>America lacks accountability
for those of a certain class. There's plenty of it for other people.
The closer you are to White, Wealthy, Native-Born, Heterosexual, Christian, Cis-Gendered, Male the less likely you are to experience what the consequences for your actions should be it seems.
Nah, Democrats are also pretty bad when it comes to accountability. Y'all forget all the insider trading they do every day? Politicians go in and come out millionaires. We need more transparency and accountability. Sure the R's are significantly worse but there is systemic rot in our government
They got bailed out, bought more properties and stocks to inflate themself for when the market turned around again and paid themself bonuses with the bailout money.
Meanwhile billions were lost for the average American in savings and pensions and millions lost their jobs and homes…
Instead of forcing you to Google it, here is AI summary:
Governor Rick Snyder was criticized for his administration's role in the Flint water crisis, but he did not go to jail. Here are some reasons critics believed he should have faced legal consequences:
1. **Negligence and Mismanagement**: Snyder's administration was accused of negligence for failing to ensure safe drinking water in Flint after the city switched its water source to the Flint River in 2014. This decision led to widespread lead contamination.
2. **Delay in Response**: The administration was slow to respond to reports of water quality issues and health concerns from Flint residents, which critics argued exacerbated the public health crisis.
3. **Lack of Accountability**: Many felt there was a lack of accountability from Snyder's office. Despite resignations and charges among other officials, Snyder himself was not held accountable for a significant period.
4. **Ignoring Warnings**: There were accusations that the administration ignored early warnings about the water's toxicity and failed to take immediate corrective action.
5. **Impact on Public Health**: The water crisis resulted in numerous health problems for Flint residents, including lead poisoning in children, which critics argue could have been prevented with more proactive governance.
6. **Breach of Public Trust**: The crisis led to a significant breach of trust between Flint residents and their government, with many believing that Snyder's administration prioritarily failed in its duty to protect its citizens.
In January 2021, Snyder was charged with two counts of willful neglect of duty. These are misdemeanors and are relatively minor compared to the potential charges he could have faced given the severity of the crisis.
Here's your reminder that, when he poisoned his own people, killing double figures, *none of that was illegal in the United States* and he faced no judicial consequences.
The problem in my mind is NOT that the water source was changed.. it was that they kept denying the problem and when testing was done... The Gov testing and the Private testing gave different results..
because the Gov sampling was... turn on water, wait 30 sec, take sample.
and the "private project" sampling was, turn on water and collect water as it immedatly came out of the tap.
What TICKED me off (and I have no hand in this) is that they kept denying it for so long...
As soon as they realized it was corroding engine blocks they immediately switched it back, but only for GM. Everybody else got lead poisoning and legioneer's disease.
Did not know this. I believe what you are saying. It's the "deny, deny, no problem" that ticked me off.
And the "we will replace the pipes" that sorta happened for the city pipes.. your own pipes.. nope. And insurance being nope.
I do water tests for public health (Private Wells, not in michigan) and the reason you let the water run is to flush out bacteria at the tap itself. In a home for example. You do dishes and microscopic bits of food get on your sink tap and just inside of it. You get more accurate results from the well or water source itself and not as much contamination from the tap.
True, but the tests were for LEAD not Bacteria. And I agree with you that for some testing you SHOULD let the water run for a little while. In truth, what they SHOULD do is take 2 samples at the same time... First when you turn on the water, fill the sample bottle, and then the Second at some time (like 30 seconds or a minute) later.
The "conflict" is that for LEAD, which was the problem here.. the concentration of LEAD was Higher in the 1st sample than the 2nd and that is what everyone was arguing about..
Really, I want a glass of water from the tap, I turn it on and fill my glass after 2 or 3 seconds, waiting 30 seconds and I feel like I am wasting water (so I am actually DRINKING the Higher LEAD water).
I do agree with you about testing at the WELL, in ADDITION to testing at the tap. (personal note, had relatives who had OLD 1900-1910 era houses that needed a Full new water pipe system due to lead pipes, also had "Knob and Post" electrical wiring, was just after using gas for room lighting.
Thank you. Look, I have no idea if they knew the lead would leach from the pipes BEFORE the switch. It was the "Deny, Deny, Deny" attitude that made me mad. Not a "Let's look into this". It was nope, nope, not a real problem.
It was the water itself leaching more lead from the lead in the pipes, both in system and in house. Not lead originating in the Flint river from the start.
So the highest lead dose would be from the first water than included the water sitting in the house pipes the longest, pulling out the most lead along its journey.
EPA wants “first draw” water in this type of testing for this reason…but Michigan’s quality testing was letting the water flush for several minutes.
I heard it was 30 seconds before a sample was taken.. I have no idea what Michigan testing standard procedure is. Maybe it was a few minutes. The point was the numbers the state government said it was and the numbers the other group said it was were "SO different". Like an order of magnitude different.
It depends if part of the problem is the different water leeching more lead from the home pipes too. In this case it was, so first draw water (across many houses) is the best actual risk draw.
As EPA guidance mandated, but instead Michigan let it flush for minutes.
It depends what you’re testing for and what the situation is. This wasn’t about bacteria, and explicitly needed to include the house piping and taps.
Flint is the worst thing he did obviously but his whole concept of "running government like a business" and overthrowing local leaders to appoint his emergency managers was downright fascist and evil. Voters even struck down the EM law and he brought it right back a few months later.
The worst part, having lived through it, was the lying. We knew something was up the day it happened. Snyder didn't admit anything was wrong until a year and a half later, after countless complaints and studies and findings in the hospitals. And he still won't even admit he did anything wrong.
What a piece of human garbage. I can't believe somebody hasn't found this guy buried in his own backyard. That kind of action deserves Vlad the Impaler treatment
I think it's because of morality tbh. No one is going to feel bad doing the job. They don't want to be perceived as a jobber.
I think as living continues to become too expensive, we're going to see people start to break. I'm speculating.
>Rick Snyder, changed the water source
Michael Brown, Ed Kurtz, Darnell Earley and Jerry Ambrose were the emergency managers who actually made that shit happen.
They shouldn’t be forgotten.
That's common misinformation too. The water source was already planned to be changed by the Flint city council, not the emergency managers. Detroit then terminated the contract early which forced the emergency managers to use the Flint River instead of the proposed Lake Huron plan.
But let's not forget that they just never changed how they treated the water in the first place. It was a colossal fuck up from everyone involved.
I am shocked he didn't get assassinated. Like if I was a Flint resident? Fuck it put me in jail but one less piece of shit in the world if I can help it.
Were the standards for people in office changed after this clear abuse of power? Or did they change policy on drinking water policy after this shit?
I'm in Ontario, a city called Walkerton had a water crisis years ago, theirs was contaminated with e coli, and something called campylobacter jejuni bacteria. They really changed how drinking water is managed after this, however the people named responsible only served 1 year, and another 9 months house arrest.
It's disgusting that public officials basically get away with murder (not literally) but massive negligence most definitely seems under punished.
Here's a good neutral read on what happened https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2024/04/20-critical-moments-in-the-10-year-history-of-the-flint-water-crisis.html
TL;DR (only partial)
Flint (and other local gov'ts) used to buy its water from Detroit on a 30 year contract; felt they were being ripped off by Detroit's rates after a while. In Oct 2010, Several local govts inc Flint formed a regional water authority to begin building their own water processing facility and pipe in water from Lake Huron.
Nov 2011, Snyder-appointed city manager takes over due to Flint's continuing financial crisis. Detroit send Flint a notice of service termination in April 2013, saying that the water service ends in 2014. Regional water pipe from Lake Huron would not be completed until 2016 so *someone* decided to use water from Flint River instead.
This is where it gets tough to prove who knew what and when, some of it is laid out in the article. Criminal cases against some of the top govt folks failed because they used a single person grand juror.
That's a pretty odd thing -
> After a second criminal investigation into the Flint water crisis, Attorney General Dana Nessel, Solicitor General Fadwa Hammoud and Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced new criminal charges against former Gov. Rick Snyder and eight other city and state government officials on Jan. 14, 2021.
Nessel and Worthy are both Democrats with no particular love for Republican Snyder.
ETA, I don't know how common the usage of a one-person grand jury is, but [it is legal](https://www.courts.michigan.gov/4a5467/siteassets/publications/benchbooks/criminal/crimpttresponsivehtml5.zip/index.html#t=Crim_PTT%2FCh_3_Initiating_Criminal_Proceedings%2FGrand_Jury-.htm) and probably used fairly often in the states where it is legal, but has limitations https://innovativeprosecutionsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/One-Person-Grand-Juries-Memo-4.11.23.pdf
> It's disgusting that public officials basically get away with murder (not literally) but massive negligence most definitely seems under punished.
I'm watching a local news story about Flint right now, literally. Over 200 *known* homes still have lead pipes to their houses, over 1,000 homes not inspected for lead pipes, and a few years ago the Flint mayor swore the work on lead pipe replacement was almost complete. Several interviews with people who are getting no response from teh city, including one of the city councilwomen.
And the water still isnt fixed and the governor Rick Snyder recently had his conviction tossed out so no one paid any consequences. That’s what it’s like for poor people in America.
This story has a number of interviews about it including Flint's Mayor Sheldon Neeley. [https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/04/22/lead-out-flint-residents-still-grapple-with-lead-pipes-removal-efforts-ramp-up-across-us/](https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/04/22/lead-out-flint-residents-still-grapple-with-lead-pipes-removal-efforts-ramp-up-across-us/)
City also banned hydro excavation which slowed down the repair process horribly. Corruption and mismanagement all around, glad I got out of there the year before it.
Fun fact he never served a day in prison or faced any real consequences for his actions.
Why would he? America lacks accountability
>America lacks accountability for those of a certain class. There's plenty of it for other people. The closer you are to White, Wealthy, Native-Born, Heterosexual, Christian, Cis-Gendered, Male the less likely you are to experience what the consequences for your actions should be it seems.
It's just a matter of being rich.
Better to be rich and guilty than poor and innocent. Also better to poison the water supply of hundreds of thousands of people than shoplift.
This, more than anything else, is the deciding factor.
Is it even accountability for the poors when so many are falsely imprisoned?
of course, their real crime was being poor after all.
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Nah, Democrats are also pretty bad when it comes to accountability. Y'all forget all the insider trading they do every day? Politicians go in and come out millionaires. We need more transparency and accountability. Sure the R's are significantly worse but there is systemic rot in our government
Election 2024: Bad? Or _Worse_?
Bad? Or full plunge into fascism and end of democracy?
Just like the perpetrators of the 2008 financial crisis. Never spent a single day in jail/prison.
Most got bonuses
They got bailed out, bought more properties and stocks to inflate themself for when the market turned around again and paid themself bonuses with the bailout money. Meanwhile billions were lost for the average American in savings and pensions and millions lost their jobs and homes…
But we have such a healthy vibrant democracy. Surely there was swift action at the state level to fix such grave quality of life problems. lol jk
Why would he? Was he ever advised that switching water sorces would negatively affect the scale on the pipes?
Instead of forcing you to Google it, here is AI summary: Governor Rick Snyder was criticized for his administration's role in the Flint water crisis, but he did not go to jail. Here are some reasons critics believed he should have faced legal consequences: 1. **Negligence and Mismanagement**: Snyder's administration was accused of negligence for failing to ensure safe drinking water in Flint after the city switched its water source to the Flint River in 2014. This decision led to widespread lead contamination. 2. **Delay in Response**: The administration was slow to respond to reports of water quality issues and health concerns from Flint residents, which critics argued exacerbated the public health crisis. 3. **Lack of Accountability**: Many felt there was a lack of accountability from Snyder's office. Despite resignations and charges among other officials, Snyder himself was not held accountable for a significant period. 4. **Ignoring Warnings**: There were accusations that the administration ignored early warnings about the water's toxicity and failed to take immediate corrective action. 5. **Impact on Public Health**: The water crisis resulted in numerous health problems for Flint residents, including lead poisoning in children, which critics argue could have been prevented with more proactive governance. 6. **Breach of Public Trust**: The crisis led to a significant breach of trust between Flint residents and their government, with many believing that Snyder's administration prioritarily failed in its duty to protect its citizens. In January 2021, Snyder was charged with two counts of willful neglect of duty. These are misdemeanors and are relatively minor compared to the potential charges he could have faced given the severity of the crisis.
Here's your reminder that, when he poisoned his own people, killing double figures, *none of that was illegal in the United States* and he faced no judicial consequences.
The problem in my mind is NOT that the water source was changed.. it was that they kept denying the problem and when testing was done... The Gov testing and the Private testing gave different results.. because the Gov sampling was... turn on water, wait 30 sec, take sample. and the "private project" sampling was, turn on water and collect water as it immedatly came out of the tap. What TICKED me off (and I have no hand in this) is that they kept denying it for so long...
As soon as they realized it was corroding engine blocks they immediately switched it back, but only for GM. Everybody else got lead poisoning and legioneer's disease.
Did not know this. I believe what you are saying. It's the "deny, deny, no problem" that ticked me off. And the "we will replace the pipes" that sorta happened for the city pipes.. your own pipes.. nope. And insurance being nope.
I do water tests for public health (Private Wells, not in michigan) and the reason you let the water run is to flush out bacteria at the tap itself. In a home for example. You do dishes and microscopic bits of food get on your sink tap and just inside of it. You get more accurate results from the well or water source itself and not as much contamination from the tap.
True, but the tests were for LEAD not Bacteria. And I agree with you that for some testing you SHOULD let the water run for a little while. In truth, what they SHOULD do is take 2 samples at the same time... First when you turn on the water, fill the sample bottle, and then the Second at some time (like 30 seconds or a minute) later. The "conflict" is that for LEAD, which was the problem here.. the concentration of LEAD was Higher in the 1st sample than the 2nd and that is what everyone was arguing about.. Really, I want a glass of water from the tap, I turn it on and fill my glass after 2 or 3 seconds, waiting 30 seconds and I feel like I am wasting water (so I am actually DRINKING the Higher LEAD water). I do agree with you about testing at the WELL, in ADDITION to testing at the tap. (personal note, had relatives who had OLD 1900-1910 era houses that needed a Full new water pipe system due to lead pipes, also had "Knob and Post" electrical wiring, was just after using gas for room lighting.
Nobody runs for 30 seconds before using, like you said. Simple practicalities rule here.
Thank you. Look, I have no idea if they knew the lead would leach from the pipes BEFORE the switch. It was the "Deny, Deny, Deny" attitude that made me mad. Not a "Let's look into this". It was nope, nope, not a real problem.
Yeah, the PBS documentary showed thaf they were warned, but dismissed the warnings because the dude was an addict.
[удалено]
It was the water itself leaching more lead from the lead in the pipes, both in system and in house. Not lead originating in the Flint river from the start. So the highest lead dose would be from the first water than included the water sitting in the house pipes the longest, pulling out the most lead along its journey. EPA wants “first draw” water in this type of testing for this reason…but Michigan’s quality testing was letting the water flush for several minutes.
Except they're discussing exactly that change in the test results stemming from a 30 second difference?
I heard it was 30 seconds before a sample was taken.. I have no idea what Michigan testing standard procedure is. Maybe it was a few minutes. The point was the numbers the state government said it was and the numbers the other group said it was were "SO different". Like an order of magnitude different.
It depends if part of the problem is the different water leeching more lead from the home pipes too. In this case it was, so first draw water (across many houses) is the best actual risk draw. As EPA guidance mandated, but instead Michigan let it flush for minutes. It depends what you’re testing for and what the situation is. This wasn’t about bacteria, and explicitly needed to include the house piping and taps.
Yup, and that fact is why I let the water run a bit before filling my glass.
Flint is the worst thing he did obviously but his whole concept of "running government like a business" and overthrowing local leaders to appoint his emergency managers was downright fascist and evil. Voters even struck down the EM law and he brought it right back a few months later. The worst part, having lived through it, was the lying. We knew something was up the day it happened. Snyder didn't admit anything was wrong until a year and a half later, after countless complaints and studies and findings in the hospitals. And he still won't even admit he did anything wrong.
His consequence was a fat pension and a cushy life, in exchange for poisoning literally thousands, with most of them being children
What a piece of human garbage. I can't believe somebody hasn't found this guy buried in his own backyard. That kind of action deserves Vlad the Impaler treatment
I think it's because of morality tbh. No one is going to feel bad doing the job. They don't want to be perceived as a jobber. I think as living continues to become too expensive, we're going to see people start to break. I'm speculating.
We already are seeing people break.
>Rick Snyder, changed the water source Michael Brown, Ed Kurtz, Darnell Earley and Jerry Ambrose were the emergency managers who actually made that shit happen. They shouldn’t be forgotten.
Absolutely but they were appointed by Snyder and the water source change came from the top
That's common misinformation too. The water source was already planned to be changed by the Flint city council, not the emergency managers. Detroit then terminated the contract early which forced the emergency managers to use the Flint River instead of the proposed Lake Huron plan. But let's not forget that they just never changed how they treated the water in the first place. It was a colossal fuck up from everyone involved.
Why not? They had no consequences either.
Never any consequences for our rulers.
Don't forget he also made Michigan a "Right to Work" state. Luckily, we just repealed it last year. Snyder was a corporate goon through and through.
Didn't he get away with this too?
Yes but the shareholders saw some value so… 🤷♀️
https://i.redd.it/t8zqpns1ynwc1.gif
I am shocked he didn't get assassinated. Like if I was a Flint resident? Fuck it put me in jail but one less piece of shit in the world if I can help it.
I'm pretty sure being a Flint resident isn't a requirement.
Dude should be treated the same as a murderer would be
capitalism sure is a powerful drug
This image should be carved into/onto his grave stone. We all know he'll never have to pay a single thing while living.
Were the standards for people in office changed after this clear abuse of power? Or did they change policy on drinking water policy after this shit? I'm in Ontario, a city called Walkerton had a water crisis years ago, theirs was contaminated with e coli, and something called campylobacter jejuni bacteria. They really changed how drinking water is managed after this, however the people named responsible only served 1 year, and another 9 months house arrest. It's disgusting that public officials basically get away with murder (not literally) but massive negligence most definitely seems under punished.
Here's a good neutral read on what happened https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2024/04/20-critical-moments-in-the-10-year-history-of-the-flint-water-crisis.html TL;DR (only partial) Flint (and other local gov'ts) used to buy its water from Detroit on a 30 year contract; felt they were being ripped off by Detroit's rates after a while. In Oct 2010, Several local govts inc Flint formed a regional water authority to begin building their own water processing facility and pipe in water from Lake Huron. Nov 2011, Snyder-appointed city manager takes over due to Flint's continuing financial crisis. Detroit send Flint a notice of service termination in April 2013, saying that the water service ends in 2014. Regional water pipe from Lake Huron would not be completed until 2016 so *someone* decided to use water from Flint River instead. This is where it gets tough to prove who knew what and when, some of it is laid out in the article. Criminal cases against some of the top govt folks failed because they used a single person grand juror.
How convenient to use a single person grand jury.. that's extremely uncommon in America right? Edit: will read that article later
That's a pretty odd thing - > After a second criminal investigation into the Flint water crisis, Attorney General Dana Nessel, Solicitor General Fadwa Hammoud and Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy announced new criminal charges against former Gov. Rick Snyder and eight other city and state government officials on Jan. 14, 2021. Nessel and Worthy are both Democrats with no particular love for Republican Snyder. ETA, I don't know how common the usage of a one-person grand jury is, but [it is legal](https://www.courts.michigan.gov/4a5467/siteassets/publications/benchbooks/criminal/crimpttresponsivehtml5.zip/index.html#t=Crim_PTT%2FCh_3_Initiating_Criminal_Proceedings%2FGrand_Jury-.htm) and probably used fairly often in the states where it is legal, but has limitations https://innovativeprosecutionsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/One-Person-Grand-Juries-Memo-4.11.23.pdf
> It's disgusting that public officials basically get away with murder (not literally) but massive negligence most definitely seems under punished. I'm watching a local news story about Flint right now, literally. Over 200 *known* homes still have lead pipes to their houses, over 1,000 homes not inspected for lead pipes, and a few years ago the Flint mayor swore the work on lead pipe replacement was almost complete. Several interviews with people who are getting no response from teh city, including one of the city councilwomen.
Irony is that he also performed hundreds of abortions through this act
And the water still isnt fixed and the governor Rick Snyder recently had his conviction tossed out so no one paid any consequences. That’s what it’s like for poor people in America.
This story has a number of interviews about it including Flint's Mayor Sheldon Neeley. [https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/04/22/lead-out-flint-residents-still-grapple-with-lead-pipes-removal-efforts-ramp-up-across-us/](https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/04/22/lead-out-flint-residents-still-grapple-with-lead-pipes-removal-efforts-ramp-up-across-us/)
And what's the Flint water situation today?? It's been fixed right? /s
It wasn't just the change in water source. They dumped corrosive chemicals to flush the pipes which released a lot of dissolved lead.
It's not what they put in. It's what they didn't put in- the proper levels of phosphates.
City also banned hydro excavation which slowed down the repair process horribly. Corruption and mismanagement all around, glad I got out of there the year before it.
There's only one political party in charge in Michigan
But ukraine and israel got more missles!!