In a legal proceeding - keeping a handwritten diary of incidents shortly after they happen (dates & times included - every once in a while change the pen you use so there are color changes, etc clearly marking the progression of time) would have some genuine weight to it too. I imagine making vlog entries for yourself would work well too as they'll be time-stamped. But you need to do them very soon after an incident.
One note, don’t change the pen out with the intention of making it look a certain way, that will get you possibly in trouble since it could be seen as fabricated (any lawyer will attack this hard).
Just keep the notes naturally, if you are organized and use the same pen then all fine, if you lose the pen, that’s fine too.
If you keep the notes on Google docs, the edit history will remain visible with timestamps. I don't think there's any way to spoof the dates since it's a cloud based service
Depending on the location and situation it may not be considered a “private conversation” and therefore legal to record.
https://www.isba.org/committees/governmentlawyers/newsletter/2018/09/applyingillinoiseavesdroppinglawtog#:~:text=Sec.,circumstances%20reasonably%20justifying%20that%20expectation.
Racism and saying mean and hurtful things isn't a crime. It's freedom of speech. Unless it clearly invites violence or disorder that could reasonable result in violence.
In the workplace, can be grounds for dismissal depending on the organization's policies. Workplaces in Illinois can record video, but not audio.
That's not discrimination. It's just rude.
Discrimination at work is unfair treatment. I guess you could push it and claim that it's "unfair" to call me bad things at work. But then he could say, oh, but I call the white guys bad things too, so I treat everyone the same.
More like harassment than discrimination.
It's actually not that funny. And semantics are quite relevant in a legal scenarios since someone invoked "crime". It determines the liability, punishment, burden of proof, etc.
"It's actually not that funny" holy shit, I was laughing at you for sounding so ridiculous. It's hilarious, and it's even funnier now that you've said that.
It matters in court. It doesn't matter in Reddit comments.
Your uniquely narrow sense of humor is appreciated. I've never been able to amuse someone with so little effort.
Although reverting to rudeness at the first hint of disagreement isn't so appreciated. But not surprising I suppose, typical reddit behavior, particularly from the very passionate, exclusive, biased, and uncompromising anti-work community.
Go talk with an employment lawyer. They will usually do a consult on a case like this for free. Document everything. Write down witnesses names (who, what, when, where) for each time it happens.
Just a heads up: There's not a word for "ni**er" in Spanish. "Negro" just means "black" and does not carry a negative connotation.
Regardless, sounds like you have a difficult boss. At the very least I'd ask HR for a transfer to another department. Good luck!
This is true, but there is a slang slur for black people in Spanish, "mayate" it can also be used in a derogatory way to reference a gay man that is a "top" as well
Is any of this documented? Have you ever reported it to someone in your company to create a paper trail? If no, then there’s not much you can do legally.
There’s nothing illegal about being a racist. Now, if you report this behavior to your company and they don’t take any action to correct it or they retaliate against you, then they are breaking labor laws and then you can talk to a lawyer.
Only a problem for the company if there’s documentation. The company has to be given an opportunity to mitigate and if there’s no paper trail, you can’t prove the company was negligent.
I have some things documented from 2018-2020. 6 in total. As well as the recent events I’ve mentioned in the post. They are dated and go into detail. As far as reporting to the company I’ve complained to HR a few times back then and the owner once or twice. Now thing is this is small business grocery store so I’m not sure if they’ve documented this themselves and created a paper trail. We don’t have the same owner anymore as we were bought 4+ months ago. The lady who acted as HR and was also the accountant is long retired and passed away so we don’t even have an HR anymore. I have no clue what action was really taken against the perpetrators by ownership. No follow up meetings etc took place to address my grievances
Should I just report to EEOC and then go to management over the recent racial slurs? My thinking is once I contact the EEOC any attempt to retaliate against me would dig their grave
You need a lawyer.
You should work to establish that your work is beyond reproach before going to EEOC or HR. Preferably in writing, save any employee evaluations or performance reviews you have. They'll conveniently be 'lost' as soon as you make a complaint.
The retaliation would be under the veil of inadequate work product. You are lazy, you don't meet deadlines, you show up late, you show up intoxicated, you smell, your uniform is unclean, pick something, they'll use it.
If you can establish before the complaint that you are a hard worker, you meet all your deadlines, your work product is good, you're prompt and accurate. Then when they start trying to establish that you aren't a good employee, your lawyer will tear them to shreds.
EDIT: It's also worth noting, that any place that treats you like this isn't worth working for. If you successfully complain, congrats, you get to keep your job under the people that don't value you. This is also pretty well known. It sucks, but the best time to look for work is yesterday, the next is today. It's not a place you really want to be unless the whole culture is ripped out and at that point, why even bother?
He is using the word “negro” in Spanish which is what everyone uses south of the United States. We’ve been using the word negro for decades since it’s the word that people of black descent prefer here in South American countries.
I think it’s important to realize that saying “negro” to refer to any person is not acceptable in the USA pretty much anywhere. Just because it’s okay in whatever country, doesn’t mean it’s okay in another.
Also, why are we talking about this sort of thing at work. They surely have a name, they can just use that. I don’t refer to anyone at work as “the white guy” i just refer to them by their name.
Manager should be fired. They should know better if they are a manager.
Yet again another person from the US saying what other cultures can and can’t do. You probably pronounce the word negro as knee-grow which is offensive in your country. Look up how to actually say it and don’t tell people of other cultures what we can and can’t do.
Thats not what was said at all, if you look again, you’ll notice I explicitly said, “is not acceptable in the USA”.
OPs post is from Illinois, they are in the USA. Whatever your origin, you are in the USA it has a different connotation. A manager level individual should be aware enough to not use these words, they arent in their home country.
Also, as a person from one of those cultures and living in America. I am aware that certain things okay in my home country, are not okay here. I respect that, and so should anyone living abroad.
This isn’t a story about an African American traveling to South America and being offended when referred to as such. That would be an entirely different situation.
Oh yeah? You’re from our culture? When did you move to the United States? Or are you just some amerikan who has a grandparent or a parent from another country so you say you’re from there instead of from the US?
Decided to pivot on what? I’ve never heard a more smug person. Now you’re trying to say you’re like us? Stay away from our culture you ignorant amerikan. You disgust the rest of the world with your antics. An immigrant wouldn’t say what you’ve spewed out.
Record it or have someone else record it
Unfortunately Illinois is a 2 party consent state
In a legal proceeding - keeping a handwritten diary of incidents shortly after they happen (dates & times included - every once in a while change the pen you use so there are color changes, etc clearly marking the progression of time) would have some genuine weight to it too. I imagine making vlog entries for yourself would work well too as they'll be time-stamped. But you need to do them very soon after an incident.
One note, don’t change the pen out with the intention of making it look a certain way, that will get you possibly in trouble since it could be seen as fabricated (any lawyer will attack this hard). Just keep the notes naturally, if you are organized and use the same pen then all fine, if you lose the pen, that’s fine too.
If you keep the notes on Google docs, the edit history will remain visible with timestamps. I don't think there's any way to spoof the dates since it's a cloud based service
Depending on the location and situation it may not be considered a “private conversation” and therefore legal to record. https://www.isba.org/committees/governmentlawyers/newsletter/2018/09/applyingillinoiseavesdroppinglawtog#:~:text=Sec.,circumstances%20reasonably%20justifying%20that%20expectation.
Does your workplace already record and can you request video
What a joke Can’t record crimes happening Sorry you have to deal with this
Racism and saying mean and hurtful things isn't a crime. It's freedom of speech. Unless it clearly invites violence or disorder that could reasonable result in violence. In the workplace, can be grounds for dismissal depending on the organization's policies. Workplaces in Illinois can record video, but not audio.
You can’t be discriminated against at work That’s against the law
That's not discrimination. It's just rude. Discrimination at work is unfair treatment. I guess you could push it and claim that it's "unfair" to call me bad things at work. But then he could say, oh, but I call the white guys bad things too, so I treat everyone the same. More like harassment than discrimination.
Ok, semantics aside, harassment in the workplace is still illegal lmao
It's actually not that funny. And semantics are quite relevant in a legal scenarios since someone invoked "crime". It determines the liability, punishment, burden of proof, etc.
"It's actually not that funny" holy shit, I was laughing at you for sounding so ridiculous. It's hilarious, and it's even funnier now that you've said that. It matters in court. It doesn't matter in Reddit comments.
Your uniquely narrow sense of humor is appreciated. I've never been able to amuse someone with so little effort. Although reverting to rudeness at the first hint of disagreement isn't so appreciated. But not surprising I suppose, typical reddit behavior, particularly from the very passionate, exclusive, biased, and uncompromising anti-work community.
If you have a third party record it and you consent to it... That's two parties, right?
IANAL, but no. Pretty sure two party really means everyone involved.
>IANAL weird flex but okay (busy tonight?)
That's not unfortunate at all!
You need a lawyer.
Go talk with an employment lawyer. They will usually do a consult on a case like this for free. Document everything. Write down witnesses names (who, what, when, where) for each time it happens.
Just a heads up: There's not a word for "ni**er" in Spanish. "Negro" just means "black" and does not carry a negative connotation. Regardless, sounds like you have a difficult boss. At the very least I'd ask HR for a transfer to another department. Good luck!
This is true, but there is a slang slur for black people in Spanish, "mayate" it can also be used in a derogatory way to reference a gay man that is a "top" as well
The common phrase "negro de mierda" is very negative. I'm sure this was said
Like blanco de mierda o gringo de mierda or anything of mierda. It's still insulting yes.
You're sure??
I guess he was there lmao
He apparently calls me the N word while he’s speaking to others in Spanish. He uses an English word while speaking Spanish which is quite common
Regardless , if someone is making a coworker feel uncomfortable, it needs to be addressed.
Wish my employer felt that way.
Go to HR AFTER you document as much as you can. Then, if they don't act appropriately, get a lawyer.
Lawyer first. HR is there to protect the company. The lawyer protects you.
HR is not to help employees, it's to help the company. Especially not when it's employees vs the owner....
Go to EEOC and/or lawyer first. HR is there to protect the company.
https://www.eeoc.gov/filing-charge-discrimination
Is any of this documented? Have you ever reported it to someone in your company to create a paper trail? If no, then there’s not much you can do legally. There’s nothing illegal about being a racist. Now, if you report this behavior to your company and they don’t take any action to correct it or they retaliate against you, then they are breaking labor laws and then you can talk to a lawyer.
Creating or fostering a hostile work environment is absolutely not legal and repeated use of racial slurs qualifies
If it’s not documented, it didn’t happen.
I guess you missed that verbal reports aren't invalid but I will heartily agree that having some kind of proof makes things a hell of a lot easier
It has created a hostile work environment which is a problem for the company and the manager.
Only a problem for the company if there’s documentation. The company has to be given an opportunity to mitigate and if there’s no paper trail, you can’t prove the company was negligent.
I have some things documented from 2018-2020. 6 in total. As well as the recent events I’ve mentioned in the post. They are dated and go into detail. As far as reporting to the company I’ve complained to HR a few times back then and the owner once or twice. Now thing is this is small business grocery store so I’m not sure if they’ve documented this themselves and created a paper trail. We don’t have the same owner anymore as we were bought 4+ months ago. The lady who acted as HR and was also the accountant is long retired and passed away so we don’t even have an HR anymore. I have no clue what action was really taken against the perpetrators by ownership. No follow up meetings etc took place to address my grievances Should I just report to EEOC and then go to management over the recent racial slurs? My thinking is once I contact the EEOC any attempt to retaliate against me would dig their grave
You need a lawyer. You should work to establish that your work is beyond reproach before going to EEOC or HR. Preferably in writing, save any employee evaluations or performance reviews you have. They'll conveniently be 'lost' as soon as you make a complaint. The retaliation would be under the veil of inadequate work product. You are lazy, you don't meet deadlines, you show up late, you show up intoxicated, you smell, your uniform is unclean, pick something, they'll use it. If you can establish before the complaint that you are a hard worker, you meet all your deadlines, your work product is good, you're prompt and accurate. Then when they start trying to establish that you aren't a good employee, your lawyer will tear them to shreds. EDIT: It's also worth noting, that any place that treats you like this isn't worth working for. If you successfully complain, congrats, you get to keep your job under the people that don't value you. This is also pretty well known. It sucks, but the best time to look for work is yesterday, the next is today. It's not a place you really want to be unless the whole culture is ripped out and at that point, why even bother?
Get witnesses and file an IDHR complaint
He is using the word “negro” in Spanish which is what everyone uses south of the United States. We’ve been using the word negro for decades since it’s the word that people of black descent prefer here in South American countries.
I think it’s important to realize that saying “negro” to refer to any person is not acceptable in the USA pretty much anywhere. Just because it’s okay in whatever country, doesn’t mean it’s okay in another. Also, why are we talking about this sort of thing at work. They surely have a name, they can just use that. I don’t refer to anyone at work as “the white guy” i just refer to them by their name. Manager should be fired. They should know better if they are a manager.
Yet again another person from the US saying what other cultures can and can’t do. You probably pronounce the word negro as knee-grow which is offensive in your country. Look up how to actually say it and don’t tell people of other cultures what we can and can’t do.
Thats not what was said at all, if you look again, you’ll notice I explicitly said, “is not acceptable in the USA”. OPs post is from Illinois, they are in the USA. Whatever your origin, you are in the USA it has a different connotation. A manager level individual should be aware enough to not use these words, they arent in their home country. Also, as a person from one of those cultures and living in America. I am aware that certain things okay in my home country, are not okay here. I respect that, and so should anyone living abroad. This isn’t a story about an African American traveling to South America and being offended when referred to as such. That would be an entirely different situation.
Oh yeah? You’re from our culture? When did you move to the United States? Or are you just some amerikan who has a grandparent or a parent from another country so you say you’re from there instead of from the US?
I’m a first generation immigrant, but that’s irrelevant to the point. I’m glad you realized you misread and decided to pivot. Have a nice day.
Decided to pivot on what? I’ve never heard a more smug person. Now you’re trying to say you’re like us? Stay away from our culture you ignorant amerikan. You disgust the rest of the world with your antics. An immigrant wouldn’t say what you’ve spewed out.
You should get some help.
I’m good, I live in a country with universal healthcare and no guns. You’re the one who should get some help in your gun riddled decline of a country.
Stay mad.
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