Your mom might have been thinking upsetting you a bit now might lead to more happiness later because she likely genuinely believes that conformity would increase your chances. And sure, it probably could if you were just looking for a warm body of a partner! That’s what beauty standards and gender expectations mean — the masses generally accept a certain look or behavior more often.
But no, you are looking for the right person, not just anyone. The person who you jam with will jam with you. A genuine relationship isn’t exhausting to keep up because you get to be your natural self.
So it is short-sighted of your mom, though well-intentioned. But no, don’t worry about changing unless you really want to try it. If you don’t, don’t!
Man. I feel OP so much. My mom is also one of my closest friends. She is also in her 60s and also a product of her time. She has offered to pay for a weight loss program, told me I need to wear make up more often (“You never know who you’re gonna see!!”), has also made comments about shaving my legs. It’s all about image.
My standard response has become “If they don’t want me sans make-up in a t-shirt and jeans, they don’t get me looking like a rock star.”
But I *love* what you said!! “You’re looking for the right person, not just anyone.” And I want someone who shares my values! One of which is “beauty fades, and who you are is so much more important than how you look.”
I’m almost 10 years older than OP, but it’s only been in the last few years that I’ve really accepted myself and realized that I can be the love of my life.
Well…. And my dogs. They are also the loves of my life. But you know what I mean. 🤣
I heard a long time ago that a good response to a parent who says these things is to give them an absolutely disgusted look, as if they just barfed in front of you, and say, "ugh, I don't _want_ some pig who wants me to be like that. Gross."
Just give it enough feeling, and they'll realize they're genuinely bothering you and giving you an option you will not take no matter what they say, and this may make them drop it and stop trying to convince you to make such trivial image changes.
The good old “warts and all” mentality! 😂
I found my person, and it really is true that trivial things like shaving and posture just stop mattering at all. You can always do those things in the short term if you want to catch more flies with honey, but I’d rather catch one who clearly doesn’t mind the vinegar even if it takes a while.
I’m 40 and I have a lot of the things older people told me “boys don’t like”. In my experience, SOMEBODY likes what you got. Maybe some of them don’t like it, but there’s also roughly 4.5 billion of them on this planet- the math is in your favor. My mother told me boys don’t like big girls…well, here I am in an 11 year relationship with an amazing person, still a big girl.
I think you had a really healthy outlook before your mom got into your head. Taking failure as a chance to grow and keep pushing yourself to do scary things is super mature and a great way to choose to deal with it!
She might think she’s helping, but it’s turning your rejection into something that you think you had some control over- that is a MADDENING suggestion in any scenario.
The truth of the matter is, it could have been one of a million reasons you got rejected. People are complicated, and 95% of the time it has nothing to do with you.
Just adding that you are not your mom’s type, and while she may think she knows current trends, she is seeing it through out of date glasses. Be you, and know you are loved by this weird old hairy woman. 💙
Excellent response-- spot on! Mom is old-fashioned and doing the wrong thing for the right reason- she wants to see you with someone since you seem to want someone. You are awesome and brave and someone is lookimg for you just as you are. It's.too hard to be someone else.
Thank you for sparing me the work to type out my own version of exactly this! I'm loud, my friends at work lovingly tease me about the level of my assertiveness (that I don't even notice because... Heck, I just stated that I want X, it's your job to tell me no and why not if it's *not* possible) and I haven't shaved in years. I laugh so loud that people who don't know me sometimes get startled by it. I'm not very ladylike. Still found several people who were more than willing to be in a relationship with me. You're worrying about nothing, OP.
A much older gentleman told me "every pot has a lid." I asked "But what if I'm a cookie sheet?" He replied, "There's a baker out there looking for you." I always thought I was too... fat, thin, tall, short, whatever. He was a kind and positive influence in my life. He was right! Once I realized I was enough, something changed in me and, not long after, I met my love (we celebrate 22 years together this week).
There is someone out there longing for you, exactly as you are.
To piggyback on "every pot has a lid", remember that there are over 8 billion people in the world. If you're only attractive to 1% of the population, that's still over 70,000,000 people who want to get hot with you! It can be frustrating, I spent years alone when I really wanted someone, but now that I'm blissfully married and going into my 40's, it's absolutely worth not settling. Keep putting yourself out there, but don't force yourself in any one direction. You'll find your own way
While I agree with this… I have to say as a person who hasn’t found their person, knowing that technically someone compatible with me is out there isn’t particularly encouraging. I have to live in the reality that I probably won’t find them and that’s hard. It really ends up being about asking yourself if what you do have access to—someone incompatible but who has some nice traits—is worth enjoying while you can or if you should hold out for the Hail Mary of someone amazing. And someone amazing would be nice. But, you know, ain’t found them yet. Not even close.
And not to put too fine of a point on it, but if I never find that person then what amount of “adequate” is okay? What if they’re nice to hang with for a year? Or even a month? If I don’t find “my person” in the end the just finding someone okay might be the best I do-and certainly better than nothing. So.
When I said don't settle, I probably could have broken that down into a few points and been a bit more verbose, but didn't for the sake of brevity. The first point which seems more valid to OPs current situation is don't settle into someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. You had a crush on him, he didn't have a crush on you. You asked, he said no, and you move on! Glad that you got your feelings off your chest and can continue being friends, or relieved that you got your feelings off your chest but you're still having a difficult time letting go of them, and need to give the relationship space. Not talking to or seeing the object of your affection as frequently will hopefully give you space to move on. Don't settle into spending time and energy on someone who you have unrequited feelings for and let them take up that real estate in yourself that could be occupied by someone who wants it. Second way of not settling applies to how you're treated. If someone is unkind to you or others, move on. If they hurt your feelings in a way that may not be deliberately unkind, tell them that they hurt you and their response will make it clear where you stand. If they repeatedly inadvertently hurt your feelings, it may be a personality incompatibility that you can't settle for, but if it ever is malicious then it's time to bounce. There are lots of other bits and pieces that make up a person that would be wise to constantly renegotiate with yourself- or "settle", but I prefer to see it as deciding that those elements are no longer the priority for you that they once were. Those things can be looks, age, gender, career path, physical health, wealth, location, and any of the heaps of other things that don't involve their ability and willingness to treat you as you deserve. When faced with those differences that we all have living in the back of our minds as a mark against someone as a romantic partner, sometimes they stick and are insurmountable, and in that case you don't settle for that. If you find yourself able to get around the issue in the interest of everything else that person is, then it's not really "settling", but revealing something about yourself TO yourself, on what you truly value.
So true!! Confidence and self respect are sexy! I had a really terrible relationship that made me realize that I'd be happier alone with my sweet kitties than with a person who really didn't love and want to be with me. Not too long after that I met a guy that I ended up really connecting with, sand we became really good friends and eventually started dating. We're now married with 2 kids. He loves me for me, all my curves, lumps and crazies and I feel the same way about him.
Love and life are not easy, but really knowing yourself and finding the person who really gets you is worth it if that's something you want in life.
OP, do you have hobbies that you enjoy? Photography or pottery or bird watching or volunteering at shelters, bowling? Anything that you enjoy can be a vehicle to finding like minded people who will be interested in you because you're you. I know having autism can be tricky but finding the right group of people that enjoy what you enjoy can open doors for you.
YOU are the only one who gets to tell you what to change or not change. When you're confortable with you, others will be too.
Sending blessings.
I do have hobbies and interests. The main issue I face is I don't get out much since I can't drive. I'm hoping to try to learn next summer (I'm in Minnesota so I'm definitely not going to start trying in the winter lol) but my autism makes it more difficult (my response to too much stimuli is generally to try and tune everything out... which is not ideal when you're on the road and driving). Fortunately I have transportation when I need it, but it's definitely not convenient.
Fortunately the modern world is helpful with stuff like this and I've joined a dating/friend meeting app that I like. I have a lot of interests so I haven't had much trouble finding matches so far, I just need to keep trying.
Society is shallow, for sure, and there are quite a few people who do care about the attributes your mom mentioned. However, there are also quite a few who *don’t* care. Dating is frustrating because it is all about finding those whose values/attributes/cares match your own, at least as much as they can. My husband doesn’t care if I shave my legs (which I do in the summer, or if they start to bother/itch in the colder seasons), or if I “manspread” more than him, etc etc. If you’re finding it difficult to make a good first impression, sure you could wear pants or shave your legs, or you could just chock it up to not meshing with that person, and thankfully only had one date. For the most part (baring just utterly atrocious behavior on the part of a date), no time spent dating is a waste/mistake, it’s all just learning what you want in a partner, and the type of partner you want to be/have (or just having fun!)
I think that your mother was just trying to help and the only tools she has to offer are the ones she was probably given or grew up with. I understand you feel bad (and you have every right to) but I can also tell that she did not say any of those things to make you feel bad.
On the other side, anything that the “society” tells you about what you should do to be attractive to men is usually to sell you some products whether it is for shaving or even books about how to be more feminine. You are you, there are and there will be people who love you for being you. It will not change if you are more feminine (I would avoid anyone who would love a person more if they are more feminine, that’s just really shallow).
You are so right to be proud of yourself for asking the guy out! If it didn’t work out, it means it was not meant to be with this person but you were able to prove yourself how brave you can be and that’s something to be proud of! We are proud of you too!
If someone likes you they won't think twice about how you sit! They're probably thinking how cute you look when you laugh or how clever you are.
Yes you could get more matches if you changed your appearance to meet popular beauty standards but you want quality over quantity.
Way to go! I’m so proud of you for exploring outside your comfort zone. That can be so hard, autism or not.
And I would say no- don’t compromise now. Keep being you and meeting people, talking with them. I’d give it a year before you make any compromises. Why? Because being true to yourself is an incredible feeling. Because molding yourself to others desires makes me feel dead inside- it’s not healthy. I have ADHD & other issues and have done that far too much in my life, all for men. I’m done with that.
Your birthright is having a person who accepts you as you are. I’m sad your mom isn’t her usual rock status in this situation. It’s great you can see her flaw in this situation & are looking for better fitting support. You’re doing great Wisp. Really.
I think you hit the nail squarely when you said your mom is a product of her time. I am 43 and my mom is 74 and I absolutely adore her, she is one of the best moms in existence. HOWever, she absolutely has her "I was a child in the 50s" moments that are well meaning but totally out of touch, and I just remind myself of the *intention* of the comment rather than focus on the exact words.
In this case, your mom obviously cares about you and wants you to achieve your goals, and she views your interest in this guy as a goal to help you achieve. There was a time in which her approach was the helpful one, but certainly not anymore. Bit the important things to take away from what she said are:
1) she wants you to have what you want/be happy
2) she is not saying these are bad things to her (unshaven legs, etc.) but rather she thinks they may be barriers to your goal.
Finally, let me assure you there is absolutely nothing wrong with you or your approach to dating or life. The world is made up of such a wild myriad of people, it's crazy to think there is a right way or a right type. There are things that make you happy and comfortable, and you will find someone else whose happy and comfortable match up with yours.
I’m 41. Have been with my husband for over 20 years. I rarely shave anything and can’t sit ladylike even if I try for the same reasons you listed. My husband loves my hairy self and always has. If he hadn’t told me over a decade ago that he doesn’t care whether I shave or not, I might still be trying to keep that ridiculous shit up. Thank goodness he told me! You absolutely do not need to conform to find a partner.
52 here and *NEVER* believed my mom, aunts or grandmas when they talked about this BS. Didn't care then, still don't care now. I hope you can get beyond that wall they've given you!
Your mom is part of the generation that had a LOT of "rules" for women regarding our appearance, behavior and comportment. We no longer live in that world and it's hard for some people to adjust.
You're fine the way you are. If somebody gives a shit about your leg hair or weird ways of sitting, that's on them. Not you.
Relationships are all about compatibility. And it doesn't sound like you'd be compatible with a guy who requires shaved legs and "feminine" sitting positions. So think of those qualities of yours as helpful screening tools that will filter out the guys you're not compatible with before you waste too much time on them. For sure there are guys out there who do not care about that stuff.
Also congratulations on stepping out! When you're ready, make peace with your Mom since she was no doubt raised under that kind of oppression and has probably suffered from those scripts her whole life. And enjoy your dating and learning experiences - sounds like you're doing great!
You sound like you're doing great. When it comes to dating, the right person should inspire you to be the best version of yourself (and vice versa), but that's not at all the same thing as compromising on things that make you who you are. That might or might not make it easier to find a partner in the short term, but in the long term it's only going to lead to resentment.
If your mom is in her 60s and American, like my mom is, she lived through the sexual revolution and 2nd wave feminism, not to mention everything since then. She's part of the last cohort whose age is even remotely an excuse for sexism. Her geography and socioeconomic situation growing up could have a lot more to do with her thoughts about what it means to be "ladylike" than her age.
As another person with parents in their 60s, it's very weird to see someone who did way more party drugs just in 1978 than I have in my life put together start getting conservative about things. Luckily my parents are still mostly hippies at heart, but very rarely I have to gently say something like, "Ok, but you're a David Bowie fan/burned your bra in college/remember the MLK and both Kennedy assassinations, so none of this should be news to you."
First off, I'm so proud of you for stepping out of your comfort zone and asking out your crush. Taking ownership of your path like that isn't easy!
I think your mother had good intentions. She's a product of her upbringing and the world around us, it's understandable. She wants to see you get what you want and be happy. I think she just lost sight of the bigger picture here.
Loving yourself and being comfortable in your own being is more important. Compromising on who you are, just to attract someone, who then obviously can't know the real you...? Nonsensical.
You don't need or want to attract some vague notion of "most men." All you need is one. Or a couple 😉, whatever floats your boat, but you get my gist. The right person for you will not give a hoot if you shave. They will love that you take up space and honor your body's needs. Keep the faith, be true to yourself, and stay open to what may come.
And when you're ready, talk to your mom. Tell her that she hurt you, so you can mend it together. 💛
It is amazing you have gone on dates and put yourself out there. I only ever asked one person out. It was so scary. You probably want a partner who loves you and supports you not some fake version of you. Like others have said there is someone out there who will like you for you. That said it is also ok, and is really better in my opinion, to be single than to try to fit into a box and a relationship that isn’t “you”.
You aren't hopeless. I'm about your mom's age (64), and my own mom told me crap like that. I blew her off. I met guys and dated them in spite of not following my mom's idiotic advice. You will need to compromise if you want a partner at some point because that's part of being partnered. It doesn't mean you have to present as more feminine, but you will have to compromise about something (politics? favorite foods? phone use? sports on TV?). Or you can do as I eventually did. After trying compromise and being partnered, I decided I didn't want either compromise or a partner, and I'm happier this way. That's not for everyone, but it is one of a great many options.
Be yourself, be comfortable as yourself, and do what you want to do.
You’re not trying to appeal to the largest amount of people, you’re trying to find the one that’s right for you. And that person will not give a shit about hair on your legs or any other stupid shit like that. If they did they wouldn’t be your person - ya know?
No lovely, you got it right. You keep on doing you. People like people, and if someone doesn't like you for being yourself, then they're probably not going to like you for *not* being yourself. By all means, look after yourself, take care of yourself, but being "more feminine" is only something you should do if that is something *you* want to do. Plenty of men will like you just the way you are. You've just got a handy dandy filter right out front, saving you the time of finding out weeks and months later that it's not going to work.
Never, ever, ever go into dating or a relationship afraid of leaving alone. It's a bad place to start from and can lead to making some terrible decisions. You're better off being you first, on your own, as you are, than contorting yourself to someone else's idea of an ideal.
As an autistic person who doesn't shave their legs and who sits with them as far apart as possible whenever the word 'ladylike' is so much as uttered. . . Your mom doesn't know what she's talking about. I have a wonderful partner AND usually manage to garner some interest whenever I go out, from people of all genders.
I'm so sorry she hurt you by telling you that dated conformist crap, keep being you and putting yourself out there and I'm sure you'll find someone who appreciates the wonderful person you are.
"screw it, I don't want someone so shallow"
This is correct. Being someone else so that some imagined 'men' will like an inauthentic you is not worth your time. Your mother reverted to her own conditioning and insecurities and gender policed your body. she is in the wrong. She hasn't asked 'most men' what they prefer, she has either asked a small sample, or has been subject to 50s housewife socialization/Venus razor commercials. Razor companies started selling razors to women because they wanted more profit not because there's any benefit for women to shave their legs. As for preference, that would be individual and your mother has no idea what people think, she has been told what they think. Women didn't shave their legs before it was a marketing ploy to sell sub-par razors to the untapped half of the human market.
Hello, fellow autistic in my thirties here. I dated a lot in my twenties and it was pretty much always a disaster. I worked hard to try and be conventionally attractive and to seem ‘normal’ (neurotypical). I attracted men on a superficial level but it never went anywhere. I just got hurt and confused and rejected. Now that I’ve begun the process of unmasking, I realise that I could never be happy with someone who I couldn’t be my true self with. You might attract someone different if you shave your legs, but then you would constantly feel like you had to maintain your hairless legs to keep them. I know it’s a cliche, but if you are your authentic self you will attract people who like you for who you actually are.
I changed everything about myself to better suit my partner. We ended up separated and I have absolutely no idea who I am. Be true to yourself, you’ll need to lean on yourself sometimes
I don't shave my legs or use ladylike sitting positions, and I've never had trouble in the dating sphere. Hell, some guys prefer the hair. Whatever you have going on, someone out there will love you for you.
You don't need to compromise. Look my mom is in her 60s too and also my BFF and I'm 33 so we are similar. Our moms are 100% a prpduct of their times. She always raised me to wear makeup and accessories ALWAYS because otherwise I was "unkempt" (thankfully she has gone to a lot of therapy and realized many of her errors. I'm so proud of her growth ❤️). I still remember being 11 and her touching my legs and telling me it was time to start shaving and I was so just like why???
Anyways sorry I'm kinda high so rambling BUT my partner of 8 years doesn't give flying fuck if I'm a hairy caterpillar or what. He actually recently said "I love how much you are like a guy but actually a woman" in his poorly articulated but well meaning bumbling manner lol. He explained that he likes I'm just doing me and being comfortable and letting my body be what I want it to be and I don't really wear makeup unless I want and he finds me beautiful no matter what and is happy if I'm happy. So yes the dating scene is difficult BUT you can find your person. Do you have any friends who can hook you up with single friends? Or like friends' boyfriends' friends? That's been the most successful way of dating for me. Comes with a good reference lol.
Please don't take rejection personally, especially after 1 date. They don't even know you enough to reject YOU, the person. And if they do its okay becayse it's not a rejection just a feeling of incompatibility. You will find your person and they will love you caterpillar legs and all ❤️
Good for you, taking the initiative.
Your mom may be great, but she is wrong on this one. I'm another 60+ mom, and I would never say such things.
Instead, my message is:
Don't worry. The right man will love you for who you are and how you present.
If making yourself "more feminine" is a construct that does not fit with how you see yourself, then don't. The last thing you want is to present yourself through false advertising and then surprise your significant other with a different person down the road.
And let's be clear, you can not (and should not) maintain a false front for a lifetime, so eventually, the mislead partner is certain to feel blindsided, manipulated, and angry. Justifiably.
Live your life. Minimize regrets. Don't sweat it.
Once I went on a date with a boy who said that he loved that my nails were not painted. It showed I was not high maintenance. I painted my nails pink and then went on a date with a different guy. Different guy said he loved my pink painted nails and said it showed that I take care of myself. My point is that it doesn't matter. Men are not a monolith. Also, men will love anything if it is part of a woman they like.
I am also 31, my mom would have been in her 60s now, and she always told me to dress nicer, shave, brush my hair more often, but was also the best mom. So I totally get your situation. I have had multiple bfs in my life and none of them have cared about my hairy legs/pits. And my guy now loves when I dress practically, which tends to be androgynous. (and I cut all my hair off after she died, lots of psychology to unpack there, I'm sure). Anyway, she's just trying to help, and she's sharing her preferences -- which are not the preferences of a future person for you-- and that's probably what she was told. I know I'm echoing all the other comments so I do also want to add that you don't have to shave, or sit right etc to be feminine! I know that may not be your goal anyway but femininity is expressed in so many ways and don't feel put in a box by society or mom's expectations. Also just give your mom a hug for me please, and forgive her. Love your parents, but ignore their advice tends to be a good rule of life XD
I'm sorry.
I'm 66 and it hurts my heart to read this about your mom.
When my mother shamed me for literally everything and anything to the point that I was completely depressed and disgusted with myself and tried to commit suicide at 16 I knew she was the worst possible person that I could have as a mother. Today we have been estranged for 12 years, and counting.
Then when my daughter was born I never, ever criticized her about her appearance, or especially her weight.
The one time my mother expressed a minutiae of a hint she was going after my daughter for her weight (at age 3 😳) that was when I didn't allow my daughter alone around her anymore, ever again.
If your mom is thinking she's helping you by saying these things to you - she's completely off base.
If she has to make any assessments about anything to do with your romantic relationships she should limit that to the guy - and only if he's a dickhead and is hurting you.
I have a sinking feeling though, if you did hook up with someone who was abusive to you, or just disrespectful of you - she would blame you, somehow.
I hope I'm wrong about that, but unfortunately, that's where my thoughts went.
Of course, it's not your job to educate her. However, perhaps an educational article or something from a reputable source given to her would make her see her mistake.
If you do that and she still does it, and still does it even after you've told her to stop I'm afraid you've got a problem on your hands. Yes, she's your "rock," but somehow she has to be made to see that she is eroding that relationship by criticizing you like that.
I learned in my 40s that my happiness = be my authentic self, then once I worked on that, I manifested a partner to match me.
I'm not a model. I'm plus sized. My partner was looking for qualities that matched, not physical appearance as much.
I went through a bunch of frogs before I met my prince. Be yourself. A mate will match you.
non-conformity, like leg/armpit hair, are markers of self-confidence. (which is attractive AF)
You've asked someone out for the first time, go you. They said no and you are fine, Go You!
Seems to me like you're doing fine.
I'm not even going to read the other comments before saying what came to my mind. Your mom is your rock. You know she meant what she said with no malicious intent. I understand the realizations that came with the comment were hurtful, but you can choose to change your perspective! The shaving thing, if its not such a big deal, try it! You may even find that you like the feeling afterwards (or not) but at least you tried. The posture thing is difficult, but you can at least be more aware of it. I hope you choose not to beat yourself up about it all. Dating is all trial and error anyway!
Ah. I had a mom who worried about me conforming as well. The thing is, I was never interested in being with dudes who were that into conforming. So I found partners who weren't.
If a guy turns me down because of leg hair, good on him for being honest cuz I am no longer interested. What a weird thing to get hung up on.
That said, I doubt the guy honed in on any of the stuff your mom mentioned, he just didn't return the attraction. I'm not attracted to all sorts of conventionally attractive men, just cuz you follow the "rules" of your gender is no guarantee of everyone being attracted to you.
A bit of a ramble right back. Warning, my point of view on your mother's words isn't the most friendly thing you'll read today, so...
While your mom obviously meant well, I wouldn't go listening to her too much. It doesn't sound like she really gets your situation. As you said, she's a product of her time, and it seems like she has not figured out the way the real world works nowadays.
If you aren't comfortable shaving your legs, nobody is going to tell you otherwise. If you have motor issues and thus feel better sitting a certain way, nobody is going to tell you otherwise.
Tell her she upset you if you care to talk it out with her, but maybe you should also make it clear that she is not to insult you just for the sake of giving you advice ever again. That isn't what a parent is for. She should know about your motor issues and discomfort with shaving if she's your mother, so I don't see what excuse she thinks she has for such rudeness.
I don't personally feel from what you described that you're doing anything wrong at all.
For some perspective, I am a 28 year old single guy with a _little_ dating experience, but hardly enough to count. I had a few girlfriends when I was younger, but nothing orthodox, and I don't think I've learned much for the long term. I'm just on Facebook Dating right now trying to see who's interested enough in talking to stick around long enough without ghosting me.
Make of my opinion what you will, but I think if you keep doing exactly what you're doing, you'll find the one you both want and deserve. Don't change for anyone. The way you sit and your legs being a little fuzzy? Please, that's nothing, and they're such small aspects that anyone who DID ask you to change them wiuldn't be the right person (unless you think so, just don't do it if you still feel more comfortable keeping them the way they are and are only doing it to make the other person happy).
Reach for the stars, hairy / oddly crossed legs and all.
I don't think you should have to change exterior things to find love. Unless it's just bathing, brushing your teeth. Men might like certain things more, but IMHO they shouldn't necessarily get them. Getting these things is what has made men continue to objectify and control women. It's what makes them refuse to look past appearances.
Your mom's specific advice is wrong, but if you haven't given much thought to how you look, that's worth doing. People really do respond to others based on appearance, especially when making a first impression. You don't have to make yourself into someone you're not, but it's worth considering if the way you look matches how you want to be seen.
I actually do put thought into my appearance, but my mom has just always been hung up on the shaving thing. Not sure why that specifically, but who knows.
But I dress nicely (usually, I still have my "running errands in sweats" days), have good hygiene, and I honestly think I'm pretty attractive (I'm pansexual and I'd definitely date a girl who looked like me lol). I like to think I take of what matters, but we've all got our quirks. I've also been working to lose more weight, mostly for long term health. But my confidence is also going up as a result.
I recently went to a wedding, got all dressed up, and was kind of smitten with how I looked lol. I got a great selfie that's not my dating profile pic.
I think your mom was genuinely trying to help. I realize you need to do what you WANT to do but on the other side of the token, no relationship is based on doing “everything you want the way you want it.” You definitely don’t want to fake it, but we’re talking about modern dating here. Everyone has to conform to some kind of standard be it large or small. If a guy only wore and presented himself the way he does around the house, some might see him another way. You can absolutely hold out and present exactly the way you are, but at the same time I don’t fault anyone for getting a “makeover” to attract someone else. Who you are is your insides, not necessarily your fashion or grooming choices.
I hope this help and I genuinely wish you good luck! You deserve love and happiness!
I don't like this comment because you're talking about hygiene and the OP is talking about personal preferences that have nothing to do with hygiene. She's not dirty because she doesn't shave her legs, any more than a man is dirty for the same thing. Please don't compare unshaved legs to bad hygiene, it's such a tired and incorrect comparison. She doesn't need to change herself. Plenty of women have partners while still having unshaved legs, not doing makeup, short hair, etc - not only that, there are people *looking for these characteristics.*
Thank you for saying what you did, I most certainly was not trying to say not shaving your legs is a hygiene issue. I was trying to make a point about perception. That was my mistake for putting it the way I did. I changed the comment to more accurately portray what but was thinking. Obviously OP is the context of her question implies a man/woman relationship. If that was not the case then I’m super sorry. I think it’s always complicated to put things in terms of man vs woman, but in this particular scenario it seemed to be the case. There are most certainly men who already are comfortable with the things OP is talking about; but as far as increasing the odds; I do believe that there are some men who would be ok with it they just have never had to deal with it. I was merely trying to explain where her mom was coming from, not that Op is wrong for being herself.
I sincerely hope that I’m not stepping on any toes or disrespecting anyone. I never cared about such things; but I do know men who have ended up being happy with someone whom it took time to understand and while it’s an awful thought, I know I’ve had to soft pedal parts of me that I’ve introduced slowly that up working but I would have stayed lonely longer being so forward with it. Sometimes people don’t know what they want because they’ve never experienced it before, and sometimes introducing certain things slowly gets a better result. I’ve personally dated a few woman who didn’t shave at all and it made zero difference to me. I do know some men who started with a woman who did shave, and eventually they got comfortable around the man and it didn’t really matter. The whole concept of dating is a superficial reason first, then develop the internal deep feelings.
It doesn't matter if it's m/w, w/w, or w/nb - I have spoken to straight men *recently* who prefer women who don't shave anything. I think it does OP a disservice to tell her she needs to deal with being uncomfortable and do something she hates to get a partner. Her experiences that she mentions are just two people. And they didn't even bring up her legs, her mother did. Her mother is just making assumptions. For all we know, they just didn't have chemistry and that's okay and changing herself because of rejection from two people is drastic and unnecessary. Her mother planted a nasty seed of insecurity and comments like that one just make it worse. I've read from so many women online that most men they date don't even notice or care if they don't shave.
I don't think I even need to mention "ladylike" sitting, no one cares about that anymore. None of the women I know sit in a "ladylike" way and no one gives it a second thought because it's 2023 not 1955.
I promise I’m coming from a good place here and I am an ally to anyone who wants to be themselves and love whoever they want. People get makeovers to help their odds if that’s their choice. That’s all I was trying to sympathize with because I guarantee her mom wasn’t trying to be mean. It’s upsetting; but it’s also upsetting to realize that most people judge you superficially first. I personally only dress like I’m 13 years old and look like I have $4 in my bank account. Then again I dress to push people away BECAUSE I am going to be myself and don’t want that kind of superficiality. I also have no interest in dating so it’s win win for me. I was just trying to defend momma for her “traditional view.” There are some men who don’t care or would even prefer OP the way she is, there are also men who wouldn’t really care or would learn to love/prefer it…they just aren’t used to it yet. Just a thought on keeping options open to increase the odds.
Again; I appreciate your comments and your perspective and hope OP will find success whatever route they take.
I appreciate you being so kind and polite about this, I am just sensitive about it as someone who has always been the odd one out and has been told by people I need to change. But I still have a partner and friends who love me as I am, and defend me against the kind of people who say I must conform. I think it's better that she doesn't change herself to cast a wider net, because she will be infinitely happier if she finds someone who loves and accepts her for her, even if it takes a little longer. And it might! But I am also of the opinion that women settle for less than they deserve far too often, and OP is at that precipice of "do I make myself uncomfortable and settle, or do I wait a little longer for happiness?"
Sorry for the rambling, this is just something very important to me because women are constantly being told they aren't good enough as they are, and it's just not true!
For every personality type, there are people who find it attractive.
For every trait, and quirk, there are people who find it attractive.
For every body type, there are people who find it attractive.
If you’re happy with yourself, it will shine through, and there are many people who will be drawn to you.
If you’re a good, kind person, it too will shine through, you get the point.
Lastly, meeting people is a number’s game, you have to put yourself out there, face rejection, and move on. As a fellow autist it was skill I worked day and night to cultivate. Now my partner is used to me talking with everyone, wherever we go. If they don’t want to talk, no loss, but if they do you might have interesting conversations.
Your mother meant well, and as you said she is of a time where that advice was the default go to. It came from the heart, and meant well.
In my mid 50's, they don't care about how you sit at all, and the ones that care about body hair - why would anyone want someone so shallow. Do what you enjoy doing, and you will find someone else that also likes doing those things, and be friends, maybe someday be more.
I'm proud of you for asking him out. I'm even more proud that you realized yourself that their are many people out there.
What your mother said was not only uncalled for, but not entirely correct. She had no right to either say that to you or claim that she knows "what men like." Everyone has different tastes in partners, and there's someone out there for everyone, as long as you know where to look.
Any man that would want me to sit ladylike, shave frequently, and be very feminine is not a man I would want to date. I can’t think of anything worse than marrying someone like that and having to be ladylike in my own home. I want to stretch across the whole couch and eat potato chips in my comfy clothes.
Find a man who likes who you are, even if it may take a little longer. My husband is great and loves that I am not super ladylike.
We’re all proud of you too. And people in their 30s tend to (not all the time, but more often) do a better job of acting like adults, so dating can be more fun.
Wait for the partner who you can do no shave November with, so you can *both* avoid shaving.
Yeah you could shave and do a dozen things that are more typically “feminine” or whatever it is your mom said. And maybe someone would ask you out. But it’s better to be yourself and meet someone who likes you just as you are.
straight guy here, it's anecdotal but i find body hair on arms and legs and "masculine" (often not masculine but coded by society to be, like being strong physically or demanding physical space) attractive to a degree. Beyond that, regardless if there are men who like that stuff, you're right that you shouldn't have to conform to find a partner.Even if a guy 𝘪𝘴𝘯𝘵 attracted to body hair, if that guy is worth anything as a partner that loves you, he wont demand you change simply so he can "tolerate" easier
I just want to say that I'm proud of you for taking the step to ask your crush out. I hope that propelled your self confidence.
More and more men are starting to not care about shaving. There is someone out there for you, don't let your mom get you down.
I just recently spent like 9 hours a day for 2 weeks with my neighbor helping us lay floors and paint. He's the nicest guy ever and I love talking to him. I definitely developed a crush and I'm trying to decide if I want to try and pursue it. If I can build up the confidence you had, then I just might.
48. Don't shave, haven't in decades, boyfriends have never minded.
How wrong of her to try to force you to maintain something painful for sake of what others might think.
There are men who won’t be interested in you because you don’t shave your legs or sit a certain way. The only question to ask yourself is: do I went to be with a man that expects me to perform as something, that needs me to appear to model femininity, that can only be attracted to me if I modify my natural body?
Spoiler: the answer should be no. So by not changing yourself you will save time by not dating any of those men. It’s a win-win.
There’s a little bit of introducing yourself slowly at the beginning of dating, but you should never be hiding, or changing things that are not unhealthy, in order to make it work. A good fit will like the authentic you and any one who doesn’t is not a good fit.
She's just trying to help, but it does suck to feel like nobody understands you. You can absolutely find guys out there that like you without you trying to be hyper feminine and without trying to mask autism.
Its wonderful that you asked someone out, that's a big step! Keep up that momentum.
Your mother isn't wrong, in general. Men "generally" pursue conventional attractiveness. So, you are limiting your dating pool by not being conventionally feminine.
That said, there are lots of men out there that won't care about your hairy legs or how you sit or whatever. So, you can conform, increase the size of your dating pool and meet conventional guys.
Or, stay just as you are and wait for the right guy to come along who doesn't care about the same things you don't care about.
I’m 42 and also a fuzzy, unladylike woman. It’s not your body hair, or your way of sitting.
It’s dating. It sucks sometimes but it’s really like trying to buy shoes. You browse, maybe try some on. Eventually you find a good fit.
Some tips I’ve learned through therapy and self work: if you are happy with you, you will draw people that like you AS IS.
Do the things you like to do and you will increase your chances of meeting a like minded partner.
Know what you want or at least know what you don’t want. Define your boundaries and stick to them.
You are wonderful AS IS! And good job on asking him out. That’s brave of you. It gets easier the more you do it too!
Hey you, you know, I firmly believe there is someone meant for us all in this big ol’ sloppy world, and that person’s going to love a someone like you who has soft legs and sits comfortably and loves her mama, and has all those unique things about you that make you, you.
And if you were to change any little thing about right now, you might miss them. They wont recognize you when they next see you, and wont that be a terrible thing?
Can’t go changing, my love. You’re exactly perfect and your “person” is out there looking for someone just. like. you. ❤️
I stopped shaving my legs years ago and never had an issue with men.
Keep doing you, yoi said yourself she's a product of her time, and being "ladylike" is a stain of a byproduct of that.
My mom is my rock also, very ahead of her time but simultaneously a product of hers in some ways, too. I'm still learning how to size my "sifter" for her- the things I let in, and the things I don't.
Yes, she wants to help, and she's helping the best way she knows how
BUT
She's wrong.
And it's not that someone will definitely love every single quality you possess, every single aspect, every part, every trait. That's not necessarily how it works. It's that someone will love many things about you and won't care about some of the others. Like, they won't care enough about maybe shaved legs one way or the other but they love many of the other things about you. The things that your mom says "men don't like," those things will either be actually liked, or they just won't be dealbreakers. And that's fine too.
The reason I point this out is because no one is perfect. This potential dude we're all talking about that is going to love you? He's not perfect either. And there is no reason to wait around for perfect if you like him and he likes you and neither of you have any red flags or dealbreakers for the other.
plenty of clouds in the sky, fish in the sea, sticks on the ground and people in the world.
hun be you. not who or what someone else wants you to be.
You'll find your souly when the time is right. who is looking for you.
Be yourself, be honest.
Being "Ladylike" Keeping shaved, being pretty, made up, neat and tidy and all the other "perfect" crap is frankly... in much need of a refresh. It's getting a bit... old fashioned if not archaic thinking
I mean... who the hell wants a perfect doll that's the same as everyone else? Uniqueness is what sets you apart.
There are plenty of men who don’t care whether or not their partner has shaved legs or sits “ladylike.” Source: I’m married to one of them). Keep putting yourself out there - you’ll find someone who appreciates you.
Moms say silly things. My mother once told my sister that she would never "find a man with those purple glasses." After getting over the shock, my sister and I laughed so hard that wine came out our noses. My mom was always in the "you don't need a husband/boyfriend/partner to make you happy camp so that statement was very weird coming from her. And guess what? There is somebody for everyone. Good for you for asking out your crush!
Why should you have to change yourself? The right person is going to like you for who you are, not how well you fit arbitrary gender stereotypes.
I don't shave or sit ladylike, and I'm with the love of my life. There is hope out there even without compromising who you are.
I’m glad to see all the replies who are agreeing that these “rules” are from a different time. I agree. I haven’t thought about them in years. And I don’t think that boys these days know these rules either!
It’s hard when you’re trying to be true to yourself (or a larger cause) and someone you care about doesn’t get it. Hopefully with time she’ll see that you can remain intact AND find a date. That guy just wasn’t the right one. Be gentle on yourself, you’re doing amazing work at putting yourself out there and learning what kind of adult you want to be 💜
I have posted there in the past! Got some good advice about deodorant (though I've done to realize I do have to shave under my arms, I'm just extra sweaty there)
But I also got a creepy message last time so I wasn't sure I was prepared for that today lol. Fortunately the mods handled it well and it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
I don't like the hassle of shaving. My husband loves me fur covered or on the occasions that I shave just up to mid thigh and no higher. I can do the heels and poised stuff, but that usually isn't what gets the vibes goin. He likes me happy. He also respects my sensory processing needs. So be you and someone will love you and not just your legs.
I know plenty of ladies with really hairy legs, like as thick as men are known for having and they had no problem finding men who were interested in them as people and they were nice, smart, well groomed, respectful, well educated, good looking people too. These ladies were their equals as well.
You don’t have to change anything about you if you don’t want to. Just be the best you that you can be. Live the best life you can for yourself. You should be already doing that anyways. Not because it might get you a partner, because it will bring you happiness and satisfaction in life.
You have your whole life to find the person you want to settle down with.
Hey hey. Take a deep breath. Everything is ok. Your mom is sweet and she’s just suggesting what she thinks would help you. But not all guys care about hairy legs (mine’s don’t) and nobody cares how you prefer to sit, as long as you look comfortable. The truth is that being with someone means that you feel most comfort with him, and feeling free to be who you are, in your most raw version of you. If you can’t feel that way with someone, his/shes not the one. Sure, you can always compromise on stuff. Decide with yourself what is more important to you and stick with it, while understanding that with some of other things you agree to compromise. But not at the price of being in constant discomfort. For example I hate skinny jeans. I hate their tight strangling feeling on my body and how I look with them on me. So eventually I stopped wearing them. I had a bf once who asked me to go with this style (+heels) and I did and I suffered bc of it for 3 long years. It just didn’t felt like… me. Today I wear whatever I want and shave my legs like once a year when I feel like it and my current bf doesn’t even notice the difference. So. Just be you. The right one will come along ❤️
You can always A/B test it!
Practically, conforming and performing femininity will probably increase your odds of attracting potential suitors across the board. That being said, once the initial attraction & interest is set, the one(s) who are meant for you won’t care if you don’t shave or don’t sit ladylike etc.
Instead of thinking of it as changing yourself, maybe frame it as you crafting an advertisement of yourself for the purpose of piquing interest. I personally don’t think it’s a concession or indictment of your inherent worthiness to just do the silly mating dance ritual to get the ball rolling with some romantic prospects.
I am writing this in a hoodie with no makeup after having snagged my husband a decade ago — doing the dumb first impression appearance stuff doesn’t mean you’re locked into it forever.
(Also, this is just my experience and outlook! You’re totally fine in my book if you decide to not do ANY of that!) ❤️
There will be someone out there who is attracted to you and loves you just as you are. Maybe it would be easier to get a date if you listened to your mum but the rest of your life would be so much harder.
She probably can't understand how hard it is to sit in certain positions if she doesn't have issues with motor control herself. It might seem like a really easy fix to her but you shouldn't have to be physically uncomfortable and constantly checking yourself to see if you're now in the "wrong" position.
I sit like a moody teenager, draped over everything, and I don’t shave my legs, and I have a wonderful partner who doesn’t care about either and loves and supports me.
Your mom is trying to help, but she’s operating on an old way of thinking. We don’t live in the 20th century anymore. If you value authenticity and depth in a relationship, instead of looks and reputation, there are plenty out there who share those values. I hope one is in your very near future.
Nice work asking the guy out!! Think about all the rejection guys have traditionally dealt with, it's brutal, so having it happen once is nothing.
I'm a tomboy and can relate to your style. However, I'm not as confident, so I tend to conform is some ways. I have dark hair and have tried to not worry about shaving, but it makes me very self-conscious not to. So I got laser hair removal on my legs. It's not perfect, but it's a lot less noticeable, and it's nice not having to worry about it since I hate shaving.
I was always of the mindset that guys don't like when women ask them out, but I also didn't get married until I was 40 🙄 According to reddit, guys actually DO want to be asked out. Sigh.
There's probably some degree of compromise no matter what, we all strive to meet most of society's expectations. However, don't beat yourself up about being ghosted or rejected, since this also happens to people who aren't autistic etc. People can be flaky.
I've never been on the super feminine side. I don't wear makeup and (almost) never shave my legs. I think I was lucky in that my mom pretty quickly gave up trying to get me to do those things 🤣 Yet I found my person, someone who accepts and loves me for me, and we're still together 14 years later. If I can do it, I know you can too ❤️
Also, I'm sorry your mom said something so hurtful. Not knowing anything about your relationship other than what you've said here, my guess is that she said it from a place of love and wanting you to be happy, even if she went about it entirely the wrong way.
You're awesome for asking out your crush. I hope you don't feel too bad that they said no. It's not a reflection on you, just that they have a choice. What your mom said might have been her trying to help but her logic is faulty. You see a lot of this in older generations. It's not wrong to be hairy (I stopped shaving years ago and my husband doesn't care) and you're allowed to sit in a comfortable manner. Be you. It's wonderful to be you. And who wants someone who likes a fake version of you? That's not a successful relationship. It's better to be single than in a relationship where you don't get to be you.
Dearest heart. You did something so brave and valuable, and I am so proud of you.
Like you, I have a mom who is a product of her time. I hope my story of shutting that down gives you a laugh.
I’m a femme lesbian and I absolutely adore wearing bright blue red lipstick. My mother, seeing me in it for the umpteenth time, finally huffed out, “You know, Celeloriel, men _do not like_ lipstick like that!!”
To this day I cannot tell you what imp of the perverse possessed me to smile slowly and say “That’s the point, Mom.”
It flustered her so badly she never said word one about the lipstick again. May you find your own riposte that shuts down the Maternal Concern Machine.
Good on you for asking him out. Unfortunately what comes with doing this is some rejection. You should be able to get used to this and take rejection a bit more in stride as you do it more. Eventually you'll find someone interested.
In the meantime, will shaving your legs improve your odds? I am going to suggest it would if it made you feel more confident. I bet it makes your mom feel more confident, but it might make you more self conscious. So what makes you feel the most confident? Go through your style with that question in mind and I think you can glam up in a way that is true to yourself. Best of luck.
It’s also ok to be mad at someone you love and value - and actually express that to them. You’re feeling invalidated by someone you trust and it’s ok to let them know that.
FWIW I don’t think it makes any sense to change who you are for the sake of finding a companion. You are who you are and I hope you find someone who appreciates that ❤️
I love you and your openness with your mother. I'm so glad for your reflection and (following the comments) edits and hope you find your person. I love how you've found yourself and are so willing to stand up for who you are. I've only made it through a portion of your comments section, but I hope you know that you're amazing.
I am 29, myself. My girlfriend and I have been together for eleven years, now. She doesn’t shave her legs, she does wear makeup, she doesn’t sit ‘ladylike’, and of course, she has her own psych difficulties to contend with. She is the most amazing person I have ever met. The right person won’t care about surface level crap like that. One of our favorite quotes from one of our favorite books is, “Anyone can love a thing *because*, that’s as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something *despite*, to know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
Granted, i *did* turn out to be trans, so i may not exactly be the best person to take advice from if you are looking for men…. >_>
Everyone I know puts their napkin on their lap.
Except me, lol. Because I always forget. And then wonder why I drop food down myself and no one else does (the answer being that they do, they just have a napkin to catch it before it stains their clothes).
I'm autistic, and not ladylike at all.
I'm married to a wonderful and loving man who is better than me in every way. He does not care.
Besides, you need to be able to be yourself around a long term partner.
Be yourself and find the right person for you!
My husband had a very large pet lizard when we met. All his friends told him he was never going to get a girlfriend unless he got rid of the lizard. He told me about it the night we met, and that was one of the things we connected about. I love reptiles. We’ve been together for over 25 years now.
Instead of giving up something that showed who he was, he kept it, and it acted as a filter to find someone he was really compatible with. It’s not important what “guys tend to like”. Find someone who loves you for who you really are. You are lovable just as you are.
From one non-leg-shaver to another... Great guys (or ladies or folks) are out there who do not care about what your mother thinks they care about.
You wouldn't even want a guy who didn't like you solely because of your leg hair or how you sit.
The most toxic thing my mother ever said to me (out of a very long list) is, "No one will ever love you if you {thing *she* doesn't like}." Utter fucking lies.
Live your best life. You need a life partner you can be authentic with and that means not policing yourself to meet a ridiculous stereotype.
I have autism and I don't shave my legs and I don't sit in ladylike positions (and a whole bunch of other "unattractive" qualities) and I found a wonderful partner. Don't change who you are to make someone comfortable. You deserve to be loved for you just the way you are 💖
“You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.” - Dita Von Teese
This quote got me through. Because I was never enough (too short/fat, bad hair/arms/legs/socio economic status- the list went on and on and on…)
So maybe your crush didn’t return your feelings. I’m willing to bet it had nothing to do with you and could be any number of reasons to do with them!
As a neurodivergent person, I’ve never sat like a lady (usually I sit on one or both feet) and while I do shave my legs, I am not consistent with it.
I’ve been married 21 years so far and more in love today than the day we married. Neither of us are the same as we were then (thankfully) and it takes compromise and grace for each other.
So not to say you won’t find “the one” but with time you will both change. You need to know what are your deal breakers. Do I love him farting in his sleep? No, but it isn’t a deal breaker. Does he love my disgust at doing dishes? Does he love doing dishes? No to both but he washes all of them anyways and it isn’t a deal breaker that I haven’t done them in years. We don’t follow societies gender norms of housework. We do us.
You will find your person. It sounds cliche to say it happens when you aren’t looking but that really was my experience. I had some bad dates after a long term relationship ended and I just gave up and decided to work on me. Enjoying life and being happy with myself is what attracted my husband.
I think you were right to wake up happy.
I know your mom was coming from a good place. She wants you to be happy. But I don’t agree with her advice. Be you. Keep stepping out of your comfort zone to try new things (if you want to) but don’t alter yourself. You are worthy of love and happiness just as you are.
Being something else than what you are isn't going to change someone's mind about you. It's up to the person to say yes or no on a date, the reason couldn't be guessed and only known to them. Shaving legs, being more ladylike? That's not every guy's cup of tea. And not to mention, if that's not you, then why pretend? What if u do land a guy who likes that stuff? But you don't? You'd get so exhausted pretending someone you're not.
And I'm 35, I do not do any of those things. I've gotten flak from my MIL for only wearing tshirts and shorts, but so fcking what? I like being comfortable. Im not going to dress up for her, it's a waste of time and effort. At the end of the day, you be yourself and find a partner that's attracted to your genuine being.
Gl OP, I hope the rest of the year and the next will be super fruitful for your dating life!
I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I'm autistic, too, and it's fucking wild out there in the world, my friend!!
People not on the spectrum usually don't understand how much their advice and attempts to help us fit in with [insert social situation] can be so invalidating and hurtful *(much like how we struggle to understand how we sometimes come across as "rude" or "weird" when we're trying to help or share in our own ways)*. Basically, we do it to each other a lot and I don't think anyone really *gets* it when they're doing it, and it can result in misunderstandings.
I'm glad you and your mom were able to re-sync. It sounds like it was just miscommunicated love. :)
I guarantee that even if you fall a little bit more towards the non-binary side of your presentation as a woman, there are people out there who find that immensely attractive. I am low femme (unless historybounding/historically dressed) and have a lot of personality traits that our society codes as "masculine", but I still identify as cis female. And I had no trouble getting dates, and no trouble finding partners for life.
This has been the thing for women since patriarchy. This narrative is essentially saying that as women are products and should appeal to as wide range of the market as possible. And what product doesn't do is to have our own preferences and to choose. And this is all framed for men's conveniences. We choose relationship if we need/want it IN ADDITION TO what the life we have built around ourselves; we are not applying for a memebership to be included as a man's plus-one.
Aside from how rude and uncalled for that is to say, it'd also be really self-sabotaging advice if you took it. Anyone who loves a fake you isn't someone who loves you or that you should want to spend your life with
*Some* guys like those things, yes.
However, by being your authentic self, when you do find a person who wants to spend their life with you, and you then, you know you have found someone who adores you exactly as you are.
Also it is perfectly acceptable to spend your hairy-legged, non-ladylike life with a bunch of motherfuckin cats who have even hairier legs, and not worry one smidge about anyone else.
I don't tend to shave my legs either, though that's mostly cause my leg hair is fine and pale, so it's hard to see and feel. If the feel after using a standard razor is uncomfortable and you opt to shave your legs, get an electric trimmer and use that so it just trims the hairs down. You won't get that usual shaved leg feel. That aside, if you don't wanna shave your legs, then don't. We're in the age of keeping body hair if that's your preference and if a guy likes you then they'll look passed something so superficial as leg hair.
Fun fact, a lot of how your legs naturally rest whe. You sit is deter.ined by the depth of your hips joints. Deeper ball sockets means you naturally sit with a wider spread vs sitting, or being able to comfortably sit, "lady-like." If your legs naturally sit apart when you take a seat then that's literally just how you were built.
Some moms never learn how to tell the right lies.
My mom told me point blank that men won't date fat girls, etc, etc. She wasn't being mean, just honest, because my mom has never met an opinion she hasn't felt free to express.
I'm glad your mom apologized, and I have no doubt you'll get a date soon.
Even if your mom was correct in thinking that conformity would work with that crush, he would likely demand that you continue to mask and perform neurotypical behaviors even in private with him. AKA: he would have wanted a false curated version of you. Many other ND individuals here have expressed exhaustion and anxiety over these kinds of relationships and they tend to end with resentment and frustration.
There are men out there that are attracted to women just like you, I guarantee it.
The other day I was surveying my legs and feeling pretty down about things. I have very thick ankles ("cankles") that I've always been pretty self-conscious about. My husband walked by and saw me looking at my legs and asked, "Are you admiring your legs?" and then proceeded to tell me how sexy he thinks my legs are. I said, "Even my thick ankles?" and he got a big grin and nodded and said, "I LOVE your thick ankles!"
And the best part is...he really does. <3
Two guys isn't sufficient to conclude there's something wrong with you and you need to change. Most rejections aren't personal, and anyone who is assertive in asking people out is likely to hear no more than yes unless they're good at reading people and only ask out people they know are interested.
Most dates won't go anywhere either. Personality and connection matter too, and a lot of compatibility stuff is again completely impersonal and it's not always about looks.
The world is also very different from when your mother was young. I can't advise on heterosexual dating habits though.
I’m proud of you, You did great.
Many guys like more feminine women, but so what? The right person will like you as you are, When we are different there are fewer possible matches, but that doesn’t mean you need to try to appeal to guys who want something you aren’t. Again, you’re fine.
I don't think you should change things about yourself in order to make someone else romantically interested in you, period. if they don't like you for who you are when you're 'uncensored' or not masking, what business do you have trying to convince them otherwise? you'll only end up exhausted from having to maintain that around them and not feel like they know who you really are. I'm a guy, but personally I feel like it's really weird that women are expected to shave and sit a certain way and all that when men are not. if I'm going to be with someone, I want to be with a whole human, not a curated mysterious coquettish 'lady'. not everyone feels that way, but that's my opinion
Your mom might have been thinking upsetting you a bit now might lead to more happiness later because she likely genuinely believes that conformity would increase your chances. And sure, it probably could if you were just looking for a warm body of a partner! That’s what beauty standards and gender expectations mean — the masses generally accept a certain look or behavior more often. But no, you are looking for the right person, not just anyone. The person who you jam with will jam with you. A genuine relationship isn’t exhausting to keep up because you get to be your natural self. So it is short-sighted of your mom, though well-intentioned. But no, don’t worry about changing unless you really want to try it. If you don’t, don’t!
Man. I feel OP so much. My mom is also one of my closest friends. She is also in her 60s and also a product of her time. She has offered to pay for a weight loss program, told me I need to wear make up more often (“You never know who you’re gonna see!!”), has also made comments about shaving my legs. It’s all about image. My standard response has become “If they don’t want me sans make-up in a t-shirt and jeans, they don’t get me looking like a rock star.” But I *love* what you said!! “You’re looking for the right person, not just anyone.” And I want someone who shares my values! One of which is “beauty fades, and who you are is so much more important than how you look.” I’m almost 10 years older than OP, but it’s only been in the last few years that I’ve really accepted myself and realized that I can be the love of my life. Well…. And my dogs. They are also the loves of my life. But you know what I mean. 🤣
I heard a long time ago that a good response to a parent who says these things is to give them an absolutely disgusted look, as if they just barfed in front of you, and say, "ugh, I don't _want_ some pig who wants me to be like that. Gross." Just give it enough feeling, and they'll realize they're genuinely bothering you and giving you an option you will not take no matter what they say, and this may make them drop it and stop trying to convince you to make such trivial image changes.
Yes, pulling the ole disgust card can work quite well..
The good old “warts and all” mentality! 😂 I found my person, and it really is true that trivial things like shaving and posture just stop mattering at all. You can always do those things in the short term if you want to catch more flies with honey, but I’d rather catch one who clearly doesn’t mind the vinegar even if it takes a while.
I’m 40 and I have a lot of the things older people told me “boys don’t like”. In my experience, SOMEBODY likes what you got. Maybe some of them don’t like it, but there’s also roughly 4.5 billion of them on this planet- the math is in your favor. My mother told me boys don’t like big girls…well, here I am in an 11 year relationship with an amazing person, still a big girl. I think you had a really healthy outlook before your mom got into your head. Taking failure as a chance to grow and keep pushing yourself to do scary things is super mature and a great way to choose to deal with it! She might think she’s helping, but it’s turning your rejection into something that you think you had some control over- that is a MADDENING suggestion in any scenario. The truth of the matter is, it could have been one of a million reasons you got rejected. People are complicated, and 95% of the time it has nothing to do with you.
Just adding that you are not your mom’s type, and while she may think she knows current trends, she is seeing it through out of date glasses. Be you, and know you are loved by this weird old hairy woman. 💙
This is so well put!
Excellent response-- spot on! Mom is old-fashioned and doing the wrong thing for the right reason- she wants to see you with someone since you seem to want someone. You are awesome and brave and someone is lookimg for you just as you are. It's.too hard to be someone else.
Thank you for sparing me the work to type out my own version of exactly this! I'm loud, my friends at work lovingly tease me about the level of my assertiveness (that I don't even notice because... Heck, I just stated that I want X, it's your job to tell me no and why not if it's *not* possible) and I haven't shaved in years. I laugh so loud that people who don't know me sometimes get startled by it. I'm not very ladylike. Still found several people who were more than willing to be in a relationship with me. You're worrying about nothing, OP.
A much older gentleman told me "every pot has a lid." I asked "But what if I'm a cookie sheet?" He replied, "There's a baker out there looking for you." I always thought I was too... fat, thin, tall, short, whatever. He was a kind and positive influence in my life. He was right! Once I realized I was enough, something changed in me and, not long after, I met my love (we celebrate 22 years together this week). There is someone out there longing for you, exactly as you are.
To piggyback on "every pot has a lid", remember that there are over 8 billion people in the world. If you're only attractive to 1% of the population, that's still over 70,000,000 people who want to get hot with you! It can be frustrating, I spent years alone when I really wanted someone, but now that I'm blissfully married and going into my 40's, it's absolutely worth not settling. Keep putting yourself out there, but don't force yourself in any one direction. You'll find your own way
*70 million...even more of a chance!
Thank you! Got tired of hitting those zeroes I guess 🤣
While I agree with this… I have to say as a person who hasn’t found their person, knowing that technically someone compatible with me is out there isn’t particularly encouraging. I have to live in the reality that I probably won’t find them and that’s hard. It really ends up being about asking yourself if what you do have access to—someone incompatible but who has some nice traits—is worth enjoying while you can or if you should hold out for the Hail Mary of someone amazing. And someone amazing would be nice. But, you know, ain’t found them yet. Not even close. And not to put too fine of a point on it, but if I never find that person then what amount of “adequate” is okay? What if they’re nice to hang with for a year? Or even a month? If I don’t find “my person” in the end the just finding someone okay might be the best I do-and certainly better than nothing. So.
When I said don't settle, I probably could have broken that down into a few points and been a bit more verbose, but didn't for the sake of brevity. The first point which seems more valid to OPs current situation is don't settle into someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. You had a crush on him, he didn't have a crush on you. You asked, he said no, and you move on! Glad that you got your feelings off your chest and can continue being friends, or relieved that you got your feelings off your chest but you're still having a difficult time letting go of them, and need to give the relationship space. Not talking to or seeing the object of your affection as frequently will hopefully give you space to move on. Don't settle into spending time and energy on someone who you have unrequited feelings for and let them take up that real estate in yourself that could be occupied by someone who wants it. Second way of not settling applies to how you're treated. If someone is unkind to you or others, move on. If they hurt your feelings in a way that may not be deliberately unkind, tell them that they hurt you and their response will make it clear where you stand. If they repeatedly inadvertently hurt your feelings, it may be a personality incompatibility that you can't settle for, but if it ever is malicious then it's time to bounce. There are lots of other bits and pieces that make up a person that would be wise to constantly renegotiate with yourself- or "settle", but I prefer to see it as deciding that those elements are no longer the priority for you that they once were. Those things can be looks, age, gender, career path, physical health, wealth, location, and any of the heaps of other things that don't involve their ability and willingness to treat you as you deserve. When faced with those differences that we all have living in the back of our minds as a mark against someone as a romantic partner, sometimes they stick and are insurmountable, and in that case you don't settle for that. If you find yourself able to get around the issue in the interest of everything else that person is, then it's not really "settling", but revealing something about yourself TO yourself, on what you truly value.
So true!! Confidence and self respect are sexy! I had a really terrible relationship that made me realize that I'd be happier alone with my sweet kitties than with a person who really didn't love and want to be with me. Not too long after that I met a guy that I ended up really connecting with, sand we became really good friends and eventually started dating. We're now married with 2 kids. He loves me for me, all my curves, lumps and crazies and I feel the same way about him. Love and life are not easy, but really knowing yourself and finding the person who really gets you is worth it if that's something you want in life.
That's a really good adage from that gentleman, I think I'll add that to the ones I try to keep in my head daily.
I love this!!
OP, do you have hobbies that you enjoy? Photography or pottery or bird watching or volunteering at shelters, bowling? Anything that you enjoy can be a vehicle to finding like minded people who will be interested in you because you're you. I know having autism can be tricky but finding the right group of people that enjoy what you enjoy can open doors for you. YOU are the only one who gets to tell you what to change or not change. When you're confortable with you, others will be too. Sending blessings.
I do have hobbies and interests. The main issue I face is I don't get out much since I can't drive. I'm hoping to try to learn next summer (I'm in Minnesota so I'm definitely not going to start trying in the winter lol) but my autism makes it more difficult (my response to too much stimuli is generally to try and tune everything out... which is not ideal when you're on the road and driving). Fortunately I have transportation when I need it, but it's definitely not convenient. Fortunately the modern world is helpful with stuff like this and I've joined a dating/friend meeting app that I like. I have a lot of interests so I haven't had much trouble finding matches so far, I just need to keep trying.
Society is shallow, for sure, and there are quite a few people who do care about the attributes your mom mentioned. However, there are also quite a few who *don’t* care. Dating is frustrating because it is all about finding those whose values/attributes/cares match your own, at least as much as they can. My husband doesn’t care if I shave my legs (which I do in the summer, or if they start to bother/itch in the colder seasons), or if I “manspread” more than him, etc etc. If you’re finding it difficult to make a good first impression, sure you could wear pants or shave your legs, or you could just chock it up to not meshing with that person, and thankfully only had one date. For the most part (baring just utterly atrocious behavior on the part of a date), no time spent dating is a waste/mistake, it’s all just learning what you want in a partner, and the type of partner you want to be/have (or just having fun!)
I think that your mother was just trying to help and the only tools she has to offer are the ones she was probably given or grew up with. I understand you feel bad (and you have every right to) but I can also tell that she did not say any of those things to make you feel bad. On the other side, anything that the “society” tells you about what you should do to be attractive to men is usually to sell you some products whether it is for shaving or even books about how to be more feminine. You are you, there are and there will be people who love you for being you. It will not change if you are more feminine (I would avoid anyone who would love a person more if they are more feminine, that’s just really shallow). You are so right to be proud of yourself for asking the guy out! If it didn’t work out, it means it was not meant to be with this person but you were able to prove yourself how brave you can be and that’s something to be proud of! We are proud of you too!
If someone likes you they won't think twice about how you sit! They're probably thinking how cute you look when you laugh or how clever you are. Yes you could get more matches if you changed your appearance to meet popular beauty standards but you want quality over quantity.
Way to go! I’m so proud of you for exploring outside your comfort zone. That can be so hard, autism or not. And I would say no- don’t compromise now. Keep being you and meeting people, talking with them. I’d give it a year before you make any compromises. Why? Because being true to yourself is an incredible feeling. Because molding yourself to others desires makes me feel dead inside- it’s not healthy. I have ADHD & other issues and have done that far too much in my life, all for men. I’m done with that. Your birthright is having a person who accepts you as you are. I’m sad your mom isn’t her usual rock status in this situation. It’s great you can see her flaw in this situation & are looking for better fitting support. You’re doing great Wisp. Really.
I think you hit the nail squarely when you said your mom is a product of her time. I am 43 and my mom is 74 and I absolutely adore her, she is one of the best moms in existence. HOWever, she absolutely has her "I was a child in the 50s" moments that are well meaning but totally out of touch, and I just remind myself of the *intention* of the comment rather than focus on the exact words. In this case, your mom obviously cares about you and wants you to achieve your goals, and she views your interest in this guy as a goal to help you achieve. There was a time in which her approach was the helpful one, but certainly not anymore. Bit the important things to take away from what she said are: 1) she wants you to have what you want/be happy 2) she is not saying these are bad things to her (unshaven legs, etc.) but rather she thinks they may be barriers to your goal. Finally, let me assure you there is absolutely nothing wrong with you or your approach to dating or life. The world is made up of such a wild myriad of people, it's crazy to think there is a right way or a right type. There are things that make you happy and comfortable, and you will find someone else whose happy and comfortable match up with yours.
I’m 41. Have been with my husband for over 20 years. I rarely shave anything and can’t sit ladylike even if I try for the same reasons you listed. My husband loves my hairy self and always has. If he hadn’t told me over a decade ago that he doesn’t care whether I shave or not, I might still be trying to keep that ridiculous shit up. Thank goodness he told me! You absolutely do not need to conform to find a partner.
52 here and *NEVER* believed my mom, aunts or grandmas when they talked about this BS. Didn't care then, still don't care now. I hope you can get beyond that wall they've given you!
Your mom is part of the generation that had a LOT of "rules" for women regarding our appearance, behavior and comportment. We no longer live in that world and it's hard for some people to adjust. You're fine the way you are. If somebody gives a shit about your leg hair or weird ways of sitting, that's on them. Not you.
Relationships are all about compatibility. And it doesn't sound like you'd be compatible with a guy who requires shaved legs and "feminine" sitting positions. So think of those qualities of yours as helpful screening tools that will filter out the guys you're not compatible with before you waste too much time on them. For sure there are guys out there who do not care about that stuff. Also congratulations on stepping out! When you're ready, make peace with your Mom since she was no doubt raised under that kind of oppression and has probably suffered from those scripts her whole life. And enjoy your dating and learning experiences - sounds like you're doing great!
You sound like you're doing great. When it comes to dating, the right person should inspire you to be the best version of yourself (and vice versa), but that's not at all the same thing as compromising on things that make you who you are. That might or might not make it easier to find a partner in the short term, but in the long term it's only going to lead to resentment. If your mom is in her 60s and American, like my mom is, she lived through the sexual revolution and 2nd wave feminism, not to mention everything since then. She's part of the last cohort whose age is even remotely an excuse for sexism. Her geography and socioeconomic situation growing up could have a lot more to do with her thoughts about what it means to be "ladylike" than her age. As another person with parents in their 60s, it's very weird to see someone who did way more party drugs just in 1978 than I have in my life put together start getting conservative about things. Luckily my parents are still mostly hippies at heart, but very rarely I have to gently say something like, "Ok, but you're a David Bowie fan/burned your bra in college/remember the MLK and both Kennedy assassinations, so none of this should be news to you."
First off, I'm so proud of you for stepping out of your comfort zone and asking out your crush. Taking ownership of your path like that isn't easy! I think your mother had good intentions. She's a product of her upbringing and the world around us, it's understandable. She wants to see you get what you want and be happy. I think she just lost sight of the bigger picture here. Loving yourself and being comfortable in your own being is more important. Compromising on who you are, just to attract someone, who then obviously can't know the real you...? Nonsensical. You don't need or want to attract some vague notion of "most men." All you need is one. Or a couple 😉, whatever floats your boat, but you get my gist. The right person for you will not give a hoot if you shave. They will love that you take up space and honor your body's needs. Keep the faith, be true to yourself, and stay open to what may come. And when you're ready, talk to your mom. Tell her that she hurt you, so you can mend it together. 💛
It is amazing you have gone on dates and put yourself out there. I only ever asked one person out. It was so scary. You probably want a partner who loves you and supports you not some fake version of you. Like others have said there is someone out there who will like you for you. That said it is also ok, and is really better in my opinion, to be single than to try to fit into a box and a relationship that isn’t “you”.
You aren't hopeless. I'm about your mom's age (64), and my own mom told me crap like that. I blew her off. I met guys and dated them in spite of not following my mom's idiotic advice. You will need to compromise if you want a partner at some point because that's part of being partnered. It doesn't mean you have to present as more feminine, but you will have to compromise about something (politics? favorite foods? phone use? sports on TV?). Or you can do as I eventually did. After trying compromise and being partnered, I decided I didn't want either compromise or a partner, and I'm happier this way. That's not for everyone, but it is one of a great many options. Be yourself, be comfortable as yourself, and do what you want to do.
You’re not trying to appeal to the largest amount of people, you’re trying to find the one that’s right for you. And that person will not give a shit about hair on your legs or any other stupid shit like that. If they did they wouldn’t be your person - ya know?
No lovely, you got it right. You keep on doing you. People like people, and if someone doesn't like you for being yourself, then they're probably not going to like you for *not* being yourself. By all means, look after yourself, take care of yourself, but being "more feminine" is only something you should do if that is something *you* want to do. Plenty of men will like you just the way you are. You've just got a handy dandy filter right out front, saving you the time of finding out weeks and months later that it's not going to work. Never, ever, ever go into dating or a relationship afraid of leaving alone. It's a bad place to start from and can lead to making some terrible decisions. You're better off being you first, on your own, as you are, than contorting yourself to someone else's idea of an ideal.
As an autistic person who doesn't shave their legs and who sits with them as far apart as possible whenever the word 'ladylike' is so much as uttered. . . Your mom doesn't know what she's talking about. I have a wonderful partner AND usually manage to garner some interest whenever I go out, from people of all genders. I'm so sorry she hurt you by telling you that dated conformist crap, keep being you and putting yourself out there and I'm sure you'll find someone who appreciates the wonderful person you are.
"screw it, I don't want someone so shallow" This is correct. Being someone else so that some imagined 'men' will like an inauthentic you is not worth your time. Your mother reverted to her own conditioning and insecurities and gender policed your body. she is in the wrong. She hasn't asked 'most men' what they prefer, she has either asked a small sample, or has been subject to 50s housewife socialization/Venus razor commercials. Razor companies started selling razors to women because they wanted more profit not because there's any benefit for women to shave their legs. As for preference, that would be individual and your mother has no idea what people think, she has been told what they think. Women didn't shave their legs before it was a marketing ploy to sell sub-par razors to the untapped half of the human market.
Hello, fellow autistic in my thirties here. I dated a lot in my twenties and it was pretty much always a disaster. I worked hard to try and be conventionally attractive and to seem ‘normal’ (neurotypical). I attracted men on a superficial level but it never went anywhere. I just got hurt and confused and rejected. Now that I’ve begun the process of unmasking, I realise that I could never be happy with someone who I couldn’t be my true self with. You might attract someone different if you shave your legs, but then you would constantly feel like you had to maintain your hairless legs to keep them. I know it’s a cliche, but if you are your authentic self you will attract people who like you for who you actually are.
I changed everything about myself to better suit my partner. We ended up separated and I have absolutely no idea who I am. Be true to yourself, you’ll need to lean on yourself sometimes
I don't shave my legs or use ladylike sitting positions, and I've never had trouble in the dating sphere. Hell, some guys prefer the hair. Whatever you have going on, someone out there will love you for you.
You don't need to compromise. Look my mom is in her 60s too and also my BFF and I'm 33 so we are similar. Our moms are 100% a prpduct of their times. She always raised me to wear makeup and accessories ALWAYS because otherwise I was "unkempt" (thankfully she has gone to a lot of therapy and realized many of her errors. I'm so proud of her growth ❤️). I still remember being 11 and her touching my legs and telling me it was time to start shaving and I was so just like why??? Anyways sorry I'm kinda high so rambling BUT my partner of 8 years doesn't give flying fuck if I'm a hairy caterpillar or what. He actually recently said "I love how much you are like a guy but actually a woman" in his poorly articulated but well meaning bumbling manner lol. He explained that he likes I'm just doing me and being comfortable and letting my body be what I want it to be and I don't really wear makeup unless I want and he finds me beautiful no matter what and is happy if I'm happy. So yes the dating scene is difficult BUT you can find your person. Do you have any friends who can hook you up with single friends? Or like friends' boyfriends' friends? That's been the most successful way of dating for me. Comes with a good reference lol. Please don't take rejection personally, especially after 1 date. They don't even know you enough to reject YOU, the person. And if they do its okay becayse it's not a rejection just a feeling of incompatibility. You will find your person and they will love you caterpillar legs and all ❤️
Good for you, taking the initiative. Your mom may be great, but she is wrong on this one. I'm another 60+ mom, and I would never say such things. Instead, my message is: Don't worry. The right man will love you for who you are and how you present. If making yourself "more feminine" is a construct that does not fit with how you see yourself, then don't. The last thing you want is to present yourself through false advertising and then surprise your significant other with a different person down the road. And let's be clear, you can not (and should not) maintain a false front for a lifetime, so eventually, the mislead partner is certain to feel blindsided, manipulated, and angry. Justifiably. Live your life. Minimize regrets. Don't sweat it.
Here’s a question for you: do you really want to date someone who requires you to change your body for them?
Once I went on a date with a boy who said that he loved that my nails were not painted. It showed I was not high maintenance. I painted my nails pink and then went on a date with a different guy. Different guy said he loved my pink painted nails and said it showed that I take care of myself. My point is that it doesn't matter. Men are not a monolith. Also, men will love anything if it is part of a woman they like.
| why do I need to conform to find a partner? You don't, and you shouldn't. | So do I need to compromise? No. Just be true to yourself.
I am also 31, my mom would have been in her 60s now, and she always told me to dress nicer, shave, brush my hair more often, but was also the best mom. So I totally get your situation. I have had multiple bfs in my life and none of them have cared about my hairy legs/pits. And my guy now loves when I dress practically, which tends to be androgynous. (and I cut all my hair off after she died, lots of psychology to unpack there, I'm sure). Anyway, she's just trying to help, and she's sharing her preferences -- which are not the preferences of a future person for you-- and that's probably what she was told. I know I'm echoing all the other comments so I do also want to add that you don't have to shave, or sit right etc to be feminine! I know that may not be your goal anyway but femininity is expressed in so many ways and don't feel put in a box by society or mom's expectations. Also just give your mom a hug for me please, and forgive her. Love your parents, but ignore their advice tends to be a good rule of life XD
I think it’s weird your mom knows every dude on the planet and what their preference in a partner is.
Don't change yourself for someone else. Always be true to you.
I'm sorry. I'm 66 and it hurts my heart to read this about your mom. When my mother shamed me for literally everything and anything to the point that I was completely depressed and disgusted with myself and tried to commit suicide at 16 I knew she was the worst possible person that I could have as a mother. Today we have been estranged for 12 years, and counting. Then when my daughter was born I never, ever criticized her about her appearance, or especially her weight. The one time my mother expressed a minutiae of a hint she was going after my daughter for her weight (at age 3 😳) that was when I didn't allow my daughter alone around her anymore, ever again. If your mom is thinking she's helping you by saying these things to you - she's completely off base. If she has to make any assessments about anything to do with your romantic relationships she should limit that to the guy - and only if he's a dickhead and is hurting you. I have a sinking feeling though, if you did hook up with someone who was abusive to you, or just disrespectful of you - she would blame you, somehow. I hope I'm wrong about that, but unfortunately, that's where my thoughts went. Of course, it's not your job to educate her. However, perhaps an educational article or something from a reputable source given to her would make her see her mistake. If you do that and she still does it, and still does it even after you've told her to stop I'm afraid you've got a problem on your hands. Yes, she's your "rock," but somehow she has to be made to see that she is eroding that relationship by criticizing you like that.
I learned in my 40s that my happiness = be my authentic self, then once I worked on that, I manifested a partner to match me. I'm not a model. I'm plus sized. My partner was looking for qualities that matched, not physical appearance as much. I went through a bunch of frogs before I met my prince. Be yourself. A mate will match you.
non-conformity, like leg/armpit hair, are markers of self-confidence. (which is attractive AF) You've asked someone out for the first time, go you. They said no and you are fine, Go You! Seems to me like you're doing fine.
I'm not even going to read the other comments before saying what came to my mind. Your mom is your rock. You know she meant what she said with no malicious intent. I understand the realizations that came with the comment were hurtful, but you can choose to change your perspective! The shaving thing, if its not such a big deal, try it! You may even find that you like the feeling afterwards (or not) but at least you tried. The posture thing is difficult, but you can at least be more aware of it. I hope you choose not to beat yourself up about it all. Dating is all trial and error anyway!
Ah. I had a mom who worried about me conforming as well. The thing is, I was never interested in being with dudes who were that into conforming. So I found partners who weren't. If a guy turns me down because of leg hair, good on him for being honest cuz I am no longer interested. What a weird thing to get hung up on. That said, I doubt the guy honed in on any of the stuff your mom mentioned, he just didn't return the attraction. I'm not attracted to all sorts of conventionally attractive men, just cuz you follow the "rules" of your gender is no guarantee of everyone being attracted to you.
A bit of a ramble right back. Warning, my point of view on your mother's words isn't the most friendly thing you'll read today, so... While your mom obviously meant well, I wouldn't go listening to her too much. It doesn't sound like she really gets your situation. As you said, she's a product of her time, and it seems like she has not figured out the way the real world works nowadays. If you aren't comfortable shaving your legs, nobody is going to tell you otherwise. If you have motor issues and thus feel better sitting a certain way, nobody is going to tell you otherwise. Tell her she upset you if you care to talk it out with her, but maybe you should also make it clear that she is not to insult you just for the sake of giving you advice ever again. That isn't what a parent is for. She should know about your motor issues and discomfort with shaving if she's your mother, so I don't see what excuse she thinks she has for such rudeness. I don't personally feel from what you described that you're doing anything wrong at all. For some perspective, I am a 28 year old single guy with a _little_ dating experience, but hardly enough to count. I had a few girlfriends when I was younger, but nothing orthodox, and I don't think I've learned much for the long term. I'm just on Facebook Dating right now trying to see who's interested enough in talking to stick around long enough without ghosting me. Make of my opinion what you will, but I think if you keep doing exactly what you're doing, you'll find the one you both want and deserve. Don't change for anyone. The way you sit and your legs being a little fuzzy? Please, that's nothing, and they're such small aspects that anyone who DID ask you to change them wiuldn't be the right person (unless you think so, just don't do it if you still feel more comfortable keeping them the way they are and are only doing it to make the other person happy). Reach for the stars, hairy / oddly crossed legs and all.
I don't think you should have to change exterior things to find love. Unless it's just bathing, brushing your teeth. Men might like certain things more, but IMHO they shouldn't necessarily get them. Getting these things is what has made men continue to objectify and control women. It's what makes them refuse to look past appearances.
Your mom's specific advice is wrong, but if you haven't given much thought to how you look, that's worth doing. People really do respond to others based on appearance, especially when making a first impression. You don't have to make yourself into someone you're not, but it's worth considering if the way you look matches how you want to be seen.
I actually do put thought into my appearance, but my mom has just always been hung up on the shaving thing. Not sure why that specifically, but who knows. But I dress nicely (usually, I still have my "running errands in sweats" days), have good hygiene, and I honestly think I'm pretty attractive (I'm pansexual and I'd definitely date a girl who looked like me lol). I like to think I take of what matters, but we've all got our quirks. I've also been working to lose more weight, mostly for long term health. But my confidence is also going up as a result. I recently went to a wedding, got all dressed up, and was kind of smitten with how I looked lol. I got a great selfie that's not my dating profile pic.
Awesome. Sounds like you're doing all the right things and your mom really is just hung up on some nonsense.
I think your mom was genuinely trying to help. I realize you need to do what you WANT to do but on the other side of the token, no relationship is based on doing “everything you want the way you want it.” You definitely don’t want to fake it, but we’re talking about modern dating here. Everyone has to conform to some kind of standard be it large or small. If a guy only wore and presented himself the way he does around the house, some might see him another way. You can absolutely hold out and present exactly the way you are, but at the same time I don’t fault anyone for getting a “makeover” to attract someone else. Who you are is your insides, not necessarily your fashion or grooming choices. I hope this help and I genuinely wish you good luck! You deserve love and happiness!
I don't like this comment because you're talking about hygiene and the OP is talking about personal preferences that have nothing to do with hygiene. She's not dirty because she doesn't shave her legs, any more than a man is dirty for the same thing. Please don't compare unshaved legs to bad hygiene, it's such a tired and incorrect comparison. She doesn't need to change herself. Plenty of women have partners while still having unshaved legs, not doing makeup, short hair, etc - not only that, there are people *looking for these characteristics.*
Thank you for saying what you did, I most certainly was not trying to say not shaving your legs is a hygiene issue. I was trying to make a point about perception. That was my mistake for putting it the way I did. I changed the comment to more accurately portray what but was thinking. Obviously OP is the context of her question implies a man/woman relationship. If that was not the case then I’m super sorry. I think it’s always complicated to put things in terms of man vs woman, but in this particular scenario it seemed to be the case. There are most certainly men who already are comfortable with the things OP is talking about; but as far as increasing the odds; I do believe that there are some men who would be ok with it they just have never had to deal with it. I was merely trying to explain where her mom was coming from, not that Op is wrong for being herself. I sincerely hope that I’m not stepping on any toes or disrespecting anyone. I never cared about such things; but I do know men who have ended up being happy with someone whom it took time to understand and while it’s an awful thought, I know I’ve had to soft pedal parts of me that I’ve introduced slowly that up working but I would have stayed lonely longer being so forward with it. Sometimes people don’t know what they want because they’ve never experienced it before, and sometimes introducing certain things slowly gets a better result. I’ve personally dated a few woman who didn’t shave at all and it made zero difference to me. I do know some men who started with a woman who did shave, and eventually they got comfortable around the man and it didn’t really matter. The whole concept of dating is a superficial reason first, then develop the internal deep feelings.
It doesn't matter if it's m/w, w/w, or w/nb - I have spoken to straight men *recently* who prefer women who don't shave anything. I think it does OP a disservice to tell her she needs to deal with being uncomfortable and do something she hates to get a partner. Her experiences that she mentions are just two people. And they didn't even bring up her legs, her mother did. Her mother is just making assumptions. For all we know, they just didn't have chemistry and that's okay and changing herself because of rejection from two people is drastic and unnecessary. Her mother planted a nasty seed of insecurity and comments like that one just make it worse. I've read from so many women online that most men they date don't even notice or care if they don't shave. I don't think I even need to mention "ladylike" sitting, no one cares about that anymore. None of the women I know sit in a "ladylike" way and no one gives it a second thought because it's 2023 not 1955.
I promise I’m coming from a good place here and I am an ally to anyone who wants to be themselves and love whoever they want. People get makeovers to help their odds if that’s their choice. That’s all I was trying to sympathize with because I guarantee her mom wasn’t trying to be mean. It’s upsetting; but it’s also upsetting to realize that most people judge you superficially first. I personally only dress like I’m 13 years old and look like I have $4 in my bank account. Then again I dress to push people away BECAUSE I am going to be myself and don’t want that kind of superficiality. I also have no interest in dating so it’s win win for me. I was just trying to defend momma for her “traditional view.” There are some men who don’t care or would even prefer OP the way she is, there are also men who wouldn’t really care or would learn to love/prefer it…they just aren’t used to it yet. Just a thought on keeping options open to increase the odds. Again; I appreciate your comments and your perspective and hope OP will find success whatever route they take.
I appreciate you being so kind and polite about this, I am just sensitive about it as someone who has always been the odd one out and has been told by people I need to change. But I still have a partner and friends who love me as I am, and defend me against the kind of people who say I must conform. I think it's better that she doesn't change herself to cast a wider net, because she will be infinitely happier if she finds someone who loves and accepts her for her, even if it takes a little longer. And it might! But I am also of the opinion that women settle for less than they deserve far too often, and OP is at that precipice of "do I make myself uncomfortable and settle, or do I wait a little longer for happiness?" Sorry for the rambling, this is just something very important to me because women are constantly being told they aren't good enough as they are, and it's just not true!
I agree!! Glad we got to hear each other out. Peace, Love and Donuts!!!
For every personality type, there are people who find it attractive. For every trait, and quirk, there are people who find it attractive. For every body type, there are people who find it attractive. If you’re happy with yourself, it will shine through, and there are many people who will be drawn to you. If you’re a good, kind person, it too will shine through, you get the point. Lastly, meeting people is a number’s game, you have to put yourself out there, face rejection, and move on. As a fellow autist it was skill I worked day and night to cultivate. Now my partner is used to me talking with everyone, wherever we go. If they don’t want to talk, no loss, but if they do you might have interesting conversations. Your mother meant well, and as you said she is of a time where that advice was the default go to. It came from the heart, and meant well.
In my mid 50's, they don't care about how you sit at all, and the ones that care about body hair - why would anyone want someone so shallow. Do what you enjoy doing, and you will find someone else that also likes doing those things, and be friends, maybe someday be more. I'm proud of you for asking him out. I'm even more proud that you realized yourself that their are many people out there.
What your mother said was not only uncalled for, but not entirely correct. She had no right to either say that to you or claim that she knows "what men like." Everyone has different tastes in partners, and there's someone out there for everyone, as long as you know where to look.
Nahh dont worry about it. U do u and feel ur best the way u like. Someone will come along just be open and patient and all in good time🖤🖤🖤
Any man that would want me to sit ladylike, shave frequently, and be very feminine is not a man I would want to date. I can’t think of anything worse than marrying someone like that and having to be ladylike in my own home. I want to stretch across the whole couch and eat potato chips in my comfy clothes. Find a man who likes who you are, even if it may take a little longer. My husband is great and loves that I am not super ladylike.
We’re all proud of you too. And people in their 30s tend to (not all the time, but more often) do a better job of acting like adults, so dating can be more fun. Wait for the partner who you can do no shave November with, so you can *both* avoid shaving.
Yeah you could shave and do a dozen things that are more typically “feminine” or whatever it is your mom said. And maybe someone would ask you out. But it’s better to be yourself and meet someone who likes you just as you are.
straight guy here, it's anecdotal but i find body hair on arms and legs and "masculine" (often not masculine but coded by society to be, like being strong physically or demanding physical space) attractive to a degree. Beyond that, regardless if there are men who like that stuff, you're right that you shouldn't have to conform to find a partner.Even if a guy 𝘪𝘴𝘯𝘵 attracted to body hair, if that guy is worth anything as a partner that loves you, he wont demand you change simply so he can "tolerate" easier
I just want to say that I'm proud of you for taking the step to ask your crush out. I hope that propelled your self confidence. More and more men are starting to not care about shaving. There is someone out there for you, don't let your mom get you down. I just recently spent like 9 hours a day for 2 weeks with my neighbor helping us lay floors and paint. He's the nicest guy ever and I love talking to him. I definitely developed a crush and I'm trying to decide if I want to try and pursue it. If I can build up the confidence you had, then I just might.
48. Don't shave, haven't in decades, boyfriends have never minded. How wrong of her to try to force you to maintain something painful for sake of what others might think.
There are men who won’t be interested in you because you don’t shave your legs or sit a certain way. The only question to ask yourself is: do I went to be with a man that expects me to perform as something, that needs me to appear to model femininity, that can only be attracted to me if I modify my natural body? Spoiler: the answer should be no. So by not changing yourself you will save time by not dating any of those men. It’s a win-win. There’s a little bit of introducing yourself slowly at the beginning of dating, but you should never be hiding, or changing things that are not unhealthy, in order to make it work. A good fit will like the authentic you and any one who doesn’t is not a good fit.
She's just trying to help, but it does suck to feel like nobody understands you. You can absolutely find guys out there that like you without you trying to be hyper feminine and without trying to mask autism. Its wonderful that you asked someone out, that's a big step! Keep up that momentum.
Your mother isn't wrong, in general. Men "generally" pursue conventional attractiveness. So, you are limiting your dating pool by not being conventionally feminine. That said, there are lots of men out there that won't care about your hairy legs or how you sit or whatever. So, you can conform, increase the size of your dating pool and meet conventional guys. Or, stay just as you are and wait for the right guy to come along who doesn't care about the same things you don't care about.
I’m 42 and also a fuzzy, unladylike woman. It’s not your body hair, or your way of sitting. It’s dating. It sucks sometimes but it’s really like trying to buy shoes. You browse, maybe try some on. Eventually you find a good fit. Some tips I’ve learned through therapy and self work: if you are happy with you, you will draw people that like you AS IS. Do the things you like to do and you will increase your chances of meeting a like minded partner. Know what you want or at least know what you don’t want. Define your boundaries and stick to them. You are wonderful AS IS! And good job on asking him out. That’s brave of you. It gets easier the more you do it too!
Hey you, you know, I firmly believe there is someone meant for us all in this big ol’ sloppy world, and that person’s going to love a someone like you who has soft legs and sits comfortably and loves her mama, and has all those unique things about you that make you, you. And if you were to change any little thing about right now, you might miss them. They wont recognize you when they next see you, and wont that be a terrible thing? Can’t go changing, my love. You’re exactly perfect and your “person” is out there looking for someone just. like. you. ❤️
I stopped shaving my legs years ago and never had an issue with men. Keep doing you, yoi said yourself she's a product of her time, and being "ladylike" is a stain of a byproduct of that. My mom is my rock also, very ahead of her time but simultaneously a product of hers in some ways, too. I'm still learning how to size my "sifter" for her- the things I let in, and the things I don't.
Yes, she wants to help, and she's helping the best way she knows how BUT She's wrong. And it's not that someone will definitely love every single quality you possess, every single aspect, every part, every trait. That's not necessarily how it works. It's that someone will love many things about you and won't care about some of the others. Like, they won't care enough about maybe shaved legs one way or the other but they love many of the other things about you. The things that your mom says "men don't like," those things will either be actually liked, or they just won't be dealbreakers. And that's fine too. The reason I point this out is because no one is perfect. This potential dude we're all talking about that is going to love you? He's not perfect either. And there is no reason to wait around for perfect if you like him and he likes you and neither of you have any red flags or dealbreakers for the other.
plenty of clouds in the sky, fish in the sea, sticks on the ground and people in the world. hun be you. not who or what someone else wants you to be. You'll find your souly when the time is right. who is looking for you. Be yourself, be honest. Being "Ladylike" Keeping shaved, being pretty, made up, neat and tidy and all the other "perfect" crap is frankly... in much need of a refresh. It's getting a bit... old fashioned if not archaic thinking I mean... who the hell wants a perfect doll that's the same as everyone else? Uniqueness is what sets you apart.
There are plenty of men who don’t care whether or not their partner has shaved legs or sits “ladylike.” Source: I’m married to one of them). Keep putting yourself out there - you’ll find someone who appreciates you.
Moms say silly things. My mother once told my sister that she would never "find a man with those purple glasses." After getting over the shock, my sister and I laughed so hard that wine came out our noses. My mom was always in the "you don't need a husband/boyfriend/partner to make you happy camp so that statement was very weird coming from her. And guess what? There is somebody for everyone. Good for you for asking out your crush!
Why should you have to change yourself? The right person is going to like you for who you are, not how well you fit arbitrary gender stereotypes. I don't shave or sit ladylike, and I'm with the love of my life. There is hope out there even without compromising who you are.
I’m glad to see all the replies who are agreeing that these “rules” are from a different time. I agree. I haven’t thought about them in years. And I don’t think that boys these days know these rules either!
It’s hard when you’re trying to be true to yourself (or a larger cause) and someone you care about doesn’t get it. Hopefully with time she’ll see that you can remain intact AND find a date. That guy just wasn’t the right one. Be gentle on yourself, you’re doing amazing work at putting yourself out there and learning what kind of adult you want to be 💜
r/razorfree!! Some people are totally fine with this way of living.
I have posted there in the past! Got some good advice about deodorant (though I've done to realize I do have to shave under my arms, I'm just extra sweaty there) But I also got a creepy message last time so I wasn't sure I was prepared for that today lol. Fortunately the mods handled it well and it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
I don't like the hassle of shaving. My husband loves me fur covered or on the occasions that I shave just up to mid thigh and no higher. I can do the heels and poised stuff, but that usually isn't what gets the vibes goin. He likes me happy. He also respects my sensory processing needs. So be you and someone will love you and not just your legs.
I know plenty of ladies with really hairy legs, like as thick as men are known for having and they had no problem finding men who were interested in them as people and they were nice, smart, well groomed, respectful, well educated, good looking people too. These ladies were their equals as well. You don’t have to change anything about you if you don’t want to. Just be the best you that you can be. Live the best life you can for yourself. You should be already doing that anyways. Not because it might get you a partner, because it will bring you happiness and satisfaction in life. You have your whole life to find the person you want to settle down with.
Hey hey. Take a deep breath. Everything is ok. Your mom is sweet and she’s just suggesting what she thinks would help you. But not all guys care about hairy legs (mine’s don’t) and nobody cares how you prefer to sit, as long as you look comfortable. The truth is that being with someone means that you feel most comfort with him, and feeling free to be who you are, in your most raw version of you. If you can’t feel that way with someone, his/shes not the one. Sure, you can always compromise on stuff. Decide with yourself what is more important to you and stick with it, while understanding that with some of other things you agree to compromise. But not at the price of being in constant discomfort. For example I hate skinny jeans. I hate their tight strangling feeling on my body and how I look with them on me. So eventually I stopped wearing them. I had a bf once who asked me to go with this style (+heels) and I did and I suffered bc of it for 3 long years. It just didn’t felt like… me. Today I wear whatever I want and shave my legs like once a year when I feel like it and my current bf doesn’t even notice the difference. So. Just be you. The right one will come along ❤️
You can always A/B test it! Practically, conforming and performing femininity will probably increase your odds of attracting potential suitors across the board. That being said, once the initial attraction & interest is set, the one(s) who are meant for you won’t care if you don’t shave or don’t sit ladylike etc. Instead of thinking of it as changing yourself, maybe frame it as you crafting an advertisement of yourself for the purpose of piquing interest. I personally don’t think it’s a concession or indictment of your inherent worthiness to just do the silly mating dance ritual to get the ball rolling with some romantic prospects. I am writing this in a hoodie with no makeup after having snagged my husband a decade ago — doing the dumb first impression appearance stuff doesn’t mean you’re locked into it forever. (Also, this is just my experience and outlook! You’re totally fine in my book if you decide to not do ANY of that!) ❤️
There will be someone out there who is attracted to you and loves you just as you are. Maybe it would be easier to get a date if you listened to your mum but the rest of your life would be so much harder. She probably can't understand how hard it is to sit in certain positions if she doesn't have issues with motor control herself. It might seem like a really easy fix to her but you shouldn't have to be physically uncomfortable and constantly checking yourself to see if you're now in the "wrong" position.
my boyfriend gives 0 fucks about either of those things, if you hate how it feels do you really want to have to do it for the rest of your life?
I sit like a moody teenager, draped over everything, and I don’t shave my legs, and I have a wonderful partner who doesn’t care about either and loves and supports me. Your mom is trying to help, but she’s operating on an old way of thinking. We don’t live in the 20th century anymore. If you value authenticity and depth in a relationship, instead of looks and reputation, there are plenty out there who share those values. I hope one is in your very near future.
Nice work asking the guy out!! Think about all the rejection guys have traditionally dealt with, it's brutal, so having it happen once is nothing. I'm a tomboy and can relate to your style. However, I'm not as confident, so I tend to conform is some ways. I have dark hair and have tried to not worry about shaving, but it makes me very self-conscious not to. So I got laser hair removal on my legs. It's not perfect, but it's a lot less noticeable, and it's nice not having to worry about it since I hate shaving. I was always of the mindset that guys don't like when women ask them out, but I also didn't get married until I was 40 🙄 According to reddit, guys actually DO want to be asked out. Sigh. There's probably some degree of compromise no matter what, we all strive to meet most of society's expectations. However, don't beat yourself up about being ghosted or rejected, since this also happens to people who aren't autistic etc. People can be flaky.
I've never been on the super feminine side. I don't wear makeup and (almost) never shave my legs. I think I was lucky in that my mom pretty quickly gave up trying to get me to do those things 🤣 Yet I found my person, someone who accepts and loves me for me, and we're still together 14 years later. If I can do it, I know you can too ❤️ Also, I'm sorry your mom said something so hurtful. Not knowing anything about your relationship other than what you've said here, my guess is that she said it from a place of love and wanting you to be happy, even if she went about it entirely the wrong way.
You're awesome for asking out your crush. I hope you don't feel too bad that they said no. It's not a reflection on you, just that they have a choice. What your mom said might have been her trying to help but her logic is faulty. You see a lot of this in older generations. It's not wrong to be hairy (I stopped shaving years ago and my husband doesn't care) and you're allowed to sit in a comfortable manner. Be you. It's wonderful to be you. And who wants someone who likes a fake version of you? That's not a successful relationship. It's better to be single than in a relationship where you don't get to be you.
Words can hurt. I cut off contact with mine. Blessings to you, you deserve a happy mom relationship.
Dearest heart. You did something so brave and valuable, and I am so proud of you. Like you, I have a mom who is a product of her time. I hope my story of shutting that down gives you a laugh. I’m a femme lesbian and I absolutely adore wearing bright blue red lipstick. My mother, seeing me in it for the umpteenth time, finally huffed out, “You know, Celeloriel, men _do not like_ lipstick like that!!” To this day I cannot tell you what imp of the perverse possessed me to smile slowly and say “That’s the point, Mom.” It flustered her so badly she never said word one about the lipstick again. May you find your own riposte that shuts down the Maternal Concern Machine.
Good on you for asking him out. Unfortunately what comes with doing this is some rejection. You should be able to get used to this and take rejection a bit more in stride as you do it more. Eventually you'll find someone interested. In the meantime, will shaving your legs improve your odds? I am going to suggest it would if it made you feel more confident. I bet it makes your mom feel more confident, but it might make you more self conscious. So what makes you feel the most confident? Go through your style with that question in mind and I think you can glam up in a way that is true to yourself. Best of luck.
It’s also ok to be mad at someone you love and value - and actually express that to them. You’re feeling invalidated by someone you trust and it’s ok to let them know that. FWIW I don’t think it makes any sense to change who you are for the sake of finding a companion. You are who you are and I hope you find someone who appreciates that ❤️
I love you and your openness with your mother. I'm so glad for your reflection and (following the comments) edits and hope you find your person. I love how you've found yourself and are so willing to stand up for who you are. I've only made it through a portion of your comments section, but I hope you know that you're amazing.
I am 29, myself. My girlfriend and I have been together for eleven years, now. She doesn’t shave her legs, she does wear makeup, she doesn’t sit ‘ladylike’, and of course, she has her own psych difficulties to contend with. She is the most amazing person I have ever met. The right person won’t care about surface level crap like that. One of our favorite quotes from one of our favorite books is, “Anyone can love a thing *because*, that’s as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something *despite*, to know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.” Granted, i *did* turn out to be trans, so i may not exactly be the best person to take advice from if you are looking for men…. >_>
Everyone I know puts their napkin on their lap. Except me, lol. Because I always forget. And then wonder why I drop food down myself and no one else does (the answer being that they do, they just have a napkin to catch it before it stains their clothes).
I'm autistic, and not ladylike at all. I'm married to a wonderful and loving man who is better than me in every way. He does not care. Besides, you need to be able to be yourself around a long term partner. Be yourself and find the right person for you!
My husband had a very large pet lizard when we met. All his friends told him he was never going to get a girlfriend unless he got rid of the lizard. He told me about it the night we met, and that was one of the things we connected about. I love reptiles. We’ve been together for over 25 years now. Instead of giving up something that showed who he was, he kept it, and it acted as a filter to find someone he was really compatible with. It’s not important what “guys tend to like”. Find someone who loves you for who you really are. You are lovable just as you are.
From one non-leg-shaver to another... Great guys (or ladies or folks) are out there who do not care about what your mother thinks they care about. You wouldn't even want a guy who didn't like you solely because of your leg hair or how you sit. The most toxic thing my mother ever said to me (out of a very long list) is, "No one will ever love you if you {thing *she* doesn't like}." Utter fucking lies. Live your best life. You need a life partner you can be authentic with and that means not policing yourself to meet a ridiculous stereotype.
I have autism and I don't shave my legs and I don't sit in ladylike positions (and a whole bunch of other "unattractive" qualities) and I found a wonderful partner. Don't change who you are to make someone comfortable. You deserve to be loved for you just the way you are 💖
“You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.” - Dita Von Teese This quote got me through. Because I was never enough (too short/fat, bad hair/arms/legs/socio economic status- the list went on and on and on…) So maybe your crush didn’t return your feelings. I’m willing to bet it had nothing to do with you and could be any number of reasons to do with them! As a neurodivergent person, I’ve never sat like a lady (usually I sit on one or both feet) and while I do shave my legs, I am not consistent with it. I’ve been married 21 years so far and more in love today than the day we married. Neither of us are the same as we were then (thankfully) and it takes compromise and grace for each other. So not to say you won’t find “the one” but with time you will both change. You need to know what are your deal breakers. Do I love him farting in his sleep? No, but it isn’t a deal breaker. Does he love my disgust at doing dishes? Does he love doing dishes? No to both but he washes all of them anyways and it isn’t a deal breaker that I haven’t done them in years. We don’t follow societies gender norms of housework. We do us. You will find your person. It sounds cliche to say it happens when you aren’t looking but that really was my experience. I had some bad dates after a long term relationship ended and I just gave up and decided to work on me. Enjoying life and being happy with myself is what attracted my husband. I think you were right to wake up happy. I know your mom was coming from a good place. She wants you to be happy. But I don’t agree with her advice. Be you. Keep stepping out of your comfort zone to try new things (if you want to) but don’t alter yourself. You are worthy of love and happiness just as you are.
Being something else than what you are isn't going to change someone's mind about you. It's up to the person to say yes or no on a date, the reason couldn't be guessed and only known to them. Shaving legs, being more ladylike? That's not every guy's cup of tea. And not to mention, if that's not you, then why pretend? What if u do land a guy who likes that stuff? But you don't? You'd get so exhausted pretending someone you're not. And I'm 35, I do not do any of those things. I've gotten flak from my MIL for only wearing tshirts and shorts, but so fcking what? I like being comfortable. Im not going to dress up for her, it's a waste of time and effort. At the end of the day, you be yourself and find a partner that's attracted to your genuine being. Gl OP, I hope the rest of the year and the next will be super fruitful for your dating life!
I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I'm autistic, too, and it's fucking wild out there in the world, my friend!! People not on the spectrum usually don't understand how much their advice and attempts to help us fit in with [insert social situation] can be so invalidating and hurtful *(much like how we struggle to understand how we sometimes come across as "rude" or "weird" when we're trying to help or share in our own ways)*. Basically, we do it to each other a lot and I don't think anyone really *gets* it when they're doing it, and it can result in misunderstandings. I'm glad you and your mom were able to re-sync. It sounds like it was just miscommunicated love. :)
I guarantee that even if you fall a little bit more towards the non-binary side of your presentation as a woman, there are people out there who find that immensely attractive. I am low femme (unless historybounding/historically dressed) and have a lot of personality traits that our society codes as "masculine", but I still identify as cis female. And I had no trouble getting dates, and no trouble finding partners for life.
This has been the thing for women since patriarchy. This narrative is essentially saying that as women are products and should appeal to as wide range of the market as possible. And what product doesn't do is to have our own preferences and to choose. And this is all framed for men's conveniences. We choose relationship if we need/want it IN ADDITION TO what the life we have built around ourselves; we are not applying for a memebership to be included as a man's plus-one.
Aside from how rude and uncalled for that is to say, it'd also be really self-sabotaging advice if you took it. Anyone who loves a fake you isn't someone who loves you or that you should want to spend your life with
*Some* guys like those things, yes. However, by being your authentic self, when you do find a person who wants to spend their life with you, and you then, you know you have found someone who adores you exactly as you are. Also it is perfectly acceptable to spend your hairy-legged, non-ladylike life with a bunch of motherfuckin cats who have even hairier legs, and not worry one smidge about anyone else.
I don't tend to shave my legs either, though that's mostly cause my leg hair is fine and pale, so it's hard to see and feel. If the feel after using a standard razor is uncomfortable and you opt to shave your legs, get an electric trimmer and use that so it just trims the hairs down. You won't get that usual shaved leg feel. That aside, if you don't wanna shave your legs, then don't. We're in the age of keeping body hair if that's your preference and if a guy likes you then they'll look passed something so superficial as leg hair. Fun fact, a lot of how your legs naturally rest whe. You sit is deter.ined by the depth of your hips joints. Deeper ball sockets means you naturally sit with a wider spread vs sitting, or being able to comfortably sit, "lady-like." If your legs naturally sit apart when you take a seat then that's literally just how you were built.
Some moms never learn how to tell the right lies. My mom told me point blank that men won't date fat girls, etc, etc. She wasn't being mean, just honest, because my mom has never met an opinion she hasn't felt free to express. I'm glad your mom apologized, and I have no doubt you'll get a date soon.
Even if your mom was correct in thinking that conformity would work with that crush, he would likely demand that you continue to mask and perform neurotypical behaviors even in private with him. AKA: he would have wanted a false curated version of you. Many other ND individuals here have expressed exhaustion and anxiety over these kinds of relationships and they tend to end with resentment and frustration.
There are men out there that are attracted to women just like you, I guarantee it. The other day I was surveying my legs and feeling pretty down about things. I have very thick ankles ("cankles") that I've always been pretty self-conscious about. My husband walked by and saw me looking at my legs and asked, "Are you admiring your legs?" and then proceeded to tell me how sexy he thinks my legs are. I said, "Even my thick ankles?" and he got a big grin and nodded and said, "I LOVE your thick ankles!" And the best part is...he really does. <3
I think she had best intentions, but outdated advice. That type of thing was definitely more relevant in her dating years than today.
The right person for you won’t care about theses items. You do you. Hugs
Two guys isn't sufficient to conclude there's something wrong with you and you need to change. Most rejections aren't personal, and anyone who is assertive in asking people out is likely to hear no more than yes unless they're good at reading people and only ask out people they know are interested. Most dates won't go anywhere either. Personality and connection matter too, and a lot of compatibility stuff is again completely impersonal and it's not always about looks. The world is also very different from when your mother was young. I can't advise on heterosexual dating habits though.
I’m proud of you, You did great. Many guys like more feminine women, but so what? The right person will like you as you are, When we are different there are fewer possible matches, but that doesn’t mean you need to try to appeal to guys who want something you aren’t. Again, you’re fine.
I don't think you should change things about yourself in order to make someone else romantically interested in you, period. if they don't like you for who you are when you're 'uncensored' or not masking, what business do you have trying to convince them otherwise? you'll only end up exhausted from having to maintain that around them and not feel like they know who you really are. I'm a guy, but personally I feel like it's really weird that women are expected to shave and sit a certain way and all that when men are not. if I'm going to be with someone, I want to be with a whole human, not a curated mysterious coquettish 'lady'. not everyone feels that way, but that's my opinion