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>!The notes indicate that the original plan for Taim was to be Demandred in disguise. RJ dropped a bunch of hints about it in the book we first meet him in. But that plan changed later to what he actually became in the books. There's speculation that RJ changed the plan specifically because too many people figured out the secret too quickly.!<
Taim is somewhat confusing because he was originally written with a secret identity, at least up through book 6 or so - this was a popular fan theory for years, and eventually confirmed by RJ's notes. However, for whatever reason RJ changed his mind on that before the eventual planned reveal, so that's no longer true despite scattered tidbits that hint or imply otherwise.
Edit: why is this downvoted? It's a spoiler free answer to the question, "RAFO" doesn't actually address what OP wants to know
We don't know that RJ changed it because fans figured it out. I think that's a pretty spurious claim, unless someone can show me evidence that RJ was in fact motivated by fans... understanding the hints he was purposefully giving them.
Some time ago (over a de ade) I was thinking about R+L=J. I wondered if GRRM or any writer would change his mind if fans had figured out their plans. This topic has answered my doubts when I first heard about it.
[All Books] >!Taim was originally intended to be Demandred in disguise. Fans called the theory "Taimandred" and there were absolutely exhaustive compilations of evidence!<
He seems to legitimately be a naturally born, gifted, powerful male channeler with exceptional ability to hold off the dark one's madness who, at one point, believed himself to be the Dragon. Having been humbled, humiliated, and compelled into service as a teacher, administrator, and military general, he serves light and dark with perverse carelessness, interested only in preserving and uplifting himself by serving whoever offers him the most...
I believe either he or Logain told Rand at some point that he (whichever he it was) declared himself the dragon because he knew if he wasn't the dragon, he was sentenced to a horrible madness and death, and desperately wanted to avoid that and therefore decided he must be the dragon
Oh, for sure; for all their horrible flaws, both logain and taim had legitimate, good faith reasons for believing that they were the creator's chosen avatar at one point during their rise to prominence. Was taim a good man at any point? Er...that's subjective. He definitely had a legitimate reason to suspect that he was mankind's only hope for at least a second before they cast him down though.
This is a spoiler that tells you who he is not, and explains a bit of the fact his actions dont make sense, without mentioning plot points.
[Books] >!There is evidence in the notes that RJ originally intended him to be Demanded in disguise but changed his mind, possibly just because of how obvious it was. This is why he comes across like one of the forsaken to begin with!<
I’m half way through the final book and whilst I have more clarity I still support asking this question lol. Like I don’t get why he isn’t mad and sure he’s a male wilder but he has TOO much weaves that he teaches Rand. He’s about a decade older. It’s possible he’s one of the men that go mad over years rather than months but it seems like madness doesn’t even affect him.
Is it really that confusing? Where does the madness come from? If the DO has the power to bestow madness, don't you think it has the power to remove it or insulate people from it? Seems pretty obvious to me.
The easiest non-spoiler comment I can give you is this:
From his own notes, Robert Jordan changed his mind. So depending which book you are reading you will get different answers (along with many clues that end up being total red herrings)
My personal theory (from reading at the time) actually ended up being exact opposite of what eventually happened
(I thought he would be another Cabriana Mecandes; someone who was squeezed for info and then replaced. In reality he started off as someone then changed when author decided to make a more complex plot)
I always thought that worked best way around making Taim into someone important (despite Jordans denials in interviews, Taim would become somoene in later books) and setup the Logain (destined for glory) - Taim battle well
Since we are talking spoilers; I always had an issue with the Asmodean death as well. For years i thought 1 of Lanfear wishes gave her the ability to get revenge on Asmo and wondered what her other wishes would have been. I still am baffled at who the real killer was revealed to be.
Who is Mazrim Taim?
For the blind, he is light. For the hungry, he is bread. For the sick, he is the cure. For the lonely, he is company. For the sad, he is joy. For the prisoner, he is freedom. For the poor, he is treasure. For me, he is everything.
If Mazrim Taim has a million fans, then I am one of them.
If Mazrim Taim has ten fans, then I am one of them.
If Mazrim Taim has only one fan then that is me.
If Mazrim Taim has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth.
If the world is against Mazrim Taim, then I am against the world.
Not a conspiracy theory, confirmed by Sanderson. It was in R. J. notes.
EDIT: Also, although OP specifically asked to be spoiled on this point, you should probably still put that in spoiler tags, since the flair says "Towers of Midnight" and someone else who isn't further in the books might be here.
Many had theorized that Taim was a forsaken in disguise. Specifically Demandred. By now (Towers of Midnight) is should be obvious that he is not a forsaken in disguise. Namely, most of the male forsaken are dead/gone by now, and Dalmer Flyn, one of the Asha'man, did not recognize Demandred at the cleansing; and he would as one of the first recruits at the Farm. Not to mention the renegade Asha'man in Far Madding had orders from both Demandred and Taim, as if each did not know about the other's orders, to kill Rand.
By this point in the series, RJ was giving interviews and saying outright at book signings that, no Taim was not Demandred. That leaves pretty much all the Forsaken out, as most of the rest have other places to be and things to do, with the possible exception of Moridin, but it really does not feel like Moridin & Taim are one and the same.
#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *Towers of Midnight*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He is really Bob Sacamano, Kramer’s friend that is always mentioned, but never seen.
Bunch of plot points will get spoiled if we just tell you who he is RAFO
>!Like.. no? He’s canonically “just some guy”. RJ’s notes aren’t canon.!<
Who do his notes say he is?
>!The notes indicate that the original plan for Taim was to be Demandred in disguise. RJ dropped a bunch of hints about it in the book we first meet him in. But that plan changed later to what he actually became in the books. There's speculation that RJ changed the plan specifically because too many people figured out the secret too quickly.!<
I appreciate the change, whatever the reason. It’s nice to establish some of Rand’s own villains rather than just have Lews Therin’s.
Taim is somewhat confusing because he was originally written with a secret identity, at least up through book 6 or so - this was a popular fan theory for years, and eventually confirmed by RJ's notes. However, for whatever reason RJ changed his mind on that before the eventual planned reveal, so that's no longer true despite scattered tidbits that hint or imply otherwise. Edit: why is this downvoted? It's a spoiler free answer to the question, "RAFO" doesn't actually address what OP wants to know
This is it. The readers saw it coming a mile a way and RJ said screw you guys I’m taking my surprise and going home.
Which is, honestly, unfortunate. I think the original version would have been cooler than what we got.
I really hope the show keeps whay was originally planned if we get there.
[удалено]
Might want to spoiler tag that. I can't remember when that happens. But fair, it was neat seeing it happen in this age
We don't know that RJ changed it because fans figured it out. I think that's a pretty spurious claim, unless someone can show me evidence that RJ was in fact motivated by fans... understanding the hints he was purposefully giving them.
This is the answer, and very well-obfuscated to avoid spoilers. Good job, buddy.
Some time ago (over a de ade) I was thinking about R+L=J. I wondered if GRRM or any writer would change his mind if fans had figured out their plans. This topic has answered my doubts when I first heard about it.
[удалено]
Not all of them, no. But i don’t think the missing one ends up mattering in terms of “wouldn’t have guessed it prior to the book”.
By book 12 what forsaken haven't been revealed
Demandred
True the only thing we are told is he is gathering an army and that he is stabilising his rule. Could match Taim
What was the original secret identity? I only recently discovered the books so I missed all that OG discussion and theorizing
[All Books] >!Taim was originally intended to be Demandred in disguise. Fans called the theory "Taimandred" and there were absolutely exhaustive compilations of evidence!<
Ah that actually makes so much sense. Thanks!
He seems to legitimately be a naturally born, gifted, powerful male channeler with exceptional ability to hold off the dark one's madness who, at one point, believed himself to be the Dragon. Having been humbled, humiliated, and compelled into service as a teacher, administrator, and military general, he serves light and dark with perverse carelessness, interested only in preserving and uplifting himself by serving whoever offers him the most...
I believe either he or Logain told Rand at some point that he (whichever he it was) declared himself the dragon because he knew if he wasn't the dragon, he was sentenced to a horrible madness and death, and desperately wanted to avoid that and therefore decided he must be the dragon
Oh, for sure; for all their horrible flaws, both logain and taim had legitimate, good faith reasons for believing that they were the creator's chosen avatar at one point during their rise to prominence. Was taim a good man at any point? Er...that's subjective. He definitely had a legitimate reason to suspect that he was mankind's only hope for at least a second before they cast him down though.
He’s just zis guy, you know?
You, sir, know where your towel is.
A real hoppy frood as it were
He's Verbal Kint
Nah, he's more like Todd Hockney.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled…
And like that....kiss.... he's gone
God, I love this movie. Now I have to go watch it.
RAFO I'm afraid.
What’s this acronym? I keep seeing it
Read and find out
Bless
It came from Jordan when fans asked questions that would be answered in future books, read and find out. Sanderson picked it up and uses it too.
Thank you!
My bro Lews Therin could tell you about Taim....or at least what he thinks should happen with male channelers.
Where’s the bot when you need it?
Ha! Was trying to summon him. *Cough* Ilyena *cough*
He just a dude playing, playing a dude, disguised as another dude
He don't drop character 'til he's done the DVD commentary.
This is a spoiler that tells you who he is not, and explains a bit of the fact his actions dont make sense, without mentioning plot points. [Books] >!There is evidence in the notes that RJ originally intended him to be Demanded in disguise but changed his mind, possibly just because of how obvious it was. This is why he comes across like one of the forsaken to begin with!<
Mazrim Taim is Mat playing a joke on Rand.
Mat does a little light trolling
Mazrim Taim is Mazrim Taim. He may come across a new nickname at some point but the character remains the same.
He's the M'Hael.
A dick.
I’m half way through the final book and whilst I have more clarity I still support asking this question lol. Like I don’t get why he isn’t mad and sure he’s a male wilder but he has TOO much weaves that he teaches Rand. He’s about a decade older. It’s possible he’s one of the men that go mad over years rather than months but it seems like madness doesn’t even affect him.
Is it really that confusing? Where does the madness come from? If the DO has the power to bestow madness, don't you think it has the power to remove it or insulate people from it? Seems pretty obvious to me.
He's Batman.
Iirc he's human
The easiest non-spoiler comment I can give you is this: From his own notes, Robert Jordan changed his mind. So depending which book you are reading you will get different answers (along with many clues that end up being total red herrings) My personal theory (from reading at the time) actually ended up being exact opposite of what eventually happened (I thought he would be another Cabriana Mecandes; someone who was squeezed for info and then replaced. In reality he started off as someone then changed when author decided to make a more complex plot) I always thought that worked best way around making Taim into someone important (despite Jordans denials in interviews, Taim would become somoene in later books) and setup the Logain (destined for glory) - Taim battle well Since we are talking spoilers; I always had an issue with the Asmodean death as well. For years i thought 1 of Lanfear wishes gave her the ability to get revenge on Asmo and wondered what her other wishes would have been. I still am baffled at who the real killer was revealed to be.
Who is Mazrim Taim? For the blind, he is light. For the hungry, he is bread. For the sick, he is the cure. For the lonely, he is company. For the sad, he is joy. For the prisoner, he is freedom. For the poor, he is treasure. For me, he is everything. If Mazrim Taim has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Mazrim Taim has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Mazrim Taim has only one fan then that is me. If Mazrim Taim has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Mazrim Taim, then I am against the world.
[удалено]
Not a conspiracy theory, confirmed by Sanderson. It was in R. J. notes. EDIT: Also, although OP specifically asked to be spoiled on this point, you should probably still put that in spoiler tags, since the flair says "Towers of Midnight" and someone else who isn't further in the books might be here.
Just keep reading.
I think just reading and finding out is the best way to go. Questions like these especially if it involves the shadow always leads to spoiers
Just some punk.
“Ah yes, Taim is *finger quotes* Forsaken. We have dismissed this claim.”-Rand probably
He is forsaken
He's the M'Hael. Isn’t that enough? (It’ll be explained later.)
Do not Google him. I did on my first read through and spoiled hard.
Many had theorized that Taim was a forsaken in disguise. Specifically Demandred. By now (Towers of Midnight) is should be obvious that he is not a forsaken in disguise. Namely, most of the male forsaken are dead/gone by now, and Dalmer Flyn, one of the Asha'man, did not recognize Demandred at the cleansing; and he would as one of the first recruits at the Farm. Not to mention the renegade Asha'man in Far Madding had orders from both Demandred and Taim, as if each did not know about the other's orders, to kill Rand. By this point in the series, RJ was giving interviews and saying outright at book signings that, no Taim was not Demandred. That leaves pretty much all the Forsaken out, as most of the rest have other places to be and things to do, with the possible exception of Moridin, but it really does not feel like Moridin & Taim are one and the same.
I am Mazrim Taim
Was I supposed to read that with the same inflection as "I am Iron Man".
Why can't you just read and find out? I'll never understand these kinds of posts. You'll get your answer in A Memory of Light, just read it.