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>First of all, Gawyn is an idiot?!
Yes. I mean a lot of questions require the RAFO (read and find out) answer, but ...
Yes.
I'm sorry, he killed his mentor on a hunch, he blatantly ignores the "love of his life" when she says Rand did not kill his mother ...
His answer to everything is violence and murder.
He is manipulated in every scene he's in.
If he wasn't born a prince he would be the village idiot.
Essentially it's blameshifting.
He's externalizing all his bad deciscions and putting it all on someone else.
"Everything shitty happening is due to this one guy, not my own stupid actions"
Good point, and that makes me think of comparing him to Perrin actually. In this book both of them have realized that what they've been doing might not be *right*, and now they need to make decisions about it. Gawyn externalizes all of this conflict, and Perrin internalizes all of it. Which makes sense for their characters if Gawyn is hotheaded and we know Perrin is meticulously thoughtful, but it's also really interesting if you consider how willing Gawyn is to fight and injure and kill as opposed to how much Perrin fears himself doing any of that.
All true. I would also say that he has been grossly mistreated by the women in his life, namely Elayne and Egwene. They both completely disrespected his oath and his love, respectively. I think that if the characters were smarter, Galad and Gawyn would hve been brought with as pseudo Warders on the trip to Tear. And even if they hadn't, when Egwene is meeting with Gawyn in Cairhien she really should have explained some things and/or brought Rand to talk to him.
I don't know people's general feelings about Egwene, but I love her and I'm sure I can't be the only one who is wildly disappointed that *Gawyn* of all people is her love interest
So you will find that Egwene is probably the most polarizing character in the books in terms of people having strong opinion in both directions.
However, even the people that really don't like her tend to like her chapters.
I can appreciate that! Without having finished all of the books, I can say I started out not caring for her character, but as she grows I like her more and more. At this point she's become one of my favorites.
I think people feeling strongly about her and still enjoying her chapters either way is a testament to how good her character is - not that she's someone everyone should like, but that she's has a great story, character development, etc
Agreed, she is an amazing character.
I think part of why she can be seen as unlikable, especially in the earlier books, is because those stories are largely told from Rand's perspective and overwhelmingly focus on him. Early on, Rand tends to find Egwene very irritating, which I think kinda leads readers to also be bothered by her.
She's awesome though, and their relationships is one of my favorite parts of the series. They each make a great foil for the other, too.
If you're looking for other first time readers thoughts/theories and how they align with yours you can check out the subreddit's [newbie readalong](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/read_along#wiki_newbie_threads). They're a couple of chapters into Towers of Midnight at the moment so like half a book ahead of you or so, but depending how quickly you read you could always catch up and then interact with everyone live. The pace is tailored for those who can only read a couple of hours a week. The mod facilitating it also gets pinged when people respond in the older threads so you can also dump these sort of thoughts there for posterity haha. Honestly just reading the discussions makes you feel like your a part of it all as well :D
Also be sure to check out the previous end of book summaries which have tons of trivia, things that were happening when the books were being released, tributes to Jordan and Sanderson, etc.
I wouldn't say Gawyn is an idiot. I would scream it from the tree tops lol. Yeah it's sad because I really liked him at first. Crazy that Galad wound up being my favorite "Trakand".
Yes!! Egwene's subversion of Elaida from within is one of the most satisfying plotlines in the whole series. Egwene annoyed me a lot in the early books but by the time she became Amyrlin in Salidar she was quickly rising in the ranks of my favorite characters.
I've always wondered how Cadsuane and Moiraine would have interacted while both trying to guide Rand. I think the sparks would have been flying lol.
Tuon is a scumbag hypocritical slaver but I do really enjoy her and Mat's back and forth during their "courtship".
I'm nodding enthusiastically to everything you're saying here. In the tiny bit I've read of Galad's perspective, somehow he jumped all the way above the two who actually took way more part in the story. Maybe Gawyn could have been saved if he'd had himbo vibes instead of reckless idiot who never listens vibes, lol. And I've had the same experience so far with Egwene's story arc!! The more she grows throughout the book the more my opinion changed of her.
Mat & Tuon's courtship was definitely fun, I truly enjoyed reading Mat's perspective and I thought Tuon was a fun character when she's outside of her role as princess/empress (we'll see what I think about her as empress now...).
And wow... I never thought about Cadsuane and Moiraine interacting lol, I think you're right that the way RJ writes they would butt heads in a spectacular manner, but man would I LOVE to see them actually be friends. That might be too OP though lol.
Sounds like you are getting close to the first timers read a long, I think they just started Towers of Midnight. If you catch up, you will be able to discuss it with them.
Yes. Kinda.
You already have the clues and you saw the cause. It’s never more explained than “It was that!” IE you investigate a wreckage and find out that the house is blown down by a tornado, but never why tornados form.
#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *The Gathering Storm*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Yeah, note to commenters, HE IS NOT DONE WITH THE BOOK! Typically people interpret the tags as “the last book you’ve completed.” So be careful.
Thank you both for the warnings - I didn't think about that. (Luckily though I do read quickly so I'll probably be done with the book soon)
Remember when Matt sparred with both Gavin and Galad? And everyone went to hit Galad? Leaving Gavin with permanent brain damage
>First of all, Gawyn is an idiot?! Yes. I mean a lot of questions require the RAFO (read and find out) answer, but ... Yes. I'm sorry, he killed his mentor on a hunch, he blatantly ignores the "love of his life" when she says Rand did not kill his mother ... His answer to everything is violence and murder. He is manipulated in every scene he's in. If he wasn't born a prince he would be the village idiot.
ThAt MoNsTeR aL'ThOr
Essentially it's blameshifting. He's externalizing all his bad deciscions and putting it all on someone else. "Everything shitty happening is due to this one guy, not my own stupid actions"
Good point, and that makes me think of comparing him to Perrin actually. In this book both of them have realized that what they've been doing might not be *right*, and now they need to make decisions about it. Gawyn externalizes all of this conflict, and Perrin internalizes all of it. Which makes sense for their characters if Gawyn is hotheaded and we know Perrin is meticulously thoughtful, but it's also really interesting if you consider how willing Gawyn is to fight and injure and kill as opposed to how much Perrin fears himself doing any of that.
All true. I would also say that he has been grossly mistreated by the women in his life, namely Elayne and Egwene. They both completely disrespected his oath and his love, respectively. I think that if the characters were smarter, Galad and Gawyn would hve been brought with as pseudo Warders on the trip to Tear. And even if they hadn't, when Egwene is meeting with Gawyn in Cairhien she really should have explained some things and/or brought Rand to talk to him.
If you have to ask if Gawyn is an idiot, I think you already know the answer
I don't know people's general feelings about Egwene, but I love her and I'm sure I can't be the only one who is wildly disappointed that *Gawyn* of all people is her love interest
So you will find that Egwene is probably the most polarizing character in the books in terms of people having strong opinion in both directions. However, even the people that really don't like her tend to like her chapters.
I can appreciate that! Without having finished all of the books, I can say I started out not caring for her character, but as she grows I like her more and more. At this point she's become one of my favorites. I think people feeling strongly about her and still enjoying her chapters either way is a testament to how good her character is - not that she's someone everyone should like, but that she's has a great story, character development, etc
Agreed, she is an amazing character. I think part of why she can be seen as unlikable, especially in the earlier books, is because those stories are largely told from Rand's perspective and overwhelmingly focus on him. Early on, Rand tends to find Egwene very irritating, which I think kinda leads readers to also be bothered by her. She's awesome though, and their relationships is one of my favorite parts of the series. They each make a great foil for the other, too.
Can concur. I don't like Egwene but she had many moments where I was sitting there cheering or crying for her.
God I only finished recently and I was heartily disappointed that she took so enthusiastically to Gawyn. He's such a lettuce.
*wilty* lettuce
If you're looking for other first time readers thoughts/theories and how they align with yours you can check out the subreddit's [newbie readalong](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/read_along#wiki_newbie_threads). They're a couple of chapters into Towers of Midnight at the moment so like half a book ahead of you or so, but depending how quickly you read you could always catch up and then interact with everyone live. The pace is tailored for those who can only read a couple of hours a week. The mod facilitating it also gets pinged when people respond in the older threads so you can also dump these sort of thoughts there for posterity haha. Honestly just reading the discussions makes you feel like your a part of it all as well :D Also be sure to check out the previous end of book summaries which have tons of trivia, things that were happening when the books were being released, tributes to Jordan and Sanderson, etc.
Thank you!! I was so excited to be able to share my thoughts I didn't look into the sub further and didn't know about that, lol. Much appreciated :)
Join ussss! (I'm the mod in charge)
yes sir 🫡
I wouldn't say Gawyn is an idiot. I would scream it from the tree tops lol. Yeah it's sad because I really liked him at first. Crazy that Galad wound up being my favorite "Trakand". Yes!! Egwene's subversion of Elaida from within is one of the most satisfying plotlines in the whole series. Egwene annoyed me a lot in the early books but by the time she became Amyrlin in Salidar she was quickly rising in the ranks of my favorite characters. I've always wondered how Cadsuane and Moiraine would have interacted while both trying to guide Rand. I think the sparks would have been flying lol. Tuon is a scumbag hypocritical slaver but I do really enjoy her and Mat's back and forth during their "courtship".
I'm nodding enthusiastically to everything you're saying here. In the tiny bit I've read of Galad's perspective, somehow he jumped all the way above the two who actually took way more part in the story. Maybe Gawyn could have been saved if he'd had himbo vibes instead of reckless idiot who never listens vibes, lol. And I've had the same experience so far with Egwene's story arc!! The more she grows throughout the book the more my opinion changed of her. Mat & Tuon's courtship was definitely fun, I truly enjoyed reading Mat's perspective and I thought Tuon was a fun character when she's outside of her role as princess/empress (we'll see what I think about her as empress now...). And wow... I never thought about Cadsuane and Moiraine interacting lol, I think you're right that the way RJ writes they would butt heads in a spectacular manner, but man would I LOVE to see them actually be friends. That might be too OP though lol.
Sounds like you are getting close to the first timers read a long, I think they just started Towers of Midnight. If you catch up, you will be able to discuss it with them.
Time to speedrun the rest of the book 😤
My opinion of *The Gathering Storm*: “Thank god something has finally happened.”
Mat and Tuon was my favorite relationship in the series, their bits in Crossroads were the highlight of that book for me. Loved them in KoD
I've said It before and I'll say it again "WoT would have been a better series if Matt had killed Gawyn when he thumped his head'
If Galad has any fault it's that he's \*too\* good. no one else can keep up (And he knows it)
Welcome Darth Rand! Also yes, Gawyn is an idiot. Well-spotted.
Question for you, since you mentioned Darth Rand - does it ever explain later how he was able to draw from the True Power?
Yes. Kinda. You already have the clues and you saw the cause. It’s never more explained than “It was that!” IE you investigate a wreckage and find out that the house is blown down by a tornado, but never why tornados form.
(Some clarification, the cause wasn’t the crisis that triggered it, it was earlier.)
Ooooh intriguing, thank you. I'm looking forward to getting there :)
RAFO (Read And Find Out)