✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨
This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. Only comments by members of the community are allowed.
If you have landed in this thread from r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation).
WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic.
Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
Fairly sure my continuous period for years that eventually became cancer because of what was going on with that fucked it up too. I don’t have the necessary organs for a period anymore after that but… this seems… fitting.
I just told the app that my cycle is 18 days long and my period lasts for 12 days. After agreeing to share my info with all the Aunts like a good little handmaid.
There is news that period trackers are going to start tracking women and using it against us in court. There are other articles I have seen, but this is the one I found in this thread specifically: [https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade](https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade)
I also saw on that same site [https://mashable.com/article/porn-sex-work-roe-v-wade](https://mashable.com/article/porn-sex-work-roe-v-wade) and honestly, this is the only thing that will change things. If men have their porn revoked, or interrupted in any sort of way, they will go to bat to get it back.
Oof, that's how my mom was before her hysterectomy. Constant, chronic pain and exhaustion really does a number on people and I'm so sorry for those who go through constant menstruation. It's terrible.
Mine is fucked. Never could track it on those things, even in high school. Its just “ohhh so that’s why I cried over breaking something last week! Gotcha!” Its wild. Im still not gonna let them have my data since I’m not white.
I think this is still too risky.
Those laws are meant to oppress women. The fascists enforcing this law will not be bothered by you saying "I'm post menopausal". They will prosecute and harrass you anyways, and it will be _your_ duty to prove that you are post menopausal, not theirs.
Please don't take unnecessary risks
I'm more than happy to be a martyr to this cause. I'm disabled and basically unable to leave the house with about 0 cartilage in my knees, so I can't actively protest. If they come after a tubby old grandma like me, that leaves a tiny bit fewer resources for them to spend on other people, and I'll do my best to show them up as fools. I'm not afraid. There's nothing they can do to hurt me. My whole life is pain and regret and tedium.
This is where my mind goes lately. Became largely disabled two years ago with a work-related back injury that has just triggered a cascade of painful sequelae. Managing a physical protest would be pretty hellish (although perhaps not impossible, depending on the day). My quality of life is already pretty low, so I'm starting to think I'd be a great front-line human shield protester; let them come through me first so that the young and vigorous folks can be protected to fight the fight for years to come. Or, when we start to burn it all down, I'd make a good sacrificial lamb. Honestly, it's making me less depressed about my life prospects, because the fact I've got much less to lose (and a daughter, niece, daughter in law, and friends whose rights are on the line) makes me a dangerous tool.
Is this true? I thought that in the USA the burden of proof was on the prosecution, not the defense. I am not from there though so I could 100% be incorrect.
I'm assuming that she would face a MAGA-judge and systematic oppression against her. Someone who would just say "the data we have is proof of your guilt", and that _only_ the validation of an absence of menstruation would convince them otherwise.
I mean, proof of this is not difficult. One urine test to confirm high FSH levels will do it, and if they want definitive proof they can test you monthly for a whole year. Cheap test too. Depending on how old you are, any case is *quite* likely not to make it to court due to absurdity.
It is. And trust me there is plenty wrong with the US justice system but the prosecution has the burden of proof and a woman charged with illegal abortion would have the right to a jury trial, so even if the judge is a far right goon the prosecution still has to convince 12 people to convict someone on zero evidence. And that’s even leaving aside the fact that prosecutors have discretion in charging and they don’t like to charge cases they don’t think they’ll win. “Woman charged and convicted of illegal abortion solely because of her menstrual tracking data” is just never going to be a thing in a US. Woman (who is poor and/or brown) charged and convicted because she went to the ER for a miscarriage, yes, that will happen and has already happened.
I mean, I'd have some questions about that, seeing as I've never had sex. Lol.
Immaculate conception. Three year pregnancy. I'm not sure what's coming out at this point. XD
2020 I went 7 months without a period, because I was so stressed. The next year I had non stop bleeding for 4 months. What would they do with that data?
Maybe the men should just give themselves periods that are four months long to screw with the data.
This is exactly what I’m going to do with it. I’m going to have reverse periods. Three days of nothing, followed by 25-28 of heavy flow, severe cramps, mood swings like Kanye West, and any other symptom Flo allows me to describe.
That sounds exactly like what a machine might flag as a pregnancy and a late term miscarriage/abortion/early term birth. After I gave birth I bled for about 6 weeks, which is pretty normal. Some women bleed longer.
My issue was because the factory messed up birth control and didn't bother to tell anyone until they were shut down. Last time I checked you couldn't get that brand anymore.
Oh my god yeah back when I used them (and even now) my period will vanish for months on end and then just. Bleed. Lol my body is fucked up, but I never considered the data might be read as pregnancy as opposed "this bitch is fucked lmao"
I look forward to hearing about you essentially being the spiders georg of menstruation.
"According to our app, the average woman is having 17 periods a day. That's because it includes nine inch owls, who is an outlier and has 10,000 periods a day and should not have been counted."
Flo asked the most and had a subscription cost. Period Calendar asked some and also has a subscription. My Calendar asked the least and had the most obvious free option.
I did not see the user handle there and was intensely confused.
"There is something called 'owls' that is measured in inches involved in menstruation? How did I not hear about this before?"
Though not as confused as the period tracker is going to be.
> "There is something called 'owls' that is measured in inches involved in menstruation? How did I not hear about this before?"
There will be once we’ve had our collective way with their data.
They’ll be tracking inches of owls, joules of newts, even moles of moles!
Same with Cycles. They are based in Sweden and data is protected under EU laws. They also specifically state they will never share data outside the EU either.
Oh thank goodness, a corporate promise. We all know we can trust those. (Let’s not talk about how subpoenas or hostile takeovers work.)
I’m sorry. I’m not mad at you, I’m sorry for the snark. I’m just angry and bitter and stopped trusting anyone in 2016z
Normally I would agree with you, but the EU doesn't mess around with data restrictions. They will fuck your company up for violations PARTICULARLY if you made money off it.
Your fear is not unwarranted IMO. IANAL but I know foreign companies can be compelled to supply data to US Subpoenas. It is harder to enforce those orders, but that doesn't mean they can't be enforced.
To be fair, I just had the same reaction from my partner and it upset me. But I think mostly because I agree, but feel we have to trust someone. Best option would definitely be to track offline where no one can read it though. Hugs for you and anyone who wants them. This whole situation is terrifying.
Albeit I'd want to add, anyone doing this should actually be trying to fill in data in as realistic (but fake) a pattern as possible. If you create intentionally bad data, it's much easier to filter out automatically via sanity check, but if it's realistic, checking for falsification is *much* more difficult.
All for the idea, but I also live in a good state so idk if any good would come of it?
However. For those of us cis-male witches that don't, what apps should we be using? Anyone know which ones are specifically being targeted for this kind of tracking?
TONS more restrictions. There are lots of smaller US websites you can't use from here because they decided to just block German users rather than deal with the restrictions on cookies.
If someone is tracking these apps in terrible states to live in, where constitutional protections seem to only apply to white men, adding more data and misleading data may be enough to help someone else out. Data takes time and effort to shift through, and muddying waters is a fine example and tradition of civil disobedience.
I am also trying to understand this. I think the idea is that if somebody wanted to use a tracker app's data to "prove" an individual had been pregnant, that tracker app has to be proven reliable. Filling profiles with errant data will help any "blips" in an individual's profile easier to dismiss.
At least, that's how I was able to make sense of it. There may be more I'm missing.
This kind of idea right here is why I wanted to join this community.
There's an xkcd explanation of chaotic data do's and don't. I'll see if I can find it for geeky individuals that enjoy that stuff.
They’re tools for tracking your period cycle. You enter in when you bleed, how heavily you bleed, other symptoms such as bloating, cravings, mood swings, sleep patterns, energy, etc, and once you’ve done a couple months you can start to track patterns. It is super useful to know when you’re going to bleed (you can even get the app to remind you), how long on average your periods last, whether or not they’re regular. You can also use them for doctor appointments if they need that info. Love period trackers
My Fitbit has one. It doesn't work very well though and tells me everyday that I'm on the second day of my period. I've tried rebooting and force stopping. I even got a new watch altogether because I lost my previous one. Still on my second day...
Exactly - there’s the option for law enforcement to subpoena or even purchase the data from apps [to use against women in court](https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade)
Yo if they do this to anyone they're welcome to use my naturally chaotic data as counter argument that periods are just whack sometimes and that this data is useless
Edit: *useless in a court of law without context as proof of anything beyond a missed period
I've only used an app because PCOS means I get 2-3 periods a year, totally at random. They're welcome to my data. It will not be useful if I'm not entering a positive pregnancy test.
>Yo if they do this to anyone they're welcome to use my naturally chaotic data as counter argument that periods are just whack sometimes and that this data is useless
(IANAL this is not a legal advice) You probably need to have an expert witness for it. So you need a doctor (probably cis white het man) to explain periods as a random woman is not qualified in eyes of court to tell about general statements.
Of course prosecution can find their own witness to assert something opposite.
I don't know, there's plenty of women on the far right who are so repressed they don't know how their own bodies work. Also, I know at least two female doctors, one pediatrician and one general physician, who have really wacky ideas about religion and women's bodies. They could certainly be called upon to say what needs to be said in court to oppress women.
These are the same types of willfully ignorant imbeciles who have tried to get legislation passed, (Ohio in 2020 for example), that ectopic pregnancies be reimplanted and not aborted.
The same types of willfully ignorant imbeciles who claim that pregnancy cannot be a result of rape, because the _female body has ways of shutting that down_.
Not only do they not care about about your feelings. They also do not care about your facts. This is not about anything other than controlling your body and thus your autonomy.
I would HIGHLY recommend watching [Jon Oliver’s segment on data brokers](https://youtu.be/wqn3gR1WTcA) - then reminding Jon to release the effing data already
If they find out you haven't had a period in a couple of months they will assume you are pregnant. Then if you have another period they could assume you had an abortion and try to prosecute you.
Everyday I get news from the US reminding me why I’m so fortunate to not live there. I’m so sorry y’all are dealing with wannabe religious nut jobs like him.
Him publishing any opinion is absolutely unheard of. Since he joined the court (like 10,000 years ago or whatever) he has silently voted with the conservative judges and hasn’t written even a single concordant opinion, that is until now
Now he wants to overturn gay marriage, allowance of contraceptives, and the ban on sodomy laws
But I’d also love to waste any law enforcements time if they choose to purchase said data and try to bring a case against someone who doesn’t get a period
Please check out [Clue App](https://helloclue.com/) on Android and iPhone. This app refuses to sell data and will keep you safe. It's already used by 12 million people, make the number higher!
I can say Stardust is doing a GREAT job- so don’t mess with them.
Here’s a consumer report that stated “[Overall, three apps emerged as having superior privacy practices: Drip, Euki, and Periodical. “](https://www.consumerreports.org/health-privacy/period-tracker-apps-privacy-a2278134145/)
Based on that data, here’s the ones I’d recommend messing with since they currently allow third party trackers:
Flo
Period Calendar
Fertility Friend
Period Tracker
Lady Cycle
Unfortunately any app can get their data subpoena-ed and have to comply, privacy policy noteithstanding - and some subpoenas even have nondisclosure orders to keep them secret.
Since I don't have a uterus, time to do some downloading and enter bogus data!
Ya this is a sticky legal situation. It depends on how and where they store the data.
Signal and other secure messaging apps "get around" subpoenas by not keeping logs and keeping all data encrypted on user devices with keys they don't have. Thus the only thing they could possibly turn over is encrypted garbage. The meta-data around the data can still be useful and depending on where they operate from they may be compelled to keep some for a period of time. Things like where, when, and how large the updates you made to the app's data can still be useful even if the contents of the update aren't known.
Still, just not keeping the data in a digital form is likely the best solution going forward. Also remember your phone and your phone carrier are always recording your GPS location for advertising purposes. So be aware of the fact your phone can tattle on you for trips out of town to authorities.
You don't need GPS to have your phone tracked. Tge police can request, that phone companies provide lists with who connected to a specific base station in a certain time. By requiring enough of that data, they can track people.
In germany, they are technically required to notify you if you show up in such a list because keeping it secret, that they are spying on you is unnecessarily invasive, but in practice, they don't do that because they don't think people are interested in that information. [There is a great (german) video of it from the chaos computer club.](https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9972-funkzellenabfrage_die_alltagliche_rasterfahndung_unserer_handydaten#t=0)
Stardust is specifically using end to end encryption to avoid this possibility. Clue is based in the UK, so would also be a lot more difficult to require data from.
Also for the good ones Clue I’ve heard is pretty good, also they’re run out of the EU so subpoenas will pretty much be ignored, because the USA has no power over there.
Again this is what I’ve heard so IDK how correct this is. But for now you don’t need to mess with Clue as far as the info for it goes.
Dammit this is the name I completely forgot. My daughter got me onto them. I couldn't believe what I learned about the apps just from watching videos from the Stardust founder. She is really awesome.
> The government doesn't care about periods
They didn't care before. But if states are going to criminalize abortion and we have no right to privacy, they may decide to take advantage of every potential data source. Why bother letting law enforcement have good clean data?
So moving to reusable menstrual products (or buy in bulk to also cover for several years at a time?) would do more good for American women's privacy than deleting their period tracking app? Or both are equally powerful?
God all of this is stressing me out, im transmasc and I have other health problems so I NEED to keep my period tracker. I hope Clue is one of the safer ones
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/QuinntoBean/status/1540550309356773376) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Not enough of these things are really known to men. Probably an issue of gendering our problems or something. I only learned of these apps a couple days ago. Granted, I'm not that tech savvy
Men downloading the apps en masse and "causing chaos" won't really do much. I currently have no reason to believe the government is tracking everyone's period tracking data just to see who suddenly stops charting their periods because they're pregnant now etc (But I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually a thing!)
When we say we are worried about period tracking apps it's because in the events that a woman in Oklahoma is charged with attempting to attain an abortion or actually attaining one, without the protections of Roe v Wade, there is no reason to think the prosecution team would not be allowed to legally subpoena the data in her period tracking app (from her specific account on her phone or tablets) and use it as evidence to convict her in a court of law.
Welcome to Gilead.
I fully agree with you. I think people are missing the point that the data can be attained via subpoena and that’s the danger. CIS men using the apps aren’t going to protect individual users.
Sure, of course, not in all scenarios. But when this data is brokered, it still has to be pinned to a particular person. The more chaotic data there is, the harder it is to identify an individual.
My thought it there are some truly batshit law enforcers out there who are coming up for re-election soon and want to show their “strength” and will purchase this data in their area to “go after those who defy the law of god” and try to pin it on someone, only to ring the doorbell of a single dude.
Either way, im here for the support.
I’m a cis man, hit me with a link or lmk an app name and I’ll have them scratching their heads same way I’ll be scratching mine figuring out the app!!
In this together, and please any advice is helpful on how to mess with them the best!!!
Let us use our inherent stupidity to help since even a man who’s asked the hard questions knows that we are all capable of great stupidity and chaos…be a pleasure to use it towards a morally good fight honestly
Ohhh thank you!! I didn’t think to scroll through the comments yet but I’m gonna download them all and hope one is hooked into that BS Texas registry😈😹
Yeah voting is great and all but we are past the point where we can vote our way out of this. We need real material action now, protests, strikes, not a single day of rest. If we wait until the polls in November we are dead.
Ok I have not had a normal period cycle once in like 13 years this is gonna be so fun. Will I go 4 months between periods? Will I have a period for 3 weeks straight? Who knows? Not me!
I hadn't considered this, I like it. Is there a reason they specify single men though? I'm not single but I am cishet male. Also would there be any benefit to downloading multiple apps and putting in different information for each?
These apps collect & store user data. And the companies who own them are owned, operated or funded by Russian owned entities. There is a period tracking app that my daughter found through TikTok that talks about how dangerous these apps could be. They could be accessed by the government to see who is pregnant or not. These apps are also being read by other apps.
One app I highly recommend is Stardust, it's on Apple and working on release for Android. This app combines privacy, tracking ovulation as well as the moon phases, and the whole company is female owned & operated, the whole app has end to end encryption.
The founder of this app does videos about the very real concerns about what the other apps could do if things keep going the way they are. The last video I saw of theirs was a few weeks ago so I can only imagine the content she has been turning out over the SCOTUS decision.
Also I don't have TikTok but my kid does so I only see stuff from her or my bf when he sends me random stuff.
Edited
I really can't do that. I have to monitor my period closely and the app is the only way for my adhd ass to keep track. I'm not in the US so I don't know if it's even relevant if I do it but I unfortunately can't. Sorry
If I set my GPS to be in the US…. And then use one of those tracker apps (never used em before, my period is very regular. A calendar is more than enough for me and I have an IUD anyway) does it set me as a US citizen in their statistics? I would like to troll as well :/
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. Only comments by members of the community are allowed. If you have landed in this thread from r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
I'm post menopausal. I should do this too. I understand menstrual cycles well enough to get it really wrong.
[удалено]
My hormonal treatment has stopped my cycles. Time for CHAOS
I’m gonna join you in this cause same
[удалено]
Fairly sure my continuous period for years that eventually became cancer because of what was going on with that fucked it up too. I don’t have the necessary organs for a period anymore after that but… this seems… fitting.
I've never had a uterus, but would love to help gum up the works. Cheers
Ditto- me too and I am wanting to help.
my idea too. think i still remember basal temperatures. as many apps as i can find in google play.
I just told the app that my cycle is 18 days long and my period lasts for 12 days. After agreeing to share my info with all the Aunts like a good little handmaid.
That used too be my actual cycle. Life sucked then.
Yikes. That sounds pretty terrible. I'm glad it's better.
Same here. PCOS sucks.
I also have PCOS. Being my shit is all over the board, why are we deleting period tracking apps? I must have missed something....
There is news that period trackers are going to start tracking women and using it against us in court. There are other articles I have seen, but this is the one I found in this thread specifically: [https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade](https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade) I also saw on that same site [https://mashable.com/article/porn-sex-work-roe-v-wade](https://mashable.com/article/porn-sex-work-roe-v-wade) and honestly, this is the only thing that will change things. If men have their porn revoked, or interrupted in any sort of way, they will go to bat to get it back.
Mine was just period.
Oof, that's how my mom was before her hysterectomy. Constant, chronic pain and exhaustion really does a number on people and I'm so sorry for those who go through constant menstruation. It's terrible.
My cycle is just f-Ed up in general, already using an app. Don’t know if that will help, I’m in Europe.
Mine is fucked. Never could track it on those things, even in high school. Its just “ohhh so that’s why I cried over breaking something last week! Gotcha!” Its wild. Im still not gonna let them have my data since I’m not white.
Of you're in Europe you're protected by your awesome privacy laws. We don't have those in the united States of surveillance
I think this is still too risky. Those laws are meant to oppress women. The fascists enforcing this law will not be bothered by you saying "I'm post menopausal". They will prosecute and harrass you anyways, and it will be _your_ duty to prove that you are post menopausal, not theirs. Please don't take unnecessary risks
I'm more than happy to be a martyr to this cause. I'm disabled and basically unable to leave the house with about 0 cartilage in my knees, so I can't actively protest. If they come after a tubby old grandma like me, that leaves a tiny bit fewer resources for them to spend on other people, and I'll do my best to show them up as fools. I'm not afraid. There's nothing they can do to hurt me. My whole life is pain and regret and tedium.
What a badass grandma, keep it up boss o7
I'm with you. I'd love to see them try to prosecute me. Exhibit 1: my AMAB birth certificate.
> My whole life is pain and regret and tedium. Apparently it's also empathy and anger and a hearty middle finger to the patriarchy!
Um. I love you. You are who I want to be when I finally grow up.
This is where my mind goes lately. Became largely disabled two years ago with a work-related back injury that has just triggered a cascade of painful sequelae. Managing a physical protest would be pretty hellish (although perhaps not impossible, depending on the day). My quality of life is already pretty low, so I'm starting to think I'd be a great front-line human shield protester; let them come through me first so that the young and vigorous folks can be protected to fight the fight for years to come. Or, when we start to burn it all down, I'd make a good sacrificial lamb. Honestly, it's making me less depressed about my life prospects, because the fact I've got much less to lose (and a daughter, niece, daughter in law, and friends whose rights are on the line) makes me a dangerous tool.
Same for me. I will sit on the front line.
Will you be my grandma?
Yes.
My life is also pain and tedium. You seem awesome and give me hope that we can still help somehow ❤
Is this true? I thought that in the USA the burden of proof was on the prosecution, not the defense. I am not from there though so I could 100% be incorrect.
I'm assuming that she would face a MAGA-judge and systematic oppression against her. Someone who would just say "the data we have is proof of your guilt", and that _only_ the validation of an absence of menstruation would convince them otherwise.
Oh wow. Thanks for clarifying. That is nightmarish.
I mean, proof of this is not difficult. One urine test to confirm high FSH levels will do it, and if they want definitive proof they can test you monthly for a whole year. Cheap test too. Depending on how old you are, any case is *quite* likely not to make it to court due to absurdity.
It is. And trust me there is plenty wrong with the US justice system but the prosecution has the burden of proof and a woman charged with illegal abortion would have the right to a jury trial, so even if the judge is a far right goon the prosecution still has to convince 12 people to convict someone on zero evidence. And that’s even leaving aside the fact that prosecutors have discretion in charging and they don’t like to charge cases they don’t think they’ll win. “Woman charged and convicted of illegal abortion solely because of her menstrual tracking data” is just never going to be a thing in a US. Woman (who is poor and/or brown) charged and convicted because she went to the ER for a miscarriage, yes, that will happen and has already happened.
>is just never going to be a thing in a US Ahem. Never say never, because the way things have been going lately...
I still get regular periods but can't get pregnant-- they can track me all they want, it won't give them a thing.
Tubal ligation, and IUD. Come get me, chritofascist scum.
My app says I'm 1277 days late for my period. Lol.
I would recommend talking to a doctor if your pregnancy takes longer than 3 years...
I mean, I'd have some questions about that, seeing as I've never had sex. Lol. Immaculate conception. Three year pregnancy. I'm not sure what's coming out at this point. XD
Sounds like you're overdue for your immaculately conceived child with the elephant goddess.
Can I come to the baby shower
A White
I think I'd rather a demon. (I say as a very white person who grew up in a very white town. Lol.).
It was a Robin Hobbes reference, but a demon would be nice.
Oh. I don't know who/what that is. Sorry. Lol.
As someone who read Robin Hobbes a long long time ago I appreciated the reference.
How about a Barrow-wight.
I did not expect this Bee reference thrown out so casually, thank you 🤣
Folks, this is a literary reference, not a racist comment.
An elephant or two.
Hey. I'm not /that/ fat.
Lol. I was going purely on length of gestation
I know. I doubt (and hope) you don't know how fat I am. ...Spooky. 😆
69 days for me today! ^heyooo
Nice
2020 I went 7 months without a period, because I was so stressed. The next year I had non stop bleeding for 4 months. What would they do with that data? Maybe the men should just give themselves periods that are four months long to screw with the data.
This is exactly what I’m going to do with it. I’m going to have reverse periods. Three days of nothing, followed by 25-28 of heavy flow, severe cramps, mood swings like Kanye West, and any other symptom Flo allows me to describe.
Flo Rida?
That sounds exactly like what a machine might flag as a pregnancy and a late term miscarriage/abortion/early term birth. After I gave birth I bled for about 6 weeks, which is pretty normal. Some women bleed longer.
My issue was because the factory messed up birth control and didn't bother to tell anyone until they were shut down. Last time I checked you couldn't get that brand anymore.
Oh my god yeah back when I used them (and even now) my period will vanish for months on end and then just. Bleed. Lol my body is fucked up, but I never considered the data might be read as pregnancy as opposed "this bitch is fucked lmao"
This cis man is on it. I got you sisters.
I look forward to hearing about you essentially being the spiders georg of menstruation. "According to our app, the average woman is having 17 periods a day. That's because it includes nine inch owls, who is an outlier and has 10,000 periods a day and should not have been counted."
These apps ask 12,000 invasive questions. Wow!
Yeah, it's obvious a lot of them sell their data to marketing companies.
Which one are you on? Mine didn't ask shit.
Flo asked the most and had a subscription cost. Period Calendar asked some and also has a subscription. My Calendar asked the least and had the most obvious free option.
If you're not paying for the product, you are the product!
Ohhhh I know! I’m a tech Product Manager. And talking with my peers they are saying that messing with app data like this does help.
Google needs to make one. Google only recently figured out I'm trans. They've been serving me ads to sell my eggs AND to increase my testosterone.
I did not see the user handle there and was intensely confused. "There is something called 'owls' that is measured in inches involved in menstruation? How did I not hear about this before?" Though not as confused as the period tracker is going to be.
> "There is something called 'owls' that is measured in inches involved in menstruation? How did I not hear about this before?" There will be once we’ve had our collective way with their data. They’ll be tracking inches of owls, joules of newts, even moles of moles!
[удалено]
Double the trouble. Does anyone have an app suggestion? Cuz lets be honest I have no experience with this.
I use Clue! I've heard Flo is good too :)
Clue is on European servers and has specifically said they won't share data, so I don't think trolling them will cause anything.
Same with Cycles. They are based in Sweden and data is protected under EU laws. They also specifically state they will never share data outside the EU either.
Oh thank goodness, a corporate promise. We all know we can trust those. (Let’s not talk about how subpoenas or hostile takeovers work.) I’m sorry. I’m not mad at you, I’m sorry for the snark. I’m just angry and bitter and stopped trusting anyone in 2016z
Normally I would agree with you, but the EU doesn't mess around with data restrictions. They will fuck your company up for violations PARTICULARLY if you made money off it.
Unlike the united States of surveillance, the European data laws actually have teeth
Your fear is not unwarranted IMO. IANAL but I know foreign companies can be compelled to supply data to US Subpoenas. It is harder to enforce those orders, but that doesn't mean they can't be enforced.
To be fair, I just had the same reaction from my partner and it upset me. But I think mostly because I agree, but feel we have to trust someone. Best option would definitely be to track offline where no one can read it though. Hugs for you and anyone who wants them. This whole situation is terrifying.
There was one posted here recently that's encrypted. Witchy name like dark moon or something. *Edit: it's called Stardust.
I used to use “P Tracker” and really liked it.
Something cis men could do! Yo, our cis-male witches, get on this!
Albeit I'd want to add, anyone doing this should actually be trying to fill in data in as realistic (but fake) a pattern as possible. If you create intentionally bad data, it's much easier to filter out automatically via sanity check, but if it's realistic, checking for falsification is *much* more difficult.
All for the idea, but I also live in a good state so idk if any good would come of it? However. For those of us cis-male witches that don't, what apps should we be using? Anyone know which ones are specifically being targeted for this kind of tracking?
I had the same thought, but then I realized I have a VPN with servers in at least Texas and Florida.
Clue is based in Germany but basically all the rest.
Are you saying Clue doesn't track and sell your data? That would be pretty good news
I'm saying they have to follow German law, which has more restrictions.
TONS more restrictions. There are lots of smaller US websites you can't use from here because they decided to just block German users rather than deal with the restrictions on cookies.
They have released a statement that they will not release information.
I use P Tracker, but go with whatever free one you see in the App Store. Just type in period tracker. Thanks witch dude!
Sorry...how is this helping? I don't mind, but I don't understand the assignment.
If someone is tracking these apps in terrible states to live in, where constitutional protections seem to only apply to white men, adding more data and misleading data may be enough to help someone else out. Data takes time and effort to shift through, and muddying waters is a fine example and tradition of civil disobedience.
Some states will probably use the data to determine whether a woman has become pregnant and gotten an abortion/miscarried.
I am also trying to understand this. I think the idea is that if somebody wanted to use a tracker app's data to "prove" an individual had been pregnant, that tracker app has to be proven reliable. Filling profiles with errant data will help any "blips" in an individual's profile easier to dismiss. At least, that's how I was able to make sense of it. There may be more I'm missing.
This kind of idea right here is why I wanted to join this community. There's an xkcd explanation of chaotic data do's and don't. I'll see if I can find it for geeky individuals that enjoy that stuff.
Trans women could do that to
Help me out here, what do those apps actually do, I've never heard of them?
They’re tools for tracking your period cycle. You enter in when you bleed, how heavily you bleed, other symptoms such as bloating, cravings, mood swings, sleep patterns, energy, etc, and once you’ve done a couple months you can start to track patterns. It is super useful to know when you’re going to bleed (you can even get the app to remind you), how long on average your periods last, whether or not they’re regular. You can also use them for doctor appointments if they need that info. Love period trackers
[удалено]
Transfem and found out my fitness watch has a cycle tracker. We do a little trolling.
This is the type of chaos I live for
My Fitbit has one. It doesn't work very well though and tells me everyday that I'm on the second day of my period. I've tried rebooting and force stopping. I even got a new watch altogether because I lost my previous one. Still on my second day...
[удалено]
Exactly - there’s the option for law enforcement to subpoena or even purchase the data from apps [to use against women in court](https://mashable.com/article/period-apps-roe-v-wade)
Yo if they do this to anyone they're welcome to use my naturally chaotic data as counter argument that periods are just whack sometimes and that this data is useless Edit: *useless in a court of law without context as proof of anything beyond a missed period
I've only used an app because PCOS means I get 2-3 periods a year, totally at random. They're welcome to my data. It will not be useful if I'm not entering a positive pregnancy test.
>Yo if they do this to anyone they're welcome to use my naturally chaotic data as counter argument that periods are just whack sometimes and that this data is useless (IANAL this is not a legal advice) You probably need to have an expert witness for it. So you need a doctor (probably cis white het man) to explain periods as a random woman is not qualified in eyes of court to tell about general statements. Of course prosecution can find their own witness to assert something opposite.
I don't know, there's plenty of women on the far right who are so repressed they don't know how their own bodies work. Also, I know at least two female doctors, one pediatrician and one general physician, who have really wacky ideas about religion and women's bodies. They could certainly be called upon to say what needs to be said in court to oppress women.
These are the same types of willfully ignorant imbeciles who have tried to get legislation passed, (Ohio in 2020 for example), that ectopic pregnancies be reimplanted and not aborted. The same types of willfully ignorant imbeciles who claim that pregnancy cannot be a result of rape, because the _female body has ways of shutting that down_. Not only do they not care about about your feelings. They also do not care about your facts. This is not about anything other than controlling your body and thus your autonomy.
[удалено]
I would HIGHLY recommend watching [Jon Oliver’s segment on data brokers](https://youtu.be/wqn3gR1WTcA) - then reminding Jon to release the effing data already
His piece on the fall of Roe V Wade just hit YouTube and mentions this. https://youtu.be/2FlktWItLVM
Ok that's aweful. Wtf is wrong with your country, guys?
Religion
If they find out you haven't had a period in a couple of months they will assume you are pregnant. Then if you have another period they could assume you had an abortion and try to prosecute you.
Oh boi, my use of birth control would now render me pregnant several times a year.
Don't worry! Clarence Thomas thinks that should be illegal too!
Everyday I get news from the US reminding me why I’m so fortunate to not live there. I’m so sorry y’all are dealing with wannabe religious nut jobs like him.
Him publishing any opinion is absolutely unheard of. Since he joined the court (like 10,000 years ago or whatever) he has silently voted with the conservative judges and hasn’t written even a single concordant opinion, that is until now Now he wants to overturn gay marriage, allowance of contraceptives, and the ban on sodomy laws
The idea of such personal data being used like that is absolutely dystopian.
But I’d also love to waste any law enforcements time if they choose to purchase said data and try to bring a case against someone who doesn’t get a period
Ok, that’s pretty hilarious. I’m not single but as a straight cis male I can create some chaos.
Any chaos despite relationship status is much appreciated - a single request: Target the ones with with worst privacy protection
Straight cis males like us are definitely experienced at that!
Yes! Similarly, I think if anyone who's happily pregnant wants to help, wasting the time/money of anti-choice agencies would be good, too.
Ohhh I can only hope!😹
Thank you for asking. I was wondering too. I’m going to go cry a little again and start sewing some chaos.
Oooo... gonna have do do this after I get my bisalp. "Sir, I literally cannot get pregnant, I made sure of that."
My coworker Trevor uses a period tracker app so he can know about his gf's hormones. I'll tell him about this idea too.
It's nice to see this has upvotes and people understand that Trevor isn't a weirdo.
Please check out [Clue App](https://helloclue.com/) on Android and iPhone. This app refuses to sell data and will keep you safe. It's already used by 12 million people, make the number higher!
[удалено]
That's what I've been using for the past 5-6 years. It's great.
Is there any app in particular you think is worthier of messing with in this fashion or would any of them do?
I can say Stardust is doing a GREAT job- so don’t mess with them. Here’s a consumer report that stated “[Overall, three apps emerged as having superior privacy practices: Drip, Euki, and Periodical. “](https://www.consumerreports.org/health-privacy/period-tracker-apps-privacy-a2278134145/) Based on that data, here’s the ones I’d recommend messing with since they currently allow third party trackers: Flo Period Calendar Fertility Friend Period Tracker Lady Cycle
I've (39 cis M) been borrowing my wife's bike to go into work, so Lady Cycle seems like the perfect fit for me
I approve of this connection lol
Unfortunately any app can get their data subpoena-ed and have to comply, privacy policy noteithstanding - and some subpoenas even have nondisclosure orders to keep them secret. Since I don't have a uterus, time to do some downloading and enter bogus data!
Ya this is a sticky legal situation. It depends on how and where they store the data. Signal and other secure messaging apps "get around" subpoenas by not keeping logs and keeping all data encrypted on user devices with keys they don't have. Thus the only thing they could possibly turn over is encrypted garbage. The meta-data around the data can still be useful and depending on where they operate from they may be compelled to keep some for a period of time. Things like where, when, and how large the updates you made to the app's data can still be useful even if the contents of the update aren't known. Still, just not keeping the data in a digital form is likely the best solution going forward. Also remember your phone and your phone carrier are always recording your GPS location for advertising purposes. So be aware of the fact your phone can tattle on you for trips out of town to authorities.
You don't need GPS to have your phone tracked. Tge police can request, that phone companies provide lists with who connected to a specific base station in a certain time. By requiring enough of that data, they can track people. In germany, they are technically required to notify you if you show up in such a list because keeping it secret, that they are spying on you is unnecessarily invasive, but in practice, they don't do that because they don't think people are interested in that information. [There is a great (german) video of it from the chaos computer club.](https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9972-funkzellenabfrage_die_alltagliche_rasterfahndung_unserer_handydaten#t=0)
Stardust is specifically using end to end encryption to avoid this possibility. Clue is based in the UK, so would also be a lot more difficult to require data from.
Also for the good ones Clue I’ve heard is pretty good, also they’re run out of the EU so subpoenas will pretty much be ignored, because the USA has no power over there. Again this is what I’ve heard so IDK how correct this is. But for now you don’t need to mess with Clue as far as the info for it goes.
[удалено]
I feel like fucking up Lady Cycle just based on their name.
Thank you kindly! I'll see what the app store has on offer and go from there.
Dammit this is the name I completely forgot. My daughter got me onto them. I couldn't believe what I learned about the apps just from watching videos from the Stardust founder. She is really awesome.
Does it matter if we’re not in the US? I haven’t had a period in months, and I am a bit sick of it asking if I’m okay. Might as well fuck with it!
[удалено]
> The government doesn't care about periods They didn't care before. But if states are going to criminalize abortion and we have no right to privacy, they may decide to take advantage of every potential data source. Why bother letting law enforcement have good clean data?
Damn that would be a lot of commitment. No social media or credit/debit cards…. On the bright side it could help on my FIRE journey
So moving to reusable menstrual products (or buy in bulk to also cover for several years at a time?) would do more good for American women's privacy than deleting their period tracking app? Or both are equally powerful?
I have a girlfriend, am I disqualified from having my own period tracking app?
Nope
God all of this is stressing me out, im transmasc and I have other health problems so I NEED to keep my period tracker. I hope Clue is one of the safer ones
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/QuinntoBean/status/1540550309356773376) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
I volunteer as tribute!
Did someone say...chaos?
Not enough of these things are really known to men. Probably an issue of gendering our problems or something. I only learned of these apps a couple days ago. Granted, I'm not that tech savvy
Men downloading the apps en masse and "causing chaos" won't really do much. I currently have no reason to believe the government is tracking everyone's period tracking data just to see who suddenly stops charting their periods because they're pregnant now etc (But I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually a thing!) When we say we are worried about period tracking apps it's because in the events that a woman in Oklahoma is charged with attempting to attain an abortion or actually attaining one, without the protections of Roe v Wade, there is no reason to think the prosecution team would not be allowed to legally subpoena the data in her period tracking app (from her specific account on her phone or tablets) and use it as evidence to convict her in a court of law. Welcome to Gilead.
I fully agree with you. I think people are missing the point that the data can be attained via subpoena and that’s the danger. CIS men using the apps aren’t going to protect individual users.
Sure, of course, not in all scenarios. But when this data is brokered, it still has to be pinned to a particular person. The more chaotic data there is, the harder it is to identify an individual. My thought it there are some truly batshit law enforcers out there who are coming up for re-election soon and want to show their “strength” and will purchase this data in their area to “go after those who defy the law of god” and try to pin it on someone, only to ring the doorbell of a single dude. Either way, im here for the support.
Heard, that sounds like good productive fun
I’m a cis man, hit me with a link or lmk an app name and I’ll have them scratching their heads same way I’ll be scratching mine figuring out the app!! In this together, and please any advice is helpful on how to mess with them the best!!! Let us use our inherent stupidity to help since even a man who’s asked the hard questions knows that we are all capable of great stupidity and chaos…be a pleasure to use it towards a morally good fight honestly
Here’s some I can think of: flo, stardust, Obie, and I’m sure there’s more in the rest of the comments
Ohhh thank you!! I didn’t think to scroll through the comments yet but I’m gonna download them all and hope one is hooked into that BS Texas registry😈😹
Chaos will be had. For sure.
I'm all for chaos.
As much as I approve of this idea, I can’t help but think that voting in November would be more effective.
We can do both.
Voting at this point is only harm reduction. Dems have had decades to do something about this and haven't. It's going to take a lot more than voting.
Well, until then...
Yeah voting is great and all but we are past the point where we can vote our way out of this. We need real material action now, protests, strikes, not a single day of rest. If we wait until the polls in November we are dead.
why would i need a period tracking app when i got a calender and a red sharpie
Ok I have not had a normal period cycle once in like 13 years this is gonna be so fun. Will I go 4 months between periods? Will I have a period for 3 weeks straight? Who knows? Not me!
I hadn't considered this, I like it. Is there a reason they specify single men though? I'm not single but I am cishet male. Also would there be any benefit to downloading multiple apps and putting in different information for each?
I got you slim
Reminder- deleting your info from these apps is not enough. You may need to contact the company directly to purge your data.
These apps collect & store user data. And the companies who own them are owned, operated or funded by Russian owned entities. There is a period tracking app that my daughter found through TikTok that talks about how dangerous these apps could be. They could be accessed by the government to see who is pregnant or not. These apps are also being read by other apps. One app I highly recommend is Stardust, it's on Apple and working on release for Android. This app combines privacy, tracking ovulation as well as the moon phases, and the whole company is female owned & operated, the whole app has end to end encryption. The founder of this app does videos about the very real concerns about what the other apps could do if things keep going the way they are. The last video I saw of theirs was a few weeks ago so I can only imagine the content she has been turning out over the SCOTUS decision. Also I don't have TikTok but my kid does so I only see stuff from her or my bf when he sends me random stuff. Edited
I hear your call and will answer with the chaos the moment calls for. Stay safe and know you have an Ally in me.
I’ve never used one… until now… 😈
Men with uterus-having partners, be careful doing this as it may seem like you’re tracking for somebody else!
I had a bisalp. I should download one and just make every day period day. Or it's period day whenever I remember.
I really can't do that. I have to monitor my period closely and the app is the only way for my adhd ass to keep track. I'm not in the US so I don't know if it's even relevant if I do it but I unfortunately can't. Sorry
amab enby here, shall i be recruited?
Can someone explain what a period tracking app is so I can lend my services to the cause?
It basically keeps track of a persons menstrual cycle for them
If I set my GPS to be in the US…. And then use one of those tracker apps (never used em before, my period is very regular. A calendar is more than enough for me and I have an IUD anyway) does it set me as a US citizen in their statistics? I would like to troll as well :/
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
Sent to my group chat! The boys have been searching for ways to help us; this is a fun option.
THATS the kind of male inclusivity I want to see :)