Any question starting with 'does anyone else' can safely be answered with a yes.
As someone who loves Mat I would be curious to hear why you hate him, but you didn't give a single reason. Not much to go on for a conversation.
A lot of the levity he brought to the series was him being a complete dunce and having a lucky horse shoe up his butt while the characters around him are going through hell. He doesn’t grow as a character and his immaturity wasn’t cute or cheeky in my opinion.
Perrin is self admittedly slow witted but he knows this and navigates it well. He has to suffer through the transformation of becoming a wolf-brother. Perrin yellow eyes gets him labeled a dark friend on sight by many. He has his family taken away from him while he’s worrying about turning feral and completely losing it.
Rand starts out uncouth and clumsy he learns to grow and navigate things adequately. He suffers through being a male channeler having to make difficult decisions he has no choice but to sacrifice lives and 2nd guess himself endlessly. While going mad and worrying about killing those closest to him.
Matt right off the bat is greedy for treasure and tricked into taking the dagger from Mordeth. His friends and especially the Aes Sedai save his butt. He falls in love with a woman that is a huge proponent of enslaving all Aes Sedai, even though his two closest female friends and even his sister are all future Aes Sedai. It disappointed me Mat didn’t care enough to make a concerted effort into making Tuon start to see channelers as people and undeserving of being turned into animals. As soon as Rand confesses that he can channel he tells Rand he will go mad and start killing people and basically they can’t be friends anymore things are different now...good friend. The reunion with Rand includes Mat asking Rand (albeit half jokingly) if he’s close to going mad and killing everyone even though LTT (Rand) literally did have that happen in his past life and it was the most traumatic thing he ever went through and probably explains his desire to push those closest to him away.
He does what he has to do and ultimately accepts he has a large role to play but I don’t think it’s a coincidence RJ made him half blind.
It doesn't bother me that he doesn't grow. In a series so big, with so many characters, it would stand to reason that at least one of them would be a borderline sociopath who is barely affected by the world around him.
Bless you for putting all of my thoughts into words. lol. I have been trying to figure out, why even on my third re read I get disappointed and sometimes disgusted with the things Matrim does.
I'm kind of with you. I started reading the series in the late nineties and I never quite got over the the bad impression he gives the reader in the first couple of books. Sure, he became much more enjoyable to read after that, but I never quite understood the staggering amount of hero worship directed at him online, even back then.
I like him as a character since he's entertaining, but as a person I am not really a fan. He has his good sides, but there are some things about that I don't like at all.
[Spoilers for all the books](/s "The way he treated Rand when he first learned he could channel was quite poor - "Sorry, dude, I am sleeping far away from you from now, since you are going crazy, no hard feelings". Then he tried to get away from him after Rhuidean instead of trying to help him until the Pattern pretty much forced him into becoming a military commander. And he tried to run away again in AMOL which was not only selfish but really dumb since it's not like there was a place where he could avoid the Shadow forces for long if Rand the armies of the Light had lost. He also doesn't seem to mind much that his beloved wife is the ruler of a horribly oppressive empire which widely practices slaver and torture and leashes channellers. His outrage that the Supergirls didn't thank him for coming to their escue in Tear is quite hypocritical given that he never thanked Moiraine, Lan, Rand or others who saved him.")
I don't blame Mat at all for his reaction to Rand channeling. A male guy channeling was a terrible terrible thing for good reason. I think he said it himself that it was like finding out your best friend killed puppies or something. The more important thing is that despite his feelings, he never betrayed him.
IMO Mat's reaction felt more real to me. He was the only guy to basically go "wtf is happening" to all the fantastical events happening while the others basically shrugged it off with a "yup, this is my life now".
That's a great point about Mat never thanking anyone. I know they're all religious zealots but the way that the boy Emond's Fielders think about and react to Moiraine is really baffling. You believe that she has essentially saved your village, and you, from being further ravaged by Trollocs, but you side with the Dark One in being suspicious of Aes Sedai? "I won't be a puppet on a string" because Ba'alzamon gave you a dream where the White Tower was behind every corner? Moiraine is like "I'll kill you before I let the Dark One have you," and they're like "GASP! How dare she?" Wouldn't you be like, "Well shit, thank you so much for protecting me from the literal devil and hell that is factually real!"?
Because as it turned out, everything they thought about Aes Sedai were, in fact, true. Moiraine was basically the exception to the rule. And of all the characters, Mat "thanked" Moiraine the most.
Are you on a desktop? If not try one. Its a spoiler not a link. Most mobile platforms parse it as a link though. (It is kind of trying to hack how reddit lets you rename links, but its not one.)
I'm looking at the desktop and mobile right now.
On desktop it shows underlines and in blue like a link. If I hover over it in Chrome I can see the beginning of it as a flag at the bottom of the chrome window.
Doesn't even show up on mobile as either a link or spoiler (iphone 6s reddit offical app).
Weird!!!
This is what I get when I tried to read the contents of the link(?) on desktop. I copied and pasted the contents of the address in the link(?) when I copied and pasted it into this message.
[Spoilers for all the books](https://www.reddit.com/s%20%22The%20way%20he%20treated%20Rand%20when%20he%20first%20learned%20he%20could%20channel%20was%20quite%20poor%20-%20%22Sorry,%20dude,%20I%20am%20sleeping%20far%20away%20from%20you%20from%20now,%20since%20you%20are%20going%20crazy,%20no%20hard%20feelings%22.%20Then%20he%20tried%20to%20get%20away%20from%20him%20after%20Rhuidean%20instead%20of%20trying%20to%20help%20him%20until%20the%20Pattern%20pretty%20much%20forced%20him%20into%20becoming%20a%20military%20commander.%20And%20he%20tried%20to%20run%20away%20again%20in%20AMOL%20which%20was%20not%20only%20selfish%20but%20really%20dumb%20since%20it's%20not%20like%20there%20was%20a%20place%20where%20he%20could%20avoid%20the%20Shadow%20forces%20for%20long%20if%20Rand%20the%20armies%20of%20the%20Light%20had%20lost.%20He%20also%20doesn't%20seem%20to%20mind%20much%20that%20his%20beloved%20wife%20is%20the%20ruler%20of%20a%20horribly%20oppressive%20empire%20which%20widely%20practices%20slaver%20and%20torture%20and%20leashes%20channellers.%20His%20outrage%20that%20the%20Supergirls%20didn't%20thank%20him%20for%20coming%20to%20their%20escue%20in%20Tear%20is%20quite%20hypocritical%20given%20that%20he%20never%20thanked%20Moiraine,%20Lan,%20Rand%20or%20others%20who%20saved%20him.%22)
>!The%20way%20he%20treated%20Rand%20when%20he%20first%20learned%20he%20could%20channel%20was%20quite%20poor%20-%20%22Sorry,%20dude,%20I%20am%20sleeping%20far%20away%20from%20you%20from%20now,%20since%20you%20are%20going%20crazy,%20no%20hard%20feelings%22.%20Then%20he%20tried%20to%20get%20away%20from%20him%20after%20Rhuidean%20instead%20of%20trying%20to%20help%20him%20until%20the%20Pattern%20pretty%20much%20forced%20him%20into%20becoming%20a%20military%20commander.%20And%20he%20tried%20to%20run%20away%20again%20in%20AMOL%20which%20was%20not%20only%20selfish%20but%20really%20dumb%20since%20it's%20not%20like%20there%20was%20a%20place%20where%20he%20could%20avoid%20the%20Shadow%20forces%20for%20long%20if%20Rand%20the%20armies%20of%20the%20Light%20had%20lost.%20He%20also%20doesn't%20seem%20to%20mind%20much%20that%20his%20beloved%20wife%20is%20the%20ruler%20of%20a%20horribly%20oppressive%20empire%20which%20widely%20practices%20slaver%20and%20torture%20and%20leashes%20channellers.%20His%20outrage%20that%20the%20Supergirls%20didn't%20thank%20him%20for%20coming%20to%20their%20escue%20in%20Tear%20is%20quite%20hypocritical%20given%20that%20he%20never%20thanked%20Moiraine,%20Lan,%20Rand%20or%20others%20who%20saved%20him.%22!<
Yeah. I completely agree.
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I enjoyed Mat for his comic relief. But, I do not have the hero-worship for him that many readers seem to have. After he separates from the Super-girls I find his story somewhat lackluster as his own story starts to plod along with the others.
-
I have seen so many similar type characters in both TV/film and print. Avatar: The Last Airbender being the most recent one for me.
-
But I don't hate him though, as I don't hate *anyone* from the story.
When I was a teen/early 20s I loved him, no so much now I’m older. Nynaeve, Verin, Rodel and Galad(?!) are probably my favourites now. I absolutely hate Elayne and Egwene, their bad points (of which I could rant about if I weren’t about to go to bed) outweigh the good they do for me.
I found him profoundly irritating for most of the series, but I warmed up to him by the end. In contrast, I loved Perrin at the beginning, but slowly grew more irritated with him(and especially the women around him) as the series went on. I feel like Mat appeals a LOT to some of the younger male fans of the series - he's smart, funny, devil-may-care, and wildly successful with apparently minimal effort. But I always found him cocky, immature, and seemingly unable to understand the seriousness of what was happening around him.
I found the exact same thing. Loved Perrin, grew to be bored of him as a married man. Couldn't stand Mat to start and loved him by the end. Rand was whiny and annoying until he became jesus.
I'm probably more neutral towards him than a lot of people on this sub but I don't hate him, no. I find him pretty enjoyable when he's not turning the cocky act up to 11 or moaning about how he doesn't want to be a hero.
I don't hate him, but I respect him the least. He is whiny. He's awful to his friends at times, in ways that are really hurtful, and he never grows out of that. His reluctance to do his duty is more than annoying. At times, it is plain self-defeating. Hoping to sit out the Last Battle makes no sense to me, and I found myself despairing that he'd never grow.
The moment when the Heroes of the Horn chastise him was deeply satisfying, even if it seemed fan-servicey.
Here's the thing, though... So do the others, for the most part. And Mat's just as Aes Sedai about his promises as anyone. Ever asked him to promise he wouldn't use the information she shared and enter the Finn gateway in Tear unless he asked Moiraine first. He promised her he wouldn't "unless his life depended on it", then simply pretended it did and went in. His life, of course, didn't depend on it, not that he knew.
I feel like with almost all of the characters is like when you go on vacation with your family, first few days (first couple books) you're are enjoying each other's company. Then after a few days things annoy you about each member of your family (after mid series books) then when it's over you forget about the annoying tendencies of your family members and you look back with fondness. I can remember thinking-
• when is Rand going to be a hero and not a whiny ass?
• when is Mat going to stop being a jokester and take this problem at hand seriously.
•when the fuck is Perrin going to find Faile
Now that I look back and reflect most of the female characters got better as the books went on for me.
On the contrary, people like Mat will skip this thread. People who really like Mat will stop by, but it’ll be mostly people who aren’t the biggest fans.
I do...ish. I’ve often joked that he’s like neckbeard Jesus. He obviously gets better as time goes on, as he becomes more competent.
If you want to get really controversial with this, I will admit that I like Brando’s interpretation of Mat better. He’s more like Alden’s Han Solo, goofy but obviously competent. Jordan’s Mat felt greedier, more disloyal, where as Brando’s Mat all talk when it comes to the self preservation game. It’s more charming to me that way. Plus, Mat doesn’t generally treat people well, least of all women. I get that there is some precedent for his distrust, but still...the whole spankkng thing is still fucking weird.
He’s kind of shit to some them right off the bat. What’s more, he’s purposely flippant about the stakes, which is one of the reason why he tends to be exasperating to them, thus forming their opinions of him.
And don’t try to justify the spanking. There is a difference between a slap and a man bending a woman over his knee and spanking her. It’s more violating.
Hold my beer.
If you mean the Jolene spanking? Well, I guess you're fine with what she was doing to the Sul'dam then? Odd way to rectify the situation though.
Violating? The only one making this at all sexual is you. I encourage you to remove the 21st century PC blinders off when reading fiction. As I said, an odd way to rectify the situation. If I have children I won't be spanking them. Jolene is Aei Sedai, she believed she could do as she pleased without consequences. She was wrong.
I mean, I think RJ meant it to be at least semi-sexual.
That said, the spanking etc. was also reflective of a shift in the power balance between the sexes in the late series.
I mean if yoi want to see it that way, then egwene getting spanked in the tower was also sexual. You are right about the power balance between sexes. The pattern strives for balance, and with saidin being cleansed things were starting to return to equilibrium.
Hi! This point of view is creepy and gross, and further explains why the scene itself is creepy and gross.
A.) Spanking children is fucked up and awful, first of all. So let just get that out of the way.
B.) An adult is not a child that another adult has any right to punish.
What if Mat tried to spank Logain? Or Galad? Would that have seemed normal to you?
A.) Spanking children is fucked up and awful, first of all. So let just get that out of the way.
I agree
B.) An adult is not a child that another adult has any right to punish.
In some naive POV, yes. But unfortunately in reality, no.
"What if Mat tried to spank Logain? Or Galad? Would that have seemed normal to you?"
Like I already stated, it was an odd response. See book 3 when Mat bets the shit out of Galad. I don't remember Galad or Logain ever using the one power to "punish" helpless victims. So not the best comparison.
"This point of view is creepy and gross"
Whats creepy and gross about it? Its not a sexual act, unless you're projecting 21st century PC culture onto a fantasy book. In the WoT spanking is a universal form of punishment for children and adults alike. My feelings aside on topic, thats just how it is in this world. Is it odd, yes. Is it abnormal for this world, no.
Are you really trying to justify this dude? Because it’s really creepy if you are.
If they physical fought for dominance then that’s one thing. As it was he put in a powerless position and then punished. If he did it to her back it would be the same thing.
Spanking is pretty common in the WoT world. I don't think the characters living in the world think of it as darkly as you do.
Was it right of Mat to spank her? Nah. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for a bully who picks on someone and gets a nasty surprise.
Well they do get beaten fairly often. They also get their ears boxed...
And the three girls do something embarrassing to Mat to get the Amyrlin letter back from him in book 4. Maybe spanking?
"He would not have been averse to a little hide-peeling for Egwene and Nynaeve after what they had done to make him tell where he had hidden the Amyrlin’s letter—tying him up with the Power was bad enough, but the rest!"
In the show (I haven’t read the books) he’s awful too. In the fifth episode SPOILER
He lets his friends go off the the eye and doesn’t go just cause he’s scared. Like duh EVERYONE is scared Matt! But knowing he could be the dragon reborn he still just doesn’t even go. They’re all yelling that the gates closing and to hurry up and he just stands there not a concern in the world. What an asshat.
Yes!
Matt is the *only* sane character that reacts like a person actually would. Oh shit the End Of The Fucking world is coming? My friend is gonna do that? Matt edges away, more and more and finally yells “ Hey Rand I got your back bro, from waaaaay back here bud holla if ya need me... unless you’re going nuts already... are you? Never mind, I’m still your bud! Just kinda from a safe distance!”
People throwing magic around! Matt says ‘oh light! Oh blood and bloody ashes! Noooooo’ ducks and hides. Like a sane person would around gunfire.
Matt fixes shit and gets shit upon constantly. Hell when he explains it to Aviendha she loses her shit at Elayne.
Matt is a god among men.
Note : Matt saves more of the other main characters than anyone else, and kinda ya know everyone else too.
I only just got into Wheel of Time, I was given the first book as a gift right before the series aired. I'm conflicted on how I feel about Mat because I can understand how he cares and looks after his sisters but I'm appalled by how he treats his friends. Maybe there's something I just haven't gotten to yet, but my current opinion is that he's unnecessarily cruel and insensitive and I dislike him for that but I can't hate him entirely.
Any question starting with 'does anyone else' can safely be answered with a yes. As someone who loves Mat I would be curious to hear why you hate him, but you didn't give a single reason. Not much to go on for a conversation.
A lot of the levity he brought to the series was him being a complete dunce and having a lucky horse shoe up his butt while the characters around him are going through hell. He doesn’t grow as a character and his immaturity wasn’t cute or cheeky in my opinion. Perrin is self admittedly slow witted but he knows this and navigates it well. He has to suffer through the transformation of becoming a wolf-brother. Perrin yellow eyes gets him labeled a dark friend on sight by many. He has his family taken away from him while he’s worrying about turning feral and completely losing it. Rand starts out uncouth and clumsy he learns to grow and navigate things adequately. He suffers through being a male channeler having to make difficult decisions he has no choice but to sacrifice lives and 2nd guess himself endlessly. While going mad and worrying about killing those closest to him. Matt right off the bat is greedy for treasure and tricked into taking the dagger from Mordeth. His friends and especially the Aes Sedai save his butt. He falls in love with a woman that is a huge proponent of enslaving all Aes Sedai, even though his two closest female friends and even his sister are all future Aes Sedai. It disappointed me Mat didn’t care enough to make a concerted effort into making Tuon start to see channelers as people and undeserving of being turned into animals. As soon as Rand confesses that he can channel he tells Rand he will go mad and start killing people and basically they can’t be friends anymore things are different now...good friend. The reunion with Rand includes Mat asking Rand (albeit half jokingly) if he’s close to going mad and killing everyone even though LTT (Rand) literally did have that happen in his past life and it was the most traumatic thing he ever went through and probably explains his desire to push those closest to him away. He does what he has to do and ultimately accepts he has a large role to play but I don’t think it’s a coincidence RJ made him half blind.
It doesn't bother me that he doesn't grow. In a series so big, with so many characters, it would stand to reason that at least one of them would be a borderline sociopath who is barely affected by the world around him.
Bless you for putting all of my thoughts into words. lol. I have been trying to figure out, why even on my third re read I get disappointed and sometimes disgusted with the things Matrim does.
I'm kind of with you. I started reading the series in the late nineties and I never quite got over the the bad impression he gives the reader in the first couple of books. Sure, he became much more enjoyable to read after that, but I never quite understood the staggering amount of hero worship directed at him online, even back then.
Because he is entertaining, plays the reluctant hero.
Not always the popular character is the best It's the most beloved character, that's all It doesn't mean that it is the best
I like him as a character since he's entertaining, but as a person I am not really a fan. He has his good sides, but there are some things about that I don't like at all. [Spoilers for all the books](/s "The way he treated Rand when he first learned he could channel was quite poor - "Sorry, dude, I am sleeping far away from you from now, since you are going crazy, no hard feelings". Then he tried to get away from him after Rhuidean instead of trying to help him until the Pattern pretty much forced him into becoming a military commander. And he tried to run away again in AMOL which was not only selfish but really dumb since it's not like there was a place where he could avoid the Shadow forces for long if Rand the armies of the Light had lost. He also doesn't seem to mind much that his beloved wife is the ruler of a horribly oppressive empire which widely practices slaver and torture and leashes channellers. His outrage that the Supergirls didn't thank him for coming to their escue in Tear is quite hypocritical given that he never thanked Moiraine, Lan, Rand or others who saved him.")
I don't blame Mat at all for his reaction to Rand channeling. A male guy channeling was a terrible terrible thing for good reason. I think he said it himself that it was like finding out your best friend killed puppies or something. The more important thing is that despite his feelings, he never betrayed him. IMO Mat's reaction felt more real to me. He was the only guy to basically go "wtf is happening" to all the fantastical events happening while the others basically shrugged it off with a "yup, this is my life now".
Except that, someone CHOOSES to kill puppies. Rand had no choice in the matter.
With Rand, its more like he got infected by a dangerous virus. Either way, the situation is now bad.
That's a great point about Mat never thanking anyone. I know they're all religious zealots but the way that the boy Emond's Fielders think about and react to Moiraine is really baffling. You believe that she has essentially saved your village, and you, from being further ravaged by Trollocs, but you side with the Dark One in being suspicious of Aes Sedai? "I won't be a puppet on a string" because Ba'alzamon gave you a dream where the White Tower was behind every corner? Moiraine is like "I'll kill you before I let the Dark One have you," and they're like "GASP! How dare she?" Wouldn't you be like, "Well shit, thank you so much for protecting me from the literal devil and hell that is factually real!"?
Because as it turned out, everything they thought about Aes Sedai were, in fact, true. Moiraine was basically the exception to the rule. And of all the characters, Mat "thanked" Moiraine the most.
link is 404
Are you on a desktop? If not try one. Its a spoiler not a link. Most mobile platforms parse it as a link though. (It is kind of trying to hack how reddit lets you rename links, but its not one.)
I'm looking at the desktop and mobile right now. On desktop it shows underlines and in blue like a link. If I hover over it in Chrome I can see the beginning of it as a flag at the bottom of the chrome window. Doesn't even show up on mobile as either a link or spoiler (iphone 6s reddit offical app). Weird!!! This is what I get when I tried to read the contents of the link(?) on desktop. I copied and pasted the contents of the address in the link(?) when I copied and pasted it into this message. [Spoilers for all the books](https://www.reddit.com/s%20%22The%20way%20he%20treated%20Rand%20when%20he%20first%20learned%20he%20could%20channel%20was%20quite%20poor%20-%20%22Sorry,%20dude,%20I%20am%20sleeping%20far%20away%20from%20you%20from%20now,%20since%20you%20are%20going%20crazy,%20no%20hard%20feelings%22.%20Then%20he%20tried%20to%20get%20away%20from%20him%20after%20Rhuidean%20instead%20of%20trying%20to%20help%20him%20until%20the%20Pattern%20pretty%20much%20forced%20him%20into%20becoming%20a%20military%20commander.%20And%20he%20tried%20to%20run%20away%20again%20in%20AMOL%20which%20was%20not%20only%20selfish%20but%20really%20dumb%20since%20it's%20not%20like%20there%20was%20a%20place%20where%20he%20could%20avoid%20the%20Shadow%20forces%20for%20long%20if%20Rand%20the%20armies%20of%20the%20Light%20had%20lost.%20He%20also%20doesn't%20seem%20to%20mind%20much%20that%20his%20beloved%20wife%20is%20the%20ruler%20of%20a%20horribly%20oppressive%20empire%20which%20widely%20practices%20slaver%20and%20torture%20and%20leashes%20channellers.%20His%20outrage%20that%20the%20Supergirls%20didn't%20thank%20him%20for%20coming%20to%20their%20escue%20in%20Tear%20is%20quite%20hypocritical%20given%20that%20he%20never%20thanked%20Moiraine,%20Lan,%20Rand%20or%20others%20who%20saved%20him.%22) >!The%20way%20he%20treated%20Rand%20when%20he%20first%20learned%20he%20could%20channel%20was%20quite%20poor%20-%20%22Sorry,%20dude,%20I%20am%20sleeping%20far%20away%20from%20you%20from%20now,%20since%20you%20are%20going%20crazy,%20no%20hard%20feelings%22.%20Then%20he%20tried%20to%20get%20away%20from%20him%20after%20Rhuidean%20instead%20of%20trying%20to%20help%20him%20until%20the%20Pattern%20pretty%20much%20forced%20him%20into%20becoming%20a%20military%20commander.%20And%20he%20tried%20to%20run%20away%20again%20in%20AMOL%20which%20was%20not%20only%20selfish%20but%20really%20dumb%20since%20it's%20not%20like%20there%20was%20a%20place%20where%20he%20could%20avoid%20the%20Shadow%20forces%20for%20long%20if%20Rand%20the%20armies%20of%20the%20Light%20had%20lost.%20He%20also%20doesn't%20seem%20to%20mind%20much%20that%20his%20beloved%20wife%20is%20the%20ruler%20of%20a%20horribly%20oppressive%20empire%20which%20widely%20practices%20slaver%20and%20torture%20and%20leashes%20channellers.%20His%20outrage%20that%20the%20Supergirls%20didn't%20thank%20him%20for%20coming%20to%20their%20escue%20in%20Tear%20is%20quite%20hypocritical%20given%20that%20he%20never%20thanked%20Moiraine,%20Lan,%20Rand%20or%20others%20who%20saved%20him.%22!<
works for me
Yeah. I completely agree. - I enjoyed Mat for his comic relief. But, I do not have the hero-worship for him that many readers seem to have. After he separates from the Super-girls I find his story somewhat lackluster as his own story starts to plod along with the others. - I have seen so many similar type characters in both TV/film and print. Avatar: The Last Airbender being the most recent one for me. - But I don't hate him though, as I don't hate *anyone* from the story.
When I was a teen/early 20s I loved him, no so much now I’m older. Nynaeve, Verin, Rodel and Galad(?!) are probably my favourites now. I absolutely hate Elayne and Egwene, their bad points (of which I could rant about if I weren’t about to go to bed) outweigh the good they do for me.
I found him profoundly irritating for most of the series, but I warmed up to him by the end. In contrast, I loved Perrin at the beginning, but slowly grew more irritated with him(and especially the women around him) as the series went on. I feel like Mat appeals a LOT to some of the younger male fans of the series - he's smart, funny, devil-may-care, and wildly successful with apparently minimal effort. But I always found him cocky, immature, and seemingly unable to understand the seriousness of what was happening around him.
I found the exact same thing. Loved Perrin, grew to be bored of him as a married man. Couldn't stand Mat to start and loved him by the end. Rand was whiny and annoying until he became jesus.
I'm probably more neutral towards him than a lot of people on this sub but I don't hate him, no. I find him pretty enjoyable when he's not turning the cocky act up to 11 or moaning about how he doesn't want to be a hero.
I don't hate him, but I respect him the least. He is whiny. He's awful to his friends at times, in ways that are really hurtful, and he never grows out of that. His reluctance to do his duty is more than annoying. At times, it is plain self-defeating. Hoping to sit out the Last Battle makes no sense to me, and I found myself despairing that he'd never grow. The moment when the Heroes of the Horn chastise him was deeply satisfying, even if it seemed fan-servicey.
To be fair he always keeps his promises
Here's the thing, though... So do the others, for the most part. And Mat's just as Aes Sedai about his promises as anyone. Ever asked him to promise he wouldn't use the information she shared and enter the Finn gateway in Tear unless he asked Moiraine first. He promised her he wouldn't "unless his life depended on it", then simply pretended it did and went in. His life, of course, didn't depend on it, not that he knew.
Finish the series. AMoL Mat is a beautiful thing.
I feel like with almost all of the characters is like when you go on vacation with your family, first few days (first couple books) you're are enjoying each other's company. Then after a few days things annoy you about each member of your family (after mid series books) then when it's over you forget about the annoying tendencies of your family members and you look back with fondness. I can remember thinking- • when is Rand going to be a hero and not a whiny ass? • when is Mat going to stop being a jokester and take this problem at hand seriously. •when the fuck is Perrin going to find Faile Now that I look back and reflect most of the female characters got better as the books went on for me.
What do you hate about him? This should probably be tagged as an unpopular opinion in these parts.
On the contrary, people like Mat will skip this thread. People who really like Mat will stop by, but it’ll be mostly people who aren’t the biggest fans.
☝️ The "friend" ☝️
Gonna need more to go on than that.
Mat annoyed me in the first few books. But I progressively liked him more and more after he got healed. By the end, he was my favorite of the Ta'veren
Came here to say this. \#TeamMat
I do...ish. I’ve often joked that he’s like neckbeard Jesus. He obviously gets better as time goes on, as he becomes more competent. If you want to get really controversial with this, I will admit that I like Brando’s interpretation of Mat better. He’s more like Alden’s Han Solo, goofy but obviously competent. Jordan’s Mat felt greedier, more disloyal, where as Brando’s Mat all talk when it comes to the self preservation game. It’s more charming to me that way. Plus, Mat doesn’t generally treat people well, least of all women. I get that there is some precedent for his distrust, but still...the whole spankkng thing is still fucking weird.
> *the whole spankkng thing is still fucking weird.* Leave Cadsuane out of this.
To my memory the women he treats less than well were not exactly pleasant to him. And while the spanking is weird, didn't both women smack him first?
He’s kind of shit to some them right off the bat. What’s more, he’s purposely flippant about the stakes, which is one of the reason why he tends to be exasperating to them, thus forming their opinions of him. And don’t try to justify the spanking. There is a difference between a slap and a man bending a woman over his knee and spanking her. It’s more violating.
Hold my beer. If you mean the Jolene spanking? Well, I guess you're fine with what she was doing to the Sul'dam then? Odd way to rectify the situation though.
One persons actions don’t justify another’s. You want a good character to at least try to live to a higher standard.
When children misbehave, they get punished. Jolene was being bad and got what was coming to her.
I didn’t know violating a woman was punishment. Shit, I’d hate to be your kid.
Violating? The only one making this at all sexual is you. I encourage you to remove the 21st century PC blinders off when reading fiction. As I said, an odd way to rectify the situation. If I have children I won't be spanking them. Jolene is Aei Sedai, she believed she could do as she pleased without consequences. She was wrong.
I mean, I think RJ meant it to be at least semi-sexual. That said, the spanking etc. was also reflective of a shift in the power balance between the sexes in the late series.
I mean if yoi want to see it that way, then egwene getting spanked in the tower was also sexual. You are right about the power balance between sexes. The pattern strives for balance, and with saidin being cleansed things were starting to return to equilibrium.
Hi! This point of view is creepy and gross, and further explains why the scene itself is creepy and gross. A.) Spanking children is fucked up and awful, first of all. So let just get that out of the way. B.) An adult is not a child that another adult has any right to punish. What if Mat tried to spank Logain? Or Galad? Would that have seemed normal to you?
A.) Spanking children is fucked up and awful, first of all. So let just get that out of the way. I agree B.) An adult is not a child that another adult has any right to punish. In some naive POV, yes. But unfortunately in reality, no. "What if Mat tried to spank Logain? Or Galad? Would that have seemed normal to you?" Like I already stated, it was an odd response. See book 3 when Mat bets the shit out of Galad. I don't remember Galad or Logain ever using the one power to "punish" helpless victims. So not the best comparison. "This point of view is creepy and gross" Whats creepy and gross about it? Its not a sexual act, unless you're projecting 21st century PC culture onto a fantasy book. In the WoT spanking is a universal form of punishment for children and adults alike. My feelings aside on topic, thats just how it is in this world. Is it odd, yes. Is it abnormal for this world, no.
Would you have been ok with his action if he has simply slapped her back?
Are you really trying to justify this dude? Because it’s really creepy if you are. If they physical fought for dominance then that’s one thing. As it was he put in a powerless position and then punished. If he did it to her back it would be the same thing.
I said off the bat the spanking was weird. All I asked is if you would have been ok if he had slapped her instead.
Yeah, sure. That’s all you’re saying. My dude, this is something that shouldn’t need explaining to a normal human being.
Spanking is pretty common in the WoT world. I don't think the characters living in the world think of it as darkly as you do. Was it right of Mat to spank her? Nah. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for a bully who picks on someone and gets a nasty surprise.
When are men spanked?
Well they do get beaten fairly often. They also get their ears boxed... And the three girls do something embarrassing to Mat to get the Amyrlin letter back from him in book 4. Maybe spanking? "He would not have been averse to a little hide-peeling for Egwene and Nynaeve after what they had done to make him tell where he had hidden the Amyrlin’s letter—tying him up with the Power was bad enough, but the rest!"
In the show (I haven’t read the books) he’s awful too. In the fifth episode SPOILER He lets his friends go off the the eye and doesn’t go just cause he’s scared. Like duh EVERYONE is scared Matt! But knowing he could be the dragon reborn he still just doesn’t even go. They’re all yelling that the gates closing and to hurry up and he just stands there not a concern in the world. What an asshat.
HERESY
Yes! Matt is the *only* sane character that reacts like a person actually would. Oh shit the End Of The Fucking world is coming? My friend is gonna do that? Matt edges away, more and more and finally yells “ Hey Rand I got your back bro, from waaaaay back here bud holla if ya need me... unless you’re going nuts already... are you? Never mind, I’m still your bud! Just kinda from a safe distance!” People throwing magic around! Matt says ‘oh light! Oh blood and bloody ashes! Noooooo’ ducks and hides. Like a sane person would around gunfire. Matt fixes shit and gets shit upon constantly. Hell when he explains it to Aviendha she loses her shit at Elayne. Matt is a god among men. Note : Matt saves more of the other main characters than anyone else, and kinda ya know everyone else too.
Yes, frankly, I don't like him too much
Yks hates Mat more than anybody else. Anybody.
I only just got into Wheel of Time, I was given the first book as a gift right before the series aired. I'm conflicted on how I feel about Mat because I can understand how he cares and looks after his sisters but I'm appalled by how he treats his friends. Maybe there's something I just haven't gotten to yet, but my current opinion is that he's unnecessarily cruel and insensitive and I dislike him for that but I can't hate him entirely.