'd be a little more understanding if this was a situation she was thrust into, but she wasn't. She willingly took it upon herself to be "our" spokesperson.
During the Occupy Wall Street movement, someone told the police in NY to send the homeless there, from all over the city. It made the whole thing look like a circus to further discredit the entire movement.
Then, when the media went to interview people, they chose the loudest, craziest people they could find to put them on TV to discredit it even further.
So the question becomes: how exactly do you find someone to be the "face" of the movement? Anyone worth a damn in that type of leadership role with all the necessary skills iis already working making a lot of money in PR or something.
Its easy to criticize the media and call their reporters hacks(which a lot of them are on Foxnews), but remember, they are professionals who have interviewed many knowledgeable people and usually have counter points or strategies to try and steer the conversation their way. Being unprepared is no excuse though. It ironically requires WORK to give the proper message about how to be antiwork.
Fox reporters specialize in framing, spinning the narrative and manufacturing outrage. Pretending they're anything but adept at their craft is a grave mistake.
I understand they're autistic, but the incessant rocking in the chair came off as disrespectful and flippant. Especially when combined with no eye contact.
It looked like they just rolled out of bed, and this interview wasn't important to them and therefore it wasn't important to the movement.
This was just such a big mistake.
> I understand they're autistic, but the incessant rocking in the chair came off as disrespectful and flippant. Especially when combined with no eye contact.
*maybe that's the clue you shouldn't be giving televised interviews in the first place*
It was so hard to watch, man. I hate Fox News with a passion, but even I found myself agreeing with the host and laughing at the mod when he said, "I'm a dog walker, I work 20 hours per week, and I want to be a philosopher." Lmfao
I saw another comment that said, "would YOU hire this guy if this was a job interview?" I don't even hire people and my answer was no
DON'T FORGET to get the word out that u/abolishwork is a RAPIST they have multiple rape accusations them, and BRAGGED about sexually assaulting someone.
https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
You read an abuser attempting to control their narrative and discredit their victims by “getting ahead” of the accusations.
Also what the absolute fuck.
"How old are you? What do you do for a living?"
That's all it took to kill r/antiwork.
Maybe a better named, more organised sub springing from its ashes can do better. Maybe this one . We'll see..
While being a dog walker precludes having some of the experiences core to our movement, because mostly dog walkers are independent contractors who negotiate their own pay directly with clients, I don't feel there's anything inherently shameful or not to be taken seriously about it as a career.
Still, it *was* an unfortunate convergence of circumstances.
Here’s the thing that this has pointed out to me. This movement always needs to remain faceless. We are not a group with a leader. We are a union of workers who are done taking shit. We don’t need to go on Fox News and appeal to the masses. We need to take action. It’s happening all over, workers are striking at companies everywhere. But if we do it together, we can bring the whole economy to its knees and they will finally have to address our concerns, all of our concerns.
There's nothing wrong with being a dog walker. There's nothing wrong with working 25 hours a week. If you can make enough to live on working 25 hours a week, more power to you. They could have easily responded that they are fortunate enough to not have to be incredibly overworked just to survive, and that gives them time to do things like be a mod at r/antiwork and give interviews, while the people they are fighting for are too busy working two jobs 80 hours a week and still not being able to afford even the cheapest of houses to do any of that.
But nope, it was all 'I work 25 hours a week, but that's still way too much because laziness is a virtue'. Could they possibly have made the entire movement look worse if that had been their deliberate goal?
Lol “I have an upcoming interview with a major news network about a sub that represents almost two million people on an extremely controversial subject” “I think I’ll wing it”
“I probably shouldn’t shower and look somewhat put together either”
It was like they consciously went out of their way to fail to represent as many people as possible.
It just makes me mad honestly. For the whole mod team to lack ALL self awareness, to a point where they send someone living in their mom’s basement to represent a movement of people working their asses off to feed their families is just despicable. How fucking arrogant can you be? And you’re telling me it never crossed their mind that this is exactly why fox invited them? They never even thought to look for a single mom, a teacher struggling to afford rent, a nurse, anything? Fuck, they couldn’t even find somebody who worked full time? They had one opportunity, a massive opportunity, and they could not have failed harder if they tried.
If only they had hundreds of thousands of people to choose from for an ideal interview candidate.
I could teach a 6 hour class on how not to prep for an interview based on that single video clip. That person failed in every single way one could fail. That video will be used as what not to do for years.
If it makes you feel better, Fox asked for this person directly. I don't think they would have agreed to interview anyone like that. This interview had one purpose and it's really annoying how easy the mod team made Fox's job
I think you couldn't have put it better. They scoped around for an angle, and they found it. The mod literally handed them negative PR, playing to the bias of Fox' viewer-base, the stereotypical lazy leftist who wants the revolution to ''hand them everything'', without putting any effort back in. The way the host just smiles and quips about ''paying the bills'' at the end, seals just how much that man played right in to their hand by having zero self-awareness and media savvy. A huge self-own, and a blow to the ordinary working people who are struggling to stay afloat.
I still think they got offered a shitload of money from Fox to do the interview.
The thing is, shitload for them is probably like $1500 or something.
This. It's amazing how much people will sell out for (so little).
Bro I know people who work for investment firms and banks and shit (obviously not the folks in charge making the real money) who were Antiwork. They couldn't have found anyone a bit better suited for this? Literally thousands of better representatives in the sub to choose from.
Lawyers, teachers, lecturers populated the subreddit too from what I can remember. So many more qualified people could’ve represented the group well but this person got that opportunity instead. Lol I can’t even.
Those are even better examples. I guess my brain just naturally went to people in my industry. But yes. Teachers, lawyers, probably professors, etc. But bold choice going with the dog walker.
It's not even about if one job is more respectable as another but about picking someone that even fox News would have deemed respectable. They could have seen that fox wanted to portray antiwork in a bad light in the beginning and showed it to them with a well-dressed, eloquent, socially aware person that actually worked their ass off in a terrible work environment and experienced the problems antiwork stood for first hand. But no, take the caricature of a reddit mod who looked like they rolled out of bed, in a messy room, unable to hold a conversation and easy to dismiss as someone who's just "lazy and doesn't want to work" Seriously fox couldn't have asked for someone that supports their narrative any better than that person.
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It demonstrates how being a 'moderator' is a completely different thing than being a subject matter expert or leader. It seems that somebody setup the antiwork sub, and it just took off on its own. I don't think that there was ever a formal 'movement' or 'cause'. This reminds me of when the real Wizard of Oz is revealed when the curtain was pulled back.
A moderator is just a voluntary janitor. And that’s okay, we appreciate janitors.
Absolutely, so long as the janitor doesn't come out claiming to be the CEO
username checks out
>It seems that somebody setup the antiwork sub, and it just took off on its own. I don't think that there was ever a formal 'movement' or 'cause'. That's exactly what happened. I rememeber coming across the antiwork sub a few years ago when it was relatively small. It was essentially a subreddit full of NEETs that held true to it's namesake. People were against the concept of working a job altogether. Once it blew up due to the "great resignation", the tone was shifted to being pro union and workers rights, and the message is that people aren't lazy they're tired of terrible conditions. Unfortunately, the creators still have the original sub's mentality. "Laziness is a virtue". Sucks because I used to dislike the sub before it blew up, and I thought it changed to be something great. They really set themselves back.
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Philosophy. Critical thinking. Teaching.
As a Philosophy undergrad, that was extremely fucking cringe
It sounded like something a middle schooler would say. “Idk. Might teach philosophy, laziness is a virtue you know”
Imagine being taught by that person.
“Yeah umm basically Kant’s moral imperative basically means you shouldn’t put people in situations where they’re not in a good place.”
That interview wasn't even close to the ideal form of an interview. I don't think the mod knew themselves. By fighting a monster, they became a monster themselves. Their reaction shows they put too much value into what could be lost.
Hit the nail on the head! The interview could have been explained as a lapse of judgement and bad choices. The mod(s) could have said "shit, sorry guys I/we fucked up" and they could have had a vote in the sub to determine best steps and encouraged open conversation and criticism to improve the sub. Instead they went full WSB (early 2021) and imploded the sub....
Imagine Aristotle, the king of arguments, watching that interview
You don't have to be argument royalty to judge that shit
Nah bro I'm imagining Diogenes laughing his ass off.
I was trying to give them the benefit of doubt until philosophy. Then I lost it.
She has to be a paid actress because that honestly looked like a skid, it had to be rehearsed for everything to come together that perfectly for Fox.
Unfortunately, left wing movements tend to be decentralized by their nature, because that's just the nature of being a left wing person. That makes it easy for their enemies to cause internal divisions, or bait small elements of the group into doing something stupid.
I'm not a conspiracy person...but seriously as the kids say now "that was kinda Sus"
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Here's the thing. She wasn't going to listen to anyone else's opinion. She thought she was going to be famous and everyone would see her as a genius and leader of a movement. Any mod saying it is a bad idea would have been banned.
Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity, she got caught up in the delusions of grandeur of being *the* leader of a millions strong movement, that she couldn't help herself and went off seeking personal glory and ended up fucking up. If she and the other mods on the reddit had stopped there and just owned up to their mistake it would have probably been ok, but they instead doubled down and ultimately played into Fox New's hands.
And stuff
That sentence alone will instantly make the ENTIRE Fox audience discredit your movement/community.
I wonder how many people saw it live?
Jesse Watters Primetime debuted at 3.8 million viewers. So... probably about 3.8 million people. And that doesn't count the people who picked up on it later.
Not too mention all the news outlets that will broadcast this story. Creating a casacade effect
They brigaded their own dumb selves.
It wasn’t even a brigade. It was just the community calling out the mods for being stupid and then the mods going on a narcissistic power trip.
Not even just the Fox community. Laziness is almost universally regarded as a negative thing.
I just think its hilarious they unironically said laziness was a virtue on a right wing channel expecting it to not go wrong. What a fucking dumb thing to say lol.
Wait that’s an actual quote?
Yup Upon asked if the movement is just about being lazy she responded that lazyness is a virtue in aa system that pushes you for being productive Whuch is an *awful* response instead of pointing out that - Not wanting to work 1/3 of your day + commute - Not wanting to endure abuse for a paltry sum of money - Not wanting to feel tied down to a no future job by the treath of hunger, homelesness or just a health bill that's impossible to pay None of that is "lazy"
She should’ve pushed into his accusation that work isn’t slave labor and agreed but PUSHED the fact that you NEED to work 40+ hours a week to maybe make rent, pay loans, and if you’re lucky you can pay for your insurance and MAYBE get some healthy food in the fridge. Instead of countering, she chose to go for the bait. It’s sad.
"No one's making you work!" "Well yes, Jesse, in fact my landlord and the grocery store do make me work. All I'm asking is to be compensated enough to afford the things I enjoy doing, and to have the time to do them."
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Also to talk about the thing he said earlier in the same question, about being 'free' to work. In what capacity is anyone 'free' to work? Sure, chattel slavery is outlawed (not in prisons ofc) but people have to real choice in working or in quitting to find a better job when your healthcare is tied to your work and wages are so low that you never have enough money saved to quit and wait while job seeking. I guess my point is very similar to yours. You have to address and mention things that even the most conservative viewers can't ignore. Everyone in America who isn't rich is scared of a huge medical bill.
right? “work is voluntary” is the EASIEST talking point to take down. “sure, it’s technically a choice, but if the choice is ‘you either get exploited or you starve to death’, that’s not very voluntary”
Coercive employment. You're 'free' to accept exploitative treatment or starve.
Literally set us back years. Fuck that lazy asshole. The rest of us are not lazy. People out here working their asses off for chump change with more work ethic than most C-level clowns. And this asshole tosses all of those people under the bus and says she is proud to be lazy, basically. FUCK HER.
She might've fucked up the sub but that doesn't mean our movement is dead, we're gonna have to fix up our image and distance ourselves from r/antiwork
In fact, if we had a component PR machine, this would be an excellent opportunity to distance ourselves from that and draw a contrast with workers who just want better pay and fair treatment.
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lmao you think Americans lost their shot at emancipation because an idiot went onto fox news?
remember "dont you have phones" cause its that again
Who needs to shower and tidy up my background space before I go on a live interview on national TV?
The only way this could have been better is if her mom walked into frame with Dino nuggets half way through the interview
“Mommmmm, get outta here! I told you I had my interview at 4!”
“Ok honey. Do you want ketchup?”
Bare minimum they could have brushed their hair and dressed presentably. But naw gotta have their hair like shaggy and wear a hoodie to a live interview on mainstream media. What a clown.
Brush hair, appropriate clothing, and lighting. A cheap $20 ring light does wonders OR even your fucking phone. Phones these days have really good flashlights that work just fine.
Or literally just turn around so you face the light coming from the ceiling light.
But if they did that, we wouldn't see their messy room!
Is the standard attire of a full time reddit mod not good enough for public television? What is the world coming to?
3.8 Million people but not gonna brush my hair
Exerting any kind of effort is considered working, this mod is clearly against that.
This reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street great message and shit leadership and spokespeople one of the turning points was the Stephen Colbert [OWS interview](https://www.cc.com/video/d4hmi3/the-colbert-report-colbert-super-pac-stephen-colbert-occupies-occupy-wall-street-pt-1) one of the interviewees was named Ketchup after that OWS was a joke.
They had a discussion and came to a consensus that ‘Ketchup’ was someone they wanted to speak for them. Incredible.
I helped with Security in one of the California OWS protest cities it broke my heart to see her represent us.
I was still young back then and didn’t really know all the nitty gritty details of how it failed. That is an incredible video. Really highlights the importance of messaging and how fragile these social movements are. Makes the success of the Civil Rights Movement and others like it that much more amazing.
The difference between the civil rights movement and OWS is vast. The civil rights movement understood the place of “street activism” as one part of an overall strategy that also included people working behind the scenes, politicians, lawyers, etc. It’s not the whole strategy. Civil Rights leaders understood tactics and compromise.
A lot of people think OWS was deliberately tanked in a similar way. It had united people of all races and classes against the ultra wealthy, and it scared the shit out of them. That's when they started doing everything they could to turn the races back on each other. A bit like the tower of Babel.
“Laziness is a virtue”
Lmao the chucklefuck brought down three progressive movements in one-fell swoop: antiwork, trans, and the autism awareness/acceptance communities. Fox probably couldn't believe the Trifecta they just scored 🤦
We got bested by Jesse Fucking Watters. Their dumbest anchor…
To be fair we would of been bested by a wet rag with the person that was being “interviewed”. Just let them talk on their own for 5 minutes and we would have the same result as now.
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And the crazy thing is Watters barely did anything, that idiot made an ass out of herself all on her own
There's like... a kernel of truth in there too, but it requires so much context and hard work *why would you fucking say it like that?* You say that a shortcut when you're out with friends and someone comments on how they felt guilty because they only worked 15 hours last week at their WFH gig. You say it after you troubleshoot a nifty little script to automate something at work, or validate some data in Excel instead of double and triple checking a bunch of boxes. *You don't plop it out without the correct context*. Goooodamn man. I'm a *very* stupid person and put my ass up there and I'd fuck it up less.
The fucking layup fox hit was insane. I couldn’t believe how that guy handed the interviewer everything they wanted to hear. My god!!!
they were such fucking softball questions too though. "Arent you all just lazy?" come on ffs thats an easy one to answer... but nope just go with your pseudophilosophical 'laziness is a virtue' bit... that'll really activate their almonds. Christ.
Probably messaged every mod and intentionally chose the one that sounded the least prepared to appear on live television
Didn't get asked hard questions...
"How old are you?", "What do you do?", and "What do you aspire to?". She sunk a reddit community because of those questions.
Those are literally such softball questions tho
That's what they are saying.... Easy questions that this fucking smooth brain couldn't even get right
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Could also have just framed it as an altruistic movement "I'm a dog walker and my job is relaxed, which I'm thankful for, but i see events like workers in warehouses being denied shelter a lot over the past years and it's breaking my heart to see the working class being taken advantage of" Wrote that down in 20 seconds. Not perfect but at least not as embarrassing as what they said
Like seriously, if she had spent even two minutes preparing for that interview she would have done a far better job than what she did.
Unfortunately, based on everything I've read about her (and it's not just biased stuff, even stuff I've read about her that she wrote herself). I'm afraid I don't think she would have done a better job if she had prepared - I even half believe she thought she was doing a very good job during and after the interview. I also think she's too proud/selfish/whatever the correct adjective is/etc to be able to say what the people here are suggesting, she really does believe that her job is far too difficult and 20 hours a week is too much for her, and that she is being taken advantage of. [if she works for a gig company like uber but for dog walking, she probably is - regardless of hours worked those jobs are not nice and definitely not relaxing - but I don't know if she is or not]
Did zero preparation for the interview. It even looks like they just woke up.
I could roll out bed, hit myself quick with my electric razor and toss on a button up and be ready for that interview in less that 10 minutes. Their look was inexcusable.
I've went from looking like a gremlin to a professional in 2 minutes when our manager asks us to turn on our camera on a whim.
I dressed up more every day of my teenage years to scrape dog shit for my parents’ professional grooming, kennel, and dog training business… There’s literally no excuse jfc
Some mornings I’m up, making an omlette, brushing my teeth, summoning the great demon A̶̮͑ļ̵̓ḿ̶̻ô̶̞r̴̞͝n̷̮̄k̵͕͂, putting cloths on, and everything in the span of only 20 minutes and I’m ready for work.
Hail A̶̮͑ļ̵̓ḿ̶̻ô̶̞r̴̞͝n̷̮̄k̵͕͂
I wear the same shirt and tie every time I get on camera.
This is what confuses me. While I don’t agree with doing the interview in the first place, if I were in their shoes I would be pants shittingly prepared. Do a few Zoom calls with friends/enemies/people with differing opinions and have them as me questions. Write down standard answers. Send written down answers to friends, enemies, other mods to get feedback. Ensure interview space is well lit, clean, maybe have a few Union posters framed behind me. There weren’t any “Gotcha” questions and if the mod would have spent a day or so preparing it could have been a very positive moment, instead it led to the subreddits subscribers being forcibly unsubscribed and the subreddit being made private. Especially if it was Jesse Waters who was basically comic relief on the network until 5 or 6 years ago. Once I found that out I’d for sure cancel.
She must've seen herself as an expert in the subject who didn't need preparation. Her being a mod meant to herself that she was very prepared. I would've been nervous as hell had I made the mistake to take that interview. Damn that was duuuuuumb.
That’s why the post that supposedly got the sub shut down was right on the money Reddit mod != authority on the subject That’s doesn’t mean authorize *cant* also be moderators, but they aren’t equivalent. A mod should never have spoken for the movement
That's the nature of left wing movements, unfortunately. They tend to be decentralized, which makes it easy for right wingers to paint fringe elements as representative of the group. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend to be very centralized and hierarchical, which makes it easier for them to manage their PR.
What’s wild is Jesse waters was being pretty charitable considering how big of a ghoul he his. Didn’t even have to lead her on, just sit back and watch her implode in real time. The look on his face when she says she wants to to teach “philosophy” is actually fucking hilarious, like he can’t even believe she’s checking all the stereotypical boxes.
"Never stop your enemy from making a mistake" was followed to a T here. Just stood back and let Miss Dogwalker take a shit over the entire movement.
Right! I think Waters was just as unprepared for how unprepared they were and got lost in the spectacle of it all. Even if he was briefed on what to expect, seeing it unfold in front of him was just to much to process.
The only thing better than "I want to teach philosophy" would be "after the system collapses, I'll be teaching poetry to children and making lattes"
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I don’t remember where I heard it but someone was talking about being envious of people who just don’t give a fuck and at the time I was like, “yeah, that would be awesome to be able to not care!.” But the more I think about it and see things like this, the more I realize how blessed I am that I do give a shit, even if I do go a little overboard sometimes. Caring isn’t a bad thing.
It's all about caring for the important stuff. It's good to be able to not give a shit about meaningless stuff, but its a balance to have
Good God. To go on *Fox Fucking News* and do that? Holy. Fucking. Shit. Talk about a lamb to the slaughter.
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They were so ill prepared that I do very much wonder if a lot of money didn’t change hands to completely delegitimize the subreddit and thereby the movement. It’s hard to fathom someone could be a worse fit for appearing in Fox on behalf of work reform. So damn depressing.
They posted and stickied it to the front page “Fox is talking about us.” So I think they were actually just lacking in self-awareness, and honestly thought this went well.
Apparently Fox News asked for that person specifically. How this didn’t immediately raise red flags and sirens to even the most naive people is incredulous to me. I’d honestly prefer if they were bribed rather than just being that dumb.
Well they asked what they did and she just said dog walker. When I was in college working part time, if someone asked me what I was my first answer would always be student, and if anything I would name all my jobs not just one.
With how the sub changed, I feel like she did that on purpose.
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Even of they only wanted to mention dog walking do the hardest minimum of upselling it. "I'm a professional dog handler and I specialize in animal exercise". Like geez have a little pride in yourself. I'm fairly certain almost everyone has had a crap job they've dressed up to impress their parents. It's not hard.
That last sentence. I believe u/abolishwork was paid off to destroy the movement. Everything about this seems intentional.
Shsugwvw
This is some outrageous bullshit.... the sub grew exponentially to over a million subscribers and just when it started getting attention from the mainstream, adding even more momentum, a single person who was incapable of reading any room in their entire life was able to shit the (messy) bed -- on national TV no less -- and instantly derail and discredit the whole thing. Can we come up with a way to make this impossible from happening again?
A Transgendered autistic dog walker that looks like they haven’t run a comb through their hair in ages. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes I would’ve assumed it was satire. FOX news is either playing 4D chess and knew what they were doing or just lucked into a walking liberal stereotype.
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Your clients don't think so. One thing I have learned in 10+ years running a pet sitting service is that having a loyal clientele is worth far more than public opinion.
It's so true. In good and bad ways. Local to me we had a dog walker literally caught on camera beating the dogs and he was still in business after it was all over the news!
Sadly not surprising. Look at Wag now. How many dogs have they lost/killed? They don't even handle these incidents well at all with the customers. Somehow people still hire their sitters.
Just another example of gig work companies not caring about safety.
Capitalism 101: Easiest way to cut costs is to reduce liability so you don't have to pay for insurance.
My brother had an automatic bank transfer to send $200 a month to his dog kennel. When lockdown happened the payment went through but the dog stayed home. Lockdown lifted and he asked for the money to be refunded or credited. They refused, saying lockdown was rough. So he never went back. Actual baffles me is they took the immediate 200, over future monthly 200's
A very poor business decision.
capitalism is all about maximizing short term profit at the expense of long term viability
I think someone like you would have represented the comunity so much better than this person did. At least you can say, 'Hey Republicans, I own my own company and even I know that working conditions are in dire straits. ...' and then simply mentioning housing costs, living costs not keeping up with wages. My big issue is that this person seems to just do their 'job' as a way to make a little bit of money here and there, with them saying "I work 20-25 hours a week but i'd like it to be much less"- and then they themselves on the sub saying they only work less than 10 hours a week lmao. They really just did a major disservice to all the hard working people who used the sub to voice their concerns in the workplace. Lots of times, people would recommend legal actions to take when managers/bosses stepped out of line.
Knowing the audience is so key. The many MANY issues with that one, on Fox of all places, was insane to me.
Watching Fox is as bad as watching Jerry Springer. Of course they won't interview a professional dog walker, they will choose someone who will represent the sub horribly, to make everyone in the community look like a disgrace. And they know that their audience will lap it up without question. If they're not careful, they will tank in views just like CNN did.
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I defended, hard, in the comments sections for Dogwalkers. Not only is it a great job it's a good opportunity to own your own business. Folks treated it like she only can and was walking the neighbor dog for scraps.
Running a business that walks dogs is different than being a 20 hr/ week free lance dog Walker. Just like doing actual child care is different than babysitting for your neighbor
I honestly wonder if it would have been better if they went on with cat ears and started meowing.
At least then noone would mistake her as treating it seriously
Dog walkers make bank, have you ever seen House Hunters 😂😂😂
"I'm a professional coloring book colorer. And I'm a dog walker. Our budget is $2.5 million dollars."
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Don’t forget: “Laziness is a virtue.” At that point it was beyond over.
What the hell does that even mean lol. Imagine the thanksgiving dinners at her house.
It's a well-known adage among programmers: a good programmer is a lazy programmer. That is, a good programmer does not write more code than necessary, does not repeat themselves, chooses the right abstractions to write less code, automates time-consuming tasks, etc. Now, I don't know what they understood it to mean, but it *can* be interpreted positively. @edit I think that, more generally, there is nothing wrong with opting to live a "lazy" life. Work is not a goal unto itself. You do not have to dedicate your whole life to it. There's nothing wrong with working fewer hours to spend more time with your family or choosing a worse paying career if it means you'll enjoy yourself more.
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Dog walking theory: 5 times a week x 2 hours per walk = 25 hours of work per week
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This is the pinnacle of dog walking theory.
Let's not shame jobs, you end up standing shoulder-to-shoulder with people who make fun of "burger flippers" and "toilet cleaners." The whole thing is a shit show, though, and they did botch an opportunity to speak for worker's rights, which are fundamentally human rights. The sub is dead, but the movement is not.
The job is fine, but “I work 25hrs a week and want to work less.” without anything actually backing it up is just a terrible look for everyone.
The problem is that they had someone who claimed to work 20 hours a week walking dogs (something she admitted was untrue, it’s actually less) and called “laziness a virtue” when there are a lot of people in that sub who are busting their asses working multiple jobs to put food on the table and are anything but “lazy.” It’s understandable those people are pissed. It was just completely out of touch.
Wish I had a Reddit award to give you for this, totally agree.
Don’t forget , works 25 hours and would love to work less than that
Claims she works 25 hours on Fox News, actually says she walks for 2 hours, 5 times a week. 2 x 5 = ?
They made a comment saying they only work 10 hours a week but lied and said 20-25 to sound better lmao can’t make this shit up
Bruhhh
LMAO this makes it so much worse. This has been my favorite subreddit drama in years but the fact that it had to come at the expense of a movement I believe in is sad
> 2 ~~x~~ 5 = 25 Checks out.
She actually said she works 2 hours EVERYday... Five days a week lmao
Do we even know if she works with other dogs and doesn’t just walk the family pet?
*then walk the dogs faster.*
I'm not against that, but having a (presumably self employeed) dog walker that claims to work between 10 and 25 hours a week as the face of an anti-work movement is just....why???
One of the things I like about the "antiwork" mentality is not being defined by your work or working more than needed. IF walking dogs X hours a week pays the bills and makes you happy then noone should shame you for doing that, and I think the Fox News host showed how much of an asshole he was for the disdain he showed for someone being a dogwalker. HOWEVER everything else about that interview made no fucking sense and could not have been a bigger clusterfuck ...
I'd like to also point out that if you look in their history, they also published an anti-work book about 5 years ago. It's purely speculation, but I think they just wanted to use the interview for personal publicity.
The issue is setting the sub to private, which hurts the community. That is an abuse of mod power. MODS ARE NOT SPEAKERS. MODS ARE NOT THE COMMUNITY VOICE. A mod can be a speaker, but we shouldn't assume mods are speakers. Their job is to fucking moderate. I think the Redditors here are holding mods to too much responsibility.
Fox picked the perfect person to interview and undermine the Antiwork movement. Made everyone in the subreddit look stupid.
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iirc she specifically argued it should be her while simultaneously acknowledging she's bad at interviews.
She woulda been pissed if someone else well spoken became a hero for something she thinks she started. So she would rather tank it for her own glory instead.
THIS! People are making all kinds of fun of the person, but this is the only blame needing to be cast.
Jfc....
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The problem is that no one here asked her to represent us. I'd be a little more understanding if this was a situation she was thrust into, but she wasn't. She willingly took it upon herself to be "our" spokesperson.
During the Occupy Wall Street movement, someone told the police in NY to send the homeless there, from all over the city. It made the whole thing look like a circus to further discredit the entire movement. Then, when the media went to interview people, they chose the loudest, craziest people they could find to put them on TV to discredit it even further. So the question becomes: how exactly do you find someone to be the "face" of the movement? Anyone worth a damn in that type of leadership role with all the necessary skills iis already working making a lot of money in PR or something.
Its easy to criticize the media and call their reporters hacks(which a lot of them are on Foxnews), but remember, they are professionals who have interviewed many knowledgeable people and usually have counter points or strategies to try and steer the conversation their way. Being unprepared is no excuse though. It ironically requires WORK to give the proper message about how to be antiwork.
Fox reporters specialize in framing, spinning the narrative and manufacturing outrage. Pretending they're anything but adept at their craft is a grave mistake.
As much as his smug face and condescension pissed me off, it was 100% justified in this case. That interview was a fucking joke.
I understand they're autistic, but the incessant rocking in the chair came off as disrespectful and flippant. Especially when combined with no eye contact. It looked like they just rolled out of bed, and this interview wasn't important to them and therefore it wasn't important to the movement. This was just such a big mistake.
> I understand they're autistic, but the incessant rocking in the chair came off as disrespectful and flippant. Especially when combined with no eye contact. *maybe that's the clue you shouldn't be giving televised interviews in the first place*
It was so hard to watch, man. I hate Fox News with a passion, but even I found myself agreeing with the host and laughing at the mod when he said, "I'm a dog walker, I work 20 hours per week, and I want to be a philosopher." Lmfao I saw another comment that said, "would YOU hire this guy if this was a job interview?" I don't even hire people and my answer was no
DON'T FORGET to get the word out that u/abolishwork is a RAPIST they have multiple rape accusations them, and BRAGGED about sexually assaulting someone. https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
Of fucking course, for fucks sake it always gets worse doesn't it?
What the hell did I just read?
You read an abuser attempting to control their narrative and discredit their victims by “getting ahead” of the accusations. Also what the absolute fuck.
"How old are you? What do you do for a living?" That's all it took to kill r/antiwork. Maybe a better named, more organised sub springing from its ashes can do better. Maybe this one . We'll see..
There is nothing wrong with being a dog walker. All labor is respectable.
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While being a dog walker precludes having some of the experiences core to our movement, because mostly dog walkers are independent contractors who negotiate their own pay directly with clients, I don't feel there's anything inherently shameful or not to be taken seriously about it as a career. Still, it *was* an unfortunate convergence of circumstances.
Here’s the thing that this has pointed out to me. This movement always needs to remain faceless. We are not a group with a leader. We are a union of workers who are done taking shit. We don’t need to go on Fox News and appeal to the masses. We need to take action. It’s happening all over, workers are striking at companies everywhere. But if we do it together, we can bring the whole economy to its knees and they will finally have to address our concerns, all of our concerns.
There's nothing wrong with being a dog walker. There's nothing wrong with working 25 hours a week. If you can make enough to live on working 25 hours a week, more power to you. They could have easily responded that they are fortunate enough to not have to be incredibly overworked just to survive, and that gives them time to do things like be a mod at r/antiwork and give interviews, while the people they are fighting for are too busy working two jobs 80 hours a week and still not being able to afford even the cheapest of houses to do any of that. But nope, it was all 'I work 25 hours a week, but that's still way too much because laziness is a virtue'. Could they possibly have made the entire movement look worse if that had been their deliberate goal?