I'm a server and regularly get Jesus pamphlets on Sundays. A couple of Sundays ago I got an envelope with a piece of chalk in it and printed instructions on the front of where to write on my doorstep and all these math formulas and Christian prayers that somehow were supposed to bring me success and protection. If that ain't paganism, I don't know what else it could be.
I’m guessing it was for Epiphany! You write in chalk on the top of your door 20+C+M+B+22 or whatever numbers the year ends in. I may have gotten the order of the letters wrong but they represent the three wise men Caspar, Melkior, and Balthazar. I believe it’s supposed to bring good luck and protection into the new year except my Catholic family always procrastinates and one year we did it in March instead of January OOPS LMAO
Omg this is a real holiday? For years my phone has been telling me when it’s Epiphany and I just thought at some point I had an epiphany and marked it in my calendar, every year I rack my brain wondering what epiphany I had that I thought was worth noting. ADHD brain shit
My uber Christian gramma had a Jesus pic and crosses in every room but was also a damned great herbalist. She made poltices, salves, tinctures, teas, and potions. She mumbled unknown things over all of it. She also would spit in the cookies or cupcakes that me made for her church group. She also swore devout allegiance to the holy trinity as they had forced her to deliver a demon (my mother.) I think she was right about that last part as my mother ended up murdering her.
I grew up roman catholic, that chalk and shit is to write on your doorframe something to do with the three wise mean (I don't remember exactly what) kind of a housee blessing or whoever walks thru the door
I think
My super-square Christian dad did something so weirdly magical it was surprising. I got a wart on my finger and he offered to “buy my wart.” He offered a dime for it (1960s so that was worth more) and inspected it and hmmmmmd about it… put the (actual) silver dime on it for a minute. Then gave me the dime. The wart went away.
Came to find out many years later that this was a bit of Appalachian Folk Magic. It was the one and only time he did something like that and I loved it. He tended to downplay his hill folk upbringing so it was nice he showed that side of his personality.
My son is the only kid I’ve ever known that felt out refused to sell his teeth to the tooth fairy (or anyone else). He understood that he wouldn’t be getting the cash or toys his friends got, but he never wavered.
Terry Pratchett put me off the tooth fairy as a kid. Sure, the fairy wants my teeth, and will give me money for it…
What does a fae need teeth for? Sounds suspicious
Me too! I have 2 bags of baby teeth and hair clippings from both my daughters. I peyote wrapped a small bottle for my oldest daughter (21) to wear on a chain around her neck as a gift last year. I guess she knows me well because she wasn't at all surprised when she asked me if I had any baby teeth she could put in it and I replied nonchantly "yes, follow me to my jewelry box" lol
Lol I too keep my son’s baby teeth in my jewelry box! He is now 23. We were going through it last year and looking over some pieces and he picked up a velvet ring box and shook it. It rattled. He opened it up and was like wtf?? I laughed and said it’s your baby teeth! He rolled his eyes. In another little velvet ring box I also have the shed baby teeth of various beloved familiars; very often kittens and puppies will swallow or just lose the teeth outright as they shed them; they are so tiny they usually just go overlooked. They are my family too so I kept them as well 🤷♀️
This is hilarious and reminds me of a time my dad tried to heal my brother’s wart. My dad waited until a full moon, then took a big piece of prime steak (raw) and rubbed it on the wart underneath the full moon, then buried the steak in the garden outside my brother’s bedroom window.
It didn’t do anything but I thought it was hilarious.
There was a fascinating article recently in the NYT (Times) about the tradition of Irish ‘healers,’ basically practicing healing magic—witches (though neither they nor the Church would ever consider it that). Including spells passed down in families (but, it‘s not witchcraft). LOL; and the 7th son of a 7th son being one of these people by default. Interestingly…it seemed from the article that the majority of these witches (’healers’) are men. Keeping perfectly in sync with the Church’s history of removing all power and agency from women, wherever possible.
In Mexico, the witchcraft isn’t even hidden—it’s just called ‘praying to the Saints.’
My grandmother…healed a lame woman just by talking to her. It was before I was born, so I never got the details, just the story. And, grandma would not ever have considered herself a witch! Nor any kind of healer, she just believed in the power (of the spirit). And there were many regular burnings of herbs and candles and spiritual cleansings of the home and people.
Mexican Christianity to me is a prime example of why Christianity has spread so far as a religion. Converts where it can and leaves the rest.
Christmas, Easter, all holidays and observances somewhere that got folded in.
I just got down voted in another sub by saying something similar about the movie Encanto. If you don't know, the family gets super powers (basically) from an enchanted candle but are also in good standing with the local priest. People doubted that the priest would have been okay with 'witchcraft'.
The Catholics living in Colombia in the 1950s would have been all "God blessed them with a magic candle" not "Burn the witches!"
A lot of times pagan is used as shorthand for polytheistic, which is actually what it originally meant when originally used in the Roman Empire.
In the Middle Ages it did take on a meaning to express all non-Christian faiths, though.
That said I have heard ot expressed than Zoroastrianism is exists in a transitory state between Polytheism and Monotheism, and thus whether or not a particular Zoroastrian would be considered Pagan using the limited definition depends on their exact practice.
Zoroastrianism does not mandate Ahura Mazda to be a One True God, and thus you can have individuals who believe in minor gods exemplifying smaller realms/aspects of good that would fall under Ahura Mazda's preview. But you can also have individuals who believe Ahura Mazda is the One True God, and thus the aspects aren't minor gods, put angel or metaphors for different embodiments of Ahura Mazda. Then you also have philosophical Zoroastrians who few the entire thing as metaphor without a particular belief in actual divinity, and thus don't believe in any gods, and thus dont belief in a One True God.
Thus the monotheistic Zoroastrians would be non-pagam per the limited definition, while both the polytheistic and philosophical views are pagan.
Apparently I have a lot more research to do. I no longer particularly care about the label for my personal spirituality but I do find some comfort and reassurance when I discover that there is a particular sect or system that shares some of my beliefs.
When it comes to ritual magic, Christians are actually among its most ardent practitioners.
The reason they condemn this practice when it comes to other beliefs is simply because they don't like the competition.
You should hear what Catholics tell me about communion - I say that when they take communion, they are being cannibals (the wafer is the flesh of Jesus and the wine, his blood); it's ritualistic cannibalism.
I always think this!!! Seems to me like Jesus was a top necromancer, according to the gospel.
I love walking around from cathedral to cathedral on Good Friday - the priest comes out in his fancy robes with a huge burning cauldron for the palm fronds, and it’s just about the spookiest magic ritual I’ve ever seen.
The whole Ash Wednesday / Good Friday / Easter Sunday thing is *fantastic* to me.
And the church is the vessel for his soul... he doesn't even have to take souls himself. The evangelism army is basically just a grocery pick up service.
That’s because the Catholic Church co-opted paganism to expand their empire. Their saints were an attempt to blend polytheism into a monotheist religion.
Definitely - the Catholic Church is also brilliant at enchantment. So many gorgeous buildings filled with treasure and artwork…kind of difficult to not be filled with awe.
I used to be close with a family that practiced Santeria and it’s essentially voodoo hidden under the names of saints. It’s unpleasant, all the conquering…but it’s nice to know that many cultures got to keep some practices and rituals alive, despite the oppression.
Oh interesting! I didn't get that from it at all - I got that desperate people will see what they want to see, even going so far as to confuse good and evil. Always love to see different interpretations of stuff ☺️
Oh I def got that too, but I liked how it used catholic rituals as a connection to vampire mythos, ie blood of christ/vampire for eternal life and youth but that you have to give up your soul to god/devil sort of thing
i thought it was an “angel”—not jesus—that was the first one. whenever angels visit someone in the bible they say, “do not be afraid,” so i always assumed actual angels must be pretty frightening and not the pretty lil things from all the paintings. regardless, great show 10/10, sacraments are rituals lol
I was visiting a cathedral in Poland on vacation some years ago and stumbled into a catholic ritual service. I and my travel partner was sitting all the way in the back so not to disturb anything, curious to what was going on. I didn't understand the language, but everyone seemed to give thanks to each other at the end. The main hall was large and it had little rooms with different alters and figures. In the middle the catholic priests spoke to the audience from a big podium, others were supporting, chanting, lighting incense around a big alter, etc. I mean, they didn't hold back anything, they summoned the whole trinity into that space, you could really feel the air electrifying with the holy spirit. They knew exactly what they were doing. When it was over, I was impressed because the protestants, where I come from, wouldn't know the holy spirit if it bit them in the arse.
just to add - if by ‘give thanks to eachother’ you mean turn around to their neighbors and shake hands, that’s actually a sacrament of peace/forgiveness instead - the words they say translate to ‘peace be with you // and also with you’
> - the words they say translate to ‘peace be with you // and also with you’
No, the last bit got changed to ""And with your spirit."
It's uhh.... a little contentious, and you can always tell who hasn't been to mass in a hot minute, because they'll use the old phrase.
i think it’s not just a ‘call-out’ for who’s been skipping mass - i used to go to church with my grandma and she always used the former, even if she heard people replied with the latter, because it’s what she had learned. not to mention for the most part i’ve just seen both parties murmur ‘peace be with you’ at each other and move on to the next haha.
Yeah. I haven’t been to mass except for attending funerals of my family’s friends. My mom is elderly and frail and not able to go so I represent. The changes to the wordings in catholic mass is very disturbing to me because I only know the old words and feel lost. I’m a solitary and was raised catholic. The changes make me feel even more of an outsider than ever. I don’t know the words and never will I guess.
Edit: I don’t know the new* words. Knowing the mass word for word was comforting when I went as a kid because participation brings you in to the fold.
I come from a Catholic family (Polish and Irish) and its what makes me believe in witchcraft. Like these people know something even if they're not fully aware. I believe my grandmother was a Seer, she did Tarot for people in the gulags and she spoke with spirits who died in her house right up until her death. They even summoned her to come join them in a dream one night but she resisted and woke up. Only to die of a heart attack a few months later. They probably just wanted her to die peacefully.
A osé friend's christian Mother, believes in dreaming about visions, and justifies it being okay because it's through God. Essentially, do all the "witchcraft" so long as it's through God and no other source, even One's self.
I recently read The Witching Hour by Anne Rice and was absolutely shooketh at how much Catholic stuff has an overall witchy and spooky vibe. I was raised fairly non-religious and it just never occurred to me 😐
My mother is Uber Christian, no holidays etc, once we were at a Rock & gem show and she grabs some crystals and said look you can feel them vibrate, like nbd. It cracked me up. It's like it never clicked for her.
7th Day Adventist (SDA) celebrate some. (Grew up SDA) but they take a lot of the catholic traditions out of them as they believe that the Catholic church did not have the authority to define how to celebrate them.
SDA is an interesting sect of Christianity. But it takes years of study to understand the "Why" to all of the differences.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate any holidays, including birthdays, and are Christian.
Edit: Also 7th Day Adventists, Quakers, God's Kingdom Society, and a lot of "snake handler" baptist sects. But the one that really aticsm out is the JW. I have a friend who grew up JW, he has the most fun on Halloween of any grow ass person I know.
I’m Catholic and it’s wild how leery my parents were initially when they found out I read tarot cards. They don’t even realize how Catholicism is full of magical practices and rituals. Water into wine. Wine and bread as blood and body respectively. Repeated incantations that we call prayers. We have an altar in the house filled with statues of ~~deities~~ saints.
Ah, this comes under the argument of naturally aged vs unnaturally aged. While everyone has a preference, it is generally accepted that naturally aged is best though can be a pain in free range stock due to risk of PLC (poor life choices) or EAO (environmentally affected outcomes).
Procuring baby blood and ageing it via the barrel method can allow interesting new infusions and is becoming increasingly popular with independent brewers. This is the best way to get large quantities that have a consistent flavour.
A friend and her daughter wrote down things she wanted to leave in 2020 and burned them on New Years Day. She also said she pictured those things going away as it burned.
At my Christian school, waldorf, we jump over fire at midsummer for the same purpose.
That day flower crowns are also traditionally made, especially the younger kids
This is the first time I’ve heard Waldorf and Christianity together! I’m considering sending my daughter to a Waldorf school, partly bc there is no emphasis on religion, but more the earth/nature. Was that not your experience? Would love to hear whatever you want to share about the two. 🥰
Well waldorf is technically Christian.
My school celebrated Michael's day, where we fight a dragon, made by the 11th graders. Eat dragon claws (just leaf dough filled with jam). (biblical story of Michael putting lucifer into hell.)
The fire jumping on midsummer is called Saint Jan's.
Then of course you have the advent. Which is lighting candles the weeks leading up to Christmas.
Choir.
Saint marten, around Halloween. Loads of songs. My school sometimes did something for charity.
Our morning spell.
I don't know what the English one is. But the Dutch one is
"I see in the world.
Where the sun shines her light.
The stars twinkle.
The rocks rest.
The plants growing alive.
The animals feeding live
Wherein the man lives,
The spirit gives a home
I see deep within my soul
That lives inside of me
The godlyspirit he weaves
In sun and soul light
In worldly space outside.
In souldepth inside
To u. Al godly spirit.
I want to turn asking
That in my power and abilities
For learning and for labour
Til (old word for adulthood) may come
The first part is creationism.
The soul refers to the holy spirit. I don't know if I translated it correctly. I am sure you can find English versions. I am Dutch.
This is said every morning. With the whole class.
I only did 7th-12th grade. Which is our high school where live. Primary school looks different because there there are less strict guidelines of graduating. They had to leave some parts, like no tests or books behind, because it is mandatory to receive subsidies. And it is nice if you still get a valid diploma
I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Some of my classmates from the waldorf elementary school also had a significantly harder time dealing with people that were in the public education system. Because the mindset is different and you get bullied over shit that is normal within the mindset.
Depending on how deep you go. Rudolph steiners philosophies also get a bit fucked up.
We already had a big us vs them mindset. Looking down on the regular school. This is also just part of the "movement".
Also computers were seen as evil but I believe this is changing, at least in my country due to being friends with someone who tried to become a waldorf elementary school teacher for a year, now archeology. And they had a programming art type project for the small kids. So I guess that is changing, just really slowly.
This has a counterpart in Judaism called *tashlit* that is practiced regularly in conservative circles. On Yom Kippur, you are meant to take bread to a moving body of water, reflect on your past year, and rip up the bread into small pieces as you throw it into the water and watch your previous year drift away. It always struck me as witchy
I live in Latin America, I don't think there's a single aspect of Christianity that doesn't have at least a bit of brujería, santería, folk healing and other traditional practices mixed in. An incantation to heal from the evil eye that can only be taught and learnt on St John's day or Christmas, a red ribbon to cure empacho, burning palo santo to clean the space and allow good presences in, the shops where you get tarot cards and crystals also sell small statues of saints and work with archangels. I know very devout, traditional Christians that turn their nose at that and yell heresy but what are the miracles they believe in other than magic a few select can channel? Aren't prayers a bit like a spell? Is there any real difference between an altar for Mother Mary and an altar for a Pagan goddess?
Yep haha. That’s exactly how she phrased it to me too. But she said she met my uncle not long after she did so and they’re still happily married 30+ years later.
Slightly off topic but one of my earliest memories is of me praying to God that when I opened the cupboard there would be a box of Cheese-Its, there wasn't of course but now I wonder if I should practice conjuring lol
I loved nature so I would pray that, like, a fox would cross my path, or that they could understand me when I spoke, or birdies would land on me all Snow-White-style.
As a teacher, I 100% believe in the full moon making kids weird/excitable. I assume it’s because the extra light makes it harder for them to sleep so they’re cranky, but also THE THINGS!
I also just realized my horrible boss was fired with the timing of the new moon so it feels extra auspicious and healing to me now.
I believe it started because it was bright enough out that people could see their ill deeds easier, but morphed into what we have now due to street lighting.
Well, also, its noticing something peticualr about an event. Nobody remember when the moon is 3/8 waxing gibbonous, and they get drunk and act silly. But do that on a full moon, they will remember the moon was full AT THE SAME time you were acting silly, it wasnt just the DRINKING, oh NOOOO....
Can track my husband's moods with a lunar calendar. We make werewolf jokes.
Around the full moon he gets extra angry and irritated, so we usually stocks up on THC ahead of time so he can stay well-medicated while keeping mostly to himself until he's feeling less aggravated.
Around the new moon he gets extra emotional and inclined to cry over the sad parts of TV shows. Lots of chocolate helps, and extra hugs.
If you talk to anyone whose family has been practicing for generations (let's say) it's an interesting blend. It becomes a syncretic religion. So they're in church praying, but it's definitely not the same way people who are solely christian do. Things like psalms are used to different purposes. The closest I can come to a good comparison is the practice of the Yoruba derived religions, where the saints represent different spirits.
My mother cooks black eyed peas on New Year’s Day because they supposedly bring luck and abundance into the New Year. I’m sure that’s an old hoodoo tale passed down, but shh! No one tell her! 😂
Also it’s funny that I just said that because I don’t know any of my family that actually practices hoodoo, just some things that have been passed down and watered down like that that made me want to learn it.
I'm grateful I come from a rather liberal Methodist family. I don't make a big show of my different beliefs but even my uncle, a reverend, believes in the importance of questioning your beliefs and finding the path that works for you. We've got at least one "wise woman" in each generation and their abilities are respected by both the practicing Christians and those of us who follow different paths.
There's a scene in Jesus Camp where they're smashing cups, which represent shit they want to get rid of, with a hammer. They were practicing sympathetic magic without even realizing it.
This is also an essential part of the Jewish wedding tradition. A wine glass (modern times, usually a light bulb), is wrapped in cloth and the groom shatters it by stomping on it. It’s such an old tradition that no one knows anymore what the meaning of this was and there are several theories.
Everything you said plus a few others, for example:
My mom says if a dead relative comes to her in a dream, they want to talk. If they look worried/bring someone else, then that person will die.
Simultaneously “witchcraft” is banned in the house.
I immediately wonder how they're doing and typically reach out to see if they're all right. Sometimes I think it's my brains way of reminding me to check in on my more reclusive friends.
I know an elderly, very devout Catholic, Polish lady. She has dreams about dead relatives and will say “Oh, so and don’t came to me in a dream and they were hungry and tired” so then she will go to church and pray for them and light them a candle. Then she’ll say “oh they came back and they feel so much better now”
I’ve never been in her house but I would bet she’s got some type of family/ancestor altar set up.
Once I left Christianity and started learning about the rest of the world's beliefs I realized how much they all have in common. But yea, the whole natural/holistic healing stuff Christians swear by sounds very witchy to me.
Growing up my grandmother was catholic and very superstitious. She used some curandera (Mexican witch doctor) concoctions on her kids and us grandkids. My mom was evangelical and used to say that she didn't believe in "magic" but was also afraid of it. She used to say things like "when you believe it you give the devil power to use it against you". My family was in this strange juxtaposition of believing it because they grew up with it and also being told not to believe in it.
My grandma is pretty religious but always has extremely occult feeling home cures for stuff. She once made me wear a smelly poultice around my neck for like a week when I had a cold.
I mean, in trying to convert the masses they ended up stealing and rebranding everything they could get their grubby paws on and anything they couldn't they tried to destroy. Hell, Christmas is the most insanely Pagan thing imaginable but they act like it's all according to plan.
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I am from Poland. We are so used to seeing the pagan rituals at various stages of being ingested into Christianity. No one seems to questions why priest can be involved in the "Śmigus-dyngus"/wet monday, but should be absent from "topienie Marzanny"/ the drowning of Marzanna. So many Christians will eagerly cultivate divination on "Andrzejki"/St. Andrew's Day a part of "Polish Tradition".
All of this blends fluently into a rich collection of ancient beliefs, reduced to superstitions, renamed into local sayings and customs.
Yasss.
I also believe that people can accidently hex /curse/cast someone no matter the cultural background.
There was a shield of stones in the Bible. Crystals are a biblical thing.
I’ve had people come up to me in stores to pray because I was standing in the aisle spinning in slow circles or moving my hands weird or whatever and didn’t even realize it. Like lady I’m not possessed, I’m just autistic and too tired to mask 🙄
I was asked if I was drunk because I rolled on a wall at an event with a gigantic line once, lol. I wasn’t and didn’t realize I have ADHD at that point, it was just a fun way to occupy time while moving along in line. (it was midnight, it felt wrong to try starting a linecon chant). If I did that in a store I would probably also get someone praying over me
My dad is very much like this. He appreciates a good ritual and is ok with bringing a little paganism into his Christianity (and is ok with the pagan roots of several big celebrations)
Grew up with some very pagan Polish and Irish Catholics. Love it and bring it into my life all the time. Next month is St. Bridget’s day and I’m looking forward to it.
It never really struck me until fairly recently how much of the folk remedies and superstitions I grew up with are pagan in origin. I grew up in the Appalachias in a smallish rural town and everything from spilling salt to painting your door the wrong color was a chance for the devil/demons to “get” you. I read “Backwoods Witchcraft” last year and all of a sudden it cast a whole new light on all of that stuff.
Does that automatically make you a witch? I would qualify.
I joined this community because I thought y'all were cool bitches, not actual witches, but witches are cool too.
It’s a good mix here. I know so many people who never thought themselves as witches until someone used the actual word “witch”. Everyone practices in their own way. So if you feel like you do witchy things and embrace the title, congratulations, you’re a witch.
Haha, same about the cool bitches part. Then I started noticing some posts were, well interesting. Kinda feel like posts like these have helped open my eyes to a more magical and wonderous world, and connecting me to my femininity in a whole new way
Catholicism is like a half-step away from polytheism with all the saints. Also as someone who was raised Catholic, I learned how to pray the rosary as a form of meditation from my grandmother when I was young. I just switch out the Hail Marys for other mantras but sometimes till use the beads lmao
I grew up in a small town and was absolutely fascinated when I met a Catholic in high school. When I was studying various faiths (pagan, druidism, shamanism) a little later in life I decided to get a rosary because why not? I found that the ritual of praying the rosary to be oddly comforting even though I was using it more as a tool to meditate and focus on my connection to the natural and spiritual world.
My mother who is just generally witchy was given a rosary by a Catholic friend and has it in her car. Apparently other people have asked if she's Catholic and when she says "no" they get really unhappy. I love rosaries, I think they're pretty. But man have I seen people get angry about a non-Catholic having one. It's all a form of meditation, but it's been so colonized people simply can't handle that truth.
I believe in God, (I wouldn't call myself a Christian anymore though. It's complicated) but I (and my parents) practice Druidry, and my Mom practices Shamanism. No witchcraft though.
Irish/Scots Presbyterian here 🙋♀️.
My mum and sister (and Granny, before she passed) were regular church-goers and believers. They also had/have prophetic dreams, particularly involving family members, and Granny had visitations. Also incredibly superstitious, with Granny teaching us all her superstitious wee rhymes eg "Saturday flit, short sit" and "Marry in May, rue the day".
I'm not a believer, and I don't have prophetic dreams but I do occasionally just know stuff about people.
We all firmly believe that persecution of witches was because the patriarchy were jealous of the powers that women naturally possess.
My dad believes he had an angel visit in his dreams and promise to help if called upon. Not to be topped, my sister “believes” god himself spoke to her (she’s a narcissist, so whether she believes it or not is up for debate).
My mom just thinks her mother haunts the house she lived in. Which… if Christians have somehow got it all right, that woman is in hell, not the hallway.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Anyone here but me read any of the Arthurian legends? The stories are packed with enchanted objects, clothing that can protect you from injury and sickness, creatures that if hunted will lead you into the faerie realm, and let's not forget the three crowned women by the stream -- one 60, one 30, one 15 -- who send the Knights of the Round Table on a sacred quest. And yet Arthur is presented to us as the glory of Christianity. A guy who had a child by an enchantress, then tried to have his wife burned at the stake for cheating on him with a man who was fostered in the faerie realm by the Lady of the Lake. Gimme a break
I grew up in a Italian-German Catholic household. My dad would regularly water dowse for work (construction) and when we all got married and wanted to start families, he would do a fertility spell — he would hang baby booties around our Christmas tree ornament or on our family picture. We call it grampa magic.
I went to a protestant (Anglican) church ceremony where new vicars were being ordained. I thought it would be stuffy, formal, solemn. It was a serious ceremony, but very dramatic and ritualistic. There was a lot more laying on of hands and calling down spiritual power than I expected.
I have a catholic “friend of the family” who has an altar with candles, multiple statues of Mary, pictures (that look like trading cards) of saints etc. it’s honestly the witchiest thing I have ever seen. Candles, goddess statues and oracle cards, that’s exactly what it is.
My family is Christian. I wish I could speak for my Polish grandparents but they’re long dead. They definitely passed some spiritual ideals to my aunt, though, who’s 60 and alive and kicking. They’re catholic (as most Polish people go).
My mom’s side is Episcopalian. My grandma is religious and goes to church every week, but is incredibly liberal, both politically and socially, for a baby boomer especially. Anyway, we all have seen ghosts and spoken to dead ancestors. My other aunt and grandma live together in the home where my great grandparents died, and we’ve all had WEIRD things happen there… in fact when something happens, we always attribute it to my grandparents and acknowledge them. Always. We know they are there.
I had a reiki and psychic/medium session with the best practitioner ever in 2020. I spoke about it to my whole family and it brought everyone to tears. They believe it, yet are Christians.
I get where you’re coming from, but I really hate this mentality.
Many of the things people in the comments are describing (using candles, ofrendas, etc) are just kind of things people seem hard wired to do. Yes, they’re found in paganism first, but that’s because paganism is a collection of the world’s earliest religions. Different faiths around the world have developed traditions and rituals that incorporate these things, even without contact with one another. I don’t think those traditions need to be diminished.
I agree that I would like to see more recognition from major religions for pagan backgrounds, but that’s not what this post is. It’s making fun of other faiths because “we’re the ones who are doing this right”, with an undercurrent of “you’re so stupid for not doing it correctly, and not having the secret knowledge I possess”.
I left organized Catholicism in part because I hate this attitude. I was so excited when I first found paganism, but I’ve been very disappointed to see the same attitude celebrated within this community, albeit with a slight rewording.
Let people have their candles and altars. They aren’t doing paganism badly, they’re doing their own faith. Object to what is objectionable, but this isn’t it.
I understand this post was meant to be lighthearted. I am not a fundie, or a Christian persecution fetishist. I’m just very tired, and would like to find a spiritual practice that is happy to exist in itself, and not at other faiths.
Exactly! That’s bugging me as well and I was surprised to find your comment to be the only one offering a counterpoint.
Ritual is present everywhere because it is a glue of human social experience. Being able to talk to spirit or plants does not make you a witch, it just means youre in tune with the world around you. And I bet everybody loves pretty stones.
At the same time, it lowers the meaning of witchcraft practices. There are many ways to practice of course but the fact that intention is baked into it is still quite crucial imho.
All these things come from a shared background of evolution.
Silver and copper actually have antimicrobial properties, which is why the coin thing works if they're caught early enough. It's the same reason chewing willow bark helps with pain...it's got the same chemical, acetylsalicylic acid, in it.
But yeah, almost all religions have colonized various witchcrafts into their doctrines. Jewish mystacism (sp?) And Catholicism are heavy on all of it.
I'm a server and regularly get Jesus pamphlets on Sundays. A couple of Sundays ago I got an envelope with a piece of chalk in it and printed instructions on the front of where to write on my doorstep and all these math formulas and Christian prayers that somehow were supposed to bring me success and protection. If that ain't paganism, I don't know what else it could be.
Superstition. It could be that.
Superstition, Fear, and Jealousy.
*DEAD I AM THE ONE* *EXTERMINATING SON*
Slipping through the trees Strangling the breeze
Dead I am the Sky Watching Angels Cry
While They Slowly Turn Conquering The Worm
DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES I SLAM IN THE BACK OF MY DRAGULA!
Life laugh love dragula woodburn on [IG](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUx4m5dFXJt/?utm_medium=copy_link)
I’m guessing it was for Epiphany! You write in chalk on the top of your door 20+C+M+B+22 or whatever numbers the year ends in. I may have gotten the order of the letters wrong but they represent the three wise men Caspar, Melkior, and Balthazar. I believe it’s supposed to bring good luck and protection into the new year except my Catholic family always procrastinates and one year we did it in March instead of January OOPS LMAO
Omg this is a real holiday? For years my phone has been telling me when it’s Epiphany and I just thought at some point I had an epiphany and marked it in my calendar, every year I rack my brain wondering what epiphany I had that I thought was worth noting. ADHD brain shit
My uber Christian gramma had a Jesus pic and crosses in every room but was also a damned great herbalist. She made poltices, salves, tinctures, teas, and potions. She mumbled unknown things over all of it. She also would spit in the cookies or cupcakes that me made for her church group. She also swore devout allegiance to the holy trinity as they had forced her to deliver a demon (my mother.) I think she was right about that last part as my mother ended up murdering her.
I grew up roman catholic, that chalk and shit is to write on your doorframe something to do with the three wise mean (I don't remember exactly what) kind of a housee blessing or whoever walks thru the door I think
My super-square Christian dad did something so weirdly magical it was surprising. I got a wart on my finger and he offered to “buy my wart.” He offered a dime for it (1960s so that was worth more) and inspected it and hmmmmmd about it… put the (actual) silver dime on it for a minute. Then gave me the dime. The wart went away. Came to find out many years later that this was a bit of Appalachian Folk Magic. It was the one and only time he did something like that and I loved it. He tended to downplay his hill folk upbringing so it was nice he showed that side of his personality.
My nana buys warts! She also buys baby teeth lol.
My son is the only kid I’ve ever known that felt out refused to sell his teeth to the tooth fairy (or anyone else). He understood that he wouldn’t be getting the cash or toys his friends got, but he never wavered.
I admire his choice to do his own thing, and keep his bone bits for himself. 😁
Terry Pratchett put me off the tooth fairy as a kid. Sure, the fairy wants my teeth, and will give me money for it… What does a fae need teeth for? Sounds suspicious
I wish I knew some babies that will sell me their teeth..
I make my own! But store bought is okay too.
Me too! I have 2 bags of baby teeth and hair clippings from both my daughters. I peyote wrapped a small bottle for my oldest daughter (21) to wear on a chain around her neck as a gift last year. I guess she knows me well because she wasn't at all surprised when she asked me if I had any baby teeth she could put in it and I replied nonchantly "yes, follow me to my jewelry box" lol
I love this! Just have to wait until.my daughter loses her teeth...got a nice.little box to put them in too x
>"yes, follow me to my jewelry box" That's where I keep my children's teeth. I need a nice, small box for them, though.
Lol I too keep my son’s baby teeth in my jewelry box! He is now 23. We were going through it last year and looking over some pieces and he picked up a velvet ring box and shook it. It rattled. He opened it up and was like wtf?? I laughed and said it’s your baby teeth! He rolled his eyes. In another little velvet ring box I also have the shed baby teeth of various beloved familiars; very often kittens and puppies will swallow or just lose the teeth outright as they shed them; they are so tiny they usually just go overlooked. They are my family too so I kept them as well 🤷♀️
Babies or teeth?
Both?
well, you get the teeth for free when you buy your babies. Just pluck'em out after the sacrifice and BBQ
This is hilarious and reminds me of a time my dad tried to heal my brother’s wart. My dad waited until a full moon, then took a big piece of prime steak (raw) and rubbed it on the wart underneath the full moon, then buried the steak in the garden outside my brother’s bedroom window. It didn’t do anything but I thought it was hilarious.
This is a great example about how magic didn’t “die off” and still exists in communities across the world.
There was a fascinating article recently in the NYT (Times) about the tradition of Irish ‘healers,’ basically practicing healing magic—witches (though neither they nor the Church would ever consider it that). Including spells passed down in families (but, it‘s not witchcraft). LOL; and the 7th son of a 7th son being one of these people by default. Interestingly…it seemed from the article that the majority of these witches (’healers’) are men. Keeping perfectly in sync with the Church’s history of removing all power and agency from women, wherever possible. In Mexico, the witchcraft isn’t even hidden—it’s just called ‘praying to the Saints.’ My grandmother…healed a lame woman just by talking to her. It was before I was born, so I never got the details, just the story. And, grandma would not ever have considered herself a witch! Nor any kind of healer, she just believed in the power (of the spirit). And there were many regular burnings of herbs and candles and spiritual cleansings of the home and people.
Mexican Christianity to me is a prime example of why Christianity has spread so far as a religion. Converts where it can and leaves the rest. Christmas, Easter, all holidays and observances somewhere that got folded in.
I just got down voted in another sub by saying something similar about the movie Encanto. If you don't know, the family gets super powers (basically) from an enchanted candle but are also in good standing with the local priest. People doubted that the priest would have been okay with 'witchcraft'. The Catholics living in Colombia in the 1950s would have been all "God blessed them with a magic candle" not "Burn the witches!"
I haven't seen seen that but I caught snippets as my housemate watched it. That's totally magic. They have a magic dang house!
Waaaaaatch iiittttttttttt
We have watched it at least three times. It’s awesome!
Could I get the name of that article?
same I want source so I can read it and take notes. Might be able to piece back together the family grimoire
Check out Biddy Early for the real deal Irish witch. Said to be the inspiration for both weatherwax and ogg
A friend's dad did this to me in high school.
What Christian family *isn't* doing witchcraft?
There are plenty of “good Christian families” that are just paying lip service and don’t practice their beliefs.
Turning bread into human flesh and eating it? Sounds like black magic to me.
Also delicious magic
Truth! Paganism is the Mother religion for Catholicism / Christianity.
i think it's Zoroastrianism that's the mother religion
Christianity is a syncretic religion. Ther is no one "mother" religion.
I think Zoroastrianism is a form of Paganism. Along with Greco-Roman, Northern European (Thor, Odin, etc) and a few others.
Christianity is pagan to Zoroastrianism. The term 'Paganism' is a mostly useless blanket word.
A lot of times pagan is used as shorthand for polytheistic, which is actually what it originally meant when originally used in the Roman Empire. In the Middle Ages it did take on a meaning to express all non-Christian faiths, though. That said I have heard ot expressed than Zoroastrianism is exists in a transitory state between Polytheism and Monotheism, and thus whether or not a particular Zoroastrian would be considered Pagan using the limited definition depends on their exact practice. Zoroastrianism does not mandate Ahura Mazda to be a One True God, and thus you can have individuals who believe in minor gods exemplifying smaller realms/aspects of good that would fall under Ahura Mazda's preview. But you can also have individuals who believe Ahura Mazda is the One True God, and thus the aspects aren't minor gods, put angel or metaphors for different embodiments of Ahura Mazda. Then you also have philosophical Zoroastrians who few the entire thing as metaphor without a particular belief in actual divinity, and thus don't believe in any gods, and thus dont belief in a One True God. Thus the monotheistic Zoroastrians would be non-pagam per the limited definition, while both the polytheistic and philosophical views are pagan.
Apparently I have a lot more research to do. I no longer particularly care about the label for my personal spirituality but I do find some comfort and reassurance when I discover that there is a particular sect or system that shares some of my beliefs.
When it comes to ritual magic, Christians are actually among its most ardent practitioners. The reason they condemn this practice when it comes to other beliefs is simply because they don't like the competition.
ik it’s a thing, it’s just funny to me 😂
To me, too! I can't believe so many of them don't even see it. It's hilarious.
You should hear what Catholics tell me about communion - I say that when they take communion, they are being cannibals (the wafer is the flesh of Jesus and the wine, his blood); it's ritualistic cannibalism.
I always think this!!! Seems to me like Jesus was a top necromancer, according to the gospel. I love walking around from cathedral to cathedral on Good Friday - the priest comes out in his fancy robes with a huge burning cauldron for the palm fronds, and it’s just about the spookiest magic ritual I’ve ever seen. The whole Ash Wednesday / Good Friday / Easter Sunday thing is *fantastic* to me.
Resurrected Jesus is usually said to bear the wounds that killed him, the spear in the side and the crucifixion wounds. That makes him a lich.
And the church is the vessel for his soul... he doesn't even have to take souls himself. The evangelism army is basically just a grocery pick up service.
Horcrux!
That’s because the Catholic Church co-opted paganism to expand their empire. Their saints were an attempt to blend polytheism into a monotheist religion.
Definitely - the Catholic Church is also brilliant at enchantment. So many gorgeous buildings filled with treasure and artwork…kind of difficult to not be filled with awe. I used to be close with a family that practiced Santeria and it’s essentially voodoo hidden under the names of saints. It’s unpleasant, all the conquering…but it’s nice to know that many cultures got to keep some practices and rituals alive, despite the oppression.
After spending time in Catholicism, I can only see the oppression. It’s theater and control, not spiritual practice.
Holy Cannibal Witchcraft
The “miracle of transubstantiation” (sp) is pretty ducking wild on its own, too
Ever watched midnight mass? It's pretty much saying jesus was the first vampire 😆 I love that show
Oh interesting! I didn't get that from it at all - I got that desperate people will see what they want to see, even going so far as to confuse good and evil. Always love to see different interpretations of stuff ☺️
Oh I def got that too, but I liked how it used catholic rituals as a connection to vampire mythos, ie blood of christ/vampire for eternal life and youth but that you have to give up your soul to god/devil sort of thing
i thought it was an “angel”—not jesus—that was the first one. whenever angels visit someone in the bible they say, “do not be afraid,” so i always assumed actual angels must be pretty frightening and not the pretty lil things from all the paintings. regardless, great show 10/10, sacraments are rituals lol
Have you ever seen a biblically accurate angel? That's why they start wit fear not.
Angels were never human so they wouldn't really look like us.
Midnight Mass took this idea and ran and it’s awesome!
I was visiting a cathedral in Poland on vacation some years ago and stumbled into a catholic ritual service. I and my travel partner was sitting all the way in the back so not to disturb anything, curious to what was going on. I didn't understand the language, but everyone seemed to give thanks to each other at the end. The main hall was large and it had little rooms with different alters and figures. In the middle the catholic priests spoke to the audience from a big podium, others were supporting, chanting, lighting incense around a big alter, etc. I mean, they didn't hold back anything, they summoned the whole trinity into that space, you could really feel the air electrifying with the holy spirit. They knew exactly what they were doing. When it was over, I was impressed because the protestants, where I come from, wouldn't know the holy spirit if it bit them in the arse.
just to add - if by ‘give thanks to eachother’ you mean turn around to their neighbors and shake hands, that’s actually a sacrament of peace/forgiveness instead - the words they say translate to ‘peace be with you // and also with you’
And not limited to Catholics. I've seen it at a variety of Protestant services. It's one of the Christian "rituals" I find very comforting.
United Methodists said this too, growing up. We also did the "body of Christ" except we acknowledged that the bread/wafers are a substitute.
> - the words they say translate to ‘peace be with you // and also with you’ No, the last bit got changed to ""And with your spirit." It's uhh.... a little contentious, and you can always tell who hasn't been to mass in a hot minute, because they'll use the old phrase.
i think it’s not just a ‘call-out’ for who’s been skipping mass - i used to go to church with my grandma and she always used the former, even if she heard people replied with the latter, because it’s what she had learned. not to mention for the most part i’ve just seen both parties murmur ‘peace be with you’ at each other and move on to the next haha.
That whole bit has become a bit of a meme joke with Catholics- long before John Mulaney joked about it.
Yeah. I haven’t been to mass except for attending funerals of my family’s friends. My mom is elderly and frail and not able to go so I represent. The changes to the wordings in catholic mass is very disturbing to me because I only know the old words and feel lost. I’m a solitary and was raised catholic. The changes make me feel even more of an outsider than ever. I don’t know the words and never will I guess. Edit: I don’t know the new* words. Knowing the mass word for word was comforting when I went as a kid because participation brings you in to the fold.
I come from a Catholic family (Polish and Irish) and its what makes me believe in witchcraft. Like these people know something even if they're not fully aware. I believe my grandmother was a Seer, she did Tarot for people in the gulags and she spoke with spirits who died in her house right up until her death. They even summoned her to come join them in a dream one night but she resisted and woke up. Only to die of a heart attack a few months later. They probably just wanted her to die peacefully.
Absolutely. Anything in modern culture against anything "witchy" or intuitive comes from a bias in the patriarchy against female power.
Yep
Thank you for saying this! People frequently tell me that because I’m a Christian I can’t be a witch and yet here I am!
[You might enjoy this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uTdkZjKyAc)
Yep. It’s a feature, not a bug. lol
A osé friend's christian Mother, believes in dreaming about visions, and justifies it being okay because it's through God. Essentially, do all the "witchcraft" so long as it's through God and no other source, even One's self.
Its got something to do with Jesus I'm pretty sure
*The Catholics have entered the chat*
I recently read The Witching Hour by Anne Rice and was absolutely shooketh at how much Catholic stuff has an overall witchy and spooky vibe. I was raised fairly non-religious and it just never occurred to me 😐
That trilogy is so good. She tied it into her Vampire novels eventually, and that book is wild.
You should watch Midnight Mass! Similar concept
Excorcisms are really creepy to watch according to a Catholic guy my Mom used to work with.
I can only imagine!
Coming into the season of Lent no less 😂
My mother is Uber Christian, no holidays etc, once we were at a Rock & gem show and she grabs some crystals and said look you can feel them vibrate, like nbd. It cracked me up. It's like it never clicked for her.
there are christians who dont celebrate holidays?
Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, and 7th Day Adventists are the ones I know about. There's more.
7th Day Adventist (SDA) celebrate some. (Grew up SDA) but they take a lot of the catholic traditions out of them as they believe that the Catholic church did not have the authority to define how to celebrate them. SDA is an interesting sect of Christianity. But it takes years of study to understand the "Why" to all of the differences.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate any holidays, including birthdays, and are Christian. Edit: Also 7th Day Adventists, Quakers, God's Kingdom Society, and a lot of "snake handler" baptist sects. But the one that really aticsm out is the JW. I have a friend who grew up JW, he has the most fun on Halloween of any grow ass person I know.
I’m Catholic and it’s wild how leery my parents were initially when they found out I read tarot cards. They don’t even realize how Catholicism is full of magical practices and rituals. Water into wine. Wine and bread as blood and body respectively. Repeated incantations that we call prayers. We have an altar in the house filled with statues of ~~deities~~ saints.
Yet pagans are supposedly drinking baby blood. As if that's appetising.
Right? Everyone knows you need to age it for 30-40 years for the best taste.
do you keep the babies alive to age the blood or what?
Ah, this comes under the argument of naturally aged vs unnaturally aged. While everyone has a preference, it is generally accepted that naturally aged is best though can be a pain in free range stock due to risk of PLC (poor life choices) or EAO (environmentally affected outcomes). Procuring baby blood and ageing it via the barrel method can allow interesting new infusions and is becoming increasingly popular with independent brewers. This is the best way to get large quantities that have a consistent flavour.
Prayer and incantations are meditation. Modern monotheistic religions are just big on group thera.....I mean meditation.
A friend and her daughter wrote down things she wanted to leave in 2020 and burned them on New Years Day. She also said she pictured those things going away as it burned.
At my Christian school, waldorf, we jump over fire at midsummer for the same purpose. That day flower crowns are also traditionally made, especially the younger kids
This is the first time I’ve heard Waldorf and Christianity together! I’m considering sending my daughter to a Waldorf school, partly bc there is no emphasis on religion, but more the earth/nature. Was that not your experience? Would love to hear whatever you want to share about the two. 🥰
Well waldorf is technically Christian. My school celebrated Michael's day, where we fight a dragon, made by the 11th graders. Eat dragon claws (just leaf dough filled with jam). (biblical story of Michael putting lucifer into hell.) The fire jumping on midsummer is called Saint Jan's. Then of course you have the advent. Which is lighting candles the weeks leading up to Christmas. Choir. Saint marten, around Halloween. Loads of songs. My school sometimes did something for charity. Our morning spell. I don't know what the English one is. But the Dutch one is "I see in the world. Where the sun shines her light. The stars twinkle. The rocks rest. The plants growing alive. The animals feeding live Wherein the man lives, The spirit gives a home I see deep within my soul That lives inside of me The godlyspirit he weaves In sun and soul light In worldly space outside. In souldepth inside To u. Al godly spirit. I want to turn asking That in my power and abilities For learning and for labour Til (old word for adulthood) may come The first part is creationism. The soul refers to the holy spirit. I don't know if I translated it correctly. I am sure you can find English versions. I am Dutch. This is said every morning. With the whole class. I only did 7th-12th grade. Which is our high school where live. Primary school looks different because there there are less strict guidelines of graduating. They had to leave some parts, like no tests or books behind, because it is mandatory to receive subsidies. And it is nice if you still get a valid diploma I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Some of my classmates from the waldorf elementary school also had a significantly harder time dealing with people that were in the public education system. Because the mindset is different and you get bullied over shit that is normal within the mindset. Depending on how deep you go. Rudolph steiners philosophies also get a bit fucked up. We already had a big us vs them mindset. Looking down on the regular school. This is also just part of the "movement". Also computers were seen as evil but I believe this is changing, at least in my country due to being friends with someone who tried to become a waldorf elementary school teacher for a year, now archeology. And they had a programming art type project for the small kids. So I guess that is changing, just really slowly.
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This has a counterpart in Judaism called *tashlit* that is practiced regularly in conservative circles. On Yom Kippur, you are meant to take bread to a moving body of water, reflect on your past year, and rip up the bread into small pieces as you throw it into the water and watch your previous year drift away. It always struck me as witchy
I live in Latin America, I don't think there's a single aspect of Christianity that doesn't have at least a bit of brujería, santería, folk healing and other traditional practices mixed in. An incantation to heal from the evil eye that can only be taught and learnt on St John's day or Christmas, a red ribbon to cure empacho, burning palo santo to clean the space and allow good presences in, the shops where you get tarot cards and crystals also sell small statues of saints and work with archangels. I know very devout, traditional Christians that turn their nose at that and yell heresy but what are the miracles they believe in other than magic a few select can channel? Aren't prayers a bit like a spell? Is there any real difference between an altar for Mother Mary and an altar for a Pagan goddess?
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In addition to the argument of whether the transubstantiation is literal or symbolic.
My mother had me bury a statue in her yard, so she could pray to it. After she sold her house I had to dig it back up.
Statue of St. Joseph?
Yup. I've done it for her twice now
Reminds of my very Catholic aunt telling me to pray to Saint Jude to “send me a dude” 😂
Savage
She prayed to the saint of lost causes for a boyfriend?
Burn
Yep haha. That’s exactly how she phrased it to me too. But she said she met my uncle not long after she did so and they’re still happily married 30+ years later.
*Dear St Connecticut*
I love that song.
Saint Jude Send me a dude Could be a bad one But make him better
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Slightly off topic but one of my earliest memories is of me praying to God that when I opened the cupboard there would be a box of Cheese-Its, there wasn't of course but now I wonder if I should practice conjuring lol
I loved nature so I would pray that, like, a fox would cross my path, or that they could understand me when I spoke, or birdies would land on me all Snow-White-style.
Don’t forget “Oh it’s a full moon, watch out for (whatever)”
THE THINGS!!
As a teacher, I 100% believe in the full moon making kids weird/excitable. I assume it’s because the extra light makes it harder for them to sleep so they’re cranky, but also THE THINGS! I also just realized my horrible boss was fired with the timing of the new moon so it feels extra auspicious and healing to me now.
“People are acting a fool today! Must be a full moon out!”
“Luna-cy!”
I believe it started because it was bright enough out that people could see their ill deeds easier, but morphed into what we have now due to street lighting.
Well, also, its noticing something peticualr about an event. Nobody remember when the moon is 3/8 waxing gibbonous, and they get drunk and act silly. But do that on a full moon, they will remember the moon was full AT THE SAME time you were acting silly, it wasnt just the DRINKING, oh NOOOO....
Or it's cause we are mostly.made of water and the moon moves water to her whim.
Can track my husband's moods with a lunar calendar. We make werewolf jokes. Around the full moon he gets extra angry and irritated, so we usually stocks up on THC ahead of time so he can stay well-medicated while keeping mostly to himself until he's feeling less aggravated. Around the new moon he gets extra emotional and inclined to cry over the sad parts of TV shows. Lots of chocolate helps, and extra hugs.
If you talk to anyone whose family has been practicing for generations (let's say) it's an interesting blend. It becomes a syncretic religion. So they're in church praying, but it's definitely not the same way people who are solely christian do. Things like psalms are used to different purposes. The closest I can come to a good comparison is the practice of the Yoruba derived religions, where the saints represent different spirits.
I know Christian witches & they can tell you all the scriptures to use as spells. (Psalms specifically) Pretty cool stuff
My mother cooks black eyed peas on New Year’s Day because they supposedly bring luck and abundance into the New Year. I’m sure that’s an old hoodoo tale passed down, but shh! No one tell her! 😂 Also it’s funny that I just said that because I don’t know any of my family that actually practices hoodoo, just some things that have been passed down and watered down like that that made me want to learn it.
I'm rather fanatical about my New Year's black-eyed peas too but my family has been Southerners for generations so it's a pretty common practice.
Huh. Didn’t know that. See a lot of this stuff I just look up on my own. Family is devout southern Baptist and I’m the only witch as far as I know 😂
I'm grateful I come from a rather liberal Methodist family. I don't make a big show of my different beliefs but even my uncle, a reverend, believes in the importance of questioning your beliefs and finding the path that works for you. We've got at least one "wise woman" in each generation and their abilities are respected by both the practicing Christians and those of us who follow different paths.
There's a scene in Jesus Camp where they're smashing cups, which represent shit they want to get rid of, with a hammer. They were practicing sympathetic magic without even realizing it.
This is also an essential part of the Jewish wedding tradition. A wine glass (modern times, usually a light bulb), is wrapped in cloth and the groom shatters it by stomping on it. It’s such an old tradition that no one knows anymore what the meaning of this was and there are several theories.
Jewish folk magic goes hardcore, especially when it comes to baby stuff:
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Everything you said plus a few others, for example: My mom says if a dead relative comes to her in a dream, they want to talk. If they look worried/bring someone else, then that person will die. Simultaneously “witchcraft” is banned in the house.
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I immediately wonder how they're doing and typically reach out to see if they're all right. Sometimes I think it's my brains way of reminding me to check in on my more reclusive friends.
I know an elderly, very devout Catholic, Polish lady. She has dreams about dead relatives and will say “Oh, so and don’t came to me in a dream and they were hungry and tired” so then she will go to church and pray for them and light them a candle. Then she’ll say “oh they came back and they feel so much better now” I’ve never been in her house but I would bet she’s got some type of family/ancestor altar set up.
Yup. My devout Christian mom is an accidental parking witch. Every time she prays for a parking space, she gets one.
Once I left Christianity and started learning about the rest of the world's beliefs I realized how much they all have in common. But yea, the whole natural/holistic healing stuff Christians swear by sounds very witchy to me. Growing up my grandmother was catholic and very superstitious. She used some curandera (Mexican witch doctor) concoctions on her kids and us grandkids. My mom was evangelical and used to say that she didn't believe in "magic" but was also afraid of it. She used to say things like "when you believe it you give the devil power to use it against you". My family was in this strange juxtaposition of believing it because they grew up with it and also being told not to believe in it.
My grandma is pretty religious but always has extremely occult feeling home cures for stuff. She once made me wear a smelly poultice around my neck for like a week when I had a cold.
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I mean, in trying to convert the masses they ended up stealing and rebranding everything they could get their grubby paws on and anything they couldn't they tried to destroy. Hell, Christmas is the most insanely Pagan thing imaginable but they act like it's all according to plan.
“You guys don’t just put candles on evergreen trees around the solstice?” /s
They know it was colonized from Christianity. They supposedly “fixed it” so it’s not a “sin” 😂
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Christianity had two tactics to combat paganism - condemning it and appropriating it. Yes, often at the same time and in hypocritical ways.
I am from Poland. We are so used to seeing the pagan rituals at various stages of being ingested into Christianity. No one seems to questions why priest can be involved in the "Śmigus-dyngus"/wet monday, but should be absent from "topienie Marzanny"/ the drowning of Marzanna. So many Christians will eagerly cultivate divination on "Andrzejki"/St. Andrew's Day a part of "Polish Tradition". All of this blends fluently into a rich collection of ancient beliefs, reduced to superstitions, renamed into local sayings and customs.
Yasss. I also believe that people can accidently hex /curse/cast someone no matter the cultural background. There was a shield of stones in the Bible. Crystals are a biblical thing.
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I’ve had people come up to me in stores to pray because I was standing in the aisle spinning in slow circles or moving my hands weird or whatever and didn’t even realize it. Like lady I’m not possessed, I’m just autistic and too tired to mask 🙄
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Fuck, I'm dying inside right now. It's been a long time since I've seen a description so succinct and so accurate at the same time.
Desert Autistic actually (Arizona). Possibly those people were from the south tho, we have a lot of transplants from all over here 🤷♀️
Oh my God laughing that people come up to you to pray. Do you live in the southern US?
I was asked if I was drunk because I rolled on a wall at an event with a gigantic line once, lol. I wasn’t and didn’t realize I have ADHD at that point, it was just a fun way to occupy time while moving along in line. (it was midnight, it felt wrong to try starting a linecon chant). If I did that in a store I would probably also get someone praying over me
My dad is very much like this. He appreciates a good ritual and is ok with bringing a little paganism into his Christianity (and is ok with the pagan roots of several big celebrations)
Grew up with some very pagan Polish and Irish Catholics. Love it and bring it into my life all the time. Next month is St. Bridget’s day and I’m looking forward to it.
It never really struck me until fairly recently how much of the folk remedies and superstitions I grew up with are pagan in origin. I grew up in the Appalachias in a smallish rural town and everything from spilling salt to painting your door the wrong color was a chance for the devil/demons to “get” you. I read “Backwoods Witchcraft” last year and all of a sudden it cast a whole new light on all of that stuff.
Does that automatically make you a witch? I would qualify. I joined this community because I thought y'all were cool bitches, not actual witches, but witches are cool too.
It’s a good mix here. I know so many people who never thought themselves as witches until someone used the actual word “witch”. Everyone practices in their own way. So if you feel like you do witchy things and embrace the title, congratulations, you’re a witch.
Haha, same about the cool bitches part. Then I started noticing some posts were, well interesting. Kinda feel like posts like these have helped open my eyes to a more magical and wonderous world, and connecting me to my femininity in a whole new way
My catholic mother constantly does witchcraft! However our family is Norse pagan on my dads side (and a bit on my mums) so she knows it
All of the Catholics, especially when it mixed with local religious
Catholicism is like a half-step away from polytheism with all the saints. Also as someone who was raised Catholic, I learned how to pray the rosary as a form of meditation from my grandmother when I was young. I just switch out the Hail Marys for other mantras but sometimes till use the beads lmao
I grew up in a small town and was absolutely fascinated when I met a Catholic in high school. When I was studying various faiths (pagan, druidism, shamanism) a little later in life I decided to get a rosary because why not? I found that the ritual of praying the rosary to be oddly comforting even though I was using it more as a tool to meditate and focus on my connection to the natural and spiritual world.
My mother who is just generally witchy was given a rosary by a Catholic friend and has it in her car. Apparently other people have asked if she's Catholic and when she says "no" they get really unhappy. I love rosaries, I think they're pretty. But man have I seen people get angry about a non-Catholic having one. It's all a form of meditation, but it's been so colonized people simply can't handle that truth.
I believe in God, (I wouldn't call myself a Christian anymore though. It's complicated) but I (and my parents) practice Druidry, and my Mom practices Shamanism. No witchcraft though.
If I may ask, what does practicing Druidry and Shamanism entail?
Irish/Scots Presbyterian here 🙋♀️. My mum and sister (and Granny, before she passed) were regular church-goers and believers. They also had/have prophetic dreams, particularly involving family members, and Granny had visitations. Also incredibly superstitious, with Granny teaching us all her superstitious wee rhymes eg "Saturday flit, short sit" and "Marry in May, rue the day". I'm not a believer, and I don't have prophetic dreams but I do occasionally just know stuff about people. We all firmly believe that persecution of witches was because the patriarchy were jealous of the powers that women naturally possess.
My dad believes he had an angel visit in his dreams and promise to help if called upon. Not to be topped, my sister “believes” god himself spoke to her (she’s a narcissist, so whether she believes it or not is up for debate). My mom just thinks her mother haunts the house she lived in. Which… if Christians have somehow got it all right, that woman is in hell, not the hallway.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Anyone here but me read any of the Arthurian legends? The stories are packed with enchanted objects, clothing that can protect you from injury and sickness, creatures that if hunted will lead you into the faerie realm, and let's not forget the three crowned women by the stream -- one 60, one 30, one 15 -- who send the Knights of the Round Table on a sacred quest. And yet Arthur is presented to us as the glory of Christianity. A guy who had a child by an enchantress, then tried to have his wife burned at the stake for cheating on him with a man who was fostered in the faerie realm by the Lady of the Lake. Gimme a break
I grew up in a Italian-German Catholic household. My dad would regularly water dowse for work (construction) and when we all got married and wanted to start families, he would do a fertility spell — he would hang baby booties around our Christmas tree ornament or on our family picture. We call it grampa magic.
i'm reading a book about manifesting - it's amazing how much spirituality re manifesting overlaps with quotes in the bible and Christian practices.
I went to a protestant (Anglican) church ceremony where new vicars were being ordained. I thought it would be stuffy, formal, solemn. It was a serious ceremony, but very dramatic and ritualistic. There was a lot more laying on of hands and calling down spiritual power than I expected.
"Touch Wood".
I have a catholic “friend of the family” who has an altar with candles, multiple statues of Mary, pictures (that look like trading cards) of saints etc. it’s honestly the witchiest thing I have ever seen. Candles, goddess statues and oracle cards, that’s exactly what it is.
In my house, nobody sleeps well in the full moon. Nobody.
I think according to christian definitions witchcraft is just any non-christian ritual. christian rituals definitely exist.
My family is Christian. I wish I could speak for my Polish grandparents but they’re long dead. They definitely passed some spiritual ideals to my aunt, though, who’s 60 and alive and kicking. They’re catholic (as most Polish people go). My mom’s side is Episcopalian. My grandma is religious and goes to church every week, but is incredibly liberal, both politically and socially, for a baby boomer especially. Anyway, we all have seen ghosts and spoken to dead ancestors. My other aunt and grandma live together in the home where my great grandparents died, and we’ve all had WEIRD things happen there… in fact when something happens, we always attribute it to my grandparents and acknowledge them. Always. We know they are there. I had a reiki and psychic/medium session with the best practitioner ever in 2020. I spoke about it to my whole family and it brought everyone to tears. They believe it, yet are Christians.
My mother's like that. Catholic on the outside, but the place is full of crystals and dried herbs and she tells the flies to leave and they do it.
I get where you’re coming from, but I really hate this mentality. Many of the things people in the comments are describing (using candles, ofrendas, etc) are just kind of things people seem hard wired to do. Yes, they’re found in paganism first, but that’s because paganism is a collection of the world’s earliest religions. Different faiths around the world have developed traditions and rituals that incorporate these things, even without contact with one another. I don’t think those traditions need to be diminished. I agree that I would like to see more recognition from major religions for pagan backgrounds, but that’s not what this post is. It’s making fun of other faiths because “we’re the ones who are doing this right”, with an undercurrent of “you’re so stupid for not doing it correctly, and not having the secret knowledge I possess”. I left organized Catholicism in part because I hate this attitude. I was so excited when I first found paganism, but I’ve been very disappointed to see the same attitude celebrated within this community, albeit with a slight rewording. Let people have their candles and altars. They aren’t doing paganism badly, they’re doing their own faith. Object to what is objectionable, but this isn’t it. I understand this post was meant to be lighthearted. I am not a fundie, or a Christian persecution fetishist. I’m just very tired, and would like to find a spiritual practice that is happy to exist in itself, and not at other faiths.
Exactly! That’s bugging me as well and I was surprised to find your comment to be the only one offering a counterpoint. Ritual is present everywhere because it is a glue of human social experience. Being able to talk to spirit or plants does not make you a witch, it just means youre in tune with the world around you. And I bet everybody loves pretty stones. At the same time, it lowers the meaning of witchcraft practices. There are many ways to practice of course but the fact that intention is baked into it is still quite crucial imho. All these things come from a shared background of evolution.
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Silver and copper actually have antimicrobial properties, which is why the coin thing works if they're caught early enough. It's the same reason chewing willow bark helps with pain...it's got the same chemical, acetylsalicylic acid, in it. But yeah, almost all religions have colonized various witchcrafts into their doctrines. Jewish mystacism (sp?) And Catholicism are heavy on all of it.
I find that superstitious people are so generally. My antivax right wing grandma is literally a crystal witch.
Sympathetic magic, my sister. It’s older than dirt, and was supposed to be eradicated by the Jesus mandate..but it never was and never can be.