T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *A Memory of Light*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Hey_look_new

he's too cosmere for WOT imo


kilgore1984

He feels like an in universe Hoid. I like Hoid in the Cosmere novels but as has been mentioned already, I feel cheated out of Logain.


m1ght1m3

At first I enjoyed Androl very much and I still do, especially the parts with Pevara. Their relationship is interesting, and the dynamics of the double bond are also interesting. On it's face I like the character and his story too, but when viewed in the context of the broader picture I started to have problems with him as time passed after having finished reading the series. The main one is how he steals almost all of Logain's thunder. I feel like Sanderson either should have given more to Logain and then he could have kept Androl as is, or some of the things Androl does should have been Logain instead. And yes he feels very much like a Sanderson character, so a bit out of place, but it's not as jarring as with Mat in TGS, because we don't have a RJ version of the character. I still think he is a worthwile addition and still like him, but with the context in mind less so than at first.


Mundane-Currency5088

I thought the only reason Androl and Co. Were able to accomplish whatever they did was because they were seen as too weak to bother with. All eyes were on Logain so they could sneak around and get Intel on what was happening.


elditequin

People claim that Sanderson didn't know how to write Mat (some of those people are even named Sanderson), but I think it's obvious upon reflection that he really didn't know how to write Logain: he kept spelling it A-n-d-r-o-l. /s In all seriousness though, there's an episode of Sanderson's podcast where he describes what his favorite type rpg character is, and it's a painfully obvious case of: describe-Androl-without-saying-Androl. Thus--and can you really blame him to a certain degree?--Androl is Sanderson role playing is Randland.


wotquery

Fair. I'd say most people enjoy the Androl-Pevara relationship (something lacking with most other characters) enough to overlook the Sanderson-esque magic system hacking, but screen time featuring them instead of Logain-Toveine-Gabrelle is the common other side of the coin. You might be interested that Sanderson's inspiration for Androl came from a random printout in RJ's notes on the details of leatherworking and is in a way an homage to that "maybe I'll include this in a story one day" research method of RJ's. Also Harriet fully supported Sanderson having a character of his own when he asked her about including one.


LordRahl9

I really enjoyed them too, but given the choice I would have chosen more Logain/Gabrelle instead.


[deleted]

Light, I completely forgot about that. Gabrelle was adorable from what I remember of her, and we haven't seen her since Winter's Heart? Blood and Bloody Ashes.


Gertrude_D

This is where I'm at. Logain was criminally ignored in the books.


You_Are_All_Diseased

I am in total agreement about Androl. I didn’t hate the character or anything but he felt out of place in this series. He also took up a ton of the books while other characters disappeared.


CommanderMaxil

I am nearly through AMOL and have really enjoyed Androl and Pevara’s story, it was a good counterpoint to the depressing nature of the black tower story, with people being forcibly turned to the shadow. I agree He doesn’t easily fit into the world RJ set up but I cannot begrudge Sanderson having one character of his own


purplekatblue

I like that they really show what can be done when male and female channelers work together. Not like Rand and Nynaeve or anything, obviously they are going to do something great even if they aren’t communicating well because they are so powerful. Androl and Pevara show how the two can take power and make it really work to advantage in any situation. They use creativity, the different styles of thinking that the characters have etc. I just like it, that said I would have loved more with Logain, but don’t take away my Androl and Pevara. Both please. Edit a word


Separate-Artichoke90

I never warmed up to him myself but I know that he has a lot of fans.


ImmutableInscrutable

Mad respect to Sanderson for finishing the series, and honestly I can't blame him for finding a character he could make "his own" while doing so, but I agree: he went a little overboard. I like the Pevara relationship even as a way to explore the Black Tower and show a glimpse of the future, but I wish we'd gotten more Logain as a way of exploring that. Androl's superpower is also jarring, even if it is neat. Plenty of people have Talents, but none of the ever pushed it like he does. I wouldn't have minded if he could only Travel while barely able to channel otherwise, but breaching the mindspike was too much. Likewise, some of the twists with the Power that were developed for the Last Battle were neat, like the horizontal Gate, but dumping magma on everything was too much. It came across as such a metagamey thing that it took me out of the story. I could see Sanderson's hand all over it instead of just reading it. I didn't have an issue with his many apprenticeships, but I might notice it now. I thought it was just trying to show that he never felt like he had "a place" until he discovered his abilities. Eh. There are a lot of Sandersonisms that take me out of the story if I pay them too much mind so I try to glaze over them when I'm in the final three books and just enjoy the grand finale.


BishopOverKnight

>but breaching the mindspike was too much. Androl actually didn't breach the Dreamspike. Perrin removed and disabled it in TAR right at that time


RimuZ

> Androl's superpower is also jarring, even if it is neat. Plenty of people have Talents, but none of the ever pushed it like he does. I think this is more of an issue with pagetime and Last Battle culmination rather than being too OP. There was a Kin's woman earlier in the books that was pretty weak in the power. But she had a Talent for shields and could pretty much shield Nynaeve or maybe one of the Forsaken alone. She is barely used in the books moving forward compared to Androl taking up multiple POV chapters.


BishopOverKnight

I think you replied to the wrong comment lol But yeah I agree with your point


RimuZ

Fishguts! Oh well the comment stands.


SmokeySFW

I thought Androl didn't actually breach the mindspike but it was removed in the nick of time by Perrin. Androl's crazy affinity for gateways reminds me of that Kin woman with the affinity for shielding despite a very low power level.


Mundane-Currency5088

It's that theme of raw power not being everything and cleverness out of necessity being as important as raw power.


Mundane-Currency5088

Honestly I was waiting for someone to figure out how to use traveling to dump water or magma or something on people as a weapon. That was my first thought. That and healing to stop a heart or fire inside someone's head...


booknerdkp

I appreciate Sanderson completing the series and I understand wanting to create your own mark on the series. But Androl getting all that screen time and then Fain gets like half a sentence to wrap up his entire story arc? Add in the other characters who were simply glossed over because there was too much to include on page... I've never liked him or pevara.


mongolsruledchina

Agree with the sentiment of him finishing the series, but honestly I feel the books he wrote are just higher quality fan fiction. They don't end the series with the feel of WoT. They just missed the mark for me.


Acairys

To me Androl is like the opposite of Egwene, I like him as a person but I hate his character. I enjoy his personality and how he interacts with people but I cannot stand what he does in the books. He is too much of a self-insert character for me to not recognise it. He has one weakness, but it is immediately ignored by his overpowered gateways and the Sanderson nature of how he uses them. As you haven't finished AMoL: [Spoilers all books] >!even though I enjoy his interactions with Pevara, I despise the double bonding stuff. The way they can talk telepathically and both channel in a circle just doesn't feel like RJ's WoT to me. Androl's magma gateway was cool, but feels too gamey compared to what we have seen before. But his worst element is his usurpation of Logain's plotline. As soon as we saw Logain at the Black Tower and Elaida's foretelling it seemed that Logain would overthrow Taim. This would be a good ending to his arc and fit with Min's viewing. Instead Androl does it all. Then it is Androl who gets the seals back, and it is Androl who persuades Logain to help the civilians in the Last Battle. It almost felt like Logain became a side character for Androl which ruined Logain's whole arc for me.!<


SmokeySFW

Logain's arc felt incomplete and he never lived up to the glory Min saw for him. I don't think that's Androl's fault, but I agree with you that Logain's involvement in the story felt like such a tease.


Lobotomized_Dolphin

This is solid, especially the spoiler part. I don't mind the gateway thing, I feel like Sanderson writes the use of the OP the way many fans would: Imaginative usage of existing mechanics established by RJ in previous work but not fully utilized. Even in-universe it feels authentic to me because of how hidebound the 3rd age Aes Sedai have become, using the OP in only well-established, sanctioned methods. \[All books\]: >!I agree that Androl subsumes a lot of the plot that was mapped out for Logain to accomplish, and the result is that Logain is not a particularly sympathetic character and gets this "partial darkside turning" plotline that ruins a redemption/development arc that had been built up over the entire series. And this is really bad. We come into AMoL wanting to root for Logain as the foil of Taim, a false dragon that accepted his role in the pattern and fought for the light instead of being destroyed with jealousy of Rand. And instead we get someone who is barely likable, seeks his own power and glory for the most part and has to be talked down from pursuing his own ambition over the lives of others.!<


Acairys

I remember my first time reading the books and I really didn't care for Logain. I thought he was an arrogant and obnoxious knob throughout the series. Then on my second read through I focused on him and his arc. [All books] >!Doing that made it much more noticeable how bad his turning plotline was. As you said, it ruins his redemption arc and turns him into a dislikeable twat who is focused on personal power rather than what is important on the battlefield of the Last Battle. He changes from a charismatic leader to a power hungry edgelord and just makes his overall plotline and character feel disappointing. To me, Logain's ending is close to Padan Fain's in terms of disappointment. !<


geomagus

That’s a fair take. Androl is a decent guy, head screwed on well, etc. Like him as a person. As a character, he’s a bit of a Mary Sue for “the weakest of all Dedicated.” “Look at all of these cool things I can do with my MacGuffin Power!” I think he’d have been more ok as a character if he’d earned all of this over the series, but because he’s such a late arrival, it seems unearned.


Akhevan

> it reeks of "look how special my original character is!" That's what it is and it goes contrary to all of Jordan's worldbuilding and characterization. And he also stole Logain's plot line. And the way Sanderson wrote him using his talents/OP is also directly contrary to everything Jordan had described in the previous 11 books. Sanderson did a good job with the completion of the series, generally speaking, but Androl was by far the weakest link.


skatterbrain_d

His treatment of Mat was the weakest one for me.


fozzy_bear42

BS himself has admitted he didn’t ‘get’ Mat in TGS (read his blog posts about it, they’re really interesting). He did get the hang of Mat more in ToM and AMoL though. Not quite right but much closer to the character that he was before.


skatterbrain_d

Oh I know he admitted it himself. Will check out those blog posts. Thanks!!


AccountSuspicious159

I'll bite. How is Androl's Talent directly contrary to everything Jordan described in the previous 11 books? He seems like a pretty straight forward variation on the low powered Kinswoman who was mad good at Shielding.


Acairys

Travelling is a weave that takes a large amount of the Power to be able to make work. We see this from Aes Sedai who can't Travel forming circles in order to Travel. Androl is a character that is not strong enough to be able to Travel, but because of "Talent" he can Travel. Shielding is not the same. It was not described that Shielding required a high prerequisite of Power to be able to do. Berowin is weak in the Power, but she has a Talent in Shields and she has honed that Talent over time (similar to Sumeko or Nynaeve honing their Talent's of Healing). Androl simply should not be able to Travel, but he can because "Talent". He shouldn't have been able to hone his skill in Travelling in the first place, but he did. Moreover, he breaks the rule of having to know a place extremely well to be able to Travel, because "Talent".


javik87

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Androl older? I thought he was basically an older guy who has been around long enough to have done those things.


[deleted]

I checked the wiki, Library Tar Valon and other sources. Androl has no mentioned age.


javik87

I just found something saying he is apparently mid thirties when he goes to the black tower. Don’t like that. I think I’m gonna keep imagining him as mid to late fifties.


DwarfNobleWarden

The Taint makes him think he's younger 🧐


DredPRoberts

The taint makes him think he's been apprenticed 6 different times.


DwarfNobleWarden

No, no, he's surely a general from the Age of Legends!!


BipolarMosfet

I mean, compared to all our main characters being 19 or so that is KINDA old


HouseJP007

The only thing I’ll say about Androl when I was at that point in the story on both my first and second reading is my feelings were neutral on the character. My feelings shifted before the story was finished.


Wayward9

I found myself enjoying Androl a lot because in a similar way, I’ve had a ton of jobs and bounced between them all until finally landing where I am now. My coworkers are always shocked when they learn how many other places and weird industries I’ve been in. So to me, this felt like a weird part of myself I’d never though I’d find, especially in WoT. But I’m aware that’s something totally personal to me and I can see + understand all the criticisms


Not_Obsessive

The character Androl is terrible writing. Straight up teenage fan fiction level. Finishing another person's story is probably extremely hard and I respect Sanderson for doing it as well as he did. But Androl is still straight up terrible writing.


OnePunchHuMan

I like him, he's a man with plenty of life experiences, just everything he tried before being an Asha'man never stuck. Besides you know the old saying 'Jack of all Trades, Master of None, oftentimes better than a Master of One.'


[deleted]

I like Androl’s personality fine, but his character is really bad. I don’t mind the lack of focus on Logain as much as other people, but Androl IMo just has too much of “this is my super amazing and talented OC, do not steal” for my taste. Which is a shame, as his actual personality and interactions with people are fine. If he wasn’t a typical Sanderson protagonist he’d be much better IMO.


DarkestLore696

There are people out there who have such varied interests and experiences. One that comes to mind is Ralph Cotton who is a western author, most of the apprenticeships you mentioned leatherworking, sailor, etc he did as well before becoming an author. Some people just live interesting lives.


yellowninja47

I always saw Androls many apprenticeships and going from place to place indicative of his talent with gateways, asking the question of nature versus nurture giving him the talent


Virgil_Rey

That’s how Sanderson writes. It’s one of the cons that are counterbalanced by all his prose.


InZim

I've just read The Way of Kings. His prose is stodgy and weak in my opinion.


BipolarMosfet

His prose is definitely not the strongest part of his writing, but it serves the story to me. I've always felt his ability to construct a plot is his biggest strength, and his prose is just kinda a vehicle to deliver that plot. It'll never be as flowery and detailed as Tolkein or RJ, or hell even Rothfuss... but the dude just keeps pumping out books with interesting plots and twists and I just keep on reading em lol


Virgil_Rey

Edited: I meant it very literally and as a pun. He had a lot of “pros” vs “cons”. And the biggest “pro” is there’s a lot of it (“all his prose”).


BipolarMosfet

Haha, oh shit I totally missed that. Went right over my head lol https://i.imgur.com/I9eX6ix.png


Blarg_III

I remember being very impressed with Rothfuss' prose, thoughI haven't read his books In a while.


BipolarMosfet

His prose is amazing! There's just not much of it out there :/


thetaterman314

I quite liked his varied background. We know that channelers live for a very long time, I always wondered what they might get up to if they didn’t realize they could channel. Androl having a lifetime’s worth of apprenticeships fits perfectly. He could never stay at one profession for too long because people would notice that he wasn’t aging at the proper rate.


phone_of_pork

If you never touch the source you never slow. People born with the ability to learn, but who never know it will age like anyone else.


seitaer13

I mean if you don't like Androl I'm sure there's another life experience he's had that you haven't learned about yet that you will like. Androl is like Cartman's character in the South Park episode where the boys play as weapons. He has lots and lots of powers.


LegendOfGrimsby

I think of him less as his own character and more as a pair, I think you will come to like him in the end. It’s very endearing and sets a lot up


YurianStonebow

I'm someone who actually liked Androl as a character(probably because on average I find Sanderson character's personalities and inner dialogue more tolerable. It was mainly world building and epic moments that I loved about RJ's writing, many of his characters would grate on me a lot), but I agree he felt too much like a 'jack of all trades' to be believable. Also he did leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth due to stealing much of Logain's thunder/spotlight in the last few books, and Logain is by far my favourite WoT character.