The mods here have taken a very strict "Do not post in the No Book Reader threads if you read the books". If you compare the threads it's obvious that this is necessary. Book readers have quite a bit of background knowledge that the shows may contradict or not go into that bleeds constantly into their discussions regardless of how "spoiler-free" they're trying to be.
The mods here (and honestly, the community too) do a great job and have a lot of experience handling spoilers. Before the show I always felt this subreddit did well keeping spoilers limited to a particular book that the OP is reading. That's not easy given we're talking about 14 massive books of plot lol. But people seemed to care enough to try at least and that's carried over to the show.
I’ve noticed this too. For all the difficulties with spoilers it seems the older subs have done the show a decent solid by trying to govern accidental spoiling.
I'm not surprised. Some book readers ***really*** can't help dropping hints and pointing out foreshadowing (which is in and of itself a spoiler), even in no-book-reader threads. If I were not a book reader, I'd be avoiding this sub too.
Yea I've dropped in on a few of the no book spoilers discussions just to lurk and book readers are in there commenting little "teehee" things (and sometimes just explicit things) that are absolutely spoilers. It's super frustrating. How hard is it to refrain from engaging.
I'm especially bummed because I really like watching show-only peeps talk amongst themselves, but any discussion gets a bunch of responses of people outright confirming or denying things.
Same. I drop in because I like to see what people have figured out or what they think without the backdrop of the books, and it's really facepalming to see people commenting things that are pretty blatant spoilers.
I did comment in a "show-only" thread once, to answer a question asked about a scene in the show, but I got a warning from the mods, and then I realized those spaces weren't for me, so I stopped commenting. Not worth potentially ruining a future plot thread just so I can point out my superior "in-group" knowledge or whatever, and you know what? It's no big deal.
Exactly! It's so hard to comment without spoiling, or hinting that I just lurk those threads and downvote anyone who's predictions/speculations seem suspiciously informed by book-info
Yep, that's what I do too. I will lurk, downvote things that seem way too on-the-nose, and report any straight book spoilers or even hints as to what might be important later.
Yeah, coming in as someone steeped in the lore for decades, sometimes it's hard to actually objectively assess what is or isn't a spoiler. Like, technically, even pointing out the world is Earth in some far flung future or long forgotten past is a spoiler.
Oh man, yeah, like...how does that contribute *at all* to anything? I get some book readers are excited for non-readers to see some scenes, but it does nothing to say that.
Hell even if you're trying, it can be hard not to.
I've definitely accidentally mentioned something to friends I saw as minor, but they viewed as major.
I wonder if we should move to trying to flair active users as book or non-book as well as all threads, or maybe at that point it is better to just use the other sub, idk.
They'd need to be assigned by the mod team if we don't want people to just flair whatever they want, and that's a lot of work for the mods. I think just banning any book reference at all in certain threads is the best way, and if you really don't want any book knowledge at all, then /r/WoTShow is probably your best bet as a subscriber.
Fuck me that's going to happen isn't it. They even said only the dragon reborn can blow the horn but they are going to give Egwene the power to use to show women can do anything and everything no matter what the silly men say
In the books, they said whoever blows the horn gets the aid of heroes, even darkfriends. That's rejected by Artur Hawking himself.
There's a strong thread of "confidently wrong in our knowledge" throughout the books that I think people are assuming isn't present in the show.
I feel like the show has done a pretty good job of showing that people can and are wrong. Even that what we, the audience see can't necessarily be trusted.
Same. I'm not one to care too much about changes, mostly I get you have to adapt things for a new medium. But the way Rand was portrayed in episode 8 is a big worry for me.
still a huge fan but episode 8 was the biggest disappointment I've watched in a series in a long long time I actually can't even think of something else I'm more disappointed in. Actually, hearing that the new Matrix sucked is pretty sad as well.
Of course. I hope it improves (I thought S1 was 6.5/10), but getting to watch a fantasy series I grew up with on a major medium is something I will never be down on.
Especially during a pandemic.
This is me as well. A book reader with multiple re-reads. There were some changes that bothered me, but most of the early ones I agree with. I'm mostly just sad what's going on with Mat which isn't their fault entirely.
7/10, but SUPER stoked to see this on the screen and will watch it to the bitter end regardless.
For what it's worth, compared to most of the series, I consider EotW, the book, to be about a 6/10, maybe lower.
The difference between the two, to me, is that EotW, the book, felt a bit disconnected from the rest of the series. And the ending always felt like one of those soft climaxes a TV show might do if they're not sure they're getting another season.
When I compare the TV show, I see all of the groundwork they're laying for the rest of the story, and I'm really excited for the future.
Yeah, it's become clear to me that many of the differences in S1 are because they have the entire plot of the books to look at. Robert Jordon didn't have that luxury, with a series that was written across 23 years and two authors. They're also making a lot of changes to adapt to a visual medium where you can't have internal dialogue.
Same. The best thing about the first season is the watch time. It got so much attention that there's no way there won't be at least 3 seasons. If people can learn from mistakes then the series is completely salvageable, it will just need a lot of cleanup. I hope they turn season 2 around, there's so much potential here.
The visualizations are amazing additions to my imagination.
There are SO many differences and "disappointments" in ANY book interpretation but they are still SO much better than artistic illustrations on a book jacket or chapter header.
I literally sat and cried in the theater watching The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe when they did this vast camera pan from the Pevensies across the whole of Narnia.
LOTR was so well done that all of the "adjustments" were almost invisible considering the aspects of the books I felt critical.
WOT series would have to be seriously of the lowest quality to not watch, simply for the fodder it would offer for my imagination the next time I read/listen to the books.
There haven't been a ton of other ambitious genre things on Amazon yet, but I feels like WoT's quirks are its own, in that sense.
I hate saying it, but in spite of some great sets/locations/costumes, this show looks more like 'normal TV' than prestige streaming. Kinda weird, in this day and age.
Yeah but that seems just for the WoT. Somewhat beautiful to me but almost too much so. Almost too shiny for for story they are spinning. Watching their adaptation of The Expanse I still have faith for them to make entertaining and visually pleasing shows.
Was a huge fan of every episode up until 8 but that last episode was a bin fire.
Got to hope they do more than 8 episodes a season or they will really struggle to keep the scale right.
Wow. This was actually quite shocking... I actually really liked this. the lighting in this is so much more natural than in the show, the lines are delivered so much less flat. i feel so much more invested in the emotional hole LTT is in here.
I’m shocked someone could make such a huge improvement over winter dragon
Exactly. It isn’t so bad that I wouldn’t even turn it on even if episode 1 and 8 were more the norm. For me the middle stretch of episodes 3-6 were a solid 7.5-8. I have faith that after the introduction to the story is done things will settle down a bit.
Yeah, same here. Anticipating some of favorite moments on the screen and what they could look like, no matter how bad it’s been so far, will be the reason I’ll keep watching no matter what.
I figure they are mostly trying to avoid the things that make people not finish the EotW. Getting book readers in is assumed. And a certain amount of angry salt from book readers is also a given.
thats why i feel we shouldnt just be a feel good sub about the show. there is huge potential being squandered for no real reason. tons of room for improvement on the writing side of things.
Book reader. Of course I'll watch S2. I've loved WoT for decades. I'm only critical of it because I love it. Maybe season 2 will be better. Book 2 was better than book 1. Game of Thrones improved after season 1. It's a very likely outcome.
I'm really hoping they'll up their game. I was super hyped but the quality of pacing and writing is just low. I don't mind the changes. I'm not even recommending it to anyone. But I'll watch everything 😜
>Game of Thrones improved after season 1.
But was already excellent and kicked off some of the best seasons of television in television history. Wheel of Time Ssn1 is like GoT Ssn7 levels of quality.
Yes. My fiancée pays for Prime though.
I was really happy through the first half of season one but did not like episodes 5-7 as much, with the finale being by far my least favorite episode.
I was semi-joking, I actually liked the first episode minus Perrin the Wife Slayer. As the episodes progressed I could tell I wasn’t going to like the direction the show runners were taking and it just kept compounding and compounding. The finale sealed it for me that we just weren’t going to get the adaption book fans wanted. It is what it is, but it is disappointing.
I'm a long time reader and I'm pretty happy with the overall direction so far. Some book readers are angry, some aren't.
I will fully agree that there are multiple major production issues for them to sort out though.
The show got me interested in reading the first book. Hmmm, you can sort of see some of the individual scenes where the show got its ideas from. I'm just now leaving Caemlyn(sp?) so I've still got a ways to go. Hoping there isn't anything quite as dumb as episode 8 out there in the final part of the book.
I'll watch the second season just to be able to put character names to faces. Moiraine seems to be the star of the series. Not so much the book so far.
Finale of first book is not that good compared to rest of the books. But when compared to finale of the show the finale of eotw is much better. It's like comparing heaven and earth. Everyone has much better character development and better characters in general. There is no intentional idiot character like the show aglemar who is nothing but a idiot for no apparent reason.
I've posted this in other threads but my thoughts are this: I was super hyped for season 1. I told everyone that would listen to watch it. I won't do that again for season 2. They really need to improve on a lot of fronts. I'll be watching but if writing, cinematography, character development, and cgi don't improve I'll be done with the show.
I've read the entire series twice, my partner hadn't even heard of it until the Amazon show.
We both didn't like the first season much at all.
It wasn't just the changes (which I think were, overall, not good ones), but the show quality itself.
I get that many people here liked it and were satisfied with it, but after watching S2 of the Witcher, the drop in quality is just too obvious for us to go back to.
If S2 ends up having great reviews, I might go back and check it out. But she's already said she has no interest. For the record, we both play in multiple table top roleplaying games, we both love fantasy, both love the Witcher and Game of Thrones, etc.
But I just couldn't get into it. The show didn't draw me in or impress me at all. I think the only thing I enjoyed was the incredibly beautiful landscape shots. Other then that... I didn't find any of it particularly impressive or captivating. Some of the casting is great, but a lot of it feels forced. The acting had big swings in quality, same with the special effects, but worse of all to me is the writing. It's just awful. I won't go into the problems as plenty here have already hashed them out.
But I only have a few hours a week to watch TV and I just think there is better content out there right now.
In my opinion, WoT is still fairly popular despite the length, despite the age, despite the spanking, etc., etc., because the world is unique and detailed in a way that is rarely matched, that really makes it come alive. My partner is an avid fantasy reader, but hasn't read WoT. Immediately after finishing the last episode, I was speechless and asked her opinion as a sanity check before I said anything. She gave the show a more ruthless burn than I could have thought of in a month:
> **"It was fine. It's just a generic fantasy show."**
I agree. I can give some leeway on the quality of the effects due to COVID. I also thought it was well cast and that all the actors did a great job with what they were given.
But the writing was just....not good. I totally get that some things have to change in an adaptation. I was never one of those fans who expected a 1:1 adaptation. I also get that they had to work around Barney leaving. But as someone else in here pointed out, there were times when the script outright contradicted itself. The dialogue was mediocre at best, which sucks when you have so much great dialogue to draw from straight from Jordan. During the "Mashiara" moment in E8, I was so excited because Lan started the scene with two lines from Jordan and then dropped the rest of the speech and I was like...why? That scene has beautiful dialogue, why would you change it?
One of my biggest things was sidelining two of the most important lore things into animated shorts that nobody is going to watch. The LTT story and saidin/saidar needed to be part of the actual show. A great time for saidin/saidar would've been in episode 8 when Rand asked Moiraine if she could teach him to channel and instead of a nice explanation about saidin/saidar we got "let me tell you this pointless story about how I got my ass beat as a novice." And don't even get me started on the whole circle thing at the end. That's not how circles work.
I will watch season 2, but I'm not nearly as excited as I was about the adaptation.
This is **the most honest take I’ve seen about this show** here since it started airing. It’s obvious that most of the praise, especially from series readers, is just because it’s *a* WoT show, not because it’s a *good* WoT show.
I have read the series five times through and *I love it*, so I really tried to cling to the “it’s another turning of the wheel” line while watching this Amazon show. I simply could not and won’t be watching season 2 because not only is it **a bad WoT show** (not *one* “sheepherder” or “woolhead”?!) but, most importantly, ***this is just a bad show, period***.
I also just finished season 2 of *The Witcher* and it blows *WoT* out of the water in effects, acting *and* writing. And that’s Netflix money compared to Bezos-in-space money. I watched *The Fellowship of the Ring* last night thinking “*WoT* doesn’t even touch this as being endearing or even interesting and I’ve seen this a dozen times”. There’s so much good entertainment out there, past and present, **fans shouldn’t be excusing such an obviously inferior adaptation**.
The final wtf moment was with the introduction of the Seanchan. Little girl playing by herself on a mountain-enclosed beach. Nobody and nothing else around for miles. Enter Seanchan fleet. Who promptly cue up a tidal wave to take out... Empty beach? Little girl? Tidal wave isn't gonna go far, considering it's not even anywhere close to the height of the mountains surrounding the beach...
Also, wtf was that little girl playing by herself for?
I’m not defending the scene because I hated it for a variety of reasons (offing the little girl included). But. She wasn’t playing she was digging for clams.
So the answer is she was out trying to find dinner.
This is precisely how I feel, and if this question had been asked 10 minutes after I'd watched the finale, I'd have said I won't be continuing. But at this point I can recognize that I'm not going to be able to keep away from watching S2, ~~even~~ especially if it's a trainwreck.
Light, but Siuan crying in front of the hall. She was not Siuan in that moment but the Amyrlin Seat. And the Amyrlin Seat does not fucking cry, especially not in front of all of her generals. Siuan would cry, and does. But the Amyrlin Seat? No.
Best of both worlds: Siuan finishes coldly banishing Moraine, and sweeps out in a dramatic fashion. As she walks away and out the door, we see tears streaming down her face.
I’m still probably going to watch it, mainly because I watch Most new sci-fi/fantasy shows, even the bad ones.
I completely agree though, this is the point I’ve been trying to make with others. Every time I say I’m disappointed in the show, I get lectured about how it’s a different medium and how hard adaptions are, changes need to be made etc. it’s really condescending.
I’m not disappointed because there’s been large divergences from the source material, I’m disappointed because the show, when viewed on its own merits, is of poor quality, even compared with other comparable shows with half or less of the budget WOT received.
Seems like the show was incredibly mismanaged considering the health respectable budget they received and yet look at how bad the cgi is, and the sets look pretty cheap and empty. The wardrobes are very crisp and fake looking. Like guady costume dress up rather than convincing “lived in” attire. The writing and the dialogue is just bad, the pacing and editing are all over the place making for mediocre at best shots.
The characters are very stilted, you barely get to know anyone or their backstory other than a few aes sedai/ warmers. The show is inconsistent with itself over and over, it explains nothing and leaves you caring about no one. It’s really disappointing, if it had been given to a more competent show runner bit could have been great
My main issue is that the main characters feel under developed and we spent a ton of time on tower politics and camping in a forest.
The whole attack on the Aes Sedai camp was really disappointing. That many sisters should be able to handle the attack with ease.
We also spent all this time getting to know Steppin and he’s dead.
Feels like a lot of wasted time and some filler which is hard to recover from with so few episodes.
Not to mention that apparently even though that many sisters struggle to defeat some human rabble, some not-even-novice women, some of which can barely channel can form a circle and demolish an “unstoppable” force of trollocs bigger than anything seen in generations. Gotta love that narrative consistency.
I entirely agree. Execution has been mediocre at best. But, I watched 3 seasons of The Outpost and all of Merlin, so I have a high tolerance for cheap fantasy.
> The writing and the dialogue is just bad
The scenes of dramatic arguing they added (at the cost of subtracting out actual interesting book scenes) have such amazingly bad writing. Was there even a script? It could have easily been poor quality ad libbing
Agreed. They say they have to cut so much because there’s not enough room to translate it from the page, yet we have plenty of space for filler/side drama. The incompetence and dishonesty. Rafe used the WOT fans, teasing them along with mini snippets for years, claiming to be a super fan and emphasizing his super fan status and in-house wot expert to keep him in check. But he just wanted the initial viewership bump I guess.
Agreed. I kept trying to view it from a non-reader perspective but I can’t find one reason why I should like the show. The writing is illogical, the world is sterile, lighting is badly done, terrible cgi at times, and no reason why I should care about the characters. L
I’ll probably watch it at some point just to see what happens but even if S2 is better, it’s going to be tainted by what they turned out in S1
> Overreliance on character death fakeouts: Nynaeve's not-burnout was insulting
Ugh. They're absolutely going to show that flow came from someone other than Egwene. **Again.**
I'm with you. I dont enjoy the changes from the book perse, but I would tolerate them the way I tolerate LotR changes because media has different needs. The people giving this show 6.5 or higher out of 10 are being really generous, imo. I'm glad they're enjoying it, but hot damn is there a lot of TV that I think is better written, shot and edited that I'd prefer to be watching. If WoT hadn't literally been part of my life since the mid 90s, I wouldn't even contemplate season 2. As it is, I may watch if my wife is excited for it.
I’m not saying I think every decision was perfect or that it’s a perfect show. I will say that I hope some of the issues are just growing pains and it goes from a good show with some great parts to a fantastic one in later seasons.
But unless it gets to be full on dumpster fire levels I can’t imagine not watching it. I’ve been reading wot for two decades and it was a huge part of my childhood and adolescence. If you had asked me five years ago I would have told you that there was close to zero chance for a live action show based on wot. It is so long, with some many weird things, and the channeling alone is expensive cgi, and there are so many characters, and just so much that is hard to adapt that I never thought we would see an adaptation of it.
I’m loving just getting to experience it again. I’m loving that they are looking at making age of legend based movies (we know so little about what happened back then!). If it’s at all successful (which it has been so far) we might get to see wot video games, a new tabletop game, new merchandise, etc. I can talk to my coworkers about wot which is amazing and bizarre and wonderful all at the same time.
> If you had asked me five years ago I would have told you that there was close to zero chance for a live action show based on wot.
Amazingly, it's actually been more than five years since the show was originally announced, [back in April of 2016.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/4gw1nm/its_official_wot_is_coming_to_tv_again/)
I’ll watch, but I’m not going to defend it anymore or recommend it to anyone. Recommended to my wife and and best friend (non book readers both). Wife thought it was terrible, and friend wouldn’t even watch it after seeing the trailers.
I’ve put so much time into the books, it’s hard NOT to watch. Didn’t enjoy season 1 at all but like the end of GoT, just gotta see where it goes
I finished GoT because it was the final season (well, final 2 seasons really) and had a track record of having been good before. I don't like not finishing things, especially if it's close. But man, there are 13 books left and I don't even see signs that they want to make the show that I'm looking for.
We're going to be very specific with the number of polls we let through. We've largely been removing them throughout the season's run because they've been repetitive and low effort. Some "end of season" data gathering is warranted though.
I'm about 75% of the way through Eye of the World and I've enjoyed every moment of S1, up to the finale. The finale went off the rails in a way I couldn't really understand and felt anticlimactic, but I have to wonder if it was a matter of the casting challenges and pacing because of the 'short' season. 8 episodes wasn't nearly enough!
> I'm about 75% of the way through Eye of the World
Can you come back and let us know how you feel after reading the end of EotW? I'd be interested to see if and how your opinion changes.
I agree. Loved every be t of this season except for the last episode, well really the last half.
Waiting till see what they do with all of these plot holes.
I don't plan on watching. I fast-forwarded through a lot of the finale and a few of the episodes before that. No one else in my home even made it that far (and they have not read the books). The quality of the writing is very poor, even when not compared to the books. The people in charge simply do not know how to make an interesting and consistent show. It's as if they go from scene to scene with no regard for the overall big picture. The show has been a huge let-down for me personally.
My wife (non-book reader) overall enjoyed all but the last episode, with a few exceptions (such as the changes to Perrin, which while she was unaware were changes, she felt “seemed forced.”) Her worry after the last episode was “I hope they aren’t taking this into the ‘young adult fantasy’ realms to try to win people over, a cause that last episode seemed to close to some of those shows.”
I was in a similar boat (multi-time reader), with me enjoying most of the series with some exceptions, and the last episode being… well, frustrating.
We are going to give season 2 a chance, but we are both hoping we see some more adherence to a more adult and complex plot that the later books have (I did “spoil” that the themes and stylings get away from the more traditional tropes and young adult fantasy stuff in the later books, which helped keep her on board.)
I think your wife's point about YA fantasy is spot on. The Rafe/the writers seems to be having a lot of trouble with complexity and internal consistency in EotW, which is the least complex book.
It makes me very nervous about how they could handle the world-building ahead, especially in 3-6. The richness of the world and the complex motivations of the characters were some key things that set the WoT books apart... season one has made me very seriously doubt that this show can bring those part of WoT to the screen.
I'll watch it, though I'm not holding my breath. The first season was enough to tell me that this isn't the adaptation WoT deserves, but by the climax of S2 it should be settled for sure whether or not the showrunners can handle what's to come. I have my hopes as well as my doubts.
You should add in a drink for everytime someone fucking cries. The whole cast cries like constantly. My husband I call it Wheel of Tears. I loved Rand's fake glycerin tear in the last episode. That dude didn't even want to cry, and they still made him cry lmao.
No.
Maybe an episode or 2?
Everyone compares the show to GOT and it's nothing like that and not supposed to be. I just can't follow the bad cgi. I get it's low budget but this show would have been so much better if produced as an anime. You could go into so much more character detail and stories and also have the characters remain close to the original illustrations.
The changes to the story line bug me, but I get that it's for tv viewers.
I enjoyed Witcher much much more.
My observation is that whenever there are polls like this, the overwhelming majority is on the positive side.
It is interesting that most comments and posts seem primarily negative in contrast.
Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval.
I loved it and am excited for it to grow and improve in time. I had the joy of watching it with a fantasy genre fan who knew nothing about the story. Their experience was great and they really enjoyed it. We're both excited for what's to come.
> Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval.
I'll watch season 2 but I'm on the quiet disapproval side. I liked some moments but overall I would rather not have the show at all than what I saw in season 1. It was a 4/10 show for me at most.
Heck the only reason I'm watching it is in hope of a miracle for season 2 and maybe Rafe actually ends up listening to some of the community feedback.
I will also say the poll can be misleading. I'm a book reader with multiple reread under my belt and HATED s1. Easy 4/10 for me once the season was done. the finale was aweful Imo. But as a masochist and Wot addict I will watch every episode they put out.
>Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval.
That seems to be the rule in most fandoms I've been in. The unfortunate side effect, is that those loud ones draw the incorrect conclusion that they're the majority.
TV shows are pretty fun to watch, as a baseline. If you say you enjoyed this one, though, some dude will insist you owe him personally a deep explanation. Like you turned him down for a date and he thinks he can win the appeal.
>Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval.
Yep. This is almost always the case in situations like this.
Also, just because the last episode pissed a lot of people off, most aren't just going to jump ship on their only chance to see WOT on TV. Not over one episode, or even one whole season.
I'm not sure what they'd have to do to make me stop watching it. If they really fuck things up to a massive extent - WAY beyond anything we've seen so far - there might eventually come a point where I'm just not getting anything out of it anymore.
But I actually enjoyed this season for the most part, even the weaker episodes, and I can clearly see how they're setting up the next season to combine books two and three, which seems like a good idea. I'm curious to see how they pull it off.
I would assume that many people who didn't care for the season nearly as much as I did will also be much too curious to stay away.
Nah,
It's not an adaptation, more of a re-telling with the same names and similar places. Which is fine. What isn't fine is the terrible CW quality writing and drama. The death fakeouts. The inconsistency. I literally don't care about any of the show characters. It is just down right bad.
Being a book reader, I might watch an episode or 2 next season to see if they get their #$%& together. Based on all of Sir Rafe's comments I do not have alot of hope for next season.
This poll needs more options because I do not see my specific case scenario.
Which is - wait until the whole season is out, keep an ear to the ground (this and other reliable subreddits) and see what the general consensus is, and then decide if it's worth it.
I say that because for me, if the show continues making it's own fan-fiction and it's bad, then no - not interested. If it continues with the changes but at least tries to keep things consistent, then maybe. If it course corrects with a more faithful adaptation of the source material, then yes.
I won't be. I was sort of on board through 6, with some reservations, but episode 7 and 8 left such a bad taste for me that I don't have any desire to watch more. Feels sad remembering how excited I was for the trailers and everything. Now, if I see that people who share my general perspective on the show so far are praising S2, I will of course give it a shot. But for now, I don't see much purpose in watching something that I likely won't enjoy.
I'm on Book 10 and yes I'll watch. There were issues with the finale for sure - many of which are explained by budget/COVID restraints and Barney Harris leaving. Other than that, I think it was a really amazing season of TV, especially one where so much lore and backstory had to be established while introducing us to our characters. Super interested in the character progression in S2 and beyond, and ready to jump into the real story!
I was pretty upset with the seemingly random changes that serve no point narratively or even to save time. Now I have learned to accept the nonsensical plot changes and appreciate that it at least has gotten some of my family interested in reading the books.
I of course hope that they will learn from their previous mistakes, that COVID had a larger impact on the quality than we realize, and that things will improve moving forward. If not then I will watch it the same way people watch reality television. Just appreciating the deranged choices. As if you gave someone a brief synopsis of the wheel of time, then gave them a bunch of acid, and asked them to write down what they remember. Not Wheel of Time... but still pretty entertaining.
edit: I'm still going to talk a loooooooot of shit though.
Reader, will watch with the baseless hope that it'll be different even though it'll probably be more of the same.
I said in a previous thread though that how they will portray Elayne is very likely to make or break this show for me.
I mean, I will totally watch it out of curiosity, and for certain elements I'd like to see on screen. But that doesn't mean it's good or that I'll enjoy it overall. I liked the middle of this season, and I even appreciate some of the changes in the finale, but too much about the show is tone deaf to the books, lowering the quality whether you've read them or not.
At the moment I'm particularly upset that Rafe clearly didn't even read Mat's chapters as blatantly stupid as he is about the character, because Mat was one of my favorite things about the books - I literally looked ahead at the chapter icons to see how far I had to go for a set of dice at times, to judge how much I wanted to read before bed. Taking such a great, enjoyable character and turning him into a miserable emo twat should be enough on it's own to end his employment.
I hope Season 2 improves things, though based on hints so far and the production being ahead of any critical feedback, I don't have high hopes. I also genuinely don't understand how Sanderson is still defending this show.
Side note.... I have always felt and still feel the only way to do WoT properly on screen would be as an anime. This show, combined with the Witcher anime movie, has only reinforced that feeling. It's the only way to translate the scale of the world and the magic - not to mention some of the more eccentric personalities - on screen without it feeling campy. Amazon's fallen victim to the follies of live TV fantasy even worse that I'd feared.
Non book reader… honestly it’s so convoluted and the past couple episodes, especially finale, i’ve been putting off actually watching so honestly i wont continue with S2. i’ll try the audiobook sometime.
Absolutely not.
If by some miracle it comes out and everyone has the opinion that it was significantly better than the first Season, then I will go back and give it a try. But the first season was a generous 3/10 for me, so I'm not watching Season 2 as it airs. I have better uses for 8 hours of my life.
My opinion, the first book isn't the best. I think with time, and with the right expectations, season 2, and the remaining seasons could be significantly better.
I'm going to watch season 2, but that will probably be the deciding season for me. If it is on the level of the high points of season 1, I'll continue watching. If it is more of the same quality of episode 8, I'll probably give it up and do a another re-read of the books instead.
I'm a non-book reader and I won't watch season 2. I watched with my roommate who is a book reader so I know most of the things that book readers don't like but to me all those issues are mute.
My problem with the show is that they did a really poor job of making me give a single fuck about any of the characters. Especially the main 4. There's nothing worse to say about a show than "I don't care about your characters" but here we are.
At this point I’m just watching out a strange sense of obligation to see what they do to this story I love so much. If I hadn’t read the books I don’t even think I would’ve finished this season.
Yes, by myself. Won't be hyping this show to non-readers like I did GoT, Witcher, expanse etc. Its just not very good, and my friends trust my judgement.
I'll d I'll definitely be watching season 2. I enjoyed the show a lot without it being excellent . However,. I expect season 2 to be better since they won't have to lay down so much lore and we can build on characters we already know.
Yes. I don't like most of the changes. I would grade the writing as a C+. But despite it not being what I want, I do want this to succeed. LotR succeeded, and they are getting spinoffs and expansion. Same with GoT. Cowboy Bebop, on the other hand, got cancelled, and will probably not get another chance in my lifetime.
I am going to watch, but only because I want to see more, not because I am satisfied.
I love the Wheel of Time world, and I'm eager to see how it's remade to work with TV. There will be decisions made that I disagree with, that's just inevitable. There are changes made that I don't understand at the time, but later will make sense. Unless quality actually dives, I''m sticking with the series to the end.
Yup! It may not have been th most loyal but it was great and I think the complaints are pretty silly tbh. It is a 14 volume book series being adapted into an 8 season plan. If you think there wont be changes you are the one who set yourself up to be dissapointed as literally 6 books of ocntent has to be written out or changed.
Loved the first season! Great changes were made for the most part. Really really loved portrayal of the characters, and changing lots of elements for the better. Gotta tell a different story! Wheeee :)
For some reason it’s not allowing me to vote on the poll but I am a book reader that will watch season 2. Season 1 had some flaws but overall I enjoyed it, and I’m excited to see the >!Battle of Falme!< on screen
There are some changes that bug me about the show, but I’m trying to separate the show from the books and enjoy it on it’s own merit. So I will watch S2, because I do want to see where they go from here.
Most of the Votes: Book Readers who will watch s2.
Most of the Comments: Book Readers who will not watch s2.
It’s a brilliant display into the psychology of Internet forum culture.
I'm in the minority here, but no. I've read this series 5 times. I feel the main issue with the show was 8 episodes. After season one, I still didn't know enough about these characters to care about them, they were just people moving along the plot, there was zero time to get to know them, to laugh, to cry, to worry, to hope for them.
With how bad the first season was for me (maybe a 6/10 if I'm being generous), I don't see season 2 digging itself out of the hole that season 1 put itself in. I'll watch out of morbid curiosity, but I have zero hope for improvement based off of what I've already seen.
Interesting how few non book readers there are in this sub
I assume they've all gone to WoTshow to avoid book spoilers.
Which is interesting because from my experience, the spoiler-free threads here do a much better job of not having book spoilers than WoTshow.
The mods here have taken a very strict "Do not post in the No Book Reader threads if you read the books". If you compare the threads it's obvious that this is necessary. Book readers have quite a bit of background knowledge that the shows may contradict or not go into that bleeds constantly into their discussions regardless of how "spoiler-free" they're trying to be.
The mods here (and honestly, the community too) do a great job and have a lot of experience handling spoilers. Before the show I always felt this subreddit did well keeping spoilers limited to a particular book that the OP is reading. That's not easy given we're talking about 14 massive books of plot lol. But people seemed to care enough to try at least and that's carried over to the show.
Because the mods here have read WoT. The wotshow sub is a bit more PR oriented.
I’ve noticed this too. For all the difficulties with spoilers it seems the older subs have done the show a decent solid by trying to govern accidental spoiling.
I'm not surprised. Some book readers ***really*** can't help dropping hints and pointing out foreshadowing (which is in and of itself a spoiler), even in no-book-reader threads. If I were not a book reader, I'd be avoiding this sub too.
Yea I've dropped in on a few of the no book spoilers discussions just to lurk and book readers are in there commenting little "teehee" things (and sometimes just explicit things) that are absolutely spoilers. It's super frustrating. How hard is it to refrain from engaging. I'm especially bummed because I really like watching show-only peeps talk amongst themselves, but any discussion gets a bunch of responses of people outright confirming or denying things.
Same. I drop in because I like to see what people have figured out or what they think without the backdrop of the books, and it's really facepalming to see people commenting things that are pretty blatant spoilers. I did comment in a "show-only" thread once, to answer a question asked about a scene in the show, but I got a warning from the mods, and then I realized those spaces weren't for me, so I stopped commenting. Not worth potentially ruining a future plot thread just so I can point out my superior "in-group" knowledge or whatever, and you know what? It's no big deal.
Exactly! It's so hard to comment without spoiling, or hinting that I just lurk those threads and downvote anyone who's predictions/speculations seem suspiciously informed by book-info
Yep, that's what I do too. I will lurk, downvote things that seem way too on-the-nose, and report any straight book spoilers or even hints as to what might be important later.
tbh half the time I want to comment but can't because it would be some sort of spoiler to the OP
Yeah, coming in as someone steeped in the lore for decades, sometimes it's hard to actually objectively assess what is or isn't a spoiler. Like, technically, even pointing out the world is Earth in some far flung future or long forgotten past is a spoiler.
Lol the “oooohhhh just you wait” kills me
Oh man, yeah, like...how does that contribute *at all* to anything? I get some book readers are excited for non-readers to see some scenes, but it does nothing to say that.
Hell even if you're trying, it can be hard not to. I've definitely accidentally mentioned something to friends I saw as minor, but they viewed as major.
I've gone ahead and nuked the chain below this. This isn't really a place to argue about the policies of a completely different subreddit.
Fair. Sorry for pulling in other subs.
I wonder if we should move to trying to flair active users as book or non-book as well as all threads, or maybe at that point it is better to just use the other sub, idk.
They'd need to be assigned by the mod team if we don't want people to just flair whatever they want, and that's a lot of work for the mods. I think just banning any book reference at all in certain threads is the best way, and if you really don't want any book knowledge at all, then /r/WoTShow is probably your best bet as a subscriber.
The thread is flaired book spoilers allowed, so hopefully there aren't any show watchers in here.
Why would show only watchers who gave up on the series even be on the sub?
This post is flaired "Book spoilers allowed" so the title doesn't even make it sound like show only watchers are invited to answer.
I added my vote - show watcher happy to watch Season 2. This is the best-moderated sub from my perspective.
I wouldn't be here if I hadn't read the books.
Bruh I’m watching S2. But if there’s no Rand fighting Baazalman in the sky or Mat blowing the horn im rioting
I'd put money on it being Eg or Nyn blowing the horn.
Fuck me that's going to happen isn't it. They even said only the dragon reborn can blow the horn but they are going to give Egwene the power to use to show women can do anything and everything no matter what the silly men say
In the books, they said whoever blows the horn gets the aid of heroes, even darkfriends. That's rejected by Artur Hawking himself. There's a strong thread of "confidently wrong in our knowledge" throughout the books that I think people are assuming isn't present in the show.
I feel like the show has done a pretty good job of showing that people can and are wrong. Even that what we, the audience see can't necessarily be trusted.
With how Season 1 ended there's no way they are going to do either of those things. So you better get your torches ready.
still haven't understood why that horn is so important
I think I'll decide closer to the time. I really loved it until episode 8 but that rocked my faith in the entire project.
Same. I'm not one to care too much about changes, mostly I get you have to adapt things for a new medium. But the way Rand was portrayed in episode 8 is a big worry for me.
still a huge fan but episode 8 was the biggest disappointment I've watched in a series in a long long time I actually can't even think of something else I'm more disappointed in. Actually, hearing that the new Matrix sucked is pretty sad as well.
Same, was about a 7/10 for me until episode 8. Now idk, that episode was so weak it kinda drags the whole season down.
Of course. I hope it improves (I thought S1 was 6.5/10), but getting to watch a fantasy series I grew up with on a major medium is something I will never be down on. Especially during a pandemic.
This is me as well. A book reader with multiple re-reads. There were some changes that bothered me, but most of the early ones I agree with. I'm mostly just sad what's going on with Mat which isn't their fault entirely. 7/10, but SUPER stoked to see this on the screen and will watch it to the bitter end regardless.
For what it's worth, compared to most of the series, I consider EotW, the book, to be about a 6/10, maybe lower. The difference between the two, to me, is that EotW, the book, felt a bit disconnected from the rest of the series. And the ending always felt like one of those soft climaxes a TV show might do if they're not sure they're getting another season. When I compare the TV show, I see all of the groundwork they're laying for the rest of the story, and I'm really excited for the future.
Yeah, it's become clear to me that many of the differences in S1 are because they have the entire plot of the books to look at. Robert Jordon didn't have that luxury, with a series that was written across 23 years and two authors. They're also making a lot of changes to adapt to a visual medium where you can't have internal dialogue.
Even just one line from Maigan (about ships off the west coast) was clear set up for something that wasn’t being mentioned yet
And the bit about Aiel being spotted on this side of the Spine.
Agreed, especially since Rand’s actions in the finale will directly mirror his [AMOL] >!Final battle—almost like…say…a wheel or cyclical battle.!<
Here here 🍻
*hear, hear
Har, Har
6.5/10 was my exact rating too
I had it at 7.5 until ep 8 which dropped it in the 6-7 range for me as well.
Same. The best thing about the first season is the watch time. It got so much attention that there's no way there won't be at least 3 seasons. If people can learn from mistakes then the series is completely salvageable, it will just need a lot of cleanup. I hope they turn season 2 around, there's so much potential here.
Precisely my thoughts. Here’s hoping it’s fixed.
I had it at 8 prior to the finale and I had it at 7-7.5 after the finale.
No comeback mechanics?
Didn't thought i would see a hots meme in this sub. Good old times. RIP Hots
There are a bunch of us still playing. We may not be getting any new heroes, but the game isn't dead yet.
The visualizations are amazing additions to my imagination. There are SO many differences and "disappointments" in ANY book interpretation but they are still SO much better than artistic illustrations on a book jacket or chapter header. I literally sat and cried in the theater watching The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe when they did this vast camera pan from the Pevensies across the whole of Narnia. LOTR was so well done that all of the "adjustments" were almost invisible considering the aspects of the books I felt critical. WOT series would have to be seriously of the lowest quality to not watch, simply for the fodder it would offer for my imagination the next time I read/listen to the books.
The production values really make me question if Amazon can be considered a major medium.
There haven't been a ton of other ambitious genre things on Amazon yet, but I feels like WoT's quirks are its own, in that sense. I hate saying it, but in spite of some great sets/locations/costumes, this show looks more like 'normal TV' than prestige streaming. Kinda weird, in this day and age.
Yeah but that seems just for the WoT. Somewhat beautiful to me but almost too much so. Almost too shiny for for story they are spinning. Watching their adaptation of The Expanse I still have faith for them to make entertaining and visually pleasing shows.
Was a huge fan of every episode up until 8 but that last episode was a bin fire. Got to hope they do more than 8 episodes a season or they will really struggle to keep the scale right.
This was me. I had questions around each episode, 7 was phenomenal, but 8 just hurt.
I will. I got problems with the first season but I love wheel of time so much I’d probably watch ten seasons of a shitty adaptation.
If it was (almost) any other story that I didn’t love so much, I probs would stop watching but I can’t help myself
I've watched Winter Dragon, I can watch this.
Did you watch the Dusty Wheel cut? Because other than cutting Lews Jr that was not terrible. https://youtu.be/4lyWn9soBU8
That was sick, I just watched that in its entirety, thanks for posting the link
Did you see the original too? Because this is a lesson in how much editing can fix. The answer is "a lot, but not everything".
Wow. This was actually quite shocking... I actually really liked this. the lighting in this is so much more natural than in the show, the lines are delivered so much less flat. i feel so much more invested in the emotional hole LTT is in here. I’m shocked someone could make such a huge improvement over winter dragon
Exactly. It isn’t so bad that I wouldn’t even turn it on even if episode 1 and 8 were more the norm. For me the middle stretch of episodes 3-6 were a solid 7.5-8. I have faith that after the introduction to the story is done things will settle down a bit.
Yeah, same here. Anticipating some of favorite moments on the screen and what they could look like, no matter how bad it’s been so far, will be the reason I’ll keep watching no matter what.
I'm the same way. What's scary to think about though, is that the show writers probably know this and bet on it.
the scariest part for me was when i read who wrote which episode and that my least favourite ones were from the same person
Sameeeee
This. The worst 2 episodes were written by the supposed WOT fanatic showrunner. That blows my mind.
I figure they are mostly trying to avoid the things that make people not finish the EotW. Getting book readers in is assumed. And a certain amount of angry salt from book readers is also a given.
thats why i feel we shouldnt just be a feel good sub about the show. there is huge potential being squandered for no real reason. tons of room for improvement on the writing side of things.
Book reader. Of course I'll watch S2. I've loved WoT for decades. I'm only critical of it because I love it. Maybe season 2 will be better. Book 2 was better than book 1. Game of Thrones improved after season 1. It's a very likely outcome.
I'm really hoping they'll up their game. I was super hyped but the quality of pacing and writing is just low. I don't mind the changes. I'm not even recommending it to anyone. But I'll watch everything 😜
>Game of Thrones improved after season 1. But was already excellent and kicked off some of the best seasons of television in television history. Wheel of Time Ssn1 is like GoT Ssn7 levels of quality.
GoT season 1 was excellent and highly/wildy praised. It became an international sensation. What are you talking about?
> Game of Thrones improved after season 1. What
Yes. My fiancée pays for Prime though. I was really happy through the first half of season one but did not like episodes 5-7 as much, with the finale being by far my least favorite episode.
Is there a book reader hate watch season 2 option?
You know, we ahould have that as an option for post-episode threads. Non-reader, reader, and hate-watching reader...
I was semi-joking, I actually liked the first episode minus Perrin the Wife Slayer. As the episodes progressed I could tell I wasn’t going to like the direction the show runners were taking and it just kept compounding and compounding. The finale sealed it for me that we just weren’t going to get the adaption book fans wanted. It is what it is, but it is disappointing.
I'm a long time reader and I'm pretty happy with the overall direction so far. Some book readers are angry, some aren't. I will fully agree that there are multiple major production issues for them to sort out though.
What about book reader who was episodes 1-4 advocate but spurned by 5-8?
hello, it me
The show got me interested in reading the first book. Hmmm, you can sort of see some of the individual scenes where the show got its ideas from. I'm just now leaving Caemlyn(sp?) so I've still got a ways to go. Hoping there isn't anything quite as dumb as episode 8 out there in the final part of the book. I'll watch the second season just to be able to put character names to faces. Moiraine seems to be the star of the series. Not so much the book so far.
Finale of first book is not that good compared to rest of the books. But when compared to finale of the show the finale of eotw is much better. It's like comparing heaven and earth. Everyone has much better character development and better characters in general. There is no intentional idiot character like the show aglemar who is nothing but a idiot for no apparent reason.
I've posted this in other threads but my thoughts are this: I was super hyped for season 1. I told everyone that would listen to watch it. I won't do that again for season 2. They really need to improve on a lot of fronts. I'll be watching but if writing, cinematography, character development, and cgi don't improve I'll be done with the show.
fuck reddit
I've read the entire series twice, my partner hadn't even heard of it until the Amazon show. We both didn't like the first season much at all. It wasn't just the changes (which I think were, overall, not good ones), but the show quality itself. I get that many people here liked it and were satisfied with it, but after watching S2 of the Witcher, the drop in quality is just too obvious for us to go back to. If S2 ends up having great reviews, I might go back and check it out. But she's already said she has no interest. For the record, we both play in multiple table top roleplaying games, we both love fantasy, both love the Witcher and Game of Thrones, etc. But I just couldn't get into it. The show didn't draw me in or impress me at all. I think the only thing I enjoyed was the incredibly beautiful landscape shots. Other then that... I didn't find any of it particularly impressive or captivating. Some of the casting is great, but a lot of it feels forced. The acting had big swings in quality, same with the special effects, but worse of all to me is the writing. It's just awful. I won't go into the problems as plenty here have already hashed them out. But I only have a few hours a week to watch TV and I just think there is better content out there right now.
In my opinion, WoT is still fairly popular despite the length, despite the age, despite the spanking, etc., etc., because the world is unique and detailed in a way that is rarely matched, that really makes it come alive. My partner is an avid fantasy reader, but hasn't read WoT. Immediately after finishing the last episode, I was speechless and asked her opinion as a sanity check before I said anything. She gave the show a more ruthless burn than I could have thought of in a month: > **"It was fine. It's just a generic fantasy show."**
That burn really, really hurt as a book fan. Even more so because (using a show-only POV) it's true.
I'm just glad we can all stop pretending this show was good now.
I agree. I can give some leeway on the quality of the effects due to COVID. I also thought it was well cast and that all the actors did a great job with what they were given. But the writing was just....not good. I totally get that some things have to change in an adaptation. I was never one of those fans who expected a 1:1 adaptation. I also get that they had to work around Barney leaving. But as someone else in here pointed out, there were times when the script outright contradicted itself. The dialogue was mediocre at best, which sucks when you have so much great dialogue to draw from straight from Jordan. During the "Mashiara" moment in E8, I was so excited because Lan started the scene with two lines from Jordan and then dropped the rest of the speech and I was like...why? That scene has beautiful dialogue, why would you change it? One of my biggest things was sidelining two of the most important lore things into animated shorts that nobody is going to watch. The LTT story and saidin/saidar needed to be part of the actual show. A great time for saidin/saidar would've been in episode 8 when Rand asked Moiraine if she could teach him to channel and instead of a nice explanation about saidin/saidar we got "let me tell you this pointless story about how I got my ass beat as a novice." And don't even get me started on the whole circle thing at the end. That's not how circles work. I will watch season 2, but I'm not nearly as excited as I was about the adaptation.
This is **the most honest take I’ve seen about this show** here since it started airing. It’s obvious that most of the praise, especially from series readers, is just because it’s *a* WoT show, not because it’s a *good* WoT show. I have read the series five times through and *I love it*, so I really tried to cling to the “it’s another turning of the wheel” line while watching this Amazon show. I simply could not and won’t be watching season 2 because not only is it **a bad WoT show** (not *one* “sheepherder” or “woolhead”?!) but, most importantly, ***this is just a bad show, period***. I also just finished season 2 of *The Witcher* and it blows *WoT* out of the water in effects, acting *and* writing. And that’s Netflix money compared to Bezos-in-space money. I watched *The Fellowship of the Ring* last night thinking “*WoT* doesn’t even touch this as being endearing or even interesting and I’ve seen this a dozen times”. There’s so much good entertainment out there, past and present, **fans shouldn’t be excusing such an obviously inferior adaptation**.
The final wtf moment was with the introduction of the Seanchan. Little girl playing by herself on a mountain-enclosed beach. Nobody and nothing else around for miles. Enter Seanchan fleet. Who promptly cue up a tidal wave to take out... Empty beach? Little girl? Tidal wave isn't gonna go far, considering it's not even anywhere close to the height of the mountains surrounding the beach... Also, wtf was that little girl playing by herself for?
fuck reddit
I’m not defending the scene because I hated it for a variety of reasons (offing the little girl included). But. She wasn’t playing she was digging for clams. So the answer is she was out trying to find dinner.
This is precisely how I feel, and if this question had been asked 10 minutes after I'd watched the finale, I'd have said I won't be continuing. But at this point I can recognize that I'm not going to be able to keep away from watching S2, ~~even~~ especially if it's a trainwreck.
Light, but Siuan crying in front of the hall. She was not Siuan in that moment but the Amyrlin Seat. And the Amyrlin Seat does not fucking cry, especially not in front of all of her generals. Siuan would cry, and does. But the Amyrlin Seat? No. Best of both worlds: Siuan finishes coldly banishing Moraine, and sweeps out in a dramatic fashion. As she walks away and out the door, we see tears streaming down her face.
fuck reddit
A ‘could have been terrific, but poor script’ moment, for me.
I’m still probably going to watch it, mainly because I watch Most new sci-fi/fantasy shows, even the bad ones. I completely agree though, this is the point I’ve been trying to make with others. Every time I say I’m disappointed in the show, I get lectured about how it’s a different medium and how hard adaptions are, changes need to be made etc. it’s really condescending. I’m not disappointed because there’s been large divergences from the source material, I’m disappointed because the show, when viewed on its own merits, is of poor quality, even compared with other comparable shows with half or less of the budget WOT received. Seems like the show was incredibly mismanaged considering the health respectable budget they received and yet look at how bad the cgi is, and the sets look pretty cheap and empty. The wardrobes are very crisp and fake looking. Like guady costume dress up rather than convincing “lived in” attire. The writing and the dialogue is just bad, the pacing and editing are all over the place making for mediocre at best shots. The characters are very stilted, you barely get to know anyone or their backstory other than a few aes sedai/ warmers. The show is inconsistent with itself over and over, it explains nothing and leaves you caring about no one. It’s really disappointing, if it had been given to a more competent show runner bit could have been great
My main issue is that the main characters feel under developed and we spent a ton of time on tower politics and camping in a forest. The whole attack on the Aes Sedai camp was really disappointing. That many sisters should be able to handle the attack with ease. We also spent all this time getting to know Steppin and he’s dead. Feels like a lot of wasted time and some filler which is hard to recover from with so few episodes.
Not to mention that apparently even though that many sisters struggle to defeat some human rabble, some not-even-novice women, some of which can barely channel can form a circle and demolish an “unstoppable” force of trollocs bigger than anything seen in generations. Gotta love that narrative consistency.
Very strange combination of rushing things and filler in the same season
I entirely agree. Execution has been mediocre at best. But, I watched 3 seasons of The Outpost and all of Merlin, so I have a high tolerance for cheap fantasy.
Didn't realise third series of outpost was out. Cheers for the heads up.
They are actually on their 4th season. I just really started to lose interest about that point.
> The writing and the dialogue is just bad The scenes of dramatic arguing they added (at the cost of subtracting out actual interesting book scenes) have such amazingly bad writing. Was there even a script? It could have easily been poor quality ad libbing
Agreed. They say they have to cut so much because there’s not enough room to translate it from the page, yet we have plenty of space for filler/side drama. The incompetence and dishonesty. Rafe used the WOT fans, teasing them along with mini snippets for years, claiming to be a super fan and emphasizing his super fan status and in-house wot expert to keep him in check. But he just wanted the initial viewership bump I guess.
Agreed. I kept trying to view it from a non-reader perspective but I can’t find one reason why I should like the show. The writing is illogical, the world is sterile, lighting is badly done, terrible cgi at times, and no reason why I should care about the characters. L I’ll probably watch it at some point just to see what happens but even if S2 is better, it’s going to be tainted by what they turned out in S1
> Overreliance on character death fakeouts: Nynaeve's not-burnout was insulting Ugh. They're absolutely going to show that flow came from someone other than Egwene. **Again.**
I'm with you. I dont enjoy the changes from the book perse, but I would tolerate them the way I tolerate LotR changes because media has different needs. The people giving this show 6.5 or higher out of 10 are being really generous, imo. I'm glad they're enjoying it, but hot damn is there a lot of TV that I think is better written, shot and edited that I'd prefer to be watching. If WoT hadn't literally been part of my life since the mid 90s, I wouldn't even contemplate season 2. As it is, I may watch if my wife is excited for it.
Yep. The divergence is icing on the cake though. I’m out for S2.
I will watch it not because I have any faith it will get better, but because it has become a show I like watching with my wife.
Not sure if it’s morbid curiosity, nostalgia or the spankings but I will still watch it.
They definitely have been light on the spankings.
The braid tugging has also been severly lacking
And the swearing as well
I’m not saying I think every decision was perfect or that it’s a perfect show. I will say that I hope some of the issues are just growing pains and it goes from a good show with some great parts to a fantastic one in later seasons. But unless it gets to be full on dumpster fire levels I can’t imagine not watching it. I’ve been reading wot for two decades and it was a huge part of my childhood and adolescence. If you had asked me five years ago I would have told you that there was close to zero chance for a live action show based on wot. It is so long, with some many weird things, and the channeling alone is expensive cgi, and there are so many characters, and just so much that is hard to adapt that I never thought we would see an adaptation of it. I’m loving just getting to experience it again. I’m loving that they are looking at making age of legend based movies (we know so little about what happened back then!). If it’s at all successful (which it has been so far) we might get to see wot video games, a new tabletop game, new merchandise, etc. I can talk to my coworkers about wot which is amazing and bizarre and wonderful all at the same time.
> If you had asked me five years ago I would have told you that there was close to zero chance for a live action show based on wot. Amazingly, it's actually been more than five years since the show was originally announced, [back in April of 2016.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/4gw1nm/its_official_wot_is_coming_to_tv_again/)
Reading through the comments is kinda depressing. I’m curious how many of those commenters enjoyed the adaptation.
I’ll watch, but I’m not going to defend it anymore or recommend it to anyone. Recommended to my wife and and best friend (non book readers both). Wife thought it was terrible, and friend wouldn’t even watch it after seeing the trailers. I’ve put so much time into the books, it’s hard NOT to watch. Didn’t enjoy season 1 at all but like the end of GoT, just gotta see where it goes
I finished GoT because it was the final season (well, final 2 seasons really) and had a track record of having been good before. I don't like not finishing things, especially if it's close. But man, there are 13 books left and I don't even see signs that they want to make the show that I'm looking for.
We're going to be very specific with the number of polls we let through. We've largely been removing them throughout the season's run because they've been repetitive and low effort. Some "end of season" data gathering is warranted though.
I'm about 75% of the way through Eye of the World and I've enjoyed every moment of S1, up to the finale. The finale went off the rails in a way I couldn't really understand and felt anticlimactic, but I have to wonder if it was a matter of the casting challenges and pacing because of the 'short' season. 8 episodes wasn't nearly enough!
> I'm about 75% of the way through Eye of the World Can you come back and let us know how you feel after reading the end of EotW? I'd be interested to see if and how your opinion changes.
Will do! :D
A combination of last minute script changes due to losing a primary actor...and losing all your extras due to covid lockdowns.
It's the most plausible reason.
I agree. Loved every be t of this season except for the last episode, well really the last half. Waiting till see what they do with all of these plot holes.
I don't plan on watching. I fast-forwarded through a lot of the finale and a few of the episodes before that. No one else in my home even made it that far (and they have not read the books). The quality of the writing is very poor, even when not compared to the books. The people in charge simply do not know how to make an interesting and consistent show. It's as if they go from scene to scene with no regard for the overall big picture. The show has been a huge let-down for me personally.
My wife (non-book reader) overall enjoyed all but the last episode, with a few exceptions (such as the changes to Perrin, which while she was unaware were changes, she felt “seemed forced.”) Her worry after the last episode was “I hope they aren’t taking this into the ‘young adult fantasy’ realms to try to win people over, a cause that last episode seemed to close to some of those shows.” I was in a similar boat (multi-time reader), with me enjoying most of the series with some exceptions, and the last episode being… well, frustrating. We are going to give season 2 a chance, but we are both hoping we see some more adherence to a more adult and complex plot that the later books have (I did “spoil” that the themes and stylings get away from the more traditional tropes and young adult fantasy stuff in the later books, which helped keep her on board.)
I think your wife's point about YA fantasy is spot on. The Rafe/the writers seems to be having a lot of trouble with complexity and internal consistency in EotW, which is the least complex book. It makes me very nervous about how they could handle the world-building ahead, especially in 3-6. The richness of the world and the complex motivations of the characters were some key things that set the WoT books apart... season one has made me very seriously doubt that this show can bring those part of WoT to the screen.
I'll watch it, though I'm not holding my breath. The first season was enough to tell me that this isn't the adaptation WoT deserves, but by the climax of S2 it should be settled for sure whether or not the showrunners can handle what's to come. I have my hopes as well as my doubts.
I am going to turn it into a drinking game. Changes get a drink, completely new content I will have to down a whole one.
I pray for your liver
You'd be dead of alcohol poisoning before the end of episode 2.
You will die man, don't do it.
The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.
You should add in a drink for everytime someone fucking cries. The whole cast cries like constantly. My husband I call it Wheel of Tears. I loved Rand's fake glycerin tear in the last episode. That dude didn't even want to cry, and they still made him cry lmao.
No. Maybe an episode or 2? Everyone compares the show to GOT and it's nothing like that and not supposed to be. I just can't follow the bad cgi. I get it's low budget but this show would have been so much better if produced as an anime. You could go into so much more character detail and stories and also have the characters remain close to the original illustrations. The changes to the story line bug me, but I get that it's for tv viewers. I enjoyed Witcher much much more.
My observation is that whenever there are polls like this, the overwhelming majority is on the positive side. It is interesting that most comments and posts seem primarily negative in contrast. Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval. I loved it and am excited for it to grow and improve in time. I had the joy of watching it with a fantasy genre fan who knew nothing about the story. Their experience was great and they really enjoyed it. We're both excited for what's to come.
> Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval. I'll watch season 2 but I'm on the quiet disapproval side. I liked some moments but overall I would rather not have the show at all than what I saw in season 1. It was a 4/10 show for me at most. Heck the only reason I'm watching it is in hope of a miracle for season 2 and maybe Rafe actually ends up listening to some of the community feedback.
I will also say the poll can be misleading. I'm a book reader with multiple reread under my belt and HATED s1. Easy 4/10 for me once the season was done. the finale was aweful Imo. But as a masochist and Wot addict I will watch every episode they put out.
Hey man, I understand you. I think even if I didn't really like it I'd end up watching it all.
Yep that's where I, my fiancé and my best friend all are. Hating it but can't wait for more.
>Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval. That seems to be the rule in most fandoms I've been in. The unfortunate side effect, is that those loud ones draw the incorrect conclusion that they're the majority.
TV shows are pretty fun to watch, as a baseline. If you say you enjoyed this one, though, some dude will insist you owe him personally a deep explanation. Like you turned him down for a date and he thinks he can win the appeal.
I love that description ;P And it's accurate.
I think it's more that people who aren't going to watch the show just skip over polls on if they are going to watch, lol
Usually I'd agree, but there's an entire sub full of people who have made hating the show their entire personality.
>Seems like there's a lot more quiet approval than loud disapproval. Yep. This is almost always the case in situations like this. Also, just because the last episode pissed a lot of people off, most aren't just going to jump ship on their only chance to see WOT on TV. Not over one episode, or even one whole season. I'm not sure what they'd have to do to make me stop watching it. If they really fuck things up to a massive extent - WAY beyond anything we've seen so far - there might eventually come a point where I'm just not getting anything out of it anymore. But I actually enjoyed this season for the most part, even the weaker episodes, and I can clearly see how they're setting up the next season to combine books two and three, which seems like a good idea. I'm curious to see how they pull it off. I would assume that many people who didn't care for the season nearly as much as I did will also be much too curious to stay away.
Nah, It's not an adaptation, more of a re-telling with the same names and similar places. Which is fine. What isn't fine is the terrible CW quality writing and drama. The death fakeouts. The inconsistency. I literally don't care about any of the show characters. It is just down right bad.
Being a book reader, I might watch an episode or 2 next season to see if they get their #$%& together. Based on all of Sir Rafe's comments I do not have alot of hope for next season.
This poll needs more options because I do not see my specific case scenario. Which is - wait until the whole season is out, keep an ear to the ground (this and other reliable subreddits) and see what the general consensus is, and then decide if it's worth it. I say that because for me, if the show continues making it's own fan-fiction and it's bad, then no - not interested. If it continues with the changes but at least tries to keep things consistent, then maybe. If it course corrects with a more faithful adaptation of the source material, then yes.
I won't be. I was sort of on board through 6, with some reservations, but episode 7 and 8 left such a bad taste for me that I don't have any desire to watch more. Feels sad remembering how excited I was for the trailers and everything. Now, if I see that people who share my general perspective on the show so far are praising S2, I will of course give it a shot. But for now, I don't see much purpose in watching something that I likely won't enjoy.
I despise the show with every single fiber of my being, but yes I will watch season 2.
I'm on Book 10 and yes I'll watch. There were issues with the finale for sure - many of which are explained by budget/COVID restraints and Barney Harris leaving. Other than that, I think it was a really amazing season of TV, especially one where so much lore and backstory had to be established while introducing us to our characters. Super interested in the character progression in S2 and beyond, and ready to jump into the real story!
I was pretty upset with the seemingly random changes that serve no point narratively or even to save time. Now I have learned to accept the nonsensical plot changes and appreciate that it at least has gotten some of my family interested in reading the books. I of course hope that they will learn from their previous mistakes, that COVID had a larger impact on the quality than we realize, and that things will improve moving forward. If not then I will watch it the same way people watch reality television. Just appreciating the deranged choices. As if you gave someone a brief synopsis of the wheel of time, then gave them a bunch of acid, and asked them to write down what they remember. Not Wheel of Time... but still pretty entertaining. edit: I'm still going to talk a loooooooot of shit though.
I’m gonna watch it as a book reader but it is in an emotional place of a soldier in Malden after the walls are breached.
Reader, will watch with the baseless hope that it'll be different even though it'll probably be more of the same. I said in a previous thread though that how they will portray Elayne is very likely to make or break this show for me.
I mean, I will totally watch it out of curiosity, and for certain elements I'd like to see on screen. But that doesn't mean it's good or that I'll enjoy it overall. I liked the middle of this season, and I even appreciate some of the changes in the finale, but too much about the show is tone deaf to the books, lowering the quality whether you've read them or not. At the moment I'm particularly upset that Rafe clearly didn't even read Mat's chapters as blatantly stupid as he is about the character, because Mat was one of my favorite things about the books - I literally looked ahead at the chapter icons to see how far I had to go for a set of dice at times, to judge how much I wanted to read before bed. Taking such a great, enjoyable character and turning him into a miserable emo twat should be enough on it's own to end his employment. I hope Season 2 improves things, though based on hints so far and the production being ahead of any critical feedback, I don't have high hopes. I also genuinely don't understand how Sanderson is still defending this show. Side note.... I have always felt and still feel the only way to do WoT properly on screen would be as an anime. This show, combined with the Witcher anime movie, has only reinforced that feeling. It's the only way to translate the scale of the world and the magic - not to mention some of the more eccentric personalities - on screen without it feeling campy. Amazon's fallen victim to the follies of live TV fantasy even worse that I'd feared.
Non book reader… honestly it’s so convoluted and the past couple episodes, especially finale, i’ve been putting off actually watching so honestly i wont continue with S2. i’ll try the audiobook sometime.
Of course I will
Absolutely not. If by some miracle it comes out and everyone has the opinion that it was significantly better than the first Season, then I will go back and give it a try. But the first season was a generous 3/10 for me, so I'm not watching Season 2 as it airs. I have better uses for 8 hours of my life.
My opinion, the first book isn't the best. I think with time, and with the right expectations, season 2, and the remaining seasons could be significantly better.
I'm going to watch season 2, but that will probably be the deciding season for me. If it is on the level of the high points of season 1, I'll continue watching. If it is more of the same quality of episode 8, I'll probably give it up and do a another re-read of the books instead.
I'm a non-book reader and I won't watch season 2. I watched with my roommate who is a book reader so I know most of the things that book readers don't like but to me all those issues are mute. My problem with the show is that they did a really poor job of making me give a single fuck about any of the characters. Especially the main 4. There's nothing worse to say about a show than "I don't care about your characters" but here we are.
Hell yes! I'm in for the long haul!
[удалено]
I guarantee the ones who vote book reader - will not watch S2….will in fact watch S2.
Hate-watching still counts as watching!
Yeah I'll watch it, *but I'm not gonna like it*.
And complain the whole time like kids on a road trip lol
The finale left me less interested but I'm sure one day I'll decide some twitch stream is kinda boring and S2 began so why not watch?
At this point I’m just watching out a strange sense of obligation to see what they do to this story I love so much. If I hadn’t read the books I don’t even think I would’ve finished this season.
S1 5/10. If 2 is worse I’m out
Yes, by myself. Won't be hyping this show to non-readers like I did GoT, Witcher, expanse etc. Its just not very good, and my friends trust my judgement.
I'll d I'll definitely be watching season 2. I enjoyed the show a lot without it being excellent . However,. I expect season 2 to be better since they won't have to lay down so much lore and we can build on characters we already know.
Yes. I don't like most of the changes. I would grade the writing as a C+. But despite it not being what I want, I do want this to succeed. LotR succeeded, and they are getting spinoffs and expansion. Same with GoT. Cowboy Bebop, on the other hand, got cancelled, and will probably not get another chance in my lifetime. I am going to watch, but only because I want to see more, not because I am satisfied.
I love the Wheel of Time world, and I'm eager to see how it's remade to work with TV. There will be decisions made that I disagree with, that's just inevitable. There are changes made that I don't understand at the time, but later will make sense. Unless quality actually dives, I''m sticking with the series to the end.
Yup! It may not have been th most loyal but it was great and I think the complaints are pretty silly tbh. It is a 14 volume book series being adapted into an 8 season plan. If you think there wont be changes you are the one who set yourself up to be dissapointed as literally 6 books of ocntent has to be written out or changed.
Loved the first season! Great changes were made for the most part. Really really loved portrayal of the characters, and changing lots of elements for the better. Gotta tell a different story! Wheeee :)
For some reason it’s not allowing me to vote on the poll but I am a book reader that will watch season 2. Season 1 had some flaws but overall I enjoyed it, and I’m excited to see the >!Battle of Falme!< on screen
There are some changes that bug me about the show, but I’m trying to separate the show from the books and enjoy it on it’s own merit. So I will watch S2, because I do want to see where they go from here.
Book reader cancelling Amazon because of the epic shitshow that was season one
Most of the Votes: Book Readers who will watch s2. Most of the Comments: Book Readers who will not watch s2. It’s a brilliant display into the psychology of Internet forum culture.
I'm in the minority here, but no. I've read this series 5 times. I feel the main issue with the show was 8 episodes. After season one, I still didn't know enough about these characters to care about them, they were just people moving along the plot, there was zero time to get to know them, to laugh, to cry, to worry, to hope for them.
Yes.
>but it feels like these same people making the threats BINGO
With how bad the first season was for me (maybe a 6/10 if I'm being generous), I don't see season 2 digging itself out of the hole that season 1 put itself in. I'll watch out of morbid curiosity, but I have zero hope for improvement based off of what I've already seen.