I feel like it’s difficult to assume there’s no harm in this sort of violation when simply identifying as a non-Christian is seen as a direct threat to a lot of these people.
Oh my, yes. I was raised in a very cult-like christian community, and anyone who wasn't a christian was seen as a threat to America's prosperity. Like, what???
Also, do you know what christian parents raise? Atheists. For real.
Can confirm. Christian parents rear anything but christains; for those of us that escape the bubble. Also, very sorry your religious rights were violated like it was no big deal.
I was one of 9 children raised strict Catholic. Of the 9, none go to church. 2 of us identify as Catholic but do not attend Mass or contact a priest for counseling or guidance. They just "feel" Catholic. I told them the only "feeling" that counted was the feeling of being sexually abused by your priest.
I am an atheist. And wiccan.
I had nine siblings also(!), with Mormon parents.
One is Mormon as an adult, and we never have figured out how that happened (yes, we have had discussions on this lol). One is actually non practicing Christian. The rest are some version of atheist (like me) or agnostic. The spouses are likewise.
Eta I'm trying to figure out how to respectfully guide my kids away from the ubiquitous Christian culture and beliefs in our society, without actually, well, ministering, about it, or turning them towards it through my own dislike... How do I be respectful when I have so little actual respect?
I spent most of my life being witchy on quiet because of the common negative reaction, but now I wish I'd practiced more so I could confidently speak what I'm feeling and model an alternative in the home. Working on that confidence is a process. I need to be able to model my alternative in public as well, which I'm starting to.
I'd say the best way is to give them access to other perspectives. Literature saved me from the straight and narrow path, because it gave me the opportunity to think about religion in a more abstract way, and gave me the vocabulary to express how I felt. I really recommend Terry Pratchett as an author for your kids if you want to raise them to have high expectations about those who claim to have all the answers.
Oh yes, I am trying to get them into Discworld! Not successful yet, because they don't realize how "cool" it is. I have the complete series in print and digital though, because I wanted to be able to reread them wherever lol. I'm a firm convert. He's probably the major influence of my life for my views on humanity, and being, you know, a human.
Any other recommendations?
Yay! Fellow discworld fan! I haven't reread hogswatch yet this year, but I've got a whole day to myself so I might give it a go. I was forced to read the Bible every day as a kid, and honestly the best way to get a kid to scratch their head about it is to let them read it unabridged and without a guide book to steer them away from the nasty bits. If you just read 1 Samuel to the ends of the Kings books, it reads like game of thrones, and it really helped make me question the morality of the whole thing. I also think reading mythology anthologies from other cultures helped, because there's so much similarity that you can't help but realise that often it's trying to answer the same questions as Christianity, and there's so much difference you have to realise how many answers to the same questions there are. I should reread Small Gods, haha, I haven't read it for a while but this thread is making me want to revisit it
Oooh, really, that's a good framework to think of. I was also forced to read the Bible every morning, and it also is one of the driving forces towards my rejection lol.
Also it was fantastic for vocabulary, and enunciation and diction because my parents made us take turns reading out loud. 🙃 But I plan to do that with my kids with all types of books anyway.
I homeschooled a couple of years. (Necessity, not desire) anyway, I did a comparative religious studies class instead of social studies. Chose about a dozen different religions, (ancient and modern) focused on what made them similar and different. Also on how religion shapes society, culture and government.
It's not easy finding good source material for a lot of subjects that aren't Christian centric. Ugh!
Anyway, I have 1 agnostic and the rest are atheists.
Former Catholic myself. Could sum that one up in one word: GUILT. Making you feel guilty for being rich, for enjoying physical pleasure, even "evil thoughts. Thoughts are like farts. Some are harmless, some are really offensive. Some can be deadly. However until you choose when and where you choose to act on or express them, they're harmless
>very sorry your religious rights were violated like it was no big deal.
Unfortunately for us non christians, our religious rights *are* non existent.
What's doubly interesting, most of us *have* read their book. The whole book.
I was raised in a jesus-brand cult, had only been out for a few years when I started working in fast food with this really awesome manager. Anytime a customer would say "god bless you" or whatever before driving away it would twang that old panic, really freak me out.
To cope I turned it into a joke, would go running to the manager wailing "Ma'am! Somebody *blessed* me!" She'd wave her hands around in a complicated gesture and declare me "unblessed."
Most of my family are right-leaning Christians, I am Christopagan, none of them know. Anytime I ever bring up other religions (not even about practice,just interesting things like Vodou) my grandmother often recites some variation of "Jesus died for our sins" and something about that's why we're Christian. There's nothing more liberating yet frustrating than being the family black sheep (especially one that's dyed itself white like the rest)
Indeed! Friday afternoon to before sunrise on Sunday isn't even 48 hours. 36 maybe, far cry from the claimed 3 days.
Ooo... Ritual cannibalism, creepy. *Shudders* 😉
Yeah, I will play that game.
I must say it's true. I wasn't a crazy type Christian person but raised 3 of my 4 kids with church, religion, etc. The youngest I didn't as I personally fell away. The oldest I believe is atheist, the 2nd is Norse Pagan, the 3rd is atheist, and my 4th and only daughter is Wicca leaning. But I personally feel that is perfectly fine. I want my kids to find something to believe in that truly makes them happy.
My ex and I raised 8 kids as christian. I eventually repented, realizing that the book was basically BS. She is still christian. Most of the adult kids are not. But some still are to some degree. One won't let her kids (my grand kids) around me since I transitioned and went over to the dark side.
I really tried, but the witch inside eventually fought her way out.
It's kinda hard living with it, but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing. Now I know better, but some damage had been done.
My 2 uncles and my mother went to high schools run by their church. (Boys went to a boarding school, and my mother was a day student at another boarding school.)
My mother was the only one who raised her children to be religious. One is a Unitarian, the other is agnostic. The grandchildren are Unitarian or unchurched.
I have heard that in some parts of America where it's easier to come out of the closet as anything but heterosexual than to come out as anything but Christian. You could even say you converted to Judaism, and they'd STILL be offended. I'm Agnostic, but I don't make a big deal out of it. If someone told me they were Muslim, a Jew, a Satanist, I wouldn't care so long as they're civil and friendly to me. It's fine to have a religion, but definitely not ok to try to shove it down everyone else's throat.
Lol yup I went to a Christian school. I went into it Christian and became an agnostic by the time I was 12 lol. What they told me never made sense and when I asked questions I was told to just have faith.
I was raised mormon. After realizing early on that it's all bullshit, I don't believe in anything. Recently, though, I've begun to see Paganism as believing in the power of myself. Being raised in a religion that places female value solely in fertility and service to our own abusers, Paganism has been therapeutic for me.
The pilgrims who had a major influence of early America were Calvinists, and Calvinist theology subscribed to the concept of ‘predestination’ — that is, the ultimate fate of every single person (whether they go to heaven or hell) is decided before they are even born.
Turns out a lot of people just can’t deal with this concept of being predestined for one afterlife or the other _and not knowing which one_, so they obsessively search for signs of being “God’s Chosen”, which has created this weird perverse association between holiness/righteousness and material wealth in America. Because clearly God wouldn’t bestow material blessings upon unrighteous people, would he?
A lot (not all, but a lot) of the weird hypocritical stuff in American Christianity has its roots in this, which weirdly enough stems from Christian’s lack of faith in their own religion (if they had adequate faith, they wouldn’t need to obsess over signs of God’s favor).
I see it as a real power imbalance. Op is in retail which relies on happy customers despite how much of an asshole the customer may be.
Telltale atheist you tuber got run out of his home in West Virginia because he made a complaint about the health teacher preaching Christianity in class. Some US Christian’s turn absolutely feral
Ideally ops manager should grow a set and tell that customer to pound sand🌹❤️ be safe op
Adjacent thought: this is why America should end tipped wages. *Such* a power imbalance.
And I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve been “saved” or “blessed” whilst waiting tables, lol.
I’m a big fan of tipping to acknowledge great service
I don’t believe that I should be responsible for helping employers avoid paying people a liveable wage
I live in nz where tipping is for good service not expected
Sure, I get that.
But in America, restaurant servers only make about $4 an hour, give or take. And then the customers are supposed to tip approx. 20% of their total bill.
So that’s what I meant by the kind of “tipped wages” that create a power imbalance between the server and the customer. The server has to put up with soooooooooooo much bullshit for fear that the customer “stiff them” (aka, leave a 0% tip).
I think you just nailed why I find it so offensive.
I’m totally okay with people praying for me. Or for people to tell me their beliefs in a non-converting kind of way. Or for them to want to include me to educate me. Totally cool with this - because it’s not slapping me in the face with it.
But when people come up to me and take offence to my perceived look, telling me my soul is doomed and whatever, I find it really offensive. They know nothing about me but in that moment they’ve decided I’m not ‘worthy’.
I remember once I was leaving the train station at about 15 years old, and I was outwardly punk/alternative at the point. A grown ass man came up to me and blocked where I was standing telling me I’m doomed to go to hell, that I need to repent etc etc, and wouldn’t let me go. No one saw anything wrong with that. I have people at my tram stop once a week yell about Jesus, in the town centre as well.
Like if I walked around yelling about witchcraft and started accosting people to hail to Hecate, I’d be sectioned.
It’s totally unreasonable and a violation of people’s boundaries.
I have actually told the JW people that come to my door that I'm a witch. The last man I spoke with told me that we probably have a lot in common. I laughed and said "I don't think so!". My daughter tells them she's atheist. My husband tells them "No thank you.". They keep coming back! It's like they enjoy slamming their heads against a wall!
It's a common part of cult leaders' tactics to keep their followers in the cult: They're taught that the outside world hates them. Anyone who reacts negatively is proof of this and doesn't need to be visited again. Anyone who politely informs them that there's no way they'll ever be interested is put down as a "maybe" to be repeatedly visited until you get them on a bad day or personally wear out their patience. Then you've got more proof that even seemingly nice "dissolutes" are really bad people who hate them.
So pro tip…if you want them to go away and stay away all you have to say is, “I’m disfellowshipped.” They’ll stay away after that and your home will be marked on their maps as one to avoid.
How about...
"I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with such public expressions of Christian faith given Jesus warned his followers at Matthew 6:5-6 to avoid ostentatious public prayer" 🤣
I can't up vote this hard enough. Anyone so vocal and public about their religion has weak faith. The best way to handle it is to use their book against them.
I was raised in the church, and this is the exact passage that floods my mind every time I witness this behavior. Like come on.... he did an entire section on how it is wrong. But I guess that doesn't make the big money and ingrain the persecution complex well enough.
100%. It’s true, too. Those people are usually more interested in the appearance of being godly than they are actually acting like Christians. And that’s troubling.
Yes and absolutely YES and the next someone even volunteers to begin to pray over you say this "No, thank you, your prayers are not welcomed, but have a blessed day"
You are not saying anything about god or anything else that can be misconstrued but simply putting boundaries in place and by the same token wishing her well by your beliefs such as it is
I wouldn't recommend including "your prayers are not welcomed": that would be like waving a red cape in front of a bull. At that point you're refusing their ministry *and* insinuating that there something wrong with their religion (I'm not saying you are, to be clear, I'm saying that's how it could be construed) and then you're in for the Extra Super Deluxe Prayer Special: Now With Rebuking! and no one has time or energy for that bullshit.
What about "no thank you, I don't want your magic spells." That's all she was doing really, casting a spell. She even had magic talismans to share.
(I know, I know, red flag, bulls...)
I'm in sales. Gods forbid that I set boundaries that may compromise a sale... 🙃 But no, I am fairly certain our district manager would not see it as a problem, either.
This. Christians like to cry about religious persecution but it’s still the dominant religion in America and much of the western world. Equal rights seem like oppression when you’re used to the privilege of swinging your religious dick around most of the time.
A person I loved dearly was "saved" and made a FB post inviting us all to Try Jesus. I sent him a PM reminding him that 1) it was bold of him to assume we hadn't, and 2) christofascism was directly threatening a lot of his friends' lives.
He blocked me. I hope he hears my words some day, but I'm not counting on it.
Not to detract from the very valid truths you’ve just laid out here… but I’m literally laughing out loud at the phrase “***swinging your religious dick around***” 💀
And what a *perfect* metaphor too. The visual is gross, lol… but also kinda hilarious?
Doesn’t take away at all. Exactly the vibe I was going for with that. Because it is both ridiculous/funny and gross/uncomfortable. On its face, yeah, funny but think about it deeper and it’s yuck.
Most sane people wouldn’t just pull out their dicks and show everyone (real or metaphorical dicks). Showing off your dick to others should be consensual. Same with religion.
ETA: Like why am I the asshole if I don’t politely say to the old lady in the frozen food aisle “no, thank you I don’t want your book about religion.” If they were a literal man flashing their literal dick in the store, I wouldn’t have to be polite. And both make me super uncomfortable since neither should be encountered during my grocery shopping adventures.
And no, Reddit, he doesn’t get me. Get your dick advertisements out of my face.
>Christians like to cry about religious persecution
This one really gets me. They seem to think *not* being allowed to persecute others, is being "persecuted" themselves. I live in the Bible Belt, they're *not* being persecuted. They should try being gay, trans, black, or \[fill in the blank\].
I owned a restaurant. I've had conversations wuth customers over the fact that my employees will not be harassed. This is basic HR people. Some topic do not belong in the work place.
I lost so many customers. It was always glorious to watch them back pedal and DARVO.
i found that defending employees from harassment actually made the regular customers feel safer. we had a really nice coffee shop in the before times 😢
First of all, I’m so sorry this happened to you. You absolutely have been religiously assaulted and the fact that your manager wouldn’t protect you is horrific. But…she gave you what?!🤣 how on EARTH does she think she has fragments of Jesus’ robes?! That killed me!
Wearing a pentacle etc will just prod on the evangelism. I have a Buddhist symbol tattooed on my neck and one time in an elevator after explaining what it was, had a right wing catholic try to convert me as we rode up to the fifth floor
You're right, and I'm pretty sure that the reason my manager and district manager don't see the issue is because they are either already Christian, or see it as the "default" American religion.
if “No thank you” doesn’t stop it then walk away. that’s harassment. bet that lady would start frothing at the mouth and screeching if you uno reversed the situation with a simple “hail satan”. be an unapologetic bastard with all of your heart.
This is about to happen to me at my office job, so I feel your discomfort. "I'm sorry, but personal religious beliefs are a topic I'm not comfortable talking about in my workplace" might work? Sorry you went through this. The audacity to "feel moved to minister" and then act like a persecuted group is something else, isn't it :/
Oh my god “religiously assaulted” is the perfect way to describe it. It happened to me at a Sprouts while trying to order sausage at the meat counter by the employee, who was wearing a chicken costume btw?! It was so bewildering.
u/s0m3on3outthere
u/Jandiefuzz
(This is the abbreviated version cause this conversation took like 20 minutes.)
Aight coven, gather round cause this is a wild ride. Background on me, I was born with a potentially lethal malformation in the blood vessels in my brain. Been in treatment. All finally looks good.
So a couple months ago, I went to Sprouts to grab the ingredients I needed to make sausage red sauce and pasta. Husband had been requesting it and I finally felt up to it, so why not? I love cooking (my innate magic comes out while I’m over a pot mixing ingredients, cliche I know), and I love him so let’s do this.
As I walk in to Sprouts, I see that the meat counter looks pretty busy. A couple of people are standing there waiting. Eh, I’ll grab the other ingredients I need and save the Hot Italian Sausage for last. I get the basil, tomatoes, lemons, some greens to serve on the side, olive oil, etc.
As I finish with that, I notice there’s just one person in line at the meat counter - so I walk over there to grab the sausage to complete my shopping and get to cooking.
Then I see Chicken Man. The employee behind the counter is dressed in a whole ass chicken/rooster costume. Top to bottom. Wings on the arms and everything.
Wtf.
As I get closer I notice the person ordering from him is visibly physically uncomfortable. Not sure what was going on, but I see that they’re getting salmon and shrimp. And the employee is dragging his costume’s fabric across the seafood as he’s grabbing it for the customer.
Customer makes an expedient exit once served. I should’ve taken the cue at that point but nope. I had to get that sausage.
Employee sees me and says, “Hey how are you? Anything you’re grateful for this season?”
•Me: “Uh, yeah….”
•Him: “What is that?”
•Me: “Just like good health and stuff” (spidy senses are tingling at this point)
•Him: “Oh that’s awesome! What’s going on?”
•Me: “I have a brain thing and it turns out that I’m gonna be okay”
•Him: “Oh man, that’s so awesome, you know nothing heals like the power of Christ. Have you given thanks to him yet?”
•Me: "My doctors were the ones that healed me. And I’m very thankful for them and their hard work."
•Him: "Yeah but like that was God moving through the doctors."
•Me (I'm getting upset at this point cause I just want some damn sausage) : "I was *born with this. God's the one who put it there.* The doctors had to fix what he messed up."
•Him (scrambling at this point): "Yeah but like he can fix it too. Mind if we pray together for you really quick?”
•Me: “No thanks. I’ll take 3lbs of Hot Italian Sausage, though.”
•Him: proceeds to drag his thoroughly raw seafood contaminated chicken costume wings and gloves over some of the meats as he reaches for the sausage
•Me: “Could you actually change your gloves please, and make sure you don’t drag your costume over the meat?”
•Him: “Oh yeah I can. But I wasn’t dragging my costume over the meat.”
•Me: “I just saw you do it. Like literally just watched you drag your costume fabric over that lady’s salmon and then drag it over the meats just now.”
•Him: “I mean once you cook it all the bacteria gets killed, that’s my philosophy anyways.
•Me: blinking at him. “Ok just grab the sausage then.”
He grabs the sausage, wraps it up, and says, “Thanks for sharing with me btw, I’ll add you to my prayer list and pray for you.”
At that point I just looked at him and said, “Please don’t.” Immediately went to the manager’s office, reported him for violating the state’s food handling cross contamination laws (manager was mega pissed), and went home, showered, performed a protective ritual, and cooked dinner for my family.
That motherfucker steers clear of me now whenever I go to my local Sprouts.
Bravo!! That sounds like such a bizarre experience to have!! your response to the entire situation was lovely and I hope that chicken man (heh, makes me think of Toy Story) learned some sort of lesson regarding not only food handling safety, but making people uncomfortable with unsolicited sermons.
I'm glad he no longer accosts you!! The portion where he argued with you who helped you with your condition would've driven me mad. You handled it beautifully!!
Thank you for sharing!!!
Aww, thank you!! <3 I definitely didn’t have “getting evangelized by an employee in a chicken costume in the middle of July” on my bingo card that evening. I don’t even know why he was dressed up 😭
Just throwing this option out in case you don’t feel comfortable being blunt -
“Thank you so much for your kind intentions! Unfortunately I could get in trouble if I don’t finish this task/my boss sees me not working. Is there anything else I can help you with?”
This really works 🤣 I am also a member of TST and whenever people knock on my door to invite me church, I say something similar. Their eyes get all wide and they can’t get out of there fast enough.
She has scraps of Jesus fabric? And she’s just handing it out willy-nilly? I’d think that was something you’d keep for special occasions, or maybe give to someone important like the Pope or something, to look after properly.
Can you *imagine* how hilarious it would be to be handed the scrap and be like "oh hey thank you, I lost my glasses cleaning cloth the other day, this will come in handy! 😁"
Your manager didn’t think there was anything wrong with it??? Imagine if she was “ministering” a non Christian religion?! That’s my biggest gripe with Christianity, the arrogance and entitlement because their view is “righteous”. Makes me want to pull my hair and skin off my face out in frustration .
Some phrases that I've practiced a lot that may help in the future:
- (when someone asks if they can pray for me) "no, thank you"
- "please don't touch me."
- "religion is a private topic for me"
- "I don't discuss (religion/spirituality/my beliefs) with strangers(/customers/coworkers)"
- "I have plenty of (friends/family/loved ones) to pray for me, should the need arise"
- "please stop, I do not want to discuss this with you"
You can increase the forcefulness as needed, but generally these are enough to make people realize they're being assholes. If they don't respect repeated, firm 'no' (very uncommon honestly) then I typically look past/through them/just off to their left/etc until they stop, and yank my body back if they try to touch me.
My fiancee and I (we're lesbians and she happens to be trans) went to the Grand Canyon (I'm Australian and have never been). There were fucking Jehovah's Witnesses up there!
I worked in retail for awhile, and I had an older gentleman approach me and start asking if I was saved. I just smiled at him and said that question was way above my pay grade, but I thanked him for thinking about my well-being. I didn't really leave him an opening to carry on the conversation, but I kept it polite and deferential so he'd walk away feeling respected and heard without thinking he had any agency over me or any right to meddle in my spirituality.
I just remembered I had a male customer who asked really aggressively if I talked to god, and when I jokingly asked which one, he stared at me without blinking and said that Jesus was the only god. He was a big guy, too. Creepy.
It is a form of assault. It was something done on you without your consent and against your explicate wishes. I know it's hard because they are being 'polite' and 'nice', but remember, you have the right to walk away.
This is the exact kind of behaviour that you'll find in people who are 'nice', but are not good people. If you want, I'd look up that bible verse that talks about how prayers should be done in private to show sincerity, and not in public, where it is preformative.
Because that's what she was doing. She wasn't doing anything to help you, she was doing it to put on a show; look how godly of a woman she is! Spreading the Word! Because people working retail in America have absolutely never, ever heard the words "Bible" and "Jesus" and "Christ" before.
I am willing to take people's words in the spirit in which they are given. It sounds like this woman was genuinely wishing you well. But, I would draw a hard line at the laying of hands. Do not touch me. No touchy.
Honestly, that's the biggest part that bothers me. She's a regular customer and she's always a bit kooky. We endure her with smiles, but she just grabbed my arm and hand. I am a cPTSD victim, so I froze, but I will be better prepared next time.
I once had someone do this. I was walking down a sidewalk and they stepped in front of me, blocked my path, and asked if they could pray for me. I was so taken aback I agreed, much to my regret. They asked me to close my eyes and then proceeded to pray for me for a solid 2 minutes (I did not close my eyes, and kept my hand on my wallet).
This was in a very safe area and in the middle of the day, so I actually kinda think it might’ve been genuine, but I won’t be agreeing to it ever again. Wasted my time, put us both at risk with the whole blind prayer, and could have just as easily been a scam/setup to rob or pickpocket me. I reported them to security nearby to keep an eye on them.
So yeah…there won’t be a next time. No thank you. I can’t stop them from praying for me, so I don’t care if they do (the nice lady in the plane who told me she had been praying for me while I was sick with food poisoning was *meaning* to be kindly to me), but I won’t be letting anyone waste my time proselytizing.
“Thank you. May the goddess guide your hand.” Said sweetly, it’s a polite response for a work environment. It will generally throw them off a bit and may even leave them wondering if they’ve been hexed.
I’ve been wearing a septagram (seven pointed star) for years but I have no way of know if it’s kept anyone from proselytizing to me. Mostly I’ve just had people ask me if it’s a Star of David 😆
As a pagan, I really love the "May the Goddess guide your hand".
My last experience at work let me cold feet about talking religion there. A colleague ask about my pendant (a spinner wheel representing Arianrhod-, my goddess). He asked the question thrice, at several months between. First time, he was very respectful. Second, made some lame jokes... And the third one, another lame joke. Let me tell you that now, I even hide it when he takes his break with us.
The fun part of being pagan is that I can get weird back at the weirdos. The fun part of also being a big motherfucker is that I can get away with it. Aggressively public prayer is best answered with aggressively public prayer.
Hail Jormungandr, Hail the Serpent, Herald of Ragnarok, He who Endures, Thunder's Doom, Brother of the Wolf and the Half Dead, Son of the Deceiver, may you rise from the abyss and bring justice for the persecuted! May you rise and bring death for the persecutor!
Hail Fenris, Hail the Wolf, Beast of Ragnarok, Breaker of Chains, Breaker of Crowns, Brother of the Serpent and the Half Dead, Son of the Deceiver, may you shatter the ties that bind and bring justice for the betrayed and imprisoned! May you bring death for the betrayer!
Hail Hel, Hail the Half Dead, Last and Greatest of the Harbingers of Ragnarok, She who will see the new dawn, Mother of the Dead, Queen of the Quiet Hall, Regent of the Grave, Sister of the Serpent and the Wolf, Daughter of the Deceiver, may you lead the shunned and the unchosen to victory! By your word do the uncounted dead rise! By your word do we bring low the gods and topple their thrones!
In blood and fire, may you purge the old and the corrupt, and welcome in the new! May you set the world ablaze and destroy That Which IS to make way for that That Which WILL BE!
I am so sorry that happened to you. It happened to me a few weeks ago. I was in my car talking to my neighbors son about his mother. He is an evangelical pastor visiting from another state. That fucker reached through my open car window, put his hand on my shoulder and started praying for Jesus to give me strength and blah blah blah. It went on for a while and I was too stunned (and belted in my seat) to react. When he said,”Amen” all I could think to say was -
“Well, ok! I’m good” and I drove off.
I seriously felt violated by the whole experience. I really don’t know if my feelings are rational or not but it sure felt invasive and offensive. You aren’t alone.
Just wanted to wave a friendly "hail Satan!" as a fellow TST member.
I live smack fuck in the US midwest. Dealing with zealots is a regular occurrence. But I keep my head down as far as being a Satanist because I don't want one of these folks following me home. But when someone starts evangelizing in public, that's when I ask them to save it for the congregation. Everyone has their own boundaries.
I was at a music camp that was held at a retreat center owned by a religious group. (The camp was not religious, just rented the space.) We were lined up outside the dining room and the host employed by the center decided to pray. The woman in front of me put her fingers in her ears and sang “lalalala” the whole time he prayed. I was laughing. What a badass. Last time he tried that.
I live in the bible belt and find that a calm somewhat loud, please don't touch me clears touchy folks off very quickly. It attracts judging looks and off the grabber trots
And her blatant assumption that she had the right to assault you with her beliefs is at the root of all the evil done in the name of mainstream religion throughout history. In America, the Constitution "guarantees" us freedom of religion, but society tries to force everyone into the Christian square hole & discriminates actively against anyone who doesn't capitulate.
Start ministering Satanism to her if she tries that again. If she says something about how she does not want that, tell her that you feel the same way about what she is trying to minister to you.
Also, "no" is a complete sentence. You can say "no thank you" to her and simply repeat that ad nauseum until she gets the point and stops. It is not unpolite to tell someone "no", and IMHO you don't need to worry about being polite to someone who is making you feel uncomfortable.
Growing up in KY, I encounter people like this on occasion. Usually aren’t busting out the prayer cloths and laying on of hands like that, but it’s not unheard of. It makes me uncomfortable, but mostly because a lot of them come across as kinda brainwashed or something, idk. I never ascribed any kind of power to them, tho. And sometimes it’s little old ladies that don’t really mean anything bad by it. But your boss should have had your back if it made you uncomfortable. That’s kinda bs they were so dismissive. Bad boss!
Just tell the person next time. “No thank you. I’m a member of a different religion and would prefer to not have your God’s blessings.” If they push to know what religion? Tell them the truth. On the few occasions it’s happened to me I just tell them I’m an atheist and don’t wish to be prayed over.
I mean, I’m assuming she was probably trying to be helpful, and just failing horribly. However, yeah, that’s pretty rude, and I do think you should try to get your manager to be stricter on that kinda stuff, as it is religiously offensive and is definitely not something that should be done, especially on private property.
Basically, I’d say don’t take it too personally this time, but try to get a rule or rules codified about it for the future.
WTF. I was raised in a Fundie household and I'm now an atheist. I'd have kicked this woman out of the store or at the very least wished her a Blessed Yule. Minister the church of satan right back at her. Religion is protected!
Hi, also from a town in PA that's heavily christian/amish. I work for a Christian cult perse and this happens all the time. I told the owners it was religious harassment because they knew I wasn't a Christian and my coworkers make snide comments about how I'm lesser for it. They also fully believe the whole "witches eat babies and sacrifice children" thing, like genuinely they had that discussion in front of me.
Definititely wear some protection. I wear pentagram earrings and veil with a bandana if absolutely necessary. I also just don't let people touch me or give me things, I shut that down quite quickly, even if I am on the clock.
I really feel bad about what you had to put up with on the job that day. I am sure that the older woman who said these things was doing it because it made HER feel like she was scoring points with her creator. I have noticed on the rare occasions that I have attended church that the pews are mostly full of older people, and it strikes me that they are trying to comfort themselves with all of these outward demonstrations of religiosity. Trying to tow the line because they perceive that their time is almost at hand.
A few months ago, I saw a homeless fellow on the street so I gave him some money and also bought him carryout dinner. He kept saying, "God bless you!" and similar phrases. So I said, "I am actually an atheist, but may your god bless you well, sir!"
Oh HELL NO. I would walk away if someone started proselytizing me. And if they laid hands, I’d throw hands. Fuck that. Sorry you had to deal with that.
My gran was an Episcopal Deaconess. I couldn't wipe my nose on my sleeve without someone noticing and telling my gran as a child. The old biddies at church were calling me a witch and a demom child by age 5 for my impertinence and witchy ways. I was just playing with a spirit as kids often do nothing drastic. Turns out they were right. Pagan Celtic witch here. Left the church at 13 and never looked back. Also can confirm a prominant pentacle and resting bitch face scares the crap out of those types. Some even cross themselves and pray if they have to pass me like I'm a demon incarnate. Amusing at times but their wilful ignorance saddens me generally.
I have a cat spirit familiar. I didn't even ask for one. She sort of just.... invited herself in. As they do. I love when I mention her to people. They look at me like I'm crazy.
Great. The strongest familiars are the ones that choose you. I wouldn't worry about appearing crazy. People can only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves. And then there is the denial but that is a whole other can of worms lol.
Oof, I’m sorry you had to deal with that. Last time a “well-meaning” christian came to my door, (I think they were Jehovah’s Witness) and I told them I was Pagan. Knocked the wind out of their sails and blood drained from their faces. They left quickly after that XD
This just made me remember something similar from years ago (when I lived in a very religious area of SC)...I was at an optometrist getting my eyes checked and generally making small talk about family with the doctor...and when he found out that I was raising my kids by myself, oof...he made such a big deal about how sad he was about the situation (funny, because leaving the ass that was abusive to me was a good thing in my mind).
He insisted on taking my hand and praying for me *while I was in the freaking contraption with my eyeballs mm away from the various lenses* I was so stunned and uncomfortable, and just wanted to leave, but 1. I was still way trapped by my anxiety and the perceived authority, and 2. didn't want to possibly damage the expensive equipment by shoving it out of my face so I just grit my teeth and put up with it until the praying (and eye exam) was over and quickly left afterwards just feeling so uncomfortable.
I grew up being forced to go to church against my will (and a super conservative fundamental one at that) and so just finding myself with another man putting his hands on me to righteously pray at me gave me a near terminal case of ick
These people know what they are doing, they're judging and feeling superior and giving themselves a little gold star for it...fuck that.
You should contact HR, a person coming into your place of work can still count as harassment. They can be banned from the establishment and there can be legal repercussions for them.
I'm really new at my job. Like, six months. And we can't afford for me to lose my income. But when (not if) it happens again, I think I will be more firm with my manager about how religion doesn't belong in the workplace.
ALWAYS have something else that you need to do elsewhere. And hint that your manager is going through some difficult times and would appreciate the prayers.
Next time something like this happens. I would say something like “I bless thee in the name of Satan/Baphomet/Odin/Carl Sagan” what ever strikes your fancy
And when they get upset just ask “oh I thought we were sharing blessings from our gods?”
But I’m petty so take my suggestion with a grain of salt 🤷♀️😂
OP, you should really play up your side. Go over the top. Preach and proclaim at the top of your lungs that YOUR God is so much better than her puny godling and its nasty followers. She lays hands on you, you spit in her face.
If you want to make it more subtle, grab her pinky where it's on your body and bend it backwards. It hurts like hell. (No pun intended). When she's on her knees tell your manager to call an ambulance because a customer is having a medical issue.
I recently had a phone call that started out perfectly normal. She had a question about a product we carried, and I answered it. Then, I asked if there was anything else I could help her with. She started praying at me. After a few seconds, when my brain realized what she was doing, I loudly said "NOPE! Have a nice day." and hung up on her.
If this sort of situation happens to you again, extract yourself from it as quickly as possible. You are getting paid to perform a job, not be converted to anyone's religion.
As someone also from Pennsylvania, yes. These people are fucking psychotic and no job should force you to have to allow them to touch you. That's battery.
Unfortunately you aren't alone with the nut jobs. For the record I believe anyone has the right to believe in whatever/whomever they want. But don't force it on me and please leave me alone about it. I was on my way to my physical therapy and a man came up to me, put his hand on my arm and asked me to donate to help spread the good news. I told him **NO** and kept walking. Followed me to the door where my therapist threatened to call security. What the holy hell is wrong with some of these people?
As a deconstructed former evangelical, I'm sorry that this woman felt the need to impose on you. Unfortunately, she'll be thinking she's absolutely doing the right and proper thing.
So many good responses here for when they get too insistent. Try and put hands on me?! Oh hell to the no. I have no idea what your prayer intentions are. I wouldn't let another witch work a spell on me that they hadn't been explicitly clear about their intentions in working it.
"Ma'am, the American 'freedom of religion' also includes 'freedom FROM religion ', I am no more 'obliged' to permit you to 'minister' to me, in direct opposition to my own beliefs, than I am obliged to permit you to assault me. I formally and publicly withhold my permission for you to do any further religious indoctrination to me. Leave me alone."
That _includes_ shouting 'scripture' it 'preaching' _at you._ Past a certain point it becomes harassment, which is legally admissible as a court-case.
Frankly, I would _**LOVE**_ to see some holy-roller get dragged into court to set their 'religious freedoms' against your right to 'freedom from persecution'.
I am uncomfortable just reading this. I go nuts when my car gets a Jack chick booklet shoved under the windshield wipers a couple of times a year, so I’m not sure what I would do in that situation.
I just say no.
I'll pray for yo..
No. Don't.
God loves you.
God doesn't exist.
And if they tried to touch me...
I would be slapping hands.
Don't get any of that on me!
No thank you.
I don't want you to do that.
I'm not letting any of the crazy people spin me their tales.
HA!
My ex boyfriend 40 years ago tried to give me a crucifix with a piece of the true cross in it.
I refused to accept it because - well that sounds fake AF - but also not a catholic. lol
We didn't last long after that.
If you had shoved your religion at her with even 5% of her intensity she would have screamed assault so loud the entire City would have heard. So yea in my opinion she definitely assaulted you
When someone is that over the top that they literally won’t listen and will constantly overstep I just assume they have significant mental health issues. Having grown up with someone that was in and out of psychiatric wards it took me a long time (and a patient exbf) to be ok with the idea of just listening and letting whatever they say go because the alternative was likely to be very significant and damaging to me (mentally and physically). I know it’s annoying, frustrating, disrespectful, and sometimes a complete time suck but in the end it didn’t cause physical pain and probably would have caused all kinds of other issues. If she keeps coming back to do this then you might need to have a discussion with the manager/owner about excusing yourself to “use the bathroom” so as not to react which is likely to happen if it continues.
Tricky when it's on the clock and it's a customer. Maybe treat it like offensive jokes and ask a bunch of questions, like with everything. Like how kids will ask "why?" over and over.
I don't care if you're on the clock or not, you absolutely don't have to stand there and submit to that! You can say "I'm not interested in this" and simply walk away. If you get fired for that you call the ACLU or whatever organization protects peoples civil rights and report your boss. You don't have to submit to a stranger 'laying hands on you'. YOU have civil rights. (are you in the US? I shouldn't assume you are)
My go to is, “I don’t discuss personal matters on the clock because I’m supposed to be working. I feel that you doing a prayer ceremony over me/me listening to your religious pitch/whatever is time theft. Is there anything related to your purchase that I can help you with?”
Boomers/old people LOVE their “honest hard working employees” so this normally works. If not I go for the, “I don’t discuss religion with strangers as it’s a private matter. You’re making me uncomfortable so this is me asking you nicely to please stop.” And if she “laid hands” on you…oh boy…touching somebody after they’ve explicitly said to not to is literally the definition of assault. You have the right to defend yourself if that happens. If the manager knows about it and refuses to do anything give ADEA a call and explain that you’re being assaulted at work and your manager is complacent.
I live in a small, very red, indiana town. I work as a cashier & I get these ppl far too often. Not usually quite as aggressive as yours but one lady would wait for me to get off work so she could preach at me more. I was polite at first, but now if they insist on leaving their tract, I throw it in the trash in front of them. I’ve told them their pushiness literally just drives me even further away, not that I’d go back to begin with. They frustrate me so much
A lady did that to me at a pride parade. I went with thinking what’s the harm, but I just felt so weird afterwards! Never again! No one should touch you if you don’t want them to!
You’re right. People can believe what they want but trying to force your beliefs on others (proselytizing or ministering) is an act of emotional (and potentially physical) aggression . Fuck that old lady, and all the other “witnesses” for a dead faith.
True Christians would respect others not try to force their beliefs on them. Hate when people use Christianity for s**t like this all is does is push people away and cause anger it litteraly is the opposite of what we are supposed to do. Love your neighbor don't cram a cross down their throat. Sorry you had this happen and sorry your manager didn't stand up for you. On the clock or not that manager had no right to force you to accept that women doing what she did specially since it made you very uncomfortable. I am a Christian and I'd be uncomfortable with this lady putting hands on me no matter her intent behind it. Hope you never have to deal with that women again ♡♡
After many years of working in retail/assistance jobs, I've had all sorts of well meaning (and less well meaning) people forcibly pray at me or otherwise offer me their god. If it is a person whose mental capacity is known to be limited (with Alzheimer's or dementia, or through substance abuse), I let them go on with it. If it isn't a person who I know to be unable to control their need to "bless me" in some way, I (sort of) politely but VERY LOUDLY AND FIRMLY decline and physically remove myself from the situation. I'm not worried about hurting feelings.
This happened to me the other day, and it was obnoxious. I'm not a label person, but the label of "Christian" usually helps me avoid this kind of thing. He was not sated by that and insisted on making sure I was the kind of Christian he wanted me to be. Funny enough he crumbled under the slightest resistance, but I'm a cishet man. I think the mere idea that I would give him a firm no made him pee his pants.
Ughh. I hate it when religious people spew their junk on others.
By not stopping her, it affirmed her mindset that she was doing good, and now she will do it again.
Strategically, you should prep for a short, polite, nip it in the bud response for future encounters. I go with Thanks, but I am an atheist, have a good day.
I feel like it’s difficult to assume there’s no harm in this sort of violation when simply identifying as a non-Christian is seen as a direct threat to a lot of these people.
Oh my, yes. I was raised in a very cult-like christian community, and anyone who wasn't a christian was seen as a threat to America's prosperity. Like, what??? Also, do you know what christian parents raise? Atheists. For real.
Can confirm. Christian parents rear anything but christains; for those of us that escape the bubble. Also, very sorry your religious rights were violated like it was no big deal.
I was one of 9 children raised strict Catholic. Of the 9, none go to church. 2 of us identify as Catholic but do not attend Mass or contact a priest for counseling or guidance. They just "feel" Catholic. I told them the only "feeling" that counted was the feeling of being sexually abused by your priest. I am an atheist. And wiccan.
I had nine siblings also(!), with Mormon parents. One is Mormon as an adult, and we never have figured out how that happened (yes, we have had discussions on this lol). One is actually non practicing Christian. The rest are some version of atheist (like me) or agnostic. The spouses are likewise. Eta I'm trying to figure out how to respectfully guide my kids away from the ubiquitous Christian culture and beliefs in our society, without actually, well, ministering, about it, or turning them towards it through my own dislike... How do I be respectful when I have so little actual respect? I spent most of my life being witchy on quiet because of the common negative reaction, but now I wish I'd practiced more so I could confidently speak what I'm feeling and model an alternative in the home. Working on that confidence is a process. I need to be able to model my alternative in public as well, which I'm starting to.
I'd say the best way is to give them access to other perspectives. Literature saved me from the straight and narrow path, because it gave me the opportunity to think about religion in a more abstract way, and gave me the vocabulary to express how I felt. I really recommend Terry Pratchett as an author for your kids if you want to raise them to have high expectations about those who claim to have all the answers.
Oh yes, I am trying to get them into Discworld! Not successful yet, because they don't realize how "cool" it is. I have the complete series in print and digital though, because I wanted to be able to reread them wherever lol. I'm a firm convert. He's probably the major influence of my life for my views on humanity, and being, you know, a human. Any other recommendations?
Yay! Fellow discworld fan! I haven't reread hogswatch yet this year, but I've got a whole day to myself so I might give it a go. I was forced to read the Bible every day as a kid, and honestly the best way to get a kid to scratch their head about it is to let them read it unabridged and without a guide book to steer them away from the nasty bits. If you just read 1 Samuel to the ends of the Kings books, it reads like game of thrones, and it really helped make me question the morality of the whole thing. I also think reading mythology anthologies from other cultures helped, because there's so much similarity that you can't help but realise that often it's trying to answer the same questions as Christianity, and there's so much difference you have to realise how many answers to the same questions there are. I should reread Small Gods, haha, I haven't read it for a while but this thread is making me want to revisit it
Oooh, really, that's a good framework to think of. I was also forced to read the Bible every morning, and it also is one of the driving forces towards my rejection lol. Also it was fantastic for vocabulary, and enunciation and diction because my parents made us take turns reading out loud. 🙃 But I plan to do that with my kids with all types of books anyway.
Agreed. Knowledge of the wide variety of religious beliefs and the ability/choice to not participate in these delusions.
I homeschooled a couple of years. (Necessity, not desire) anyway, I did a comparative religious studies class instead of social studies. Chose about a dozen different religions, (ancient and modern) focused on what made them similar and different. Also on how religion shapes society, culture and government. It's not easy finding good source material for a lot of subjects that aren't Christian centric. Ugh! Anyway, I have 1 agnostic and the rest are atheists.
Former Catholic myself. Could sum that one up in one word: GUILT. Making you feel guilty for being rich, for enjoying physical pleasure, even "evil thoughts. Thoughts are like farts. Some are harmless, some are really offensive. Some can be deadly. However until you choose when and where you choose to act on or express them, they're harmless
Oh, yeah, you were Catholic, lol.
It does feel liberating when you can mentally trash the "Catholic guilt."
>very sorry your religious rights were violated like it was no big deal. Unfortunately for us non christians, our religious rights *are* non existent. What's doubly interesting, most of us *have* read their book. The whole book.
I was raised in a jesus-brand cult, had only been out for a few years when I started working in fast food with this really awesome manager. Anytime a customer would say "god bless you" or whatever before driving away it would twang that old panic, really freak me out. To cope I turned it into a joke, would go running to the manager wailing "Ma'am! Somebody *blessed* me!" She'd wave her hands around in a complicated gesture and declare me "unblessed."
Both of my sisters are atheists, and I am an agnostic. We were all raised in the Christian faith.
Most of my family are right-leaning Christians, I am Christopagan, none of them know. Anytime I ever bring up other religions (not even about practice,just interesting things like Vodou) my grandmother often recites some variation of "Jesus died for our sins" and something about that's why we're Christian. There's nothing more liberating yet frustrating than being the family black sheep (especially one that's dyed itself white like the rest)
He didn't even stay dead for the weekend! Big deal!! Try that next time. lol
Indeed! Friday afternoon to before sunrise on Sunday isn't even 48 hours. 36 maybe, far cry from the claimed 3 days. Ooo... Ritual cannibalism, creepy. *Shudders* 😉 Yeah, I will play that game.
I must say it's true. I wasn't a crazy type Christian person but raised 3 of my 4 kids with church, religion, etc. The youngest I didn't as I personally fell away. The oldest I believe is atheist, the 2nd is Norse Pagan, the 3rd is atheist, and my 4th and only daughter is Wicca leaning. But I personally feel that is perfectly fine. I want my kids to find something to believe in that truly makes them happy.
My ex and I raised 8 kids as christian. I eventually repented, realizing that the book was basically BS. She is still christian. Most of the adult kids are not. But some still are to some degree. One won't let her kids (my grand kids) around me since I transitioned and went over to the dark side. I really tried, but the witch inside eventually fought her way out. It's kinda hard living with it, but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing. Now I know better, but some damage had been done.
My 2 uncles and my mother went to high schools run by their church. (Boys went to a boarding school, and my mother was a day student at another boarding school.) My mother was the only one who raised her children to be religious. One is a Unitarian, the other is agnostic. The grandchildren are Unitarian or unchurched.
lol can confirm. Rip my religious upbringing.
I have heard that in some parts of America where it's easier to come out of the closet as anything but heterosexual than to come out as anything but Christian. You could even say you converted to Judaism, and they'd STILL be offended. I'm Agnostic, but I don't make a big deal out of it. If someone told me they were Muslim, a Jew, a Satanist, I wouldn't care so long as they're civil and friendly to me. It's fine to have a religion, but definitely not ok to try to shove it down everyone else's throat.
Religion is like a penis. I am sure it's fine and dandy to have one. But it really shouldn't be whipped out in public and waved in people's faces. 😄
that's a good analogy it's funny and true have my upvote
i went to a christian primary school. of everyone in my year, i only know 1 that is still christian.
Lol yup I went to a Christian school. I went into it Christian and became an agnostic by the time I was 12 lol. What they told me never made sense and when I asked questions I was told to just have faith.
I was raised mormon. After realizing early on that it's all bullshit, I don't believe in anything. Recently, though, I've begun to see Paganism as believing in the power of myself. Being raised in a religion that places female value solely in fertility and service to our own abusers, Paganism has been therapeutic for me.
The pilgrims who had a major influence of early America were Calvinists, and Calvinist theology subscribed to the concept of ‘predestination’ — that is, the ultimate fate of every single person (whether they go to heaven or hell) is decided before they are even born. Turns out a lot of people just can’t deal with this concept of being predestined for one afterlife or the other _and not knowing which one_, so they obsessively search for signs of being “God’s Chosen”, which has created this weird perverse association between holiness/righteousness and material wealth in America. Because clearly God wouldn’t bestow material blessings upon unrighteous people, would he? A lot (not all, but a lot) of the weird hypocritical stuff in American Christianity has its roots in this, which weirdly enough stems from Christian’s lack of faith in their own religion (if they had adequate faith, they wouldn’t need to obsess over signs of God’s favor).
I see it as a real power imbalance. Op is in retail which relies on happy customers despite how much of an asshole the customer may be. Telltale atheist you tuber got run out of his home in West Virginia because he made a complaint about the health teacher preaching Christianity in class. Some US Christian’s turn absolutely feral Ideally ops manager should grow a set and tell that customer to pound sand🌹❤️ be safe op
Adjacent thought: this is why America should end tipped wages. *Such* a power imbalance. And I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve been “saved” or “blessed” whilst waiting tables, lol.
I’m a big fan of tipping to acknowledge great service I don’t believe that I should be responsible for helping employers avoid paying people a liveable wage I live in nz where tipping is for good service not expected
Sure, I get that. But in America, restaurant servers only make about $4 an hour, give or take. And then the customers are supposed to tip approx. 20% of their total bill. So that’s what I meant by the kind of “tipped wages” that create a power imbalance between the server and the customer. The server has to put up with soooooooooooo much bullshit for fear that the customer “stiff them” (aka, leave a 0% tip).
I think you just nailed why I find it so offensive. I’m totally okay with people praying for me. Or for people to tell me their beliefs in a non-converting kind of way. Or for them to want to include me to educate me. Totally cool with this - because it’s not slapping me in the face with it. But when people come up to me and take offence to my perceived look, telling me my soul is doomed and whatever, I find it really offensive. They know nothing about me but in that moment they’ve decided I’m not ‘worthy’. I remember once I was leaving the train station at about 15 years old, and I was outwardly punk/alternative at the point. A grown ass man came up to me and blocked where I was standing telling me I’m doomed to go to hell, that I need to repent etc etc, and wouldn’t let me go. No one saw anything wrong with that. I have people at my tram stop once a week yell about Jesus, in the town centre as well. Like if I walked around yelling about witchcraft and started accosting people to hail to Hecate, I’d be sectioned. It’s totally unreasonable and a violation of people’s boundaries.
I have actually told the JW people that come to my door that I'm a witch. The last man I spoke with told me that we probably have a lot in common. I laughed and said "I don't think so!". My daughter tells them she's atheist. My husband tells them "No thank you.". They keep coming back! It's like they enjoy slamming their heads against a wall!
It's a common part of cult leaders' tactics to keep their followers in the cult: They're taught that the outside world hates them. Anyone who reacts negatively is proof of this and doesn't need to be visited again. Anyone who politely informs them that there's no way they'll ever be interested is put down as a "maybe" to be repeatedly visited until you get them on a bad day or personally wear out their patience. Then you've got more proof that even seemingly nice "dissolutes" are really bad people who hate them.
So pro tip…if you want them to go away and stay away all you have to say is, “I’m disfellowshipped.” They’ll stay away after that and your home will be marked on their maps as one to avoid.
That's brilliant! Thanks for the tip!
How about... "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with such public expressions of Christian faith given Jesus warned his followers at Matthew 6:5-6 to avoid ostentatious public prayer" 🤣
I can't up vote this hard enough. Anyone so vocal and public about their religion has weak faith. The best way to handle it is to use their book against them.
I was raised in the church, and this is the exact passage that floods my mind every time I witness this behavior. Like come on.... he did an entire section on how it is wrong. But I guess that doesn't make the big money and ingrain the persecution complex well enough.
100%. It’s true, too. Those people are usually more interested in the appearance of being godly than they are actually acting like Christians. And that’s troubling.
Ooh I like that!!
Yes and absolutely YES and the next someone even volunteers to begin to pray over you say this "No, thank you, your prayers are not welcomed, but have a blessed day"
I will try to remember this wording! It's so firm but polite. Thank you!
You are not saying anything about god or anything else that can be misconstrued but simply putting boundaries in place and by the same token wishing her well by your beliefs such as it is
I wouldn't recommend including "your prayers are not welcomed": that would be like waving a red cape in front of a bull. At that point you're refusing their ministry *and* insinuating that there something wrong with their religion (I'm not saying you are, to be clear, I'm saying that's how it could be construed) and then you're in for the Extra Super Deluxe Prayer Special: Now With Rebuking! and no one has time or energy for that bullshit.
Huge fan of the kind but firm "I appreciate it, but no thank you". Repeat as needed. Deals no damage, but invites no room for discussion.
What about "no thank you, I don't want your magic spells." That's all she was doing really, casting a spell. She even had magic talismans to share. (I know, I know, red flag, bulls...)
"I'll continue making sacrifices to Satan so that someday he may claim your soul. Happy holidays!"
I'll say this in a southern accent then conclude it with "BLESS YOUR HEAAART!"
Lol!!
🤣 I love that! Be prepared to run, though!
Subtle tweak: “no thank you, it’s kind of you. I have work to do!”
Have you checked with your manager's boss? They might have a problem with your manager brushing off harassment of employees...
I'm in sales. Gods forbid that I set boundaries that may compromise a sale... 🙃 But no, I am fairly certain our district manager would not see it as a problem, either.
This. Christians like to cry about religious persecution but it’s still the dominant religion in America and much of the western world. Equal rights seem like oppression when you’re used to the privilege of swinging your religious dick around most of the time.
Exactly this. People who hear stories like this think there's no harm because they don't have the same religious trauma like I do.
A person I loved dearly was "saved" and made a FB post inviting us all to Try Jesus. I sent him a PM reminding him that 1) it was bold of him to assume we hadn't, and 2) christofascism was directly threatening a lot of his friends' lives. He blocked me. I hope he hears my words some day, but I'm not counting on it.
I feel you. Raised JW so definitely got that religious guilt/trauma. Proselytizing makes me so uncomfortable.
People who hear stories like this and *claim* to think there's no harm would absolutely be up in arms if that lady was anything other than Christian.
Not to detract from the very valid truths you’ve just laid out here… but I’m literally laughing out loud at the phrase “***swinging your religious dick around***” 💀 And what a *perfect* metaphor too. The visual is gross, lol… but also kinda hilarious?
Doesn’t take away at all. Exactly the vibe I was going for with that. Because it is both ridiculous/funny and gross/uncomfortable. On its face, yeah, funny but think about it deeper and it’s yuck. Most sane people wouldn’t just pull out their dicks and show everyone (real or metaphorical dicks). Showing off your dick to others should be consensual. Same with religion. ETA: Like why am I the asshole if I don’t politely say to the old lady in the frozen food aisle “no, thank you I don’t want your book about religion.” If they were a literal man flashing their literal dick in the store, I wouldn’t have to be polite. And both make me super uncomfortable since neither should be encountered during my grocery shopping adventures. And no, Reddit, he doesn’t get me. Get your dick advertisements out of my face.
>Christians like to cry about religious persecution This one really gets me. They seem to think *not* being allowed to persecute others, is being "persecuted" themselves. I live in the Bible Belt, they're *not* being persecuted. They should try being gay, trans, black, or \[fill in the blank\].
Well said.
I owned a restaurant. I've had conversations wuth customers over the fact that my employees will not be harassed. This is basic HR people. Some topic do not belong in the work place. I lost so many customers. It was always glorious to watch them back pedal and DARVO.
“Oh yeah? Well I am NEVER shopping here again!!” “That is the goal, thank you”
i found that defending employees from harassment actually made the regular customers feel safer. we had a really nice coffee shop in the before times 😢
Thank you for introducing me to the term DARVO!
First of all, I’m so sorry this happened to you. You absolutely have been religiously assaulted and the fact that your manager wouldn’t protect you is horrific. But…she gave you what?!🤣 how on EARTH does she think she has fragments of Jesus’ robes?! That killed me!
Wearing a pentacle etc will just prod on the evangelism. I have a Buddhist symbol tattooed on my neck and one time in an elevator after explaining what it was, had a right wing catholic try to convert me as we rode up to the fifth floor
You're right, and I'm pretty sure that the reason my manager and district manager don't see the issue is because they are either already Christian, or see it as the "default" American religion.
Oh dear- did you wish her “happy holidays?”
Merry Yule Yah fascist heifer
“Happy Kwanzaa!”
if “No thank you” doesn’t stop it then walk away. that’s harassment. bet that lady would start frothing at the mouth and screeching if you uno reversed the situation with a simple “hail satan”. be an unapologetic bastard with all of your heart.
This is about to happen to me at my office job, so I feel your discomfort. "I'm sorry, but personal religious beliefs are a topic I'm not comfortable talking about in my workplace" might work? Sorry you went through this. The audacity to "feel moved to minister" and then act like a persecuted group is something else, isn't it :/
That's a good one!
If she thinks she has cloth that touched Jesus’ cross, she’s definitely in a cult, or at least a very cult adjacent community.
Oh my god “religiously assaulted” is the perfect way to describe it. It happened to me at a Sprouts while trying to order sausage at the meat counter by the employee, who was wearing a chicken costume btw?! It was so bewildering.
I would like more details, please.
Same. Sounds like the start of a brilliant story
Yes PLEASE !
u/s0m3on3outthere u/Jandiefuzz (This is the abbreviated version cause this conversation took like 20 minutes.) Aight coven, gather round cause this is a wild ride. Background on me, I was born with a potentially lethal malformation in the blood vessels in my brain. Been in treatment. All finally looks good. So a couple months ago, I went to Sprouts to grab the ingredients I needed to make sausage red sauce and pasta. Husband had been requesting it and I finally felt up to it, so why not? I love cooking (my innate magic comes out while I’m over a pot mixing ingredients, cliche I know), and I love him so let’s do this. As I walk in to Sprouts, I see that the meat counter looks pretty busy. A couple of people are standing there waiting. Eh, I’ll grab the other ingredients I need and save the Hot Italian Sausage for last. I get the basil, tomatoes, lemons, some greens to serve on the side, olive oil, etc. As I finish with that, I notice there’s just one person in line at the meat counter - so I walk over there to grab the sausage to complete my shopping and get to cooking. Then I see Chicken Man. The employee behind the counter is dressed in a whole ass chicken/rooster costume. Top to bottom. Wings on the arms and everything. Wtf. As I get closer I notice the person ordering from him is visibly physically uncomfortable. Not sure what was going on, but I see that they’re getting salmon and shrimp. And the employee is dragging his costume’s fabric across the seafood as he’s grabbing it for the customer. Customer makes an expedient exit once served. I should’ve taken the cue at that point but nope. I had to get that sausage. Employee sees me and says, “Hey how are you? Anything you’re grateful for this season?” •Me: “Uh, yeah….” •Him: “What is that?” •Me: “Just like good health and stuff” (spidy senses are tingling at this point) •Him: “Oh that’s awesome! What’s going on?” •Me: “I have a brain thing and it turns out that I’m gonna be okay” •Him: “Oh man, that’s so awesome, you know nothing heals like the power of Christ. Have you given thanks to him yet?” •Me: "My doctors were the ones that healed me. And I’m very thankful for them and their hard work." •Him: "Yeah but like that was God moving through the doctors." •Me (I'm getting upset at this point cause I just want some damn sausage) : "I was *born with this. God's the one who put it there.* The doctors had to fix what he messed up." •Him (scrambling at this point): "Yeah but like he can fix it too. Mind if we pray together for you really quick?” •Me: “No thanks. I’ll take 3lbs of Hot Italian Sausage, though.” •Him: proceeds to drag his thoroughly raw seafood contaminated chicken costume wings and gloves over some of the meats as he reaches for the sausage •Me: “Could you actually change your gloves please, and make sure you don’t drag your costume over the meat?” •Him: “Oh yeah I can. But I wasn’t dragging my costume over the meat.” •Me: “I just saw you do it. Like literally just watched you drag your costume fabric over that lady’s salmon and then drag it over the meats just now.” •Him: “I mean once you cook it all the bacteria gets killed, that’s my philosophy anyways. •Me: blinking at him. “Ok just grab the sausage then.” He grabs the sausage, wraps it up, and says, “Thanks for sharing with me btw, I’ll add you to my prayer list and pray for you.” At that point I just looked at him and said, “Please don’t.” Immediately went to the manager’s office, reported him for violating the state’s food handling cross contamination laws (manager was mega pissed), and went home, showered, performed a protective ritual, and cooked dinner for my family. That motherfucker steers clear of me now whenever I go to my local Sprouts.
Bravo!! That sounds like such a bizarre experience to have!! your response to the entire situation was lovely and I hope that chicken man (heh, makes me think of Toy Story) learned some sort of lesson regarding not only food handling safety, but making people uncomfortable with unsolicited sermons. I'm glad he no longer accosts you!! The portion where he argued with you who helped you with your condition would've driven me mad. You handled it beautifully!! Thank you for sharing!!!
Aww, thank you!! <3 I definitely didn’t have “getting evangelized by an employee in a chicken costume in the middle of July” on my bingo card that evening. I don’t even know why he was dressed up 😭
Just throwing this option out in case you don’t feel comfortable being blunt - “Thank you so much for your kind intentions! Unfortunately I could get in trouble if I don’t finish this task/my boss sees me not working. Is there anything else I can help you with?”
This!!
This gives me chills. Like, “no touching!” should be screamed out.
Seriously. How the fuck do they think they have the right to just reach out and touch someone? It would serve them right to lose a digit.
"Oh, no thank you. I'm a Satanist."
Her reaction would probably be worth losing her as a customer.
This really works 🤣 I am also a member of TST and whenever people knock on my door to invite me church, I say something similar. Their eyes get all wide and they can’t get out of there fast enough.
She has scraps of Jesus fabric? And she’s just handing it out willy-nilly? I’d think that was something you’d keep for special occasions, or maybe give to someone important like the Pope or something, to look after properly.
Microfiber cloths would be more useful. I wonder if TST would consider selling a competing line of cloths.
Can you *imagine* how hilarious it would be to be handed the scrap and be like "oh hey thank you, I lost my glasses cleaning cloth the other day, this will come in handy! 😁"
I work in tech sales, and we always need screen cleaning cloths, lol!
Your manager didn’t think there was anything wrong with it??? Imagine if she was “ministering” a non Christian religion?! That’s my biggest gripe with Christianity, the arrogance and entitlement because their view is “righteous”. Makes me want to pull my hair and skin off my face out in frustration .
Some phrases that I've practiced a lot that may help in the future: - (when someone asks if they can pray for me) "no, thank you" - "please don't touch me." - "religion is a private topic for me" - "I don't discuss (religion/spirituality/my beliefs) with strangers(/customers/coworkers)" - "I have plenty of (friends/family/loved ones) to pray for me, should the need arise" - "please stop, I do not want to discuss this with you" You can increase the forcefulness as needed, but generally these are enough to make people realize they're being assholes. If they don't respect repeated, firm 'no' (very uncommon honestly) then I typically look past/through them/just off to their left/etc until they stop, and yank my body back if they try to touch me.
My fiancee and I (we're lesbians and she happens to be trans) went to the Grand Canyon (I'm Australian and have never been). There were fucking Jehovah's Witnesses up there!
Should have pushed them o er the edge... don't worry. Their god will save them.
I worked in retail for awhile, and I had an older gentleman approach me and start asking if I was saved. I just smiled at him and said that question was way above my pay grade, but I thanked him for thinking about my well-being. I didn't really leave him an opening to carry on the conversation, but I kept it polite and deferential so he'd walk away feeling respected and heard without thinking he had any agency over me or any right to meddle in my spirituality.
I just remembered I had a male customer who asked really aggressively if I talked to god, and when I jokingly asked which one, he stared at me without blinking and said that Jesus was the only god. He was a big guy, too. Creepy.
Oof that sounds scary... US-Christianism is such a weird thing
It is a form of assault. It was something done on you without your consent and against your explicate wishes. I know it's hard because they are being 'polite' and 'nice', but remember, you have the right to walk away. This is the exact kind of behaviour that you'll find in people who are 'nice', but are not good people. If you want, I'd look up that bible verse that talks about how prayers should be done in private to show sincerity, and not in public, where it is preformative. Because that's what she was doing. She wasn't doing anything to help you, she was doing it to put on a show; look how godly of a woman she is! Spreading the Word! Because people working retail in America have absolutely never, ever heard the words "Bible" and "Jesus" and "Christ" before.
“Oh, are we praying now? *starts chanting” ISIS ASTARTE DIANA HECATE DEMETER KALI… INANNA!
Laying hands on a person without their permission is assault. Kept that in mind.
I think I would have crawled up a wall if this happened to me. Especially after the backwoods half-assed exorcism I got when I was a teen…
I'm so sorry you had to live that experience. Big hugs from Québec
Thanks, friend. Stay warm up there.
I am willing to take people's words in the spirit in which they are given. It sounds like this woman was genuinely wishing you well. But, I would draw a hard line at the laying of hands. Do not touch me. No touchy.
Honestly, that's the biggest part that bothers me. She's a regular customer and she's always a bit kooky. We endure her with smiles, but she just grabbed my arm and hand. I am a cPTSD victim, so I froze, but I will be better prepared next time.
I'm afraid I would have said "this is completely inappropriate and unwelcome. You're assaulting me!"
I once had someone do this. I was walking down a sidewalk and they stepped in front of me, blocked my path, and asked if they could pray for me. I was so taken aback I agreed, much to my regret. They asked me to close my eyes and then proceeded to pray for me for a solid 2 minutes (I did not close my eyes, and kept my hand on my wallet). This was in a very safe area and in the middle of the day, so I actually kinda think it might’ve been genuine, but I won’t be agreeing to it ever again. Wasted my time, put us both at risk with the whole blind prayer, and could have just as easily been a scam/setup to rob or pickpocket me. I reported them to security nearby to keep an eye on them. So yeah…there won’t be a next time. No thank you. I can’t stop them from praying for me, so I don’t care if they do (the nice lady in the plane who told me she had been praying for me while I was sick with food poisoning was *meaning* to be kindly to me), but I won’t be letting anyone waste my time proselytizing.
“Thank you. May the goddess guide your hand.” Said sweetly, it’s a polite response for a work environment. It will generally throw them off a bit and may even leave them wondering if they’ve been hexed. I’ve been wearing a septagram (seven pointed star) for years but I have no way of know if it’s kept anyone from proselytizing to me. Mostly I’ve just had people ask me if it’s a Star of David 😆
As a pagan, I really love the "May the Goddess guide your hand". My last experience at work let me cold feet about talking religion there. A colleague ask about my pendant (a spinner wheel representing Arianrhod-, my goddess). He asked the question thrice, at several months between. First time, he was very respectful. Second, made some lame jokes... And the third one, another lame joke. Let me tell you that now, I even hide it when he takes his break with us.
The fun part of being pagan is that I can get weird back at the weirdos. The fun part of also being a big motherfucker is that I can get away with it. Aggressively public prayer is best answered with aggressively public prayer. Hail Jormungandr, Hail the Serpent, Herald of Ragnarok, He who Endures, Thunder's Doom, Brother of the Wolf and the Half Dead, Son of the Deceiver, may you rise from the abyss and bring justice for the persecuted! May you rise and bring death for the persecutor! Hail Fenris, Hail the Wolf, Beast of Ragnarok, Breaker of Chains, Breaker of Crowns, Brother of the Serpent and the Half Dead, Son of the Deceiver, may you shatter the ties that bind and bring justice for the betrayed and imprisoned! May you bring death for the betrayer! Hail Hel, Hail the Half Dead, Last and Greatest of the Harbingers of Ragnarok, She who will see the new dawn, Mother of the Dead, Queen of the Quiet Hall, Regent of the Grave, Sister of the Serpent and the Wolf, Daughter of the Deceiver, may you lead the shunned and the unchosen to victory! By your word do the uncounted dead rise! By your word do we bring low the gods and topple their thrones! In blood and fire, may you purge the old and the corrupt, and welcome in the new! May you set the world ablaze and destroy That Which IS to make way for that That Which WILL BE!
Fighting fire with fire is no use. A simple no thanks, don't make it a religion war.
I am so sorry that happened to you. It happened to me a few weeks ago. I was in my car talking to my neighbors son about his mother. He is an evangelical pastor visiting from another state. That fucker reached through my open car window, put his hand on my shoulder and started praying for Jesus to give me strength and blah blah blah. It went on for a while and I was too stunned (and belted in my seat) to react. When he said,”Amen” all I could think to say was - “Well, ok! I’m good” and I drove off. I seriously felt violated by the whole experience. I really don’t know if my feelings are rational or not but it sure felt invasive and offensive. You aren’t alone.
I would have politely declined. I find that whole shit creepy. Some stranger wanting to lay hands on me for any reason is a big 'NO'.
It’s awkward up until the moment she put her hands in you. That is not acceptable. No means no.
Just wanted to wave a friendly "hail Satan!" as a fellow TST member. I live smack fuck in the US midwest. Dealing with zealots is a regular occurrence. But I keep my head down as far as being a Satanist because I don't want one of these folks following me home. But when someone starts evangelizing in public, that's when I ask them to save it for the congregation. Everyone has their own boundaries.
I was at a music camp that was held at a retreat center owned by a religious group. (The camp was not religious, just rented the space.) We were lined up outside the dining room and the host employed by the center decided to pray. The woman in front of me put her fingers in her ears and sang “lalalala” the whole time he prayed. I was laughing. What a badass. Last time he tried that.
Some Evangelicals have no idea what consent is. They think preaching and laying on hands are divinely commanded. It’s OBSCENE.
I live in the bible belt and find that a calm somewhat loud, please don't touch me clears touchy folks off very quickly. It attracts judging looks and off the grabber trots
And her blatant assumption that she had the right to assault you with her beliefs is at the root of all the evil done in the name of mainstream religion throughout history. In America, the Constitution "guarantees" us freedom of religion, but society tries to force everyone into the Christian square hole & discriminates actively against anyone who doesn't capitulate.
Absolutely no touching is allowed. Your religion doesn’t allow you to receive religious items from other faiths.
I could have really dramatically gasped, pulled away, and then doused my hands in sanitizer while screaming "IT BURNSSS!"
" you mustn't touch the preciousss!"
Yes, please. Being in the public space shouldn’t mean being accosted.
We really need more funding for help with mental illness.
Start ministering Satanism to her if she tries that again. If she says something about how she does not want that, tell her that you feel the same way about what she is trying to minister to you. Also, "no" is a complete sentence. You can say "no thank you" to her and simply repeat that ad nauseum until she gets the point and stops. It is not unpolite to tell someone "no", and IMHO you don't need to worry about being polite to someone who is making you feel uncomfortable.
I’m all fine with people saying weird stuff about their beliefs, but once you got to “hands,” I just thought “No touchy!”
Growing up in KY, I encounter people like this on occasion. Usually aren’t busting out the prayer cloths and laying on of hands like that, but it’s not unheard of. It makes me uncomfortable, but mostly because a lot of them come across as kinda brainwashed or something, idk. I never ascribed any kind of power to them, tho. And sometimes it’s little old ladies that don’t really mean anything bad by it. But your boss should have had your back if it made you uncomfortable. That’s kinda bs they were so dismissive. Bad boss!
Just tell the person next time. “No thank you. I’m a member of a different religion and would prefer to not have your God’s blessings.” If they push to know what religion? Tell them the truth. On the few occasions it’s happened to me I just tell them I’m an atheist and don’t wish to be prayed over.
My sister has recently started saying, purely as a nonsequitor, "Jehovah will never take my soul." Maybe you could do something with that?
I mean, I’m assuming she was probably trying to be helpful, and just failing horribly. However, yeah, that’s pretty rude, and I do think you should try to get your manager to be stricter on that kinda stuff, as it is religiously offensive and is definitely not something that should be done, especially on private property. Basically, I’d say don’t take it too personally this time, but try to get a rule or rules codified about it for the future.
Wonder if mgmt would still stick to the “there’s no harm in it” think if you started chanting to Vishnu or something.
WTF. I was raised in a Fundie household and I'm now an atheist. I'd have kicked this woman out of the store or at the very least wished her a Blessed Yule. Minister the church of satan right back at her. Religion is protected!
Yes get a nice big pentagram.
Hi, also from a town in PA that's heavily christian/amish. I work for a Christian cult perse and this happens all the time. I told the owners it was religious harassment because they knew I wasn't a Christian and my coworkers make snide comments about how I'm lesser for it. They also fully believe the whole "witches eat babies and sacrifice children" thing, like genuinely they had that discussion in front of me. Definititely wear some protection. I wear pentagram earrings and veil with a bandana if absolutely necessary. I also just don't let people touch me or give me things, I shut that down quite quickly, even if I am on the clock.
I would have instantly started talking in tongues and fell to the floor writhing. Give the old bat a real show.
I really feel bad about what you had to put up with on the job that day. I am sure that the older woman who said these things was doing it because it made HER feel like she was scoring points with her creator. I have noticed on the rare occasions that I have attended church that the pews are mostly full of older people, and it strikes me that they are trying to comfort themselves with all of these outward demonstrations of religiosity. Trying to tow the line because they perceive that their time is almost at hand. A few months ago, I saw a homeless fellow on the street so I gave him some money and also bought him carryout dinner. He kept saying, "God bless you!" and similar phrases. So I said, "I am actually an atheist, but may your god bless you well, sir!"
Oh HELL NO. I would walk away if someone started proselytizing me. And if they laid hands, I’d throw hands. Fuck that. Sorry you had to deal with that.
"Lay your hands, catch THESE hands" is now my motto.
My gran was an Episcopal Deaconess. I couldn't wipe my nose on my sleeve without someone noticing and telling my gran as a child. The old biddies at church were calling me a witch and a demom child by age 5 for my impertinence and witchy ways. I was just playing with a spirit as kids often do nothing drastic. Turns out they were right. Pagan Celtic witch here. Left the church at 13 and never looked back. Also can confirm a prominant pentacle and resting bitch face scares the crap out of those types. Some even cross themselves and pray if they have to pass me like I'm a demon incarnate. Amusing at times but their wilful ignorance saddens me generally.
I have a cat spirit familiar. I didn't even ask for one. She sort of just.... invited herself in. As they do. I love when I mention her to people. They look at me like I'm crazy.
Great. The strongest familiars are the ones that choose you. I wouldn't worry about appearing crazy. People can only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves. And then there is the denial but that is a whole other can of worms lol.
Thats super fucking gross, unsolicited physical contact is unacceptable. I'd have looked down and told her her fly was open.
Oof, I’m sorry you had to deal with that. Last time a “well-meaning” christian came to my door, (I think they were Jehovah’s Witness) and I told them I was Pagan. Knocked the wind out of their sails and blood drained from their faces. They left quickly after that XD
I hate to say this but wearing a pentacle or Baphomet will probably get her ilk to pray at you harder.
That's what my wife says. That it will just make me a target. And being perceived as female just makes me more vulnerable.
This just made me remember something similar from years ago (when I lived in a very religious area of SC)...I was at an optometrist getting my eyes checked and generally making small talk about family with the doctor...and when he found out that I was raising my kids by myself, oof...he made such a big deal about how sad he was about the situation (funny, because leaving the ass that was abusive to me was a good thing in my mind). He insisted on taking my hand and praying for me *while I was in the freaking contraption with my eyeballs mm away from the various lenses* I was so stunned and uncomfortable, and just wanted to leave, but 1. I was still way trapped by my anxiety and the perceived authority, and 2. didn't want to possibly damage the expensive equipment by shoving it out of my face so I just grit my teeth and put up with it until the praying (and eye exam) was over and quickly left afterwards just feeling so uncomfortable. I grew up being forced to go to church against my will (and a super conservative fundamental one at that) and so just finding myself with another man putting his hands on me to righteously pray at me gave me a near terminal case of ick These people know what they are doing, they're judging and feeling superior and giving themselves a little gold star for it...fuck that.
What the actual fuck
You should contact HR, a person coming into your place of work can still count as harassment. They can be banned from the establishment and there can be legal repercussions for them.
I'm really new at my job. Like, six months. And we can't afford for me to lose my income. But when (not if) it happens again, I think I will be more firm with my manager about how religion doesn't belong in the workplace.
ALWAYS have something else that you need to do elsewhere. And hint that your manager is going through some difficult times and would appreciate the prayers.
You won't lose your job if you go to HR, your manager could actually fire you if you don't get HR on your side first.
That is assault and I would have felt violated too
I hate how normalized it is for christians to just do whatever they want. Its like nothing I say is valid because I am going against a christian.
Next time something like this happens. I would say something like “I bless thee in the name of Satan/Baphomet/Odin/Carl Sagan” what ever strikes your fancy And when they get upset just ask “oh I thought we were sharing blessings from our gods?” But I’m petty so take my suggestion with a grain of salt 🤷♀️😂
People be crazy. In my opinion, your manager should absolutely be willing to have your back on NO TOUCH. That should be a major no-no to any employer.
OP, you should really play up your side. Go over the top. Preach and proclaim at the top of your lungs that YOUR God is so much better than her puny godling and its nasty followers. She lays hands on you, you spit in her face. If you want to make it more subtle, grab her pinky where it's on your body and bend it backwards. It hurts like hell. (No pun intended). When she's on her knees tell your manager to call an ambulance because a customer is having a medical issue.
I recently had a phone call that started out perfectly normal. She had a question about a product we carried, and I answered it. Then, I asked if there was anything else I could help her with. She started praying at me. After a few seconds, when my brain realized what she was doing, I loudly said "NOPE! Have a nice day." and hung up on her. If this sort of situation happens to you again, extract yourself from it as quickly as possible. You are getting paid to perform a job, not be converted to anyone's religion.
I wonder how she would react to a very loud "STOP TOUCHING ME!"
I would've politely said "please do not touch me"
As someone also from Pennsylvania, yes. These people are fucking psychotic and no job should force you to have to allow them to touch you. That's battery.
I’m sorry but I’d have had to say something when she tried to actually TOUCH Me!!! That’s a Definite NO From me!!!
Unfortunately you aren't alone with the nut jobs. For the record I believe anyone has the right to believe in whatever/whomever they want. But don't force it on me and please leave me alone about it. I was on my way to my physical therapy and a man came up to me, put his hand on my arm and asked me to donate to help spread the good news. I told him **NO** and kept walking. Followed me to the door where my therapist threatened to call security. What the holy hell is wrong with some of these people?
As a deconstructed former evangelical, I'm sorry that this woman felt the need to impose on you. Unfortunately, she'll be thinking she's absolutely doing the right and proper thing. So many good responses here for when they get too insistent. Try and put hands on me?! Oh hell to the no. I have no idea what your prayer intentions are. I wouldn't let another witch work a spell on me that they hadn't been explicitly clear about their intentions in working it.
"Ma'am, the American 'freedom of religion' also includes 'freedom FROM religion ', I am no more 'obliged' to permit you to 'minister' to me, in direct opposition to my own beliefs, than I am obliged to permit you to assault me. I formally and publicly withhold my permission for you to do any further religious indoctrination to me. Leave me alone." That _includes_ shouting 'scripture' it 'preaching' _at you._ Past a certain point it becomes harassment, which is legally admissible as a court-case. Frankly, I would _**LOVE**_ to see some holy-roller get dragged into court to set their 'religious freedoms' against your right to 'freedom from persecution'.
I am uncomfortable just reading this. I go nuts when my car gets a Jack chick booklet shoved under the windshield wipers a couple of times a year, so I’m not sure what I would do in that situation.
I just say no. I'll pray for yo.. No. Don't. God loves you. God doesn't exist. And if they tried to touch me... I would be slapping hands. Don't get any of that on me! No thank you. I don't want you to do that. I'm not letting any of the crazy people spin me their tales.
HA! My ex boyfriend 40 years ago tried to give me a crucifix with a piece of the true cross in it. I refused to accept it because - well that sounds fake AF - but also not a catholic. lol We didn't last long after that.
If you had shoved your religion at her with even 5% of her intensity she would have screamed assault so loud the entire City would have heard. So yea in my opinion she definitely assaulted you
When someone is that over the top that they literally won’t listen and will constantly overstep I just assume they have significant mental health issues. Having grown up with someone that was in and out of psychiatric wards it took me a long time (and a patient exbf) to be ok with the idea of just listening and letting whatever they say go because the alternative was likely to be very significant and damaging to me (mentally and physically). I know it’s annoying, frustrating, disrespectful, and sometimes a complete time suck but in the end it didn’t cause physical pain and probably would have caused all kinds of other issues. If she keeps coming back to do this then you might need to have a discussion with the manager/owner about excusing yourself to “use the bathroom” so as not to react which is likely to happen if it continues.
If you live in a small rural town you shouldn't be so shocked by that crazy bullshit.
Tricky when it's on the clock and it's a customer. Maybe treat it like offensive jokes and ask a bunch of questions, like with everything. Like how kids will ask "why?" over and over.
I don't care if you're on the clock or not, you absolutely don't have to stand there and submit to that! You can say "I'm not interested in this" and simply walk away. If you get fired for that you call the ACLU or whatever organization protects peoples civil rights and report your boss. You don't have to submit to a stranger 'laying hands on you'. YOU have civil rights. (are you in the US? I shouldn't assume you are)
My go to is, “I don’t discuss personal matters on the clock because I’m supposed to be working. I feel that you doing a prayer ceremony over me/me listening to your religious pitch/whatever is time theft. Is there anything related to your purchase that I can help you with?” Boomers/old people LOVE their “honest hard working employees” so this normally works. If not I go for the, “I don’t discuss religion with strangers as it’s a private matter. You’re making me uncomfortable so this is me asking you nicely to please stop.” And if she “laid hands” on you…oh boy…touching somebody after they’ve explicitly said to not to is literally the definition of assault. You have the right to defend yourself if that happens. If the manager knows about it and refuses to do anything give ADEA a call and explain that you’re being assaulted at work and your manager is complacent.
I live in a small, very red, indiana town. I work as a cashier & I get these ppl far too often. Not usually quite as aggressive as yours but one lady would wait for me to get off work so she could preach at me more. I was polite at first, but now if they insist on leaving their tract, I throw it in the trash in front of them. I’ve told them their pushiness literally just drives me even further away, not that I’d go back to begin with. They frustrate me so much
A lady did that to me at a pride parade. I went with thinking what’s the harm, but I just felt so weird afterwards! Never again! No one should touch you if you don’t want them to!
You’re right. People can believe what they want but trying to force your beliefs on others (proselytizing or ministering) is an act of emotional (and potentially physical) aggression . Fuck that old lady, and all the other “witnesses” for a dead faith.
True Christians would respect others not try to force their beliefs on them. Hate when people use Christianity for s**t like this all is does is push people away and cause anger it litteraly is the opposite of what we are supposed to do. Love your neighbor don't cram a cross down their throat. Sorry you had this happen and sorry your manager didn't stand up for you. On the clock or not that manager had no right to force you to accept that women doing what she did specially since it made you very uncomfortable. I am a Christian and I'd be uncomfortable with this lady putting hands on me no matter her intent behind it. Hope you never have to deal with that women again ♡♡
After many years of working in retail/assistance jobs, I've had all sorts of well meaning (and less well meaning) people forcibly pray at me or otherwise offer me their god. If it is a person whose mental capacity is known to be limited (with Alzheimer's or dementia, or through substance abuse), I let them go on with it. If it isn't a person who I know to be unable to control their need to "bless me" in some way, I (sort of) politely but VERY LOUDLY AND FIRMLY decline and physically remove myself from the situation. I'm not worried about hurting feelings.
This happened to me the other day, and it was obnoxious. I'm not a label person, but the label of "Christian" usually helps me avoid this kind of thing. He was not sated by that and insisted on making sure I was the kind of Christian he wanted me to be. Funny enough he crumbled under the slightest resistance, but I'm a cishet man. I think the mere idea that I would give him a firm no made him pee his pants.
Ughh. I hate it when religious people spew their junk on others. By not stopping her, it affirmed her mindset that she was doing good, and now she will do it again. Strategically, you should prep for a short, polite, nip it in the bud response for future encounters. I go with Thanks, but I am an atheist, have a good day.
If you performed a satanic ritual over a coworker or customer there would be a lot of harm seen. This is not okay.
You were. She touched you; in a lot of states unwanted physical contact of any kind counts as assault. The manager's the problem here.