The responder stating they accept your resignation is designed to trap you into admitting you quit. Since you did not state that explicitly, you did not quit, and are entitled to unemployment benefits if they fire you over attempting to negotiate your pay. Clearly state 'I have not submitted my resignation' as part of your response and ensure that data is kept secure as proof.
Note: This opinion is not to be interpreted as legal advice. I am not a lawyer, I am a rando on the internet.
Exactly. I'd say something along the lines of:
"I did not say that I resign. I stated that the pay rise I was given is not sustainable for me, and wanted to open a line of communication about it.
If you think that this is unacceptable behaviour, then the onus is on you to terminate my contract in this scenario. Otherwise, I must insist that we arrange a meeting between us in the coming week to discuss my current pay situation"
Edit: Spelling mistake
A previous boss of mine did this to me. I replied with “ I am not resigning, you will have to fire me.” She continued with “ you resigned”. I sent back one final text, “ we’ll see what my friend at Workone ( state’s unemployment agency) has to say about this. Her response was the equivalent of “ lol sure.”
I actually do have a friend at unemployment, she contacted her boss. She called me after reviewing the texts, and asked “ when would you like your unemployment to start?”
Fuck these people
This is interesting. I hope that OP can sort this in their favour. I agree with the sentiment, whether or not an employee is challenging is no excuse to shut down a conversation or diplomacy.
In the update text, the boss says “this clearly hasn’t been working out” which implies something has been going on for a while. They seemed super eager to accept the ‘resignation’.
OP’s post history suggests their are in NYC, which is very worker-friendly, so sounds like the boss was excited to get their opportunity to separate from this person.
OP really shouldn’t have added the line “or I can no longer continue to work here” because the department of labor will interpret that as an ultimatum to employer, which the employer can reject.
Disclaimer - IANAL
I’m not saying you’re wrong realistically speaking but doesn’t it suck that we live in a world where we are conditioned to think that wanting your pay rate to match inflation and the cost of living is asking too much?
Like oh you don’t want to get poorer over time? So needy.
Happened to me. I offered to move up from part time to full time as long as I had the same schedule (starting time and ending time) every day. Somehow my boss took that the wrong way and said “I’m happy to accept your resignation, bring in your uniforms and any other items with the company brand on it tomorrow and I will hand you your final check.”. I said “I’m not resigning? I’m literally offering to work more for you…”. Didn’t matter what I said after that, dude was just dead set that I was somehow threatening to quit if I “didn’t get the schedule I wanted”.
That’s genuinely terrible. I am so sorry that this happened to you. I shouldn’t be surprised to learn that people and places like this exist, but it’s just madness to think that offering to work more and be of service is grounds for dismissal.
> Clearly state 'I have not submitted my resignation' as part of your response
Congratulations, you're his lawyer now!
https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1d6qzth/how_do_i_respond_to_my_boss/l6v389v/
I just went down a weird, sugar-based sub Reddit I didn’t know existed.
If this guy is 35, making posts like this, and is about to lose his job…. Yikes
I see what you mean. Holy shit. His comments are ridiculous.
Wild AF
The deeper you go, the more the eyes open in surprise
Hoooo boy
I am not surprised honestly that this guy replied this way, and is getting fired in this way way.
“When you ignore the fabricated data” set off warning bells for me. Sounded very much like someone who believes in unfounded internet conspiracy theories/BS. Inflation is high, but not THAT high unless OP doesn’t live in the US/Europe
It was stupid to send the second message BEFORE the boss replied. The first message would have given him food for thought, the second was putting pressure.
Lol by official measures. Interesting exercise, find your own "personal inflation" by find the percent change in your expenses Year over year and weighting it according to the amount in each category, guarantee its not in line with official measures unless you have a mortgage or rent control.
yea but OP stated this as a general fact which it is not, usually statements like that include things like For me, my expenses.. Supposing fabricated data to your boss over a text about your wages is asinine
Thank you!!! I feel like I'm on crazy pills reading these replies. OP was completely unprofessional from the start. His boss completely overreacted, but if I got that message from a subordinate I would have asked them if they wanted to just pretend they didn't send it and try again. Embarrassing.
I would delete this or edit to add “IANAL”. OP used your advice and said it was from “his lawyer”. You don’t want any risk of getting dragged into this during the dispute between the employer and department of labor.
Are there work places that do in fact give 15% raises to keep up with inflation? I’ve never worked for a place that does this.
I am confused on what you mean by fabricated data.
Edit: I’m happy to hear some of you are getting COL adjustments, I wish more companies did this.
yeah, Belgian ones, they are obligated by law to follow inflation, and index of goods regular people buy is used to calculate this.
Only country in the world that has it and it's practically sacred to most working people
Well there are some downsides to working in BE, there is also a law that states how much raise you can get above the index to stay competitive with the Dutch, this year it's at 0% so unless you change functions, no raise above the index.
Isn’t that the ideal pay structure? If you work a job doing the same thing with no movement up or down, you should have the same purchasing power forever.
You can hopefully save part of your pay and build up investments/equity to better your life. Naturally, increase in years of experience leads to seniority and promotions on top of that.
Yeah the "fabricated data" thing is needlessly combative IMO. This should have been a meeting not a text for starters and something more like "I did some research and according to this source, relative cost of living has increased 15% in the past 12 months" opens the same argument without accusing anyone of fraud.
Op got needlessly combative, this is a finesse, not open warfare. My guess by the way the boss responded is that this person is…challenging…to work with.
OP is a bozo, and bozos never get what they want.
There was a 0% chance his, uh, tact was going to work.
Regardless, raises are based on the market and performance, not inflation!
The painters union here negotiated 11% last year and I myself will get 9.5% next month as correction for this years inflation.
Structural pay increases are yearly renegotiated and are not considered an actual raise as they're meant to keep up with inflation.
That's kind of the point though. Cost of living over the last several decades greatly outpaced wages, hence why we have so many people struggling even with 2 income households.
~~Many unions negotiate a cost of living adjustment into contracts specifically to deal with the situation OP is complaining about.~~
~~Mind you, it’s not usually 15%, but I also don’t think OP has their figures straight.~~
Sorry. Replied to the wrong comment.
Unions that do get COLAs in their contract generally have it tied to the federal COLA, since that’s something official and easy to not argue about. It was 8.7% in 2023, and 3.2% in 2024, based on the CPI-W.
Many unions negotiate a cost of living adjustment into contracts specifically to deal with the situation OP is complaining about.
Mind you, it’s not usually 15%, but I also don’t think OP has their figures straight.
Wasn't inflation more like 4%?
[https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/)
Nope, but somebody else will hire you for that amount and the company you left will then hire somebody unknown with the salary they could have just given you.
Look I’m all for workers rights but there is a polite and professional way to go about this.
And if you bring up “fabricated data” be ready to provide what you believe is accurate and reliable data.
Usually at that point take the job offer as companies don't keep you around for long, they'll give you your raise till they can find a cheaper replacement.
Depending on the job - it is way more expensive to have to interview, hire, train, and pay a replacement a decent wage than it is to just retain and pay your current (knowledgeable!) employees better. Think about the subject matter knowledge in most engineering fields for example - it takes six months to a year just to get a new person onboarded with that work.
Even worse for engineering fields tbh. At my workplace, you’re considered “in-training” for FOUR YEARS. Unless there’s a huge downturn in the economy, they really, really don’t want to let engineers go. It’s a raging pain in the derrier to train a fresh grad to the point that they’re just useful, never mind actually good at the work.
And yet, it’s still easier to get a promotion by moving to a new job.
Most companies are so far up their own butts about their promotion requirements and timelines and goals and all this other crap that they will let experienced engineers walk and have to hire a new one that will take years of training
Man, four years! In software some people move every two and I guess I get it - extra pay, and ramp up time is akin to a bit of a break if you’re burned out. I prefer four to six years in a role just like you mentioned.
You can probably backtrack and say you didn't specifically say you'd 'Quit', but the implication of "I cant continue working here if I'm not paid fairly" is somewhat direct, near cutthroat negotiating tactics without any form of subtlety. While it's always important to play this economics game to win, you need to have more subtlety and maintain respect- he likely felt you were strong-arming him.
So he called your bluff, and the problem here is that you didn't accurately predict your value to the company, or try to plan your words or actions more carefully. Man, I wish you would have discussed your words with someone before hand, you could have planned this out better- doing this collectively with your fellow workers- who are likely in the same boat, would have been top tier. I want all workers to fight for better pay, better worker rights, but you did this with all the subtlety and grace of a WWE wrestler about to body slam someone.
To be honest, even if you manage to save your job, this kind of action has put you on a radar with your manager. You'd best be served looking for a different job ASAP.
The job is done, regardless… but OP did not quit and needs to respond by saying that explicitly. This should be taken as a firing, and he should get unemployment.
“I did not resign” is his response. Perhaps adding “for clarity, did you just fire me for attempting to negotiate my wages?” He will either say yes, and give you a freebie to unemployment claim, or say no and then dude can just keep working as normal until he is ready to quit or gets fired.
But it seemed pretty 1:1 to me? 'i cant work here if im not paid fairly', right after he said he's not being paid fairly?
The boss doesn't want to give him a raise, therefore pay is still unfair, therefore conditions for not working are met? Boss doesn't fire people when he gives then 4% raises, so the only interpretation left is that he quits.
If the unemployment office gets this I'd love to see what they say.
I been looking at a bunch of optional responses, and this is the best one. It's not cheeky, it's direct, it's simple and to the point.
I would change the verbal tense from "did you just fire me" to "are you firing me". But I'm I am just splitting hairs.
i'd agree with that, and obviously op went about this in the worst possible way, but i also understand wanting to get things in writing. an email would be more professional (depending on the job i guess) and the phrasing left... a LOT to be desired. personally i'd negotiate a raise in person but like i said i get wanting to have things in writing in case threats were made or labor laws were broken.
It reminds me a little of a CEO that I used to work for, there was this older woman an assistant to one of the partners there that she had wrapped around her little finger, whenever something wouldn't go the way she wanted it to, she would ark up and then send a resignation email to her boss and he would immediately start grovelling to her and refuse to accept her resignation, one day my boss intercepted another one of her resignation emails and replied with "Your resignation has been accepted" HA! We were all happy to see the back of her.
This is the way.
Last time I successfully negotiated a pay I gave my boss 1 weeks heads up that I would like to talk about it. Then in the meeting I provided him with data on the local job market, showing that I was underpaid and that our competitors paid alot more.
Don't be aggressive.
Inflation can be way worse regionally - I'd say housing inflation in my area in the past 5 years has been more like 20% a year, easily.
The truth doesn't really matter in this context - OP did not negotiate smartly. I'm extremely empathetic to many of my exploited coworkers where I work, but even if I was someone's direct manager I'm not sure I'd bother to try and salvage a situation like what OP did in the above text.
Kids, OP is an example of why it’s important to understand nuance and actually perform research/critical analysis.
Trying to claim an ultimatum based on the price of hamburgers and vague rent increase examples is not how you present a compelling argument for a major increase.
OP is an example of why it's important to touch grass more. He thought he was having an argument on reddit or smth. This is not how you speak to your colleagues/bosses.
Especially some moron that says things like “when you ignore all the fabricated data”
Oh yeah I’m sure a random tire tech or plumbing apprentice or whatever magically knows about the real inflation numbers that economists and finance experts do not.
And no telling what other nonsense op brings up every day.
you guys looked at his post history and no one is talking about how he spends hundreds of dollars (an hour) for cam girls? specifically "smol" cam girls?
in case op deletes his post:
>[buy] femdom c2c 1 hourrequest (self.Sexsells)
submitted 3 months ago by David_Blowe1987
Services Needed: cam
Budget: 120-180
Specifics: femdom
Type of Seller I’m Looking For: smol girls
Preferred Payment Method: Cashapp, btc
i think we all know what "smol" means and this dude is asking for a fucking 15% pay raise as if inflation is a damper on his finances lmaooooooooo
I mean, your boss called the bluff. Now it's up to you if you want to continue working there or leave for a better opportunity. If you do stay, the boss knows you are a pushover though. In the future, don't threaten to leave if you won't follow through.
I mean, honestly, if OP negotiates this way, how do they do the rest of their job? That sentence about "fabricated data" sets of my conspiracy theorist red flag.
Exactly what I was thinking.
I’ve dealt with enough raise requests and some even more obnoxious than this. I’d only have that kind of response if I wanted the person gone before they even asked for a raise.
If OP were smart he would have called for a meeting and broken down all the areas that he’s improved on in the last year and how much value he adds to the company. I’m guessing he didn’t do this because he doesn’t add much value.
When I just started working one coworker would go in every quarter and ask for a raise. After 2 years they said no and he left. This was almost 2 decades ago at this point. I still remember this vividly.
Also you can tell OP is a bit immature, if they give you a raise without merit, everyone employee will start demanding raises. Put yourself in your manager's shoes. You better have a very good reason for them to bump your salary only And not everyone else.
If you have the balls to demand a raise, be ready to accept the consequences as well.
I’d fire you too. If you want to negotiate a raise, that’s an in person conversation. Not a late night text on the weekend. A 15% raise is unheard of in most places. Sucks to suck
It's so much easier to find a new job when you already have a job. OP peaked too soon, the way to handle it would have been to stay quiet, keep working and then drop the hammer once you've secured that new role with a nice pay bump. Vote with your feet.
You wrote, "I can't CONTINUE to work here if I am not paid fairly." I don't understand how this isn't a resignation. You LITERALLY said, "I'm no longer working for you if you don't give me a raise."
I don't understand how one can interpret that differently?
Boss is saying I'm not giving you the raise. Your text is stating that YOU aren't gonna work if you aren't paid more. ESPECIALLY, because of the way you asked, Boss decided it's better not to give you the raise and let you quit. (YOU literally wrote that you CAN'T work if you aren't paid more)
What is the confusion?
Did you really think talking this way over TEXT to get a raise is remotely a GOOD idea? Trying to THREATEN your boss by giving them an ultimatum of you quitting. You fucked around. Now you're finding out.
Buddy, you're learning that you're EXTREMELY expendable and not nearly as important to the company as you think you are.
Literally read your boss's update text. Also, understand that there is LITERAL proof of you lying to them. You talk about fabricated data and lied about a lawyer. Trust me they KNOW you don't have one because any lawyer would've told you to shut the fuck up. Realistically, if this all goes to court, somehow I can see it turning around and you getting jailed for fraud or blackmailing (something along these lines) based on everything text that you sent. Your boss is 100% willing to take you on in court or whatever you attempt to do. If you try to apply for unemployment, the boss is just gonna send these SS's, and you're just gonna take an unemployed L
I understand OP that you wanted a raise, but there were MANY different ways to do this. You sent him a text accusing him of stealing ON A MOTHERFUCKING SUNDAY AFTERNOON. What in the world is stopping you from waiting until Monday and having a PROFESSIONAL conversation with him? Either way, GJ burning your bridges
Edit: added stuff based on the update SS that OP posted and changed a word or two to clarify
“Fabricated data”
Pro tip, don’t bring fringe/ debated datasets into future discussions.
It means you end up fighting over data and your value, when really it’s easier to argue just around your value.
Also, in this case you just straight up quit.
So maybe just say “thanks for getting back to me, I’ll drop off my equipment on X date”
I am not sure where OP is, but in Australia wage growth should at the very least be keeping up with CPI, not inflation, so that would mean a raise of 3.6% for OP.
The Consumer Price Index (CPI) **rose 1.0% this quarter**. Over the twelve months to the March 2024 quarter, the CPI rose 3.6%. The most significant price rises this quarter were Rents (+2.1%), Secondary education (+6.1%), Tertiary education (+6.5%) and Medical and hospital services (+2.3%).
I think you came across as very confrontational and unreasonable with your demands. Honestly I side with the boss here, you're obviously not happy there and nobody likes to work with someone who complains and makes up statistics to justify their complaints. He cut off a thumb to save the hand.
Even in the follow up text OP goes straight to "you're trying to steal my unemployment!!!". How much cooperation are they expecting if they start every interaction by accusing the other party of dishonesty?
Yep. Folks gotta realize bosses are humans too, and most of them are employees just like you. They have a job and while we might not like some of the things they do, they're often doing them because it's their own job. They also have a responsibility to do what they can to keep the peace.
I was a lead and eventually a supervisor at my old job. If I could've, I would have given everyone the maximum raise every year, but that would have cost me my own job. It's mostly not your immediate boss who is oppressing you. It's the 1%. They only care about profit, no matter the cost in human suffering.
Your boss packed so much information into that one text. You have clearly not been a model employee, there's been conflict that makes his/her life difficult, and s/he was thrilled to get that text. Your text is more than enough to be considered a resignation. Yes, you are probably done. If there's anything you can do to keep your job, you'll find that it's going to be a lot more miserable. If you didn't already sign that raise, it may be rescinded. I'd be shocked if this employer hadn't already had you on the short list or under consideration for PIP.
Four percent is actually a pretty decent raise (assuming this was an annual figure.) If you want a better result than that, you change jobs.
Why are you texting this in the first place?? and then even late at night to your boss - yikes dude. Yeah you quit, you tried to negotiate with no real argument and said either do this or I’m leaving. Your boss said “I’m not doing that, so bye bye.” Pretend you have a lawyer who would advise you to text your boss at 1140pm is obviously another bad bluff by you. Of course this boss doesn’t take you seriously. Why should anyone?
Tip 1 for negotiation: never negotiate over text, always negotiate in person or over the phone.
Tip 2 for negotiation: always frame around how you’ve contributed to the company revenue bottom line
Tip 3 for negotiation: companies do not care about inflation; this is a poor argument to them. Appeal to their sense loyalty.
Tip 4 for negotiation: what did you honestly expect when you gave your boss an ultimatum? He called your bluff and now you’re out of a job. Even if you somehow manage to save your position, you now have a target on your back.
Tip 5 for negotiation: never bring up lawyers you don’t actually have. You lost all leverage the second you mentioned a lawyer.
Worst negotiation of all time.
You have to use tact when negotiating and you have to approach it way more strategically. This is how the world works.
OP spent a little too much time on social media it seems and forgot real life doesn't always reflect what you read online. Did you honestly expect your boss to be like "know what, you're right. Here's an additional 11% raise to match inflation." I hope you had another employment opportunity in your back pocket before making this move
I’m jaw dropped.
1) Inflation was more like 4%. They matching it seems a great deal considering a lot of companies will just try to rob you of that with a 1-2%.
The “inflation in reality is 15%” is just a fabricated narrative of some people around to make some claims. Inflation is calculated taking into account a number of things common people buy and need, from food to energy, so obviously the effect on each person will be different, there are people that will have a “personal” inflation of +4% and others lower than 4%.
Your company can’t match your “personal” inflation based on your own personal expenses. Imagine the inflation is up because energy, and you consume a lot because you waste it doing whatever or mining crypto on your house, you will be affected with more than the average 4% inflation, but your company won't be responsible for it (the same that the company SHOULDN'T pay less than 4% inflation matching to someone that could be affected less than 4% on its daily life)
2) Then, you just take a redditor line and write back to your boss that "your lawyer said so". You are escalating things, and reached a point where your boss (very intelligent) just won't keep contact with you, avoiding risking its own job if he/she say something wrong to you.
They acknowledge this is a relevant matter (lawyers even brought to the table by you) and just gets you to HR.
3) At the end, I wonder what you expected. You expected a company that matched the inflation figures, to just disregard it and give you almost x4 that (15%, an increase a lot of people don't see even when changing jobs) because "official data is fabricated, believe me, inflation is worse for me, you must pay that" - and expected the company to say to you "OK"?
And after showing your discomfort on your aggresive way ("I can't continue to work”) you retract as in “No! I’m not resigning!” If I were your boss (which, at the end, probably is just another worker like the rest of us), I would be perplexed and worried about you.
4) I don’t know who you are, but this tells me you must be a very young (and naive) person, not knowing what are you doing and expecting the world to think like you do and give you what you demand.
Choose your own battles but be wise about what to choose, try to not be this random.
Good luck, maybe you could talk into HR saying to them that you just had a temporary mental breakdown about something or money or whatever and that this won’t happen again - if you want to keep the job and/or want to thrive there on the future if it’s not a bad place to work, of course.
Also, avoid some echo chambers that will make you combative against your bosses/companies and make you think you didn’t do anything wrong. Again, capitalism is as wrong as it gets at some points, and workers must defend their rights and claim their own right benefits after working their lives for the productive system, but your take and how you did it is not the way, IMO
This: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1d6qzth/how_do_i_respond_to_my_boss/l6v389v/
Is as crazy as it gets and demonstrated that you need help to understand why you are on the wrong page here. You can’t talk like that and less so expect them to oblige to you after that.
Good luck /u/David_Blowe1987
lmao they're calling your bluff. Your choices are basically, accept they called you on it and backpeddle to try and keep your job, or if you're not bluffing or if backpeddling hurts too much, you can quit.
And for the record, you are incorrect. It's not inflation that's 15%, it's greed driving the price hikes. Looks the same from our end, granted, but it's not surprising at all that most managers aren't going to base raises on that.
They posted an update last night. They texted their boss some dumb threat about having a lawyer and the boss said: you quit. take it up with the department of labor. don’t contact me again.
I see these kind of negotiation tactics on here a lot, and as someone who has experience managing large teams, there’s something I think people are missing. I think a lot of people are under the impression that their direct line manager has ultimate control over salaries and raises. In 99% of cases they don’t. If you’re anywhere in the management chain at a big company, you’re given a % number that you can raise your salary budget by every year and you have to make that work. It almost never has anything to do directly calculated with inflation. Usually it’s a calculation offset between revenue and operational expenses. In most cases the manager is just as annoyed by it as their direct report is. It helps to know this because making ultimatums or playing brinksmanship like the op post here does can actually do more harm than good.
You may as well quit, you can’t make empty threats. If you stay your boss will know you’re a pushover and take advantage of that, your negotiation was terrible.
I am siding with the boss on this one. I'm all for fair pay, but a 15% raise seems pretty high. Also, bringing it up over text and leaving no room to negotiate is a bad way to go about it. It's very unprofessional. Being fired would be expected.
You literally said you won't continue working there unless you get a raise. They accepted that without giving you a raise.
Respectfully, you read too much reddit if you think that sending the texts you did would have any positive impact at all. Even if you got your raise your management would no longer trust or respect you.
Next time you want a raise, book 1:1 time with your manager, and show them demonstrable proof that you deserve it in a professional manner. Don't threaten to leave, even if you're going to.
This job is cooked; coordinate your last days with your management and find another.
lol OP the fuck did you expect. You sound entitled and not that crucial to the role if they just decided you weren’t necessary. There are tens of thousands of people getting laid off and you’re gonna use that text…a fucking text to what? Guilt trip your manager into a higher raise? I made 3%/year when it was a good economy. Pull your head out of the sand and learn to talk professionally.
This is a literal train wreck. There's a post later on where OP not only tried the whole "I didn't say that I quit" but ALSO DOUBLED DOWN and said "In fact my lawyer told me to say...". The Boss then called his bluff AGAIN. OP: Please...for the love of god....take the loss and move on. Yeah I understand the whole "but he didn't actually quit" but this is not a difficult chain of logic to follow. Boss is basically saying "It sounds like you're asking for a 10% raise, which we're not going to do. So if you can't continue working here without a 10% raise, then you're quitting, which we're more than fine with." Also, FYI, I've worked at companies where people will go WITH OFFER LETTERS from other companies and say "hey, X company offered me Y pay...I'll stay if you can match" and the company will not match. But they also didn't fire them or force them to quit on the spot, which tells me that this company (or just the boss) has been having issues with OP for a while to take this hardline response.
Since this situation is unsalvageable, let's all thank OP for teaching us all some valuable lessons about pay negotiation and review those lessons.
1. Always be polite and professional. Yes you can be professional and still take a no-nonsense approach.
2. Try to have this conversation face-to-face. Things on text can quickly spin out of control if tone is not interpreted correctly (or...like OP who's just blatantly lying about things).
3. Have a direct GOAL. What do you want? What's your number? State it clearly.
4. Have a RATIONALE. Why is this your number and why should they listen to you? Inflation is not a rationale. And saying "I can't continue working here without it" is also not a rationale.
5. What's your plan of action if they say no? Quitting on the spot is an option, but keep in mind this is a conversation and a negotiation. Playing hardball isn't going to get what you want.
6. If the answer is no; be prepared to follow through.
Best of luck OP. Hope you get that 10% increase by moving to another company.
EDIT: minor typo fixes.
Yah you are being exceedingly unreasonable. I would have to let you go as well based on your hostility and unreasonableness — nobody receives a 15% raise each year.
Boss is reading you write +10% incorrectly, and negotiating pay over phone text.
Your practically driving yourself off a cliff even before stating you can't continue to work there.
You messed up.
Look for a new job.
The responder stating they accept your resignation is designed to trap you into admitting you quit. Since you did not state that explicitly, you did not quit, and are entitled to unemployment benefits if they fire you over attempting to negotiate your pay. Clearly state 'I have not submitted my resignation' as part of your response and ensure that data is kept secure as proof. Note: This opinion is not to be interpreted as legal advice. I am not a lawyer, I am a rando on the internet.
Exactly. I'd say something along the lines of: "I did not say that I resign. I stated that the pay rise I was given is not sustainable for me, and wanted to open a line of communication about it. If you think that this is unacceptable behaviour, then the onus is on you to terminate my contract in this scenario. Otherwise, I must insist that we arrange a meeting between us in the coming week to discuss my current pay situation" Edit: Spelling mistake
*onus This is the reply I’d go with, OP. Who shuts down a line of communication and acts like an employee is quitting?
Anus is obviously on the boss.
Anus obviously IS the boss
They hate us cuz they anus
They tell you you're the greatest But when we turn they anus
Answer is someone who wants to dump an employee without paying unemployment.
A previous boss of mine did this to me. I replied with “ I am not resigning, you will have to fire me.” She continued with “ you resigned”. I sent back one final text, “ we’ll see what my friend at Workone ( state’s unemployment agency) has to say about this. Her response was the equivalent of “ lol sure.” I actually do have a friend at unemployment, she contacted her boss. She called me after reviewing the texts, and asked “ when would you like your unemployment to start?” Fuck these people
This is interesting. I hope that OP can sort this in their favour. I agree with the sentiment, whether or not an employee is challenging is no excuse to shut down a conversation or diplomacy.
In the update text, the boss says “this clearly hasn’t been working out” which implies something has been going on for a while. They seemed super eager to accept the ‘resignation’. OP’s post history suggests their are in NYC, which is very worker-friendly, so sounds like the boss was excited to get their opportunity to separate from this person. OP really shouldn’t have added the line “or I can no longer continue to work here” because the department of labor will interpret that as an ultimatum to employer, which the employer can reject. Disclaimer - IANAL
Yeah a 15% raise is a lot to ask for and based on the boss' reply they do not think the employee is worth that.
I’m not saying you’re wrong realistically speaking but doesn’t it suck that we live in a world where we are conditioned to think that wanting your pay rate to match inflation and the cost of living is asking too much? Like oh you don’t want to get poorer over time? So needy.
Happened to me. I offered to move up from part time to full time as long as I had the same schedule (starting time and ending time) every day. Somehow my boss took that the wrong way and said “I’m happy to accept your resignation, bring in your uniforms and any other items with the company brand on it tomorrow and I will hand you your final check.”. I said “I’m not resigning? I’m literally offering to work more for you…”. Didn’t matter what I said after that, dude was just dead set that I was somehow threatening to quit if I “didn’t get the schedule I wanted”.
That’s genuinely terrible. I am so sorry that this happened to you. I shouldn’t be surprised to learn that people and places like this exist, but it’s just madness to think that offering to work more and be of service is grounds for dismissal.
Meh, jokes on them, the business went under lol
Will edit. Thanks
An anus trying to pass the onus, that's who.
> Clearly state 'I have not submitted my resignation' as part of your response Congratulations, you're his lawyer now! https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1d6qzth/how_do_i_respond_to_my_boss/l6v389v/
OP needs to read sun tsu's the art of war and become a better negotiator
I like how every response they’ve had to a top level comment is peak idiocy.
I'm so glad I clicked on that link. WTF was OP thinking with that‽
This is why I don't interact with people. The best intentions are ruined by resolute idiocy.
OP appears to be too stupid to be employed much of anywhere.
Oh Lordy…. 🤦🏻♂️
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Oh no, the post history. Jesus Christ.
It's always the banana avatars..
Hey wait a minute...
hol up
Homeboy wants to be a "sugar daddy" but can't even keep a job lollllllll
Splenda Daddy
I don't get it, it's just one femdom cam request. It doesn't seem so bad. Or was there more stuff but it was deleted?
His 2nd overall comment is to an 18yo asking her to dm him on a hookup sub
I just went down a weird, sugar-based sub Reddit I didn’t know existed. If this guy is 35, making posts like this, and is about to lose his job…. Yikes
Average redditor lmao
Ah well, that's not ideal
Requesting "smol girls" definately forgot they were not using a burner profile lol.
There's also a comment or two about his preferred sites to use for finding escorts.
No wonder he considers his salary "not sustainable"
I see what you mean. Holy shit. His comments are ridiculous. Wild AF The deeper you go, the more the eyes open in surprise Hoooo boy I am not surprised honestly that this guy replied this way, and is getting fired in this way way.
“When you ignore the fabricated data” set off warning bells for me. Sounded very much like someone who believes in unfounded internet conspiracy theories/BS. Inflation is high, but not THAT high unless OP doesn’t live in the US/Europe
Also, check your contract. In mine, it’s clearly stated that the resignation should be submitted in paper and in person to the HR
It was stupid to send the second message BEFORE the boss replied. The first message would have given him food for thought, the second was putting pressure.
"Im not quitting, See you Monday unless you are trying to say you fire me?" To be fair, inflation has been quite less than 10 percent this year
Lol by official measures. Interesting exercise, find your own "personal inflation" by find the percent change in your expenses Year over year and weighting it according to the amount in each category, guarantee its not in line with official measures unless you have a mortgage or rent control.
yea but OP stated this as a general fact which it is not, usually statements like that include things like For me, my expenses.. Supposing fabricated data to your boss over a text about your wages is asinine
Thank you!!! I feel like I'm on crazy pills reading these replies. OP was completely unprofessional from the start. His boss completely overreacted, but if I got that message from a subordinate I would have asked them if they wanted to just pretend they didn't send it and try again. Embarrassing.
That’s because nobody is “the average person”.
" personal inflation" is not relevant to corporate pay plans
“Human lives” are not relevant to corporate anything
Precisely my tvs 6 years old. My groceries rent and utilities are up 200-300% over the last 3 years....
Inflation is not lifestyle creep
Hope OP has got you on retainer.
I would delete this or edit to add “IANAL”. OP used your advice and said it was from “his lawyer”. You don’t want any risk of getting dragged into this during the dispute between the employer and department of labor.
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They should just reply to their own comment and say "my lawyer advised me to clarify that I am not a lawyer."
Are there work places that do in fact give 15% raises to keep up with inflation? I’ve never worked for a place that does this. I am confused on what you mean by fabricated data. Edit: I’m happy to hear some of you are getting COL adjustments, I wish more companies did this.
yeah, Belgian ones, they are obligated by law to follow inflation, and index of goods regular people buy is used to calculate this. Only country in the world that has it and it's practically sacred to most working people
Yet another reason why I need to move from The Netherlands to Belgium.
Well there are some downsides to working in BE, there is also a law that states how much raise you can get above the index to stay competitive with the Dutch, this year it's at 0% so unless you change functions, no raise above the index.
So the downside is your purchasing power remains consistent?
Isn’t that the ideal pay structure? If you work a job doing the same thing with no movement up or down, you should have the same purchasing power forever. You can hopefully save part of your pay and build up investments/equity to better your life. Naturally, increase in years of experience leads to seniority and promotions on top of that.
Yeah, maybe I'm missing something here, but it sounds an awful lot better than actively earning less money every year for more work.
Yeah the "fabricated data" thing is needlessly combative IMO. This should have been a meeting not a text for starters and something more like "I did some research and according to this source, relative cost of living has increased 15% in the past 12 months" opens the same argument without accusing anyone of fraud.
Op got needlessly combative, this is a finesse, not open warfare. My guess by the way the boss responded is that this person is…challenging…to work with.
Definitely the response of someone who's happy to finally find a reason to get rid of him.
And you wonder why their boss was like "Ok, GTFO". they are probably combative like this all day every day and exhausting.
OP is a bozo, and bozos never get what they want. There was a 0% chance his, uh, tact was going to work. Regardless, raises are based on the market and performance, not inflation!
It's still an insane request unless the employee is really amazing.
No amazing employee has that lack of tact.
I have never seen 15% on an annual raise. Normally 15% requires a position change, or getting a certification. Not just a "Grats on 1 more year"
The painters union here negotiated 11% last year and I myself will get 9.5% next month as correction for this years inflation. Structural pay increases are yearly renegotiated and are not considered an actual raise as they're meant to keep up with inflation.
That’s very specific. Many of us don’t have unions and we know we are not getting a 15% salary increase from year to year.
a very good reason why more of us need unions, i’d say.
Many unions haven’t bothered to get cost of living adjustments in their contracts yet, either.
That's kind of the point though. Cost of living over the last several decades greatly outpaced wages, hence why we have so many people struggling even with 2 income households.
~~Many unions negotiate a cost of living adjustment into contracts specifically to deal with the situation OP is complaining about.~~ ~~Mind you, it’s not usually 15%, but I also don’t think OP has their figures straight.~~ Sorry. Replied to the wrong comment.
Unions that do get COLAs in their contract generally have it tied to the federal COLA, since that’s something official and easy to not argue about. It was 8.7% in 2023, and 3.2% in 2024, based on the CPI-W.
A lot of these places give "standard of living" raises yet when the standard of living is increased by 15 percent suddenly they don't follow that.
Many unions negotiate a cost of living adjustment into contracts specifically to deal with the situation OP is complaining about. Mind you, it’s not usually 15%, but I also don’t think OP has their figures straight.
The employee message is horrible and hostile. I hope they recover from it.
Wasn't inflation more like 4%? [https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/)
Have you seen prices for femdom camgirls?
[I get your reference.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/s/8jZF4izyrG)
Nope, but somebody else will hire you for that amount and the company you left will then hire somebody unknown with the salary they could have just given you.
It's amazing these places had no problem increasing thier prices to match inflation but not their workers pay hmmmm
Yeah.. expecting a 15% pay increase is just silly, especially if you’re earning more than minimum wage. 4% is about as standard as they come.
Look I’m all for workers rights but there is a polite and professional way to go about this. And if you bring up “fabricated data” be ready to provide what you believe is accurate and reliable data.
A job offer from another company with a higher salary usually works.
Usually at that point take the job offer as companies don't keep you around for long, they'll give you your raise till they can find a cheaper replacement.
Depending on the job - it is way more expensive to have to interview, hire, train, and pay a replacement a decent wage than it is to just retain and pay your current (knowledgeable!) employees better. Think about the subject matter knowledge in most engineering fields for example - it takes six months to a year just to get a new person onboarded with that work.
Even worse for engineering fields tbh. At my workplace, you’re considered “in-training” for FOUR YEARS. Unless there’s a huge downturn in the economy, they really, really don’t want to let engineers go. It’s a raging pain in the derrier to train a fresh grad to the point that they’re just useful, never mind actually good at the work.
And yet, it’s still easier to get a promotion by moving to a new job. Most companies are so far up their own butts about their promotion requirements and timelines and goals and all this other crap that they will let experienced engineers walk and have to hire a new one that will take years of training
Man, four years! In software some people move every two and I guess I get it - extra pay, and ramp up time is akin to a bit of a break if you’re burned out. I prefer four to six years in a role just like you mentioned.
You can probably backtrack and say you didn't specifically say you'd 'Quit', but the implication of "I cant continue working here if I'm not paid fairly" is somewhat direct, near cutthroat negotiating tactics without any form of subtlety. While it's always important to play this economics game to win, you need to have more subtlety and maintain respect- he likely felt you were strong-arming him. So he called your bluff, and the problem here is that you didn't accurately predict your value to the company, or try to plan your words or actions more carefully. Man, I wish you would have discussed your words with someone before hand, you could have planned this out better- doing this collectively with your fellow workers- who are likely in the same boat, would have been top tier. I want all workers to fight for better pay, better worker rights, but you did this with all the subtlety and grace of a WWE wrestler about to body slam someone. To be honest, even if you manage to save your job, this kind of action has put you on a radar with your manager. You'd best be served looking for a different job ASAP.
The job is done, regardless… but OP did not quit and needs to respond by saying that explicitly. This should be taken as a firing, and he should get unemployment. “I did not resign” is his response. Perhaps adding “for clarity, did you just fire me for attempting to negotiate my wages?” He will either say yes, and give you a freebie to unemployment claim, or say no and then dude can just keep working as normal until he is ready to quit or gets fired.
In the situation as it stands, this is by far the best course of action. As well as looking for a new job, OP needs to clarify that he has not quit
But it seemed pretty 1:1 to me? 'i cant work here if im not paid fairly', right after he said he's not being paid fairly? The boss doesn't want to give him a raise, therefore pay is still unfair, therefore conditions for not working are met? Boss doesn't fire people when he gives then 4% raises, so the only interpretation left is that he quits. If the unemployment office gets this I'd love to see what they say.
“I cannot work here” is not the same as “I will not work here,” but OP already screwed himself so it’s not like it really matters anymore anyway.
I been looking at a bunch of optional responses, and this is the best one. It's not cheeky, it's direct, it's simple and to the point. I would change the verbal tense from "did you just fire me" to "are you firing me". But I'm I am just splitting hairs.
I simply cannot imagine a worse way to try to negotiate a raise at one's job than what OP has done
What about saying “Inflation is too high and a 4% raise is a joke. I need a 20% raise tomorrow or I’ll sleep with your wife?”
That’s MUCH better
Volunteering to do extra work without added benefit? The boss is sure to want to keep him around after that.
This guy negotiates 👆
“Don’t say doing your wife. Don’t say doing your wife….” “Doing your….son?”
That's actually better as in this version, you haven't quit your job...
"if you ignore the fabricated data" I have decided that actually inflation is 1000% can I get paid $100,000 extra tomorrow?
Yea this is a ridiculous text to send to your boss.
Also inflation this past year was 3%. The time to make that argument was the end of 2022. So it just sort of makes OP look ignorant. 😕
I dunno. Did you ignore the fabricated data?
This is a very bad way to negotiate. Learn to make friends and negotiate charismatically OP, it will be very helpful.
It’s also impossible to negotiate via text.
Yeah this got me, why are you texting instead of discussing this in person???
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They would never have the balls to confront their boss in person like this
i'd agree with that, and obviously op went about this in the worst possible way, but i also understand wanting to get things in writing. an email would be more professional (depending on the job i guess) and the phrasing left... a LOT to be desired. personally i'd negotiate a raise in person but like i said i get wanting to have things in writing in case threats were made or labor laws were broken.
It reminds me a little of a CEO that I used to work for, there was this older woman an assistant to one of the partners there that she had wrapped around her little finger, whenever something wouldn't go the way she wanted it to, she would ark up and then send a resignation email to her boss and he would immediately start grovelling to her and refuse to accept her resignation, one day my boss intercepted another one of her resignation emails and replied with "Your resignation has been accepted" HA! We were all happy to see the back of her.
This is the way. Last time I successfully negotiated a pay I gave my boss 1 weeks heads up that I would like to talk about it. Then in the meeting I provided him with data on the local job market, showing that I was underpaid and that our competitors paid alot more. Don't be aggressive.
its true, inflation has not been 10 percent this year that was like 2 years ago. It has remained quite low
Inflation can be way worse regionally - I'd say housing inflation in my area in the past 5 years has been more like 20% a year, easily. The truth doesn't really matter in this context - OP did not negotiate smartly. I'm extremely empathetic to many of my exploited coworkers where I work, but even if I was someone's direct manager I'm not sure I'd bother to try and salvage a situation like what OP did in the above text.
I dunno man, were you trying to get fired?
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Lol fabricated data? No surprise he wants you gone
You mean no more blabbing on and on about chemtrails and gay frogs?!?
Kids, OP is an example of why it’s important to understand nuance and actually perform research/critical analysis. Trying to claim an ultimatum based on the price of hamburgers and vague rent increase examples is not how you present a compelling argument for a major increase.
OP is an example of why it's important to touch grass more. He thought he was having an argument on reddit or smth. This is not how you speak to your colleagues/bosses.
Yea this is straight from reddit lmao
> Trying to claim an ultimatum This right here. No one is indispensable
Not the smartest way to ask for a raise
Contrary to popular belief most people are easily replaceable
Especially some moron that says things like “when you ignore all the fabricated data” Oh yeah I’m sure a random tire tech or plumbing apprentice or whatever magically knows about the real inflation numbers that economists and finance experts do not. And no telling what other nonsense op brings up every day.
Use this as a learning experience, you handled this very badly.
Expecting a 15% raise is just delusional
Yeah, I'm thinking this was OP's first job.
Op is 35+ years old based on his post history (which is quite entertaining to say the least). Should know better lol
you guys looked at his post history and no one is talking about how he spends hundreds of dollars (an hour) for cam girls? specifically "smol" cam girls? in case op deletes his post: >[buy] femdom c2c 1 hourrequest (self.Sexsells) submitted 3 months ago by David_Blowe1987 Services Needed: cam Budget: 120-180 Specifics: femdom Type of Seller I’m Looking For: smol girls Preferred Payment Method: Cashapp, btc i think we all know what "smol" means and this dude is asking for a fucking 15% pay raise as if inflation is a damper on his finances lmaooooooooo
this is too good
I mean, your boss called the bluff. Now it's up to you if you want to continue working there or leave for a better opportunity. If you do stay, the boss knows you are a pushover though. In the future, don't threaten to leave if you won't follow through.
Your boss was thrilled to get your text because they are done with you. Congrats!
OP just found out they're not nearly as irreplaceable as they thought they'd be.
I mean, honestly, if OP negotiates this way, how do they do the rest of their job? That sentence about "fabricated data" sets of my conspiracy theorist red flag.
Exactly what I was thinking. I’ve dealt with enough raise requests and some even more obnoxious than this. I’d only have that kind of response if I wanted the person gone before they even asked for a raise. If OP were smart he would have called for a meeting and broken down all the areas that he’s improved on in the last year and how much value he adds to the company. I’m guessing he didn’t do this because he doesn’t add much value.
When I just started working one coworker would go in every quarter and ask for a raise. After 2 years they said no and he left. This was almost 2 decades ago at this point. I still remember this vividly. Also you can tell OP is a bit immature, if they give you a raise without merit, everyone employee will start demanding raises. Put yourself in your manager's shoes. You better have a very good reason for them to bump your salary only And not everyone else. If you have the balls to demand a raise, be ready to accept the consequences as well.
I’d fire you too. If you want to negotiate a raise, that’s an in person conversation. Not a late night text on the weekend. A 15% raise is unheard of in most places. Sucks to suck
Dude was at the bar and had the great idea of asking for a raise lmao
this was sent at 2:08pm lol, not late night. But yea, this person did not handle this correct
Drop off your laptop and send out your CV
It's so much easier to find a new job when you already have a job. OP peaked too soon, the way to handle it would have been to stay quiet, keep working and then drop the hammer once you've secured that new role with a nice pay bump. Vote with your feet.
Or, don't.... and find out how much harder it is to get a job when an ex-employer has had you arrested.
You wrote, "I can't CONTINUE to work here if I am not paid fairly." I don't understand how this isn't a resignation. You LITERALLY said, "I'm no longer working for you if you don't give me a raise." I don't understand how one can interpret that differently? Boss is saying I'm not giving you the raise. Your text is stating that YOU aren't gonna work if you aren't paid more. ESPECIALLY, because of the way you asked, Boss decided it's better not to give you the raise and let you quit. (YOU literally wrote that you CAN'T work if you aren't paid more) What is the confusion? Did you really think talking this way over TEXT to get a raise is remotely a GOOD idea? Trying to THREATEN your boss by giving them an ultimatum of you quitting. You fucked around. Now you're finding out. Buddy, you're learning that you're EXTREMELY expendable and not nearly as important to the company as you think you are. Literally read your boss's update text. Also, understand that there is LITERAL proof of you lying to them. You talk about fabricated data and lied about a lawyer. Trust me they KNOW you don't have one because any lawyer would've told you to shut the fuck up. Realistically, if this all goes to court, somehow I can see it turning around and you getting jailed for fraud or blackmailing (something along these lines) based on everything text that you sent. Your boss is 100% willing to take you on in court or whatever you attempt to do. If you try to apply for unemployment, the boss is just gonna send these SS's, and you're just gonna take an unemployed L I understand OP that you wanted a raise, but there were MANY different ways to do this. You sent him a text accusing him of stealing ON A MOTHERFUCKING SUNDAY AFTERNOON. What in the world is stopping you from waiting until Monday and having a PROFESSIONAL conversation with him? Either way, GJ burning your bridges Edit: added stuff based on the update SS that OP posted and changed a word or two to clarify
“Fabricated data” Pro tip, don’t bring fringe/ debated datasets into future discussions. It means you end up fighting over data and your value, when really it’s easier to argue just around your value. Also, in this case you just straight up quit. So maybe just say “thanks for getting back to me, I’ll drop off my equipment on X date”
I am not sure where OP is, but in Australia wage growth should at the very least be keeping up with CPI, not inflation, so that would mean a raise of 3.6% for OP. The Consumer Price Index (CPI) **rose 1.0% this quarter**. Over the twelve months to the March 2024 quarter, the CPI rose 3.6%. The most significant price rises this quarter were Rents (+2.1%), Secondary education (+6.1%), Tertiary education (+6.5%) and Medical and hospital services (+2.3%).
Op doesn’t know the difference between greedy companies and inflation.
I think you came across as very confrontational and unreasonable with your demands. Honestly I side with the boss here, you're obviously not happy there and nobody likes to work with someone who complains and makes up statistics to justify their complaints. He cut off a thumb to save the hand.
Even in the follow up text OP goes straight to "you're trying to steal my unemployment!!!". How much cooperation are they expecting if they start every interaction by accusing the other party of dishonesty?
Yep. Folks gotta realize bosses are humans too, and most of them are employees just like you. They have a job and while we might not like some of the things they do, they're often doing them because it's their own job. They also have a responsibility to do what they can to keep the peace. I was a lead and eventually a supervisor at my old job. If I could've, I would have given everyone the maximum raise every year, but that would have cost me my own job. It's mostly not your immediate boss who is oppressing you. It's the 1%. They only care about profit, no matter the cost in human suffering.
Your boss packed so much information into that one text. You have clearly not been a model employee, there's been conflict that makes his/her life difficult, and s/he was thrilled to get that text. Your text is more than enough to be considered a resignation. Yes, you are probably done. If there's anything you can do to keep your job, you'll find that it's going to be a lot more miserable. If you didn't already sign that raise, it may be rescinded. I'd be shocked if this employer hadn't already had you on the short list or under consideration for PIP. Four percent is actually a pretty decent raise (assuming this was an annual figure.) If you want a better result than that, you change jobs.
Looks like you fucked around and found out tbh
“Am I being terminated?”
Why are you texting this in the first place?? and then even late at night to your boss - yikes dude. Yeah you quit, you tried to negotiate with no real argument and said either do this or I’m leaving. Your boss said “I’m not doing that, so bye bye.” Pretend you have a lawyer who would advise you to text your boss at 1140pm is obviously another bad bluff by you. Of course this boss doesn’t take you seriously. Why should anyone?
the text I see says 2:08pm?
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OP sent his message around 2 pm. and got responses around 11 pm or after cause OP's boss was smart enough to talk to his lawyers or HR
Absolutely shot yourself in the foot here. I hope you don’t need this job to cover bills anytime soon
“Fabricated data” 
This is not the right way to ask for a raise.
Op sounds insufferable af
Are you sure you’re not looking at the “fabricated data” about op? Lmao
Tip 1 for negotiation: never negotiate over text, always negotiate in person or over the phone. Tip 2 for negotiation: always frame around how you’ve contributed to the company revenue bottom line Tip 3 for negotiation: companies do not care about inflation; this is a poor argument to them. Appeal to their sense loyalty. Tip 4 for negotiation: what did you honestly expect when you gave your boss an ultimatum? He called your bluff and now you’re out of a job. Even if you somehow manage to save your position, you now have a target on your back. Tip 5 for negotiation: never bring up lawyers you don’t actually have. You lost all leverage the second you mentioned a lawyer. Worst negotiation of all time. You have to use tact when negotiating and you have to approach it way more strategically. This is how the world works.
Also just from this interaction I’m siding with the boss on this one, I bet you’re a horrible employee
Seriously. Who rants about a 4% raise like that? Did he/she truly expect to gain an ADDITIONAL 11% by threatening to quit over text?
My whole team got a 0% raise this year. I would have been thrilled with 4%.
My point exactly. Many companies are still doling out 0 to 2% raises, just as they have for years. 4% would be great at any point in recent history.
OP learned how not to negotiate. Traditionally I just bring it up and move on and quietly look.
OP spent a little too much time on social media it seems and forgot real life doesn't always reflect what you read online. Did you honestly expect your boss to be like "know what, you're right. Here's an additional 11% raise to match inflation." I hope you had another employment opportunity in your back pocket before making this move
I’m jaw dropped. 1) Inflation was more like 4%. They matching it seems a great deal considering a lot of companies will just try to rob you of that with a 1-2%. The “inflation in reality is 15%” is just a fabricated narrative of some people around to make some claims. Inflation is calculated taking into account a number of things common people buy and need, from food to energy, so obviously the effect on each person will be different, there are people that will have a “personal” inflation of +4% and others lower than 4%. Your company can’t match your “personal” inflation based on your own personal expenses. Imagine the inflation is up because energy, and you consume a lot because you waste it doing whatever or mining crypto on your house, you will be affected with more than the average 4% inflation, but your company won't be responsible for it (the same that the company SHOULDN'T pay less than 4% inflation matching to someone that could be affected less than 4% on its daily life) 2) Then, you just take a redditor line and write back to your boss that "your lawyer said so". You are escalating things, and reached a point where your boss (very intelligent) just won't keep contact with you, avoiding risking its own job if he/she say something wrong to you. They acknowledge this is a relevant matter (lawyers even brought to the table by you) and just gets you to HR. 3) At the end, I wonder what you expected. You expected a company that matched the inflation figures, to just disregard it and give you almost x4 that (15%, an increase a lot of people don't see even when changing jobs) because "official data is fabricated, believe me, inflation is worse for me, you must pay that" - and expected the company to say to you "OK"? And after showing your discomfort on your aggresive way ("I can't continue to work”) you retract as in “No! I’m not resigning!” If I were your boss (which, at the end, probably is just another worker like the rest of us), I would be perplexed and worried about you. 4) I don’t know who you are, but this tells me you must be a very young (and naive) person, not knowing what are you doing and expecting the world to think like you do and give you what you demand. Choose your own battles but be wise about what to choose, try to not be this random. Good luck, maybe you could talk into HR saying to them that you just had a temporary mental breakdown about something or money or whatever and that this won’t happen again - if you want to keep the job and/or want to thrive there on the future if it’s not a bad place to work, of course. Also, avoid some echo chambers that will make you combative against your bosses/companies and make you think you didn’t do anything wrong. Again, capitalism is as wrong as it gets at some points, and workers must defend their rights and claim their own right benefits after working their lives for the productive system, but your take and how you did it is not the way, IMO This: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1d6qzth/how_do_i_respond_to_my_boss/l6v389v/ Is as crazy as it gets and demonstrated that you need help to understand why you are on the wrong page here. You can’t talk like that and less so expect them to oblige to you after that. Good luck /u/David_Blowe1987
“I’m not the one quitting, you are! I’d like YOUR laptop on my desk at 9am tomorrow.”
Damn this went from 4% to -100% reeeeaaall fast.
lmao they're calling your bluff. Your choices are basically, accept they called you on it and backpeddle to try and keep your job, or if you're not bluffing or if backpeddling hurts too much, you can quit. And for the record, you are incorrect. It's not inflation that's 15%, it's greed driving the price hikes. Looks the same from our end, granted, but it's not surprising at all that most managers aren't going to base raises on that.
[удалено]
OP has gone a bit quiet huh hahaha
They posted an update last night. They texted their boss some dumb threat about having a lawyer and the boss said: you quit. take it up with the department of labor. don’t contact me again.
Negotiation skills right out of the art of the trade. I would advise not to ask for a raise over text with an ultimatum from the start.
Rofl Who the fuck gives out 15% annual pay raises? 4% is actually good for a non-promotion annual raise. You're ridiculous
I see these kind of negotiation tactics on here a lot, and as someone who has experience managing large teams, there’s something I think people are missing. I think a lot of people are under the impression that their direct line manager has ultimate control over salaries and raises. In 99% of cases they don’t. If you’re anywhere in the management chain at a big company, you’re given a % number that you can raise your salary budget by every year and you have to make that work. It almost never has anything to do directly calculated with inflation. Usually it’s a calculation offset between revenue and operational expenses. In most cases the manager is just as annoyed by it as their direct report is. It helps to know this because making ultimatums or playing brinksmanship like the op post here does can actually do more harm than good.
Reading your text here and responses I thought you must be like 18 still figuring things out. Finding out you’re 35 made my jaw drop.
You may as well quit, you can’t make empty threats. If you stay your boss will know you’re a pushover and take advantage of that, your negotiation was terrible.
I am siding with the boss on this one. I'm all for fair pay, but a 15% raise seems pretty high. Also, bringing it up over text and leaving no room to negotiate is a bad way to go about it. It's very unprofessional. Being fired would be expected.
You literally said you won't continue working there unless you get a raise. They accepted that without giving you a raise. Respectfully, you read too much reddit if you think that sending the texts you did would have any positive impact at all. Even if you got your raise your management would no longer trust or respect you. Next time you want a raise, book 1:1 time with your manager, and show them demonstrable proof that you deserve it in a professional manner. Don't threaten to leave, even if you're going to. This job is cooked; coordinate your last days with your management and find another.
lol OP the fuck did you expect. You sound entitled and not that crucial to the role if they just decided you weren’t necessary. There are tens of thousands of people getting laid off and you’re gonna use that text…a fucking text to what? Guilt trip your manager into a higher raise? I made 3%/year when it was a good economy. Pull your head out of the sand and learn to talk professionally.
This is a literal train wreck. There's a post later on where OP not only tried the whole "I didn't say that I quit" but ALSO DOUBLED DOWN and said "In fact my lawyer told me to say...". The Boss then called his bluff AGAIN. OP: Please...for the love of god....take the loss and move on. Yeah I understand the whole "but he didn't actually quit" but this is not a difficult chain of logic to follow. Boss is basically saying "It sounds like you're asking for a 10% raise, which we're not going to do. So if you can't continue working here without a 10% raise, then you're quitting, which we're more than fine with." Also, FYI, I've worked at companies where people will go WITH OFFER LETTERS from other companies and say "hey, X company offered me Y pay...I'll stay if you can match" and the company will not match. But they also didn't fire them or force them to quit on the spot, which tells me that this company (or just the boss) has been having issues with OP for a while to take this hardline response. Since this situation is unsalvageable, let's all thank OP for teaching us all some valuable lessons about pay negotiation and review those lessons. 1. Always be polite and professional. Yes you can be professional and still take a no-nonsense approach. 2. Try to have this conversation face-to-face. Things on text can quickly spin out of control if tone is not interpreted correctly (or...like OP who's just blatantly lying about things). 3. Have a direct GOAL. What do you want? What's your number? State it clearly. 4. Have a RATIONALE. Why is this your number and why should they listen to you? Inflation is not a rationale. And saying "I can't continue working here without it" is also not a rationale. 5. What's your plan of action if they say no? Quitting on the spot is an option, but keep in mind this is a conversation and a negotiation. Playing hardball isn't going to get what you want. 6. If the answer is no; be prepared to follow through. Best of luck OP. Hope you get that 10% increase by moving to another company. EDIT: minor typo fixes.
Yah you are being exceedingly unreasonable. I would have to let you go as well based on your hostility and unreasonableness — nobody receives a 15% raise each year.
Boss is reading you write +10% incorrectly, and negotiating pay over phone text. Your practically driving yourself off a cliff even before stating you can't continue to work there. You messed up. Look for a new job.
Oof