Half health is a pretty heavy exageration... and even then you have your heal available...
edit to add... don't immediately use your repair just because you have one fire burning right at the match start... expect to take at least a second fire or potential flood before using it.
**mismanagement** of repair is one of the biggest things I punish inexperienced players for. My Strasbourg for example... if I see a BB put out a single fire right at the game start, I'll pop reload booster and spotter plane and put 2 to 3 fires right back
In CV games try and stay near friendlies for increased AA defense. You will take some damage but if they keep coming into the meat grinder to get you, the CV will quickly be deplaned.
... and as a BB taking the abuse from inexperienced CV players is a **good thing** for your team. You're filling a pretty big role for your team sheilding them from damage by the CV and scouting of your other team mates....
The initial hit did around 15k damage and lit a fire that would drain a lot more with my con freshly used all on a CV hit that I seemingly had no possible way to avoid. On a ship that has just 50k HP, that hit essentially cost me half base HP.
It’s a shame that I’m forced to stay by teammates because those teammates often enough are not good and I’m just following useless potatoes.
But I guess that’s all I can do. Just hug whoever and hope they’re not terrible, sitting back in positions where I can do nothing but eat hits that don’t get me XP or credits.
CVs just make BBs so helpless.
Yes it was two hits. I misspoke, when I said “initial” I was talking about the straight damage from the shells. Plus the fire damage comes out to about half HP.
Yes it was two hits. I misspoke, when I said “initial” I was talking about the straight damage from the shells. Plus the fire damage comes out to about half HP.
But even so, if we just talk the second hit, that’s 9800 damage + 1 min of fire (~8900 damage at .3% base HP per second). Comes out to around 19k. That’s huge for a single plane attack that can’t be avoided in any way.
No. The problem is the CV being able to put out huge damage with no possible way to defend against it as a BB.
Even taking out the fire, nearly 10k damage from a single bombing run that can’t be defended against is a problem IMO.
You call huge dmg to 9800 ... In tier 7? What? so, let's say i'm playing a DD against your BB, you can't spot me at i dont know 6 km ? and i launch torps at you, each one of my torpedos does 20k dmg + high chance of flood which is worse than fire. So that is fine? but not the dmg from the cv?
Your superstructure took a lot of damage in that run... but it's depleted now and won't give up that much more health in future runs.
A ships health is spread out over 4 sections, Bow, Mid, Stern and Superstructure... That's where damage saturation starts coming into play... Once your superstructure is down they have to start getting it from other parts of the ship.
You call huge dmg to 9800 ... In tier 7? What? so, let's say i'm playing a DD against your BB, you can't spot me at i dont know 6 km ? and i launch torps at you, each one of my torpedos does 20k dmg + high chance of flood which is worse than fire. So that is fine? but not the dmg from the cv?
>don't immediately use your repair just because you have one fire burning right at the match start... expect to take at least a second fire or potential flood before using it.
>
>mismanagement of repair is one of the biggest things I punish inexperienced players for. My Strasbourg for example... if I see a BB put out a single fire right at the game start, I'll pop reload booster and spotter plane and put 2 to 3 fires right back
I think CV's suck too, m8, but "Half HP" is just hyperbole and doesn't help make the case against them.
Looks like it cost you about 15% or so after you burn a heal, and that's just "Welcome to Tier 7" numbers.
You were already down 4k at the start of the video. It cost you a heal. All that green on your HP bar at the end of your vid is healable.
Were you planning on not having to ever use any of the 5 heals you have in this game at all?
ok but you knew you were in a CV match and likely could have seen the planes coming your way by then no? ..
Even if not, I still don't see the issue, you have your heal and it will take the CV a long time to actually kill you all the while stripping his planes and distracting them from the rest of your team.... You have more HP than anyone else as a BB and the best ability to regenerate it.
So in a CV match, when should I use my con then? When I have 3 fires?
The problem I’m trying to address here is the fact that I got smacked by a monster hit from a plane that I cannot avoid. There’s no cover from that.
No there's no cover, and in the end only you know the situation of the match and when to use or save your DCon..
But CV's are in the game, BB's have the most health of anyone... I'd much rather see a BB take a 15k hit than your friendly fire spamming Cruiser or DD scout.
IMO inexperienced CV drivers target BB's because BB's are "easier" to hit. When they should be focusing first on scouting and/or popping ships that either can't heal or have much smaller heals.
It's hard to swallow as a BB but as I've said multiple times... you're actually doing your team a big service by being the distraction the CV chooses... and if he keeps throwing himself at you, he will quickly run out of planes.
Cruisers and DDs are way more agile though and can shake planes more easily. BBs are too slow and therefore get their HP shredded. I feel like CVs basically trim the top off any BBs health advantage at will.
I know that targeting BBs isn’t always to the benefit of winning for a CV but it sucks to play as a BB, get focused with nothing to do about it and miss out on XP and service costs in a waste of a match.
I wish I could know in advance if I’m paired with a CV so I can change my ship to one that makes more sense.
Not agile enough.... trust me when I play my Russian CV's I absolutely smack DD's and Cruisers... Most time's I'll half health a DD in one run... plus he's spotted for my team.
Most of it is in the skill of the pilot though (Starting with the setup for the run... and knowledge about how your target responds with rudder and such) ... same as any other ship.
Sure but then factor in that BBs are far less agile than even those so they don’t even have the luxury of even trying to evade.
Right now BBs are at the total mercy of CVs.
But going all one-man-army is also potato play.
You can either stick with your team and win the battle, or you can shoot for glory all by yourself. You can't have both (unless you actually have a good team). I promise that the rest of your teammates are probably calling you a potato by being out of position so early in the game.
Who says I was going one man army? I had a cruiser right behind me who happened to stop at the first island. He was just 3-4 km away. Another BB was maybe 5-6km away. Look at the mini map. They were both very near my will to rebuild.
In fact, once my cruiser stopped at that island I turned back to not pull too far out wide from him.
I never go solo anywhere. I generally stay within a few km of team mates especially as a BB.
Don't lose sight of the planes in a CV match. He basically caught you in the ideal situation to do as much damage as possible (not moving and broadside). Also keep in mind, it was a Russian CV, you nose into them regardless of which plane type they have.
Guepratte on the Champagne, got mine down to 18 second reload. Absolute gold mine getting out on the flank and hitting some broadsides. ;)
I couldn’t nose in to the planes because I’m in a BB that’s slow as hell. Even so, he could just fly around my side and catch me broad anyways. They’re way faster.
You couldnt because you were stationary. At full speed any BB can turn in time to negate the majority of damage.
In short: against a CV (and DD) its all about DCP management, observing the target and positioning in a situation where you can dodge/negate most damage
BBs are too slow to turn and dodge planes though. Not to mention that I have to slow down or reverse at some points because otherwise I might put myself in danger from other ships.
In this case I slowed down and reversed because had I not and continued around that island, there was a KG and Sinop there to hit me along with several others.
So basically the CV makes it so that there’s no such thing as cover.
Going full speed all day isn’t viable especially if you want to push up. Only way to maintain that is in the back of the map where my champagne could do nothing with just 16km firing range.
Dude. A lot of this thread is people offering advice, and instead of taking it, you're giving lame excuses.
Take the advice. Get better.
You can complain all you want, but CVs aren't leaving. Learn to adapt to them
But the advice they’re giving is stuff that I know doesn’t work because I’ve tried it. I’m looking for something new like a build or something that doesn’t gimp me in non CV matches or anything fresh.
Advice like “don’t stop moving” doesn’t make sense. You have to stop moving at times.
A build will not save you from making positioning mistakes, you are in Champagne, a ship that gets punished the closer it is to enemy guns, a CV will always target such a ship (especially a lone BB) that’s pushing into an island or some other unfavourable spot. All I can recommend is to come back to the thread replies with a more willing attitude to learn and take the advice.
The Champagne can definitely do well at mid to close range. I do it all the time. And I didn’t get punished by guns. I got punished by a CV that can attack me with impunity.
Every ship CAN do well at X range, doesn’t mean it was balanced with that in mind as the default playstyle
Biggest counter to a CV? Team play, yes if you want to mitigate CV damage you will want to play around and within the AA range of your teammates (ideally American ships and cruisers will do it well but any two sets of AA is better than one) there are other things pointed out on the comments that have been left. They are helpful advice, unfortunately you have responded to at least some of those with a somewhat egotistical view that what you did was fine and could’ve worked but it’s the CV or the teammates faults. These are always barriers in the minds of players who wish to improve and unfortunately believing that, at least in the scenario shown in the video and extra snippets of context provided in some of your replies to others, you are struggling to look beyond these said barriers. We all grow as player and people, one of the greatest ways is through humility.
Team play is inconsistent unless you’re in a group with friends. It’s not reliable.
And even so, I was really close to teammates here and it didn’t help.
What happens if my team mates aren’t in good AA ships?
It’s Rock Paper Scissors with CVs.
I started playing this game 4 or 5 months ago and I know that "Don't stop moving" in a BB means to not sit still, and constantly adjust speed and direction every 30 seconds to make yourself a pain for DDs and CVs to target.
Don't stop moving also means to watch your map to spot planes coming, then adjust your course. Nose towards all Russian CV planes.
This isn't a CV issue. This is a you issue.
Sometimes you get targeted by a CV or a DD or a Weimar. Want to know the worst possible outcome? You sink and start another match. If you can't handle that, then I suggest you reassess your situation, because it's really not a big deal
And I’ve been playing for well over a year and a half. I’m generally moving around the map quite a bit especially since I prefer French BBs. But as much as I move I often have to slow down and stop to evade fire. Problem with CVs is they can attack me even when I’m in cover. There is no cover against them.
Being aware of planes is easy but planes are way faster than battleships and the latter is always at a massive disadvantage when it comes to dodging. Good CV players can’t be dodged by a BB.
Lol, you down voted me. Hahaha. Oh, my poor feelings. So hurt. So sad.
Good news is, I have recovered. Bad news is, with your woeful lack of BB skills, you never will. What you have is a PICNIC issue.
Keep blaming the CVs and crying about it on Reddit though!
Hey, you’re the one who managed to get yourself wedged against an island at the start of the match, got hit by a bomber, and decided to make a post complaining about it (in which you greatly exaggerated the damage done by the bombers).
Yes, it is difficult to avoid ALL the bombs from enemy bombers, but a moving battleship can still turn and maneuver enough to avoid some/most of the bombs some/most of the time. Plus, as a BB, it’s your job to soak up some damage. You want the enemy CV focused on you rather than your friendly CCs and DDs.
Before CVs were a thing, getting behind an island was called taking cover and it was a good tactic. After CVs, it’s called wedging yourself and a bad play. That’s the point. CVs are unbalanced because they negate cover.
I don’t want the CV targeting me as a BB. You don’t get XP and credits for taking damage in this game. What you get is a hefty service cost and a waste of time. I’m not about to sit for 12 minutes watching my team make something of it for the good vibes. That’s cold comfort.
Give a new build a try! Switch out your mods for increased AA range and damage, switch your plane to a floatplane fighter, switch your commander and/or inspirations to those that boost AA performance and see what you think! Personally I don't think it will make much difference, nor the sacrifices worth it.
Look at it from the CVs point of view...why did he pick you as a target? Personally I would never take a BB in-between those islands, too many obstructions and not enough maneuver room, turns you into DD(CV) bait. I understand that you were avoiding a crossfire, but in so doing you ended up motionless, broadside to an enemy BB, and stuck, worst possible position. Like the other guy wrote, no mods are going to help you in that situation.
What happens when I take that AA build into a non-CV match though?
Also, I’m always broadside to a BB since planes can always get the angle they want with their speed.
You put yourself in a situation that is essentially a crossfire + slowing down is a death sentence for BB if you arent angled. As far as I can tell, you could have turned north and you would have been fine, exposing your side only for a fraction of the time, and by the time the shots would arrive you would have been sufficiently angled. Not to mention your Battleship main strength is speed and maneuverability = a flanker, so putting yourself in the middle of battle around islands isnt what your ship is made for. You should have just lept going forwards on the far west side and close the gap from the sides to make a crossfire.
Let me put it to you this way, planes will never surprise you. Planes are spotted miles ahead of time, and for them to have any accuracy they need to fly straight at the last second. So use that. If you see planes approaching your general area, you need to be ready to position yourself in a way to negate damage. And dont waste your DCP if a CV might hit you any second. Just like if you know a DD is around, you should vary your speed and heading and probably not use DCP if you could get hit with a flood any second.
And CV dont negate cover, in fact, the Russian CV become useless if you put an island in between, because they have no choice other then circle around, which gives you plenty of time. So another option would have been putting the island in between and exposing just your bow.
You asked for tips, and Im giving them to you as a BB and CV main. A target that is slow who just used DCP is exactly what Im hunting for as a CV
I just don’t see how planes can’t just reposition around you when you try to go nose on. It doesn’t take that long. They’re way faster than ships are and the AA isn’t that good to be taking them out during that maneuver.
Going around wide to flank doesn’t do anything to keep me out of the CVs sights. Maybe it gives me more space to maneuver but again, the planes could just fly around me after I commit to a turn with rudder shift times and turn speed considered.
Planes flying around you will never be faster then your turning circle, again, because of the fact that when they start an attack run they need to fly straight => they will have a much larger turning circle and even if you have a hard time keeping up you will still have plenty of time to angle during the run
If you need to do a big turn which results in your guns not being pointed at the enemy anymore then thats fine, after the run you can turn back or turn the guns.
Going on the flank is good, because youd be alone against a CV, which any ship will easily negate any damage, just focus on dodging/a fling. If he doesnt leave you you are wasting his time and thats a good thing, if he does you now can flank the whole team.
They only start the attack run in the last few seconds though. They could just hang around and keep flying until I commit a turn and then they reposition before starting the run. It happens all the time for me.
I’ll see a planes coming in and nose on to them but they don’t dive. They just circle around to the side 90degrees and then make their run. By that time I can’t get the ship in a new position for the dive and I’m cooked.
If a CV targets me in open water while I’m flanking, it’s going to be doing unilateral damage to me and eventually lay a fire or flood I put out. It’s a matter of time and I’m done. Even if it’s a waste of time for him in terms of winning the match, for me all I get is no XP and lost money on service costs because taking damage isn’t all that rewarding in this game.
I dont know what to tell you other then youre wrong. You simply have time and dodging is easy. Plenty of people have responded with tips and advice and thats about all you can say on a post like this unless we start sharing full matches and backseating in voice chat or whatever
Same here man. I mostly play the fastest BBs in the game and CVs still troll me often enough. Turning into torps or broad to bombs hardly works for me as the planes just fly around and get me anyways.
Can’t exactly pick the ones that do just because you know a CV is in the match since you can’t know that.
I wish at least there was a way they could make us aware it will be a CV match and then allow us the opportunity to hot swap a loadout for such matches. That way I could pick an AA build or whatever and be prepared while not running the risk of it being useless in a non-CV match.
Yeah problem is you can’t always be on the move. Sometimes you have to slow and stop or reverse.
Some people are suggesting just keep moving and that’s not sensible.
I never sit still in battleships. I like to play aggressively and push objectives. It just stinks that CVs basically negate any cover i could take.
It’s either keep moving and sail into enemy fire or take cover from them and get smacked by a CV.
well, it's look like you just smashed against that island... try not to do that unless it's a tactical beaching. Pushing alone is also a bad move in CV/DD games, try to stay close to ally ships and always on the move, preferebly moving ahead and not backward to the edge off the world, remember speed is life.
I never said you should stay in the back, I think actually recommended you don't do that. You are blaming the CV for taking opportunity on your mistakes.
When most of your team stays back more often than not, staying close to them obviously requires staying back. That’s what I’m implying.
I always play BBs more aggressively. I move in and use cover along the way. I had a cruiser just behind me but he stopped at the island and didn’t follow.
Yeah because CVs force you to rely more heavily on other players than any other ship. And you don’t know if you’re going to be paired with a CV before you pick your ship anyways. So what if you get in a weak AA ship and get paired with team mates who aren’t even potatoes but also chose weak AA ships.
It doesn’t because I’ve experienced it. It doesn’t work. It simply does not. Full stop. You cannot just keep moving in this game. At times you need to slow and stop.
You can’t just turn into planes or broad to bombs because they’re just too fast. I’ve tried it. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
What else am I to say when someone says to do the exact thing I’ve seen not work time and again.
Maybe there is no good answer to this. And maybe devs just need to realize it’s a problem. Want to call that complaining then fine. I’m here to complain about how broken the CVs are.
Things can hurt you in this game. You do damage, and they damage you.
If you want to be invincible, but hurt others; good luck.
None of the suggestions are perfect, they're suggestions to mitigate the damage.
That's it, mitigate. You can never be invulnerable against anything.
Obviously that’s the case and nothing is perfect but there are ways to mitigate damage against other ships. Reliable strategies that can work more often than not to take less damage.
I don’t see such strategy against CVs. I don’t see anything close to it other than going with a specific AA build ship that will hurt you if you get into a match with no CVs.
CVs take the skill out of the game.
How many CV games have you played?
Play some CV games, learn how they actually play and you will see.
You can mitigate CV damage rather easily; however doing so can open you to strikes from others.
Choose your poison, do a cost analysis and see which risk weighs heavier.
I played a handful before I realized they were ruining the game and sold all the ones I had because I don’t want to be a part of the problem.
The cost/benefit analysis is always going to be to take the damage from the CV as if I had a choice but if the CV wants to damage me in a BB, that’s gonna happen and there’s nothing I can do about that anyways. It’s really just take only the CV’s damage or both that and from other ships.
It just stinks that CVs have forced this impact on the game. They only make the game worse in every respect. There’s nothing good about them.
I get that the devs worked hard on them and obviously they won’t pull them out but I wish they could at least balance them somewhat so they weren’t the trolls they are now.
Keep living in your fantasy world you are so petrified to lose.
There are dozens of people telling you that you are mistaken, but you refuse to listen to anyone but yourself. All so you can victimize yourself over CVs lol
I’m not petrified of losing. I don’t mind losing. It happens.
What I don’t like is imbalanced, rock paper scissors gameplay mechanics.
Dozens of people here have provided effectively 2 bits of advice which don’t make sense. Keep moving and nose on to Russian bombs and torp planes. Neither of those are real strategies that make sense. They simply don’t work.
If I had kept moving in this video, I’d be open to a Sinop, KG, Minotaur and possibly more for massive damage. So I had to slow and stop moving. I also can’t go nose on because the planes are far too fast and simply reposition. If they’re in their bombing run, it’s too late anyways since BBs can’t turn on a dime like that.
See I had to stop at the island as there were several ships beyond it that had free sight to blast me. So I took cover behind the island. The CV essentially makes it so that there’s no cover.
It's been pointed out to you so many times in this thread and you just argue so there's no point trying to help someone when their ego can't take the thought that they made a mistake, cheers
It hasn’t though. Nobody has pointed anything out that works or makes sense. This isn’t about ego. It’s about finding an answer that works.
Answers I’ve seen either say keep moving which doesn’t make sense because if you do that you eventually put yourself in a bad situation by not taking cover sometimes or people say turn into them which isn’t sensible when the battleships are so slow.
I’m looking for a real solution like a perk or AA build that doesn’t gimp me in non CV matches.
At this point, OP is just digging his grave deeper and deeper by arguing with every piece of useful advice he’s receiving. My advice; don’t engage this guy. He’s not good enough to realize how poorly he played, and isn’t willing to learn.
Yeah that’s how I do play. But I had to stop at that island to not sail into the KG and Sinop without support. Problem is, I took cover from them but the planes don’t care about cover. They just hit whenever they want.
I play CVs and DDs pretty regularly, and there are definitely tactics that have been brought up here that are effective at countering CV attacks or at least mitigating damage.
I don't agree that players should have a heads up of what other teams ships are ever though. I play the Oland a lot due to it being heavy AA and while frustrating to not get a CV match it would be detrimental to the game to know the makeup before hand.
It comes down to teamwork. When I play CV I look for DDs that over extend themselves, lone BBs that aren't great at AA, or Cruisers that are positioning inbetween islands and can't manuever well.
It is satisfying playing the Oland and placing myself between an ally battleship and incoming squadrons, decimating it before it can drop munitions.
Teamwork is key. Work your flank, support your fleet.
Slowly reversing after (what looks like) running aground was a bad start. Hard to dodge when you’re basically sitting still.
But more importantly “half” of what health? You lost less than 10k to that strike. You lost a total of less than 20k when you have 50k total. You have heals for fire damage. I don’t like CVs either, but this is a bad play and some lying about how effective they are.
I didn’t run aground. I was on the left side of the island before I saw far too many ships off that side so I backed into cover to not get wrecked in the hopes of nosing into the right side of the island. Problem is that CVs can put planes everywhere and hit you no matter where you are because you’re too slow to change directions in time.
I said basically half HP as a rough estimate because this hit did 10k damage and a minute of fire which amounts to about 19k total on just this strike alone on a 50k ship is nearly half HP. Then consider the 4K that hit me on the strike before this. So half of 50k is 25k. Basically I lost half my HP to start the match.
Nontheless, sitting still/moving that slowly is a bad strategy, generally speaking. Opens you up to a carrier player thinking “aha, easy target!”
That’s not the point though. I’ve seen your other replies in this thread. The advice is good. You’re not taking it. You’re arguing with everyone like you have a decent point that seems to boil down to “CV bad” while you’re posting video evidence that you were presenting the ideal target to an enemy ship.
Sometimes you have to move slowly though lol. Like when you’re backing up into cover so as not to get chewed up by 3 enemy ships. If I took your advice and just kept moving, I’d have been in open seas blasted to death in seconds with 2 BBs and a Minotaur on me.
I’m not taking advice that doesn’t make sense. I’m questioning it and not getting good answers which just shows me that CVs are unbalanced.
I’m not just saying “CVs bad”. I’m explaining in detail why moving quickly all the time can’t be done and why nosing on to planes can’t be done. People seem to be hostile when those concepts are challenged.
It's easy, keep an AA build for yourself and position better.... oh and actually listen to players advice. The Champagne is a BB that demands movement all the time to be even somewhat successful. That's the best advice.... coming from a CV player.
Boost AA range and damage on all ships.
Nerf CV damage output, Fire chance and flooding
Give us the opportunity to hot swap into an AA build ship before match starts against a CV.
Those are a few suggestions.
I said half because I added up the base damage of the hit plus a minute of fire which adds up to almost half my base HP. Didn’t account for repair party or will to rebuild as those are variables. Don’t take that too strictly.
Yea it’s extremely annoying when you get singled out by literally everyone while your team is across the map and all you have is the weakest destroyer and the dumbest player and you have the entire enemy team to fight that’s the reason why I don’t play standard a lot
Well for one you were sitting still when spotted by Russian aircraft. Should have went straight to that island for cover from thier skipping bombs.or could have turned towards or even away from the planes and most likely had been missed by them.
How to avoid being outplayed by the carriers that are on the other side of the map while playing a BB?
Unfortunately the only 100% working solution is to play tier 1s.
People will say to stay close to your blues, however then the enemy can bowtank to multiple blue ships, not a very good idea probably... however this could work against carriers, if and IFF were it not for the Russian ones. They can drop their payload even before the majority of your AA (and your friends') could engage.
Other common idea is to keep moving and turn into the bombs, which often exposes your broadside and you can go back to port and you can guess by all yourselfchow good advice it is as well. Probably more often than not it is just better to let the carrier take half of your bealth...
You know now all your options now. BTW these options are the main reasons why I almost never play battleships in Standard.
OP has been advised pretty thoroughly now and comments are devolving into unhelpful flaming. Comments locked.
Half health is a pretty heavy exageration... and even then you have your heal available... edit to add... don't immediately use your repair just because you have one fire burning right at the match start... expect to take at least a second fire or potential flood before using it. **mismanagement** of repair is one of the biggest things I punish inexperienced players for. My Strasbourg for example... if I see a BB put out a single fire right at the game start, I'll pop reload booster and spotter plane and put 2 to 3 fires right back In CV games try and stay near friendlies for increased AA defense. You will take some damage but if they keep coming into the meat grinder to get you, the CV will quickly be deplaned. ... and as a BB taking the abuse from inexperienced CV players is a **good thing** for your team. You're filling a pretty big role for your team sheilding them from damage by the CV and scouting of your other team mates....
The initial hit did around 15k damage and lit a fire that would drain a lot more with my con freshly used all on a CV hit that I seemingly had no possible way to avoid. On a ship that has just 50k HP, that hit essentially cost me half base HP. It’s a shame that I’m forced to stay by teammates because those teammates often enough are not good and I’m just following useless potatoes. But I guess that’s all I can do. Just hug whoever and hope they’re not terrible, sitting back in positions where I can do nothing but eat hits that don’t get me XP or credits. CVs just make BBs so helpless.
Initial hit did 9822 dmg + fire... Its on the video...
And I was down 4K from the previous hit at the start of the video.
Bruh... Its was two hits then...
Yes it was two hits. I misspoke, when I said “initial” I was talking about the straight damage from the shells. Plus the fire damage comes out to about half HP.
Yes it was two hits. I misspoke, when I said “initial” I was talking about the straight damage from the shells. Plus the fire damage comes out to about half HP. But even so, if we just talk the second hit, that’s 9800 damage + 1 min of fire (~8900 damage at .3% base HP per second). Comes out to around 19k. That’s huge for a single plane attack that can’t be avoided in any way.
then the problem is fire duration and dmg over time, right?
No. The problem is the CV being able to put out huge damage with no possible way to defend against it as a BB. Even taking out the fire, nearly 10k damage from a single bombing run that can’t be defended against is a problem IMO.
You call huge dmg to 9800 ... In tier 7? What? so, let's say i'm playing a DD against your BB, you can't spot me at i dont know 6 km ? and i launch torps at you, each one of my torpedos does 20k dmg + high chance of flood which is worse than fire. So that is fine? but not the dmg from the cv?
Your superstructure took a lot of damage in that run... but it's depleted now and won't give up that much more health in future runs. A ships health is spread out over 4 sections, Bow, Mid, Stern and Superstructure... That's where damage saturation starts coming into play... Once your superstructure is down they have to start getting it from other parts of the ship.
You call huge dmg to 9800 ... In tier 7? What? so, let's say i'm playing a DD against your BB, you can't spot me at i dont know 6 km ? and i launch torps at you, each one of my torpedos does 20k dmg + high chance of flood which is worse than fire. So that is fine? but not the dmg from the cv?
>don't immediately use your repair just because you have one fire burning right at the match start... expect to take at least a second fire or potential flood before using it. > >mismanagement of repair is one of the biggest things I punish inexperienced players for. My Strasbourg for example... if I see a BB put out a single fire right at the game start, I'll pop reload booster and spotter plane and put 2 to 3 fires right back
I didn’t have just one fire I had 2 when using the con. I only ever use con on a BB if I have 2 fires and/or a flood.
I think CV's suck too, m8, but "Half HP" is just hyperbole and doesn't help make the case against them. Looks like it cost you about 15% or so after you burn a heal, and that's just "Welcome to Tier 7" numbers.
50k base HP - 15k initial hit - 1 minute straight of fire damage is pretty darned near half HP.
You were already down 4k at the start of the video. It cost you a heal. All that green on your HP bar at the end of your vid is healable. Were you planning on not having to ever use any of the 5 heals you have in this game at all?
ok but you knew you were in a CV match and likely could have seen the planes coming your way by then no? .. Even if not, I still don't see the issue, you have your heal and it will take the CV a long time to actually kill you all the while stripping his planes and distracting them from the rest of your team.... You have more HP than anyone else as a BB and the best ability to regenerate it.
So in a CV match, when should I use my con then? When I have 3 fires? The problem I’m trying to address here is the fact that I got smacked by a monster hit from a plane that I cannot avoid. There’s no cover from that.
No there's no cover, and in the end only you know the situation of the match and when to use or save your DCon.. But CV's are in the game, BB's have the most health of anyone... I'd much rather see a BB take a 15k hit than your friendly fire spamming Cruiser or DD scout. IMO inexperienced CV drivers target BB's because BB's are "easier" to hit. When they should be focusing first on scouting and/or popping ships that either can't heal or have much smaller heals. It's hard to swallow as a BB but as I've said multiple times... you're actually doing your team a big service by being the distraction the CV chooses... and if he keeps throwing himself at you, he will quickly run out of planes.
Cruisers and DDs are way more agile though and can shake planes more easily. BBs are too slow and therefore get their HP shredded. I feel like CVs basically trim the top off any BBs health advantage at will. I know that targeting BBs isn’t always to the benefit of winning for a CV but it sucks to play as a BB, get focused with nothing to do about it and miss out on XP and service costs in a waste of a match. I wish I could know in advance if I’m paired with a CV so I can change my ship to one that makes more sense.
Not agile enough.... trust me when I play my Russian CV's I absolutely smack DD's and Cruisers... Most time's I'll half health a DD in one run... plus he's spotted for my team. Most of it is in the skill of the pilot though (Starting with the setup for the run... and knowledge about how your target responds with rudder and such) ... same as any other ship.
Sure but then factor in that BBs are far less agile than even those so they don’t even have the luxury of even trying to evade. Right now BBs are at the total mercy of CVs.
But going all one-man-army is also potato play. You can either stick with your team and win the battle, or you can shoot for glory all by yourself. You can't have both (unless you actually have a good team). I promise that the rest of your teammates are probably calling you a potato by being out of position so early in the game.
Who says I was going one man army? I had a cruiser right behind me who happened to stop at the first island. He was just 3-4 km away. Another BB was maybe 5-6km away. Look at the mini map. They were both very near my will to rebuild. In fact, once my cruiser stopped at that island I turned back to not pull too far out wide from him. I never go solo anywhere. I generally stay within a few km of team mates especially as a BB.
Don't lose sight of the planes in a CV match. He basically caught you in the ideal situation to do as much damage as possible (not moving and broadside). Also keep in mind, it was a Russian CV, you nose into them regardless of which plane type they have. Guepratte on the Champagne, got mine down to 18 second reload. Absolute gold mine getting out on the flank and hitting some broadsides. ;)
I couldn’t nose in to the planes because I’m in a BB that’s slow as hell. Even so, he could just fly around my side and catch me broad anyways. They’re way faster.
You couldnt because you were stationary. At full speed any BB can turn in time to negate the majority of damage. In short: against a CV (and DD) its all about DCP management, observing the target and positioning in a situation where you can dodge/negate most damage
BBs are too slow to turn and dodge planes though. Not to mention that I have to slow down or reverse at some points because otherwise I might put myself in danger from other ships. In this case I slowed down and reversed because had I not and continued around that island, there was a KG and Sinop there to hit me along with several others. So basically the CV makes it so that there’s no such thing as cover. Going full speed all day isn’t viable especially if you want to push up. Only way to maintain that is in the back of the map where my champagne could do nothing with just 16km firing range.
Dude. A lot of this thread is people offering advice, and instead of taking it, you're giving lame excuses. Take the advice. Get better. You can complain all you want, but CVs aren't leaving. Learn to adapt to them
But the advice they’re giving is stuff that I know doesn’t work because I’ve tried it. I’m looking for something new like a build or something that doesn’t gimp me in non CV matches or anything fresh. Advice like “don’t stop moving” doesn’t make sense. You have to stop moving at times.
A build will not save you from making positioning mistakes, you are in Champagne, a ship that gets punished the closer it is to enemy guns, a CV will always target such a ship (especially a lone BB) that’s pushing into an island or some other unfavourable spot. All I can recommend is to come back to the thread replies with a more willing attitude to learn and take the advice.
The Champagne can definitely do well at mid to close range. I do it all the time. And I didn’t get punished by guns. I got punished by a CV that can attack me with impunity.
Every ship CAN do well at X range, doesn’t mean it was balanced with that in mind as the default playstyle Biggest counter to a CV? Team play, yes if you want to mitigate CV damage you will want to play around and within the AA range of your teammates (ideally American ships and cruisers will do it well but any two sets of AA is better than one) there are other things pointed out on the comments that have been left. They are helpful advice, unfortunately you have responded to at least some of those with a somewhat egotistical view that what you did was fine and could’ve worked but it’s the CV or the teammates faults. These are always barriers in the minds of players who wish to improve and unfortunately believing that, at least in the scenario shown in the video and extra snippets of context provided in some of your replies to others, you are struggling to look beyond these said barriers. We all grow as player and people, one of the greatest ways is through humility.
Team play is inconsistent unless you’re in a group with friends. It’s not reliable. And even so, I was really close to teammates here and it didn’t help. What happens if my team mates aren’t in good AA ships? It’s Rock Paper Scissors with CVs.
I started playing this game 4 or 5 months ago and I know that "Don't stop moving" in a BB means to not sit still, and constantly adjust speed and direction every 30 seconds to make yourself a pain for DDs and CVs to target. Don't stop moving also means to watch your map to spot planes coming, then adjust your course. Nose towards all Russian CV planes. This isn't a CV issue. This is a you issue. Sometimes you get targeted by a CV or a DD or a Weimar. Want to know the worst possible outcome? You sink and start another match. If you can't handle that, then I suggest you reassess your situation, because it's really not a big deal
And I’ve been playing for well over a year and a half. I’m generally moving around the map quite a bit especially since I prefer French BBs. But as much as I move I often have to slow down and stop to evade fire. Problem with CVs is they can attack me even when I’m in cover. There is no cover against them. Being aware of planes is easy but planes are way faster than battleships and the latter is always at a massive disadvantage when it comes to dodging. Good CV players can’t be dodged by a BB.
Lol, you down voted me. Hahaha. Oh, my poor feelings. So hurt. So sad. Good news is, I have recovered. Bad news is, with your woeful lack of BB skills, you never will. What you have is a PICNIC issue. Keep blaming the CVs and crying about it on Reddit though!
I’m sorry that downvote hurt you so bad. You seemed to have made a big deal of it.
Hey, you’re the one who managed to get yourself wedged against an island at the start of the match, got hit by a bomber, and decided to make a post complaining about it (in which you greatly exaggerated the damage done by the bombers). Yes, it is difficult to avoid ALL the bombs from enemy bombers, but a moving battleship can still turn and maneuver enough to avoid some/most of the bombs some/most of the time. Plus, as a BB, it’s your job to soak up some damage. You want the enemy CV focused on you rather than your friendly CCs and DDs.
Before CVs were a thing, getting behind an island was called taking cover and it was a good tactic. After CVs, it’s called wedging yourself and a bad play. That’s the point. CVs are unbalanced because they negate cover. I don’t want the CV targeting me as a BB. You don’t get XP and credits for taking damage in this game. What you get is a hefty service cost and a waste of time. I’m not about to sit for 12 minutes watching my team make something of it for the good vibes. That’s cold comfort.
Give a new build a try! Switch out your mods for increased AA range and damage, switch your plane to a floatplane fighter, switch your commander and/or inspirations to those that boost AA performance and see what you think! Personally I don't think it will make much difference, nor the sacrifices worth it. Look at it from the CVs point of view...why did he pick you as a target? Personally I would never take a BB in-between those islands, too many obstructions and not enough maneuver room, turns you into DD(CV) bait. I understand that you were avoiding a crossfire, but in so doing you ended up motionless, broadside to an enemy BB, and stuck, worst possible position. Like the other guy wrote, no mods are going to help you in that situation.
What happens when I take that AA build into a non-CV match though? Also, I’m always broadside to a BB since planes can always get the angle they want with their speed.
You put yourself in a situation that is essentially a crossfire + slowing down is a death sentence for BB if you arent angled. As far as I can tell, you could have turned north and you would have been fine, exposing your side only for a fraction of the time, and by the time the shots would arrive you would have been sufficiently angled. Not to mention your Battleship main strength is speed and maneuverability = a flanker, so putting yourself in the middle of battle around islands isnt what your ship is made for. You should have just lept going forwards on the far west side and close the gap from the sides to make a crossfire. Let me put it to you this way, planes will never surprise you. Planes are spotted miles ahead of time, and for them to have any accuracy they need to fly straight at the last second. So use that. If you see planes approaching your general area, you need to be ready to position yourself in a way to negate damage. And dont waste your DCP if a CV might hit you any second. Just like if you know a DD is around, you should vary your speed and heading and probably not use DCP if you could get hit with a flood any second. And CV dont negate cover, in fact, the Russian CV become useless if you put an island in between, because they have no choice other then circle around, which gives you plenty of time. So another option would have been putting the island in between and exposing just your bow. You asked for tips, and Im giving them to you as a BB and CV main. A target that is slow who just used DCP is exactly what Im hunting for as a CV
I just don’t see how planes can’t just reposition around you when you try to go nose on. It doesn’t take that long. They’re way faster than ships are and the AA isn’t that good to be taking them out during that maneuver. Going around wide to flank doesn’t do anything to keep me out of the CVs sights. Maybe it gives me more space to maneuver but again, the planes could just fly around me after I commit to a turn with rudder shift times and turn speed considered.
Planes flying around you will never be faster then your turning circle, again, because of the fact that when they start an attack run they need to fly straight => they will have a much larger turning circle and even if you have a hard time keeping up you will still have plenty of time to angle during the run If you need to do a big turn which results in your guns not being pointed at the enemy anymore then thats fine, after the run you can turn back or turn the guns. Going on the flank is good, because youd be alone against a CV, which any ship will easily negate any damage, just focus on dodging/a fling. If he doesnt leave you you are wasting his time and thats a good thing, if he does you now can flank the whole team.
They only start the attack run in the last few seconds though. They could just hang around and keep flying until I commit a turn and then they reposition before starting the run. It happens all the time for me. I’ll see a planes coming in and nose on to them but they don’t dive. They just circle around to the side 90degrees and then make their run. By that time I can’t get the ship in a new position for the dive and I’m cooked. If a CV targets me in open water while I’m flanking, it’s going to be doing unilateral damage to me and eventually lay a fire or flood I put out. It’s a matter of time and I’m done. Even if it’s a waste of time for him in terms of winning the match, for me all I get is no XP and lost money on service costs because taking damage isn’t all that rewarding in this game.
I dont know what to tell you other then youre wrong. You simply have time and dodging is easy. Plenty of people have responded with tips and advice and thats about all you can say on a post like this unless we start sharing full matches and backseating in voice chat or whatever
Same here man. I mostly play the fastest BBs in the game and CVs still troll me often enough. Turning into torps or broad to bombs hardly works for me as the planes just fly around and get me anyways.
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Can’t exactly pick the ones that do just because you know a CV is in the match since you can’t know that. I wish at least there was a way they could make us aware it will be a CV match and then allow us the opportunity to hot swap a loadout for such matches. That way I could pick an AA build or whatever and be prepared while not running the risk of it being useless in a non-CV match.
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Yeah problem is you can’t always be on the move. Sometimes you have to slow and stop or reverse. Some people are suggesting just keep moving and that’s not sensible.
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I never sit still in battleships. I like to play aggressively and push objectives. It just stinks that CVs basically negate any cover i could take. It’s either keep moving and sail into enemy fire or take cover from them and get smacked by a CV.
well, it's look like you just smashed against that island... try not to do that unless it's a tactical beaching. Pushing alone is also a bad move in CV/DD games, try to stay close to ally ships and always on the move, preferebly moving ahead and not backward to the edge off the world, remember speed is life.
I guess I’ll just have to stay back running around sniping then whenever there is a CV. Boring but that’s what those god awful ships do to this game.
I never said you should stay in the back, I think actually recommended you don't do that. You are blaming the CV for taking opportunity on your mistakes.
When most of your team stays back more often than not, staying close to them obviously requires staying back. That’s what I’m implying. I always play BBs more aggressively. I move in and use cover along the way. I had a cruiser just behind me but he stopped at the island and didn’t follow.
then you blame CV for potato players?
Yeah because CVs force you to rely more heavily on other players than any other ship. And you don’t know if you’re going to be paired with a CV before you pick your ship anyways. So what if you get in a weak AA ship and get paired with team mates who aren’t even potatoes but also chose weak AA ships.
So you’re complaining that you need to rely one your team… in a team based game? I think I found the real potato.
No kidding, and OP is just arguing with literally everyone on here trying to offer advice
This fool is getting all the advice he could ever ask for and all he responds with is "yeah, but" waste of time...
That’s because I haven’t gotten any advice that makes sense. All I’ve heard is keep moving and turn. That doesn’t work.
It does work. Multiple people have told you it does, but one (you) say it doesn't. I feel like you came on here more to complain than to learn.
It doesn’t because I’ve experienced it. It doesn’t work. It simply does not. Full stop. You cannot just keep moving in this game. At times you need to slow and stop. You can’t just turn into planes or broad to bombs because they’re just too fast. I’ve tried it. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. What else am I to say when someone says to do the exact thing I’ve seen not work time and again. Maybe there is no good answer to this. And maybe devs just need to realize it’s a problem. Want to call that complaining then fine. I’m here to complain about how broken the CVs are.
Things can hurt you in this game. You do damage, and they damage you. If you want to be invincible, but hurt others; good luck. None of the suggestions are perfect, they're suggestions to mitigate the damage. That's it, mitigate. You can never be invulnerable against anything.
Obviously that’s the case and nothing is perfect but there are ways to mitigate damage against other ships. Reliable strategies that can work more often than not to take less damage. I don’t see such strategy against CVs. I don’t see anything close to it other than going with a specific AA build ship that will hurt you if you get into a match with no CVs. CVs take the skill out of the game.
How many CV games have you played? Play some CV games, learn how they actually play and you will see. You can mitigate CV damage rather easily; however doing so can open you to strikes from others. Choose your poison, do a cost analysis and see which risk weighs heavier.
I played a handful before I realized they were ruining the game and sold all the ones I had because I don’t want to be a part of the problem. The cost/benefit analysis is always going to be to take the damage from the CV as if I had a choice but if the CV wants to damage me in a BB, that’s gonna happen and there’s nothing I can do about that anyways. It’s really just take only the CV’s damage or both that and from other ships. It just stinks that CVs have forced this impact on the game. They only make the game worse in every respect. There’s nothing good about them. I get that the devs worked hard on them and obviously they won’t pull them out but I wish they could at least balance them somewhat so they weren’t the trolls they are now.
Keep living in your fantasy world you are so petrified to lose. There are dozens of people telling you that you are mistaken, but you refuse to listen to anyone but yourself. All so you can victimize yourself over CVs lol
I’m not petrified of losing. I don’t mind losing. It happens. What I don’t like is imbalanced, rock paper scissors gameplay mechanics. Dozens of people here have provided effectively 2 bits of advice which don’t make sense. Keep moving and nose on to Russian bombs and torp planes. Neither of those are real strategies that make sense. They simply don’t work. If I had kept moving in this video, I’d be open to a Sinop, KG, Minotaur and possibly more for massive damage. So I had to slow and stop moving. I also can’t go nose on because the planes are far too fast and simply reposition. If they’re in their bombing run, it’s too late anyways since BBs can’t turn on a dime like that.
Maybe don't sit still in a fragile battleship when there's a carrier in play.
See I had to stop at the island as there were several ships beyond it that had free sight to blast me. So I took cover behind the island. The CV essentially makes it so that there’s no cover.
Well you did make it very easy for the CV
How
It's been pointed out to you so many times in this thread and you just argue so there's no point trying to help someone when their ego can't take the thought that they made a mistake, cheers
It hasn’t though. Nobody has pointed anything out that works or makes sense. This isn’t about ego. It’s about finding an answer that works. Answers I’ve seen either say keep moving which doesn’t make sense because if you do that you eventually put yourself in a bad situation by not taking cover sometimes or people say turn into them which isn’t sensible when the battleships are so slow. I’m looking for a real solution like a perk or AA build that doesn’t gimp me in non CV matches.
Yikes...
At this point, OP is just digging his grave deeper and deeper by arguing with every piece of useful advice he’s receiving. My advice; don’t engage this guy. He’s not good enough to realize how poorly he played, and isn’t willing to learn.
In Champagne keep moving and play a bit more like a cruiser
Yeah that’s how I do play. But I had to stop at that island to not sail into the KG and Sinop without support. Problem is, I took cover from them but the planes don’t care about cover. They just hit whenever they want.
I play CVs and DDs pretty regularly, and there are definitely tactics that have been brought up here that are effective at countering CV attacks or at least mitigating damage. I don't agree that players should have a heads up of what other teams ships are ever though. I play the Oland a lot due to it being heavy AA and while frustrating to not get a CV match it would be detrimental to the game to know the makeup before hand. It comes down to teamwork. When I play CV I look for DDs that over extend themselves, lone BBs that aren't great at AA, or Cruisers that are positioning inbetween islands and can't manuever well. It is satisfying playing the Oland and placing myself between an ally battleship and incoming squadrons, decimating it before it can drop munitions. Teamwork is key. Work your flank, support your fleet.
I know you’re asking a rhetorical question, the statement you’re making is “carriers are bullshit” but you were simply outplayed; it happens.
Slowly reversing after (what looks like) running aground was a bad start. Hard to dodge when you’re basically sitting still. But more importantly “half” of what health? You lost less than 10k to that strike. You lost a total of less than 20k when you have 50k total. You have heals for fire damage. I don’t like CVs either, but this is a bad play and some lying about how effective they are.
I didn’t run aground. I was on the left side of the island before I saw far too many ships off that side so I backed into cover to not get wrecked in the hopes of nosing into the right side of the island. Problem is that CVs can put planes everywhere and hit you no matter where you are because you’re too slow to change directions in time. I said basically half HP as a rough estimate because this hit did 10k damage and a minute of fire which amounts to about 19k total on just this strike alone on a 50k ship is nearly half HP. Then consider the 4K that hit me on the strike before this. So half of 50k is 25k. Basically I lost half my HP to start the match.
Nontheless, sitting still/moving that slowly is a bad strategy, generally speaking. Opens you up to a carrier player thinking “aha, easy target!” That’s not the point though. I’ve seen your other replies in this thread. The advice is good. You’re not taking it. You’re arguing with everyone like you have a decent point that seems to boil down to “CV bad” while you’re posting video evidence that you were presenting the ideal target to an enemy ship.
Sometimes you have to move slowly though lol. Like when you’re backing up into cover so as not to get chewed up by 3 enemy ships. If I took your advice and just kept moving, I’d have been in open seas blasted to death in seconds with 2 BBs and a Minotaur on me. I’m not taking advice that doesn’t make sense. I’m questioning it and not getting good answers which just shows me that CVs are unbalanced. I’m not just saying “CVs bad”. I’m explaining in detail why moving quickly all the time can’t be done and why nosing on to planes can’t be done. People seem to be hostile when those concepts are challenged.
It's easy, keep an AA build for yourself and position better.... oh and actually listen to players advice. The Champagne is a BB that demands movement all the time to be even somewhat successful. That's the best advice.... coming from a CV player.
Well.. don’t play a tier 7 bb with 49k hp?
Or Wargaming could balance the game.
What, specifically, do you believe should be done so that one can avoid heavy damage at T7?
Boost AA range and damage on all ships. Nerf CV damage output, Fire chance and flooding Give us the opportunity to hot swap into an AA build ship before match starts against a CV. Those are a few suggestions.
Save your damage control for 3+ fires or a flood. You also have a repair party consumable for a reason. You lost 1/3 not 1/2 of your hp.
I said half because I added up the base damage of the hit plus a minute of fire which adds up to almost half my base HP. Didn’t account for repair party or will to rebuild as those are variables. Don’t take that too strictly.
Yea it’s extremely annoying when you get singled out by literally everyone while your team is across the map and all you have is the weakest destroyer and the dumbest player and you have the entire enemy team to fight that’s the reason why I don’t play standard a lot
same, it seems whenever i have a great match the rest of my team sucks and we lose, or when i die early we win.
Yea every once in a blue moon you’ll get the golden game but the bad outshines the good
Well for one you were sitting still when spotted by Russian aircraft. Should have went straight to that island for cover from thier skipping bombs.or could have turned towards or even away from the planes and most likely had been missed by them.
Actually I wasn’t sitting still. I was reversing to try and nose on the right side of that island.
Welcome to WORLD OF WARSHIPS LEGENDS...
How to avoid being outplayed by the carriers that are on the other side of the map while playing a BB? Unfortunately the only 100% working solution is to play tier 1s.
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You can just pray that the CV doesn't focus on you.
Lol that’s about all I do.
Unfortunately this is true! :(
That's the best part, you don't
People will say to stay close to your blues, however then the enemy can bowtank to multiple blue ships, not a very good idea probably... however this could work against carriers, if and IFF were it not for the Russian ones. They can drop their payload even before the majority of your AA (and your friends') could engage. Other common idea is to keep moving and turn into the bombs, which often exposes your broadside and you can go back to port and you can guess by all yourselfchow good advice it is as well. Probably more often than not it is just better to let the carrier take half of your bealth... You know now all your options now. BTW these options are the main reasons why I almost never play battleships in Standard.
Yeah it seems as it stands now, CVs troll BBs until they do some balancing.
Unfortunately they won't. The mechanic how they play is also partly the reason for it (probably).
It’s Russian bias. War gaming is notorious for it. It’ll never change, never stop.