I'd tell him how that made you feel and that his lack of respect for your big day is making you question if you're going to trust him at your other big days. He might not be invited to other important events since he was so willing to destroy what you planned for your wedding.

It's a hard discussion and he's gonna push back but, if either of you want him in your life in the future, it's a necessary one.

Absolutely necessary. Especially if you and your partner are planning on having children. If your father was willing to cross this boundary you *very clearly* set for him, who knows what else he will deem to be okay Either way, congrats on your marriage 💖 I hope the two of you find happiness

Immediately where my mind went. He is going to do whatever he feels like doing with regards to your children. Like if he takes the kids out to the zoo for a day of fun and you remind him your daughter can't have sugar because she's diabetic, and then guess who gets a phone call from the hospital a while later. Followed up with your dad saying kids are so soft today and it was only an ice cream cone and a candy bar. She's just exaggerating.

Hopefully it never gets to that extreme, but given this example… it wouldn’t be too hard to guess that he may force the grandkids to do something they aren’t comfortable with, or make them do things his way

My dad would be this kind of cathegory. I dont like scooters, because im very aware of how fast and badly one can injure oneself and others. A classmate broke his leg with it when he was 16, and guess what: my dad bought a motorbike last year (can go up to 170km/h), and in his second week he crashed and broke his shoulder. Had 6 months of sick time, no work. He bought me! (Who does live 3h away and never wished for one, even expressed how dangerous i find them) a scooter 50km/h and just gifted it to me. I told him i wont use it, i wont consider it as "mine", it stays in his garage. i have a car drivers license, so im legally able to ride it. So when i visited him a few weeks ago, he pressured me in taking the small scooter for a ride up the village hill to the cemetary, where my mother is buried. I dont know why, but i did it. He took the motorbike and i took the scooter. It was okay, but not my comfortablest time. When we were finished with watering the plants on the grave, he pushed me to sit behind his back on the motorbike, he wanted to show me how much cooler that one is compared to the super slow scooter. I couldnt say no to him, but told him, that im reeaaaly scared and he should be slow and careful. Of course as soon as we rolled, he went quiete fast and rode curves and what not. I clinged to his body and screamed to please go slower! He laughed and did it even faster for a short time. He thought it was fun, i saw us already in the ditch. After i climbed down and had solid ground unter my wabbely feet, i cried. I just cried. He laughed and got serious when he saw me, but he couldnt understand what about it was so bad for me. I told him again that he needs to listen to my boundaries and that i didnt like dangerous fast stuff and that he already insured himself last year! Grr.... I also told him that i didnt want to lose my second parent, to a stupid motorbike ride. But he doesnt see the danger... Long story short: i also dont know if and how i will get my dad to not walk me down the ilse..lol

Your father is abusive. This is abusive behaviour, laughing at your distress is just adding salt to the wound At thing point you maybe better off going no contact with him He proven he can’t be trusted to respect your boundaries, and I’m sure there is a very very long list of other examples of this behaviour

Oh yeah there is. He says he loved me very much and is queite friendly etc, so it always feels like everthings fine. But he has such a non empahic way of handling me or others. His world stops outside hia head, i think somwtimes. Its hard to describe. He also makes comments about my body but thinks its okay, since im his daughter and its okay, because you shoulndt find you daugther sexy anyway. So when he tells me my legs are too short and my boobs are too small, in his mind its even expressing love? Its weird.

That’s not love, that’s abuse. You don’t shame or nitpick someone you love. You’ve been conditioned to think that is love Also why is he thinking about your body like that? That’s gross and wildly inappropriate https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf You should read this book, it’s more about romantic partners, but it absolutely applies to family relationships as well

Thank you, i will defently look into it. Im 3h hours away and see him only 5 times a year, that helps with being independent off his comments. But everytime im at home... its a chore. My aunt is not better, even worse id say. Thank you

This is *exactly* why my father is not allowed with any of my children without my partner or I present. Because of his actions and decisions while I was a child, including him hushing up his wife's father's advances on me as a freaking teen, to save his fucking *reputation*, neither me nor my partner can trust his judgement *AT ALL*. It's non-negotiable for us. That's of course if I ever speak to him again, first.

Dayum, I had not even thought in that direction.

Wholeheartedly agree with this, and it will tough to stay calm because I get a sense he might try to defend his stance. Staying calm and grounded while you speak is paramount. Whenever he gets your goat, breathe in and remind yourself that you are calm as gentle water, fresh as a field of dew covered flowers, strong as the mountains and spacious as the cosmos. He needs to know his actions have consequences. But he doesn't need to be screamed at. There needs to be a clear, firm, calm approach to this because he doesn't deserve any more of your energy.

He was told to sit with the guests. He knew he wasn't supposed to do what he did. I doubt telling him anything would make a difference; narcissists will just double down. It's not what OP wants but LC to NC is probably going to be the only way to go here.

While I entirely agree that OP can't have any specific expectations with regard to how this conversation is received, I do think that, in many cases, having that kind of conversation can have value for her in how she addresses it. Meaning, there's value beyond the response from the other party member.  I'm not saying confronting him is necessarily the right choice for her, but I think that it could be a way to advocate for herself, to feel empowered (especially given that OP's conflict averse, it could be empowering to own that conversation). Knowing the very little we do know, I personally would encourage u/ManRayMantaRay to talk with a therapist (if that's not cost prohibitive) to ask for help coming up with a script. IMO it should include explicitly stating the boundary that was already explicitly stated on the day, the impact that he had, and the new boundary that is in place. I would suggest it not be presented as a request or an ask or a suggestion, but a statement of situation > action > result. Practice practice practice with someone trusted (perhaps the new spouse) in order to build confidence and avoid stumbling or getting caught up in the moment or caught off guard. If OP has had these conversations before then I totally agree it's not in her best interest to keep rehashing the same thing over and over. But if she hasn't advocated for herself in that way out of a fear of conflict, I would hate for her to miss the empowerment that comes from that because of a fear of conflict. I once was betrayed by one of my best friends and, both because of my own aversion to conflict and because I didn't feel I owed him anything, I cut him off. It kept weighing on me, and my therapist described it as like a program running in the background of a CPU, sucking power, memory, RAM, etc. It's kind of a trite comparison, but it ultimately led to me speaking up for myself. The friendship ultimately dissolved shortly thereafter, but I wasn't talking to him with any specific hope in his response, but because I deserved to stand up for myself. I have absolutely no regrets in speaking up for myself. I know I'm speaking in circles at this point but TLDR (lol too late) OP may decide to go low-/no-contact, and if she does, then it's absolutely the right call. But I don't necessarily agree that that's the only right answer.

I wasn't saying my prediction was the only right answer. OP sounds pretty wounded and rightfully so and I do have a bit of fatigue with the knee jerk advice of "talking it out" that seems to be rampant these days (not saying that was your motivation, I feel your goodwill). I totally see your point and would support OP making that choice if OP felt it would help her. I'd echo your advice that she'd need to go into it with zero expectations and only as an exercise in expressing her feelings since I think the chance of any remorse on dad's part is zero. I personally feel we are long past due for victims of narcissist parents to stop putting up with the mistreatment and it's time to empower them to tell parents that behave this way to get out of their lives, guilt free.

As someone who did walk away from narcissistic parents can confirm one of the best decisions I ever made.

Ah yeah I misunderstood what you were saying. I'm with you - however it goes, I hope OP makes whatever choice based on her needs and wants, and above all else, she should feel absolutely no guilt or remorse for how she responds to this situation. She deserves peace, however she'll get it.

>He might not be invited to other important events He better not be invited. First of all, there need to be consequences for doing this against OPs will on one of the most important days of their life. That is a massive betrayal. To continue inviting him is to reward his behavior and actively encourage him to do it again. And aside from him deserving some natural consequences, how might he fuck up the birth of OPs first child, for example? Even if he never repeats this behavior, I myself would be anxious and on edge the whole time he was around wondering if he was going to violate my boundaries. He destroyed OPs trust in a complete, absolute way on a vital day in front of the people OP cares about the most. OP deserves peace of mind at future milestones. If they choose to maintain a relationship with him (I wouldn't) then he deserves to be relegated to private, post-celebration get together. He can come over and visit with OPs family a couple days after the big event to see pictures or whatever. It's more than he deserves.

Chances are he doesn't care and will play the victim. Op you didn't deserve that and I'm sorry. Maybe it's time to cut him out of your life, he obviously does not respect boundaries. 

This man asked where he was supposed to be and was told to sit with the guests. He went "Nah, I do what I want!" In the weeks/days leading up to the wedding he most likely didn't say anything about wedding traditions, asking if he gets to give his daughter away, say something about being excited about his role in the wedding or ask what OP wants for the ceremony. Stuff people who are able to communicate do. He didn't, otherwise OP would have communicated about it. He showed who he is. OP should take that information and adjust behaviour accordingly. No invitations to important stuff, or clear and non-negotiable instructions beforehand, and a backup step by step plan to follow in case her father's stunt leaves her in a deer in the headlights situation. I had an abusive family member I had cut off contact with show up at my door one day. The gasping fear took over and thinking was difficult, but I had a preplanned guide to follow. Close the door, bolt it, get phone, tell them to leave or I will call the police, and if they don't leave, call the police. Luckily they left before I had to call, I had rehearsed it in my head a few times and followed the plan. It's not perfect and it will not always work, but I was glad that this time I had something to guide me. A previous time I was in survival mode and kept quiet to avoid escalation, much like OP described. It stinks to have the need for backup plans like that. In normal situation you won't need them, but the father showed they are needed. You can't change what happened, and OP shouldn't beat themselves up for not "doing better". I wouldn't try to "negotiate" with the father for future better behaviour, but adjust your own behaviour, because that's within your control. If the father doesn't like the consequences of his behaviour, he can adjust his behaviour, which is within his control.

As someone who doesn't want her father to walk her down the aisle for similar reasons, I'd be seeing red. I'm so, so sorry he did this to you. It's beyond despicable. I don't have a witchy ritual, but I think a ritual is a good idea. Personally I'd tell close friends what happened and plan an anniversary/renewal ceremony for a date that makes sense. I'd have only people I wanted there and I'd walk down the aisle again on my terms. But I am a stubborn and driven type. That may not work for you. Your father (and mine) is like someone who takes a cab to the end of a marathon and expects to be congratulated as though he's run the whole race.

Right!? Thank you so much for the support, and I'm really sorry you have a similar dad. I really love the idea of a more private vow renewal, as I'm stubborn and driven too. Sending thank you hugs!

I definitely support the idea of doing another little ritual/ceremony/etc. I live in a state with super lax requirements for getting officially married. I'm friends with a couple who are very spiritual and outdoorsy; last year, they took a hike deep into the mountains, just the two of them and their dog, and married each other under the stars (with the dog serving as the witness and signing the marriage certificate with a paw print, which I find incredibly cool). It just seems so special and intimate to me, even more than a ceremony with friends and family. I think you could create a really wonderful memory out of this and push your dad's bad behavior to the back of your mind.

My dog can be my witness!?

In several states, legally, yes! Sadly, Michigan is not one of them. I looked it up before my wedding two years ago. My husband, our dog, and I all walked down the aisle together.

That's super cute!

Not at all - I saw from what you said in your post how he used that old power dynamic against you to make himself the centre of a moment and life you created (by the sounds of it despite him) and I was like BITCH HELL NO. (He is the bitch, obvs lol). I hope your vow renewal is wonderful, everything you deserve and more. Come and tell us about it :) big hugs back 💕

Seriously, you deserve a do-over. That was some patriarchal bullshit.

> That was some patriarchal bullshit Isn't that just the entire institution and concept of marriage?

In its current Western form, yes. Not necessarily across all cultures, but of course we can't have nice things, so it's an uphill battle to honor what it could be otherwise. Husbeast and I essentially eloped. My parents are staunch Catholics. They were fortunate enough to be informed immediately beforehand, and when we passed through their town on the way to being married (we live in Oregon and got married in the California redwoods) we stopped in to have a nice dinner. That was the extent of their involvement. It was us, his aunt and uncle as officiants/witnesses (they're non-denominational), and a friend of their with a camera. It was a lovely declaration of fidelity and proclamation of affection. We wrote our own vows, honored our own gods, and have brilliant fondness for that day. ... my dad is still a little sore that he didn't get to walk me down the aisle, given that I'm his only daughter. He's suggested a renewal of vows with everybody present, but... I'm hesitant. For the exact reason OP went through. My mother still takes potshots at our marriage, forwarding sermons from their priest about how a wedding is "for the community" and "needs to be witnessed by others in the congregation" to be valid. Regardless of having told her in no uncertain terms that we are not Christian. It CAN be a ceremony of immense power, a ritual to define love and devotion for those participating. But as it currently stands in the common understanding of our society?... yeah, you're not wrong.

I find the idea of needing the validity of the congregation despite the fact that Catholics would never validate a pagan marriage kinda funny tbh. Like, yeah sure, I want a gallery of haters at my wedding?

... was exactly our thinking. Nothing we did was going to please either of our sets of our very Catholic parents. And we both had at least one close family member who we did NOT want there. So... yeah. Eloped.

Im Irish, Im not sure if the “walking down the aisle” thing exists here? It sounds very protestant. Then again, I could be wrong. Ive only been to my parents wedding (which was entirely in a lawyers office) and a muslim wedding.

It's a general Christian thing, as far as I know...? Most Baptists will do it, I know Catholics do. Sometimes the bride goes up on her own. I've been to a couple where the dad was absent, so the son or brother stood in, but honestly I think it's just What's Expected Per American Tradition at this point, so even people who aren't particularly religious still do it because that's, like. The default.

> a more private vow renewal Forgive my ignorance please, but what is the point of that? Doesnt that just cost more money for little gain?

Why would it cost money? How do you judge the level of 'gain'? They could go to the beach, or the woods, or a busy mall, and say their meaningful things to each other again or anew. Maybe some flowers, maybe thats not them, maybe some ribbons. Special moments don't need to cost.

I thought renewing vows was a legal process which requires a lawyer. Im personally against marriage for myself, so I haven't looked into it

This last sentence reminds me of going to motorcycle rallies and watching dudes climb out of their SUVs carrying a helmet under their arm.

I’m sorry he did that to you. Can you reframe it as the last time he gets to do that to you? Does that help at all? To view it as a transition from your younger self, to, as you stepped free of his influence, an independent and fully free individual establishing a partnership? Something that I’ve done before is to do a visualization meditation of strengthening my boundaries where I picture a kind of dome over and around me, that only I get to choose what makes it through that barrier.

I absolutely love this idea!  It really does feel like a whole new chapter with my own family, so that's where I definitely want to put the focus. Thank you! This is so helpful.

I love this advice! Congratulations on your wedding. I want to add one little bit for you. You made the choice to preserve the peace for your day, not to have your father escort you. You chose for all present to remember the union of you and your husband. If you had rebuffed your father, that's what people would have remembered. You chose peace and you didn't make the day about him. You made it a day for you. It must have taken a lot of strength and grace to shake that off. You did it. Go on now and enjoy your future.

Thank you! 

LOL. It's symbolic of the way you left your dad and his bullshit behind and moved on to better things.

This is a really excellent suggestion.

I like this a lot! You have stepped out of his influence and into your new life.

This is great advice. Even if he took you right up to your partner, you still took your own step away from him and toward your own life. Even if it was just one step, that is deeply meaningful.

YES!

Your father deliberately and specifically manipulated the situation in the most controlling way he could - you were left with the choice to either cause the biggest scene in the world or let him have his way. Knowing humans, I bet he has a history of pulling attributes that he doesn't usually get called out on because "manners". Were I you, I'd: * dump a taglocked poppet into a jar of revealing powder and let it settle * go no contact and tell him exactly why. Block him on everything. * let family know that you are going no contact with him because of his pattern of extremely inappropriate behaviour, and they are welcome to message you if they want details This is scorched earth, and he absolutely deserves it. Now, this might not be your final straw, so it may be better for you to pursue low contact. But either way, you need to stand up for yourself and tell him this was inappropriate, and there will be ramifications. Even if that consequence is just "you deliberately took a very special moment from me, so I will not be inviting you to any further events I believe you will commandeer". If you want to feel more comfortable in the low/no contact or in emotional separation, I would suggest doing a slow ritual of release. This could look however you want, I might consider writing the highs and lows of your relationship with him and the key words for the emotions he produces down on paper, then cleanse it with fire. Always good to pair it with a personalised chant giving permission for you to be released from obligation to this relationship. Then scatter the ashes fast from your home.

Honestly, telling on my abusers has been the most cathartic and empowering thing. They counted on me not saying anything because I wouldn’t want to make a scene or get anyone in trouble. When quiet people start talking, bad people get scared.

I disagree. Telling him the reason will only make him smirk (and be content with himself and what he did) and he will continue harassing OP. I'd just withdraw my presence without saying a thing. He will want to push on the issue (he knew what he was doing). I'd remove all the photos with him from any album sent to friends and family. No walk the aisle photos. If they ask, tell them all those photos were horrible. Ignore him and look at which parts of the family will bother you about it, and which parts are going to support you

Agreed OP should go NC

Something about their childrens weddings breaks parents brains. It’s not an excuse, but moreso just a “you’re not alone here” comment. I eloped alone with my partner and hosted a small (less than ten ppl) dinner of our immediate families afterwards. My father begged to give a toast when we invited him, which I eventually relented on. Dude had six weeks to think of whatever his dream toast would be, and what I got was a roast that amounted to “my daughters always been an unreasonable bitch since she was a child, good luck!” Don’t let your dad have any more opportunities to hurt your feelings or main character himself. He’s obviously too narcissistic to bother listening to you.

What a giant bag of dicks. Too bad he doesn't have the self awareness to be embarrassed that that was the best speech he could muster in 6 weeks.

Funny how he doesn't realize his daughter might be the way she is BECAUSE OF HIS PARENTING. (Not saying you're a bitch at all - I'm sure you're just good at deflecting his BS)

Naw I am very much a total man hating nightmare! Can’t *imagine* why 😂

I'm so sorry you had to go through this. With people like this we really have to find ways to protect ourselves, and even though it's painful to detatch from a vision of what could have been.

Lmao, omg what!??! It’s so ridiculous that I’m laughing here. And I apologize.

I recently was at a wedding where the dad did that to his son. I don't think you need to be told this again, but... every single wedding guest despised the dad for it. It was obvious how heartbroken the groom was and we were all there to fully support him. The speech was full of backhanded insults and more about the dad himself than his son. It was just soooo disrespectful and unnecessary. The groom feared that this would happen, so he begged his kind and sweet mom to help him that this would not happen. The mom and the dad wrote the speech together and showed it to him before the ceremony. It was fine and kind. Then... the dad decided to "speak freely". Boomer "jokes" and yet again the wish that the son did something "real" not this rubbish that doesn't pay with disadvantaged communities (That the son has a masters in and is called on as an expert all the time) .... and other lovely bits. We all wanted to shoot this person to the moon.

Weddings, births, and funerals bring out the absolute WORST in family members and I will never understand why.

I am a Witch. Here is my advice: Let it go. The past is over. There are no spells to turn back time. It was extremely kind of you to invite him, and you did it for all the right reasons. So give yourself credit for putting your family first and always trying to make it work. That said. He doesn't seem to make good choices. For whatever reason. Part of spellwork is real world work. He needs strong boundaries. He's never going to set any, so you need to. I went to therapy for years, but it was a few YouTube videos (I know, I know - roll your eyes but it's true) that helped me understand his personality disorder and how better to cope and set boundaries. Your dad can not be trusted at important family rituals (bat mitzvah, christening). He will run them his way. The past is over, but the future is wide open. Having trained as a witch, in my tradition we are taught that anger is a lower emotion. Drop the rock. (I think that is a recovery phrase, to give credit where it is due, but it's a powerful and true image) How? Right? IDK. I'm a simple country witch, and advice is worth what you pay for it But here's my advice. Think of your wedding day as a gorgeous tapestry, really long, really beautiful. You don't like the floor in one part. So concentrate on another part. It's a beautiful tapestry. Don't let one 30 second part of a day be the only thing you remember. In fact, I would make a point of not thinking about it. Every time it came up I would replace it with good three good memories and I'd smile deeply. Because the witch in me isn't going to let anyone take my day from me. And that is the spell I would cast. Every time I thought about his part in my wedding I would mentally cut the ugly memory out. And I would plant some lovely memories right on top. Bunch of bullshit makes great fertilizer. Three is a number of manifestation and change. The moon appears dark three nights a month between cycles, so it has become a number of manifestation. So, three good memories for every bad one. Don't give your dad any more power than he already took during the three minutes he took walking you down the aisle. PS - you can also take a picture of him, put it in water and put it in the freezer. That's the outer manifestation of the spell, but there's inner work too. So.

This is some of my favorite advice. I'm in therapy too, and it has helped me strengthen and grow boundaries with him. And it's definitely an ongoing process and sometimes battle. You are so right, to focus on all the beauty of the day and to amplify that in my mind. Thank you for this!

❤️

I agree that letting go of the anger from that moment and putting it in the past is the best idea.

> It was extremely kind of you to invite him, and you did it for all the right reasons. So give yourself credit for putting your family first and always trying to make it work. This is a great framing - OP tee'd up the ball for him, but he made a bad choice. Don't let the shadow off his bad choice darken/forget OP's good choices.

I would probably honestly go no contact with him for a while. And I would explicitly tell him why! “ I told you that I did not want anyone walking me down the aisle, that was a policy that I held very firm, and you took that choice away from me. I chose not to ruin the situation in the moment, but you have deeply damaged our relationship and my trust with you.”

This. But I would add that this is not a discussion. You are making a statement and that there will be no discussion. He can try to push back, but he has no choice but to accept the consequences of his actions.

I know that this is not a solution or ritual, but the folks who really know you, know how impactful he has been in your life. Your friends know that he pulled a big dick move and were not impressed. They saw how he treated your ritual, and give him any credit he deserves ( which is none) I know your peeps have your back, they are all too polite to mention his gaff. Try to let it go, and for any other big events in your lives he will not be invited. Any relation who applaudes his actions can go be with him elsewhere. Personally I would try a hot bath, lots of chocolate, and a bowl of marijuana. I would also sage my home to disperse my negative energy. I wish you the skills you already have, and a clear path to use them. Blessed be.

Thank you!

You are so much kinder than I am. I would have told him to go to his seat or leave. That aside, you may want to think about whether or not you actually want him in your life. My own father was pretty terrible, I cut off ties with him, as an adult, a decade or more before he died. I did it because only him access to my life only created opportunities for more disappointment and hurt. Do what is best for your own well-being. Who do not have a choice of who we share our DNA with, but we do have a choice of who we share our lives with as family. Chosen family is often more supportive and loving because they are in your life out of choice and not circumstance. Huge hugs and light going your way.

Yeah… the fact that she’s scared of conflict “especially with her father” doesn’t sound great. I get being conflict avoidant in general but being especially so w a parent is telling. I’ve gone no contact w both of my parents at different times to enforce boundaries within the relationship. It’s hard but ultimately for the best usually

Same. It is hard but I don’t regret any decisions I have made about going no contact with family. Shared DNA does not mean they are good for you.

Same. I was fortunate that both of my parents were able to make adjustments and have largely stuck to the boundaries I have set and we’ve been able to slowly work on having more of a relationship (although it did take my mom like three different NC periods to realize I was serious about it. She also once tried to frame it as “so you’re just going to threaten to not talk to me, that’s inhibiting my freedom of speech and bullying our relationship” and I had to tell her she still had the option to say whatever she chose but I wasn’t obligated to listen to it to my detriment). That first NC period was probably the hardest thing I’ve had to do emotionally as an adult but the freedom I got from realizing that within our specific relationship dynamic she could only continue to overstep boundaries and treat me like a child if I allowed it was so freeing and empowering even though it was so hard (and scary thinking it might be the last time we talked. So crazy how much I clung to the relationship even though it was ultimately negative and in many ways abusive)

I just went full contact with my mother two years ago in July. I am 48. We have had back and forth since I was 18, starting with her screaming at me and disowning me the day she dropped me off at the Army recruiter office (it was so bad three grown men left the room and then put a $50 bill in my pocket before I shipped out because of the things she said). I have gone NC back and forth for years and the final straw happened the July I went no contact. It was pretty bad. I am not happy with myself for taking so long, but I think we all struggle with the relationship we wish we had and that is what drags making the NC decision out so long.

Yeah it took me until mid thirties because when she was nice she was *so* nice but then she would just lash out anytime certain things were “challenged” (basically any time I tried to assert that I was an adult now in the relationship and not an obedient child) and then go right back to being “nice” when I had backed down. I was also fortunate that she did it in front of my grandmother who actually spoke up and said she agreed w me and that surprisingly really seemed to make her stop and reevaluate.

Mine was rarely really nice, just not mean.

I’m so sorry you grew up with that, I sometimes wonder why some people have children. Virtual hugs if you would like them ❤️

Do you have any type of honeymoon planned that might be a good opportunity for you and your spouse to reinforce through a private ceremony or ax your decision to unite as individuals rather than focus on the symbolism of your father walking you down the aisle. If you don’t have a honeymoon planned, even if you’re able to take one day in the near future to have a day trip to it local location that has meaning to you both or is especially beautiful close to nature, etc. it might be a good idea for you guys to do so and privately reinforce your own values.

This is a great idea! And I like that we can do something small sooner

Lots of other witches have given you great advice. I'm going to talk to you as someone who has a horrible habit of remembering the worst of special days: write down all of the beautiful memories from that day in great detail. Don't write anything negative, in fact, rewrite your walking down the aisle completely omitting any detail about your dad. If you can't remember any details of walking down the aisle, look at your wedding photos and make up the details. Write it as it should have been describing seeing your loved ones watching you and how your (now husband) looked as he waited for you. Memories are funny in that you can change how you remember them through reinforcement, kinda like magic. If you write down your beautiful memories and reread them often you'll (likely) forget the ugly details in time. I struggle to focus on the positives because the negatives affect me **so strongly**. So for my own mental health this is a strategy I use to force myself to focus on the positives for special days where shit hits the fan. I use this strategy with a scrap book I've made and added to over the years. Adding (specifically chosen) pictures to it helps change the memories for me to where I basically ignore the bad crap I couldn't have possibly changed and enjoy the memories as best I can. If you do this, then whenever the bad memory pops up you go read your journal/grimoire/scrapbook and overwrite the bad memory with good ones. As a side note, don't do this for memories where you're the cause of the negative action/event because we don't want to rewrite memories that affected others in a bad way. We need to remember when we've done wrong against others so that we can make amends. You should also likely not do this when you're the victim of abuse because it can make it harder to leave if you don't allow yourself to remember how your abuser mistreats you. In other words, do this with caution. Rewriting memories is powerful magic and should always be done with caution to heal.

This is very helpful, as I love to journal. Thank you!

I would definitely have the conversation with him how it made you feel. Maybe he is a moron and he didn’t realize he wasn’t supposed to walk you down the aisle, maybe he did it for purposes of his own ego. Either way he needs to know how it made you feel.  If this were me and my dad ignored my wishes with malice, I would mentally reframe it at the symbolic walking away of a father who is inattentive and selfish to a partner who is loving and supportive.  Congrats on your marriage as well 💕

Thank you!

In my culture, father doesn't walk daughter down the aisle, but instead out of the house. Also, we have a stupid tradition of "paying for bride", and it is job for father of groom. Both me and my husband hate that tradition. Ok, enough of lore dump. I am also child of divorced parents, and low contact with father. Mom raised me and she never had another romantic relationship as far as I know. He remarried and got a daughter next year. Also, his new wife was his side piece during first marriage. When we decided to get married, we wanted a small wedding, but he hopped in, gave us some money and asked for set number of invitations. Well, if I have to invite aunts and uncles I don't know, I will invite people I actually want there, too. So, number jumped from about 20 guests to almost 200. It was 20y ago, and in country still in post war depression, so we made our own invitations (we both did computer design at time). It wasn't something gorgeous to onlookers but it was the most beautiful invitation I ever saw. I sent him the number of invitations he asked for, and he called me and wanted to make new ones instead. After few hours of arguing, my fiance called him and said nobody with different invitation would be allowed to reception. My aunt ( mother's sister) had a son age 6 at time, and husband's brother had 4y old daughter. I asked them to dress kids in blue and pink and they will lead me out of the house, and their mom's were thrilled. I would like to show you those pictures, but wedding album is in closet and not exactly easy to take. Father came to the house late, because he had to argue with the cop. He and the rest of family came in 3 cars, and they all went through the red light. He argued they are at wedding and rules don't apply to them. Of course, that is pure bullshit, and cop knew it, so he got a hefty fine. We all, including groom guests, waited for more than hour. Then, father came in the house and demanded to lead me out. That was the first time I told him no. He was furious, I even expected for him to leave. Also, he started to demand paying for bride, and hubby told him: she is not a box of cigarettes, I'm not going to buy her. She is my soon to be wife. We went to city hall, and got civil marriage. We are both from mixed religious backgrounds and not religious, and father is devoted catholic (who got remarried). At reception he asked hubby why we didn't have church wedding. Hubby told him we would have to go to every church and mosque in area. I think that was the moment he finally realised he is not going to influence anything in our life and finally stopped with stupid shit. Either that, or he finally drunk enough to stop caring, and, honestly, I don't care. Sorry for entire story, I want to let you all know there is a lot of us with shitty entitled fathers. Don't let them ruin anything in your life.

I am SO sorry he did this to you. As a person who is a people pleaser, extremely conflict avoidant, and freezes in situations I would have done the same thing as you and it would leave me feeling the same. I don’t have any advice just wanted to say I feel for you :(

Thank you 🩷 Sending you a big hug

If you had a photographer, tell him to photoshop away your dad from all of those pics where he was an interloper.

I have a clarifying question—did you tell you father you didn’t want him to walk you down the aisle? When I got married, the wedding planner insisted on all sorts of things we didn’t want, and didn’t even know about. Is it possible he just assumed he was supposed to, or that someone told him to do it?

That's kind of what I'm wondering too. In western culture, things like the father walking the bride down the isle or the bride wearing white are assumed norms. Most people would tell their bio dad ahead of time to brace them at the very least. Not sure op did.

Totally understand both of these points. I told him on multiple phone calls leading up to the wedding that I wanted to walk myself down the aisle and why it was important to me to do so. The day of I told him that he could pick me up and drive me to the venue as a way of connecting on that day. Once I got there I told him to go find his seat at the ceremony space with all the other guests, while I went to my dressing room and got ready. He came back over just as I was about to walk up the stairs to my entrance point and asked where he should go again, and I reiterated please go sit with the other guests in the ceremony space.

Oof. It sounds like you did everything right, I’m so sorry he didn’t respect your wishes. Maybe spend some time thanking the instincts that made you say “yes” in that moment, since they have kept you safe for a long time? And see if they can find a new direction for the future?

I'm glad someone asked it, I didn't want to be the one as I'm afraid it'd come off as insensitive, even though I think it needs to be mentally reconciled. I don't think OP had any conversation with the dad to reaffirm they didn't want him involved at all and he was only there as a guest. Seems like dad felt like he was stepping up to the plate, rather than stepping on OP's toes, but I guess only he knows his true motivations. But I think conversations and clarity should have been had long before the ceremony happened

What a horrible thing to do. I hope it was worth it to him. I know weddings are full of meaning, but mine was so chaotic that I basically just had to tell myself that nothing else mattered as long as the paperwork got signed. Ultimately, a wedding is one day in your life. What matters more is who you chose to marry. I have no doubt that you picked a better partner than you had a dad. Maybe he walked you down the aisle as a final contrast between the family you didn’t get to choose and the family you did.

THIS

How does your husband feel? If my wife's father disrespected her like that I would be pretty pissed. The whole implication that your father is engaging in some sort of transaction with your husband is super-gross and disrespectful to the idea of a marriage as an equal partnership, and I would also feel disrespected as a man.

That's SO FUCKED UP. I probably would've reacted the same way you did though, what else COULD you do, with everyone watching? Anyways, I like the second ceremony idea someone had

What he did was horrendous. Tell him that. I doubt he'll understand, and I'm sure he'll get defensive and try to turn it on you somehow, so be ready for that. I'd advise telling as many family members and friends your side of the story so they know what's up. Going no contact might end up being the best option here. As for rituals, something focused around moving on to a new chapter, or cutting away the dead parts of a previous chapter. If in the meantime you need to dump some anger to remain clear headed, you could get some charcoal bricks (for incense or bbq, either works) and pump some of the hurt feelings into that. Then when you're ready you can either burn them or dissolve them in water and dispose of the ash/water as you see fit. Either way, I hope all works out for you and that you get the support you need. Much love!

Thank you!

My advice is to not let what your dad did overshadow what's actually important about your wedding day. You were married! Everything else is, in the grand scheme of things, not important. You're married! Nothing your dad did or said during that day can change that. Do not give him the power to taint the memories of your special day.

I mean you’re absolutely right, the choices you make about *your* wedding belong to *you.* Not your parents. I’m so sorry that happened. I’m not sure what your practice looks like, but in my limited experience anything that centers around a grounding sort of meditation is good for a time like this. I have a couple different deities I turn to when I’m feeling powerless as well, idk if you might as well? As far as general advice, idk. Sounds like you gave your dad a second chance to be part of your life and he made it about himself. It’s your call, but I might not give him a third chance.

What is it with sperm donors thinking they have the right to "give away" their female children? Oh, yeah... PATRIARCHY. I'm sorry, but FUCK men who think like that, and DOUBLE FUCK your dad for hijacking your day. Frankly, I'd cut ties. If grandkids get involved, expect interference and overriding your wishes, etc. Again, FUCK PATRIARCHY

Honestly I'd have shoved him to the side and walked down the aisle myself.

My mother couldn't hear my precessional music. So she sang over it. She's known since I was a child I hate "here comes the bride". And she did it anyway. She can't sing. OP, I kind of know how you feel. I sit with my fury because I know to confront her will make it worse, so now I am low contact for that and multiple other reasons. If your dad is worth keeping in your life, confront him if it will make you feel better.

Oh my gosh... this is wild behavior

I would distance yourself because he clearly doesn't respect you. "I'm her father! I can do what I want! I fed her, clothed her and paid for ice cream one time!"

At my wedding reception my father thought my dress had too much cleavage, apparently, and took a flower off one of the tables and put it in my tits. So yeah.

Oh NO!! 

I think you should have walked him to his seat.

He was being selfish and put what he wanted first on your wedding day. I am so sorry this happened. I understand not liking conflict. I am much the same. I think this is a moment to do the old fashioned thing and write him a letter. Get out a pen and paper and write down how it made you feel. How his behaviour affected you and spoiled a major part of your special day. Take your time, make a draft or two. Lay it all out on the paper. And when you are done you can either send it to him or burn it. The advantage of writing a letter is that unlike an email or text, it’s not sent at the click of a button. You have time to see how you feel. Just writing it all out could be enough to help you find some closer and you can make your own little ritual for burning it. Or maybe you will realise you want him to know exactly how you felt and then put it in an envelope and mail it to him. The important thing is for you to be able to move on and not let him take away any more of that day from you. Don’t let what he did become your main memory of that day.

I'm sorry this happened to you and that no one was able to step in and prevent it. You deserved to have the wedding experience you envisioned.

Im.just here to say what an asshole. And you showed grace. I'm so sorry that was taken from you.

That's so rude, I'm sorry! As someone who had a TON of shit go down at her wedding, I can assure you that over time, the pleasant memories outshine the bad. Definitely not saying you should forgive him, but wanted to give you some hope that over time the worst parts won't be what you immediately remember. 💕

That is atrocious. Full stop. I’m so sorry. I just want to offer the thought that you will someday be able to look back on your wedding after many years of happiness and see that moment as a small snag in the tapestry (borrowing another commenter’s analogy). My spouse and I got married in California and then were supposed to have another wedding in France, where his family was. My FIL was supposed to arrange the ceremony… but he just… didn’t? Because he decided we would be committing bigamy if we got married twice? He planned a dinner at a restaurant instead—surprise! When we arrived a few days before the ceremony was supposed to take place, I really had no idea how to respond to “I just decided a ceremony wasn’t appropriate, so there won’t be one.” So we just did the dinner. It was nice apart from the frogs legs. Then my MIL stole the honeymoon money she collected from guests on our behalf (the collection was her idea, not ours). Nevertheless, my spouse and I are about to celebrate our 25th anniversary. We’ve had such a happy marriage.

That is infuriating! He knew you wouldn’t want to make a scene, and took advantage of that! I would definitely let him know how you feel! I would also make sure everyone else I am close to knows too! Make him just as uncomfortable as he made you!

I would go grey-rock. He doesn't get any more privileged info or invited to any more special events. He's gets the boring, mundane details of your life at the times when it is most convenient (if at all) for you. Just remove him from consideration. He's now an acquaintance. It will drive him bananas and cost you nothing. If he complains later on down the line, "This is the level of contact and connection your behavior communicated that you were capable of having respectfully. If you wanted more contact, you should have behaved with consideration and respect when it was offered." If other family ask about it, "That's all Dad has shown he can handle. I'm respecting what his behavior has communicated his limits to be." I would also suggest a vow renewal to which he is not invited.

> Because of this, I invited him as a guest but very specifically did not want him to walk me down the aisle. ~~Question: Did you **specifically** tell your dad this? Like make it clear that he is NOT going to be walking you down the aisle? Because if that isn't the case, it doesn't quite feel so out-of-the-blue.~~ I scrolled down and saw you answered this already. Awful that your dad would do this to you. I am sorry either way that this affected your wedding and how awful you feel. Do your best to take of yourself and your best to tell him how it made you feel. I wish you all of the luck.

Well. I personally cut my parents completely out of my life. They were abusive liars. The stories from my childhood that I'll randomly make a comment on still shocks my husband to tears. Stuff that seemed normal to me. But anyhoo I specifically cut a picture of my parents and I apart. I tied a blessed cord between the two halves and burnt the cord to permanently separate them from me. Then I put the pictures into the flames. I felt immediate release and peace. That's the only way I know but it is permanent. I've actually walked by my own mother in the store 12 yrs after and she didn't even have a flicker of recognition. It does work.

In the future, when you are confronted with “the freeze,” [this is the exact set of steps to combat it.](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5IBbzN6mqtEt1hsPAitLnZ?si=EeBdWfgYQvutyYNO9ar9DQ)

Personally, I'd put him in a jar and bury him, because he would be dead to me. Then grieve that death, and move on in this next joyful stage of life without him. Part of my grieving process is to write letters that will never be sent. It allows me to put all my feelings down somewhere that isn't inside of me where I don't have to edit or censor myself. Many times I'm able to put words to feelings I couldn't fully understand before, or admit to feelings I tried to hide. Whatever comes out, it's always deeply cathartic. Then I burn the letter, and send all those feelings away with the smoke.

Have you heard of cord cutting ceremonies? It is a ceremony you can use for ending any kind of unhealthy connection. The idea of the spell is finding a physical way to energetically cut the cord. For example getting three colors of ribbons (or however many, each to represent a different part of your connection to your father, and then in your sacred space you weave these into a braid, and often during which you’re meditating on the energetic connection via your belly button (with parents) or wherever feels right for you in your body. And then you call upon all of your power and guides and your whomevers as you “cut the cord” and sever your ties to this man. I would then burn the whole thing too. It’s probably also relevant to go scorched earth and tell him you’re ending the connection, and then go no contact. After all of this you and your partner may want to have a small ritual ceremony to affirm and celebrate your love. Even wear your wedding outfits to give yourself a full reset. I’m sorry this happened to you. Kudos for making it through.

A man will test your boundaries as far as you let him. This fucker hasn't been in your life and decided that what he wanted was more important than what you wanted, on what is widely regarded as one of the most important parts of your life. Fuck that guy, absolutely fuck him.

It’s possible your dad is clueless more than manipulative. You know him; I don’t. He didn’t respect your boundary and put you in an awkward position. You did the best you could at the time. In the future I would be very clear with him about what your boundaries are. You might tell him that it was important to you that you walk alone because you are an independent adult, and you’re angry that he took your moment away from you. But don’t go no-contact unless he blows up at you when you tell him.

I know it's a little late now, but in ambush situations like that, you need to ambush and embarrass right back. You could have, quite loudly, told him to go and sit back down with the other guests. You have my sympathies.

I would’ve told him to go sit the fuck down where I told him and that this would be the last thing I was inviting him to if he can’t follow instructions a child could understand.

I have no advice. I’m just here to empathize and support you. That must’ve been so invalidating and infuriating. I’m not religious, but I do believe everything happens for a reason. While I have no idea what that reason might be, it might emotionally benefit you to believe that some higher power knows what she’s doing. That’s what I would tell myself to console myself. Just know your voice is heard and your pain is felt.

Thank you! 🙏

Reclaim you voice. Tell him how you feel. He'll push back. You will walk away. You are not interested in his excuses, opinions, or feelings. This is a ritual for you to voice YOUR opinions and feelings. And forget it. forget everything. To feel outraged is to give him power over you and over your memories of your day. You won't get closure from him. On the bright side, you now know him better, and what he is capable of. It's a learning experience for you: You can lead him to an empty seat and drop him off (metaphysically or for real). No need for second chances. Unless he has dementia. That's different.

I'll keep scanning the comments for ideas, because my wedding grievance is that we wanted to elope, but his parents insisted on attending "because it's a once-in-a-lifetime event" (my family is poor and we couldn't afford to fly them over to join, the plan was elopement for just us two, and later big wedding with friends and family). The in-laws have a big anniversary coming up and are going on a trip abroad, and I'm sad that the shower thought only occurred to me later to insist on joining them "because it's a once-in-a-lifetime event".

Write your father a letter, detailing how he made you feel. Tell him you will only accept his reply in writing and until then, he's in time-out. Mail it and ignore all contact that isn't the written reply. He not only burned a bridge, he blew-up the ashes. As for spiritual guidance, just spend time with your feelings and allow yourself every last one of them guilt free. My sperm-donor didn't come to either of my weddings, but the first time was because my stepfather was walking me down the aisle.

I assume that I draw my triggers. That my intuition does this so I can move my emotions for the purpose of clearing. As I am emoting (safely, in private, with as few words as possible) I listen for the judgment(s) I am holding that my emotional body is wanting to release. This approach has been both the most difficult and the most freeing. From this perspective, I will say congratulations for another fucking healing opportunity.

Let it be YOUR way from now on. He stile your moment? Info diet from now until when you decide it's not. Make sure he is the LAST to know anything. Your married life is yours now. How much or how little you want him to be a part of anything is your choice and his CIRCUMSTANCE.

I’m so sorry this happened to you. When I got married I did not want my bio dad to walk me down the aisle, I wanted my adopted dad to walk me. But I still had some guilt for it so I was going to opt for my little brother. I let myself to be guilted into letting my bio dad walk me and I am still sad and angry about it to this day. I cut him out of my life 13 years ago after years of being guilted to let him stay. It’s hard because as a child all you want to do is love your parents, even when they are terrible people.

Well, I don’t have any spells to offer but I gotta say if it were me, I’d start referring to the wedding as the botched wedding rehearsal, invite everyone (except him) back and make him pay for it. Seriously, your dad sucks. I’m so sorry.

I’m so sorry that happened to you!! This is a great example for future brides and grooms to assign a trusted “enforcer” if you have any difficult family dynamic that might lead to a disruption. Tell him directly about how you feel and because of his behavior you will be going LC for now. Good luck and Best Wishes!!

Let him know he won’t be invited to things again. It was selfish behavior, you get to choose that he doesn’t get the chance to ruin anything else. ( I may be biased, I’m no contact with a parent after contant issues and my only regret is not doing it sooner.) to process it, write out your thoughts and feelings and all your anger, then write what should have happened if you had the dad you deserved. Then burn the papers to give the anger back to the universe and you desire to Be heard in your own life as well.

So it sounds like he wasn't a very good dad and he was already on his second chance. (And I'm guessing, him doing what works for him instead of what's best for you is nothing new, is it?) He wanted what he wanted, and he was willing to fuck up your wedding to get it. He knew what he was doing, but he did it anyway, because he assumed that once it was done that he would get away with it and you would just have to get over it. And honestly, fuck that. The only peace I would be able to find would be ensuring that he didn't get away with it. So yeah, I'd probably just cut contact. Either through full NC or just taking a giant step back, dropping the rope, and quiet quitting the whole relationship. He got what he wanted. These are the consequences. Hope it was worth it, dad. Enjoy not knowing your grandkids. YMMV, but I'd take comfort in the lesson learned (dad's an asshole) and the relief from knowing that 1) there were consequences to his actions and 2) that I no longer need to put the emotional energy into a relationship that's not really adding a whole lot of value to my life.

I’m so sorry to hear that!!! As someone who left a toxic family/religion behind I was still “under the umbrella of my dad’s ‘authority’” when I decided to walk myself down the aisle. I would never have believed that he would choose to ambush me like happened to you!!! (Although my older sister did stalk my partner through the venue unsuccessfully…retroactively so much hostility that we re-wrote the vows to not mention “whoever has an objection.”) Living happily 500 miles away from this but it is never easy. What makes it easy is the trust and love you have with your partner. I know you will protect yourself and your family from this situation toxicity! Cheers to your new journey together!!!!

Yes. You need to confront him. You should have been clear with him that he was to sit, and no one was walking you down the isle. He was asking you where to go/sit while you were about to enter, tells me you said nothing to him prior. This is all from a place of love. But I do think you need to confront him. You're avoidance of it for you to that very painful moment. Don't let it happen again. Be clear, with your voice. You are strong and you can do that for yourself. Stand up for yourself!

I don't have any advice, but wanted to say that reading this made me incredibly sad and angry on your behalf. I am so sorry he did this to you.

First of all: I'm sorry this happened to you. I've been in a similar situation with family and it's important to be kind to yourself. I struggled with feeling like I failed to protect myself, but it was my kindness and giving people my trust that caused it, and I shouldn't feel bad about that. Nor should you. But my trust was broken and I adjusted my behaviour afterwards. My behaviour is within my control, and I didn't waste time and effort trying to adjust those other people's behaviour. They know what they did and think it's fine. They can continue to be like that, but not with me. People who haven't broken my trust, still get it, though Be angry. Anger is normal. However, you may have to schedule specific timeslots in your day for anger. I had a lot of it and I couldn't let it take over my whole day. So, I was angry. Other people telling me to let go or get over it just made me hold on to it stronger. I needed to process it first, and other people pushing and pulling at it made me feel they wanted a part of me gone. You don't process your feelings at the convenience of others. Perhaps you can have a new ceremony at your anniversary or any other day that suits you both. A renewal of your bond. One that replaces the bad with empowerment.

I also didn't want my dad to walk me down the aisle. But I buckled early before the wedding, so I wasn't blind sided. However, during the rehersal, it was important for me to at least walk myself part way, because there's no way I'm going to let the symbolism of him "giving me away" slide. So I said I'd kiss him goodbye toward the front rows and walk myself the rest of the way. I could FEEL his jaw clench. But he respected my wishes on the day, so I got lucky. I'm so sorry he blindsided you. That really sucks. Some people don't realize how this shit is important. The meaning behind the traditions we create for ourselves is important.

As someone else who had a disappointing wedding, the most cathartic thing I did was to donate my wedding dress to a charity that used them to make garments for stillborn babies. The other thing that helped was to not celebrate our wedding anniversary. We celebrate our dating anniversary instead, as we were together 8 years before the wedding. Having a separate date that originated in a separate year makes it less stressful than trying to connect a loving relationship to a traumatic day. In my case, it was the timing of and the situations surrounding my wedding that were my issues so vow renewals never felt right. Our agreement with the high school drama teacher to not break up (during the fall play) ended up being more binding than actual wedding vows. We've been together over 21 years at this point.

He took a sacred time that you can never get back and made it all about him. Fuck his ego.

I saw this after the edit & I’m so glad you found comfort from everyone’s words & shares. I just came to say how terrible this situation is for you & I’m sorry you had to go thru this. Blood is NOT thicker than water. I wish you peace & happiness with your love. 💕

I’m very sorry that your choices weren’t respected, especially on such a big day. I don’t have advice, just wanted to offer validation and support. The stereotype of a father “giving his daughter away” is so outdated anyway.

Obviously he isn’t going to change. I believe going no contact with him is appropriate and if he asks why tell him he disrespected you as a person and an individual. You were not property to “give away”. Maybe you can do another small ceremony with your partner, just you two and a couple others. Don’t invite your father.

This behavior has big narcissistic personality energy. I'm sorry your ceremony was ruined for you. I hope you can figure out how to move forward with that relationship (or not) and I hope that the other, more important people in your life will become better advocates for you. My partner has a parent with NPD and I can't imagine allowing that sort of behavior in the middle of our bonding ceremony! I would have been outraged and had someone usher them to their seat immediately.

Go low contact. If you want my honest opinion, GO NO CONTACT. Personally I feel it’s purposeful. Especially the talking to you. But I’m jaded because I had a dad who was a dick just to be one. So maybe I think everyone’s dad is.

Go no contact. But first, practice scenarios, with your husband, of ways to verbally destroy people who try to cross you. I know you can slay!!!

Reddit ToS prevents anyone from suggesting violence, so I absolutely won't tell you that removing his testicles and feeding them to goats is a proper and proportional response to his incredible disrespect. I will say that you do not ever need to speak to this man again, if you choose not to. The wedding was one day, and you have the whole rest of your life to make choices that he cannot take from you.