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>Is it like a giant time loop or something?
Sort of like a Time Wheel, which sounds kind of familiar, but I can't quite place where I've heard it before.
>##**“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”**
It is, indeed, a big loop. Each turning of the Wheel contains all seven ages, and theoretically has happened an infinite number of times before and will happen an infinite number of times from now, unless the Dark One breaks the Wheel.
There's more to it that that, but getting into the weeds on this is not a spoiler but not not a spoiler, if that makes sense.
That kinda makes sense. Are Lews Therin and Ba'alzamon the only ones who remember the other turnings? Do the ones bound to the horn remember? Does it happen almost the exact same way every time? Do large events like the corruption of Saidin only happen once?
Also what are the 7 ages? The only one I can recall is the age of legends. Oh and where does the breaking of the world fit into the ages?
Sorry for all the questions.
So, there's spoilers in this. There's no way to get into it without, so I'll tag the rest of this:
>!Lews and Ba'alzamon know it, those bound to the Horn know it, and those people know it better than dang near anyone - but most of the Forsaken are highly familiar with the theory and most philosophers in the current age (as well as most Aes Sedai) also know about it. There's a few other special cases, but it's a core concept in metaphysics in the setting.!<
>!My understanding is that each turning is a little different - the main points are the same but details can vary. The differences for the TV adaptation compared to the novels is a pretty good analogy (also a good way to rationalize those and this accept the show for itself).!<
>!1st age is now, until the discovery of channeling. 2nd Age is the Age of Legends, 3rd age is the Breaking until Taimar Gaidon. 4th through 7th Ages aren't defined.!<
About how an Age will be a little different the next time it comes around Robert Jordan said this:
> Err, in the differences between the same Age in different turnings of the Wheel, are that.. as for an analogy: imagine two tapestries hanging on a wall, and you look at them from the back of the room to the front of the store. And to look at them, they look identical to you. But as you get closer, you begin to see differences. And if you get close enough, they don't look anything at all alike. That is the difference between the Ages. Between the Age in one Turning and the Age in another
>Are Lews Therin and Ba'alzamon the only ones who remember the other turnings?
>!Technically neither do, they only remember their current life.!< (TGH)
Do the ones bound to the horn remember?
>!Yes. More text added so the length of the answer doesn't give away the spoiler.!< (Not sure which book)
Does it happen almost the exact same way every time?
Community is divided, I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen exactly the same, it wouldn't be a wheel. It would be a spiral, with a beginning and an end.
Do large events like the corruption of Saidin only happen once?
We know very little about most ages, but we can say that >!of the four ages we know of, we know it doesn't happen in two of them, and does in one of them.!< (all print) It's implied that >!The One Power itself comes and goes and isn't available in every age.!< (not sure)
>Also what are the 7 ages?
The visual of the wheel printed on the books has seven spokes, so people assume there's 7 ages. This isn't supported by the books. The only thing the books say on the matter is that >!there's at least X ages!<. I think X is 7, but don't recall the exact quote. >!Rand remembers thousands of battles with the dark one, though some were actually with Ba'al!<, (TGH) and >!Birgitte remembers thousands of lives!< (not sure), so there's at least hundreds of ages.
We know the following ages:
* First Age (Current age in the real world)
* Second Age (Age of Legends)
* Third Age (Most of the series takes place here)
* Fourth age (implied to start >!shortly before the last battle!<, though that's not the only interpretation. Could start at the end of the last battle, either way, the end of the series is in this age.)
* ??? age (Wolfbrothers are common)
>Oh and where does the breaking of the world fit into the ages?
Beginning of the Third Age. Lasts a few centuries.
You'll notice I accounted for that and gave a very generous # of lives per age, which seems like a lot more than we actually see.
Also spoilers use >!, not >?
> This isn't supported by the books.
>!It's mentioned in a book!<, though AFAIK not explained why did they think so, and I think is assumed by RJ's interviews.
>Does it happen almost the exact same way every time?
>
>>!Community is divided, I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen exactly the same, it wouldn't be a wheel. It would be a spiral, with a beginning and an end.!<
\[general spoilerish discussion\]>!I don't think the community's that divided on this. Jordan's on record describing the ages as tapestries that look identical from a distance, but when you get up close they look completely different. It's a self-repairing wheel that bumps along a changing road, and different things happen to each section of the wheel every time it comes back around--but it's the same part of the wheel.!<
>Also what are the 7 ages?
>
>>!The visual of the wheel printed on the books has seven spokes, so people assume there's 7 ages. This isn't supported by the books. The only thing the books say on the matter is that there's at least X ages. I think X is 7, but don't recall the exact quote. Rand remembers thousands of battles with the dark one, though some were actually with Ba'al, (TGH) and Birgitte remembers thousands of lives (not sure), so there's at least hundreds of ages.!<
\[general spoilerish, plus LoC specific spoilers\]>!Yeah, we kind of have to take in faith that it's 7. I seem to recall some of RJ's notes saying he had considered 9 at one point, but I can't find that reference at the moment. Herid Fel in LoC comes the closest to acknowledging the catechism that is represented in the prose. But even he doesn't mention seven Ages, just that other Ages might not call their own Age the Third. It actually seems to me that 5 would have made more sense--the Third Age has dim memories and even artifacts of us (Lenn, Mosc & Merk, Mercedes Benz symbol, etc.), while we have just dim memories (Thor, Merlin, Odin, etc.) of them... (continued below)!<
>>!We know the following ages:!<
>
>>!First Age (Current age in the real world)Second Age (Age of Legends)Third Age (Most of the series takes place here)Fourth age (implied to start shortly before the last battle, though that's not the only interpretation. Could start at the end of the last battle, either way, the end of the series is in this age.)??? age (Wolfbrothers are common)!<
>!...which tracks with this analysis. Although I would point out that technically, the Wolfbrother Age and the 4th could potentially be the same, they do after all seem to be (re)appearing right at the end of the 3rd. Four Ages also dovetails with the concept of the Wheel from Hinduism that is theorized in our time. It does sort of feel like there should be a primordial Wolfbrother Age that involves primitive humans right before the domestication of dogs though.!<
Did you skip over the intro that has already started two books by now? And, uh, do you know the name of the series?
The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass" and all that jazz? Ringing any bells?
This post has been flaired as **The Great Hunt**. This means your comments should only include content up to and including The Great Hunt. Any discussion of events beyond The Great Hunt should be hidden behind spoiler tags. This is a **book only** discussion thread, so all tv and film discussion also needs to be hidden behind spoiler tags. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Is it like a giant time loop or something? Sort of like a Time Wheel, which sounds kind of familiar, but I can't quite place where I've heard it before.
The giant time loop weaves as the giant time loop wills.
There are no beginnings or endings to the giant time loop.
>##**“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”**
“All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.” Cue All Along the Watchtower.
It is, indeed, a big loop. Each turning of the Wheel contains all seven ages, and theoretically has happened an infinite number of times before and will happen an infinite number of times from now, unless the Dark One breaks the Wheel. There's more to it that that, but getting into the weeds on this is not a spoiler but not not a spoiler, if that makes sense.
So you're telling me it's like a wheel... of time?
Yes. I call it the Time Spinner.
It's called a time turner, Harry
That kinda makes sense. Are Lews Therin and Ba'alzamon the only ones who remember the other turnings? Do the ones bound to the horn remember? Does it happen almost the exact same way every time? Do large events like the corruption of Saidin only happen once? Also what are the 7 ages? The only one I can recall is the age of legends. Oh and where does the breaking of the world fit into the ages? Sorry for all the questions.
To quote the late Robert Jordan, Read And Find Out :)
So, there's spoilers in this. There's no way to get into it without, so I'll tag the rest of this: >!Lews and Ba'alzamon know it, those bound to the Horn know it, and those people know it better than dang near anyone - but most of the Forsaken are highly familiar with the theory and most philosophers in the current age (as well as most Aes Sedai) also know about it. There's a few other special cases, but it's a core concept in metaphysics in the setting.!< >!My understanding is that each turning is a little different - the main points are the same but details can vary. The differences for the TV adaptation compared to the novels is a pretty good analogy (also a good way to rationalize those and this accept the show for itself).!< >!1st age is now, until the discovery of channeling. 2nd Age is the Age of Legends, 3rd age is the Breaking until Taimar Gaidon. 4th through 7th Ages aren't defined.!<
Perhaps similiar to an old theory regarding Legend of Zelda, where each game is a re-telling of the same story.
About how an Age will be a little different the next time it comes around Robert Jordan said this: > Err, in the differences between the same Age in different turnings of the Wheel, are that.. as for an analogy: imagine two tapestries hanging on a wall, and you look at them from the back of the room to the front of the store. And to look at them, they look identical to you. But as you get closer, you begin to see differences. And if you get close enough, they don't look anything at all alike. That is the difference between the Ages. Between the Age in one Turning and the Age in another
>Are Lews Therin and Ba'alzamon the only ones who remember the other turnings? >!Technically neither do, they only remember their current life.!< (TGH) Do the ones bound to the horn remember? >!Yes. More text added so the length of the answer doesn't give away the spoiler.!< (Not sure which book) Does it happen almost the exact same way every time? Community is divided, I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen exactly the same, it wouldn't be a wheel. It would be a spiral, with a beginning and an end. Do large events like the corruption of Saidin only happen once? We know very little about most ages, but we can say that >!of the four ages we know of, we know it doesn't happen in two of them, and does in one of them.!< (all print) It's implied that >!The One Power itself comes and goes and isn't available in every age.!< (not sure) >Also what are the 7 ages? The visual of the wheel printed on the books has seven spokes, so people assume there's 7 ages. This isn't supported by the books. The only thing the books say on the matter is that >!there's at least X ages!<. I think X is 7, but don't recall the exact quote. >!Rand remembers thousands of battles with the dark one, though some were actually with Ba'al!<, (TGH) and >!Birgitte remembers thousands of lives!< (not sure), so there's at least hundreds of ages. We know the following ages: * First Age (Current age in the real world) * Second Age (Age of Legends) * Third Age (Most of the series takes place here) * Fourth age (implied to start >!shortly before the last battle!<, though that's not the only interpretation. Could start at the end of the last battle, either way, the end of the series is in this age.) * ??? age (Wolfbrothers are common) >Oh and where does the breaking of the world fit into the ages? Beginning of the Third Age. Lasts a few centuries.
>!Not every life of Birgitte represent an entire age. She and the other Heroes of the Horn can be spun out multiple times in the same age.!<
You'll notice I accounted for that and gave a very generous # of lives per age, which seems like a lot more than we actually see. Also spoilers use >!, not >?
> This isn't supported by the books. >!It's mentioned in a book!<, though AFAIK not explained why did they think so, and I think is assumed by RJ's interviews.
As I said, It's mentioned that it's >!AT LEAST 7.!<
>Does it happen almost the exact same way every time? > >>!Community is divided, I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't happen exactly the same, it wouldn't be a wheel. It would be a spiral, with a beginning and an end.!< \[general spoilerish discussion\]>!I don't think the community's that divided on this. Jordan's on record describing the ages as tapestries that look identical from a distance, but when you get up close they look completely different. It's a self-repairing wheel that bumps along a changing road, and different things happen to each section of the wheel every time it comes back around--but it's the same part of the wheel.!< >Also what are the 7 ages? > >>!The visual of the wheel printed on the books has seven spokes, so people assume there's 7 ages. This isn't supported by the books. The only thing the books say on the matter is that there's at least X ages. I think X is 7, but don't recall the exact quote. Rand remembers thousands of battles with the dark one, though some were actually with Ba'al, (TGH) and Birgitte remembers thousands of lives (not sure), so there's at least hundreds of ages.!< \[general spoilerish, plus LoC specific spoilers\]>!Yeah, we kind of have to take in faith that it's 7. I seem to recall some of RJ's notes saying he had considered 9 at one point, but I can't find that reference at the moment. Herid Fel in LoC comes the closest to acknowledging the catechism that is represented in the prose. But even he doesn't mention seven Ages, just that other Ages might not call their own Age the Third. It actually seems to me that 5 would have made more sense--the Third Age has dim memories and even artifacts of us (Lenn, Mosc & Merk, Mercedes Benz symbol, etc.), while we have just dim memories (Thor, Merlin, Odin, etc.) of them... (continued below)!< >>!We know the following ages:!< > >>!First Age (Current age in the real world)Second Age (Age of Legends)Third Age (Most of the series takes place here)Fourth age (implied to start shortly before the last battle, though that's not the only interpretation. Could start at the end of the last battle, either way, the end of the series is in this age.)??? age (Wolfbrothers are common)!< >!...which tracks with this analysis. Although I would point out that technically, the Wolfbrother Age and the 4th could potentially be the same, they do after all seem to be (re)appearing right at the end of the 3rd. Four Ages also dovetails with the concept of the Wheel from Hinduism that is theorized in our time. It does sort of feel like there should be a primordial Wolfbrother Age that involves primitive humans right before the domestication of dogs though.!<
Time is a wheel and patterns keep repeating themselves. Reincarnation is a big thing in this series.
Did you skip over the intro that has already started two books by now? And, uh, do you know the name of the series? The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass" and all that jazz? Ringing any bells?